Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20200709

Announced they will not send all of their students back to the campuses this fall. So what is he doing here exactly . Hes got the cdc now spinning and saying it will come out with new guidelines, relaxing guidelines around school. Theres always, with this president , an element of politics here. What are they . Thats right, willie. For weeks and even a couple of months, the sort of hot button political cultural wedge issue was use of masks. The president defying all Available Health data, the recommendation of his own medical team and Public Health professionals and not wear a mask. Even in the face of rising elements that a mask reduces the transmission of the virus. And weve seen fellow republicans break with the president and endorse them, other prominent elected officials. Seems the next battleground is going to be schools. In the last 48 hours a remarkable assault from the president making this political push suggesting without evidence that del democratic governors and mayors and other local officials are trying to keep schools closed to hurt him politically. Weve sort of grown numb to this because weve seen the president do it, its remarkable the way he broke with the cdc, his own agency, i disagree with them, theyre being too tough. According to our reporting the white house is looking at their own guidelines along with cdc revisions. This is about him believing he needs schools to open. We all need schools to open, my kids need schools to open, but in his eyes its towards november because its a sign of normalcy and thinking the economy cant reopen unless w k working parents can go back to work because their kids are back in school. The president specifically said he will cut off funding to those schools that dont reopen. Just a blanket threat to schools across the country even as we see coronavirus spiking in many states across the south and in the sun belt. Obviously he doesnt have the power to cut off federal funding most funding we know comes from states and local governments and they run their School Systems but is that something being entertained, if you dont open your school, you may suffer because of it . The president brandished this threat yesterday, pretty to extraordinary. Weve been pushing the white house as to what it means, they say its still in the works. Certainly theres federal funding involved and schools trying to reopen are going to need more federal funding. Theres a sense when Congress Gets back here in a couple weeks thats an issue they need to address as well. Its not clear the president will follow through. In early stages the president made similar threats to who would funding but it didnt go anywhere. Hes drawing a line here. Hes making it the next political fight and trying to put the democrats in a box and doing it with an eye towards november. This comes during a week as his campaign tries to reboot itself. Three weeks after that disastrous comeback rally in tulsa where he faced a sea of empty seats. Hes back out there, tomorrow, florida, his first in person fundraiser. And saturday he makes his return to the Campaign Rallies with one saturday night in new hampshire. Whether or not the president has the power to do it the president did say, imagine this, were going to cut off funding to Public Schools if you dont rush your kids back in during the pandemic. Arizona, florida, South Carolina among those states struggling mightily right now, leading the world in rapidly growing numbers of coronavirus cases. The New York Times reports the outbreak in the sun belt is worse than any country. No country in the world where confirmed coronavirus cases are growing as rapidly as it is in those states. The sun belt has become the global virus capital. Looking at several states in particular. Florida reported nearly 10,000 new cases, more than 220,000 positive cases statewide. And the test Positivity Rate has been above 14 for a week. Texas hit highs yesterday with more than 9,600 hospitalized. 15 of the tests in the state have come back positive, the highest rate since the start of the pandemic. And arizona announced it is delaying the start of its school year as the number of coronavirus cases spike across the state. More than 3,500 new cases have been reported there in just the last 24 hours. Meanwhile, the mayor of phoenix says, her city is in a crisis situation. The federal government has provided a testing surge in other states such as texas and florida. I request that they do the same in phoenix. When you see the positive rate that steven just mentioned above 25 . We are only testing the sickest of the sick. We need more help with testing right now. We also need more medical personnel. We are stretched right now and our hospital ceos tell me its going to get worse. This weekend i went to a testing site where people waited over 8 hours. I saw a man who was sweating and struggling to breathe try to refill his gas tank because he ran out of fuel on our city street. If anyone looks at that and doesnt want to do better for him, then i just dont understand it. We need that testing surge, in particularly our latino areas of phoenix. We are in a crisis right now. The resources in testing have not reached every part of our state and for months now we have been asking for additional testing. Time has come to deliver. For months youve been asking for months literally for this . In anticipation of the situation youre in . Phoenix is the largest city in the country to have not received one of the large testing sites from the federal government. Even in april the houston mayor was announcing everyone who wanted a test could get one. Whereas we were struggling for our critical workers and sickest patients to get testing. At the time i asked why they had such a better result than we did and learned the federal government had set up mass testing sites. At the time they told me we didnt have the number of cases to justify it. But unquestionably we do now with the highest positive rate in the country. We went for our first 50,000 cases in arizona it took five months and then it doubled within two weeks. The rate of growth is staggering and scary. A plea from the mayor of phoenix, arizona. Joining us Infectious Disease physician and medical director at the Boston University of medicine, an msnbc medical contributor. Doctor, great to see you again, this must be frustrating for you to watch because youve been with us for four months now saying testing is the key, testing is the key, testing is the key. We have to identify who has coronavirus, we can isolate them, get our arms around this. Why now as we sit on july the 9th cannot the city of phoenix get enough tests . Willie, thanks for having me. Youre right. I think partly whats frustrating is we saw the country go through this already in the northeast. We know where the issue would arise. The issue is not just in the availability of tests because people are waiting a long period of time to get tested. Then when they get tested you hear from florida to georgia to arizona theyre waiting for a long time for those results. If you dont know that youre sick and youre not quarantining or theyre not able to Contact Trace you, youre in the communities spreading the disease. You heard the mayor speak about theyre seeing exponential rise, that continues. That becomes a corner stone. I heard your conversation with Jonathan Lemire, the conversation about opening schools. The evidence Shows One Third or half has likely to get the infection, children are, but some do and end up in the hospital. We have the multisystem inflammatory disease in children we dont understand the pathology of it yet. Then you look around the world, the risk of transmission, the countries that have done some small opening or altered opening of schools, its tied into the prevalence of disease in those communities. So if we want to open schools the mayor thing we have to do is drive the cases down. Thats the thing, the president is talking about a national reopening of schools even as each School District has different numbers of cases and the crisis is more acute in some places than others. So as you listen to the cdc saying it will change its guidelines after the president protested them and relax them, make them less restrictive as the president called them. What do you make of that where the cdc is stepping back saying maybe we will make it easier to reopen schools . Just stepping back a little bit, right, talking about the elements that go into a Successful School opening. It would require all of us to do our part with Community Transmission but then we need the physical engineering, having the ability to physically distance the kids, social engineering, do we put teachers and students into pods . How do we get the supplies and how do we link things like d disinfection gloves, and then to link everything to a Public Health infrastructure that is ready to followup on outbreaks if they happen in those settings. We all want to open schools, its the correct thing to do socially for our children, for their mental, physical, social development, but doing it without the correct preparation, if you open schools and youre doing it without the preparations, youre looking at a Public Health disaster, timed exactly for october and november. I think its short sided for the president to say what he said. When i see that tweet from the president to the cdc, its a bit more damaging than what it appears at first plusblush. I think the School Reopening versus Public Health is the new false dichotomy, youre asked to choose one or the other rather than realizing you need the resources to be open. And you have to have a plan to reopen the schools safely. Not just say reopen or im cutting off funding. Another bit of alarming news were seeing is reports that nursing homes, hospitals, are facing a shortage of masks, gowns and disposable gloves, ppe. Doctors in houston reportedly having told to reuse single use n95 masks for up to 15 days. The New York Times notes some hospitals in florida are handing out only loose fitting surgical masks to workers treating presumed asymptomatic patients. Vice president mike pence yesterday dismissed those reports instead encouraging reusing the supplies. Received encouraging reports, strong supplies of ppe in hospitals, Hospital Capacity remains strong. We also are issuing renewed guidance on preservation and reuse of ppe. Were Encouraging Health care workers to begin now to use some of the best practices that we learned in other parts of the country to preserve and to reuse the ppe supplies. Doctor, a question again just like the one i asked you on testing, how are we back here again . Ppe as we know in the early days in new york city, especially, new jersey was short, you had emergency room and icu physicians reusing the personal protective equipment, but here we are again. How did we get here . And here in boston in all of the northeast we suffered the same crunch. The only thing we had going for us when we were looking at this and coming up with strategies across the northeast of using the same n95 sometimes for an entire week, at least for an entire shift and trying to do the technologies that allowed disinfection of the masks to try to reuse them. At least we had the hope there might be some manufacturing benefits by the time were here. The big issue is still n95s remain a shortage across the country. And the manufacturing capability to help provide for the increase need for those in anticipation of the fall are still not ready. Were still looking at supply chains not able to apply that. I think a big reason were here is we did not make the investments in that manufacturing capacity to the level we needed. We did fine, we have ventilators but a response takes continuous investment and then furnishing of any new shortages that have come along. N95s are shortages we have known and ppe are shortages we have. The reason were here we dont have a national capacity. I feel like a broken record. I think at this point states need to come together to make that collective, come up with that plan because were not getting that from the federal government. It remains a state by state scramble, as you say. Doctor, great to have you with us as always. Lets bring in washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay, and reverend al sharpton and sam stein. Lets get specific on the president s and schools. Yesterday he wrote, in germany, denmark, norway, sweden and many other countries schools are open with no problems. The democrats think it would be bad for them politically if u. S. Schools open before the november election. But it is important for the children and the families. He writes, may cut off funding if not open. The president also tweeted. I disagree with the cd on their very tough and expensive guidelines for opening schools. While they want them open, theyre asking schools to do very impractical things, ill be meeting with them, three exclamation points. The Washington Post reports, what is found too restrictive is eliminating sharing of toys and books. Heres Vice President mike pence. The president said we dont want the guidance to be too tough. Thats why next week the cdc is going to be issuing a new set of tools five different documents giving more clarity on the guidance going forward. So you had yesterday, as i just read, the president of the United States threatening schools with funding. He cant do that obviously on his own but he can veto new congressional funding for schools if he was so inclined. This is an extraordinary step as Jonathan Lemire reported to bring the politics of reelection and to suggest the democratic governors and mayors are keeping children out of schools therefore keeping parents out of the work place so they can prevent donald trump from winning reelection. Look, i dont think theres a single parent, whether a blue or red state, whether they vote democrat or republican, that doesnt want their child to go back to school in september if it can be done safely. Everybody is trying to work, right. We all know what its like to be home with small children. The question is, can it be done safely . To some extent the president is right when he tweets they have done it in the Northern European countries without a problem. There have not been big spikes related to schools in places like denmark and germany since the children went back to school. But heres the catch. They did it after a huge amount of deliberation and with exactly the kind of restrictions that the cdc is suggesting schools implement. So its costly, they need more not less funding in order to put the restrictions in place and they need to follow closely protocols which have been hammered out in order to do things like have the desks 6 feet apart, not having the kids sharing toys, not having the kids eating commonly in some places. Having the parents arriving at staggered times. All of that costs money to implement. In some schools in denmark, they have put in extra bathrooms so there are extra hand washing facilities. Theyve made a huge effort to do it safely. I think what the cdc is suggesting is very much in line with what the European Countries have done in order to do it successfully. America has the advantage of a road map of other countries that have done it but dont take the road map and rip it up and throw it out the window because it wont be done safely. As the president announced schools must be open, mayor de blasio announced schools in new york city will not be opened in full attendance. New york citys Public School system is the largest in the country with more than 1. 8 Million Students and nearly 1,800 schools. Ive heard from community members, ive heard from people in the business community, civic groups, clergy all over the city the same message everyone is looking to the Public School system to indicate the bigger direction of new york city. Under the mayors plan, there probably will be no more than a dozen people in the classroom at a time for spacing, including teachers and aids. Thats a change in class size from new York City Schools which are around 30 children. The governor has final say over whether to reopen the schools. Rev, what you have here is the president of the United States saying from the white house, everybody reopen your schools and School Districts led by the biggest in the country, new york city, saying we dont have the luxury of reopening the doors and flooding children back in. Were going to be smart about this, we reserve the right to adjust our plans as school gets closer. One must keep in mind that the president is the very same president that denied there was a pandemic coming when he was told by his own Health Experts in january and early february of this year and he never did anything till march. So clearly he puts the politics and the Public Perception of his administration over the health of american citizens. So why would parents, who clearly would want to send their children back to school under the most healthy conditions why would they believe somebody who, in many ways caused, in my opinion, the up tick in march and april around the country because he did not do what Health Experts had warned him of in the first place. Why would we believe hes not listening to Health Experts now. I think what the mayor of new york is doing is wiser and listening to the Health Experts. But no one should be surprised that the man who wouldnt listen to the Health Experts four months ago is defying them now. His own Health Experts is risking School Children and their parents in the process. I think its absolutely outrageous. Sam would you could dismiss this as political noise, the president trying to do something he thinks might help him get reelected somehow, except the cdc announced they were going to change their guidelines yesterday. The president said theyre too restrictive, and the cdc is saying theyre going to come back with a new set of guidelines that makes it easier to reopen under pressure from the president. You know what it reminded me of, the moment in the wake of Hurricane Dorian where trump took out the sharpie and drew the map and noaa had to revise their own map. Its a case where politics and science buttheads. And i guess were going to have another instance where the professionals, medical professionals and the career politicians are at odds and politicians win. And so, you know, its a little bit of a black mark but its not totally unexpected for this administration. Let me echo basically what this entire conversation has hovered around. Which this is an indictment about longterm planning or lack thereof by the administration. We knew months ago we would need to take a make a massive hundreds of millions of dollars investment in updating our School Infrastructure to make it come back safely, more physical space, more cleaning stations, giving teachers resources they needed to teach classes in which they could adopt Public Safety guidelines. We have not gotten to the place where School Districts feel comfortable enough to let kids back in. Trump is tweeting how countries have done it successfully, they have a couple hundred cases of coronavirus a day, were at 55,000. It would be easier to open our schools if we had longterm planning, got the virus under control instead of reopening the bars and restaurants quickly because we wanted to go back. Made the commitment we wouldnt open them up and save our big reopening for the fall when we can get our kids back in school. Let me stress one thing. I love my kids, i want to be around them 24 hours a day, i dont care if they go back to school. I love having them at home. Its been a joy. I have no complaints. Sam, dont pander to your children. You never win in the fight. Its right. Its my daughter asking me to go back to school. Shots fired, sam. They want to go back. They want to go back. Yeah. Jonathan, dr. Fauci yesterday doing another interview, on a wall street journal podcast. Been doing the public appeara e appearances the last couple days, expressing his frustration saying states opened too soon thats why were here in arizona, texas, florida, california because we reopened too soon. At the same time the president is saying throw open the doors of the Public School or else. Is it fair that dr. Fauci is cut out of the conversation in the task force at this point . First off, sam is welcome to baby sit my kids at any time. I think its where dr. Fauci this message yesterday is telling. There was a meeting yet of the Coronavirus Task force and dr. Fauci is not there. He has been largely sidelined. Yes, he is doing interviewed but theyve been with like podcasts and radio, local tv. He hasnt done mayor Television Interviews in several weeks. We know in the spring his media calendar became the property of the west wing and theyre the ones limiting his appearances and he has not been at one of these briefings in quite some time. Another person who has not been in the briefings for quite some time is the president. Who has not attended one of those briefings, according to our reporting, since april when he suggested that injecting bleach might be a useful way to deal with the coronavirus. We are seeing these cases surge throughout the nation and the president is seemingly willing to ignore them. The messaging from the white house we discussed yesterday is America Needs to live with the virus, to go about their lives. Thats a tough, tall ask when were seeing icus in cities like houston and phoenix be overwhelmed. The contrast between what the medical professionals are saying and the president are saying, are reminiscent from the early days of the pandemic. The president s first hope to reopen the country was easter. Of course, he was talked out of that, it was many weeks later and were still seeing the damaging effects of states that reopened too soon. The president doesnt seem to have learned from that message and forging forward with the idea of reopening, this time focussing on the schools. The strategy hoping this will magically disappear doesnt seem to be working. Still ahead, stay put. Were going to talk about what needs to happen for schools to reopen in the fall. Well have a conversation with former fda commissioner dr. Scott gottlieb. And new york city is set to paint a black lives matter mural on fifth avenue in front of trump tower. Its frustrating. Not to name any states, but some states admittedly opened up too early and too quickly. 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Build muscle, fuel desire, and improve performance. Get test x180 from force factor, the 1 fastestgrowing mens health brand at walmart. About 30 minutes from now new york city will begin painting a black lives matter mural at the foot of trump tower on fifth avenue. The painting is set to begin, as i said, in less than an hour and will keep fifth avenue closed several days. President trump weighed in on the mural a week ago writing new york city is Cutting Police money by 1 billion yet the mayor is going to paint a big, expensive yellow black lives matter sign on fifth avenue denigrating this luxury avenue. This further antagonize new yorks finest who love new york. Spend this money fighting crime instead. Mayor bill de blasio responded writing black people built fifth avenue, your luxury came from their labor for which they have never been justly compensated were honoring them. There is no symbol of hate here, just a commitment to truth. Reverend sharpton weve seen the must recal murals across the country including leading up to the white house in washington d. C. But as someone who walked the streets for many years been to trump tower, that will be extraordinary to see the words black lives matter in front of the building. Certainly it will be an extraordinary sight and an appropriate sight. I remember leading a big march down fifth avenue around the Police Killing of sean bell at christmas because we wanted to get the attention of the Business Elite and the business corridor in the city around the fact that police abuse was going on. So i think this gives a permanence to that. Just this morning, willie, we see on the front page of the New York Times. Where they say where they look at the tapes of george floyd, he not only said i cant breathe, he said yall are going to kill me. Those was his last words and we find he said a lot more than we were told. This is what has arrested the attention of people worldwide. Why wouldnt, in the most popular shopping street in the world, the card of american buzz in terms of consumer goods, would we not remind the world that we ignored too long the value and dignity of black lives and do it on fifth avenue where people all over the world come to shop and people all over the world come to feel like theyve arrived at something. Thats where the message about to be, i was at harlem last week we did black lives matter on seventh achvenue. It always mattered on seventh avenue, didnt matter on fifth avenue. Guys like us cant shop on fifth avenue we look in the windows and hope we can. Sam stein, this has been used by the president of the United States, hes turned to race im looking at his twitter feed, nothing yet but im sure hell have something to say about the words black lives matter painted in front of the building he has lived in and worked in for many years. Hes sprinkled into references of the Confederate Flag and said black lives matter is a matter of hate. I dont know why he thinks paint is expensive. In terms of the politics of it, what weve seen over the past couple weeks is a massive screeching, veering away from actual talk around Police Reform from trump to using these things as wedge issues. Its not just denouncing black lives matter, but also, as you pointed out accurately, a very weird passionate defense of confederate monuments from a man born and raised in new york city, very weird. But he sees this as something to motivate his base. Theres nothing ive seen in the polling that indicates this is working. And, in fact, weve done reporting that says his own advisers are flabbergasted he goes back to this as well. Trump loves the hot cultural debates, he likes to invigorate his base obviously. And you can only imagine then for the next couple months hes going to be using these cleavages and Racial Justice politics as a motivator for his voters. Its an interesting, risky strategy because as youve seen in the polling data, he gets terrible marks on his handling of the George Floyd Protests but also massive consolidation around the black lives Matter Movement in ways we never saw after ferguson and those have stayed consistent to this very day. Unclear how those attacks broadened the number of people he hopes will vote for him this morning. Coming up a surge in Coronavirus Infections is putting a strain on Florida Health care providers. Miamidade is putting out an urgent call for nurses. Well talk to a physician at Jackson Memorial hospital next on morning joe. N memorial host on morning joe. The open road is open again. And wherever youre headed, Choice Hotels is there. Book direct at choicehotels. Com. But a resilient business you cacan be ready for it. Re. 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Were grateful for your time this morning especially since youre about 15 minutes away from walking into another shift treating patients with covid in your hospital. What do you expect to find this morning . Weve seen the data, the numbers on cases and hospitalizations. What will it look like in that er when you step inside in a few minutes . Were full. Its morning time were about to change shifts at 7 00 a. M. , and wed normally expect sort of the day to start all over. We have been packed. We have a lot of patients, both covid and noncovid patients. And we are full to the brim. And doctor, what kind of patient are you looking at . We heard reports from houston we had the ceo of the methodist system in houston saying the patients are younger than the ones we saw in new york and boston and new jersey in the early days of this. Whats the profile of the patients youre seeing there . Thats whats on everyones mind. We have a skew towards younger patients nowadays. We still have older patients. Patients with comorbidity, additional illnesses that predispose them from getting sick from covid. We have younger and otherwise healthy patients who just got ill with no real explanation for what made them so ill and required hospitalization. It definitely runs the gamut. Doctor, are you seeing some of the younger patients or older patients have been out in public as businesses have reopened in the state of florida . Yeah, i mean, its inevitable to have had patients that were no longer sheltering in place once the shelter in place was lifted. Were also seeing a lot of familial transmissions in the sense that one person somehow contracted covid and lives with other people at home, and then brings it home and spreads it within the family component. Doctor, katty kay is here with a question. That familial component was something we heard about in china originally and was of the reasons for the spread there. The Vice President , mike pence, yesterday i think it was, said he was optimistic that in some of the sun belt states the curve was starting to flatten and he singled out arizona and florida. Do you think the curve is starting to flatten where you are . I saw myself, i wasnt entirely clear as to what that reference was to, because it certainly doesnt feel that way and certainly not at our hospital and our facilities. We feel that we did a 180. In a sense we had sort of dodged a bullet, for lack of better words, in march and april and we thought that maybe somehow florida had avoided that, and then within a month we had done a 180, and it does not feel to me that our curve has flattened in the area where i am practicing. Would you say it hasnt flattened and youve seen the 180 and the new spike because florida opened up too fast without strict guidelines in place . Do you see a direct correlation between those two things . I mean, its hard to argue with the numbers, right. The numbers certainly support that idea. Florida is a fast state. I dont know that i can equal whats happening kind of in the area where i am to whats happening in other parts of the state. But definitely we opened and the argument could be made that it could have been a more measured or tempered opening. Maybe a little more slow. There may have been some complacent in place due to the fact that our numbers were never as bad as we had projected. But i understand the sense. People were suffering economically, were suffering emotionally, were suffering from being kind of locked and a desire to resume normalcy when it seemed like things were normal. I definitely understand the need that everybody had. It just happened really quickly. I dont think we expected to see what we are seeing now. And we have to find a way out of it. Jonathan lemire has a question for you, doctor. John . Doctor, one of the other talking points, the Vice President and the white house have used in recent days, looking at the mortality rate theyre saying not as many people are dying from coronavirus even as infections surge in part because of great work from People Health care professionals like you, sir. What are you seeing . Are the people who come in, theres a rise in infections, this comes at a time when Public Health officials are wondering if the virus might be more transmissable but less lethal than what we saw in march and april, does that match up with what youre seeing anecdotally . That is probably accurate in the sense we discussed how there was a shift towards younger and maybe healthier patients becoming infected. So it may be due to the less sick baseline of these patients theyre able to weather the infection a little bit better. We have also become more adapt in managing the condition. We know a lot more about strategies. We have a lot more Treatment Options available that have withstood the tests of time and had great outcomes. So i think as we have progressed through the understanding of this illness that has given us the capabilities to be more aggressive in our treatment of our patients and have led to better outcomes. But we shouldnt feel that because the death rate is lower, and that is certainly something to be, in a sense, proud of, but we shouldnt feel just because there are no deaths that there is no illness and no sickness, and no ramifications associated with the disease. Emergency Department Physician at floridas Jackson Memorial hospital dr. Mark supino, well let you get to work. Were grateful you took the time right before your shift to share what you know. Thank you, doctor, we appreciate it. Thank you. Still ahead on morning joe, tulsa, oklahoma seeing a spike of coronavirus cases. Health Officials Say the president s rally more than two weeks ago may have contributed to that surge. 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Were here for you during this challenging timeand always. Find support at anoro. Com. The ivy league yesterday became the first conference to suspend all fall sports, including football and left open the possibility of moving some seasons to the spring if the coronavirus pandemic is better controlled by then. The Ivy League President said in a statement sports could not be played under campus wide policies that include restrictions on student and staff travel, social distancing requirements and limits on group gatherings. Senator Richard Blummenthal called on schools to do the same thing, saying if schools fail to do that itll be because of money and the misguided act of putting school profits ahead of people who play for them. This as Stanford University became the first Power Five School to eliminate athletic programs because of the pandemic. Announcing 11 of its 36 varsity sports will be shuttered next school year. Yesterday ohio state and North Carolina became the latest schools to suspend voluntary workouts after outbreaks among athletes. We have sam stein and Jonathan Lemire as our ivy league eli elitists and football reporters for this morning. What does this mean for the run to National Championship . It puts on a great pause. Dartmouth football is pretty good now. That being said, this is not a surprise to me in the slightest. I have a hard time envisioning collegiate sports, at least in the fall going forth. Its one thing if its a professional Sports League where you have virtually unlimited resources, create a bubble like the nba, try to manage the disease and people are being paid, compensated to at least incur this risk, which is a real risk. Its another when youre asking student athletes to do it for profit for the school and ncaa. Although we can set aside whether the ivy league fits in that category. I dont see the rationale forcing stundents to do this. I think were delusional as a society if we think sports are going to come back in any way like were used to. Its hopeful, something we all want as sports fans, but it is remarkable prayer if you think its going to happen in the collegiate level. Jonathan, obviously lsu and clemson and alabama are not taking their cues from blumenthal or the ivy league. Weve seen outbreaks in the clemson and lsu locker rooms and all the programs have had a number of cases of coronavirus, forget about filling the stands with 100,000 people its keeping those guys safe and back on the field. Its difficult with College Football but also the leagues in a couple weeks are saying theyre going to Start Playing games, the Major League Baseball, nhl, its dicey, a couple guys get sick and everyone pulls out. Im a proud graduate of the university and we won back in the 40s. Go lions. Go lions. I agree with everything you said. Particularly College Sports its going to be difficult to ask these students to do this where theyre not being compensated. To your point, i think the pro sports across the board are finding the real challenges right here. This is going to be harder than they anticipated. There are a number of players who tested positive in the nba as those teams are starting to go into that bubble. There are concerns raised about how secure that bubble is with disney employees allowed to come in and out. And as weve been discussing on the show, a rash of testing problems with Major League Baseball were seeing more players opt out of the season. And kris bryant from the cubs said this week i want to play but i need to be able to do it safely and right now im not sure i can. He hasnt opted out yet but hes putting that on the table. We saw the photo of mike trout that went viral yesterday running the bases, wearing a mask as he did so. I think theres a commitment there they want to try to play the games but its going to be difficult. I think for baseball in particular they have a couple days to figure out the testing or get it right or youll see more players opt out and its going to be difficult to proceed with the season. I would point out, vanderbilts home opener against mercer on the 5th is still on. We can rest easy. Thank you both, good to see you. Coming up on morning joe, the president puts pressure on schools to reopen the fall and questions the current cdc guidelines, which now will change. Plus well be joined by the governor of maryland, larry hogan and former fda commissioner scott gottlieb. Morning joe is coming right back. Morning joe is coming right back if you have moderate to severe psoriasis or psoriatic arthritis, Little Things can become your big moment. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not an injection or a cream. Its a pill that treats differently. 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That connects you to technology to each other and to other agencies. Built with and for first responders. Firstnet. The only officially authorized Wireless Network for first responders. Because putting you first is our job. To bit never bothered me. Dust . Until i found out what it actually was. Dust mite droppings . Ewww. Dead skin cells . Gross so now, i grab my swiffer sweeper and heavy duty dusters. Dusters has three layers that grab, trap and lock away gross dust. Gotcha and, for dust on my floors, i switch to my sweeper. The textured cloths grab, trap and lock dirt and hair. No matter where dust bunnies hide. No more heebie jeebies. Glad i stopped cleaning and started swiffering. You know, it gets frustrating because not to name any states but some states admittedly opened up too early and too quickly. So that was something that probably should not have happened that led to this. Thats dr. Anthony fauci speaking on a podcast yesterday. Welcome back to morning joe. Still with us is president of the National Action network, reverend al sharpton. And anchor for bbc world katty kay. And joining us is Mike Barnicle and elise jordan. President trump yesterday put more pressure on schools to reopen this fall despite a surge in new coronavirus cases, and the potential of a second wave in the fall. Nbc News White House correspondent Peter Alexander has details. President trump is escalating his push for schools to reopen. Learning by computer is not as good as learning in the classroom. Our schools we want them open in the fall. Reporter earlier complaining on twitter about the cdcs voluntary guidelines for reopening schools blasting them as tough and expensive. While they want them open theyre asking schools to do impractical things. Hours later the white house announced the cdc will issue new recommendations next week. We dont want the guidance from cdc to be the reason the schools reopen. Reporter among the cds current recommended policies, keep desks 6 feet apart, close cafeterias and playgrounds if possible, and teach use of cloth face coverings. The cdc director tried to provide clarity for schools. I want to make it very clear whats not the intent of cdcs guidelines is to be used as a rationale to keep schools closed. Reporter the president is also threatening to cut off federal funding for those that dont open their doors. Pointing to students back in classrooms in europe, the president suggests any opposition is politically motivated. The democrats think it would be bad for them politically if schools reopen before the november election. The cdc director saying the chances of children getting sick or spreading the virus are remote. The virus doesnt cause significant illness in children. But teachers unions warn among their members the fears are real. Nobody is going to go back fulltime in a situation you cant protect their health. Mike barnicle as weve been seeing for weeks now we all want our kids back in the classrooms in the fall we want them to be with their teachers, their buddies, in sports, doing math club after school and all the things they love to do. But mike pence, the Vice President , said in that piece we know the schools can open safely in the fall. Do we . I dont know thats true. We havent seen a plan put out by the federal government. In fact, what weve seen by President Trump is a threat to cut funding. And the cdc stepping back saying well revise our guidelines to make them less retrickive as the president asked yesterday. Willie, there are so many astounding elements involved in this its incredible to listen to. We just, as you indicated, heard the Vice President of the United States say every american knows we can reopen our schools. I dont know a single parent who i have spoken to, including you about george and lucy, who are comfortable about the idea of reopening the schools en masse in september, a few short weeks away. We have had five states with record high infections in the last few days. Five states in the United States. We have physician after physician on each and every morning talking about their hospitals are fuel in specifll states, florida, arizona especially and a couple other states and we have the Vice President of the United States harkening back to we can reopen the schools. Every working parent certainly wants their children to be going to school in september fulltime. It its very doubtful thats going to happen for a variety of reasons, the fear of infection the most primary component of those reasons. But theres also something going on here thats astounding. We are about 90 days removed from a specific series of incidents where various hospitals in massachusetts, new york and new jersey have had a lack of personal Protection Equipment for nurses and doctors, and we are again experiencing that around other regions of the country. Thats an incredible portrait of incompetence. We dont have ppe in the hospital that is need it. We dont have testing as we heard from the mayor of phoenix making a plea on this network yesterday that they need testing so they can account for who has it and how big the problem is in that city and the state of arizona. I guess the good news is as concerned parents listen to the president of the United States and the Vice President saying every american knows we can open the schools and lets do it, is that this is going to be decided by School Districts, by states and cities. We saw new york city mayor bill de blasio yesterday saying the plan as of now, and it could change, here in early july is to open the schools but have kids come back a day or two a week, staggering whos in the class and keep the number of people in the classroom down. When you have the president putting downward pressure on the cdc and saying change your regulations to make it easier to open the schools, thats where things get tricky because the president does have the power, apparently, to change the guidelines. Yeah, that is concerning. Right in the middle of a pandemic to be saying we should be relaxing the guidelines when the country is going through these massive surges seems to be the thing you shouldnt be doing, right. It reminds me a little bit of when states were opening up, particularly in the south, thinking of georgia. And there were those quite stringent guidelines came out of the white house on how states should open up. But then the president seemed to encourage states to ignore the guidelines and open anyway. So you get issued guidelines that make scientific sense, sense for keeping People Healthy. Then you have the president undermining those saying can you rewrite the guidelines because we dont like them because they dont move with our timetable. We heard dr. Fauci say the problem with america is we never got the lockdown right, it was leaky, we never got control of this from the beginning. When you look around the countries in the world who opened up successfully, had their schools opened for more than a month from now, its because they tackled this right from the beginning. And did it by having strict guidelines people follow. If you have strict guidelines and the president saying dont follow them or the white house saying lets rewrite the guidelines to make them softer. Thats not going to work. We know it didnt work because it didnt work the first time around which is why the country is in the position its in now. At the college level, harvard university, Massachusetts Institute of technology filed a lawsuit yesterday to stop the Trump Administration from revoking the visas of foreign students who do not take classes in person this fall. Those failing to comply with the rules will risk deportation. But the universities argue the rules are designed to pressure campuses into reopening in person classes during the pandemic. The Massachusetts Attorney general said the state will support the suit adding, quote, massachusetts is home to thousands of International Students who should not fear deportation or be forced to put their health and safety at risk in order to advance their education. This decision from i. C. E. Is cruel and illegal well sue to stop it. What you have here is the federal government saying if youre not on the campus, not physically at harvard or mit or any School Across the country, you risk deportation and that is seen by a lot of people as a move by the federal government to pressure the campuses to reopen by threatening deportation of International Students. And id also point out it goes in line with the Trump Administrations draconian and cruel immigration policies. You have students who might be at risk of contracting the virus if they head home, yet that doesnt matter. It doesnt matter also that foreign students usually pay the bulk of tuition costs at these large universities. And so, the universities have a financial incentive to keep them happy and to keep them on campus if they need to. Its just, the cruelty is the point as the atlantic writer has written and mary trump, Donald Trumps niece as titled a chapter in her upcoming back. Its about how cruel the administration can be to anyone on a visa and how they can wield their federal power to force the institutions to make choices that do not line up with what scientific and medical experts are telling them to do. By the way, reverend sharpton, harvard has announced its not going to have all its students on campus this fall. Itll have freshmen and seniors and maybe mix in sophomores and juniors in the spring semester. And there will be International Students asked to learn online, in which case the Trump Administration is saying you will be deported if you dont leave. That is why this becomes so, really, insensitive. And really despicable. Because harvard has made that announcement already. Others are going to be making it that a lot of the education that they provide will be online. And for the Trump Administration to use that as a way to go on their continued obsession with deporting people, what are we talking about . Are we talking about punishing people for doing what an institution determines is the best interest of their health . So weve gotten so insensitive and operate with such lack of respect for the humanity of people that were telling them, put your health aside. Youre either going to do what i say and go to campus, at great risk, because you are a marginalized because you a foreigner, this is not the america we should want it to be and its not the america we profess to be to the world. Lets bring in democratic congressman max rose of new york, a veteran of the war in afghanistan and recipient of the bronze star and purple heart. Its great to see you this morning. Lets start with the School Conversation we have a lot to get to, including your bill with russia sponsoring terrorism. But schools we heard mayor de blasio announcing at this point a plan for the city to not fully reopen schools but pa partially reopening. You have the president threatening to cut off funding to schools from the federal level if they dont reopen. Whats the feeling, in your district, about where we ought to be this fall among parents . Look, i think unlike the president of the United States right now im committed to keeping the health, welfare and safety of our teachers in mind. I represent probably more new york city Public Schoolteachers than any other member of congress and under no circumstances do i think they should be forced to risk their lives and put their safety and health in jeopardy unnecessarily. Now with that being said, though, i think we can figure this out via combination of Remote Learning and onsite learning, an investment in resources, ppe availability, but let me tell you who absolutely does not want schools open at all, its Mitch Mcconnell. Every single day, Mitch Mcconnell stands in the way of increased state and local funding. Every single day, Mitch Mcconnell tells our teachers and our students that he does not care about them because if we dont get additional state and local funding, we will not be able to handle this. Opening our schools safely will require resources. So i think the president should call mitch and ask him why he is so against opening our schools. School districts have said theyre going to need more money as you point out if theyre going to meet some of the guidelines that have been laid out in terms of safety for students and faculty. I want to ask about businesses on Staten Island, it gets to the conversation of Small Business across the country. There have been stops and starts that have hurt the restaurant industry, that rehired summer staff, ordered food for the fourth of july weekend and were asked to close again. What are you doing in your district, in congress to help out Small Businesses and restaurants in this country . Our Small Businesses, particularly our restaurants have been hit harder than most other sectors. Im of the belief we should be ramping up the opening of restaurants albeit in a safe manner, but expanding outdoor dining, not allowing for them to be fined each and every step of the way because theyre having to dig deep right now. And then we have got to figure out, particularly in new york city how we can safely get them indoors as the fall comes as the winter comes, its going to be unreasonable to say, stay outside. I dont want to meet this pandemic, particularly in new york city where we have already been through the storm with unnecessary economic calamity. These people have put their lives into their Small Businesses. They treat their workers like family many of them, and theyre watching them wither on the vine and it breaks our heart and we have to do something. We have to do something about federal aid, im a believer in additional federal support for our Restaurant Owners as we continue to battle this pandemic. Congressman, Mike Barnicle is here with you question for you. Mike . Max, what, if anything, are you hearing from your consistenconsistent constituents throughout the district about one the potential of being evicted from rental apartments and secondly, parents whose economic viability depends largely somewhat largely, i would think, on their children being placed in school in september but that might not occur . What are you hearing on those two issues . Look, the system that we have right now is plain and simple unfair. Reagan is smiling down at the degree to which we are practicing trickle down economics as the fed pumps up assets each and every single day, but an ever growing share of our low income working class and middle class patriotic americans are unemployed or under employed. So theres a few things we have to do. And i sincerely believe and know that my constituents agree. One, we have to address this pandemic with the full force and power of the United States of america. Lets stop playing on the sidelines. Right now we see states and cities competing for swabs p. All a swab is is a glorified q tip. Its ridiculous. Competing for masks. It makes zero sense. Secondly, lets not suddenly become born again fiscal conservatives at a time where debt should not matter. We have to win this thing which means investments in our communities, investments in infrastructure but also investments in making sure that nobody is kicked out of their home due to a pandemic that they had zero control over. Right now people are looking to the United States of america, looking to the white house, looking to the federal government, looking to their elected leaders for leadership. They dont want to see partisan games they want to see results. Thats what im hearing. Same for school openings. Lets do it safely, responsibly, and lets allow us to get back to work in a safe manner. Congressman, katty kay has one for you. Congressman, its been almost two weeks since we got the news that russian operatives had paid taliban fighters to Kill Coalition american and British Service members in afghanistan. And still no retribution from the white house. You have a bill to try and make something happen here. Whats the status of that bill and do you think america will take the white house will eventually take action against president putin because of what we found out happened in afghanistan . Look, since this was revealed several weeks ago, i have found it soul crushing and heart wrenching, not just as a member of congress but also as a former infantry platoon leader in afghanistan. Someone who still has friends on the front lines who are showing far more courage than i am right now. So we have to proceed on dual tracks. First of all we have to figure out did the president know about this . If he wasnt briefed on that, then why not . Why was it okay for this administration not to elevate a global power having bounties on american soldiers all the way up to the president s purview so he could take action . Secondly we have to make the consideration right now as to what do we do . We cannot allow for this to go unanswered. So i am leading an effort in the house, which is bipartisan being led by republican Corey Gardner in the senate calling on the state department to make the determination as to whether or not russia should be deemed a state sponsor of terrorism. If so, that would be followed with economic sanctions, restrictions on aid, restrictions on economic activity. What we should not be doing right now is exactly what this administration is doing which is playing geopolitical footsie with someone who is obviously an enemy. We cant look at this in a silo. This is not just about soldiers in afghanistan, this is also about russia attacking our democracy. This is about russia annexing crimea. This is about russia shooting down an airliner. This is about russia engaging in a chemical attack in the United Kingdom over and over and over again theyre acting as a hostile enemy. At this point we have to strongly consider treating them as such. Congressman, al sharpton here. Let me ask you about two items, you referred to one of them in terms of your constituents, the passing of the patriot act in terms of continuing to help another stimulus bill for those still suffering during this time of the pandemic. And also dealing with the with Speaker Pelosi and all have gotten through the house in terms of the in terms of the george floyd bill in terms of dealing with policing. Youre the congressman in Staten Island where eric gardner happened in terms of the chokehold. You have a fairview on both sides of the issue. Do you see as you address Mitch Mcconnells stalling that well be able to get a fair debate on these two issues and items before we see the senate go for break . , you know, i dont know what Mitch Mcconnell does all day, but it appears he doesnt do anything but call up special interests and donors and act according to their will because he certainly doesnt heed the calls of the American People to act on anything, whether it be justice in policing or state and local aid. He loves to talk about defunding the police, defunding the police. It appears the loudest proponent of defunding the police in America Today is Mitch Mcconnell. Because if he does not follow up on state and local spending as quickly as possible, stop calling it a blue state issue when its clear the red states are suffering as well and were the United States of america, not the blue states and red states ill tell you whats going to happen. Youre going to see cops fired, teachers fired, nurses fired, sanitation workers fired and Mitch Mcconnell should print out Defund Police tshirts and wear them each and every day because he will be the loudest supporter of that movement. Its clear what we have to do right now, though, its not defund the police. Its loudly supporting justice for all and safety for all. And ie lop cli rigronically wha require is investing in local agencies, investing in Holding Law Enforcement officials accountable and investing in congressman, unfortunately were losing your audio there. I hope its not our morning joe viewer young miles. Great to talk to you until the end. We send our best to your family. Congressman max rose of new york, thanks for your time this morning. Still ahead, republican governor larry hogan has not been afraid to criticize President Trumps handling of the coronavirus, in fact, he had several chapters dedicated to the response to the pandemic in his new book. 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On my way to becoming debt free. Or for hospitals to get back to normal again. Thats why, at Cancer Treatment centers of america, we arent waiting. Were right here, still focused on the only thing we do, providing worldclass cancer care, all under one roof. Because cancer isnt just what we do, its all we do. Cancer Treatment Centers of america. Call now for an appointment. Welcome back to morning joe. Joining us chairman of the National Governors association, republican governor larry hogan of maryland, author of the new book still standing. Governor hogan, congratulations on the book. Great to have you with us, well dig into the book in a moment but i want to ask you for an update right now from your state in the middle of the pandemic yesterday you had the lowest number of current hospitalizations since back at the end of march. What have you done in your state to get your arms around coronavirus . Well, look, so far were doing pretty well. As were very concerned about some of the spikes and increases all around the country and all around our state, actually, with our surrounding neighbors but so far weve been trending in the right direction were down on our Positivity Rate. Down on the rate of case increase, down on hospitalizations, icu beds and deaths. So were happy with where we are. But were still very, very concerned and were staying vigilant because by no means is this crisis behind us and it can turn on a dime and spike up again as weve seen across the country. But we took early and aggressive action in our state and its been working so far. Yeah, i want to ask you about schools. A big yas youre well aware. Theres a fight right now at the federal level, donald trump says schools must reopen in the fall. Obviously these decisions will be up to people like you and School Districts. What did you make of the threat to cut off funding to schools if you dont reopen under his order . I thought it was unfortunate. I dont know what prompted his remark. We had a great discussion on monday with the nations governors, the Vice President led the call, dr. Robert redfield was on there pllaying t the cdcs suggested guidelines for states and local governments. It was a productive discussion. All of us i think are anxious to get our kids back to school but we want to go about it in a safe way, and the guidelines put out by the cdc i thought were helpful. Our state is taking a look, listening to the scientists, including all of the teachers, the stakeholders our local boards of education reviewing and coming up with a plan and the federal government had given some good suggestions and then i have no idea what it was that the president was concerned about or why he didnt like the cdc report or what this threat was about. But it really was not helpful to the discussion. I think everybody should be on the same page we want to keep our kids safe and get people back to school in a safe way. To be clear how our Education System works in this country, will your decisions about reopening schools be impacted at all by the rhetoric of the president or is it a decision made by the state and local level . Its really made at the state and local level. So our state superintendent of schools and school board which is independent of the Governors Office we try to take the politics out of it they work with our local boards of education and they take input from the scientists, doctors, teachers, parents, they try to gather the information, give flexibility to the jurisdictions to give decisions to their communities. Thats how its going to be done. While we appreciate input from the cdc and the federal government were not going to be bullied or threatened by the president. I dont think thats helpful for him to make those comments. Fair to say a threat to cut off federal funding will not impact your decisions . I dont think well have federal funding cut off and its the last thing we should be talking about right now. Were pushing as your last guest was talking about, we need more assistance to state and local governments so we cannot have drastic cuts to education so we can continue to pay our teachers and our Police Officers and firefighters and our Health Care Workers and front line workers. So were in need of more federal funding not less federal funding. Its something that all of the governors are united in fighting for. Governor, elise jordan is here with a question for you. Governor, congratulations on your new book. And im curious thank you. Youre one of the most popular governors in the country, a republican who has managed to work with both sides. And what kind of posttrump future do you see for the Republican Party if donald trump is not reelected in november . Its one of the things that i talk about in the book, actually. About, you know, the book is really kind of a look at my life story. I think i have interesting thoughts to share and hopefully people will find that the book the book an interesting read. Its not a policy paper, its not a boring political book. But i do talk about what i see as a future for the Republican Party and for the country. Im frustrated with the divisive Politics Today and the dysfunction. And, you know, ive tried my best to avoid the extremes of either party and find the middle ground we can all stand together. I think most people in america are somewhat frustrated with the political process, looking to go in a different direction. Regardless of what happens in this election in november, i think both parties are going to take a long look at reexamining themselves between now and 2024 because once we get past this pandemic, this global pandemic, and get that behind us, i dont want to see washington just return to the same toxic politics weve been dealing with for years. Governor, Mike Barnicle has a question for you. Mike . Governor, the world has seen people involved in protests over the last two months that have never been involved in protests before in their lives, due largely to the first televised public execution of a man, george floyd. And im sure im pretty sure that everyone in the city of baltimore was stunned by what they saw but not really surprised. What, in your view, is the future of policing in america . Well, first of all, obviously the senseless murder of george floyd has kind of brought all of this to the surface and its engaged people all across the country including here in maryland and baltimore, and one of the things im most proud of is here in our state for the most part weve had very peaceful protests and had thousands of people come out, express their frustrations, let their feelings be known talk about how do we address these underlying issues of systemic racism and yet we didnt have the violence that many of the other cities saw. I think thats something im happy with. We did have violence five years ago after i became governor, i talk about that experience in my book as well after the death of freddie grey and we had violence erupt in the city of baltimore. I made sure we worked hard to protect the citizens, to stop the violence and the senseless destruction of property and harming people. But we allowed peaceful protests to go on for a week and i walked the streets and talked with Community Leaders. But i think right now we need to find a way to let people get out and protest and express their feelings we have to address some of the underlying issues but we have to stop out of control mobs breaking the law in cities you cant have that continue to go on. Governor hogan, al sharpton, i do remember you trying to bring some closure after the freddie gray case when you came in and i look forward to reading what you said about it in your book but as we are at this moment with george floyd and you are worked with local clergy that im familiar with and Community Leaders and others, like larry young, we also need to see some legislation. You said systemic racism. What do you, as a republican governor, that has respect on both sides of the political spectrum, what do you say that you think your party ought to be doing legislatively and concretely to address the problems of policing in this country, particularly since youve had the experience of freddie gray all the way to now being governor in this era with george floyd. These are not easy answers. But many of the things have to be addressed both at the local, state and federal level and i think those discussions are taking place. We havent solved these issues in our state but we have been working towards them and working towards solving them over the past six years, at least five and a half years since the freddie gray situation in new york. Weve made a lot of changes and the Baltimore Police force is a majority minority. They tried to change their training procedures and how they go about recruitment. I think at the state level we passed legislation at the state level that put a lot of these reforms in place in our state already. I signed it into law after it passed our democratic legislature. And theres proposals this year were working with the presiding officers in the our senate and house to talk about taking another look at that, and see what else needs to be addressed. But, you know, those are discussions i think that are helpful and that we need to be having and i think well make some progress both at the federal and state level and local level. Governor hogan, katty mentioned your Approval Rating hovering around 80 in the state of maryland, youre coming out with a book about your life and your political career, has many people wondering particularly in the Political Press if youre up to something more. Are you considering down the road a run for president . Perhaps 2024, i know you wont make announcements this morning but is that something thats on your radar screen . Ive heard that talk and its flattering that people would consider that. But i have an important job here in maryland until january of 2023, im term limited after that, were in the middle of a pandemic. Were in the middle of an economic crisis dealing with other issues. This book wasnt about that. It was about number one telling a story how we overcame the odds and have been successful in bringing people together as governor in the bluest state of america, and its to talk about the future in ways we see moving our country in a better election. We have to get behind this election if in november and then we have four years after that, i think its too early to speculate what might happen in the next president ial election. Well ask you later then. Governor hogan, the new book still standing,. Governor larry hogan of maryland, thank you for your time this morning we appreciate it. Thank you. Coming up former fda commissioner dr. Scott gottlieb warned this past weekend the United States is back where we started when the coronavirus epidemic was peaking in new york. The difference now is there are several epicenters across the country. Well have him weigh in on School Reopening next on morning joe. Reopening next on morning joe. Dont just think about where youre headed this summer. Think about how youll get there. And now that you can lease or buy a new lincoln remotely or in person. Discovering that feeling has never been more effortless. The lincoln summer invitation sales event is here. Now theres skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90 clearer skin at 4 months after just 2 doses. Skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, such as fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or coughs. Or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. Nothing is everything. Ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. Welcome back to morning joe. Coming up on 7 45 east coast time as you look at a live picture at the white house in washington. Joining us now former fda commissioner dr. Scott gottlieb. You raised a lot of eyebrows with a comment you made this week because people have been taking to your advice every day with whats happening with coronavirus where you said were back where we started with coronavirus in new york in march and april and the difference is there was one epicenter, new york city and now theres four or five epicenters. Whats your clear eyed view of where we are right now . When you look at the total number of infections were having 700,000 infections a day right now. Probably more than that. Probably the number we were having at the peak of the epidemic in new york city. At that time we diagnosed 34,000 infections but probably one in 20 infections because we werent doing a good job testing. People werent getting tested. So that meant we probably had around 700,000 infections even though we were only diagnosing 34,000 a day. Were doing a better job testing probably one in 12 infections right now. Cdc says 1 in 10. So thats 60,000 infections a day were diagnosing thats probably more likely 700,000 infections. So in terms of the burden were in the same position as we were in march and april. The only problem is its in younger people, healthier people as were doing better protecting vulnerable populations. So the overall morbidity is lower right now in terms of the infection burden but the burden is about the same. In terms of hospitalizations with 43,000 hospitalizations yesterday, that puts us back where we were in mid may and thats likely to continue to go up tragically. Were likely to see hospitalizations rise. Remember at the peak in april we hit about 60,000 hospitalizations. So we might start to approach that number as well. So, dr. Gottlieb, weve had doctors on just this morning, one from miamidade county, an Emergency Room Physician about to go into his shift saying im going to walk into a full emergency room, many covid patients, some noncovid patients, were hearing similar stories out of places like san anton antonio, houston, full beds there and a shortage of ppe, which is something im sure the country thought we solved after the initial rush in new york, boston, and new jersey. Why are we here on the fundamental questions of getting people tested, getting people ppe, why are we back asking these questions and having these crises again . I think the most surprising part of this is the testing that were having the testing delays in states with epidemics. It demonstrates we dont have a lot of capacity in the country. While were testing a Record Number of people a day and while the amount continues to go up, the ability to get testing resources into places theres epidemics isnt that strong right now. The only real swing capacity in the country are the large clinical labs, and theyre pretty maxed out and they have a limited ability to move additional Testing Capacity into some of these markets because theyre committed around the country. While you have a lot of testing in massachusetts and new york you dont have enough in florida and texas. Thats where the government can play a role. In terms of the health care resources, these states arent yet on their expansion plans. They havent gone to their Surge Capacity. I suspect some of them are going to tip to that in the coming weeks. States like texas and florida have vast health care systems, california as well. States im worried about are arizona, South Carolina, alabama, louisiana where youre seeing large outbreaks but they dont have the same vast resources, and its hard to move patients between states so states can get in trouble in terms of running out of health care capacity. Florida still has capacity, they havent gotten to their Surge Capacity yet, same with california and texas. But in the next few weeks well see states grow and theyll max out that capacity and go into a surge type of setting probably. Katty kay has a question for you. Can i ask you about the schools issue. Speaking earlier in the program about what schools can learn from other countries and what theyve done in other countries but one of the biggest differences is infection rates are higher, in germy you had 298 cases yesterday, denmark, 110. When you compare that in the states and the surges happening at the moment, is it thinkable when we got infection rates of 11,000 plus cases a day in a state like florida to be opening schools . I think schools should reopen. I think the vast majority of governors are working to reopen their districts. In states where you have dense epidemics and cities you have dense epidemics its going to be difficult. So when you look at houston, miami its going to be hard to reopen schools in terms of the backdrop of Surge Capacity, beds in convention centers. As this builds if you look at the private modeling it shows were going to peak out in the states in the next two or three weeks, its unclear if thats true or not. There hasnt been a lot of mitigation thats really a signal were going to turn a corner on this, although people are vigilant. So if you do peak out in the number of cases in two or three weeks, youre still going to have an extended plateau like we had in new york. Hospitalization less increase and so will deaths, tragically. So these hospitals will be maxed out at the time they look at starting school. The other thing to remember is with other countries, they put in place stringent measures in the schools to try to control outbreaks. They did it successfully. Some schools didnt. Israel had a lt of capacity issues in their schools. But the countries that did it successfully, did it by putting in place measures to try to control for outbreaks. Thats what we need to do here. You want to avoid outbreaks in the settings that is going to close schools and set us back. So you want to put in place precautions at the outset to prevent large outbreaks in the school room setting. When i talk to governors, thats what theyre looking to do. They all want to reopen their schools, but theyre going to do it with some prudence, some cautions, at least initially. Take it slow and see how it goes before they start to bring everyone back into the classroom. Some are going to stagger the school day or have one day a week that kids distance learn. Put in place distancing in the school. But all of them are going to take some kind of precaution. Yeah. We need to get this priet. As you said, new york city has announced its staggered school schedule. Well see if that holds up until Early September when schools open back up again. Dr. Scott gotleib, thank you very much. Coming up, will there be another stimulus package from Congress Amid this ongoing outbreak . Outbreak businesses are starting to bounce back. But what if you could do better than that . Like adapt. Discover. Deliver. In new ways. To new customers. What if you could come back stronger . Faster. Better. At comcast business, we want to help you not just bounce back. But bounce forward. And now, were committed to helping you do just that with a powerful and reliable internet and voice solution at a great price. Call or go online today. Still ahead this morning, we will go live to the mayor who says her city is in a crisis. Plus, we will bring in leadsing Infectious Disease researcher dr. Michael olsterhome to find out what that means for efforts to stop the spread. And former Baltimore City Health Commissioner dr. Leena wynne on what the Trump Administration needs to do so schools can reopen safely this fall. Morning joe is coming right back. 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Com dad, im sitting here today in the u. S. Capital talking to our elected professionals, talking to our elected professionals is proof that you made the right decision 40 years ago to leave the soviet union and come here to the United States of america in search or a better life for our family. Do not worry. I will be fine for telling the truth. That was the memorable testimony back in november from Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vinman during the impeachment hearings of President Trump. Yesterday, the 21year veteran announced his environment from the United States army. His attorney allegations a campaign of bullying and retaliation by the president and says of vinman, it has been made clear his future within the institution he has dutifully served will forever be limited. Lieutenant colonel vinman was set to be promoted to full colonel this year. Good morning. Its july 9th. Joe and mika have the morning off. Also this morning, President Trump is escalating his aggressive push for schools to reopen this fall. Threatening to cut off federal funding if they dont and rejecting now the cdcs current guidance. This as several states continue to see hospitals at or near capacity with full icu beds, renewed concerns about a shortage of personal protective equipment and the mayor of phoenix sounding the alarm over a lack of available testing. Dr. Anthony fauci said on wednesday, the United States is facing its current spike in coronavirus cases because some states just opened too soon. Meanwhile, tulsa, oklahoma, seeing a spike of its own and a Public Health official there suggesting it may stem from the president s rally there last month. And another big story we are watching this morning, the Supreme Court is expected to end its session today with a ruling on whether the president s financial records must be produced when subpoenaed. Another very busy morning. Lets first bring in jonathan lamere. Jonathan, now a twoday fight for the president over schools and reopening schools, pushing them to open, criticizing colleges and universities that have already announced they will not send all of their students back to the campuses on this fall. So what is he doing here exactly . Hes got the cdc now spinning and saying the will come out with new guidelines, relaxing guidelines around school. There is always, with this president , an element of politics here. What are they . Well, thats right, willie. For weeks and even a couple of months, this sort of hot button political cultural wedge issue was use of masks. The president defining all Available Health data, the recommendation of his own medical team and Public Health professionals and not wear a mask. Even in the face of rising evidence, of course, that a mask helps reduce the transmission of the virus. And eventually even we have seen fellow republicans break with the president and endorse them, other prominent elected officials. It seems like the next battleground are going to be schools. The last 48 hours has been remarkable assault from the president making up this, the political push, without evidence. The democratic governors and local mayors and other local officials are trying to keep schools closed in order to hurt him politically. What we saw yesterday, and weve sort of grown numb to this because weve seen the president to this with some frequency, it is remarkable that you broke with part of his own government in order to push this. I disagree with them, theyre being too tough and send them back to the drawingboard. The white house is working up its own School Guidelines in regard to do cdcs revisions. This is about politics, willie. This is about him believing that the country he needs schools to open. Look, we all need schools to open. My kids need schools to open. At the same time, his eye is towards is because of november, because he feels that its a sign of normalcy and thinking that the economy cant really reopen unless working parents can go back to work because their kids are back in school. And jonathan, its not just a vague threat that the president is making. He specifically said he will cut off funding to those schools that dont reopen. Just a blanket threat to schools across the country, even as we see coronavirus spiking in many of states across the south and in the sunbelt. Obviously, he doesnt have the power to unilaterally cut off federal funding. Most funding comes from states and local governments. Then they run their School Systems. But is that something that is being entertained, that if you dont open your school, you may suffer because of it . The president brandished his threat yesterday, pretty extraordinary. Weve been pushing the white house as to what that actually means. Theyre still they say thats in the works. But i think your point is right, theres a limit to what they can do. Certainly theres federal funding involved and theres schools trying to reopen that will need a lot more federal funding. I think there is a sense that when Congress Gets back here in a couple of weeks, thats an issue theyll need to address, as well. Its not clear whether the president will follow through. He made similar threats, withhold funding, and it didnt really go anywhere. But hes drawn a line here. Hes making this the next political fight. Hes trying to put these democrats in a box and hes doing it with an eye towards november. Its not a coincidence. This comes during a week as the campaign, his campaign, tries to reboot itself three weeks after that disastrous comeback rally in tulsa where he faced a sea of empty seats. Hes now back out there tomorrow in florida. Its his first inperson fundraiser in more than a month. It comes in a vital battleground state. And then on saturday, he makes his return to the Campaign Rallies with one saturday night in portsmouth, new hampshire. Whether or not the president has the power to do it, the president did explicitly say, imagine this, were going cut off funding to Public Schools if you dont rush your kids back in during the pandemic. Arizona, florida, South Carolina, among those states that are struggling mightily right now, leading the world in rapidly growing numbers of coronavirus cases. The New York Times reports the Virus Outbreak in the u. S. Sunbelt is worse than in any country. Theres no country in the world where confirmed coronavirus cases are growing as rapidly as it is in those states. The paper writes, the sunbelt has become the global virus capital. Looking at several states in particular, florida yesterday reported nearly 10,000 new cases. There are more than 220,000 positive cases statewide and the test Positivity Rate has been above 14 for more than a week. Texas hit record highs yesterday with more than 9,600 hospitalized and 98 deaths. Over the past week, 15 pergs of the reported tests in the state have come back positive, the highest rate since the pandemic. Arizona has announced it is delaying the start of its school year as the number of coronavirus cases spike across the state. More than 3,500 new cases have been reported there in just the last 24 hours. Meanwhile, the mayor of phoenix says her city is in a crisis situation. The federal government has provided a testing surge in other states, such as texas and florida. I request that they do the same in phoenix. When you see that positive rate that steven just mentioned, above 25 , we are only testing the sickest of the sick. We need more help with testing right now. We also need more medical personnel. We are stretched right now in our hospital ceos tell me its going to get worse over the next two weeks. This weekend, i went to a testing site where people waited over eight hours. I saw a man who was sweating and struggling to breathe try to refill his gas tank because he had run out of fuel on our city street. If anyone looks at that and just doesnt want to do better for him, i dont understand it. We need that testing surge in particularly our latino areas of phoenix. We are in a psoriascrisis right. The resources and testing have not reached every part of our state. For months now, we have asking for additional testing. Time has come to deliver. For months . Literally youve been asking for months for this in anticipation of the situation youre in . Phoenix is the largest city in the country to have not received one of the large testing sites from the federal government. Even in april, the houston mayor was announcing everyone who wanted a test could get one whereas we were struggling for our critical workers and sickest patients to get testing. At the time, i asked why they had such a better result than we did and learned that the federal government had set up mass testing sites. At the time they told me we didnt have the number of cases to justify it, but unquestionably, we do now with the highest positive rate in the country. We went for our first 50,000 cases in arizona, it took five months. And then it doubled within two weeks. The rate of growth is staggering and scary. A plea from the mayor of phoenix, arizona. Joining us now, Infectious Disease physician and medical Director Special pathogens unit at the Boston University school of medicine, dr. Rahid bedelia. Great to see you again this morning. This must be incredibly frustrating for you to watch because youve been with us for four months now saying testing is the key, testing is the key, testing is the key. We have to identify who has coronavirus. We can isolate them, get our arms around this. Why, why now as we sit on july the 9th cannot the city of phoenix get enough tests . Willie, thanks for having me. Youre right. And i think partly what is frustrating is that we saw the country go through this already in the northeast and we know where the issues would arise. The issue is not just in the van availability of tests, but when theyre getting tested, youre hearing from everywhere from georgia to arizona that theyre waiting for a really long time for those results. The impact that has, if you dont know youre sick or youre not quarantining or theyre not able to Contact Trace you because you tested and came back positive, then youre in the Community Spreading that disease. So what you heard the mayor speak about, the idea that theyre seeing expo nentsal rise, that continues. That becomes a corner zone. I heard your conversation about opening schools. The evidence shows that children are, yes, onethird or half as likely to get this infection. Many children do not get as sick as adults, but some do. They end up in the hospital. They have this mysterious multi system syndrome that shows up in some children. We dont understand quite yet what the pathology of that is. And when you look around the world, when you look at the risk of this transmission, a huge part of that is tied to prevalence. The countries that have done some small opening or altered some opening of schools, its very much tied into the prevalence of disease in those communities. So if we want to open schools, with a major thing that we have to do is drive those cases down. And thats the thing the president is talking about, a national reopening of the schools, even as each state, each School District has different numbers of cases and the crisis is more acute in some places than others. So as you lisp to the cdc saying it will now change its guidelines after the president protested them and relaxed them, make them less restrictive as the president called them, what do you make of that where the cdc is actually stepping back a little bit and saying, well, maybe we will make it easier to reopen schools . Well, just stepping back a little bit, right, talking about the elements that go into the Successful School opening, it would require all of us to do our part, as i said, with Community Transmission. But then we need the physical engineering, having the ability to physically distance kids, do we deploy mask necessary what areas, social engineering, do we put teachers and students into pods, how do we get the logistic supplies, disinfection, gloves, the ability to wear those gloves and masks for kids who cant get them at home. And then to link everything with the outbreaks that happen in those settings. We all want to open schools. Opening schools is the correct thing to do socially for our children, for their physical development, for their mental development, social development, but doing it without the correct, you know, preparation, if you open schools and youre doing it without those preparations, youre looking at a Public Health disaster timed exactly for october and november. I mean, i think its shortsided for the president to say what he said. So when i see that tweet from the president to the cdc, you know, its a bit more damaging than what it appears at first blush. I think that the School Reopening versus Public Health is like the new false dichotomy. Youre being asked to choose one or the other rather than realizing that you need the resources for a to have b open. Dr. Badelia, thank you vep,s a always. Still ahead, President Trumps threat to cut off funding for schools if they do not fully reopen this fall. That story next on morning joe. Ll that story next on morning joe. I had shingles. Horrible. A young thing like me . [camera man] actually anyone 50 or over is at increased risk for shingles. The pain, the burning my husband had to do everything for weeks. And the thing is, theres nothing you can do about it [camera man] well, shingles can be prevented. Shingles can be whaaat . [camera man] prevented. You can get vaccinated. Frank they have shingles vaccines whaaat . Thats what i said. Were taking you to the doctor. Not going through that again. [camera man] you can also get it from your pharmacist talk to your doctor or pharmacist about getting vaccinated. 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Its what with comcast business, your Small Business can work faster, with powerful internet from the nations largest gigspeed network. Work safer, with all your connected devices automatically protected by securityedge. And work anywhere, with comcast business at home, our new businessgrade Internet Solution for remote workers. Whatever your business needs, comcast business has the solutions to help you not just bounce back, but bounce forward. Call or go online to find out more. Lets fwring in now catdy kay. Lets get specific on the president and schools. Yesterday he was tweeting, he wrote, in germany, denmark, norway, sweden, and many other countries, schools are open with no problems. The dems think it would be bad for them politically if the u. S. Schools open before the november election. May cut off funding if not open. The president tweeted i disagree with the cdc on their tough and expensive guidelines for opening schools. While they want them open, they are asking schools to do impractical things. I will be meeting with them, three exclamation points. Among the cdc guidelines the white house finds too restrictive are limiting the sharing of toys, electronic sharing devices and books. Here is mike pence on the administrations next steps with schools. The president said today, we just dont want the guidance to be too tough. Thats the reason why next week cdc will be issuing a new set of tools, five different documents that will be giving even more clarity on the guidance going forward. Katty kay, yesterday you had the president threatening schools with funding. He cant do that on his own, but he could veto new congressional funding for schools if he was so inclined. This is an extraordinary step, bringing in the politics of reelection to suggest the democratic governs and mayors are keeping children out of schools and oftentimes keeping parents out of the workplace to prevent donald trump from winning reelection. Look, i dont think theres a single parent, whether theyre in a blue state or red state that doesnt want their child to go back to school in september if it can be done safely. Everybody is trying to work, right . We all know what its like to be home with small children. The question is, can it be done safely . And to some extent, the president is right when he tweets they have done it in those Northern European countries without a problem. There have not been big spikes related to schools in places like denmark and germany since the children went back to school. But here is the catch. They did it after a huge amount of deliberation with exactly the kinds of restrictions that the cdc is suggesting schools implement. So its costly. They need more funding, not less funding, in order to put those restrictions in place and they do need to follow closely protocols cancer have been hammered out in torturous negotiations in Northern European countries between teachers unions, schoolsboards and the federal government in order to do things like have the desks six feet apart, not having the kids sharing toys, not having the kids eating communally in some places, having the parents arriving at staggered times. All of that costs money, actually, to implement. And some schools in denmark, theyve put in extra bathrooms so there are hand washing facilities. I think if you look at what the cdc is suggesting, its very much in line with what those European Countries have done in order to do it successfully. America can do it and it has the advantage of the road map of other countries that have done it. But dont take that road map and rip it up and throw it out the window because then you wont be doing it safely. Coming up, majority leader steny hoyer is standing by. He joins our conversation, straight ahead. But first, we will go live to phoenix for the latest on the surging number of covid cases there and the implications for hospitals. Morning joe is back in moment. Morning joe is back in moment. Its the 11 05 endlessorders migraine medicine the 2 20 backtoback calls migraine medicine its called ubrelvy the migraine medicine for anytime, anywhere a migraine attacks without worrying if its too late or where you happen to be. One dose of ubrelvy can quickly stop migraine pain and debilitating symptoms in their tracks within two hours. Unlike older medications, ubrelvy is the first pill of its kind to directly block cgrp protein believed to play a role in migraine attacks. Do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. Few people had side effects, most common were nausea and tiredness. A migraine can strike anytime, anywhere. Ask about ubrelvy, the anytime, anywhere migraine medicine. Cmon pizzas here. Whoa is that shaq . This is my new pizza the shaqaroni and its bigger than pizza because for every shaqaroni sold, 1 is donated to the Papa Johns Foundation for building community. Welcome back. A few minutes ago, we played for you the mayor of phoenix warning that her city needs more medical equipment and more testing to ensure the testing of the coronavirus. Vaughn, what does it look like on the ground there . I think it looks a lot more like what the mayor here in phoenix has outlined as opposed to what the likes of Vice President pence just yesterday outlined. Its been quite stunning. It was one week ago when the Vice President flew in air force 2 here. But when youre looking at the numbers, arizona is arguably in worse shape than anywhere in the United States and is competitive with anywhere across the entire world. That is why in listening to that Coronavirus Task force update in which Vice President pence made a couple more assertions, it was head turning for folks on the ground here in arizona. Take a listen to the first claim made by the Vice President yesterday. We are seeing early indications of a percent of positive testing flattening in arizona and florida and texas. Now, the data here in arizona runs completely counter to that suggestion. That number, that percent positive number was about 5 in early and midmay. Over the course of two months, its risen by 20 percentage points. In just the last 48 hours, the percent positive rate here is 31 . It is only rising. Now lets take a listen to the second claim made by the Vice President yesterday. In arizona and florida, we are beginning to see declining numbers of emergency room visits, as well. Well, that is flat out wrong because yesterday in arizona, there were 2,008 new er visits for covidsuspected patients, which is the record in arizona. So the Vice President suggested the number was going down, but just yesterday, it was the record. This is a government not only at the national level, fbut here i the state that is continually trying to justify the reopening and the staying open of businesser here. Restaurants are still open, malls are still open, casinos are still open here. Yet you continue to see these numbers rise. There are more than 150 deaths reported in just the last 48 hours, as well. This is a state that is far from going on a downward trajectory and the numbers right now are only indicating a continued rise. So, vaughn, you may be standing in the hot spot in america right now. As you said, many businesses are still open. Is there will from the governor . Is there political will to do something and to close those businesses until the state of arizona has its arms around coronavirus . It was a week and a half ago that i asked governor duesy, why not reimplement a stayathome order . Why not shut down Indoor Dining service . Because the numbers are only expected to continue to rise. Fast forward two weeks later, theres Record Number of icu beds in use and report number of hospitalizations. There is an all call out. I was up over in prescott, arizona, north here in phoenix just this weekend at a fourth of july celebration. Maybe one out of seven, maybe one out of eight folks were actually wearing a mask among thousands who were gathered. The governor has urnlged peopleo wear a mask, but in parts of the state, they just arent. I was talking with an old surgeon who had retired two years ago from the one hospital in prescott. He said he was frustrated because it takes more than urging. It takes a demonstration, leadership. This state has been open for more than two months and to have these calls now, folks frankly arent adhering to the to the level he needs to and he has put his name forward to get back into the hospital because there is a shortage of doctors, of nurses. This system has been overwhelmed in the course over the last two months and its left this state in a challenging position. One other note, willie, understanding the scope of the spread here is still far from being controlled. Because of the lack of testing. It still takes more than a week in most cases to get testing results back. So even if somebody is positive, theyre largely still out and about and Maricopa County was making the case that Contact Tracing is almost irrelevant when you have such Widespread Community spread. You cant keep up with the pace in which the covid is spreading across this gator valley and across this greater state. And for all those reasons, astounding that the Vice President claims there is a flattening of the curve in arizona and that is absolutely not the case. Vaughn hilliard, good to see you. Joining us now, director of the center for Infectious Research and policy and a professor at the medical school, dr. Michael osterlme. And dr. Leena wynn. She previously served as baltimores Health Commissioner. Shes out with a new opinion piece that lays out what she believes the Trump Administration needs to do to safely reopen schools in the fall. Dr. Wynn, dr. Osterhome, i want to talk with you about this picture of what weve seen from Vaughn Hilliards recording in the state of arizona and where you believe we are. You say there may not be a second wave of coronavirus, it may just be one big long first wave. At this point, we dont have any evidence this will be like an influenza pandemic where basically you see a first wave, cases disappear regardless of what humans do and two to three months later, you have a second surge. This is a coronavirus pandemic and what is happening is this is like a forest fire. It keeps burning and burning looking for human wood. That is what its doing as you can tell successfully in this country. So dr. Osterhome, how do we stop that wood from providing itself to this disease that is, as you say, burning through so many states . What can we do this morning to slow the spread . We have to understand that we have to go back to square one. Basically, what we tried to do in march and april that other countries did and did quite successfully is respond to a house on fire. What we did is we didnt put it all out. We let it come back. While other countries now are actually operate, a minimal number of cases, theyre begin to go reestablish a more normal way of live. Were back to saying if we dont bring this all down, it will continue. Its kind of like arguing with 1002 2yearolds. Basically this virus is going to keep going. You have a better chance of winning an argument with the 2yearolds than you do with this virus. Dr. Wynn, lets get more specific on schools and what youre writing about in the Washington Post. This is front and center because the president of the United States has said he will cut off federal funding to schools that dont open. Again, we want to underlie he doesnt have the unilateral funding to do that. But where are we in terms of schools . New york has a plan out right now that will have a staggered opening. They reserve the right to change that plan as we go along in the next few weeks or so. But what about this idea from the white house that has actually gotten the cdc to shift some of its guideline toes be less restrictive on schools, that schools ought to just be open this fall . Yeah, i agree with the white house in one way, which is that we should set the goal of having schools be open in the fall because of all the positive effects that well have for our children. But the problem is, you cant just set a goal and a timeline unless youre also willing to say lets do the hard work to make that happen. And that is the piece that is missing. The single most important thing that we can do to help schools open in the fall is to keep the level of infection as low as we can for the summer. Youve got hot spots right now in arizona, texas, california, among others, where the level of infection in the community is one in a hundred. So if you have a school that highways a thousand people, on day one you walk in and there are ten people who are asymptomatic with infection infecting others. There are outbreaks that will happen that first day potentially. You are going to have to shut down the schools again. So we have to do the hard work now. And probably in the summer were going to have to close down, as dr. Osterhome said, and maybe close down restaurants and bars in many of these states in order to suppress the level of infection. And the president should be doing everything that he can to support schoolsel reopening, to protect the health and well being of students and more importantly, teachers and staff and their families and not threaten or shame these schools that are trying their best to safely reopen. Dr. , Mike Barnacle has the question for you. Mike. Dr. Osterhome, off of that conversation that we just had, every time i hear Robert Redfield on television, centers for disease control, he seemingly makes suggestions about what we might want to do as a country to reduce the level of infection. Hes almost saying, you know, might be a good idea if more people wore masks. Weve just heard Vaughn Hilliard reporting from arizona that at a recent july 4th event that he went to in arizona, he estimated that maybe one out of seven or one out of eight were actually Wearing Masks. And you see that around the country. Im sure you see it in minnesota, as well, people not Wearing Masks in public. Do you think a more recertificative set of guidelines from the cdc lets leave the president out of this but from the cdc would make a significant difference in lowering the infection rate . We need to understand as a nation that were just in the very early days of this pandemic yesterday. Maybe 7 of the u. S. Population has been infected to date. This virus will not rest until it gets to 50 to 70 of the population infected, and only then it will slow down. So what we need right now are really firm and very specific recommendations about what to do and then the willingness to carry them out. Part of my concern is that weve not convinced much of the u. S. Population that this is yet important and needed to be done. So governors right now are feeling the pinch you in a big way to saying that they have large numbers of their population saying dont do these things, other saying to do them. And i think what we need right now is the kind of moral leadership across Public Health, across government, across our society to say, wake up, america, either get with the program or the next year is going to be one ongoing tragedy. And so i think that its a combination of things, but, yes, we need to distance. We need to wear respiratory protection. We need to understand that we will pay for this one way or another if we dont do what you just said. Dr. Wynn, its catkatty kay here. We need a more radical shutdown. Its something america never did firmly enough and radically enough. In melbourne, australia, they sent people into lockdown for six weeks because they had a spike. Their spike was 191 people. Thats it. Is it more than restaurants and schools and bars that need to shut . Do we need a much more radical reshutdown of certain hot spots in america in order to get to a position where we have any hope of reopening schools safely . Yeah, katty, you make a really good point. When we look at other countries that have successfully opened their schools, what they did was to shut down completely the first time. That way, they were able to lower the infection rate at such a low level that they could pick up on new cases and Contact Trace and isolate their way out of this mess that we were frankly all in. But we never did what. We did do the shutdown and a lot of people gave up a lot and sacrificed a lot to get there the first time. But even at our lowest point, we had 20,000 infections a day. We had Community Spread that was ongoing. We never fully shut down the first time, despite the many sacrifices that people made. The problem is, i just dont think that the American People have the or actually that our politicians, frankly, dont have the political will to shut down all over again. And as a result, i think the best that we can do is to try to suppress the level of infection low enough that will allow some of our most essential functions like schools to be able to come back. But to the earlier point, i think the cdc does need to have a lot more, actually much more stricter guidelines than we currently have. And the last thing that we should be doing is to remove these guidelines if the problem is that we cant reopen because of the guidelines. The problem is not the guidelines. The problem is that we need to be doing a lot more work within our schools and in general in order the, again, ensure the safety of the public. Dr. Osterhome, the w. H. O. Came out and said there is evidence the coronavirus is airborne. What are the implications of that if its true . Well, willie, as you know, weve talked about that on this show. I proposed several months ago the yad that these smaller particles that float in the air are going to be part of this picture. Thats why i keep coming back to the issue over and over again, its not just one method to protect us. Distancing is huge. Distance, distance and distance. That only occurs when people are not congregating altogether. We have seen so many big outbreaks in the last two to three weeks in bars around this country where 100 to 200 to 300 people are infected in a given night or a given day. Large indoor events. Same thing. Were going to see these. Thats where this airborne transmission becomes a very important part of what were working against. So it is key and it is one that this is why we have to have the distancing in place if were going to stop this virus from the kind of transmission were seeing right now. Doctors michael osterhome and leena wynn, were grateful for your input always and your medical advice and opinions about where we are, often sobering, but important to hear. Thank you very much. The weekly jobless claims report just crossed the wire. The Labor Department says 1. 3 million americans filed for Unemployment Benefits last week. That brings the total over the past 16 weeks of the pandemic to 50 million. We will talk about that new number, next with House Majority leader steny hoyer who is calling on Senate Republicans to pass the heros act. The bill that would provide another round of stimulus checks to americans. Were coming right back on morning joe. Cans were coming right back on morning joe. The open road is open again. And wherever youre headed, Choice Hotels is there. Book direct at choicehotels. Com. But what if you could startdo better than that . At choicehotels. Com. Like adapt. Discover. Deliver. In new ways. To new customers. What if you could come back stronger . Faster. Better. At comcast business, we want to help you not just bounce back. But bounce forward. And now, were committed to helping you do just that with a powerful and reliable internet and voice solution at a great price. Call or go online today. Welcome back to morning joe. A live picture at 8 44 in the morning in washington, d. C. Of the United States capital. Joining us now, House Majority leader democratic congressman steny hoyer of maryland. Congressman, great to see you this morning. We appreciate the time. We just got a new jobless number crossing the wire, another 1. 3 million americans filing for Unemployment Benefits. That brings the 16week total since the beginning of this Coronavirus Crisis to 50 million americans who have filed for unemployment. You all in congress are working on a new bill, the heros act, 3. 5 trillion is sitting in the senate. Mitch mcconnell says its not going to make its way out of there. What more can you do on the house side to help stem some of this bleeding that we continue to see in the economy . Well, of course, we passed, as you know, weeks ago, the heros act to which you referred three plus trillion dollars. Really in three staurchbls, first of all, to help states, i saw mike rose with you today. He pointed out that what were trying to do is staunch the revenue loss so that states can stay in business so municipalities and cities can stay in business and will not lay off critical personnel, like police and fire and sanitation workers as well, of course, as teachers. The president is urging that we go back to school. I think most americans want their kids to get back to school, but they want them to go back safely. And they dont want them to be bringing covid19 back to the homes. That is all going to take resources, as so many of the people that you interviewed this morning, say. And what Mitch Mcconnells response was, let the states go bankrupt. I suppose hes saying let the unemployment rolls grow. Dont help families. Dont invest more in testing and tracing and trying to prevent this disease from spreading even furg than it has. This is a crisis, but the republicans are twiddling their thumbs while rome is essentially burning, mixed metaphors. The fact is the senate should have acted weeks ago on their own program. They didnt think the heros act was exactly what we needed, then they should have acted on their own. But theyve been not acting, not working, considering judges. But they have not been dealing with the crisis that confront our people. We now have over 130,000 depths, over 3 Million People who have contracted this vie rus and the ought to be acting. If they dont like our alternative, willie, pass their own and lets see if we can make them compatible. That first round of money was supposed to get us through these early days of a crisis that many people hoped would last a month or soer two months perhaps. The ppe Program Helping Small Businesses and states until they opened again. So how much more money can the federal government pour into this and what would a bill look like that would pass the test by mcconnell . I dont know the answer to that. First on of all, of course, the president started this whole thing out with this is a hoax. 130,000 plus people are dead because the president thought it was a hoax. Not directly attributable to the president s words, but certainly his inaction. We could have saved literally tens of thousands of lives had we acted decisively. But this president ignores the facts, ignores reality, conjures up his own reality and fails to respond to real problems. That was true. You talked earlier today about the russian situation where we had intelligence that said the russians were paying people to kill our troops and the president either did not want to know the information, knew the information and didnt want to act on it and, for whatever reasons, his people did not want to act on it. Then this pandemic, which we are confronting, mcconnell and mccarthy in the house of representatives, the majority minority leader in the house of representatives said no, lets wait, lets see what was. Well, we see what has happened. It has gotten much, much worse. So when you ask me what can pass, i understand from speak egg pelosi that shes heard from some senators, republican senators urging her to see if we can get something done. They know that action is required. But mcconnell does not put on the table your question. Okay. What do you think ought to be done . And that is what we need. Weve done our work. Weve addressed what we think are the major problems confronting. That is the resources for local government, state and local governments, investment and testing and tracing. And making sure that ppe and other programs, Unemployment Insurance, have been extended. But we still need to do more. As is evident by the realities on the ground which the president ignores and the president sets a terrible, terrible example. Your previous speaker just said, you know, we need to distance, distance, distance. What does the president do . He denies that in his actions and in his words. Congressman, Mike Barnacle has a question for congressman, how are you today . Its good to see you. We are now six months into a Global Economic crisis. And we are well into, here in the United States, an economic crisis all its own. What is in this pending bill that you hope to propose and pass in the house regardless of what Mitch Mcconnell does. Is there anything in this pending bill that would take care of untold numbers of people who are renting and face eviction and people who own homes and are facing foreclosure. Is there anything in the bill, sight specific rifle shot to help them . There is in the heroes bill the 175 billion. 100 billion for renters who on july 1st had a rental obligation. And 75 billion for those who are having trouble meeting their mortgage payments. Thats 175 billion in the heroes bill. But you say rifle shot. We passed that bill as a single rifle shot, as you point out, last week. And the senate, of course, has not taken it up. But we have acted on that specific item so that they not only have the heroes act but they have what you call a rifle shot. They can take that billup, pass it and give 100 billion and 75 billion to mortgage holders and 100 billion for those who owe rent and cant pay it because they dont have the resources. In the heroes bill, we extended the Unemployment Insurance deadline until the end of the year. Critically important when you see the kind of numbers we saw today with 1. 3 million additional americans applying for unemployment. The senate is not dealing with this as a crisis. We have dealt with it four times as a crisis in a bipartisan way where republicans joined us in the house. We joined republicans in the senate to pass bills overwhelmingly that death with this issue. Why they have now all of a sudden decided, no, we dont need to do any further action. We can delay is beyond me, and the American People have got to be extraordinarily frustrated and angry about the inaction in the United States senate. All right. House majority leader steny hoyer of maryland. Leader hoyer, we appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so much. Coming up next here on morning joe, the president of the United States just tweeted out of nowhere president ial harassment. 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A Digital Foundation from vmware helps you redefine whats possible. Now. From the hospital shifting to remote patient care in just 48 hours. To the university moving hundreds of apps quickly to the cloud. Or the City Government Going Digital to keep Critical Services running. You are creating the future on the fly. And we are helping you do it. Vmware. Realize whats possible. Welcome back to morning joe. Five minutes until the top of the hour. We look at the United States Supreme Court. That body expected to end its current session today with the release of its rulings on whether the president s financial records must be produced when subpoenaed. The decision should announced at 10 00 a. M. , about an hour from now, though the court can hold the cases over for reargument in the fall, though thats a rare occurrence. At issue is whether three congressional committees and a new york grand jury may obtain President Trumps tax records and other financial documents from banks and accountants who hold them. The president , of course, has fought the release of the records in three lower courts and lost at every level arguing he cannot be investigated while in office. So katty kay. You have three house committees. The United States congress, who wants to see President Trumps financial records and the Manhattan District Attorney who wants his tax returns in the story about his alleged may payoffs to women. What is your expected outcome here . Where will the Supreme Court fall . Its been a super easy couple of weeks from the Supreme Court and this one perhaps the most consequential, politically, willie. Democrats have two ways to go. If the court rules if this conservative court rules in democrats favor, are they convinced they do now get to see before november the 3rd the president s tax returns that theyve been asking for for almost four years now . If the court rules against democrats and Southern District of new york, what happens then . Is that the end of the road . Is the discussion over the president s tax returns and whether the American People should see them is that done . I think its almost impossible given the way the court has rules on different issues over the last two weeks to guess how the court is going to rule. Im looking at what the democrats do in response to both of those rulings, to both of those possibilities. Weve got a couple of all caps tweets within the last 20 minutes or so. The president first writes harassment and prosecutorial misconduct, perhaps referring to a different story he saw on another network. You wonder whats on his mind, right, willie . Yeah, exactly. He knows when 10 00 is coming. A key witness in the impeachment case of President Trump, Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman yesterday announced his retirement from the United States army because of his lawyer says, a campaign of bullying, intimidation and retaliation by the president. Vindman was the top ukraine expert on the National Security council and part of the house impeachment probe. He testified about the infamous july 25th, 2019, call between trump and ukraines president that was at the heart of the inquiry. Lieutenant colonel vindman said the president s conduct on that call was improper and inappropriate. Vindman was ousted from his white house job after the senate acquitted trump. His twin brother also Lieutenant Colonel was escorted from the white house on that same day. Alexander vindmans lawyer says the 21year veteran was retiring because, quote, it has been made clear his future within the institution he has dutifully served will forever be limited. Lieutenant colonel vindman was set to be promoted to full colonel this year. Before we go here, you have a Lieutenant Colonel who served for more than 20 years in the United States army walking away from service because of, his attorney says, the intimidation he received from the Trump Administration. Both he and his brother are portraits of people who came to this country, immigrants who came to this country and showed their love of citizenship and love of country by joining the United States army. This is a case of premeditated cruelty on the part of the president of the United States who i can guarantee you never once established eyeball to eyeball contact with Lieutenant Colonel vindman and said i didnt like what you did. He is a bully and a coward and the vindmans are the heroes. Mike barnicle, katty kay, thank you very much. Thanks to all of you for watching. Well be right back here tomorrow at this time. For now, Stephanie Ruhle picks up the coverage. Hey, steph. Hey there willie. Good morning. Im Stephanie Ruhle. Its thursday, july 9th. Here are the facts at this hour. More than 61,000 new cases of coronavirus have been reported in just over the last 24 hours. According to reuters, that is the biggest increase in any country in a single day throughout this pandemic. In all, well over 3 Million People have gotten the virus while more than 133,000 american