Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Hallie Jackson 20191024

On. The lawmaker that led the charge literally into a secure room, delaying testimony from a top pentagon official protesting the process. What about the substance . Were learning this morning that President Trump liked that whole thing after thanking republicans for having his back. These are warriors. These are people that fight with me all the time on the witch hunts. Weve got our news team lined up with both ends of pennsylvania avenue and around the world with other big news today. Garrett haake on capitol hill and Kristen Welker at the white house. Garrett, the next phase of the impeachment investigation. You have new reporting about when this may go public which is what republicans have been demanding. Yeah, thats right, hallie. Leaders in both parties and chambers want to see this gir entire inquiry done by the end of the year if thats possible and that means things have to get out of the house and over to the senate. Ideally in december. Working backwards from there, youre looking at november with a thanksgiving break, another break for lawmakers and you just start running out of days to get this done. What we know is theres another full week of closed door depositions still to come. There are depositions scheduled through next thursday. After that, we know that democrats want to try to move this into an open hearing process sooner rather than later. They would like to do open hearings in both the committees that are doing the investigating part of this intel, Foreign Relations and oversight, an then eventually youre going to have to do hearings in a Judiciary Committee to actually put pen to paper and mark down an article or more of impeachment. But you could poll 50 different people every couple hours up here on capitol hill and you would get different answers about when those open hearings can start. If republicans accomplished anything yesterday with their march into the scif, it was to get democrats talking more broadly about how and when they turn this into a public case against the president and move past the investigative phase they maintain has to be done behind closed doors to keep its integrity. At the top of the show congressman matt gaetz will join us in a little bit who led that charge. Im curious to talk with him on some of those points youre making. I want to ask you about Something Else an putting you on the spot im going to apologize but were learning that Lindsey Graham, the senator a close ally of the president , at 3 00 this afternoon is introducing a resolution, he wants to call on the house to vote to formally introduce an impeachment inquiry. This seems to be another move by a republican ally to try to defend the president , garrett. Can you tell us anything more about this or how you see this playing out politically here . I can only give you a little bit of informed speculation from having covered graham for as long as i have. This is someone who is close to the president and wants to keep that closeness and in doing so here on the impeachment issue, its the kind of thing that might give him more latitude to criticize the president on his Foreign Policy decisions of with i graham has been vocal in complaining about. I could see this move being not especially welcomed by grahams republican peers in the senate. Right. Over the last week or so Senate Republicans have tried even harder than weve seen previously to avoid taking questions on impeachment. They do not want to be pinned down, they do not want to be put on the record and dont want to be talking about the daytoday developments happening on the other side of the capitol on the house side. There are a lot of republican senator who would prefer to keep their powder dry when it comes to being potentially, almost assuredly at this point, impeachment jurors. And to put your name on a resolution now saying anything about what the house is doing, calls that impartiality into question in a way i could foresee republican senators not being comfortable with. Kristen welker, senator graham is still going to do it, right . The president is almost certainly going to like it. Because he has wanted his gop allies to get tougher here, even though at this point so much of the criticism from republicans is not on the substance as we talked about, is not on the alleged quid pro quo, its on the process and how this is going down. I think that that is the key point here, hallie. The move that you just mapped out by senator graham fits into this broader strategy that we are seeing play out by the white house, by republicans on capitol hill. They are trying to fight this battle on process. That is how theyre trying to win over the court of Public Opinion to say wait a minute, this has not been an open process. Thats why you saw that tactic yesterday on capitol hill a delay tactic. Important to point out eventually we anticipate and House Democrats are signaling they are going to start to hold hearings out in the open, but yesterday was really an attempt to say wait a minute, we disagree with how this is being carried out. So Stephanie Grisham, White House Press secretary on the airwaves today saying that the president liked what he saw. Im glad they did it. You know, again the dems have been doing everything behind closed doors and in secret and so its about time that somebody made a very bold stand, which i guess is a sitin, what he did and it was great and the point was well taken and i think that because now im hearing the dems have agreed in three weeks that theyre going to open these up to the public. So hallie, a little bit of background here. We have seen past hearings that have at least in their initial phases started out behind closed doors. We saw that during the benghazi hearing, for example. So again, House Democrats signaling that ultimately they will open up these hearings for public view. Allies of the president say they are concerned to some extent about this strategy and want to see the president firing back on substance and why he disagrees with bill taylors testimony. Bill taylor, of course, earlier this week drawing a link between withholding that aid to ukraine and launching those investigations into the president s political rivals. One more point, one ally making the argument to me it is critical right now that the president show discipline so that he isnt adding to the controversy. With one reality check on what stephanie grishp had to say, democrats have been saying for weeks they would make this public and do these public hearings, it was not related to the sort of move that you saw yesterday from those republican allies of the president. Kristen and garrett, thanks to you both. I want to bring in somebody else having a busy day, congressman, democrat from michigan, a member of speaker pelosis leadership team. Its great to have you back on the show. Thank you. Thank you very much. Pick your poison on where you want to start. Let me start with what congressman Eric Swalwell had to say this morning, there is some direct evidence that democrats have that key witnesses in this impeachment inquiry have been trying to talk to each other and that there is proof of this. Is that accurate to your understanding . Whats going on . Well, ive only heard those same reports. Obviously whiithhold judgment until the facts come in. Its consistent with the way this administration has tried to avoid responsibility and manage the process. Their loyalty, many of the people around the president , seem to be clearly to him and not to the constitution. I dont have any direct knowledge of that, but it is consistent with the way this administration has operated. You heard just a moment ago, i think, your you were probably plugged in, what the press secretary Stephanie Grisham had to say about what republicans did yesterday going into that secure room, delaying that witness testimony for a series of hours and drawing a link between that and the public hearings that democrats are hoping to move forward with. Talk about the timeline. When do you hope to have these public hearings. Is midnovember accurate and does it have anything to do with the republicans move yesterday . First of all, it has nothing. The schedule will have nothing to do with the stunt that they played yesterday. Weve always been very public about the fact that the inquiry will go through a number of phases, the phase that were in right now requires, you know, some discretion in order to make sure that process has integrity. By the way, its a process that has included all of the relevant members of the committees, democrats and republicans in the process. 47 of them, yes. Its a stunt intended to introduce more chaos because they believe the more chaotic this thing looks, the less credibility the outcome will have. Its always been the plan, of course, to have pluublic hearin and do this work in a public fashion. It is my view we should move with some hayhaze. We are getting the information we need to proceed, i think others may need more, but we are at the point where i think the publics view of this being fairly well formed. But what they did the other day, this was not some march on washington. This was a bunch following the orders of the person to whom they have the greatest allegiance, not their constituents, not the constitution, their greatest allegiance to a lawless president and they are going to pay a very heavy price, a long view of history will not treat them well. Im curious to see what congressman matt gaetz your colleague on the other side of the aisle who led that charge has to say to me. I want to be clear, youre saying you think it is realistic to hold public hearings by midnovember if not sooner, am i understanding that correctly . Thats my personal view and advocating for. Okay. Republican lawmakers are also sending this letter to chairman adam schiff of the Intel Committee talking about the whistleblower. This anonymous whistleblower who initially started this impeachment inquiry or triggered it at least, saying were surprised by your announcement that the committees will not receive testimony from the anonymous Intelligence Community employee whose complaint yishated the socalled impeachment inquiry. Chairman schiff has not made that announcement. Is the whistleblower not going to testify . Has that decision been made . I dont know that that decision has been made. Its important again, to keep it clear, what theyre trying to do is obfuscate the facts right in front of their faces. The whistleblower presented information which has been corroborated by all the testimony that weve seen and actually has been corroborated by the president of the United States himself. It may be an interesting question as to whether or not the whistleblower would testify, but the facts that the whistleblower put in front of the committee have been verified, have been corroborated. Again, this is just another example of them trying to avoid having a conversation about the facts because the facts are bad for them. They want to have a discussion about the process. Its the only thing in the book in law. If you cant argue the facts argue the process, pound on the table. In this case, storm the room. These are just tactics intended to make this place look chaotic so that the ultimate reality, the ultimate result will be somehow diminished. I dont think it will be but thats their goal. Yeah. I mean, listen, again, this is something that democrats and republicans have been talking about for a couple days now. I want to before i let you go ask you about Something Else happening at the capitol in 20 minutes from now. Of course the Memorial Service is beginning for your late colleague, congressman Elijah Cummings. I wonder if you could share a couple thoughts, the funeral tomorrow, president obama is set to speak, we understand. Tell me what this day and moment means for you . Its a very sad moment. A week ago today we woke up to the news that elijah who was gone, and for most of us its really personal. Its been interesting to me in talking to my colleagues, each one of us thought that we had this very close personal relationship with elijah, just between he and us, and it turns out that was the case for all of us. Its a loss for the country but for me right now, its a loss of a really good friend. Congressman dan killty, you will be at the services. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. I want to bring in a veteran of the white house and state department, tara, who served as White House Deputy Communications Director and undersecretary of state for Public Diplomacy and public affairs. Two notable things we just heard. Theres a lot. So number one, the timing of this, public hearings midnovember is like less than a month away if not sooner. Do you think thats the right strategy for democrats here . I think they need to keep moving along. Lets remember that the white house communication strategy here is very reactive now. Day to day they make up something new. The acting chief of staff puts out a statement, he floats it, doesnt go well, retracts. The ambassador taylor speaks it creates a lot of furor, the president pounds, the members you have to keep moving this along. You talk about pounding the table, congressman killty talked about pounding the table thats what republicans are doing because he says they dont have an argument to be made on substance. Do you think thats fair and triggered the gop stunt or sitin, whatever you want to call it . The substance is going to drive and eclipse the process here. Bill taylor is someone i worked with. He worked for me actually at the u. S. Institute of peace. Americans are going to look or hear from bill taylor and theyre going to say wow, this is really the American Hero of the story. Hes a straightforward, blunt, honest incredible man who gets sent to ukraine and sees this unbelievable chaos unfolding. Quickly, john thune, the number two republican in the senate, said the pitting out of taylors testimony is not a good one. Mitch mcconnell contradicted the president about a phone call the president said he had with him. Do you see these small cracks as being potentially something that could grow into a bigger problem for the president . I think members are having a hard time on content now. And you can only pound process so long. Yeah. Ukraine is a friend of the United States. Russia not so much. And until we get our head around the content i have a feeling the process will be a side show. Tara, i appreciate you coming on. We have so much more to get to. Another democrat who has appeared to qualify for next months debate thanks to a poll that shows a wider than expected lead for somebody not named joe biden. Were putting the numbers into context next. Plus the republican stream in, storming, sitin, whatever you call it of a closed door deposition, making these headlines today. The man who literally led that charge, florida congressman matt gaetz who will be with us in a minute as we keep our eye on a solemn capitol hill, washington getting ready in 15 minutes to pay respects to the late congressman Elijah Cummings who will lie in state today. Well have more. State today. Well have more. Of excuses to avoid screening for colon cancer. Im not worried. It doesnt run in my family. I can do it next year. No rush. Cologuard is the noninvasive option that finds 92 of colon cancers. You just get the kit in the mail, go to the bathroom, collect your sample, then ship it to the lab. Theres no excuse for waiting. Get screened. Ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. Covered by medicare and most major insurers. Corrupt president in our nations history. When i called for his impeachment two years ago, washington insiders and every candidate for president said it was too soon. But i believed then, as i do now, that doing the right thing was more important than political calculations. And over eight Million People agreed. We proved that there is no challenge that americans cant meet when we work together. Im tom steyer, and i approve this message. Come on lets hide in the attic. No. In the basement. Why cant we just get in the running car . Are you crazy . Lets hide behind the chainsaws. Smart. Yeah. Ok. If youre in a horror movie, you make poor decisions. Its what you do. This was a good idea. Shhhh. Im being quiet. Youre breathing on me if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. Its what you do. Lets go to the cemetery that could allow hackers devices into your home. Ys and like all doors, theyre safer when locked. Thats why you need xfinity xfi. With the xfi gateway, devices connected to your homes wifi are protected. Which helps keep people outside from accessing your passwords, credit cards and cameras. And people inside from accidentally visiting sites that arent secure. And if someone trys well let you know. Xfi advanced security. If its connected, its protected. Call, click, or visit a store today. The lineup for next months democratic debate here on msnbc is getting bigger this morning with Amy Klobuchar becoming the ninth democrat to appear to make the cut hitting 3 in the new quinnipiac poll out this morning. That poll painting a different picture of the race than some others we saw this week. This one with Elizabeth Warren leading joe biden with 28 support and news on both of those campaign fronts this morning. Lets talk about it with msnbc National Political correspondent steve kornacki, road warrior von hillard in New Hampshire and mike memory with his reporting on the Biden Campaign. Break down the poll numbers. Why are they looking so different from what weve seen . Were in the pick your poll season i think of the democratic race, depending on which candidate you like we got a poll for you. You mentioned the brand new one out this morning, quinn nipiac, this is by far the most favorable to Elizabeth Warren that has come out since that debate. We should mention quinnipiac, warren has been consist will doing a little better in their polls than she has in some others. See her with a 7point lead, the best shes done in a quinnipiac poll. Sanders at 15 . Pete buttigieg 3 . Klobuchar, 3 . This new quinnipiac poll with 24 hours before, the cnn poll, what did they find . 15point lead they found for joe biden over warren. They had biden gaining significant ground off of that debate. Again, sanders back there in double digits. When you get sort of a wildly different polls like this, best thing to do, average them all together. Here is probably your best look at what the democratic race look likes right now. Biden a couple weeks ago looked like warren was moving into a tie with him, more polls since then favorable to biden than warren. Thus nearly a 7point lead for biden nationally over Elizabeth Warren. You see Bernie Sanders, a lot of questions heading into that debate if his health scare was going to cause his poll numbers to drop. They look stable. You see buttigieg, hes been there in fourth for a while and you see not in this poll average but the recent polls, the fact that klobuchar hitting 3 not a huge number, that is better than shes been doing and enough to put her in the debate. There does seem to be a small but significant bounce for her off those debates. So somebody we knew who was going to be in the debate is somebody you are in covering today on the road covering today, Elizabeth Warren. Talk through what youre hearing from the senators campaign related to where she is right now. The senator going to be on the campus of dar mouth college. When looking at the pom numbers steve was talking about, she is doing well among the population younger than 35 which is why she is here on this campus in New Hampshire. Recent polls out of New Hampshire have kept her here at the top in this state specifically. I want to reference two conversations i had over the last 24 hours. One was with larry, just 25 miles down the road from here who i met this summer and called him up last night and said where do you find yourself right now, he is looking right now at standing behind joe biden. He said he was formerly a republican voter and he said that what joe biden has proved over this last month is resolve, an ability to take on donald trump. At the same time here on the campus, there is a student here liam davidson, a senior history student, i asked him about larrys comments and also the Biden Campaigns view that joe biden has been able to show that resolve over the last month and would be that what you would call electable candidate against donald trump and liam, the student on campus, told me that what his conversations inside the classroom are, along with friends off campus, are about a big picture, more than just going against donald trump. Donald trump is a system of American History and that folks need to focus on candidates like Elizabeth Warren and what he said was big structural change which is that message that well expect to hear from Elizabeth Warren on campus this yooaftern. One of the things we have not seen from senator warren is any comment on new reporting about allies of the former Vice President joe biden pushing apparently to try to form a super pac. Weve heard from senator Bernie Sanders on that. Criticizing that move, of course, given his focus on building grassroots support. I understand you have new reporting specifically on joe biden, this money game, where these advisors are. What do you got . Hallie, this is so interesting because before joe biden even got into the race he said he would not allow, endorse, encourage any outside allies to create a super pac. And in the earliest days of his campaign when he launched when with some unknown democrat strategist filed paperwork to form one they pushed back saying they would not embrace super pac funding in this race. Thats a litmus test as you see from the pushback from Bernie Sanders and his campaign. What im sensing in talking to biden allies and the Biden Campaign is a softening in that position. I think thats rooted in the real concern you see that hes spending a lot more time now on the campaign trail doing these big money events evens as his fundraising has trailed off. They see the money coming at them not just from other democrats but the Trump Campaign and theres concern and doing the Due Diligence to make sure they can be prepared in the general election. Biden world is a big universe and its unclear who might be point person on this but a lot of allies out there who would be in position to help biden with an outside effort like this should they give the green light. Does seem like it would make him vulnerable for criticism from Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and others. Yeah. Mike, von, and steve, appreciate you being with us. Thank you all. Check out steves new podcast, article ii inside impeachment, our friend of the show takes a deep dive into bill taylors deposition talking about whether what we learned from the Opening Statement supports the theory of quid pro quo. Listen and subscribe for free wherever you get your podcasts. Coming up, more on television on this show, including congressman matt gaetz, the man who led that gop disruption of the deposition yesterday, on what they accomplished, live from florida. Well have more on congress saying goodbye to one of the democratic partys most influential figures. Remembering congressman Elijah Cummings next. Man Elijah Cummings next. I thought i was managing my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis. But i realized something was missing. Me. The thought of my symptoms returning was keeping me from being there for the people and things i love most. So, i talked to my doctor and learned humira can help get, and keep, uc under control when other medications havent worked well enough. And it helps people achieve control that lasts so you could experience few or no symptoms. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. 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You are looking on the other side of your screen live pictures from capitol hill with the tribute to the late congressman Elijah Cummings set to start any minute now. We are watching for the hearse to arrive soon. He will become the first ever africanamerican to receive the honor of lying in state. Rosa parks laid in honor thats a different designation since theyre civilians. I want to bring in nick, member of the maryland house of delegates and friend of the congressmans. Thank you for joining us on what i know is a difficult day for you. Yes, hallie, thanks for bringing us on. Tell me a little bit about your relationship with cummings . He was a giant especially in baltimore for people there and how he made a difference in your life . Well, the congressman, hes just a special person. I mean many people are coming out talking about him as a friend, him as a mentor, him as an adviser and its true. I mean he was he literally embodied the name elijah, a person who was bigger than his seat. He never took himself serious, never took the seat to his head. I constantly say that he wasnt for the people, he was the people. I mean you walk around Baltimore City with congressman Elijah Cummings, no matter the demographics, folks would come over and be admired by who he was and what he meant for the city. Its a huge loss for me personally, for the city, for the nation, for the world. The remembrances at the capitol are today and again, he is set to lie in state today. Tomorrow is the Funeral Service in which we have learned will be hearing from former president s obama and clinton, House Speaker nancy pelosi among others. What do you expect the message, particularly from president obama to be about congressman couplings . Wh cummings . What are you listening for . He literally embodied and epitomized what it means for public service. For someone with a tremendous amount of gifts, to give of themselves, to better the public in ensuring we have a more perfect democracy, and right now in our country, what were up against in washington, d. C. , what we know his last fights were, his last actions on the job were, i think that its going to be a resounding message to say, elijah, well done, but more importantly, to all of his mentorees and colleagues for the nation its critical to ensure his fight will never die in vain and thats going to be the resounding message that you hear from the likes of former president s clinton and obama. Nick mosby, member of the maryland house of delegates, friend of Elijah Cummings, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Were going to keep an eye on the events unfolding at the capitol and watching Everything Else happening at the capitol including this morning the New York Times Editorial Board asking this question. Why did republicans storm it . Heres one possible answer from our nbc news First Read Team because the gop is running on empty. Our political unit writing, if you want to know why House Republicans decided wednesday to disrupt the deposition into the impeachment inquiry, its probably because President Trump and the gop are running out of defenses. Heres congresswoman Jackie Speier. What happened yesterday was a High School Prank by a bunch of 50yearold white men. The republicans are whining because the president is whining and frankly i think they did what they did yesterday because the president was whining that they werent fighting for him hard enough. The president liked the whole thing. Watch this. I think they showed full support for the president. He was happy to see it happen. He was very supportive of it, as he should be. Republican who led that charge is joining me florida congressman matt gaetz sits on the judiciary and Armed Services committee and joining us from florida. Great to have you back on the show, thank you. Thanks, hallie. My ifb wasnt clear. Did Jackie Speier identify my race and gender in the context of my activities as a member of congress yesterday . I think you heard her sound bite. Way tonight give you the chance to respond. Go ahead. No. Did she say we were a bunch of white men . What does the fact that we are white men have to do with our desire to represent the millions of constituents we serve. I was deeply offended. When Jackie Speier walks in i dont say a white woman comes in. This is the type of identity politics from the left that seems to permeate any substantive or procedural arguments they make and its sickening to me thats how we would be thought of. People we serve are diverse and its just really kind of sickening. Let me talk about the substantive piece of it then. There are two pieces of this. By the way, congressman, i want to talk about turkey and syria so i will ask you to leave me time for that in this discussion start with that. What are your thoughts on turkey and syria. We tease you, we started on this conversation on the idea that republicans walked into this secure area of the capitol yesterday, including some republicans who could have just gone in and participated as members of those committees as the rules allowed. What was the point of this . Was this really anything more than a stunt . The point 20to highlight the true due process and inequities damaging the congress and the institution of the presidency. I dont think democrats have answered the question yet, why is donald trump getting less due process than president clinton got or that Richard Nixon got. That was our objective. Im on the Judiciary Committee where chairman nadler but were showing a picture, i dont know if you can see a return, some of the members of Congress Walking in, your republican colleagues, who could be in the room anyway, 47 are on the committees able to go in and participate on depositions and many have participated in nie i depositions. Im speaking for myself. I tried to go in last week as a member of the Judiciary Committee and thats a reasonable thing to do, on september 12th, jerry nadler, chairman of the Judiciary Committee, said i am hereby launching the impeachment inquiry, the impeachment investigation. So i think the bizarre element here is that you would exclude members of the committee that launched the impeachment inquiry from the Factual Development that adam schiff is trying to do in secret, aided by selective leaks and then misrepresentations about the whistleblower, his contact with the whistleblower, and the transcript from President Trump and president zelensky. I think thats why we were trying to get in there, but like i open speak for myself. I should be allowed in that room as a member of the Judiciary Committee, Armed Services committee and they wouldnt let us in. It begs the question what are they hiding. Youre speaking for yourself. You are a member of judiciary and Armed Services. None of those committees are conducting these depositions. Its intel i dont know that. I dont know that. No. It is a fact. Its not a fact. Go back and look at the 12th hearing of the Judiciary Committee. You cannot misstate that as a fact. How can you tell me its a fact that my committee is not involved when it was the Judiciary Committee who launched the investigation. You have not subpoenaed these individuals for a deposition. That is a fact. No. Youre shifting ground now. Right. First you say were not involved and then you say we didnt issue the subpoenas. Those are two different things. We are involved because our chairman launched the inquiry. That is a fact. Sure. I want to let you have your say here but i want to find out why you think the rules do not apply to you as theyre laid out, to you, congressman gaetz. The rules oh, i do think the rules apply to all of us but the rules would typically require the speaker of the house i shouldnt say the rules, the precedent that was applied to president clinton and president nixon, would necessitate some articulation of the rules so we have an understanding of what the due process requirements will be. We see democrats now sacrificing due process on the altar of their hatred for donald trump. Im not asking about that should all americans. Im not asking about precedent. Im asking about the rules. Thats really important. Why do you think youre above that . This is the point of why you went in the scif. Im not above the rules but when the Judiciary Committee chairman launches the inquiry, when the speaker of the house wont adopt rules, then it creates an environment where the democrats just sort of make it up as they go along. Lets kick some committees out, let some committees in. Its all because they want to reshuffle the legislative deck because theyre humiliated that they lost the russia investigation unequivocally with the American People, adam schiff lied to the American People when he said he had more than circumstantial evidence that President Trump was engaged in a criminal conspiracy with russia and this is a way to take some folks on the Judiciary Committee like myself, like andy biggs, out of the next hand because we were effective in making the case that democrats were overstating the facts. You are very clear, congressman, you are unhappy with the process and it should be noted that the Judiciary Committee has not actually subpoenaed these witnesses to be deposed. We launched the inquiry. But about the substance of this, congressman, because i havent heard you say anything since bill taylor testified yes or no, is it okay for any politician to trade military aid for political favors . Look, im not going to get into the specifics of the taylor deposition because i wasnt present for it. Im asking what is you are. The lead into your question i want to talk about bill taylors deposition. Sure. When we dont have the benefit the question do you think its appropriate it. Of the questions asked. I do not believe it would be appropriate for any politician to link military aid to a assistance in a future election. No. I dont think thats what the president did. Why not. I think the president was right to follow up on the work of bill barr to try to identify the corrupt origins of the russia investigation. It was a Ukraine Court that ruled that the ukraine imper miserably interfered in the u. S. Election and that is a sufficient basis for the president to ask for cooperation with the attorney general on that matter. So a couple things on that. Im going to ask my control room to give me more time, i want to make sure we get to Foreign Policy put what you are saying is significant not about the piece or ukraine in 2016, because that is not a proven theory wait in the crane. You just keep blowing through these things like theyre facts but theyre not. Just stop mischaracterizing stuff. I have to fact check you in real time. I want to be clear you said it would not be appropriate for anybody to trade military aid for help in a future political election. Yes. It appears from the testimony that we have seen reported publicly from the witnesses here from the selective witnesses provided by adam schiff that arent subject to crossexamination. Like youre playing the game here. Youre playing the game where they selectively leak stuff that is not subject to crossexamination. Okay. Rigorous review. Check against documents and timelines. By the way, when they had to do this in the open in the russia investigation, with mueller, with lewandowski, democrats looked terrible. Now theyre trying to do things in secret so we can have interviews so you can cherry pick elements of leaked testimony and ask me about them when i wasnt in there, you didnt see the testimony, and more importantly were unable to see how those statements hold up against crossexamination so the substance analysis is very difficult if were not able to have some standardized due process that is prediblgtsble and provides clarity. Did you get a chance to see bill taylors Opening Statement that was released . Do you think he made that up . I would love to have the chance to cross examine taylor on those claims or even to observe my colleagues cross coming taylor. But this is the new adam schiff strategy. Your colleagues can cross examine him. Your republican colleagues have been in the room. I dont have the questions and sneens you dont trust your republicans on these committees . I want to see the consequence of their work right. Its not they put out their Opening Statement we engage in crossexamination, you want to ask me about the opening, but i dont have the benefit of the crossexamination to be able to test the allegations made in the Opening Statement. And that is all by design. It is not an accident that you and i are having this interview on terms that are very favorable to the adam schiff theory of the case because when John Ratcliffe asked questions that i think poke holes in the allegations that taylor made, we dont get the benefit of those. They werent leaked and they werent in front of the American People and thats the problem. I want to get to turkey and syria as i have said repeatedly. Well turn to that. The democrats as congressman kildee said on the show, i know you didnt hear it, they plan to hold the hearings in a matter of weeks and i want to be clear about that for you and our viewers. I cant wait. I know you sit on the Armed Services committee and this is important to you. There have been Significant Developments in turkey and syria over the last several days. President trump has lifted the sanctions on turkey. And i want to know, if you believe that was the appropriate or correct move given that we havent seen significant action from turkey at this point on that ceasefire . Do you think it was too early or the right way to go . I dont have the benefit of all of the insight the president does in making those decisions. I will say i do think there needs to be consequences for turkeys actions not just in syria but the desire to purchase the aircraft system from russia. In a lot of ways beyond just syria turkey is not acting like an ally of the United States of america and they should not get all of the benefits that allies get when they dont act like an ally. That doesnt mean that we should keep tens of americans between armies of tens of thousands who have been fighting one another since the end of world war ii and will likely be fighting each other for quite some time in the future. Those are tough words for turkey. Do you believe their presence as a part of nato should be reconsidered . Yes, i do. I do believe that we need to rigorously review whether or not we should commits u. S. Service members to go and fight and die in the event that turkey is attacked when turkey is engaged in mischief beyond just their region. Turkey is engaged in mischief in Eastern Europe and latin america. Turkey is a destabilizing force in venezuela because theyre taking a lot of gold out and using it to prop up the lira and then that becomes a way for the regime in venezuela to maintain power with turkish support. I think that in a variety of ways they arent act like an ally and we should not continue to treat them that way. Have you shared that perspective with the president and has he seemed open . I dont give read outs of my conversation with the president. The president is well aware of my views on turkey and the middle east broadly. I appreciate you spending time with us on the show as always. Thank you. I appreciate it. President trump talking about syria declares his policy there to be a big success. Were going live on the ground to the region. Our Richard Engel is there. The rest of you aour team as we. How permanent that ceasefire may be on the ground. A new investigation into commerce secretary wilbur ross. The National Archives looking into his use of personal emails for official government business. In Court Filings the doj said the Commerce Department should not be required to search through the secretarys personal accounts even though searches found four accounts with 280 work related email chains over a year and a half. As many as eight current and former Trump Administration officials have been reported to use personal email at some point for business, including the president s daughter, her husband and Senior Adviser Jared Kushner as well. And save in more ways than one. For small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. Shop everything home at wayfair. Com johnsbut were also a cancer fighting, hiv controlling, joint replacing, and depression relieving company. From the day youre born we never stop taking care of you. Mornings were made for Better Things than Rheumatoid Arthritis or Psoriatic Arthritis. When considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz xr, a oncedaily pill for adults with moderate to severe Rheumatoid Arthritis or active Psoriatic Arthritis for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. It can reduce pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. Xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections like tb; dont start xeljanz if you have an infection. Taking a higher than recommended dose of xeljanz for ra can increase risk of death. Serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened. As have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, and changes in lab results. Tell your doctor if youve been somewhere fungal infections are common, or if youve had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. Dont let another morning go by without asking your doctor about xeljanz xr. So moves in syria today after President Trumps cease fire announcement. The one that we shared with you yesterday on this show. Russia is beginning patrols in Northern Syria as part of a new agreement with turkeys president erdogan and shipping more manpower and military equipment there ahead of bigger plans in the works for next week. We heard from republican senator Lindsey Graham with this warning. Russia, turkey, and syria cannot patrol this area. Thats a death blow to the kurds. I told the president last night that the last people in the world that i trust to take care of the kurds would be turkey, russia, and assad. Nbcs chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel is live in Northern Syria and joining us now. Richard, is your reporting fighting still happening near where you are . What can you tell us . So, this talk about a cease fire, that a ceasefire is in place and yesterday many lives. Theres still fighting going on right now in three particular villages, closeup fighting with kurds, rifles to their shoulders firing, dragging away the wounded. We have picture of it. Trying to get pictures out right now of people fleeing the area. There is still fighting going on right now to be clear. A lot of the fighting, and this is going to be something thats going to emerge and become more and more important as this conflict dlags on, and it is dragging on, and it will drag on, is the use by turkey of these semi official, semiacknowledged radical militia groups. Theyre the ones doing a lot of the Ground Fighting, accused by the president s own envoy of carrying out war crimes and atrocitie atrocities. A lot of these militias include former members of isis and al qaeda. You have nato, turkey, the country that the president just lifted sanctions on using former isis and al qaeda members to do Ground Fighting including atrocities, including u. S. Officials in the Trump Administration say that look like war crimes as the sanctions are being lifted. Richard, i think our coms are still okay. I want to ask you what you make of what youve heard from the president s republican allies on capitol hill, some of them defending him, some of them frankly concerned about where this is going. Reporter well, they should be concerned about where this is going, not just for the Kurdish People who think that they are facing the ultimate betrayal, they allied with the United States, they fought, they lost 11,000 people, created an autonomous zone, helped to defeat the isis caliphate, killed tens of thousands of isis members. In return theyre being driven off their land and killed by Turkish Forces being occupied by the russians, seeing the assad regime return. Theyre facing a true disaster for their people, for their families. They absolutely should be concerned. But they should also be concerned about what this means for the rest of the world, how the world is seeing this. The world is seeing that the u. S. Doesnt stick by its friends and Vladimir Putin comes in and hes telling the world he does stick by his friends, his word is his bond. He stuck with assad from the very beginning even when assad was accused around the world of using chemical weapons. Thats what the world will see. Richard, always a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you so much. A lot more to get to including congressman alexandria oh cac i dont cortez grilling Mark Zuckerberg about whether facebook should allow candidates to lie in ads. So you wont take down lies or wont take down lies . Thats a simple yes or no. Right away, called my mom, called my sisters. Im from cameroon, congo, and. The bantu people. I had ivory coast, and ghana. Togo. I was grateful. I just felt more connected. To who i am. Greater details. Richer stories. And now with health insights. Get your dna kit at ancestry. Com. And i recently had hi, ia heart attack. It changed my life. But im a survivor. 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The maroon dress is congressman Elijah Cummings wife maya. Shes surrounded by his families, friends. As the shot begins to pull out, you may see the hearst carrying him. He will be taken to Sanctuary Hall for a private ceremony. Hell lie in state in the rotunda, the first africanamerican to receive that honor. A solemn morning on capitol hill today. Its also been quite a morning on capitol hill all week long, with a lot of action happening, not just with the impeachment inquiry but also on the tech front. Thats because after weeks of private dinners and meetings with lawmakers, Mark Zuckerbergs Charm Offensive didnt seem to impress so much the House Financial Services committee. The facebook founder endured six hours, six, of questioning including this exchange with congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez thats gone a bit viral. Check it out. Would i be able to run advertisements on facebook targeting republicans in primaries saying they voted for the Green New Deal . If youre not Fact Checking political advertisements, im trying to understand the bounds. I think lying is bad. So you wont take down lies or you will take down lies . Its a Pretty Simple yes or no. Jolene kent joins us from capitol hill. What are you hearing from your sources in and around Facebook World, zuckerberg world. Reporter Facebook World is very happy with how Mark Zuckerberg testified. They felt there was no missteps, he was relaxed and ready to go. He was able to answer questions for six hours. Members of congress not so satisfied as you could see from representative ocasiocortez. Theres also questions about whether or not facebook should be launching a cryptocurrency. The major news is that he would not launch libra, as its called, unless all u. S. Regulators are behind it and sign off on it. Looking ahead to the 2020 election, zuckerberg says facebook is better prepared. He says theyre better prepared for the threats that are to come. Again, those threats continue to evolve. Yesterday definitely a checking the box. Facebook now has testified here in congress for i believe about 17 hearings is what the team is saying at facebook. Theyre trying to answer questions. Hes certainly not out of the woods yet, hallie. Theres 47 state attorneys general who are going to be investigating facebook now for antitrust. So a long way to go forward for zuckerberg. Jo ling kent, safe travels back home. Thank you. Thank you for joining us for another busy hour of msnbc live. Happy to turn it over to Chris Jansing in new york. Chris, im going to head over to the white house and ill see you from there later this afternoon. Thanks so much. Im Chris Jansing in for craig melvin at msnbc headquarters in new york. We begin with what youre seeing, a farewell to an icon. The casket of Elijah Cummings about to international statuary hall. Hell be the first africanamerican congressman to lie in state, bestowed on just a few dozen statesmen, military leaders and president s throughout our countrys history. A son of share croppers, a son of baltimore. Cummings is being remembered for his decades of service. There we see the military honor guard. His casket will sit just 75 feet away from the statue of another civil rights icon, rosa parks, also mere steps away from the statue of former confederate president jefferson davis. That would stand as a stark reminder of our countrys past and of congressman