to meet with putin, we ll see what comes of that as defense secretary lloyd austin is travelling to meet with leaders in belgium. todd and carley. carley: thank you. mr. marco rubio says he is worried could unleash cyber attacks against its neighbor, as well. invasion of ukraine would be deeply problematic, returning to world in which powerful countries can just take over their neighbors. that is the claim russia makes about europe and what china is making about asia, and the notion of cyber war fare. if putin launches it, we have never had a cyber war, we don t know how quickly that escalates. a lot to worry about escalating beyond ukraine. carley: security experts believe russia may have hacked ukraine s power grid during the conflict that started in 2014. todd: no surprise there. exclusive report, john durham s
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effective here. but the city of kyiv, i don t think they re going to be able to take that city. they can get there, but it is the size of chicago, with 4 million people, and i don t think that they will ever be able to subjugate it, or western ukraine itself. and as american weapons start to flow in, other people start giving them assistance and they start building their own i.e.d factories, it will be a nightmare for the russians. they just are not going to be able to take and hold this place. and they are going tough to kill a lot of people. and apparently, they have made the choice that they are going to. there is not a single analysts who does not think this is going to be very bloody. both gentlemen are going to stay with us, we have a lot more to talk about, not just the war on the ground, but what to watch for if and when nato and other global allies are suddenly targets of cyber war fare, in an unconventional war. when the 11th hour continues.
trading until further notice. crude oil surging to $100 per barrel for the first time since 2014. todd: some fear this could trigger larger escalation. carley: jim hanson, veteran, joins us now. one major concern at home is that this russia conflict with ukraine could spill over in the terms of cyber war fare in the united states. if that happens, what does it look like? well, that is just the problem, we ve been whistling past the graveyard on cyber security for a long time, no one wants to try something against us. we thought no one would roll tanks through europe again during modern times. putin is now because he has no fear of deterrence from the biden administration or repercussions
defend ukraine by counteracting the cyber attacks against ukraine? i think there s a space to help ukraine in terms of their cyber defense. also i think all is a good argument to be made that if we einvolve ourselves in cyber war fare, it s something ongoing for a while. especially for many of us that have done a lot of work in the intel community, we know russia has been quite an aggressor and will continue to be an aggressor. it s time for russia and putin to pay the price. they re not that strong of a country. they think they re bigger than they are and they ve really gotten to the point where the reason they re acting this way is they ve been acting without consequences. we need show them there are consequences to their actions and push them back to the place where they belong and that s not ukraine and eastern europe. how concerned are you that russia has the prop advantage, if you will, of being