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Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240604 04:36:00

looking into what they could use possibly. that was an advisory mission then and it became very clear to me. i spent day and night practically reading cables in the embassy office and talking to advisers. made it very clear. this was a loser. this was not the place to plant the imperialflag. i didn t use the word imperial in those days. so it was actually being in vietnam that changed your mind? from vietnam, i came back and said to the rand corporation, which i was working on, i was a consultant for defence. stay away from this. there will be no. there will be nothing to gain from being associated with this war. when i went into the pentagon, i was asked in, as a full employee in 1964, i was asked to work on vietnam only exclusively for my boss, the assistant secretary of defense. but it was very clear then in 6a, the place was falling apart. the government, our puppet government, was falling like dominoes, you might say, in saigon every other day. this was not a war that

Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240604 00:35:00

we should have some research and development on non nuclear. so, i was in vietnam looking into what they could use possibly. that was an advisory mission then and it became very clear to me. i spent day and night practically reading cables in the embassy office and talking to advisers. made it very clear. this was a loser. this was not the place to plant the imperialflag. i didn t use the word imperial in those days. so it was actually being in vietnam that changed your mind? from vietnam, i came back and said to the rand corporation, which i was working on, i was a consultant for defence. stay away from this. there will be no. there will be nothing to gain from being associated with this war. when i went into the pentagon, i was asked in, as a full employee in 1964, i was asked to work on vietnam only exclusively for my boss, the assistant secretary of defense. but it was very clear then in 6a, the place was falling apart. the government, our puppet government, was falling

Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240604 04:40:00

but there s a moral difference between deciding i can no longer be a part of this and a different decision. the decision you took, which was to say, i don t care if these documents are top secret, confidential. i am going to expose them to the public. well, i was in several things came together where my streams of information were unusual to be combined in one person. i d been in vietnam for two years. i d even seen the war close up. that was very unusual for a civilian of my rank. it was almost nobody else. and i had been involved in the escalation, which i had thought at the time was wrong, and my boss thought was a mistake. we shouldn t be doing this. the bombing will not win the war. we re going to kill a lot of people. but we did ourjob for mcnamara. we helped him get the bombing started and carried it on. i d been part of that. i look back on that with amazement, almost. then i was in vietnam, but then i read the pentagon papers. i knew, coming back from vietnam, as every

Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240604 00:39:00

from the beginning. i understand that clearly you felt that was entirely wrong. but there s a moral difference between deciding i can no longer be a part of this and a different decision. the decision you took, which was to say, i don t care if these documents are top secret, confidential. i am going to expose them to the public. well, i was in several things came together where my streams of information were unusual to be combined in one person. i d been in vietnam for two years. i d even seen the war close up. that was very unusual for a civilian of my rank. it was almost nobody else. and i had been involved in the escalation, which i had thought at the time was wrong, and my boss thought was a mistake. we shouldn t be doing this. the bombing will not win the war. we re going to kill a lot of people. but we did ourjob for mcnamara. we helped him get the bombing started and carried it on. i d been part of that. i look back on that with amazement, almost.

Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240604 00:35:00

into nuclear weapons. and kennedy said, no, we should have some research and development on non nuclear. so, i was in vietnam looking into what they could use possibly. that was an advisory mission then and it became very clear to me. i spent day and night practically reading cables in the embassy office and talking to advisers. made it very clear. this was a loser. this was not the place to plant the imperialflag. i didn t use the word imperial in those days. so it was actually being in vietnam that changed your mind? from vietnam, i came back and said to the rand corporation, which i was working on, i was a consultant for defence. stay away from this. there will be no. there will be nothing to gain from being associated with this war. when i went into the pentagon, i was asked in, as a full employee in 1964. i was asked to work on vietnam only exclusively for my boss, the assistant secretary of defense. but it was very clear then in the 64. the place was falling apart.

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