Transcripts For MSNBCW Up WSteve Kornacki 20140817

Midnight anyway. Here is what we know happened on the ground in the overnight hours. Just before the curfew took effect, there were hundreds of protesters who were gathered in what was a stead day rain to peacefully protest the Police Shooting of unarmed teenager Michael Brown one week ago saturday. When the midnight deadline arrived, protesters heeded the instructions and headed home. There were other protesters who remained. They marched with their hands up and drove down the street with some people standing on cars chanting things like hands up, dont shoot, no justice, no curfew. Less than an hour into the curfew, Police Including five Armored Vehicles assembled to move in on that crowd. This is the Police Department. You are violating a stateimposed curfew. You must continue to disperse peacefully or you will be subject to arrest and or other actions. The police began firing canisters into the crowd that they initially said were smoke and not teargas. An nbc producer on the scene shooting video near the front line, someone who has been exposed to teargas before says it was, in fact, teargas. A few hours later Law Enforcement admitted that at least some of the canisters were teargas. They first deployed just gas, smoke, we call it smoke. They deployed smoke. Several smoke canisters to assist in moving the crowd backwards. They kept moving forward. At the time the team started moving forward, they continued to deploy smoke. That was captain ron johnson from the Missouri State highway patrol, a ferguson native who has been running the Law Enforcement response on the ground since thursday. He say it is police moved in on the protesters not to disperse the crowd, but to control separate incidents that were unfolding in the area. He added that there were seven arrests overnight. He said a police car was fired upon in the vicinity and one victim was shot, not by Law Enforcement, but amid the clashes in the street. We have a shooting victim thats in Critical Condition that may lose their life. We had a subject standing in the middle of the rode with a handgun. We had a police car shot at tonight, and yes, i think that was the proper response tonight, to maintain officer safety and Public Safety so we dont have more victims, whether that was Law Enforcement or some of other our citizens. Huffington posts ryan riley has been in ferguson all week, he joins us live from there. Can you just take us through what the night was like for you . You were there. You witnessed it, what was your Vantage Point and what you saw overnight. Reporter it was an intense night. Most of the media was confined to this media area they set up for the first time last night which actually was the ferguson market, the parking lot of the ferguson market where the alleged robbery took place and has been the subject of some protests and looting the previous evening. So we essentially and this night as opposed to being on sort of the side physically on the side of the protesters and being amongst the crowd, were essentially separated from the crowd and saw this from the Police Perspective rather than the side of the protesters. And the protesters, the seven arrests, these are people protesting were showing scenes on the screen with people walking with their hands in the air, these are the people that were arrested. Any other arrests youre aware of . Reporter i think those were the main ones that he talked about. Im not sure if im aware of any arrests outside of that. I note that yesterday as compared to some the previous nights, especially earlier on in the night, it was a different crowd. I think the reporters kind of all concluded this was a little bit different. It was much younger crowd. There werent as many adults scattered throughout. There werent as many people necessarily holding i guess everyone responsible. There were a couple of groups trying to maintain order that captain johnson was working closely with. But this was pretty relatively early on where a couple of reporters were commented to that we could essentially become targets, too. Basically if we started pointing our cameras around when things got crazy, was the quote from one of the individuals. If you could describe for us what the scene was like before the curfew was imposed, trying to get the protesters the police trying to get the protesters to disperse and go home, what was that process like . Reporter down where we were located, closer to a lot of the businesses that had been targeted last night that we could see from our Vantage Point, things were getting pretty clear. Theres a group of peacekeepers on the street who were sort of encouraging everyone to go home and the rainy think also was a big crowd deterrent here. It was pouring completely pouring at some points. That was certainly something that kept people that maybe encouraged some people to head home. The area around the qt, the quick trip which had been burnt down earlier this week was where most of the activity was taking place. It was tough for us as the ples to see what was happening down there. Obviously vice was amongst the crowd. We were not allowed november down. We were told we would be subject to arrest at that point. The few reporters made a decision to ignore that, but it was also difficult to find a way even to get down there where a Police Officer wouldnt stop you. So this is before the curfew went into effect, you were tweeting last night, something that really jumped out at me. You said you witnessed one of the most incredible moments ive ever experienced in my career as a journalist. What you were treating about was you watched an encounter between captain johnson and a young man wearing a mask who was shouting something at him. Can you talked about what you witnessed, what was so incredib incredible . This is right after an impromptu sort of press conference with captain johnson where he was saying how he thought the night was going. He thought things were going pretty well and people were going home. After he sort of walked away, an individual walked in, he had a bandana around his face obviously and started yelling. Very aggressive and threatening. Certainly intimidating to a lot of the media who was there. He continued to follow the officer. At one point, a couple of the fellow officers sort of got in front of johnson got between johnson and between this individual to sort of cut him off. It looked like a very tense situation, someone who was accompanying the protester trying to calm him down. He was obviously very riled and heated up. At one point johnson who had been walking away turned over and walked directly to him and had one of the most Amazing Things ive ever seen, the Civil Exchange between this protester. He was very angry about what had happened and how he feels as an africanamerican in this community and this ferguson native, johnson, who basically said he was right on a lot of things and he understood how he felt and talked about the fbi coming in and how important that investigation was and said at one point that investigation is going to lead them right through missouri all the way to the white house. Quickly, ryan, do we know how long the curfew is going to last . Is it going to keep going tonight, indefinitely . Reporter i think thats up in the air. Were not too sure. Im sure well be finding out either later this morning or this afternoon whats going to happen and whats going to be the plan for tonight. My thanks to ryan reilly of the huffington post. 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[guy] aarrrrr [announcer]even accents of vitaminrich veggies. [guy] so happy you love it so much. Yes you do but its good for you,too. [announcer] healthful. Flavorful. Beneful. From purina. Joining me is bob herbert, political strategist and columbia professor ba sus michael junior and Michael Steele. Thank you for being here. We heard that story from ryan reilly about captain ron johnsons encounter with a protester, a protester who is initially very hostile to him and he basically wins him over. Bob, you were making the comment, weve seen a lot of stories this week about ron johnson like this. Hes been one of the few sustained upbeat aspects of this story. Hes gone in. Hes a reasonable guy. He has calmed the community to some extent, not fully. But he hasnt abandoned his Law Enforcement responsibilities. The police at this point are in a very tough position. And thats because the authorities put them in such a tough position. But they cant just let the violence go unattended to. So people being shot, some people being hurt, perhaps looting. So they have to take care of that. On the other hand, the protesters have legitimate grievances and a right to protest. Its a tough line to walk and hes been doing i think a pretty good job walking that line. It does show. Part of it is hes from the community. Hes made this point. Ive seen him at press conferences making the point, the media is going to be gone at some point, but you, the protesters are going to be here and have to live here. Youre the ones i want to be talking to. It strikes me, the Term Community policing, where the police are as much a part of the community as the people theyre protecting and serving. Hes doing that and doing it in a way that up to now no one else seems to have been able to do. Certainly the police chief in ferguson. He is the best thing on the ground right now. He is the key asset that i think both the governor, Law Enforcement and even the fbi want to have in place. I noted in the video that at the beginning of the confrontation with the young man, the bandana was on. By the end, you could see his whole face. In other words, the protester had opened himself up to listening to what the chief had to say. I think that thats going to be critical going forward. I took note of his comment about the curfew. While he didnt say we shouldnt have a curfew, he said, well, last night didnt go as well as we had hoped. Meaning that theres probably some question as to whether or not the curfew is the best thing to put in place at this moment. Maybe a little bit later on, but let the community this is how hes expressed it, let the Community Work this out so that they can feel that at least youre hearing what i have to say, and if you want to say i have to be in by midnight, okay. Up to right now, i think the community largely feels put off and zes set aside. Hes been the link to kind of bring them in to the conversation with officials. Did that go better last night . We had the press conference yesterday. Well play more later. But certainly after that everybody was saying, i dont know if this curfew is a good idea, if this isnt going to end up riling up protesters. Did it go better than you thought . No. And i think to take michaels point, i wrestle with whether or not a curfew actually is a good thing because captain johnsons exchange there is extraordinarily important. I just look at listening to ryans comment. He mentioned that protester was acting in an aggressive and threatening manner. Maybe thats the case. To captain johnson, maybe its not aggressive and threatening. I think what michael and bob are talking about, you have to give the chance for the Community Leaders, the elected officials, members of the clergy to actually work with the protesters, with members of the community to actually start to solve these problems. They need to be able to stop a lot of the looting. And some of the more powerful pictures ive seen where Community Leaders may not have been dressed in a suit and tie, they could have been out there in a tshirt and shorts but saying this is my community, and youre not coming through this store. I think police need to empower the Community Leaders to be able to take that stand, to support their neighbors in trying to keep the peace. The other thing i thought of when i saw that scene with captain johnson, i was reading up on them the other day. I dont know if people noticed, the story of how he became a cop. He was stopped driving his car when he was 18, 19 years old, the officer was an afric africanamerican who stopped him. He took note of the pride with which the officer carried himself. He decided on the spot thats what he aspired to. Part of this story has been that this police force is 90 white, and the higherups in the Police Department are saying we dont have black applicants. I wonder if the presence of somebody like ron johnson on the ground, strisability of ron johnson, if there arent more future ron johnsons being created. This is an important point. People talk about diversity and tend to talk about it all the time. Very often its poo pood and that sort of thing. If a Community Like ferguson. I think they only have three africanamericans on the police force. It would make a big difference if you had a more Representative Police force. So you have stop other captain johnsons out there. It helps to make the authorities and the Police Department specifically not seem like an alien force thats trying to just control you. You have institutions like Law Enforcement, people tend to look at them and if they do not see themselves reflected in those institutions, their reactions to them sometimes leads to what weve seen over the last few days. To bobs point, it doesnt mean if you have a majority of black officers, you still wouldnt have the rights and all that. As you see with captain johnson, that calming effect, the ability to community, the act to read the body language of the community does matter, and to be quite frank about it, clearly johnson reads that body language very different than the Current Police chief read that body language. I would submit that that had been the white police chief in that position last night, it would have been a very different outcome. First off, he probably wouldnt have stopped to turn to talk to him. But had he done that, it would have been you could feel the tension coming off of it. With johnson, you saw the tension dissipate because he understood instinctively where this young man was coming from. Thats the other interesting thing. Michael, maybe you can appreciate this, Lieutenant Governor looking over a whole state. Usually it seems when you look at these situations, the ideal we talk about is the local people should be in charge, whether its education or policing or anything like that. Here is a case where the local people, the people on the ground mess this thing up completely, the state came in and the state is actually the representatives of the state are more in touch with the population than the locals. I actually dont think youre going to see the last of this nationally as demographics, not just in places like new york, but also in xhauler communities change where you have africanamericans moving into a lot of smaller communities, whether its in the midwest or the south, just the immigration broadly, youll see the cities become far more diverse. I think, whether its local governments or state governments view diversity as being important, youre not going to be able to get away with, well, there arent enough applicants. You have to go out and start growing your own. Absolutely. I think thats the next sort of test that we should have of elected officials, people in positions of leadership, what is your commitment to diversity . And we can see how that plays out on the ground in ferguson. Always such a bogus argument, oh, we cant find anyone. Bob, where do you think things are going from here . I think its very difficult because your reporter on the ground was talking about it looked like the protesters were changing, becoming younger, perhaps some becoming more militant. One of the things we can hope is the police show some restraint and people exhaust themselves. Just let it play out. But theres always the danger of violence. So you have to be really careful. A point i think is really important is this is not taking place ferguson is not taking place in a vacuum. Africanamericans across this country are angry and resentful over a number of issues and those issues have to be addressed. My thanks to bob herbert, appreciate that. Michael and basil, well see you late later. Well have much more from the situation in ferguson throughout the show including amazing extended video where missouri governor jay nixon announced the curfew and calling it a press conference is probably the worst way of describing it. Up next, the indictment of rick perry. Reaction to it is not what you might expect. One of perrys biggest defenders so far is one of president obamas closest confidants. Well explain next. S. Now its quicker and easier for you to start your business, protect your family, and launch your dreams. At legalzoom. Com we put the law on your side. [meow mix jingle slowly anright on cue. Cks] [cat meows] meow, meow, meow, meow. Its more than just a meal, its meow mix mealtime. With great taste and 100 complete nutrition, its the only one cats ask for by name. [music] defiance is in our bones. Defiance never grows old. Citracal maximum. Easily absorbed calcium plus d. Beauty is bone deep. I make a lot of purchases foand i get ass. 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Like the fact that youre pretty attached to these. Ok, really attached. And thats alright. Because well text you when your package is on the way. Were even expanding sunday package delivery. Yes, sunday. At the u. S. Postal service, our priority is. Was. And always will be. You. Making wholeheartedly and unequivocally stands by actions prosecutors are calling abuse of power and coercion of a public servant. Here is what happened to get to all this. Last year perry threatened to veto the funding of the District Attorney of Travis County which is where austin is. Threatened to do that if the d. A. Didnt resign from her job. That d. A. , Rosemary Lundberg has been convicteded for driving while intoxicated and sentenced to 45 days in prison. Video emerged showing her behaving hostilely when she was arrested. Because her office has jurisdiction over austin that run it is states Public Integrity unit, her job is to be the watch dog of other public officials. Perry says because of her behavior she was no longer fit to hold that position. On friday night the Governors Office insisted he had acted within the law. Even partisan democrats like David Axelrod were defending the texas republican. Axelrod wrote, unless he was trying to scrap the ethics united for other than the stated reason, perry indictment seems very sketchy. For now, here is more of what perry had to say about the charges against him. I exercised this authority to veto funding for an office whose leadership had lost the publics confidence by acting inappropriately and unethically. I am confident that we will ultimately prevail, that this force of a prosecution will be reveeltd for what it is. And those responsible will be held accountable. Question now is will these corruption charges halt governor perrys bid to transform himself as the picture of competency with republican primary voters as he thinks about 2016. Joining me now is christie hobby the Austin Bureau chief of the dallas morning news. Thanks for joining us this morning. Im cure use ops how this is all going over in texas. Generally speaking in politics, when the headline is governor, senator, president , whatever, indicted, it is a terrible catastrophic headline for that politician. Is this playing out that way or is this is yes, but story in texas . A little bit of both. You cannot get beyond the fact that you have a governor indicted on two major felonies, one that carries a sentence of 99 years. At the same time texas has always been a sharp elbowed, rough and tumble type of political state. Thats the type of politics perry has played. Some people have questioned whether were criminalizing the kind of arm twisting that often goes on in politics. Thats the issue i have. The threat of a veto to produce some kind of action, thats sort of a point of a veto threat. Legally speaking at this point, hes going to turn himself in i guess this week for arraignment. I guess thats being arranged. You say the possible sentence does go up to 99 years. Is there an expectation that this will go to trial or a way this might not reach trial . I think from what governor pearly said yesterday, what the prosecutor said, it would go to trial. I wouldnt expect any kind of plea deal. The governor was very emphatic and defiant yesterday, and i think he said he wanted a swift trial. Politically, if he can beat this charge, he needs to put it behind him as quickly as possible to have any opportunity or chance to clear his name and continue his quest for a president ial nomination. We have Michael Steele, former rnc chairman here. Nationally speaking, looking at the Republican Party, rick perry wants another chance to run for president in 2016. Now hes got to deal with this. Whats the effect . I think it enhances his stature ironically enough. Hes fighting against a d. A. s office that is very much politicized. It is really one of the last bunkers in texas for democrats. This office in the past has indicted Kay Bailey Hutchison which was thrown out on the first day of trial, the opening. There is this political history that plays into a very good narrative for the governor. And, you know, his defiance at that podium really sort of speaks to that narrative. And it enhances and emboldens him within this state and republicans outside looking in, as youve heard republicans from around the country, even potential rivals like bobby jindal coming to his defense and saying emphatically, this is bogus. His offense is not a prosecutable offense because its part of his executive authority and this is what he does. Now, the problem was he sort of telegraphed and said what he was going to do. He did it without necessarily saying what was on his mind. Youre trying to get him on a veto threat. Even democrats in government look at this and say the power of the line item veto, the executives power to have the veto, any kind of threat is going to be coercive in nature. This is politics. This is politics. This is what politics is. Christi, i have one more question about where this goes legally. This is in a county, i get the most democratic county in texas. If there is a jury trial there, this is going to be a more democratic, anti rick perry jury pool than you get elsewhere in texas. Very possibly. Let me make a point. This was not rosemary lindberghs District Attorneys office that is prosecuting this. This is a special prosecutor named by a republican judge and has Many Republican ties who is prosecuting this. So there is that, and in addition, its not the veto threat that is part of this indictment. Everybody has a veto threat. Its that he said unless rosemary lindbergh does something, unless he resigns her office which is supposedly the coercion part of this, that he will veto it then. Hes mandating she leave her job in order to receive funding. Again, to me thats politics. Throw lbj in jail. Still ahead, more from ferguson including more incredible sound from when the curfew was announced yesterday. First, we know theyre trying, trying for a long time. Will republicans be able to bring africanamericans back into their fold . Interesting conversation on that. Stay with us. Whos more excited about back to School Savings at staples . The moms . Or the dads . With guaranteed low prices on sharpies, its definitely the dads. Staples. Make more happen for less. Its taken as an established fact in modern mole ticks that africanamerican voters tend to vote for democrats. Barack obama took 93 of the black vote in 2012 when he won reelection. Even john kerry when he lost to george w. Bush, he still claimed 88 of the black vote. In fact, since 1964 democrats have won at least 80 of the black vote in every president ial election. Republicans, of course, have been trying to change this or saying they want to try to change this for a long time. So long that it can be easy to forget that it wasnt always this way. Republican party was actually founded in the 1850s by americans who wanted to abolish slavery. The iconic republican president who did just that was elected in 1860. Fast forward 1 e 00 years, they began to attract the south earn dem skrats against Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s. Barry goldwater joined the segregationist block in their failed attempt to filibuster in 1964, he won the republican nominee that fall even as he suffered one of the worst defeats elsewhere in the country. The republican built the stronghold with a strategy, the socalled southern strategy that included appeals to racism. Many people didnt think it was an accident that Ronald Reagan chose to launch his general Election Campaign in philadelphia and mississippi in 1980, a county most famous as the place where three civil rights workers had been murdered only 15 years earlier. Reagan spoke in that speech of his fondness for states rights. Many believed he was sending a clear message to locals. Historian Joe Lanny Cobb writing, quote, an honest appeal to africanamericans would start with the admission that republicans didnt lose the black vote but forfeited it. The Republican Party now face it is same dilemma as the mid 20th century democratic party, whether its interest in black voters might ever outweigh the investment into reactionary politics of race. So what is it going to take for the Republican Party to win black voters back. It appears at least on paper to be some Common Ground, things like religion and school vouchers, but nothing republicans have said or done for the last 50 years has budged the needle. What would it really take and are republicans willing to do it. Joining me is jamelle buoy of slate, former rnc chairman Michael Steele is with us. We established the history there, not everybody remembers the Republican Party once was the home of black voters. Hasnt been for a long time now. In your mind, what would it take for republicans to move the needle in a way they havent for the last 50 years. Here is a way where republicans could do well to reach back in the history, not necessarily the movement of conservatism, but stalwart or modern republicanism. In the 1960s you did have a fight between moderate republicans and intuitive republicans over whether or not attracting the black vote was going to be a focus. Moderate republicans, especially those elected to local positions, those elected to mayorships of cities, elected to governor ships, put forth a sustained effort to try to attract black voters who had sort of attempts in cities to break democratic machines and attract black voters with economic programs geared towards entrepreneur ship and also attempts to reduce crime, so on and so forth. Thats an approach i think that can work again. Im not sure if republicans can take right now a National Approach to winning black voters, but local approaches, based on shared concerns like reducing the footprint of Police Forces in black neighborhoods, reforming sentencing laws, again, focusing on entrepreneurship and bringing Investment Capital and Mortgage Capital to the communities, can we ginn the process of building a bridge. If you can begin building those coalitions on a local and statewide level, those are things that can be built into something much larger. Michael, in what jamelle is describing there is something that in some corners of the Republican Party was working through the 60s and even the 70s, not so much we see today. How much is the Republican Party today in terms of reaching out to black voters. You chaired the party. In your experience, how much is it haunted by the legacy of when the Civil Rights Movement happened in this country and there was a backlash down south, the Republican Party made itself at home very little. That narrative has kind of run its course with particularly newer generations of africanamericans who dont relate back to history. My parents obviously would. I would, my sons do not. Thats a very different narrative now that we have to have a very different conversation. To mr. Cobbs point, ill agree with all of that. But the problem is the National Conversation overwhelms the local conversation. While you may have the conversation about entrepreneurism and we want to create vibrant school systems, et cetera, Voting Rights, civil rights, the National Conversation in the noshl conversation of republicans dwarfs that conversation at the local level. Its hard to convince black folks when you want them when they look around and see you limiting them at the ballot box. Lets take this issue of Voting Rights, voter id initiatives around the country. You identified a key point, when you have that conversation and you say this is what its doing to us, what do they say back to you . A lot of times the pushback is weve got to protect the ballot box. I agree with you. Lets do that. Why do you do that in a way that alienates the very people you want to be a part of the process . We should be the party as we once were, of opening ourselves up to the community and saying yall come, we want you to be a part of this, we want you to have access unfettered to the ballot box. The party is now more fixated on how you vote not necessarily that you vote. As National Chairman i ran into this problem quite a bit. My emphasis was not on how you vote, republican, i want to make sure you had access to the ballot box because it opened up the conversation. Then that doesnt become a stumbling block. Here is the final point on that not the final point, but a key point. While you may have a National Autopsy about we need to get the black vote, unless county chairmen and state chairmen buy in wholeheartedly, its not going to work. Thats the retail of politics. Thats where the action is. Its in the local community that youre talking about that it matters that the local Republican Party wants you and needs you to be a part of the process. So the National Chairman saying one thing is great, but unless the county chairman and the local chairman follow it up, it doesnt go anywhere. Jamelle, let me ask you about the history of this and the relevance to the modern moment. Something that happened 40, 50 years ago to somebody under 40, 50 years old is going to feel like, i dont know, this is before my time. At the same time can you see a connection between the decision made by the Republican Party to build its future in the south, to build its future with white voters in the south back in the 60s. Were talking today about Something Like voter id initiatives. Not just the south, but all across the country. I agree with michael that for younger people, the particular decision may not be very relevant, but the consequences of the decision are. The consequences of the decision are that the Republican Party is very much a southern and western party, and that has left us with a situation where those norms, those norms of behavior have spread throughout the entire Republican Party. Something like voter id laws which are part and parcel of southern politics, trying to restrict people from getting to the ballot have now spread throughout the country and are seen in wisconsin and pennsylvania and places that traditionally havent had these kind of policies in the 60s and 470s and 50s, you had republican mayors in big cities. It meant the Republican Party geographically had to appeal to a diverse people. Thats not the case anymore. The Republican Partys Geographic Reach is pretty much in the south and in the west. That means its appealing to a small slice of voters. Theres no need for it as a matter of Party Infrastructure to include voices of people who are different. When it comes time to reach out to a national audience, theres no there are very few politicians able to do that because theyve never had to do it as a matter of their daytoday political lives. Its a huge problem and conversely its sort of why the democrats retain this strength of appealing to multiple interests. Its a geographically Diverse Party had they tried to win voters in the south, in teefrkts on the west coast. That allows for a lot of flexibility that ive not sure the Republican Party has but it needs to begin the process of appealing to black voters. I want to hear what miking has to say about that, the sort of demise of big city republicanism. I have to squeeze a break in. Well pick this up when we come back. Defiance never grows old. Citracal maximum. Easily absorbed calcium plus d. Beauty is bone deep. Well start looking for an suv. Fire by firenze sir . Start your Search Online with over 35,000 carmax quality certified used cars. Carmax. Start here. Feet. Tiptoeing. Better things than the pain, stiffness, and joint damage of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. Before you and your rheumatologist decide on a biologic, ask if xeljanz is right for you. 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Picking up this discussion about black voters of the Republican Party, jamelle was making the point it used to be republicans had a toe hold in a lot of big cities. I can remember about 20 years ago the two largest cities in the country, los angeles and new york, both had republican mayors at the same time, rear den and juliana. The 12 biggest cities, they may all have democratic mayors, basically all democratic. It seems like thats a big part of the story. It is a big part of the story. It speaks to the demographic shifts that have occurred around the country, the conservation of people in certain areas while they may expand in some others. For me, a big part is how the party adapts. I used to say to national leadership, lets go and grab republicans where we find them. We dont need to create them, we dont need to say you need to be a republican. Lets take that message of ownership, empowerment and opportunity into communities and have them define and shape it for themselves. You see that with individuals like giuliani and others who are able to navigate their way through it. One of the key leaders was jack kemp who instinctively understood how to have to conversation with black america in a way they didnt feel put off, that he was talking down to them. He made them a part of it. Does the Republican Party of today, when you look at the red state and blue state map. They look at the electoral map and write off basically the biggest metro areas around the country and say were going to win this thing in the south n the west, thats our path. One of the most boneheaded things you can do in politics is write off communities of people. When i was National Chairman, my First Official trip outside of washington was new york. I came to harlem to do a down hall on health care and a whole bunch of other issues. The blowback inside washington political elite was why are you going to harlem . Thats where the votes are. Thats where the conversations need to be had. If we believe in this entrepreneurial stuff, lets talk to a community thats entrepreneurial. If we have issues on health care and how we think we have a better plan, lets go talk to them about that. The parties have gotten into this bunker mentality where we go and we do photo ops, have a conversation and we put some boots on the ground, but youre not really engaging people because you still havent addressed fundamentally the core issues black folks are concerned about. What are you going to do about my civil rights, my Voting Rights . What are you going to do that makes me feel im a part of the American Dream and not an afterthought . I think thats a powerful conversation for the party to have in the 21st century that were not having. Jamelle, the final question for you. You talked earlier about starting this more at a local level, obviously the context right now, rand paul, paul ryan, a couple of prominent republicans have been doing some form of listening tours going to nonwhite areas, city urban areas. Do you see anything coming out of that and the way rand paul has responded to ferguson, for instance, that might be opening the doors for republicans . I think in the medium term and the longterm, these are things you can do to open up conversations, that begin the process of maybe never winning 15 and 20 or 25 of the black vote, but certainly getting back to your 11, 12 and 13 totals you saw in the 2000 and 2004 elections, things that are still gettable for republicans and would make a difference in terms of winning states like virginia and ohio and florida. With that said, i think for republicans to want to get anymore than that does kind of require a fundamental change in the party. Its noteworthy that the high watermark for republican vote getting in the postwar era in 1960 1956, 1960 when republicans were polling a third of the black vote came when the party was ideologically hetero documentsed. And its not anymore. I think as long as the gop is ideologically conservative and not just philosophically conservative, voters may not share that same ideological view, but our appeal to other aspects of republicanism. I always say the age of lowered expectations and the goal should be 11 or 12 , still writing off 87. Rand paul is cutting into that. My thanks to jamelle bouie. Much more when we come back. [guy] you love it so much. Yes you do. But its good for you, too. [announcer] healthful. Flavorful. Beneful. From purina. Hey pal . You ready . Can you pick me up at 6 30 . Ah. boy im here im here cop too late. I was gone for five minutes ugh move it. Youre killing me. You know what, dad . 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It has been only a matter of hours since the overnight curfew in ferguson, missouri, was lifted, a curfew that did not fully empty the streets of the st. Louis suburb. Hundreds of protesters did leave before the midnight deadline. Among those who remained experienced smoke, fear gas. A police car fired upon in the vicinity. One protester was shot and critically wounded by another protester in the chaos. Nbcs ron allen is in ferguson joining us with the latest. Good morning, ron. Reporter good morning, steve. I think everyone here is trying to sort out what happened last night. There was a curfew imposed and a huge show of force that happened last night. The police said they had planned to go in with a much softer approach, were going to go in on foot patrols. They say right around the time that the curfew was to be imposed around 12 00 midnight, they had reports of armed gunmen in the area, reports of a shooting victim who turned out to be in Critical Condition. They felt at that point they had to go in with much more force. They tried to clear the street, they did clear the street. They fired at first smoke canisters and teargas later in the operation. It took about 45 minutes or so to clear the streets and then they the protesters left. It was a confusing situation. It wasnt about the curfew or these armed gunmen which made many of us think this was an aggressive move to impose the curfew. They said this was not about the curfew but the threat of violence. There was a police car that had been fired on they said later. A lot of emotion here. A lot of passion here from the protesters, some who were dug in and defiant who had said they were going to stay here despite the curfew. It turned out that the larger issue that the police were concerned about were these armed gunmen in the area. There was a lot of bullets, a lot of weaponry there on both sides apparently. There were lots of reports of gunfire through the night at different points of the night. So a continuing volatile situation. The rest of the town, i have to say this, there was violence confined to a small area of ferguson. The rest of the town observed the call for a curfew peaceful. The officials have not said whether they will impose another curfew tonight. I have every expectation theyll try to do that again. Ron allen for us live on the ground out there in ferguson. Appreciate the time this morning the curfew was imposed by missouri governor jay nixon in a press conference in which he declared a state of emergency. Tensions didnt just flare overnight on the streets of ferguson. It did dont as the governor and Law Enforcement officials probably hoped it would. Were going to achieve justice. We must first have and maintain peace. This is a test. The eyes of the world are watching. Excuse me, governor, you need to charge that policeman with murder. [ cheers and applause ] the curfew will start today. It will run from 12 00 midnight, is when the curfew will start, until 5 00 in the morning. We will enforce that curfew in an effort to provide safety and security to the area. Our focus is security and were going to maintain that focus while continuing to comment and support appropriately. [ shouting ] how do you and mr. Johnson going to enforce this curfew tonight peacefully . Are you going to do teargas again . Are you bringing back military force . How are you planning to enforce this curfew . The best way for any well hear from him. Well hear from him. The best way for us to get peace is for everybody to help to make sure that everybody gets home safe tonight at 12 00 and gets a good solid five hours sleep before they get up tomorrow morning. Why is the focus on security and not getting justice . Ill let you yell at me next. If we want one question at a time, please. If we want justice, we cannot be distracted. We must be focused on making sure that people are allowed their First Amendment rights. The citizens that youre asking to help you, we call 911, we call the county, we call the local police and everybody was pushing the buck. Its like were chasing our tail. Youre asking us to help, but we dont know how to help. Can i answer that . Thats why were going to clear those streets. We did have citizens who called and we were unable to get to them. Were going to clear the streets so we can handle those cases. Joining me now, former Republican National Committee Chairman michael industrial, political strategist basil smikle, junior and Eleanor Cliff from the daily beast joins us, too. Im not sure how many people got to see that yesterday afternoon. Its extraordinary, not only the act of declaring a state of emergency, but a governor of the state, a major elected official standing there and facing overt hostility from members of this community and listening to it, responding to it a little bit maybe getting a little peevish at one point. So much of the images weve seen in the last week or are are right out of the 60s. This is still going on, but what we didnt see in the 60s was state officials standing up and trying to engage in a positive way. I think theres a lot of anger here that predated the incident. Theyre angry at the governor who hasnt been there for them. He cared for them at voting time. Hes made a good decision in putting johnson in charge, a brilliant move. Someone who actually comes from the community, understands the community and can relate. I think theyre working their way through this, but theres a lot of opportunistic crime thats going to occur. That gives some folks a, look, we told you so, this is what its about. The politics of this is that you now have people on the right saying this is the heavy handed government coming down and theyre siding with the protesters. I think the fear among some democrats is that africanamerican populations could be turned off. When it comes to voting time, theyre not going to show up and the right will. We look at everything now through the prism of whats going to happen in november. Basil, im curious, too. Eleanor mentions ron johnson. I may be totally off base, but i noticed this i thought a few times where its a guy who cares deeply about the community and also in some cases is following orders. It seemed to me at that press conference when he said were going to get through this the tone of his voice is this maybe wasnt something he was a decision he was particularly happy about but he was going to carry it out. Thats absolutely right. Bob herbert talked about this earlier. Hes tasked with two things. One, hes from the community and he understands it. Hes trying to work with the folks in the community to say this is how we can move forward. Hes also a Law Enforcement official and has to uphold the law. I think the tone, when you talk about tone, theres a sense that the officials are getting up saying weve got to still find a way to control you folks. Theres this patronizing tone that comes across. As a governor, youre talking about peace and i understand that hes trying to do the right thing now. From the communitys perspective, youve had days of this hyper militarized police force coming down on this community. Again, you guys were talking about this earlier. Still not really addressing the underlying problems, i think captain johnson, what hes much more sensitive to is the underlying problem, the on going tension between the community and the police. I got the impression that before this press Conference Im totally guessing here, but got the impression when the governor came in and said this is what we want to do that captain johnson said you want to do what . I think thats a correct impression. Did you ever encounter anything like this in politics, an elected official having to go face a crowd like that . Its very hard. After hurricane agnes, for example, in 2003, new administration had just come in, families had been displaced. They wanted to know immediately, so what do you do to help us through the recovery. What type of assistance are you prepared to bring and help this community. While this is not that, but the underlying argument is the same. What are you going to do to help this community, very much to basils point, we want to get a sense that you understand our fight and our struggle here. Oh, those military tanks dont express that sense that you understand our fight and struggle. You create this immediate tension. Johnson, to eleanors point, is such a pivotal player here because he is the bridge between the authoritarian aspects of the government coming in with their curfews and the police force and the community that just wants answers. You heard the crowd say, if my son had killed a cop, hed be in jail now. So why wont you arrest one of your own who you identified as the one who killed this young man. Theyre looking for that parody and justice they dont see. It frustrates the purpose even more. Its amazing how much difference a single leader can make. Im thinking of katrina, captain honeray, he came in and changed the whole tone of how that tragedy was treated and how the people that had been so critically damaged throughout it were being seen and heard. Here we have a new generation really discovering the power of protest. This has not spread to other cities. Im not saying it should or would, but you do have this sense that, if you take to the streets, you get the National Media to Pay Attention and you may get some focus on your problems which we thought wed put to bed all the protests. Another quick point. One of the things that has sparked the tension, you had the Police Department release the images of this individual Michael Brown robbing a store and it also speaks to this disparate treatment of predominantly africanamerican and latino alleged perpetrators of crimes, how do you talk about someone after theyve been arrested. There was some article that came out a day or so ago that if you took a look at the number of white criminals and how theyre talk about in the press, in the case of the colorado shooting, this bright young man went xlooi completely awry, whereas theres a constant barrage of negative comments about young africanamerican men. An immediate need to put the image out there, we saw it in the Trayvon Martin case, we see it here, characterizing this individual as a thug, as a threat. The coincidence the timing of putting that out with the officers name and not the officers picture, thats suspicious is the polite way of putting that. The other thing that struck me, jay nixon couldnt decide if he wanted a conciliatory tone or if he wanted to lay down the law. He stood there, i guess i let you talk, he looked week and indecisive. The governor whose people around him have talked a little bit about the presidency. Well be back with breaking news right after this. No matter where you want to be or what you want to do, chances are were already there. 12 brands. More hotels than anyone else in the world. Like super 8, where every destination is super. For a chance to win one million dollars, visit wyndhamrewards. Com virtually all your important legal matters in just minutes. 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Officer Darren Williams is the officer who shot and killed Michael Brown. Back here with the panel getting our first look at the officer. Obviously the obvious question it raises, why it would take this long to get that picture. Again, complicates the narrative when youre trying to police a community thats upset and do investigations and create an avenue where you can begin to have this sort of on going dialogue with the broader community. There was no hesitation with Michael Browns photo to get that out there and to show the perpetrator of a potential crime. Yet we knew who the officer was. I get the argument about the safety of the family and all that, but hes a public official and this is a public investigation and at least the community should know who were talking about. I think it changes the community to think that somehow their reaction would be to go to harm his family or harm him. They just want the justice thats deserved. Because black folks are upset, they think they want to get violent and start going after people. Do your job, do it well, do it openly and then it will save you a lot of pain and headache. You dont have to worry about curfews, dont have to worry about the types of things weve seen happen in ferguson if the police come we had jim cavanaugh, our Law Enforcement analyst on the show yesterday basically saying, look, you have its not been publicly reported, but you have witness whose have spoken publicly about what they saw, eyewitnesss to this shooting about what they saw. Based on that, in his perspective, there should be enough right now to bring the officer in. Its not a conviction. The police tend to circle the wagons. And this us versus them attitude permeates everything here. I dont know what the procedure is. I dont know whether its a fullblown arrest or whatever. They need to start the wheels of justice grinding. And then i think they have to think in broader terms. Whatever the version in ferguson would be of the truth and reconciliation commissions that weve seen in south africa and other there has to be a broader process here for the community to be heard and for genuine grievances to be corrected. But they have to get the they have to honor justice in handling this Police Officer for him that was the refrain at the press conference from the crowd yesterday. To recap the breaking news here, nbc news has verified the photographs weve shown you. Youll be seeing a lot of officer dar rern wilson. These are the first photos weve seen first reported by yahoo news. Ferguson police has not responded to nbc news for comment on the photos. Hen couns. 1 pac of cascade complete cleans tough food better than 6 pacs of the bargain brand combined. Cascade. Beyond clean and shine. Every time. Than 6 pacs of the bargain brand combined. Geicmoney for over 75 years. Save theyve really stood the test of time. Much like these majestic rocky mountains. 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The new york magazines Jonathan Chait wrote the legislature with hardly negotiate with the governor if they wont tell in advance what he plans to veto. This is why when you say the word veto, the next word that springs to mind is threat. Thats how vetoes work. Thats not the say this is necessarily a positive for governor perry. I dont think its a career killer necessarily, we want to debate the implications and debate whether this is a strong case or not with two guests right now, we have brian weiss, a houston defense attorney who successfully overturned the corruption unit prosecution of tom delay. In austin will haler, executive director of the Texas Democratic party. I said earlier in the show, i need convincing that this should be something any governor should be indilted for. Will, tell me why im wrong . This is an i understand dint investigation done by a republican judge presiding over the case, a nonpartisan prosecutor appointed by that republican judge and a pair of texans found the governor guilty of abuse of power and coercion. This is one of the worst examples we have seen for some time. The governor used his political tune to go after an office charged and tasked with to make sure no illegal stuff happens in the texas capital. There is without a doubt no reason the governor wanted to end this unit and get rid of rosemary lindbergh, the chief of the unit, because of what was happening on the Cancer Research fund in texas. Will, how can you say theres absolutely no doubt when this is the head of the Public Integrity unit, driving three times over the legal limit, belligerent with Law Enforcement. If you have your position and you do that, you should for facility your right to do that job. Theyve been going after the Public Integrity unit since 2005. In 2007 they tried to cut funding. The reason why this is the only check against abuse thats happening in austin. Republicans like governor perry and his cronies like attorney general abbott have been abusing power when it comes to boards like the Cancer Research fund wra theyre doling out taxpayer dollars to their donors. The integrity unit was looking into it at this time. If the governor really wanted to get rid of the d. A. , he would have called the legislature back to issue an impeachment. He also wouldnt have said that the d. A. Should stick around. The san Antonio Expressnews reported a couple days ago that the governor and his team were trying to keep her on as a second in command. The only reason to go after her was they didnt like that she was investigating them for improprieties that were happening before. Thats really whats at stake here. Brian, lets start by taking the interpretation we just heard from will and lets say thats the case, hypothetically speaking. Lets say the intent here from rick perry was not to get somebody out who drove drunk and acted belligerent to Law Enforcement. Lets say the intent is to shut down an investigation. Is there then a crime . Absolutely not. My good friend will misstates what happened on friday. The grand jury hasnt found governor perry guilty of anything. There is a chasm that exists between probable cause, whether its more likely than not and proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Moreover, ive looked at this indictment now and im telling you guys i havent seen crap like this since i paid 13 bucks to seen the lone ranger. This is outrageous. If you look at the indictment, you will see on its face that rick perry had every right, under the separation of powers doctrine to veto this legislation. Why . Maybe because his analyst told him to do it, maybe because it was ultimately in the best interest of the citizens of this great state, maybe because he wanted to impress jodie foster. Rick perry knew that rosemary lindbergh and the video weve seen over the course of the last couple days on your show makes it clear. When she was arrested she acted like a drunk, a bully and a thug. This is a woman who controlled an eight or 9 million unit with statewide jurisdiction to investigate any public official. If that doesnt scare you, it should. Are you saying looking at the texas state constitution, the power of the line item veto, are you basically the legal case here is thats an absolute power, you can veto anything you want for any reason any time you want. Theres no question about that. He didnt have to say why he did. In this great state, we dont indict politicians for being candid and being frank. This is nothing more than the criminalization of politics. Indicting rick perry for doing his job as folks like David Axelrod has said, its like handing out speeding tickets at the indy 500. You cant take a series of legal acts and transform them into an illegal one. What theyve done in this case with this garbage in my estimation sets a precedent that ought to make every elected official in this great states head spin like the exorcist. Any state that gives its governor the power not just to veto but a line item veto is empowering that governor essentially to veto any specific items out of the budget he wants at any time for any reason. You may not like the reason here, but why cant he do that . He has that power. If they really wanted to go after the d. A. , like i said, they could have had articles of impeachment brought up in the legislature. Why is perry saying she should have stayed on in a number two position . What they were upset about is this d. A. Was going after illegal activity which has led to indictments on the khanner research fund. Can you prove a link there . Absolutely. The money that was going out of this fund were going to perry and abbott donors. They were investigating this at the time. This is the reason perry called on her to step down so vehemently even though there were other things he could have done as governor. Governor perry is one of the longest serving gov morse in texas history. It hasnt been since 1917 that they have issued an indictment on two felony accounts for a governor. This is not a partisan witch hunt. This is about a culture of corruption which is surrounding perry and surrounding the Republican Party not only in austin but across the country. Hes three of four former Republican Governor Association chair whose have either been indicted or faced federal investigations. This is about a culture of corruption and not playing by the rules. Thats ultimately what texans want out of this. Yesterday morning 26 million texans woke up and didnt get indicted. Their governor had been. Thats a real shame. To me the bottom line is if perry doesnt say anything and vetoes this, no one can ever say exactly why it happened and could have no case here at all. I still dont think theres much of a kaechlts i appreciate you taking the time and trying to convince us, will. Brian wice i appreciate you bringing your courtroom a game. A reaction to the riots in ferguson, and that reaction may surprise you. When you run a business, you cant settle for slow. Thats why i always choose the fastest intern. The fastest printer. The fastest lunch. Turkey club. The fastest pencil sharpener. The fastest elevator. The fastest speed dial. The Fastest Office plant. So why wouldnt i choose the fastest wifi . I would. Switch to comcast Business Internet and get the fastest wifi included. Comcast business. Built for business. Honey, look i got one to land. Uhhuh announcer theres good more. Honey, look at all these smart rewards points verizon just gave me. Ooh, you got a buddy. Im like a statue. I just signed up and, boom, all these points. And theres notsogood more. Youre a big guy. Huh. Oh no. Get the good more with Verizon Smart rewards and rack up points to use towards the things you really want. Now get 50 off all new smartphones. To recap our breaking news this hour, nbc news has verified two photographs of officer darren wilson. Hes the ferguson Police Officer who shot and killed Michael Brown. These are the first photos we have seen of the officer. They were first reported by yahoo news. Ferguson police have not responded to nbcs news request for comments on the photos. N the wake of a very aggressive response by police to protesters, were seeing a different plight calgary reaction in this country, one thats not as predictable and neatly divided. That point was driven home when time published an op end by kentucky senator rand paul expressing grave concern about the conduct of the police in ferguson. The scenes of camouflaged heavily armed officers confronting civilians he wrote resemble war. Speaking out against the militarization of Americas Police appears to be part of senator pauls broader platform to bring reform to the criminal justice system. He and democratic senator cory booker are cosponsoring legislation to end mandatory minimums and restore Voting Rights for felons. The problem really of the war on drugs is taking a lot of people who make youthful mistakes and punishing them for a lifetime. Rand paul has democratic allies in this mission. The question now is who on the right will join him . Here to discuss this, peter suitor man and Michael Steele back with us. Peter, ill start with you. The libertarianleaning magazine, probably a lot of Common Ground with rand paul. I wonder in terms of the broader political right, not just the libertarian movement, but broader political right that exists, how much appetite is there, for instance, for what rand paul is saying this week about the militarization of police . I think there is a fair amount of appetite. Its not just rand paul. Its also folks like representative mash who issued an even more strongly worded statement, just a tweet, basically said in addition to seeing ferguson, saying the images in ferguson were like a war zone, he also said that the governments militarized response escalated the tension. He was putting actually some of the blame on the government for escalating tensions there. I think thats something that youre increasingly going to see and youre going to see it for a couple reasons. One is that conservatives have already started to become convinced that sentencing reform and Prison Reform in particular is a good idea. They were hooked on this idea because of budgetary concerns. In Texas Governor perry start add Prison Reform project looking the shut down prisons. Maintaining prisons is very expensive. Budgetary concerns are the gateway drug here. You also see that the crime concerns, the crime wave of the 70s and 80s doesnt exist anymore. We see a lot less crime in our cities and a lot less crime on our streets. That makes it easier for conservatives, republicans to take a more libertarian stance on some of these issues. Youre seeing that with folks like rand paul who is very influential in the party and with representative mash who is very influential with particularly the tea party folks. Peter, you mentioned the precipitous decline in the Violent Crime rate over the last generation or to. It strikes me that so much of the success of the Republican Party was built in the 70s, 80s, even the 90s, tough on crime, reverence for Law Enforcement. The democrats want to understand the criminals, the republicans want to punish the criminals. Do you think it can work still . I think that republicans are going to be shifting. I think ferguson shows that there is right now that theres a shift going on. I think what were seeing is that republicans are saying look, we are a party that has talked about the problems with state power, the problems with unchecked state power, with federal incentives. Thats a big part of this. Rand paul mentions this in his piece for time magazine. He talks about the way the federal has spent money, 35 billion from the department of Homeland Security since 2002 to armor up these local Police Forces. I think what youre increasingly going to see are conservatives and republicans who take their natural skepticism of federal power in particular and apply it here and say, look, we need to be consistent. We see there are problems with this. We see this is actually making the decision worse, and were not even in a situation where you can make the argument that this is necessary because theres a huge crime wave anymore. Its made this new way of seeing things i shouldnt say new, but new for a lot of republicans, this different way of seeing things much more potent than it was ten years ago. In his time piece he tried to make the connection that this is the federal government and devolving down to this. Michael, i look at this skept cli in terms of the politics. I take peters point that theres a growing appetite on the right, but in general for what rand paul is talking about with the police. That old tough on crime message, the Political Party is not going to give that up easy. I dont know if they give it up easily or completely. But what they do is update it. I think thats what rand paul is context lizing right now. I was struck by a comment he said if i had been told the get out of the street as a teenager, there would have been a distinct possibility i might have smarted off, but i wouldnt expect to be shot. Thats to have someone like a rand paul make that kind of acknowledgment, it touches to the community thats listening, it opens up a sensitivity in the conversation to the plight of individuals with a specific region of the country or demographic. Thats new. Its not that weve tough on crime and going to enforce the law what tools do we use . Do we use tanks or walk the street with the protesters. I think rand paul is moving the party. The representative is doing the same thing, moving the conversation in a direction where people are. I think thats important. I said to you and i think its true, rand paul is perhaps the most dangerous man in politics for democrats and republicans right now because hes playing against type, going outside of his comfort zone and this is just one of those examples that i think has the potential of transforming the political landscape. Not that youre going to get all the benefits in one election cycle. But if hes consistent and emerges as the leader of that new voice, he can bring the party into a new space. He was on our airwaves a year ago that Chris Matthews thinks he said rand paul 2016 nominee. I said thats crazy. I dont see it as so crazy. My thanks to peter for joining us. Coming up, vacation shaming of american president s. Well separate fact from fiction. Thats next. A happy little place and it all starts with you whoaohohoh, all this goodness. Afterschool snacking should be fun and nutritious which is why we put whole grains first in every General Mills big g cereal what matters most should always come first General Mills. Look for the g, it means goodness first. A body at rest tends to stay at rest. While a body in motion tends to stay in motion. Staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. But if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. Prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. 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Dont take celebrex if you have bleeding in the stomach or intestine, or had an asthma attack, hives, other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. Get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor your medical history. And find an Arthritis Treatment for you. Visit celebrex. Com and ask your doctor about celebrex. For a body in motion. You can count on the streets of new york city smelling like the worst scratch and sniff book ever. You can count on criticism when the president , any president goes on vacation. George bush took more vacation than any other president in the white house. Mountain bike ride today. A brief distraction. The president is not scheduled to go back to washington until the end of august. President obama, well, hes in full vacation mode. Hes really on the golf course a lot. Playing golf. Vacationing on a multimillion dollar Marthas Vineyard estate. The kind of president most of you can only dream about. It is the kind of story that seems to rely more on august being a slow news month. Not true this month, of course, than the facts. President s really get to go on vacation or take a traveling version of the white house with them wherever they go . A lot has been made of the vacations that president george w. Bush took. According to mark knoller, the president took 407 vacation days, president obama a total of 125 days. As the Washington Post pointed out thats nothing compared to earlier president s. President john adam left the Nations Capital for his home nor eight straight months at the time the u. S. Was on the brink of war with france. James madison skipped town for about five months. Also criticism about what these vacations will cost taxpayers. Michelle obama took her children and mother to spain, accused of spending 10 million. The first families foot the bill for their own lodging, food and incidentals. What they dont pay for is the security costs that come with that and the Staff Members that have to come with them because, as we talked about, when youre president , you dont ever get to stop working. To paraphrase how one writer put it, is it time to stop vacation shaming our president s. Michael steele and Eleanor Cliff join me to talk about this. Eleanor, lets give you a chance to come clean. Youve been a journalist for a while, have you ever vacationshamed a president . In my memory i think it started with president reagan. The white house responded, they coined the phrase working vacation. The press corps would decamp to california, you never got to see the president. You would have briefings by the beach. The press corps was kind of enjoying that as well. It depends a lot the beach versus bush in waco texas or Marthas Vineyard. Or jimmy carter in plains, texas. Its an easy target. President bush for a time did suspend his golfing when the iraq war was going badly. After he had one tee shot after delivering a sober message, he turned around and said see that or watch that. Ive seen that clip once or twice. Michael, so much of it has to do with, hey, if congress is in town, hes not in town, whats the point of anyone being in d. C. . The president goes off somewhere in august. Does he really need to be in washington . The congress at 19 , i dont think people care or mess them. Its probably a good thing theyre not in town. The difference between the day of john adams taking eight months off and the president Marthas Vineyard is the press corps itself has changed. But the universe of communication has changed and now is the 24hour news cycle and all the other ways that the president keeps tabs and i think in this particular instance, given the complexity of things that are going on, theres a greater emphasis that is focused on how the president is spending his time. If there seems to be equivocation in policy and there doesnt seem to be a focused energy in any given direction on any given issue, then vacation becomes a wonderful excuse and a good bag to hit at. But the president is getting the National Security briefings in wherever he is. Hes getting the kinds of updates that he needs to get and if he needs to have a phone call, hell have that phone call. Hes coming back to washington today. To attend a meeting at the white house tomorrow before returning to Marthas Vineyard for a few more days. Maybe the two parties could sit down and i wont attack your president s vacation and i wont attack your president s vacation. The worst is when the clintons didnt go to Marthas Vineyard and took a vacation out west because wanted to look like the man of the people. Nothing says Family Vacation like how the push buttons. The other thing, the other big difference that you can see when its vacation for the president versus official business. You got the jacket but no tie on. It is like when hes on vacation. What should we know for the week ahead . Sure. Take your time. Builtin nav, heated seats for mom, dvd with Wireless Headphones for the kids and tons of room for the golf clubs golf clubs, and strollers. Shhh. I love this part. So what do you think . I think its everything we wanted. Great. Discover for yourself why more people find their perfect car at carmax. Carmax. Start here. Ugh. Heartburn. Did someone say burn . Try alka seltzer reliefchews. They work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. Mmm. Amazing. Yeah, i get that a lot. Alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. Enjoy the relief. But they have to use special care in keeping the denture clean. Dentures are very different to real teeth. Theyre about 10 times softer and may have surface pores where bacteria can multiply. Polident is designed to clean dentures daily. Its unique microclean formula kills 99. 99 of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains, cleaning in a better way than brushing with toothpaste. Thats why i recommend using polident. [ male announcer ] polident. Cleaner, fresher, brighter every day. Time to find out what our guests think they should know for the week ahead. Former governor zel miller, a democrat, but he spoke at the republican convention, i think it was in 96 and challenged Chris Matthews to a shoot out. He is now supporting michelle nun and her race to become senator in georgia and take that seat back for the democrats. I havent heard from him for a lot of years. Zel miller back in the democratic fold, at least for this election. Three years ago this past wednesday, a gentleman by the name of warren winestein was kidnapped in pakistan and a Development Worker and the focus on a lot of other things that we have needs to turn to him and the fact that we still have two american citizens being held captive in the middle east. So, i really like people to check out, bringwarrenhome. Com to lend your voice to bringing a citizen back home. In Failing Health and right now sort of a stand still between our government and the pakistani government as to bringing him home. Im sitting in front of governor jerry brown in california right now with something called the killed switch bill. What the bill can actually do is specific carve out Law Enforcement to actually turn off your phones during an emergency. But the fear is that it will be used during protests similar to what weve seen in ferguson. I have something for the week ahead. Tuesday night going back to my home state in massachusetts and moderating democratic primary debate there martha coakley, remember her, Steve Grossman and now the candidates Stone Hill College tuesday night if youre around. Check it out for more details and our facebook page, too. Well bring you highlights next week on the show. Also want you to know we have a new member here at up world headquarters. She is the daughter of our senior producer, casey schaefer. The little sister to her big brother. Couldnt be happier. Want to wish the entire family the best. I know theyre watching today because caseys already texted me. I want to thank emily cliff and political strategist michael jr. Tune in, again, next saturday and sunday at 8 00 a. M. Eastern time. Same show, same name and all that stuff and Melissa Harrisperry standing by. She is coming up next. Mega volume in an instant clump crusher 200 more volume with zero clumps and covergirl fusion a big blast of volume plus length. 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What are they thinking in ferguson. Melissa harrisperry and now 0