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from where it is. you have to grow the economy and then you have to deal with the longer term debt picture, which is nearly 100% of the economy now, before you get on with the other priorities like the nhs waiting lists and the small boats. there are lots of things to do. but it s not just there are lots of things to do. but it s notjust liz truss there are lots of things to do. but it s not just liz truss and jake it s notjust liz truss and jake berry in the studio, but even the imf, the international monetary fund, has pointed to the high tax burden in this country as being one of the problems this country faces and one of the problem is that they cite as a drag on growth. and when you hearfrom business groups cite as a drag on growth. and when you hear from business groups or from kate bingham, a distinguished figure in the city, they say you would need a microscope to find a plan from this government to get the economy going. t plan from this government to get the economy going-
but the high level of debt means that it makes the debt picture very sensitive to the relation between economic growth and interest rates. so, if interest rates go up, it makes the debt picture worse. if the growth picture is disappointed, it makes the outlook worse. so a decade ago in the uk under 0sborne, the uk adopted the wrong approach. then, with the economy weak, the treasury said the public finances are in bad shape, therefore you need austerity. i was critical of austerity at the time, as indeed was borisjohnson, shall we say. in the last couple of years, the approach has been in economic terms similar, but the politics very different. the last couple of years, the treasury has basically said growth is very weak, public finances therefore are not in good shape. to get the finances back into shape, you need higher taxes, which is what rishi sunak was advocating. now, the imf, earlier this year, rightly, in my view, criticised the uk as being the only g7 country planning to rais
so the point is that it s not a unique problem for the uk, but the high level of debt means that it makes the debt picture very sensitive to the relation between economic growth and interest rates. so, if interest rates go up, it makes the debt picture worse. if the growth picture is disappointed, it makes the outlook worse. so a decade ago in the uk under osborne, the uk adopted the wrong approach. then, with the economy weak, the treasury said the public finances are in bad shape, therefore you need austerity. i was critical of austerity at the time, as indeed was borisjohnson, shall we say. in the last couple of years, the approach has been in economic terms similar, but the politics very different. the last couple of years, the treasury has basically said growth is very weak, public finances therefore are not in good shape. to get the finances back into shape, you need higher taxes, which is what rishi sunak was advocating. now, the imf, earlier this year, rightly, in my view, crit
that concerned overall about our debt picture. gillian: do you think this will get passed? if so, when? does it happen before august recess? yeah, i think it probably does end up getting passed. you know, we will find a lot more when we see the actual details of the bill. i suspect you can t always say that the senators who voted to move the debate forward will ultimately end up voting for the bill, but it s often a pretty good guide of where people will end up. so i would expect that we will see it pass. it seems likely to pass the house as well. gillian: let s talk about the 3.5 trillion dollars budget measure that has no republican support. nancy pelosi and president biden believe immigration reform should be included reconciliation. pelosi saying they have a very good cause for this. the president saying something similar a day prior to that. do they? yeah, i m not sure. we will have to learn a lot more about what their argument looks like. what reconciliation means in effe