Chris Matthews debates hot political issues with politicians, newsmakers and Washington leaders. Comes from giuliani, who attempted to downplay the criminal aspect of collusion with the russians. Rather than deny that collusion took place, he now today argued that collusion isnt illegal. Lets watch. Ive been sitting here looking in the federal code trying to find collusion as a crime. Its not. Collusion is not a crime. I dont even know if thats a crime, colluding about russians. You start analyzing the crime. The hacking is the crime. The hacking that certainly is the original the president didnt hack. Of course not. Thats he didnt pay them for hacking. Its so much fun. An apparent shift in strategy. Giuliani now appears to be saying that collusion is not so bad after all. You saw him there chuckling about it. And also 150e78d to undermined the credibility, however, of President Trumps frequent and categorical denials that there was no collusion. Which has been a familiar refrain from
Alex Witt hosts coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories. Alex Witt hosts coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories. Don jr. And it goes on to say this was a meeting to get information on an opponent, totally legal and done all the time in politics. It is done frequently in politics when everyone involved is an american citizen. It is much more treacherous if there are any foreign nationals who are part of a meeting like that because there are violations of the law if foreign nationals contribute anything of value to a campaign. Money, information, anything of value. So thats where it gets a bit tricky. Now, one of the issues, we know, is that donald trump jr. , through his testimony and the emails that he released, did acknowledge that it was a meeting to get information, dirt as it was described on Hillary Clinton. We also know that another attendee of that meeting, jared kushner, who is the president s soninlaw and senior
of course. but never mind the man behind the curtain, it s really not a big deal. it s not illegal, it s not collusion, if collusion actually exists. so it s striking that this weekend their whole defense is the idea that, oh, well, yes, they did have this meeting in russia russia, but collusion isn t illegal. that s their new sort of arg . argume argument. next week their argument will be, this might have happened but it s not a big deal and it will be fine. as we look at this back and forth, one of the questions has been here, betsy, what is the mood in the white house, and a vanity fair article had put some ideas behind that, that the president is going back to his old favorites, steve bannon as well as hope hicks. and there was this formation, this idea that based on his discomfort, his stress right now, that he might be going back to get some ideas of what s happening. so one has to take a step back and go, as we move into the
comes from giuliani, who attempted to downplay the criminal aspect of collusion with the russians. rather than deny that collusion took place, he now today argued that collusion isn t illegal. let s watch. i ve been sitting here looking in the federal code trying to find collusion as a crime. it s not. collusion is not a crime. i don t even know if that s a crime, colluding about russians. you start analyzing the crime. the hacking is the crime. the hacking that certainly is the original the president didn t hack. of course not. that s he didn t pay them for hacking. it s so much fun. an apparent shift in strategy. giuliani now appears to be saying that collusion is not so bad after all. you saw him there chuckling about it. and also 150e78d to undermined the credibility, however, of president trump s frequent and categorical denials that there was no collusion. which has been a familiar refrain from this president. let s watch him. let s put it this way. ther
no collusion, no collusion, no collusion. i think the message is going to change. i talked to former prosecutors and former justice department officials who agree because collusion isn t illegal, the message will change to call it whatever you want, we colluded, we agreed, we were kindred spirits. it s not illegal. find a crime. do you think that s what nunberg might have been channeling? perhaps. whether there s any validity to what nunberg said or not, this president is behaving like a guilty man. and the reason why is this. look at what happened last week with the reporting around where the investigation s gone with jared kushner. and financial leverage and financial exposure to other nation states or significant businesspeople and other nation states. that is the exact image of what bob mueller s investigating with donald trump. there is no scenario in this investigation where bob mueller is not investigating donald trump s personal and business dealings overseas. right. why