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okay. so you have an industry that sort of fundamentally, you know, has a bit of an issue there in trying to work out what its purpose actually is. reporter: you re quite cynical about it, around you? well, it s a business. it s a huge business. it s certainly a billion-dollar business. where armies of consultants, every conceivable donor agency, that s a big organization and a fragmented one. reporter: do you think it s helped? has it alleviated poverty? that s thing with question, isn t it? all that money, all that focus, that is done any good. has it eliminated the need for poverty, clearly hasn t. reporter: this is not a had you debate. where aid is dead. when it comes down to it, what are the solutions saying, listen, it s not working.