so good to have you both start of the 9:00 hour,. barbed start off with you. yesterday, joyce and i walk through the removal process. we have an evidentiary hearing august 28th in front of a federal judge. during that evidentiary hearing, this judge will determine whether not mark meadows can have his case removed as a state from federal court versus state court. barbara, my question to you is this. mark meadows was a white house chief of staff. donald trump was the president of the united states at the time. what but people like rudy giuliani? we have heard he wants to invoke this concept of removal from federal court because he was, quote, acting at the direction of a federal official at the time of the conduct. i do not expect them to have any luck, katie. those who were federal officials at the time of the conduct have, at least, in arguable claim. i don t think it will be a successful claim. those who were not, quote, federal officials that is a term meaning that you had a cer
let s walk through some of the logistics, as well. my understanding, correct me if i m wrong, fani willis and her team could be designated as special prosecutors in federal court if these cases with some of the defendants removed. in addition, do we have any ideas about the potential jury pool and from where that would be polled if this cases removed to federal court for mark meadows? that is the benefit if he is, ultimately, successful in getting this case removed. the northern district of georgia, depending on how this works out he either get jurors from a ten county swath around the city of atlanta. that it s urban and suburban areas that may be a little more conservative were fulton county where 72% of voters voted for joe biden in 2020. it is also possible, if this case gets removed, it goes to the entire 46 county area in the northern district of georgia.
curious to see what justice to jones says on that hearing with mark meadows. let s stick with rudy giuliani, rudy rudy as he is called sometime. rudy is an unindicted coconspirator and jack smith s federal interference case up in d.c.. he is now an indicted codefendant in the state of georgia. how does that work? is there any way for him, rudy giuliani, to be a witness against donald trump in d.c.? be a codefendant of donald trump in georgia? i would think, katie, any defense attorney worth his or her saw would want to have some sort of resolution on how he was going to testify. even though he is not charged in the d.c. case, the federal case, i think he would invoke his fifth amendment right against self incrimination there because any testimony he gives there could be used against him in georgia. i think he will either be silent in both or he will agree to testify in both. i don t think he will choose one of the other. there is just too much legal peril in the other forum.
this indictment has 161 acts as alleged, complaints from people like mark meadows that me setting up a phone call or me organizing a meeting, in and of itself, is not criminal conduct. what s your response to the idea that those 161 acts, over acts put forth in the indictment, may look innocent on facebook actually could be used as predicate acts for purposes of rico all the time, there are a based charges, in this case, we have the georgia rico, where there are acts which are otherwise themselves in isolation, perfectly lawful. important context of a criminal enterprise or a criminal conspiracy agreement, it makes them more suspect, or i should say, it makes them subject to being a point, a data point for prosecutors about the conspiracy of not just being something that folks are joking about or something that folks really don t mean when they re
of america. none of the codefendants had that. i think for them this argument is a nonstarter what happens of someone like mark meadows goes to federal court, doesn t successfully get his case dismissed? do the other defendants stay in state court? what are the logistics of that? that is a good question, katie. warren we are still trying to figure out. these cases are somewhat unusual. we have heard recently in fulton county that those law enforcement officials who killed folks in the line of duty were able to get their case removed to federal court. this is a much different circumstance. obviously, a very novel one involving the former president of the united states. we are trying to figure out of someone like trump or mark meadows is successful. does that mean that their portion of the case moved to set a record? or does the entire case move there d.a. willis has mentioned she wants to try all 19 defendants gather that is an open question to see whether she will succeed i will