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democratic side working these kinds of things. we ll get her reaction to what michael avenatti had to say tonight. but let s just remember something i think the republicans are pretending is not true. i mean orrin hatch has been say, gee, the democrats are good at bringing this into the confirmation process. no, they re not. it is extremely rare. and let s give neil gorsuch some credit. he went to exactly the same high school which kavanaugh went to, which is reportedly drowning in beer and wild parties according to kavanaugh s best friend, mark judge s book. neil gorsuch went to that high school. no one came out no one came out and said anything like this about neil gorsuch. so, no, this doesn t happen every time. and also the idea there s these generic allegations that democrats keep on tap to fling at anybody who comes along who they want taderail and they have
that the things he s predicted to come true have generally come true, and things he s proven to be facts have generally come out. it was a ridiculous previously that mark judge was not being subpoenaed before avenatti s e-mail to the committee. the fact that mark judge is not being subpoenaed now if he s not now going forward is a travesty. this a person who strangely i had some acquaintance with when i moved to washington, d.c. where he was a frequenter at a bar in georgetown, and he was everything you can imagine him to be in the book. and he was someone who must be subpoenaed to appear before this committee. if there s any pretense or the faintest whiff of a pretense of the truth around brett kavanaugh and the allegations that cloud his nomination.
john, let me ask you quickly i know you spent some time with susan collins. i saw it on your show the circus sunday night. this story has been moving so fast, and what i heard her tell you was that she was as close to a decision on the vote, but that was clearly before anything that we re talking tonight. it was on friday night. she did an event in new hampshire where we caught up with her. that interview took place around 7:00 or so on friday night. so all of the kavanaugh and professor ford related stuff that had happened last week was all known to her. what was not known to her was the reporting by new yorker and michael avenatti allegations from the weekend. i will say to me the most telling thing about it was her flat out declaration, something she d not done before i don t believe anywhere, that she was certain that brett kavanaugh would not overturn roe v. wade. and we understand that was one
no connection to reality, i mean it s, a, you re right it doesn t account for the gorsuch factor here. but also as these allegations continue to mount, if they re so, so sure there s absolutely nothing here, refusing to allow the allegations to be investigated is not the way to disprove them. it can only be that you refuse to have an fbi investigation because the fbi investigation can only make this worse, can t make it better for brett kavanaugh. rachel, thank you for a great hour and starting us off tonight. and we re going to begin right now with lisa graves, the former chief counsel for nominations on the senate judiciary committee and also was a deputy attorney general in the department of justice. jill wine banks, msnbc legal contributor and john heilemann, national affairs analyst for nbc news and co-host and executive producer of show times the