matthews, host of hardball. chris, let me first get your reaction to the death of this great world leader. well, reverend, i was so fortunate historically to be there in 1994 covering his election. the first democratic election in south africa that was brought about because of the anti-apartheid act put forth by good people. and that s one of the reasons they had democracy in south africa. i was very fortunate to be there and watch really something almost biblical where you can see people in an open field from one horizon literally to another horizon waiting in line to vote. these are many poor people without they didn t have a cup of coffee or anything or place to go to the bathroom. they just waited patiently, because that man we re looking at right now told them democracy was the way to go. not a military overthrow or something like that with a lot of killing and blood shed. you know, i was in the peace core back in the 60s. a lot of us thought it was going
people out there were saying they liked it the way it was, basically. who thought we could get there and try to make at least within a terrible system some basic rules. that made it less egregious. you know that was going on. so there was a lot of people trying to a liberal white south african didn t believe in sanctions. there was a lot of conflict about how it was the best. my personal view was grind it into the dust, there ll just be another basket case. we don t need that economically. but hit them hard with sanctions with a real punch so they ll be shock hadded by it and make a big historic decision. and they said this isn t going to last. we re going to turn it over to a black majority. we better get used to it fast. i think he deserved credit for that. president barack obama released came out and made a statement today at the white house. saying that his first political
there s been criticism about the approach that nelson mandela took, at the same time, i think he s credited with helping to avoid blood shed and a civil war by bringing in the people who were his very oppressors. and, you know, you can debate whether or not he gave away too much. but the point is that even though south africa today still has a long way to go to be the dream that mandela had for the country, there is very little blood shed of the kind that many thought would happen once a black majority came to power. now, there was and this is not often discussed but there was those to the left of him and those more nationalist than him that were constantly ataking him and constantly pushing him for more saying he gave away too much. how did he deal with that balance? you talked about de clerk. how did he deal with the attacks from some of whom should have
and the thing i remember is how comfortable it was to be around him. he was somebody who did not seem to be what he was. he made his own bed every day. there were stories about him going to luxury hotels and housekeepers saying why did you make up your own bed. this is what he picked up in prison. he was a disciplined man. he was a purposeful man. people talk about in prison he was up every morning reading. he was about something and he told all the prisoners who came there, you have to be about something. you have to leave here a better person than you came in. and there was no doubt that they were leaving and that they were going to make a mark when they left. ron, stay with us. much more when we come back.
ballot. for this to happen, such a profound thing. i m not sure people understand that. because it s been awhile. we re coming up on the 20th anniversary in april of this moment. people are reflecting how far it s come. but it s important to know where it came from and where nelson mandela brought it from. in the pantheon of historical figures, where would mandela he has a unique position. it s just impossible to compare him to other people. because what he did with the help of others was so singular, so unique. and the way he did it the strength, the passion, the forgiveness, all those things. i had the pleasure of meeting him briefly during the campaign in the early 90s.