Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20180828

My love for america will be weighed favorably against them. I lived and died a proud american. We are citizens of the worlds greatest republic, a nation of ideals, not blood and soil. We are blessed and are a blessing to humanity when we uphad those ideas at home and in the world. We helped lift more people from tyranny and poverty than anywhere in the world. We weaken this when we hide behind walls rather than tear them down. When we doubt the power of our ideals rather than trust them to be the great force for change theyve always been. We have always had so much more in common with each other in disagreement. If only we remember that, and give each other the benefit of the presumption that we all love our country. We will get through these challenging times. We will come through them stronger than before. We always do. Do not despair of our present difficulties, but believe always in the promise and greatness of america, because nothing is inevitable here. Americans never quit. We never surrender. We never hide from history. We make history. Fair well, fellow americans. God bless you, and god bless america. David ignatius, what a wonderful, what a strong, what a timely message from a man who has dominated american political life for 30, 40 years and will surely influence americans and those who seek to serve in the public for many more years to come. Joe, john mccains final statement, which you just read very movingly, is a soldiers statement to his country. Its striking, the belief he had to his very last day that the country could solve its problems if only it could escape this bitter partisanship that through john mccains last several decades became more and more of a problem. I was always struck with mccain in every encounter i had with him and listening to you now just read that last statement how much john mccain believed that American Values were our greatest source of strength. Thats not just a line in a speech. He really believed it. He thought that when we were americans, when we represented these values of freedom, the whole world caught fire and moved in our direction. Hed watched the cold war, wed watched our successes, and i think it was just a bitter disappointment to him to see a person who we thought had really low moral value, not a strong character, as leader. Not just because of the bitter fights that he had with donald trump but because he thought that quality, that lack of moral character weakened the country. Its interesting how, joe, thats how he chose to say goodbye to us. To remind us of the importance of character. It is really is. Mike barnicle. I was struck when we heard the newss senator mccains passing, just, the despair that i saw on mikas face and the despair she felt the rest of the day, and here was obviously a democrat, a lifelong democrat, who never voted for republicans. Certainly didnt vote for john mccain. They clashed from time to time, as senator mccain clashed with me and clashed with quite a few people, because he was a tough fighter. God bless him for that. But the one thing that i think mika noticed even as a liberal democrat was the greatness of the man. The greatness of the leadership. She saw something in him that she saw in her father that she saw in other president s and diplomats that she had crossed in her life and mika just knew that somebody great had left our presence, and, my god, anyone that feels a sense of despair only need to read john mccains final words to understand not only why he was so great but why americas greatest days really could lie ahead if we only get out of our way. Our own way. Well, joe, john mccain would be the last person who would want anyone to despair today, and i think maybe what mika saw and what she thought whenever she saw or heard john mccain was quite simple. She saw america, and she saw an american, and she saw someone whose life story symbolizes, in a sense, what this country is all about. His history is our history. We dont teach our history very well to our children or to one another, but his history is fairly familiar now. Given his passing. In his history, it is one of continued survival in the face of unbelievable obstacles. Five and a half years. Ive stood in the cell where he spent most of those five and a half years in hanoi, and its not a comfortable feeling, all the years later when i stood in it, and its abhorrent to think of any human being being treated the way he was treated. I think i mentioned yesterday he once told me when i asked him that he once went three months without seeing the sun, because he was held in solitary confinement and he once went nearly five months without seeing the moon. Think about that, and think about his resilience. Thats the United States of america. Our resilience as a republic in over coming all sorts of historical obstacles. Thats john mccain. Well, and unfortunately, the man that drew so much attention yesterday and actually only elevated john mccains standing was a man who as the Washington Post wrote some time ago, was a man who had five deferments from vietnam. You said john mccain wasnt a war hero, he said, and while john mccain was living there in those horrid conditions being beaten up, being tortured, having bruises that would stay with him the rest of his life, donald trump was living the high life in manhattan. Once told howard stern that avoiding std was his his own vietnam, and that man, President Trump who has said he wants an elaborate, multimillion dollar parade down pennsylvania avenue to honor the military, he spent much of monday resisting all calls to simply lower the white house flag, in honor of a prisoner of war and Public Servant senator john mccain. As 18 Senior Administration officials independently paid tribute to john mccains heroism and sacrifice, the president refused to budge. According to the in tnew york times ignored repeated requests from Vice President pence. Repeated requests from chief of staff john kelly, at three events in the morning, and early afternoon trump ignored requests for comments on the former p. O. W. And war hero. Mr. President thank you. Thank you. Sir thank you. Lets go. Mr. President thank you. Mr. President , do you have any thoughts on john mccain . Do you have any thoughts at all about john mccain . Mr. President do you believe john mccain was a hero, sir . Guys, lets go. Keep moving. Nothing at all about john mccain. Okay. Mr. President , the American Legions asked you to lower the flags to halfstaff. Any reaction to the American Legion . Any reaction lets go. Press, lets go. About john monccain. Why wont you say anything about john mccain . Gene, the smallness is, of course its, of course unrivaled. Yes. First of all. Secondly, the i dont know what word to use. Stupidity . I dont know that you use stupidity against a man that ran through a fields 16 republicans and then beat Hillary Clinton for president of the United States, derangement . Too many words attached to derangement. Too many meanings attached to derangement, but donald trump should have known what any other adult in Donald Trumps position there would have known. Uhhuh. Which is by doing what he did yesterday, he did nothing but elevate john mccain even more. Mccain was laughing at the gates of st. Peter all day yesterday, or if he decided to take a detour and raise a little hell, he had loose feucifer winking a saying, thats pretty good. You really set that sucker up. Mccain had another day where we all get an opportunity to look at the greatnesses of his character compared to this clown who wouldnt even lower the flag to halfmast. I think maybe the phrases you were looking for was inadequacy as a human being. There are certain things that you would see or understand that i might see and understand that he doesnt, because of his enormous and overwhelming, President Trump, because of his enormous and overwhelming narcissism. That first clip when he was asked yesterday, the way he sat there with his armed crossed was, was just you know you would expect better, really, of a 3yearold. Maybe not a 2yearold, but a 3yearold and some part of him stop growing at about 2 1 2. The sort of me, me, me part. You know . Hes at it again this morning tweeting away in his own defense, i guess not on the mccain matter but in general. You know, john mccain, whatever you thought of his politics. You could disagree with him. It was impossible not to find him funny and entertaining at just a, and just a delight to talk to and be around, and also, you know, he had his clashes with President Trump. He saw who trump was, but he did something about it. I mean, he spoke out. Right. He spoke out with his vote at a particularly crucial juncture in this countrys recent history. Right. About the Affordable Care act, and you wonder, is any of that sort of bravery left in the Republic Party . You do wonder. And after yesterday, it was again, where were the statements of support . Johnny isakson came out and said it but the entire Republican Party should have come out. The point is not that i am shocked by Donald Trumps behavior in that it shows him to be a cruel, callous bully. Weve known that a very long time. Im shocked how selfdefeating it seems, almost every action he takes is. How selfdefeating. How hes harming himself. How hes elevating his opponents, how he does it so often in a way that no other adult effect president ceo, church leader, football coach. You name it. So selfdefeating. So the president reportedly finally gave in after a stern Public Statement from the American Legion. The National Commander said his 2 million members would strongly urge you to make an appropriate president ial proclamation. The white house soon lowered the flag to halfstaff and the president signed a proclamation. Which begins, despite our differences on policy and politics, i respect senator john mccains service to our country. It goes on to ask the Vice President to speak at mccains ceremony with top advisers kelly, mattis and bolton to attend and at a dinner we evangelical leaders last night trump read a brief appreciation. Our hearts and prayers are going to the family of senator john mccain. Going to be a lot of activity over the next number of days, and we very much appreciate everything that senator mccain has done for our country. So thank you very much. [ applause ] noah, again, why take the man 12 hours, 14 hour while his staff is begging him to do the right thing . Why did it take him so long . Why cant he get out of his own way . If reporting is correct and as you said the president is not stupid. He knows who his supporters are and where his support comes from and when a significant Veterans Group like the American Legion puts pressure on you, a man who really believes that veterans are on his side and who has veterans on his side, who has budged, thats good. But i do believe that the damage was done. A lot of what we saw yesterday was described as petty. Its really small, but i dont think its especially petty. These two men were representatives of very significant fissure within the american politics, within the conservative politic. They were representatives of camps that believe in combat over some really fundamental issues. Like comportment, power of persuasion versus being churlish. The natures American Immigration policy. Whether culturalism, homogeneity is prefer oable heterogeneity. John mccain was in favor that the maintenance of world peace can fall only on the United States alone. Donald trump has a very different vision for american politics. The fact that this combat continues beyond the grave is indicative of how powerful these issues are and resonant in our politics. We shouldnt dismiss this as petty. It is part of an ongoing battle for the republic itself. Hold on a second. Sorry. Excuse me. Noah, you didnt bring up abortion. You didnt bring up many ideological issues. I would guess john mccain voted with the Republican Party 90 of the time. He voted for trump the tax cuts. He voted against the getting rid of the Affordable Care act, but this was tribal at best. People hated john mccain, people that i knew, hated in the Republican Party, hated and loathed john mccain through the years, because he had friendships with democrats. Because he said nice things about joe biden. Because he didnt call barack obama a muslim in a disparaging way. I mean, seems to me if this is truly a fissure in the Republican Party, its a fissure that takes the party down because a word you used that seems most appropriate here is churlish. They hated mccain for not being churlish, for not being small, for not being the type of person who would mock and ridicule a man when he was dieing of cancer. Yeah. And democrats might dismiss this but within the conservative ferment there is a debate whether civility is a shackle impose and republicans and republicans alone that hinders their ability to appeal to a broader demographic. A real debate. Its one i fall in the john mccain camp with but others say civility is impose and republicans alone and it is designed to keep them from making broader appeals, aggressive appeals to not only their base but to independent voters who want to see a fight. That is the camp that donald trump represents and for conservatives Donald Trumps very presidency representative of how civility has hindered republicans abilities to win national office. Again yoshs agree with this, but this is a real debate in the Republican Party and to dismiss it entirely is to see the field to Donald Trumps camp. We do need to engage to it on terms sympathetic to them so their arguments can be dismissed. Policy issues, i disagree with john mccain on policy issues. For example, his fix agency on money in politics was wrongheaded and the Campaign Finance law deemed unconstitutional. I believe that is not a philosophical issue. Its a policy issue. Big philosophical debates are what were talking about here. Thats what we should focus on. Well, but, mike, were also talking about basic human decency. There you go. I disagree i disagreed with john mccain on many things. I i think it was patrick grafini said i did not issuppor john mccain. I was more conservative than john mccain and didnt vote for him in two primary processes that he ran in. But at the same time, he was an american hero. Hmm. And at some point we put down our swords. At some point, as patrick rafeeney said in brazing john mccain, he said something along the line of, oh, oh for the luxury of of of assuming that a leader would be a good character, and being able to focus on ideology, as rafeeney suggested. Weve got ton a poiten to a poi cant make the assumption the people were voting for are good and decent people. Something is terribly lost. Joe, the interesting, at least to me, the truly interesting aspect of the discussion that you and noah were just having is its about interparty splits, interparty ideology, and ideology splits and differences between both parties, and yet when you take what happened with the president s, with President Trumps treatment of john mccains death and the whole thing about lowering the flag to halfstaff, thats separates itself from what we just talked about. Thats, katy i think thats beyond americans know what it takes to go to a wake, stand in line and pay their respects to the deceased. Thats not politics. Inevitably someone will take a poll to see the reaction of what mr. Trump has done over the past days with regard to mr. Mccain but this element is beyond politics that i expect truly resonates among people. Yes. And no one invokes the idea of civility and how americans feel shackled by civility. Thats where we get into the discussion of Political Correctness meaning they cant speak their minds, but it is, there is something as you suggest, mike, common in the Human Experience in the way that we face death. And you can overcome differences and show your humanity and rise to the occasion and put differences a side you at critical moments. Thats what it means to be an adult. Adults have that ability to think, i have huge differences with this person, but in this particular moment, thats not what matters. Just think of the rivalry between john mccain and barack obama. They had huge differences of policy between them. On the role of government, the size of government, on the issue of war and American Military intervention around the world. The two men were philosophically very divided but john mccain found a moment at the smith dinner, just before the election before he lost to barack obama to rise to the occasion and pay tribute to barack obama as a man. You can over come politics and be civil and are not shackled by Political Correctness. This is about humidity not politics. Also, heidi what a joke for republicans to suggest that theyve been forced to play by marcus of queensberry rules for the past 40 years but its just the big, bad democrats who have played tough. Im sure john mccains family looking back at how he was treated in the 2000 primary would think differently. I mean, the party of, you know you can just go back and look at whats happened in South Carolina politics. Seems year in, year out, in republican primaries. Republicans have not been shackled by being too kind and being too civil. In fact, its quite the opposite, and if you talk to democrats, they will tell you that theyre the ones who unfortunately played, play too politely. Its just its nonsense, from both sides. Ask mike dukakis how civil and kind they were with the Willie Horton ad on john mccain how civil or kind it was to make up a story about one of his adopted children being an illegitimate out of wedlock child that really hurt him in South Carolina. We could have a long discussion about that, but i wanted to go back to the previous point, that Donald Trumps problems with mccain are not ideological, because donald trump is not ideological. They were personal. And to katys point, yes, it speaks to the basic ability of a grown, adult human being to be able to put aside those feelings, those personal feelings of what Governor Cuomo called effectively just jealousy of senator mccain and rise to the occasion and understand that that flag that flies above the white house is not his flag, and, in fact, that house is not his house. Its the peoples house. And to not be able to see through that and understand that he represents something greater and that this is not about his personal vendetta and fight with senator mccain. Is something that will be remembered, even though ultimately he was forced to lower the flag, again that is the imagery, joe that will be replayed whenever donald trump decides to return to his narrative about democrats or whoever his enemy is, disrespecting veterans, this was an act of great disrespect to a war hero. Not just a veteran, but a National Treasure and war hero. And, again, the smallness ns selfdefeating. It did not hurt john mccain, in fact, only elevated his status and made all of america realize just what we lost. Still ahead on morning joe breaking down the provisions to nafta which the president announced, translated Conference Call with the president of mexico, or as Msnbcs Ali Velshi put it, when the call was over we had simultaneous transition from the spanish to mexican president but not for the english to english, because the president made not a whole lot of sense there. There are only a few days left to take advantage of great deals like zero percent financing for sixty months on the built ford tough f150. So hurry and save big on ford, americas bestselling brand. Get zero percent financing for sixty months plus twentyeight hundred bonus cash on a 2018 f150 xlt equipped with 2. 7 liter ecoboost. Moderate to severe Rheumatoid Arthritis was intense. My moms pain from i wondered if she could do the stuff she does for us which is kinda, a lot. And if that pain could mean something worse. Joint pain could mean joint damage. 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Liberty. Liberty this is moving day with the best inhome wifi experience and millions of wifi hotspots to help you stay connected. And this is moving day with Reliable Service appointments in a twohour window so youre up and running in no time. Show me decorating shows. This is staying connected with xfinity to make moving. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and twohour appointment windows. Click, call or visit a store today. They used to call it nafta. Were going to call it the United Statesmexico trade agreement and get rid of the name nafta. I like to call this deal the United Statesmexico trade agreement. I think its an elegant name. I think nafta has a lot of bad con otherations for United States because it was a ripoff pap deal that was a horrible deal for our country. As far as canadas concerned we very started with cannia yet. We wanted to do mex kei aico an if it was possible to do. Canada, well start negotiations shortly. Ill be calling the Prime Minister very soon and well start negotiation and if theyd like to negotiate fairly well do that. I think with canada, frankly, the easiest thing we can do, tariff their cars coming in. Its a tremendous amount of money a very simple negotiation that could end in one day and wed take in a lot of money the following day, but i think well give them a chance to probably have a separate deal. We could have a separate deal or put it into this deal. Hes hes just making everything up as he goes along. There is no there is no deal. Its like north korea. He goes over to north korea. He declares victory. He tells you, you can go to sleep at night, never worrying about north korea nukes again. Because he went over and shook somebodys hand and he had a lot of cameras there taking pictures of him. And then you find out a couple weeks later, and certainly we found out this past week from Donald Trumps own intel community, that not only what he said was a lie, but in fact north korea is advancing on their nuclear technology. Here in this case he talks about an elegant name that hes created for the new u. S. mexico deal, which isnt even a deal. Theyre trying to discuss a framework, but there isnt even a deal. And he says he can get canada to step in and do a deal in a day . No no, he cant. David ignatius, i really dont know how to even address this. Hes come up with a name for a deal. Theres only one problem. Hes got no deal. What exactly happened yesterday . Well, hes got the beginnings of a deal, and, joe, i think that hes in my judgment, beginning to make a little progress, get a little momentum, on the trade front. What hes doing is clearing away the subsidiary, secondary issues. Weve been picking fights with our friends and neighbors, mexico, canada, europe. The real trade issue is china and its a big and important one. On President Trump isnt wrong. The imbalance there has been a problem for several decades. I think this mexico agreement is significant for one reason. It is an attempt to raise the wages paid to mexican auto workers and there it by have some upward movement on u. S. Auto workers wages at a time when we worry about stagnating american incomes is a worthy goal. Cars will cost a little more probably in the u. S. Under this deal, but the assumption is americans would be willing to pay that price as part of some improvement for their neighbors standards of listening. Its not much of a deal or not a lot in it. Its hauntingly similar to what was going to be in the Transpacific Partnership in terms of labor and Environmental Standards that trump nixed as soon as he got into office, but in terms of the particulars of his deal, theyre pretty good. He probably will get canada to go along. The europeans are signaling they would like now to solve some of their differences and then move on to everybodys real target of interest which is china. Bring in cnbcs dominic chu. Donald trump says hes blowing nafta up, getting rid of nafta. Just going to negotiate with mexico and worry about canada later. He can get that done in a day. Sounds pretty simple. Is that that simple . Not that simple. Like david was pointing out that the reason he is trying to take at least a mini victory lap, if you will, its because the framework david talked about puts at least a couple, maybe a couple of particulars to what ultimately President Trump is trying to do. This new deal would hypothetical if it were to kind of go forward first of all, autos is the big point of the deal. Its a huge economy industry between the canada side, the u. S. Side and mexico side. This new framework well call it is going to call on at least the manufacturers of autos in north america to make at least three quarters of that automobiles overall worth has to come from north america under these rules. At about 62. 5 . A bump up to qualify for the zero tariff situation nafta currently has. Also have to use more kind of locally sourced steel, more locally sources aluminum, auto parts, that sort of thing. Labor issue, one of the main sticking points. Because there is lower wages in mexico and automakers and Parts Manufacturers have been able to take advantage of the cheaper labor to put cheaper parts on the market for u. S. Sale and goods there. So now under this new framework, 40 to 45 of a car are going to have to be made by workers earning at least 16 an hour. Put us on more competitive footing. One of the big things, joe, the president wants to 1234signal a the deal. Whether or not they can get canada to agree is something else. Viewed as the u. S. And even in canada has been wanting for a while. We can see that we can cover the agreements, proposed agreements or deals effectively and complain them to the American Public quite well, but sometimes given the great dealmaker who sits in the white house today, theres an after effect of things that he claims are deals, that are not really deals. I cite last night wall street journal posted this news story. The Trump Administration pledged to pay farmers 4. 7 billion to offset losses from trade disputes with foreign buyers of u. S. Agriculture products. Agriculture secretary sonny perdue said the payments would protect farm is from unjustified tariffs some nations applied in response to President Trumps parade policies. So were a long way from any deals with mexico or canada being put together. And yet the after effect of all of this talk is, do you sense that the American People are on to this . That this guy hes not only not cutting deals but i mean, hes talking really nonsense . When you start getting involved in trade wars and protectionist policies there are winners and losers and not just winners in your own country and losers in other countries. Turns out as were discovering there are losesers in your own country because other countries retaliate against your aggressive trade practices, which is exactly why the white house had to step in with now what looks like a package that costs a lot more to try to protect American Farmers and the question i think for donald trump, particularly when it comes to china is, how long can he carry on the brinkmanship of ratcheting up the trade war with chine in, if it starts to really hurt American Farmers . And how quickly can they bail those farmers out and how much is it going to cost them . This is why for decades the mantra of the Republican Party has fwon tbeen to try to govgo e trade deals. Weve seen this around donald trump, perhaps the issue of north korea saying a deal has been done and actually the consequences seem to be a little further down the road that things were more complicated. And the deal is not necessarily all it was cracked up to be and potentially that deal is more harmful than we were, the status quo ante before that summit in singapore even took place. The idea of looking at what happens in this white house with a little more nuance and awareness of the complication of policy, because we have a president who likes to present things in black and white rather simplified way is something we should all learn to do. And lets remember. Trade wars are easy. Thats what donald trump said. And yet, gene robinson, look at the politics of this. Because it doesnt just happen in the vacuum of the United States of america with Donald Trumps meandering views on trade. Youve got a radicalized electorate in mexico, with the possibility of more antiamerican leaders coming in that will not strike positive deals with the United States and in canada donald trump for good reason is so unpopular after attacking canada nonstop its going to be extraordinarily hard for Justin Trudeau or any canadian politician to say, why, yes. Were going to go back in and reopen nafta, because donald trump wants to change the name. Yeah. First of all, President Trump definitely tests the limits of canadian niceness, because one of the things he does, he didnt mention the name of the canadian Prime Minister yesterday. Right, but he refers to Prime Minister trudeau as justin all the time to sort of diminish him. That doesnt go over well in canada. He wants to get canada signed up this week, basically, to, you know any trade deal is complicated. Two huge economies, but he wants to do it this week, because he wants to meet a deadline to get it to congress and start a 90day clock ticking and get it all signed before the new mexican president takes office, lopez obrador, who is well to the left of the current president pin yyetto and may wa Different Things out of a trade deal. One of the things that the current mexican president tried to insist on, on that phone call yesterday is we want canada in this thing. So it is, you know this is at best a protodeal at this point. It is, as someone said, a framework, and it was announced prematurely and in part i think because of the deadline but to grab attention, because he likes to be at the center of attention. Genes point about politics happening in other countries cannot be understated. One of things about this framework of this deal, the rules of origin are sort of ramped up already 62. 5 of products sold and applicable to this zero tax regime in nafta goes up to 75 on everything made indash product has to be made in nafta countries to qualify for that zero tariff thing. If canadas not in this, dont have steel, aluminum, impossible. The deal is functionally not applicable. By the way, the senate has control, rather, the congress has control of the american trade policy. The president is congress representative. The senate has the ability to weigh in on this on some point. If the deal falls apart it is incumbent on congress to say, up or down, whether this thing moves forward and congress should probe exercise its prerogative at some point. All right. Cnbcs dominic chu, thank you very much for being with us. Appreciate your insight. Still ahead, Rudy Giuliani keeps on attacking robert mueller. In an interview with the new york times. A new polling shows one of his arguments just isnt accurate and, my gosh, seems that more and more americans are backing what Robert Muellers doing and believing that the president is lying. Well be right back with those numbers when morning joe returns. I get it all the time. Have you lost weight . Of course i have ever since i started renting from national. Because national lets me lose the wait at the counter. And choose any car in the aisle. And i dont wait when i return, thanks to drop go. At national, i can lose the wait. And keep it off. Looking good, patrick. I know. vo go national. Go like a pro. Its a revolution in sleep. The new sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now, from 899, during sleep numbers biggest sale of the year. It senses your movement, and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. It even helps with this. So you wake up ready to put your pedal to the metal. And now, all beds are on sale. 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After several long poses and several attempts at pushing buttons, an aide was finally brought in to connect the line. Documentary filmmaker arlen parse tweeted yesterday as an experiment, he put that awkward oval Office Moment to veeps closing credits. Take a look. I look very much forward to it and i believe the president is on the phone. Enrique you know, you can hook him up. You tell me when. Oh he is a big thing. A lot of people waiting. President enrique pena nieto. Hello. You want to put that on this phone, please. Hello . It would be helpful. So veeps only julia louis drive is responded on twitter writing this experiment is a success, and by the way, it also works to curb your enthusiasm theme song as well. Heidi, ive heard people that have written parody for years, that donald trump makes it extremely difficult for them to continue what theyre doing. Whether its south park or whether its veep because reality has actually trumped parody and here it happens again. He creates the moment. Right . How is it what do you do . Other than just playing back what back what actually happened. And weve had so many of these awkward moments in the oval office and elsewhere that you won how much of this is really donald trump and how much donald trump just not briefing his staff. He just decided at the last minute hey guys i think this is a great idea lets have a Conference Call. All of a sudden arrange this. The second part that was hilarious it seemed like the mexican president also wasnt on the same page about what they were even going to call the agreement. He said lets call this the u. S. Mexico agreement because i dont have nafta. That has bad connotations, suggests he was going to cut canada out of it and the mexican president had to correct him and say no, we still need canada in this agreement. So this was really haphazard, not just in term of the Conference Call logistics itself but in terms what ethic they were doing with this agreement, partial agreement in the first place. Well see. Again, the president makes these great leaps forward then and you find out that theres actually nothing there. Weve seen it in north korea. Well see it probably with this deal that the president thinks he can get done with canada in day. Lots of luck there. Well be right back. I believe the president is on the phone. I dont know if you recognize my voice, but this is the president. Enrique. We can do this the easy way or the hard way. You can hook him up. Whos there . Whos talking . Have the courage to say something. Tell me when. Its a big thing. A lot of people waiting. Hello. You need to talk to me. I dont need to talk to you. I think you do. You want to put that on this phone. Put that cookie down now hello . Is this a fake hang up . Its a fake hang up. If you have psoriasis,. 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Drop a polite one paragraph statement. Let it go. Move on to other thing. But he cant get out of his way khe . Thats the incomprehensible thing about this president. Yesterday he had great economic news. Nasdaq hit 8,000. S p as well breaking records. Make that the story of your day rather than the fact of the way you mishandled and bungled the mccain situation and the fact, which was totally unnecessary. And then to blame it on social media for saying this is bad news, its not because of social media that we talk about the bad news in the white house, its because of the way the white house mishandles things and becomes this constant drama fest. He could have spoken just about the good news. He certainly could have. And thats what im sure a lot of people will be talking about this morning. Thank you so much. Always great having you. A lot more morning joe straight ahead. Well bring in Steve Kornacki on todays important perimetrimary in arizona and florida. Plus, as a jury is deliberating Paul Manaforts fate at the first trial last week his lawyers were meeting with prosecutors to avoid a second trial. Which means next month. Well tell you how that worked out, and whether there may be a plea deal in Paul Manaforts future. Morning joe is coming right back. Back highest in Investor Satisfaction with full Service Brokerage firms. Again. And online equity trades are only 4. 95. I mean you cant have low cost and be full service. Its impossible. Its like having your cake and eating it too. Ask your broker if they offer awardwinning full service and low costs. How am i going to explain this . If you dont like their answer, ask again at schwab. Schwab, a modern approach to wealth management. To take care of yourself. But natures bounty has innovative ways to help you maintain balance and help keep you active and wellrested. Because hey, tomorrows coming up fast. Natures bounty. Because youre better off healthy. Natures bounty. 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Discounted hotel rates when you add on to your trip. Only when you book with expedia. We weaken our greatness when we confuse our patriotism with tribal rivalries that have sown resentment and hatred and violence in all the corner of the globe. We weaken it when we hide behind walls rather than tear them down. When we doubt the power of our ideals rather than trust them to be the great force for change they have always been. Do not despair of our present difficulties. We believe always in the promise and greatness of america. Because nothing is inevitable here. Americans never quit. We never surrender. We never hide from history. We make history. Farewell fellow, americans. God bless you and god bless america. Generation after generation of americans will hear about the cocky pilot who barely scraped through annapolis, but then defended our nation in the skies. Witness to our highest values even through terrible torture. It is our honor as americans to say the late great John Sidney Mccain iii what we pray he has already heard from his creator, well done, good and faithful servant. Well done. You fought the good fight. You finished the race. You kept the faith. And you never gave up the ship. That was senator Mitch Mcconnell and before that rick davis. John mccains long time friend and former Campaign Manager reading the senators parting message to the nation. The Arizona Republican also remembered on the senate floor where he served for over three decades. Welcome back to morning joe. Its tuesday, august 28th, 2018. Still with us we have msnbc contributor mike barnacle. Associate editor of commentary, noah roth man and heidi. Columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post David Ignatius. Pulitzer prize winning columnist, eugene robinson. And joining the conversation we have columnist for the Washington Post, Senior Editor at Business Insider and msnbc contributor, and National Political correspondent for nbc and news and msnbc Steve Kornacki. His forthcoming book the red and the blue the 1990s and the birth of political tribalism is coming out october 2nd. You know, mike, i think its important that we remember the words of ted kennedy as he was eulogizing his brother. He said that his brother should not be idealized, or enlarged in death beyond what he was in life, but then he went on to talk about how his brother was a good man and he tried to find justice, and tried to do the right thing. I think what makes john mccain such a fascinating figure and will be even more fascinating figure as we move forward through history is like many great men and women and leaders, he had his flaws. He had his faults. Like churchill. Like Bobby Kennedy. Like jfk. Like you name it. We can go down the list. He embraced those flaws. He admitted to them. And he persevered through one struggle after another. You know, joe, he was a man who was truly flawed. And if you didnt believe that all you had to do was ask him about his flaws. He would go on at length explaining the flaws that you had mentioned and flaws that you never heard of. Thats who he was. He has always reminded me in a way of one of the great characters in one of the great movies ever made the john ford classic the searchers where john wayne plays eths ethan whon search of his niece who was captured by indians. Pursuit of something done wrong to correct it. John mccain, in my mind, reminds me a lot of that. His pursuit was to always lets correct the record. Lets justify or find justice for someone who has not received justice. He was always a champion of the good going after the evil. But he was absolutely drenched in humanity. Among politicians ive known over the course of my life and covered over the course of my life i cant think of one who came close to being so drenched in humanity as he was. Other than perhaps his close friend joe biden. Very, very similar, the two of them. Yeah. You know, David Ignatius, one of the lines that stood out to me in john mccains farewell statement to america, was when he said nothing is inevitable. We tend to look at the results as William Buckley talked about, we tend to be held to the tyranny of the results that happened at the election booth, last time people went to vote. We tend to project that forward, those results forward. So, i guess it would be easy to say and im curious your take whether the passing of john mccain is one more nail in the coffin of americas role in europe and across the world, or whether republicans like marco rubio, nikki haley and others will take up that torch as soon as donald trump leaves town . Its a great question. John mccain believed in a forward leaning aggressive almost dominating american presence driven by our values as a country. Sometimes felt there wasnt a conflict in the world that john mccain wasnt ready to jump into. The countrys mood over the last ten years has changed. Theres more frustration with the wars that we fought and got less than we expected to. One memory i have of senator mccain is that whenever people were fighting for something that he believed in, whether it was in syria or georgia or in the baltic states, he got on a plane. He went there often. He went with senator Lindsey Graham, his traveling buddy, and they went to front lines. They got as close to the action as they could. They went right to the Syrian Border and met people who were in desperate need and just try to say United States is with you. We hear your voices. We care. I think it was that idea that we were going to be engaged no matter what. John mccain in a sense was fighting against a country that wanted to refreight the world and john mccain kept saying, no, dont. Thats not us. And i think going forward, joe, thats a big question for the country. Do we want to be john mccain leading the country or pull inward . The differences between john mccain and donald trump could not be more different in so many ways. Donald trump wants to retreat from the world stage. A lot of his supporters want america to retreat from the world stage. And another difference, donald trump hugs flags on stages, hes never been to a war zone. Never visited soldiers, sailors, marines, airmen in war zones. And as David Ignatius just said, thats what john mccain did all the time. To see what was going on, on the front lines. And his own experiences, in his own heritage, obviously, shaped that. As i was writing our obituary of john mccain, his military lineage goes back to the revolutionary war. One of his ancestors fought with george washington. Not only was he the son and grandson of the first father and son ever in the history of our country to become four star admirals, but this was really sort of so ingrained in him. And so was this code of honor. You talk about him talking about his flaws. He had a personal code of honor that i think both defined and haunted him. So when he would talk about his experiences as a prisoner of war, the low moment was not the multiple times that his torturers broke his arm, the lone moment was not all those years in solitary confinement. To john mccain, the lone moment came when he was forced to sign what was essentially a meaningless confession, because he said i could only feel what my father was thinking of me. Steve kornacki, from john mccains legacy to the election thats going to be held in john mccains state that he served for over 30 years today, in arizona, you talk about tribalism. My goodness. Its on full display in arizona today. Especially with one candidate who mocked john mccain hours before his death, claiming that his statement was meant his farewell statement was meant to undercut her chances and then yesterday using the word cancer in a statement. Whats happening out in arizona, thats what kelli ward tweeted yesterday, Political Correctness is like a cancer, saying the day after john mccain died. Tell me, whats going to happen in arizona today, and how split is the Republican Party there . Yeah. Well, this is a longer term story, the split youre talking about in arizona. Kelli wards tweet that you just put up there, running this insurgent campaign out there against martha mcsally, the pick of the republican establishment in washington, they think shes the only one who would give them a shot to hold on to this seat. Jeff flake is retiring. Mcsally is leading the polls. That goes back a few years, kelli ward ran against john mccain in 2016. When he ran for reelection she challenged him in the primary. She was just as controversial in her rhetoric back then towards john mccain. She got nearly 40 of the vote in that primary. Theres that sizable contingent there. The fear of republicans is that maybe since Donald Trumps election in 2016 it had grown to the point where she could potentially win this primary. Of course you got another wild card and thats joe arpaio. Nobody thinks he has a chance to win this but between them there may be enough bush polls indicate theres enough for mcsally to prevail. You look at all these last minute antics by kelli ward, theres a few states in arizona where more states are put in farther from election day. So kelli ward how many ballots were cast before any of this was out there for public consumption. You talk about political tribalism and steve is releasing a book about political tribalism. Obviously theres political tribalism in both the democratic and Republican Party and each party is having its battle for the future of the party. I guess its just so much more pronounced in the Republican Party right now because they are in power across the board and because the battle is either youre for the president or youre against the president. Boy, thats quite a dividing line. It is. So the president is on twitter this morning, essentially if you can decode the tweets because they are cryptic. It suggests pretty clearly that the president of the United States believes that google is censoring bad news about him. If youre kelli ward and you think chem trails affect how people think and Political Correctness is like a cancer this is your wheelhouse. You can navigate that terrain pretty effectively. If youre any other politician, any other seasoned professional came up through the farm team and appeal to a Broad Coalition and need to get to 50 plus one this is poison. You want to do your best to run away it from. Its almost impossible. You had senator inhofe from oklahoma was asked about john mccains spat with the white house and he rather than avoiding the question tried to navigate it. In doing so he stepped on a land mine. He said john mccain instigate this and deserved it. No way to navigate the attributablism around the president of the United States because he puts you in difficult positions. The only way to effectively do politics like republicans is to just not say anything. Just avoid the president and his behavioral ticks as much as possible. Thats a difficult thing to ask a reto do. Navigating, as noah pointed out the tribalism between parties and within parties is one thing. But in the larger scheme of things, the idea that mentioning john mccain and saying, you know, well he was a decent human being, he tried to do well, he made mistakes and tried to do well, you still among some people, you get like a reaction to that saying wait a minute no he wasnt that great of a guy. Negative reactions from certain corners of the right and left. The reason mccain was so popular through his career and more popular than his policy position, up until the economy started to fall apart in the fall of 2008 he had some shot to hold on to the election where the republicans should have had very little chance. There was a sense on the left that basically, you know, people liked mccain personally, felt he mean well and that allowed him to get away with a policy agenda that was less popular than him which they saw was negative to tint of a lot of people. While meaning well moved into a lot of significant mistakes most notably his support for the iraq war. The moral clarity he had about Foreign Policy blurred into a moral confidence that led him to support some significant mistakes of the United States. From the right, these well meaning politicians so focused on global concerns, so focused on promoting democracy around the world, favoring immigration as part of an integration between the u. S. And the rest of the world that was basically giving away your stuff. So i think you see that critique from the kelli ward camp in the republican and you see that from threat. Reaction more broadly against collegiately in washington. When politicians gettogether and say nice things about each other they agree to screw you over while being nice to each other. Theres a lot of cynicism there that field there. Gene robinson, what ive never been able to understand or square is that the father of the modern Republican Party is a guy who would sit down and talk to tip oneill every day. The father of the Republican Party is a guy who had a deal with tip oneill. We fight like hell all day, but at 6 00 we become friends. At 6 00, one time Ronald Reagan called tip oneill a demagogue i believe on Social Security and medicare. He picked up the phone, he called him. He said hey, buddy, im sorry. I apologize. Sometimes when tip oneill crossed the line, he did the same thing. They had a rule, they had an understanding, we fight within the lines, but after 6 00 we are friends, so we can Work Together to do the nations business. By the way, that guy, Ronald Reagan, he won 49 states. In 1984. 49 states. He won two landslides. I dont know if you know this, gene, he even won wisconsin. And he did it by being a happy warrior and by embracing tip oneill, by embracing the most liberal of liberal people while staying true to his own values. I dont understand why Ronald Reagans Republican Party hasnt learned that lesson . Well, joe, that all seems so 20th century these days, doesnt it . It seems like a long time ago. I think the fact is that Ronald Reagan, the man who invented the modern Republican Party would not be welcomed in todays Republican Party. He would be a squish. He would be, you know, far too sort of friendly and amiable and willing to sit down and talk with and to compromise to accept sort of less than the, all of what youre asking for, demanding, than the republicans are today. And, you know, the irony, of course, is that senators, you will hear senators from republicans and democrats who talk of their genuine feelings for john mccain this week. Yet you didnt see that in the way they voted. You didnt see that in the way they spoke about him or treated him publicly frankly with their own constituents at home, at least republicans because he was for many republicans, much of the Republican Base kind of a pariah. And he was, again, despite his voting record, despite a lifetime i had somebody close to me yesterday talk about how john mccain was a liberal. Its just you look at his lifetime of work. It is laughable that anybody would describe in 2018 john mccain, his voting record, his position on war, his position on peace, his position on budgets, his position on fiscal responsibility as anything but conservative. Well be right back. Obviously we got a cast of millions with us this morning. Its all very exciting. Like a night of a thousand stars. We got some explosive primaries in florida today, in arizona. Weve got a North Carolina decision. I dont know if you guys bhaerd this last night but a North Carolina decision where the a federal court has thrown out the congressional line in North Carolina because of gerry ma manderring. They may have to redraw those lines before 2018 election which is more bad news for the Republican Party. Well talk about that and much more when morning joe returns. More when morning joe returns. When you rent from national. Its kind of like playing your own version of best ball. Because here, you can choose any car in the aisle, even if its a better car class than the one you reserved. So no matter what, youre guaranteed to have a perfect drive. [laughter] vo go national. Go like a pro. See what i did there . This is moving day with the best inhome wifi experience and millions of wifi hotspots to help you stay connected. And this is moving day with Reliable Service appointments in a twohour window so youre up and running in no time. Show me decorating shows. This is staying connected with xfinity to make moving. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and twohour appointment windows. Click, call or visit a store today. Joe. We have a lot to talk about. Try to get to it. David ignatius, i want to go to you real quickly. First of all, i wonder what your thoughts are about donald trump talking about google filtering out good news stories about him, sort of another Conspiracy Theory about that and speaking of good news thats been filtered out by google, i havent read good news stories about north korea. How bad are things in north korea right now . Where do we go . Those two points, joy, are very much on my mind. This mornings tweet essentially complaining about the results of the Google Search algorithm that when you go in for trump news you get news from cnn who has infuriated the president. If i understood the tweet, hes demanding that google adjust the search algorithm so it produces a different result. Thats scary when you begin getting a president saying i just dont regard the news media as enemies of the people i regard our i. T. Search algorithm companies. Thats a new front. On north korea, i think the country really needs to understand that were heading into a new, very difficult period of bargaining. The statements out of north korea in the last couple of days have returned to the kind of intensity and animosity we saw last day. Mike pompeo, our secretary of state has been managing these negotiations pretty effectively but the North Koreans seem to be blowing up the platform on which we were going to negotiate. So, i think a lot of people are watching that, wondering. Chinas role as President Trump said, china had been helpful. Not so much now as we get deeper and deeper into the trade war with china. Josh, speaking that have that trade war with china, you obviously have Donald Trumps stated desire to have a trade war with china. Obviously, getting in the way with cooperation with north korea, and then you have the president this morning tweeting about conspiracy theories and google algorithms instead of talking about this elegant trade deal as he called it that hes trying to strike with mexico. What is the status of the trade war right now, and does donald trump have an end game . Well, i think one smart thing hes been doing has been taking moving more of the focus towards china and trying to take the heat off on some of the other trade disputes. You saw the meeting with the eu, the happy talk and announcing there would be an agreement an its just an agreement to talk about talks. But basically for now we wont have a trade war with the eu beyond the existing disputes we have. The news coming out of mexico, you saw the stock market jump. Thats the stock market taking this as a sign there wont be disruption to nafta despite what the president is saying about canada. Not clear they have Legal Authority to try to move Bilateral Agreement just with mexico, under the existing trade Promotion Authority process that they are going through with regard to nafta. So either canada will come along by friday or have to wait. This is an artificial deadline to get this done this week so they can sign this agreement while the sitting connectimexic president is still there. The sign is basically were going to get a nafta that either stays unchanged or slightly revised. I dont think these changes with regard to our trade with mexico are a big deal. Basically, the president is more or less trying to limit himself to a single trade war with china. I dont think he has a great strategy with regard to china but at least youre not trying to take them on at the same time you take on cpa, europe and mexico. Its an issue that the president himself has highlighted. If we want china to be helpful to us, north korea, picking fights on trade is not helpful. Hes identified that problem. He hasnt identified anything to do about that problem. And, karen, the lack of message discipline is extraordinary. Youve been in washington. Youve seen a few administrations come and go. Yesterday he gets this phone call and wants to talk about blowing up nafta. Part of it, i think, was bringing the reporters in, getting their minds off of john mccain. The next morning hes not trying to move that a step forward. Instead hes talking about conspiracy theories on google. How in the world does the white house staff keep up with this and keep up with the volatility from moment to moment and a volatility that actually seems to keep getting worse by the day this is a great frustration not only of the white house staff but of republicans throughout washington and the country because they really wish the president would be more disciplined in hammering home the message of how dwell economy is doing, trying to translate some of these republican policies into convincing voters that there have been benefits to them and, instead we have this kind of selfabsorption on the part of the president keeps taking him off track. I think what may be happening this morning is that the president understands that, you know, the news over the next week is not going to be about him. Its going to be about john mccain. It wont reflect well on him. So by pushing this technologically based Conspiracy Theory hes essentially telling his supporters, dont believe anything you see or hear or read. Which, of course, he said, Steve Kornacki, he said dont believe anything, whatever you see is not real, Rudy Giuliani, of course, said the truth isnt the truth. But today, though, theres going some elections and pretty big elections in arizona and in florida. Of course everybody will be looking at arizona. John mccains state that he represented for over three decades. But in florida theres a heck of a race there too between adam putnam who is rock rib conservative. He is beyond come period ten. Hes beyond experienced. He knows exactly what hes doing. And right now hes fighting with a guy who became popular because he said he read bedtime stories about donald trump and the wall to his children. How are these races shaping up . Its fascinating because you mentioned adam putnam and you look at his political biography. This is somebody who was groomed for this. The youngest person ever elected to the Florida State legislature. He was in congress at the age of 26. He was there, you know, for about a decade. He left that to get a shot at statewide office, a lower level statewide Office Agriculture commission. Now hes about 43, 44 years old, already has a 20 year political resume and now making the next logical step. Hes running up against in this primary. Desantis has been a couple of months ago when donald trump decided to weigh in. He weighed in on behalf of desantis. Putnam steamed have an advantage in the polling before that. Trump came out with desantis endorsements. Desantis pulled ahead. Now you look in the homestretch of this case. Two of the last three polls ive seen have putnam pulling within a couple of points. I havent seen one that puts him ahead. Theres signs of life in the putnam campaign. Not pulled ahead. You got trump reiterating endorsement yesterday. You think back in florida too, 2010 when rick scott came on the scene. No trump. You had that similar dynamic. Mccallum the establishment guy and scott pulled it out back then. Well see what happens today. Theres some evidence putnam may be the more electable candidate. One of the most closely watched governors race this fall. Tell us whats happening in South Carolina. A federal court saying the republican drawn lines unconstitutional because of gerrymandering. Should we expect to see those lines redrawn in a way that would further hurt republican chances this fall this is the fascinating thing about this story. Everybody knew this was a live issue in South Carolina. Everybody knew the court would weigh in and say the map needs blown up and redrawn. Nobody expected it would happen right now before the 2018 election. The court seems to be suggesting yes new maps can and should be in place for the 2018 midterm. Theres the likelihood, the certainty that this will be appealed to the Supreme Court. I think, remember the Supreme Court at this moment, theres no brett kavanaugh, no trump remacement choice on the Supreme Court. Youre sitting at an eight member Supreme Court. The odds of Supreme Court weighing in a reversing is less with that vacancy. If this decision holds then yeah youre potentially looking at new maps this november. North carolina, it is 103 for republicans in that delegation right now. If you look at those ten republicans there were three or maybe four that were potentially going to be in play this november. We saw this happen in pennsylvania earlier this year. They blew up the map. The democrats, their prospects got rosier, a few mortar gets emerged, targets they had became stronger. If you apply something similar to North Carolina, who knows what the map would look like. Those three or four targets could look juicier for democrats. Most likely that decision if you look at the past decisions that have come down on gerrymandering will come down 44, kick it back to a lower court whose ruling will most likely hold and those lines will have to be redrawn. Steve kornacki, thank you. Josh, thank you so much. Karen, greatly appreciate you being here. Still ahead on morning joe days before hearing the word consulaty eight times did Paul Manafort try to cut a deal with robert mueller. Well talk about that hide. Plus a suspected murder case from decades ago could have major implications for the mueller probe. We have that new reporting next when we return. To most, hes phil mickelson, pro golfer. To me, hes, well, dad. So when his joint pain from Psoriatic Arthritis got really bad, it scared me. And what could that pain mean . Joint pain could mean joint damage. Enbrel helps relieve joint pain, helps stop irreversible joint damage, and helps skin get clearer. Enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. Serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and Blood Disorders, and allergic reactions have occurred. Tell your doctor if youve been someplace where fungal infections are common, or if youre prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for Heart Failure, or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. Dont start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. Since enbrel, dads back to being dad. Visit enbrel. Com and use the joint damage simulator to see how your joint damage could be progressing. Ask about enbrel. Enbrel. Fda approved for over 15 years. So ahead of his conviction last week on fraud charges Paul Manaforts lawyers were striking a deal with prosecutors on an agreement to keep his second trial from even taking place. According to the wall street journal, citing several sources manaforts defense team held talks with prosecutors while the jury in the first trial was deliberating and they were trying to resolve a second set of charges against President Trumps Information Campaign chief. But, the journal says two sides did not reach a deal and that talks broke down when special Counsel Robert Mueller raised a number of issues with manaforts lawyer. The sources tell the paper that its unclear what exactly the, i were. Manaforts second trial is set to take place next month in washington, d. C. Lets bring now senior White House Reporter for politico and msnbc contributor josh. So josh, whats your take on the journals reporting . Whats the word about the current status of any possible deal between manafort and mull center well, i dont think its imminent and i dont think its likely but what two sides they actually were required to have some discussions about this upcoming trial. The judge in that case which will take place here in washington, d. C. Had told them to submit basically a joint report on how various issues related to the trial were going to be handled and try to work through various issues related to the exhibits and evidence and witnesses. So its not surprising to me that in the context of those discussions there might have been some broader discussions about trying to resolve the case. I think there are a couple of big hurdles. One is manafort is not going get a better deal than rick gates got. He was forced to not forced but required in order to get a deal to plea to conspiracy which is a serious charge as well as lying to investigators and man tort would have to do that. Then the other, i think, major obstacle to a deal here is just how transparenter a er anpresid has been about a pardon here. Hes all but offered a pardon to Paul Manafort with his expression of sympathy in recent days. I want seems a bizarre tactic to plead guilty and have hints of possible cooperation with mueller at a time when the president , i think, has, as i said, been pretty clear that hes very, very sympathic to manaforts case for a pardon. So, josh, speaking of bizarre, tell us about your story that you broke about a, i guess, cold case very cold. Very cold. How six decades old i guess, a sleeper case could actually torpedo Robert Muellers report and stop him from being able to report information to the American People. So, the connection here has to do with the whole concept of grand jury secrecy. One of the things people have been thinking about or discussing is how mueller would get a report out to the public given that a lot of his investigative work has been done by a grand jury here in washington. The mechanism is not clear. One way to do it might be to ask the chief federal judge here in washington in the drouistrict ct to approve a disclosure to congress or the public. This case that dates back to 1956 deals with this very same issue. Theres an author named stewart mckeefer, also an attorney investigating for many years the disappearance of a gentleman who was an activist in the Dominican Republic. He was a columbian professor and literally disappeared off the streets of new york city back in 1956. Its believed he may have been kidnapped, taken to the Dominican Republic and killed. There was a grand jury here in washington that investigated that incident and this author is trying to get those records and this fight is actually going the d. C. Circuit in just a few weeks and its possible we might get a decision which if it went against the author, has the potential to maybe tie muellers hands or make that path to producing a report a lot bumpier. Josh, pull that apart a little bit more. Sure. A sealed grand jury report from 62 years ago. And it would seem just to a casual everybodier that 62 years ago a dominican native is scooped off the streets of new york, taken to the Dominican Republic and the body is never found. He may have had official United States government assistance in removing him from this country. So if the report is revealed and its made public, never mind the obvious blockbuster story, what impact does that have on grand jury reports, muellers grand jury reports right now . Well, the Justice Department in this case dating back six decades is taking the position that judges do not have the discretion to release that kind of information. Just because historians or scholars might be interested in it or even journalists. The question is how far does that principle go. If the court, d. C. Circuit, republican leaning panel that will take up this issue in a few weeks. If they rule judges dont have the authority to release that kind of information it might be difficult for mueller to walk in with a request just a couple of weeks later and ask a federal judge to bless disclosure of information that really doesnt fit within one of the established exceptions to grand jury secrecy. Its a question of how far the court goes in accepting the Justice Departments arguments and potentially narrowing the options that mueller has to get his information out to the public through legitimate channels. All right. Thank you so much. A fascinating story. We will stay tuned. And still to come this morning senator Lindsey Graham doubles down on his support of donald trump over Jeff Sessions. Well show you what he just told nbc news ahead on morning joe. Wow. Joe wow. It was here. I couldnt catch my breath. It was the last song of the night. It felt like my heart was skipping beats. They said i had afib. Whats afib . I knew that meant i was at a greater risk of stroke. 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Before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. Learn all you can to help protect yourself from a stroke. Talk to your doctor about xarelto®. Mom okay we need to get all your School Supplies today. School. Grade. Done. Done. Hit the Snooze Button and get low prices on School Supplies all summer long. Like this case of paper for only 29. 99 at office depot officemax. Lindsey graham just gave donald trump a green light to fire his attorney general and undermine the Mueller Investigation. We will talk about that in a minute. First, heidi, you got an exclusive first look at former democratic congresswoman gabbie give forwards political ad that focused on gun violence. Lets look at it and tell us what is behind the ad. All across our great country families are scared of gun violence. I am gabbie gifford. What makes America Great . The courage to say no problem is too big to solve. But shooting after shooting, Barbara Comstock has failed. She has taken thousands from the nra. We must do better. Reporter so, joe, this ad is significant for a number of reasons. First of all, it is the first one to come out and it is in the nras backyard in virginias tenth Congressional District going directly at Barbara Comstock, featuring gabbie gifford herself speaking to the camera, which is something we havent seen before. She in many ways is a powerful advocate as a victim herself of gun violence that forever changed her life. This also marks the beginning of a suburban offensive that we have not seen in the past, going after a lot of these suburban swing districts. Joe, this is one of the things thats been lacking in the past, which is the money and the intensity behind the gun safety community, the pro gun control community. So you could expect to potentially see ads like this in many suburban swing districts, from states like minnesota to arizona to virginia. This is just the first one. I think it is significant it is right in the backyard of the nra at a time when their popularity is at an 18year low according to recent polling. And barbaras strict distric fuf distri tough district for any republican to win. She is obviously facing a tough battle there, in large part because as heidi said, suburban women are going to be the targets for democrats, to get out and vote and create a blue wave. And if you look at what happened in the governors race last year, that may be a Winning Strategy in a lot of suburban districts. So here is Lindsey Graham. He was on the today show talking about john mccain, his friendship with john mccain, but while he was there he also gave donald trump a green light to fire Jeff Sessions. Take a look. We need an attorney general that can work with the president. The only beef the president seems to have against him is that hes not going to get rid of the investigation into President Trump. Let me finish the second part. It is much deeper than that. What else are we missing . Well, we wont say on this show, but it is a pretty deep breach, and heres what im suggesting. That hes not the only man in the country that can be attorney general. Hes a fine man. Im not asking him to be fired, but the relationship is not working. To replace him. To replace him. Yeah. We have to replace him with somebody who is highlyqualified and will commit to the senate the allow mueller to do his job. Nobody is going to take jeffs place that doesnt commit to the senate and the country as a whole that mueller will be allowed to finish his job without political interference. But, doug ignatius, the only thing donald trump has against Jeff Sessions is he did the right thing and he recused himself. With anybody that knows anything about jurisprudence and legal ethics would have done the same exact thing. Thats all he has against sessions. So lindsay is saying he should be fired . You know, it was a strange statement from senator graham. He enjoys his golf buddy friendship with the president , and this may be another sign of it. I thought the most interesting part of that, graham has said before that he thought that it might be time for sessions to retire after the elections when the new congress is seated. I think in specifying that no new attorney general would be confirmed without a promise to keep the Mueller Investigation going, graham has actually moved a little further toward protection of the investigation than i had heard before. It is my understanding that senator oren hatch, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee, has said flatly that no successor to sessions will be confirmed without a promise like that. So that may be a little bit of hidden news here in what senator graham had to say this morning. Maybe so. Well, still ahead on morning joe, weve been talking about the changing landscape in arizona politics, both with the loss of john mccain and also the impending retirement of senator jeff flake. We will have senator flake with us live next hour, but were back here in one minute with a packed 8 00 a. M. Hour on morning joe. Neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair® works in just one week. With the fastest retinol formula available. Its clinically proven to work on fine lines and wrinkles. One week . That definitely works rapid wrinkle repair®. And for dark spots, rapid tone repair. Neutrogena®. See whats possible. Lean on me, when youre not strong and ill be your friend ill help you carry on lean on me. Little things can be a big deal. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not a cream. Its a pill that treats moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis differently. With otezla, 75 clearer skin is achievable. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. It may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Otezla is associated with. An increased risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have  a history of depression or suicidal thoughts,. Or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. Tell your doctor about your medicines and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Otezla. Show more of you. I dont know what is going to be said in the next few days about john mccain, by whomever it is going to be said or what is going to be done. By anybody who in any way tarnishes the reputation of john mccain deserves a whipping. Because most of the ones who would do the wrong thing about john mccain didnt have the guts to do the right thing when it was their turn. That is republican senator Johnny Isakson of georgia with perhaps a message to the president. Well, good morning and welcome to morning joe on this tuesday, august 28th. With us we have this morning msnbc contributor mike barnacle. Associate editor of commentary mag au zine, noah rothman. Heidi przybyla. Columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius. Pulitzer Award Winning editor of the Washington Post and political analyst eugene robinson. Washington annor fchor for bbc america, katty kay. We got the funeral details for john mccain. They were announced yesterday. While the Office Released a letter from the late senator which reads in part this. My fellow americans, thank you for the privilege of serving you and for the rewarding life that service in uniform and Public Office has allowed me to lead. I have tried to serve our country honorably. I have made mistakes, but i hope any love for america will be weighed favorably against them. I lived and died a proud american. We are citizens of the worlds greatest republic, a nation of ideals, not blood and soil. We are blessed and are a blessing to humanity when we up hold and advance those ideas at home and in the world. We helped liberate more people from tyranny and poverty than ever before in history. We weaken our greatness when we confuse our patriotism with tribal rivalries that have sown resentment, hatred and violence in all corners of the globe. We weaken it when we hide behind walls rather than tear them down, when we doubt the power of our ideals rather than trust them to be the great force for change theyve always been. We have always had so much more in common with each other, in disagreement. If only we remember that and give each other the benefit of the presumption that we all love our country, we will get through these challenging times. We will come through them stronger than before. We always do. Do not despair of our present difficulties, but believe always in the promise and greatness of america because nothing is inevitable here. Americans never quit. We never surrender. We never hide from history. We make history. Farewell, fellow americans. God bless you and god bless america. David ignatius, what a wonderful, what a strong, what a timely message from a man who has dominated american political life for 30, 40 years, and will surely influence americans and those who seek to serve in public for many more years to come. Joe, john mccains final statement which you just read very movingly is a soldiers statement to his country. It is striking, the belief he had to his very last day that the uncountry could solve its problems if only it could escape this bitter partisanship that through john mccains last several decades became more and more of a problem. I was always struck with mccain in every encounter i had with him and listening to you read that statement, how much john mccain believed that American Values were our greatest source of strength. Thats not just a line in a speech. He really believed it. He thought that when we were americans, when we represented these values of freedom, the whole world caught fire and moved in our direction. Hed watched the cold war. He had watched our success sees. I think it was a bitter disappointment to him to see a person who he thought had low moral values, not of strong character, as leader. Not just because of the bitter fights that he had with donald trump, but because he felt that quality, that lack of moral character weakened the country. It is interesting that thats how, joe, he chose to say goodbye to all of us, the remind us of the importance of character. Right. It really is. Mike barnacle, i was struck when we heard the news of senator mccains passing, just the despair that i saw in mikas face and the despair she felt the rest of the day, and he was obviously a democrat, a lifelong democrat who never voted for republican. Certainly didnt vote for john mccain. They clashed from time to time with senator mccain clashed with me and clashed with quite a few people because he was a tough fighter. God bless him for that. But the one thing that i think mika noticed even as a liberal democrat was the greatness of the man, the greatness of the leadership. She saw something in him that she saw in her father, that she saw in other president s and diplomats that she had crossed in her life, and mika just knew that somebody great had left our presence. And, my god, anyone that feels a sense of despair only needs to read john mccains final words to understand not only why he was so great but why americas greatest days really could lie ahead if we only get out of our way, our own way. Well, joe, john mccain would be the last person who would want anyone to despair today, and i think maybe what mika saw and what she thought whenever she saw or heard john mccain was quite simple. She saw america and she saw an american and she saw someone whose life story symbolizes in a sense what this country is all about. His history is our history. We dont teach our history very well to our children or to one another, but his history is very familiar now given his passing. His history is one of continued survival in the face of unbelievable obstacles. Fiveandahalf years. I stood in the cell where he spent most of those fiveandahalf years in hanoi, and it is not a comfortable feeling, all of the years later when i stood in it, and it is abhorrent to think of any human being being treated the way he was treated. I think i mentioned yesterday he once told me when i asked him, that he once went three months without seeing the sun because he was held in solitary confinement. And he once went nearly five months without seeing the moon. Think about that and think about his resilience. Thats the United States of america. Our resilience as a republic in overcoming all sorts of historical obstacles, thats john mccain. Well, and, unfortunately, the man that drew so much attention yesterday and actually only elevated john mccains standing was a man who as the Washington Post wrote sometime ago, was a man who had five deferments from vietnam. He said john mccain wasnt a war hero, and while john mccain was living there in those horrid conditions, being beaten up, being tortured, having bruises that would stay with him the rest of his life, donald trump was living the high life in manhattan. Once told howard stern that avoiding stds was his own vietnam. That man, President Trump, who said he wants an elaborate, multimilliondollar parade down pennsylvania avenue to honor the military, he spent much of monday resisting all calls to simply lower the white house flag in honor of prisoner of war and Public Servant, senator john mccain. As 18 Senior Administration officials independently paid tribute to john mccains heroism and sacrifice, the president refused to budge. According to the new york times, he ignored repeated requests from Vice President pence, repeated requests from chief of staff john kelly, at three events in the morning and early afternoon, trump ignored requests for comments on the former p. O. W. And war hero. Reporter mr. President , do you have any thoughts on john mccain . Do you have any thoughts at all about john mccain . Do you believe john mccain was a hero, sir . Nothing at all about john mccain . Mr. President , the American Legion is asking you to lower the flag to half staff. Any reaction to the American Legion . Any action for the American Legion, about a proclamation about john mccain . Why wont you say anything about john mccain. Just the smallness is, of course is, of course, unrivalled, first of all. Yeah. Secondly, i dont know what word to use. Stupidity . I dont know that you use stupidity against a man that ran through a field of 16 republicans and then beat Hillary Clinton for president of the United States. Derangement . Too many words attached to derangement. Too many meanings attached to derangement. But donald trump should have known what any other adult in Donald Trumps position there would have known, which is like doing what he did yesterday, he did nothing but elevate john mccain even more. Mccain was laughing at the gates of st. Peter all day yesterday, or if he decided to take a detour and raise a little hell, he had lucifer winking at him going, thats president y gotty really set that sucker up. Mccain had another day where we all get an opportunity to look at the greatness of his character compared to this clown who wouldnt even lower the flag to half mast. I think that maybe the phrase you were looking for was inadequacy as a human being. I mean there are certain things that you would see and understand, that i might see and understand, that he doesnt because of his enormous and overwhelming President Trump, because of his enormous and overwhelming narcissim. In the first clip when he was asked yesterday, the way he sat there with his arms crossed was just, you know, you would expect better really of a three year old. Mabel not a two year olbe ma twoyearold but a three year old. Some part of him stopped growing at twoandahalf, the mememe part. He is at it again this morning, tweeting away in his own defense, i guess. Not on the mccain matter, but in general. This is you know, john mccain, whatever you thought of his politics, you could disagree with him, it was impossible not to find him funny and entertaining and just a delight to talk to and be around. And also, you know, he had his clashes with President Trump. He saw who trump was, but he did something about it. He spoke out. Right. He spoke out with his vote at a particularly crucial juncture in this countrys history about the Affordable Care act. And you wonder, is any of that sort of bravery left in the Republican Party. So thats just the first half of the story. After pressure from Veterans Groups, the president relented, but the damage was already done. We are going to get to that straight ahead. But first, here is bill karins. He has a check on the forecast. Bill. Good morning to you, joe. A lot of big headlines out this morning. Last of the summer heat wave for many and then severe weather. We had a lot overnight with flash flooding in wisconsin. 68 Million People under excessive heat advisory or work, including friends from st. Louis to davenport and springfield. We will to it again tomorrow, too. On thursday, some thunderstorms will break the heat wave in the northeast. How bad will it be . D. C. Wont be pleasant, 104 degrees in the shade this afternoon. Boston at 102 with a temperature at 98. It doesnt happen that often at the end of august. Close to a record high. Dallas you expect this. We had a really bad thunderstorm line from lacrosse to sheboygan heading to kalamazoo this afternoon. 28 Million People at risk of severe storm. If you are east of the mississippi, if you like the summertime heat this is probably about it over the next couple of days. Looking at new york city, you are one of the areas under the heat advisory. It will feel like 102 to 103 this afternoon. You are watching morning joe. Well be right back. Joe. Well be right back. With tremfya®, you can get clearer. And stay clearer. In fact, most patients who saw 90 clearer skin at 28 weeks stayed clearer through 48 weeks. Tremfya® works better than humira® at providing clearer skin, and more patients were symptom free with tremfya®. Tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. 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After initially ignoring questions about mccains legacy and having the flag actually raised back to full staff over the white house, donald trump reportedly gave in after a stern Public Statement from the American Legion. The National Commander said his two million members would strongly urge you to make an appropriate president ial proclamation. The white house soon lowered the flag to half staff and the president signed a proclamation, which begins, despite our differences on policy and politics, i respect senator john mccains service to our country. It goes on to ask the Vice President to speak at mccains ceremony with top advisors kelly, mattis and bolton to attend. A dinner with evangelical leaders last night, trump read a brief appreciation. Our hearts and prayers are going to the family of senator john mccain. Theres going to be a lot of activity over the next number of days, and we very much appreciate everything that senator mccain has done for our country. So thank you very much. Noah, again, why does it take the man 12 hours, 14, while his staff is begging him to do the decent thing . Why did it take him so long . Why cant he get out of his own way . Well, if reporting is correct and as you said the president is not stupid, he knows who his supporters are and where his support comes from, and when a significant Veterans Group like the American Legion puts some pressure on you, a man who really believes that veterans are on his side and who has veterans on his side, thats good. I believe that the damage was done. A lot of what we saw yesterday was described as petty. It is really small. But i dont think it is especially petty. These two men were representatives of a very significant fissures within the american politic, within the conservative politic, who were representatives of camps that believe in combat over some really fundamental issues, issues like comportment, the power of persuasion verse beiusg churlish. And perhaps most significantly of all, the nature of americas role in the world. John mccain was a very staunch advocate of an america that was extrovert, that had a significant responsibility on the worlds superpower. Donald trump is representative of a very different vision for american politics. The fact that this combat continues beyond the grave is indicative of how powerful these issues are and how resonant they are in our politics. We shouldnt dismiss it as petty. It is part of a significant ongoing Cultural Party for the Republican Party and the republic itself. Coming up, the junior senator from arizona, john mccains colleague and friend, republican jeff flake joins the conversation next on morning joe. Its time for the biggest sale of the year on the new sleep number 360 smart bed. It senses your movement and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. And now, all beds are on sale. Save 50 on the new sleep number 360 limited Edition Smart bed. Only for a limited time. So you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24 7 tech support. Yep, thanks guys. I think he might need some support. Yes. Start them off right, with the School Supplies they need at low prices all summer long. Now save 150 on this dell notebook at office depot officemax. So todays primary day in arizona as we told you, and voters are going to choose their partys nominee in the race for retiring republican senator jeff flake. Senator flake will be with us in just a minute. First, lets bring in nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of casey d. C. On msnbc, kasie hunt. She is live in phoenix without sound effects or lightning bolts, but a lot of fire and fury out in arizona, especially coming from coming from kelly ward. How is that race looking . Reporter yeah. So if theres ever a reason to have a lightning bolt i would say it is this race. I mean you have these three candidates, joe arpaio, kelly ward and, of course, the establishment favorite martha mcsally. If you think about the broad symbolism of this, this is for jeff Flakes Senate seat, who as you mention youre going to talk to. Hes stepping off the stage because he thought he couldnt win a primary here in as adrizo and he was right probably based on how the race is unfolding, and you have mccain stepping off the stage, another critic of the president. In their place it has become all about who is the trumpianpossible candidate. Kelly ward in her press releases lists a tweet the president sent that was positive towards her a year or more ago. Joe arpaio says he was the one standing next to him before anybody else knew trumps name. I asked him yesterday if he thought john mccain was a hero. He said, actually, i didnt have any heroes until donald trump came along. So interesting way to answer that question. Kelly ward was actually forced to apologize yesterday because she suggested in her Facebook Post that the mccain family had decided on the timing of ending his medical treatment simply to hurt her campaign. She had to come out and to a press conference and say actually thats not what i meant, im sorry if it was misconstrued. Mcsally has been sort of off the campaign trail in the final days. Theres a lot of early voting here in arizona. Republicans in washington are feeling better than they were about where she stands, partly because they think arpaio and ward are going to split the more conservative vote. But even she has been airing ads that feature the president saying she is, you know, a tough person and she is talking about his border wall. This is somebody who represented a swing district in arizona. She didnt endorse President Trump, it is not even clear she voted for him in 2016. She tweeted she was appalled by the access Hollywood Tape at the time. Now it is entirely the opposite and thats because 84 of Republican Voters here in arizona view President Trump favorably. If mcsally pulls it out, we expect a competitive race that will be a national microcosm as well because we will test where the hard line right wing Republican Party that loves trump can stand up against a democratic candidate in a swing state. Joe. We have the test also in florida today on how strong trumps coattails are inside the Republican Party. But what does it look like in the swrgeneral election . Are republicans concerned that arizona, which is usually a reliable red state, are they afraid it may flip this fall to the democrats . Reporter i think theres legitimate concern. I think the sense is that it will be a very, very close race. That presumes that mcsally is able to pull it out today because they think there would be feeling actually they might be likely to lose if one of the other candidates were to pick this up. But, you know, this is a state where all of the changing demographics of the country are in play. You have, you know, immigrant populations, people who live next doors, many of their neighbors are immigrants. So democrats very energized by the president s rhetoric and feeling as though they want to protect their neighbors, and thats you know, to a certain extent it is an unpredictable situation really for a state that was moving closer and closer to being a swing state, farther from being a deep red state, joe. All right. Kasie hunt, one of the best political reporters out there who definitely has the best name for a political tv show. Thank you so much for being with us. Were going to be following you throughout the day. Thank you. Wow, what an interesting night it will be. Lets bring in jeff flake, the man whose seat, ill just say interesting candidates are trying to take. Senator, thanks for being with us. I would be remiss if i at any time ask you first, give us your fondest thoughts about john mccain. I dont know where to begin. I gave a speech on the senate floor last night, recounting some of them. But just traveling around campaigning across the state of arizona, he was great to campaign with. There was nobody more fun, nobody better. I never had an uninteresting town hall with john mccain. If it wasnt confrontational, he would make it so just for fun. Im going to miss it horribly. I just have been so pleased to see the tributes around the country to this great man and welldeserved. You know, i said earlier this morning, i quoted ted kennedy when he was remembering his brother bobby in 1968 after bobbys death, and he said, theres no need to enlarge Bobby Kennedy beyond what he was in life or to deify him. John mccain could be tough, not only in town hall meetings, he could be tough also with colleagues, and he could be tough with members of the arizona delegation. I mean this guy, this guy fought everybody and sometimes he had some pretty sharp elbows, didnt he . He did. You know, i went 12 years in the house while he was in the Senate Without having a real confrontation. I broke up a few fights between john and other members of the delegation sometimes, and i thought i was living large. I got to the senate, and the first vote i cast he didnt think was the right vote. The truth is, he was right, but he let me have it on the senate floor, and my colleagues were standing around laughing their heads off thinking jeff now has his initiation. But the next day he put his arm around me and we went on. I can tell you, like i said last night on the floor, youre looking for somebody to give you an inventory of john mccains short comings, he would provide it. That was what was so appealing about him, is he didnt pretend to be perfect, but he, as many have said, he perfectly loved his country and served it so well. You just mentioned the tributes around the country that have flowed in since senator mccain passed away. Right. And this week, unfortunately, sadly for the country, weve been witness to a display of extraordinary pettiness on the part of mr. Trump not lowering the flag to half staff, and i was struck by a couple of things. One, in your statements and the statements of several others in the United States senate, your colleagues, about what is going on and what went on earlier in the week. But the thing that struck me the most is the absence of outrage articulated by many, if not most, of your republican colleagues in the senate. Im wondering, maybe i missed something, but im wondering why the reticence to attack, to go after, to outline the pettiness on the part of the man who is supposed to unite the nation in our grief and just minimal human decency . Well, i do think it is unfortunate how this unfolded, but were in the right place now. I think the reticence that my colleagues have had i think is wellplaced. They dont want to turn this into a fight, just looking for the good, assuming the best and moving ahead. Im glad were in the right place now in terms of the president s proclamation, and lets leave it at that. Senator, noah rothman, commentary magazine. Moving on to the craft and political unfortunately for a minute. We have a vacancy in arizona. The governor is going to appoint someone to fill that seat. What characters, what traits would you like to see in that replacement . Do you think it should be placeholder allowing the voters to make the decision in 2020 or should the governor use this opportunity to create a new political star in arizona . Im a fan of the governor. I think he has the right things in mind. I will leave that decision completely to him. Obviously this seat has been held by Barry Goldwater and then john mccain. It would be wonderful to have somebody that has independence and that realizes the importance of the senate as an institution. I think the governor certainly has that in mind and well leave it up to him. So, senator, any concerns about the possibility of kelly ward or joe arpaio replacing you in the United States senate . Well, there is a concern. We are set for the primary in arizona. You know, you run to the right, particularly in a year like this, and then you have to recover for a primary general election where early voting is just a few weeks away. So it is a difficult straddle politically, and this year i think it is even worse. As you all know, im very concerned about the direction of the party. I dont think that were putting our best foot forward, and we may win an election here or there but in the end, you know, the party will go if we continue to drill down on the base and not try to appeal to a broader electorate. So im very concerned, and i certainly think if joe arpaio, for example, were to be nominated today we would face real trouble. So lets talk about what the president did yesterday, talking about an elegant deal with mexico. Actually, an elegant title for a deal with mexico according to him. Right. When, in fact, it doesnt appear to be the outlines of a deal, certainly not to a place that the canadians havent even been brought in. What are your concerns with the president blowing up nafta . Well, big concerns there. You know, nafta did need to be modernized. We did a lot of that in the Transpacific Partnership negotiations. So it could have been done there. Im very concerned that this will not be nearly as robust as nafta is now, this new agreement, if we can ever get there. Certainly we need to include canada as well. Thats been the genius of this teal and why it has led to such prosperity for all three countries. So im anxious to see more of the details and see where we end up, but i can tell you in arizona theres great concern that we dont move ahead with a Free Trade Agreement with mexico. We depend mightily on trans border trade, and it has been good for arizona. It has been very, very good for mexico as well, and part of the reason we dont have the pressures on the border weve had in prior years is because the economy has improved so much in mexico. Thats a good thing, not a bad thing. So i hope that we can move ahead with something thats at least as robust as nacfta. Again, thats part of the reason why, as weve been saying for several years now, the net immigration flow has been negative coming to the United States. Thats right. And positive going back into mexico. Senator jeff flake, thank you so much for being with us. Greatly appreciate your time this morning. Thank you. Still to come today, while President Trump constantly rails against fake news, our next guest is railing against fake change. Well explain that ahead when we return. Looking good at booking. Com, we cant guarantee youll good at that water jet thingy. But we can guarantee the best price on this hotel. Or any accommodation, from homes to yurts. Booking. Com booking. Yeah agent beekman was one step ahead of them. Because he hid his customers gold in a different box. And the bandits, well, they got rocks. We protected your money then and were dedicated to helping protect it today. Like alerting you to certain card activity we find suspicious. If its not your purchase, well help you resolve it. Its a new day at wells fargo. But its a lot like our first day. With us now we have author and nbc news political analyst anen gidaris, whose new book is out entitled winners take all. Also with us we have columnist and deputy editorial editor for the Washington Post ruth marcus. I want to read from a recent column you wrote for the new york times. When you warn to, quote, beware of rich people who want to change the world. You write in part this, fake change and what it allows to fester paved the road for President Trump. He tapped into a feeling that the american system was rigid and that establishment elites were in it for themselves. Then, darkly, he reflected that anger on to the most vulnerable americans and having benefitted from the hollow necessaness of change he became it, a rich man who styles himself as a protector of the underdogs who pretends his interests have nothing to do washington he succeed. He is what we get when we trust the rich to fix what they are complicit in breaking. I remember in the last week of the campaign, Donald Trumps last internet ad had a flash of a lot of images that showed how the International Financial system and political system were rigged against working class americans. It was very effective populist ad. Then this guy is elected president of the United States, cuts taxes, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and he was even bragging to his rich friends at maralago, hey, i made you guys a lot of money today. How does he still get away with it . Well, hes getting away with something many, many people get away with in our time, which is rich people breaking the world and then presenting themselves as the repairman. Rich people being arsonists who then show up as the firefighters for the blaze that they helped spark. Donald trump didnt do this in a vacuum. It is rich americans and wealthy corporations had not spent the last 30 or 40 years gutting the american working class and middle class, gutting the ladder of American Opportunity for the sake of their profits, there wouldnt have been so much hurt out there. Social mobility wouldnt have plummeted in america. People born in the 40s used to have a 90 chance of out earning their parents. Now it is down to a crap shoot, 50 50. That was done because rich people sigh foned tphoned the g progress for themselves. They hurt people for their benefit. This is the second part of the con is what this book is about. Having then done that, they turned around and present themselves as the warriors for the underdog, the only people who can fix it. Remember, only i can fix it. Remember trump saying, because i manufactured stuff in china and mexico, i am the guy who can help things from being manufactured in china and mexico . What i wanted to argue in this book is donald trump is not the only one playing this game. When Mark Zuckerberg compromises our election, guts the news industry by bringing fafioso tactics to publishers trying to make money and turns around and says, im going to fix education in america, im going to fix homelessness which by the way i helped to cause by driving up real estate prices in San Francisco, and im going to end all diseases, he too is playing that game of breaking the world and then showing up as the trusty repairman. You know, ruth marcus, you look at Donald Trumps record. You can say he is a hard core i guess you cant say conservative really, but a plutorrat almost. But you look at his policies, you look at the tax cuts when everybody predicted there would be massive stock bye backs, the rich would get richer. Donald trump bragged to his friends at maralago how he made them richers with tax cuts. You look at what he has done on health care. You look how Health Care Costs are going to explode moving forward. You look at all of his policies. There is no populist there is no populist to him at all. Hes an even harsher archer again, i dont even know what the word is. Hypocrite . Well, i mean hes obviously hes a hypocrite. Theres a possibility there. But his policies though, it has been a complete scam, the working class americans, and yet so many working class Americans Still buy into the scam. I totally agree with you. This is really one of the, i guess, many enduring mysteries of the trump presidency, how he can so simultaneously preach populist rhetoric and present himself as the tribune of the ordinary american and the working class, and he alone can fix it, and the way that hes fixing it helps so grossly and people who hes purporting to champion. I guess i have a champion for annan in that regard. You talk about the arsonist, but it feels to me like youre lumping different calibers of arsonists and different kinds of arsonists together. Zuckerberg, davos, aspen crowd you started writing about, they may be misguided and sort of fooling themselves in the way they think about their goodness but it strikes me that theyre a different brand of arsonist then donald trump is. Youre absolutely right. The brazilian writer has this line, its an alliance of the naive and the shrewd. A lot of the winners of our age, the winners i describe as taking all, a lot of them are cynics in the way donald trump is a cynic. I think a lot of finance people on wall street who make as much money as possible and gut the companies they buy out are pretty cynical and they understand giving a little back to a womens shelter or Homeless Program or whatever is going to be lubricate the continuing taking. I also think theres another group which you refer to. Silicon valley is full of those kinds of people who i think genuinely believe theyre making the world a better place. Genuinely think theyre building the tools of emancipation. Genuinely think that liberation will come if they are left alone by journalists and by government and allowed to build massive enterprises. The reason i subtitled this book the elite charade of changing the world is both the naive and shrewd are a problem for regular people. Theyre a different kind of problem. I think that davos aspen crowd youre referring to is very different and generally decent which donald trump is not. What i argue in this book is all of these people, whether the naive or the shrewd, have stolen the idea of changing the world from regular people, from movement, from the idea of passing laws and reforming our society. We need to take changing the world back. And then were all talking about populism in negative terms here but were also engaging in a lot of class warfare and i cant think of anything more populous than that. Youre citing the book rather favorably which is, in my view, a despicable tone which reinforces murderers. It is a class warfare document that is taught to students and teaches them to believe in their victimization. And then you seem to reinforce that view. Go for it. Guilty as charged. Ill let you proceed. The suggestion that real estate values driven up as a result of consumer activity, Economic Activity has created homeless in San Francisco strikes me as ludicrous. Its Public Policy that allowed San Francisco to become the home of homelessness. What is the difference between you and donald trump . Are you not shades of the same specter . Were very different shades to begin with. The difference twe me and donald trump, i mean, how long do you have . I actually think youre raising an important point which is i dont think populism, which just means peoplism, is necessarily a bad thing. I think theres good populism and bad populism. Donald trump is bad populism. I think a populism would be focused i think theres bad populism on the left. When you have Elizabeth Warren a couple weeks ago saying maybe corporations should be forced to factor social benefit into their bottom lines, thats populist to me but its a good populism. Thats not a populism of deporting families and separating people on a border. Its a populism of trying to make sure that the few are foot the only people who benefit from progress. We talk a lot about inequality and you talked about wealth create. What i tried to do in this book is reframe that conversation. Because i think inequality makes peoples eyes glaze over. Part of what is happening in this country is that theres actually a great amount of innovation that we have. We actually have quite a bit of wealth. We have quite a bit of we have some of the best companies in the world. Probably the majority of best companies in the world are in one country. But somehow most people over the last 39 years, 1979, have not benefited from all those Amazing Things we have. We have innovation but we dont have progress. The average american in the bottom half of this country saw their income rise from 16,000 to 16,200 since 1979. That is not a society in my view that is working. And if populism means fighting for those people, im in. I think actually there are a lot of sconservatives that woul agree that current trend lines are very challenging. I remember Alan Greenspan several years ago saying one of the greatest threats to american capitalism was income disparity. And the fact there are several other western countries that actually are doing better than the United States in upward mobility. I want to continue this conversation. Hopefully in the next week or so. Annan, please come back. When you come back, im going to make sure noahs here too. I just want to add, you know, i travel the country a lot for my reporting. I hear three questions more than any other from people which is why are we in this mess. And i hear from both sides. How do we get out of this mess. And what can i personally do to make an impact. And if you wonder those question, i would urge you to pick up this book. All right. And also commentary magazine. Read them together. Make your evening complete. Shot and the chaser. Exactly. Winners take all, the elite charade of changing the world. Annan, come back. Well be back in two minutes with some final thoughts on another busy morning. Have you lost weight . Of course i have ever since i started renting from national. Because national lets me lose the wait at the counter. And choose any car in the aisle. And i dont wait when i return, thanks to drop go. At national, i can lose the wait. And keep it off. Looking good, patrick. I know. vo go national. Go like a pro. Are you one sneeze away from being voted out of the carpool . Try zyrtec®. Its starts working hard at hour one. And works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. Stick with zyrtec® and muddle no more®. Lets go to ruth marcus. Ruth, tuesday, were only at tuesday but it seems like an incredibly busy week. Give us your final thoughts this morning. Ive been thinking about the end of heroes and this onetwo punch were reeling from, both the loss of senator john mccain. Im not a republican but its really affected me deeply to think about his legacy and think about that kind of heroism he embodied. At the same time, im not a catholic but im very moved and concerned by what were learning or thinking about learning about pope francis who we also thought of as heroic and seems to have faltered here. I think that theres a lot of pain that the public is experiencing right now as we transition to a World Without very many heros. Noah, final thoughts. Id like to read briefly from a passage from john mccains final senate floor speech. Quote, america has made a greater contribution than any other nation to an International Order that has liberated more people from tyranny and poverty than ever before in history. We have not we had been the greatest example, the greatest supporter and greatest defender of that order. We are not afraid. We do not cover other peoples land and wealth. We do not hide behind walls. We breach them. We are a blessing to humanity. No one makes that case nen more. I dont think the last president made it without caveats. Mike, it used to be us conservatives, it used to be republicans that loved making the case. Like john mccain did in his farewell speech. That america has fed and freed more people than any other country on the history of this planet. Thats why we should dwell on who he was and what he represented. The United States of america, its history, its present and as well as its past represent the fact our country is stronger than any momentarily difficulties were having right now. Our country is stronger than any momentary difficulties we have right now. I can only hope the red sox rotation will get stronger as we move into september. With that, joe, were going to be okay. Youre very optimistic for a lifelong red sox fan. That does it for morning joe. Thank you for being with us. Now lets pass it on to Chris Jansing. Chris. You know, you guys have your priorities straight. Thank you very much, joe. I am Chris Jansing in for stephanie ruhle. This morning, whats the deal . Trump touts a new agreement with mexico as the largest trade deal ever except its nowhere near