rome and dealing with people in poverty and getting out there and doing it and rubbing off the rough edges. when you see him, you ll say this is the first time he s really gotten that heart out there. he s kind of a distant fella, the president. he really showed some heart. howard fineman was there and he said afterwards, it was the first time he ever saw any president talk about personally what it s like to be president. in other words, taking the hits and the bats every day. it was kind of an interesting development when he turned to and maybe because he s into trouble with the polls right now, he s starting to feel very as i said about nelson mandela, a bit soulful about the situation he s in. he has to really fight for principle now. it s not going to be simple politics. do you get a sense that he is being combative or reflective? i mean, he s under a lot of attacks, a lot of pressure. did you leave with a sense of where his political gut is. you know him. he s not ferocious.
against apartheid. i saw will smith in one of those pictures and harry bellefonte. there were enough of us and the people that were activists to give our country a good name in that country. we were lucky to make the change in the 80s. thanks again to the late bill grey. they took the lead. no doubt about it. ron delums, randall robinson. but i think people don t understand there were elements in this country that actually as late as the mid-80s was still calling nelson mandela and the anc terrorists. i know. yet he came out with a very forgiving spirit and rose above all of that. i think there s a lot of great leaders in south africa. we ve lost some of them, of course. there s a lot of people down there that i d love to see get back into government and really develop a really strong democratic tradition there. but you re right. there were people that, you know, pat buchanan and other
well, what will be his legacy, ambassador? his legacy will be the same as the celebration we celebrate now at christmas. peace on earth and good will to all men, women, and children. and he signified that, he exemplified it in his life. he broke down racial and class barriers. he insisted on the highest values of human kind being shared with all of god s children. and he gave his life for it. you know, there were a lot of people from there was a big group from atlanta that. there were about 40 people who went there. i don t know whether you remember james orange yes, very well. james took a delegation of
to eventually lead to that, a big race war, everybody getting killed. it was just a horrendous situation. and the deal he was able to strike with the clerk, they did it all quite normally and naturally and democratically. and he did that. he sold the people. who could have overrun the whites, i suppose, at one point on doing it democratically. he really was a soulful, great leader. you know what was amazing to me, i was also in south africa in 94. you there as a journalist, i was there as an activist who was an election observer. sure. and what was amazing to me is how nelson mandela in the anc was actually attacked by some of the forces on the left that wanted to be violent, and he refused to do it. he really taught many of us around the world that you had to become the change you sought. and he was able to pull it off.
johannesbu johannesburg. give people a sense. i understand the greatness of nelson mandela. you have to understand that moment. the african the black african had never been able to vote before in south africa. right. give us a sense of what it was like in durbin in the non-city areas. right. this was a very rural area and we were beyond the city. and there were polling places that were essentially huts. and it was a very misty, foggy morning. and i can remember seeing these huts and these lines that stretched for literally for miles. and people stood there for hours and hours to exercise this right. and though i often tell people out of all the things i ve seen in my life traveling the world for many, many years now, this moment is something that i that always stays with me. it was just a powerful moment. it was just something that growing up and learning about south africa, you probably never would have thought would have happened. so many people were amazed that