east africa and operatives affiliated with shabaab. but basically the overall premise for the obama administration is don t get too deeply involved in the somalia war, outsource it to other countries. outsource it to kenya, to uganda, to other east african countries who have more of a vested interest. so certainly the attack on the westgate mall is going to raise concerns about the capabilities that shabaab has, but i still think that this debate will continue about whether this means more direct u.s. involvement. as you pointed out, the kenyans are eager to get the united states and western countries very actively involved in east africa, but there is a wing of the obama administration that is very concerned about just what exactly are the american interests here, and is u.s. national security at stake with this group. and that s certainly a debate we have over involvement in a number of countries in the, quote, war on terror. but i wonder what you think
about the recruitment piece here and the fact that we are hearing reports that some of these terrorists may have been americans recruited by al shabaab. that certainly has to inform the calculus here, if not change it. the fact that al shabaab has its tentacles are long enough to reach and recruit fighters from the united states, from the heartland potentially, over to somalia. yeah, although it hasn t been confirmed by the u.s. it wouldn t be surprising if there were americans involved. shabaab has been recruiting americans to somalia for a number of years, primarily a group from minnesota, somali americans from minnesota. and it s this group that has been in some circles kind of left for dead. as they got pushed out of parts of somalia, but as with these groups, they re not very good at governing but pretty good at carrying out terrorist attacks. so they may not be in charge in somalia, but they can still do attacks like this. they can still do attacks inside kenya, where they ha
90-year-old woman jump on top of an armed al-shabaab terrorist. if you can neutralize the weapon and on top of it, the fight will give you much higher chance of surviving a terror attack, if you can. i mean if you are able, in any way to neutralize the attack you re saying and if you feel that you re already being, you re in a confrontation, right? i mean if you re seeing that you are correct, correct. martha: otherwise you re saying get out, find a way out because a lot of times we know, even from september 11th people were advised to stay in the bidding. do you listen to that advice when you hear it? if you see there is a door you can get out of? no, no, i don t. i think it is important to understand what the fight or flight reaction will be. realistically the training, the consulting with corporations for these types of a situation need to be very realistic. people will head to a doorway. that is where they will run. law enforcement has to train to run inside of that doorway