Terror threats. We plan for the ability to handle two dozen sites simultaneously. So what can we expect Going Forward . Take, for example, this weeks thanksgiving day parade. We ask our security consultant, former nypd detective and counterterrorism expert nick casale. And good morning, everyone. Im bill ritter in diana williams. The humanitarian crisis affecting millions of syrians has, like so much of our political discourse these days, turned into something about vitriolic discussion. This morning we search for calm and rational thinking. We start off with republican congressman peter king, a member of the Homeland Security committee and chairman of the subcommittee on counterterrorism. Mr. King is in his office in Massapequa Park on long island. Congressman, good morning. Thank you for joining us. Bill, thank you very much. I should say were taping this on friday, so there might be some new developments, but we hope that it will be generic enough but specific enough so that it doesnt outweigh the news of the day. Let me just start with this last weekend, the attacks on paris and the sort of regurgitated scare, security scare, by isis, using in a video pictures of new york. Anything that you know in your perch as an intelligence expert and on the committee that we should be aware of about isis and possible attacks on new york city . Bill, as far as new york city is concerned, as far as i know, and ive been talking to people at all levels of the intelligence community, there are no Credible Threats against new york city right now. I believe commissioner bratton has continually said the same thing, as has the director of the fbi, james comey. There are no Credible Threats against new york city. We do know that isis and alqaeda always have new york in their sights, but the nypd is the best in the world. They work closely with the fbi. They were involved with the joint Terrorism Task force. They have their own agents overseas. So they get firsthand intelligence, and theyre as ready as anyone can be. We have to be on our guard. As far as the videos that are being put out, i think theyre being done for two reasons. People, keep this climate of fear thats there, but also they are appealing to the lone wolves, the people on the fringes of society, and theyre attack. These would not be the large attacks, but they could be deadly. Last year we saw the person who was inspired by isis attacking two Police Officers with a hatchet in jamaica, queens. Thats the type of attack we have to be looking for, the person who is putting a bomb together in his basement or in his attic. So, not the largescale attacks, coordinated attacks like we saw in paris, but the lonewolf attacks which can be damaging obviously to anyone whos affected by it, but not the largescale attack like paris. It seems at least some of this, congressman, is designed to, you know, insert fear and alter our behavior somehow, whether its one friend of mine isnt gonna take her family to the thanksgiving day parade this coming week because shes scared. A School District in your district in Nassau County isnt gonna have any more field trips in manhattan in november and december because theyre worried, they dont want to put their children and the school kids at risk. Are we yielding to the terrorists when that happens, or are we altering our behavior in a way thats based on fear and not evidence . Yeah, i think right now we should continue here in new york to go on with our lives. We have the best police department. I cant emphasize enough how much bill bratton and the men and women of the nypd they work 24 7. They have more Police Officers assigned to combating terrorism, and not just reacting to it, but anticipating it, anticipating what might happen, what could possibly happen. Theyre there, and this is as safe as any city can be, and we cant allow the terrorists to make us hide and cower. We have to be out there. And again, im not calling for people to put themselves at risk. Im just saying that new york is as safe as it can be, and we live in the world, but again, unless you want to spend the rest of your life in your basement, you should go out, enjoy the city, do what the the fbi asks you to do, and life will be good. There is some talk among some politicians and especially some conservatives that we should be monitoring, again, the nypd should step up its monitoring of mosques in our area, including long island, new jersey, and new york city. The nypd used to do a lot more of that. They do less of it now. Whats your position on that . I believe we should monitor wherever we have to. And i dont think mosques should be off limits. We do know that, in the past, a number of terrorist threats have originated in mosques, and we have to follow the threats. And if theyre coming from a mosque, then we have to use surveillance. To me, one of the ways you anticipate an attack and be ready for it is to have people in the community, people who are willing to inform, if you will, people who are willing to say whats happening in that community, and that has worked in the past, and i think its essential. I see nothing wrong with it. Ive always used the example when the fbi was going after organized crime and the mafia, they went into the italian communities, the italian social clubs. When they were going after the westies, an irish gang, they were in all the irish bars in the west side of manhattan. They were in irish clubs, irish organizations to find out what the westies might be doing and who they were. So no, i think this is legitimate police work and we should not be giving in to political correctness. Well, still the nypd does not think so. They dont do it anymore, at least not in new york city, but there are some other Police Officers and Police Departments across the country that do do a little bit of that, and youre calling for more of that. Lets talk about some of the controversy that certainly this last week showed up in the house in a big vote, something of a defeat for president obama. You voted in the bill that would crack down on bringing refugees from muslim countries, specifically the syrian refugee crisis. What was your rationale behind your vote for passing that . Well, this applied to syria and iraq, and my real concern is with syria because we have no way of adequately vetting whos coming into the country. There are no databases, there are no personnel records, there have no intelligence on the ground to know who is who in syria. Theres no way of knowing when a person is being questioned who they are, where theyre from, what their motives are, what their connections are. This is different from other countries, and we do know that isis does want to smuggle terrorists into the countries as part of the refugee movement. So, to me, what this bill, which i thought was a very moderate bill, and 47 democrats i believe supported it, including two from long island, they supported it because what it does is says pause until we get a better system in place. The fbi director has said that they cant assure us that its effective, that were actually able to spot terrorists. The Homeland Security secretary has said the same. The white insists the vetting process, you know, while it always can improve, is adequate and will protect this country against terrorists trying to get in. I strongly disagree with the president. I strongly disagree with the white house. Ive been getting briefings now for the last three months with people involved in them. That the vettings not adequate because there was nothing they could base it against. There are absolutely no theres no database, there are no records, there are no personnel files, theres nothing to know who these people are. And yet weve taken in less than 2,000. Germany has almost 100,000 in the last three years of syrian refugees. Theres clearly a humanitarian crisis going on. You know, you come from immigrants, from ireland, on both sides of your family. Thats got to touch you to some degree when you see these refugees in need of aid from around the world. It is. Its a terrible humanitarian crisis. But my main obligation is to protect the people of the united states, and i wouldnt want to have it turn out one of those refugees that come in from syria is involved in setting off a bomb in the new york city subway station or the long island railroad. And weve already seen like in france, at least one of the eight attackers appears to have been somebody who took advantage of the refugee movement. One of them was, apparently came from syria posing as a refugee. Quick question. Suggesting that the majority of americans want more air strikes against isis in syria and even more Ground Troops. 60 say they favor more Ground Troops. How do you view that, and whats your position on it . I believe, first of all, it shows that its the belief that the current policy is not working. I do believe more bombing is necessary, more effective bombing. We have to have more spotters on the ground, more intelligence on the ground. We have to coordinate more with the french and, you know, the british, also, but especially the french cause theyre now in syria. As far as Ground Troops, yes, we do need Ground Troops, not in large numbers like in the iraq war or the afghanistan war, but i can see up to 10,000 troops being used to gather intelligence, to coordinate with the iraqis and the kurds and also to be able to infiltrate. And also for special operations, have commando units, you know, for quick operations that are needed. Also that would give confidence to the other arab nations there that we are taking it seriously and they then i believe will be much more willing to put their Ground Troops. Thats what it really has to be in the end sunni Ground Troops fighting sunni isis. Okay, republican congressman pete king from long island. Thanks so much, congressman. Bill, thank you. All right, thank you, congressman. We go from the political angles to the Law Enforcement considerations. Joining us now, our security consultant, nick casale, former detective with the nypd and counterterrorism expert. And he used to work in counterterrorism with the mta. Nick, thanks for joining us. Good to be here, bill. When you hear us talk about, you know, invading yet another muslim country, without getting into Foreign Policy questions with you, what, as a security expert, here does that make you feel . Well, any time that we engage in military action we know that are enemies, and the problem is that our enemies are gonna be vast. Its gonna be more than isis. Its gonna be alqaeda, it could be hamas, it could be hezbollah. We have to understand, they all hate us. To what degree, it doesnt really matter. We have to be prepared here to engage and to get our total apparatus down correctly. Nypd commissioner bratton insists you saw him in that really unusual News Conference the other night at 11 00 at night. He insists theyre prepared for all that. Do you think the nypd is prepared . Absolutely. I mean, in listening to the congressman, you brought up a good question about some people showing concerns about coming to the thanksgiving day parade. Let me assure them myself. Come to the parade. This should be our largest parade ever. Everybody should come down. The only reason anybody wouldnt come down would be the weather. It is absolutely safe. Ride the subways, come to the stores, shop, go to Madison Square garden, see a show. New york is safe. And yet you know that there are some people who are worried, understandable, perhaps, for some people, but that sort of gives in to the terrorists. Well, you know, the terrorists want three things. They want to inflict terror on people so that the people raise up against the government and have the government change its Foreign Policy. Also they want to keep their the people and in the media. And theres another component is that by keeping their message out there, weve seen this in the past, whether you call them a lone wolf or an emotionally disturbed person, whatever tag you want to put on them, theyre action. But theyre going to continue in europe against softer targets before here. And i want to bring this up, because you were on our set when we were broadcasting the news and covering the breaking news of whats happening in paris. We saw it at that concert hall. We saw it in mali on friday. The u. N. Security expert there said those terrorists there alqaeda, whatever they were came not to negotiate but to kill hostages. We saw it in paris. They did not come there to negotiate in that concert hall. They took the hostages to kill them. And its not something we want to think about, but if i think about it if all of a sudden someone comes in and youre a victim of that, does that change how you react as a hostage . Well, you know, thats a question thats not only a good question its a question that everybody seems to be coming up to me and asking. What if . Well, what if is very simple. First, if you can flee, run. Before you hide, run. The further you can get away from danger, the better. Second, if you cant get away from danger, you know, try to hide. And, you know, take some sort of not camouflage, but cover, in a security area. But remember this if faced with no to those two questions, its an individual decision. It is. Right . If youre, you know, if somethings gonna happen to you, you know, its you who has to make that decision. We saw that on the united flight in pennsylvania. They took over that plane because they knew they were gonna do something terrible, maybe take it to washington. So, if you can, if it comes you know, we dont make that decision till it happens but why not be brave and try to save some lives . You know, its ironic because when you look at the greatest heroes in wartime, who receive honor, you think that they would be military trained, they would be high office and stuff like that. No, the person who rallies at that call is generally a farmer from texas like audie murphy or alvin york. Its the average person whos the hero. Nick, question no one likes to think about, but thanks for answering it. Appreciate it. Thanks for being with us. Good to be on, bill. Okay. When we come back, were gonna switch topics. The reverend calvin butts from the Abyssinian Baptist Church joins us. We talk to him about the police, about bill de blasio, about the closing of east harlems first big supermarket, and a host of other important issues designed welcome back to upclose. The last time new york city was attacked september 11th one of the men who helped pull us out of that emotional whirlwind is our next guest. Reverend calvin butts of Abyssinian Baptist Church in harlem telling us at that incredible Memorial Service at Yankee Stadium two weeks after the attacks, well get through this together. Calvin butts joins us this morning. I looked at that tape in preparation for this interview, and you were so eloquent. And everyone in that stadium put their hands together and looked at each other and said, well get through it. You could see them mouthing it. Was that planned . Did you write that . Was it an impromptu . Do you remember . It was impromptu. It was a culmination of what i believe and it was, at the moment, how i was feeling, and i had the opportunity to call on a lot of great words of others i was an american, a proud one. Im a new yorker, a proud one. And i was not about to let any terrorist or any terrorist attack sway me from my beliefs or my commitment to my country or my city. Well get through this together. I think your words echoed so profoundly, and we did get through that horrible time together. I wonder how together you think we are now. Well, we are not as together. You know, i have said that across the years since 9 11 that oftentimes when families get together, its at funerals and everybodys sad and everybodys remembering. But then as you go away, you know, you drift further and further apart with not only whats happening in our city and what has happened in recent months and weeks and years, but also whats happening in our world. You see people going to their various camps, separating, and its going to take something once again dramatic and powerful it could be the killings in france here recently. But we are not as together as we should be. You were here listening to congressman king. You heard nick casale talk about all the security and the fear and everything else. How much do you think is real . What do you tell your congregation on sundays about how to react to this news . Well, i tell them to look at the 27th psalm, you know, the terror by night, the arrow that flieth by day, trust in god and deep belief in your own strength. Dont let people who are ugly and terrible sway you. I remember dr. King he faced terrible terror his home bombed, you know, his life threatened, but yet strength and faith and hope push us forward, and, you know, we shall overcome. Lets well, we hope we all do. Thats a good thing. Thats a good phrase and thought to end this part of the conversation. I want to move on to city politics, cause youre, as always, deeply embroiled in that. The last time you were on this show, you wanted to meet with mayor de blasio and said you hadnt yet. Have you met with him yet since hes become mayor . Since i was here, yes, once in gracie mansion. And we put before him then our concerns. They were two. One, we wanted officer Daniel Pantaleo fired because of the killing of eric garner. And two, we wanted to make sure more contracts were let with minority Women Business enterprises. Since that meeting, or at that meeting, he said he was not going to take an employment action against pantaleo, and he said he was still committed to mwbes. Theres a big rally tonight in well, friday night in brooklyn about mbwes. Nothing very small percentage going to minorities and women. And Daniel Pantaleo is still on the taxpayers payroll. Do you think that the mayors in a slightly tough situation trying to assuage and make a detente with the nypd and maybe he might even sympathize with your position and agree with it, but he finds himself somewhat in the middle . Bill, the new York City Police department is a paramilitary force, and the mayor has to determine whether or not hes going to be the commanderinchief. And if he is the commanderinchief, he can take bold action, and he would be surprised, i think, to know the number of new yorkers who are behind him. We all support the police. We cant live in this city without them. Most of them are fine men and women. There are one or two here and there who are deterrent to our safety, who are absolutely not with what it takes to be a Police Officer in this great city, and they should be removed. Has there been any kind of detente in the last year since the garner case, since all the protests around the country, really, and here in new york . Do you think theres been a detente with the community and the police . No. Individually in individual communities, yes. But overall, in terms of what we expect, from our mayor particularly and our police commissioner, that were saying we just its just one officer. Show some good faith. You ran on stop and frisk, and now you seem to have forgotten all about us. Do you think that some of the problems, bureaucratic problems, your organization has had is because of some of the disputes youve had with the mayor . I know youve had some Financial Issues with the city in terms of getting paperwork in on time, withholding money. That seems to be resolved. But any political overtones to that . I would not like to think so, but the vast majority of people in our communities tell me that thats what it is. Because prior to that, we were the premier agency in harlem. We were doing and have commendations from the city, homelessness, childcare, workforce development, department of education, we work with the public schools. And then all of a sudden, even after the city said, look, in. You got to get your audits in, we said fine. We were working on that and appeared before them. But then when we appeared before them the second time with all of our stuff in order, ready to move forward, they said no. Funding for your Going Forward, do you think . Funding for the organizations are Going Forward as we transition those programs to other groups in the community. I want to ask you about pathmark, because you were in the news this last week. Will you stick around for another segment . Absolutely. Okay, thanks. Well continue our conversation with reverend calvin butts when continues right after this. Welcome back to upclose. Were continuing our conversation with reverend calvin butts of the Abyssinian Baptist Church in harlem. You were in the news, reverend butts, this last week about the closing this weekend of pathmark in east harlem, the first supermarket in that community. Your Development Company sold the land last year, i guess, and is closing that. Im sure you didnt want to close it. Why did it get to this situation . First of all, we didnt close it. We sold the land only because we had to pay the lenders. We built the pathmark. We wanted it there. And so when we sold the land, it was only because the lenders were demanding their money, and it was not turning over the kind of money that would allow us to pay the lenders. You could sell ice to eskimos. You couldnt negotiate with them . We couldnt negotiate. We refinanced twice based on the lenders wanting their money, for no other reason. Not because i wanted the money, not because we needed the money. They wouldnt let you refinance . We couldnt refinance. When we finally refinanced once or twice, we got a little high Interest Rates and things like that. Its the way the banks operate. Thats why i say when people make accusations, they have to understand that real estate in new york city, especially in a booming neighborhood because of us like harlem, is a very complicated matter. So we didnt want to sell it, but we had to in order to pay our lenders. Thats number one. How did you feel about it . I hated it. Didnt want to do it. Number two, the city owned 49 of it, so part of the sale, the city is Still Holding 10 million of that sale. East harlem triangle, who was our partner, has half of the money, and we got the other half. And so when pathmark it had nothing to do with the sale. The food emporiums have closed around the city and everything else. Another food supermarket could go there. Doesnt have to be at a big high rise. It doesnt have to be at a big high rise. It can go there. Melissa markviverito said that east harlem group, east harlem triangle, they can pool their 10 million to 12 million together and build a supermarket. We have less than a minute to go. Unfair to ask you this question with less than a minute. I need a quick answer. We have seen racial tensions at universities across the country. University of missouri big time, kean university, this week at columbia someone defaced a sign of the black Journalists Association there. Youre president of old westbury. I dont know if they have any problems there. What do you make of this . And you got about 30 seconds to answer it. Well, were not as together as we think we are, and our college and University President s are to do more to encourage diversity in faculty and in student bodies. And we have to bring we just brought bill moyers and john lewis to our campus at old westbury. You have to bring men like that, women like that to your campus, because then students begin to hear the whole history of what were going through. It changes minds and hearts. Have universities become too interested in getting students jobs and not about opening dialogue . Oh, thats a long question, but the answer is yes. Okay. Calvin butts, as always, a pleasure. Good to see you. Nice to see you. And on that note, thatll do it for this edition of Eyewitness News upclose. If you happened to have missed any of todays programs, you can check it again on our website, abc7ny. Thank you all for watching. Its been a funpacked show, lot of facts, lot of information. Im bill ritter in for diana williams. And on behalf of all of us here at channel 7, enjoy the rest of