Morning joe. It is thursday, august 23rd. Joe has the morning off. He will be back tomorrow. We have Donny Deutsch with us along with professor at Princeton University and column at New York Post and contributor editor of Weekly Standard john and sam stein and washington Anchor Katy Kay and benjamin. Good to have you all onboard with us on another very busy morning. We begin with the very latest in President Trumps former lawyer implicating him in his guilty plea yesterday. Trump appeared to acknowledge his attorneys Campaign Finance violation and then walked it back in an interview all while maintaining its not a crime and say he blamed Attorney General Jeff Sessions for his former lawyers prosecution. The president tweeted, michael Former GOP representative Joe Scarborough and Mika Brezinski interview newsmakers, politicians and pundits about the issues of the day. Didnt come out of the campaign and thats big. But they werent, its not even a campaign violation. If you look at President Obama, he had a Massive Campaign violation. But he had a different Attorney General and they viewed it a lot differently. Ben, try to make sense of all the things that hes piling on to this answer here. Can you make a parallel between violations, the one that hes talking about in the Obama Administration and the payoff to a porn star and a Playboy Bunny made right before i believe the election was going into full. Well, to ask that question that way, you know, is the answer to it. So, look, part of what the president says, the only part thats true is that it is the case that normal campaign finance violations are handled routinely as a civil matter and there is a system like with any regulatory system of penalties and fines and those are handled as routine matters and dont invoke criminal offenses. When you engage in an elaborate scheme on the other hand to circumvent those regulatory requirements by hiding things, by paying people hush money, by not then reporting the Hush Money Payments as campaign contributions, youre going to invoke criminal authorities, or at least you may. And that is the difference between what he calls massive Campaign Finance problems that the administrators and technical filing errors for which they paid a fine and a scheme to get your personal lawyer to get tabloids or other entities to pay off former mistresses before the election to keep them quiet. There is no comparison to be drawn there. There is none. Its flabbergasting. The entire interview for many reasons is actually staggering at this point. And the fact that he thinks he can push things along by mushing the truth into just complete dribble, actually. He doesnt even make sense at times. Donny, ive been thinking all day yesterday about Michael Cohen and all the witches that so far have been brought in by mueller and pled guilty or indicted and i think if you look at what Michael Cohen has pled guilty to, how stupid do these people, how stupid are these people . Dont they know what is going to happen if they have committed these crimes and they are we havent heard it. As far as cohen, you know, cohen was an attorney working for trump and, you know, youre directed by your boss and im not using the explanation, but i dont think at that point youre saying to yourself, should i do this, should i not do this, youre a lawyer, youre working. He has stood up and hes facing the consequences. I think im going to stay with the stupid place in the case of trump and the republicans and that very brave gentleman Mitch Mcconnell who, you are the leader of the Republican Party. You are the face other than after the president , you are it. You go down the totem pole and there it is. The president s personal attorney has pleaded guilty to taking directions violating a felons law and you have no comment. No comment. And, john, were going to stay in this kind of stupid universe, what does Mitch Mcconnell think when he thinks people are watching . Oh, we wont ask you again, thats okay. I think what he thinks is theyre in hell and their whole hope is that theyre productive enough and serve the interest of enough voters that they can spare themselves disaster in november. The timeline is very short here for them. Its from here until the november elections. Tailwinds are looking very bad for them. If they can just focus on their work, ignore trump, get judges, get Brett Kavanaugh confirmed and Mitch Mcconnell can say, i did all of this. I had nothing to do with this guy. So, he doesnt want to talk about it because there is nothing in it for him in terms of this timeline from now until november to say a single word about trump, about cohen, about manafort and about mueller. Anything he says is a disaster. If he says, i no longer support trump, the Republican Base turns on him. If he says i support trump, he sells his soul. His wife is in the cabinet. Its not good. Mika, let me ask a stupid question since were on the stupid line to johns point about lets do Business As Usual. The reality going into that fox poll is that basically and this is the Signature Work of the Trump Administration so far has been the tax plan. That is 11 less popular than the Signature Work of the Obama Administration, which is, of course, obama care. You take the Enthusiasm Polls and optimism which is down 11 points going in the right direction and you take the president on tand other than th core republicans nobody else thinks the economy is going in the right direction. Hard for them to run on Business As Usual at this point. Look, weve got so much to cover and so much more to get to. But it is flabbergasting how stupid Michael Cohen and the other that we have covered in this witchhunt, which ill use the president s word. I dont get the Republican Party at this point because, because theyre leaders. And its about right and wrong. Its about the fabric of this country. Theyre not leaders. Its about the truth. And theyre not leaders and theyre letting americans down. We move on, i want to get sam, benjamin, back in. You will notice that President Trump has changed his original explanation for when he knew about Michael Cohen arranging for payments to women. Did you know about the 130,000 paid to Stormy Daniels . Then why did Michael Cohen make it . Youll have to ask Michael Cohen. Michael is my attorney and youll have to ask michael. Do you know where he got the money to make that payment . No, i dont know. When it comes time for the financing. What financing . Well have to pay no, no. The president has an explanation for the payment that he thinks makes everything okay. You have to understand what he did and they werent taken out of Campaign Finance. That is a much bigger thing. Did they come out of the campaign . They didnt come out of the campaign . They came from me. I tweeted about it. I dont know. You know, but i tweeted about the payments. Lying, again. Experts say that claim Doesnt Work Out either, you just cant evade Campaign Finance. It was during a campaign. Sam and eddy, it was during the campaign. It was to protect his campaign from knowing about his lascivious relationships and affairs with multiple women and not wanting his wife to find out and americans to find out so he could win the presidency. How stupid, lets stay on theme here, how stupid does the president think the American People are . Theres so many levels of stupidity, i guess. One is what we hit on which is he is admitting to the Campaign Finance crime essentially. Correct. What he wanted to say is we tried, you know, we meant to disclose it in the proper fashion and we failed to do so, we should have amended a report and maybe that would have given him legal cover. Instead in the illegal form. Secondarily, of course, is the whole issue of the fact that hes on Tape Recording admitting to knowing about the payment and now says he only knew about it after the fact. Hes asking us to believe up is down and the sky is green, whatever. Thats crazy in its own right. Im struck a little bit and i tweeted about it as if that absolves, i have no idea what hes talking about. Who care physical you twes if y it, It Doesnt Matter. One thing that was sort of nagging me. We have basically just taken it as a given and not at all an extraordinary thing that he had an affair on his wife with a 5monthold kid and paid hush money to cover it up. I mean, this in normal president ial times would have been extraordinary scandal, certainly for someone with the devoted support of the evangelical community. But at this juncture, were just sort of like, okay, he did that and lets talk about the Campaign Finance crime element of it. It just seems crazy that were losing the moral element of it. Not that i am a moral warrior here. But he does have a huge evangelical following that under and emails. She said they would also submit various records via subpoena including records from the media company, this as Wall Street Journal reports that the chairman of American Media incorporat incorporated, which publishes the National Enquirer provided prosecutors with details about payments mr. Cohen arranged with women who including mr. Trumps knowledge of the deals. Cited people close to cohen and others familiar with prosecut s prosecutors discussions posted late last night. A tweet from the president and, of course, i asked, alex, the timing of his tweets. Tweeting from 9 37 in the morning to 1 10 the next morning washington time. This came at 1 10 a. M. No collusion. Rigged. Witchhunt. Something keeping him up at night . Yeah, looks like it. Not very usual for the president to be up at 1 00 in the morning, more like 6 00 in the morning when he wakes up. Hes not sleeping very well and that is not surprising because there are legal and political implications for him with this one. All around the issue of Campaign Finance and as Wall Street Journal report seems to be hinting the two women we know about or are there other women a and, in that case, do we get into the realm of racketeering that there was a concerted effort to protect the candidate with multiple payoffs potentially to try and stop damaging stories against him. And then, the political one. Thats what is really interesting at the moment. The question of whether this 87 of the Republican Party and sam was eluding to the evangelical base earlier. Any of them will shift their minds when it comes to the president because of what they heard over the course of the last 24 hours and what else is going to come out from michael cohen. Our initial reporting, the number of republicans and trump voters that weve spoken to over the course of the last day suggest that, you know, they are still rock solid behind the president. We spoke to one woman who said everybody commits some kind of Finance Crimes and we said, well, this is the president of the United States. And her response was, oh, that just makes him human. There is no point to which some of these supporters will aband on the president. Were going to have to watch those numbers and see whether those numbers decline because of this. Absolutely. I think the fox news polling that we started the show with are quite telling. People supporting the Mueller Probe and they feel the president is up to no good. We started the show with the concept of stupid. At some point, people are going to ask themselves the question as to whether or not weve got nefarious going on pointing all to putin. At some point, people are not this stupid and theyve got to be up to something. Thats my gut. But weve got so many facts to work with, well just stick with the facts. So, is sticking to the facts, Benjamin Whaurkts is tt is the and present danger . It has to be Michael Cohens direct statement under oath in court that he committed felonies at the direction of the president , then the candidate personally. Thats a very threatening thing. Its not, you know, russia. Its not Obstruction Of Justice and interactions with the Law Enforcement apparatus of the country as president. But it is a, you know, its the most dramatic, serious thing that is ongoing right now. Still ahead on morning joe, is the president poised to pardon Paul Manafort. What hes saying about that. As joyce vance reports on twitter, one of the consequences of having children in cages who came to this country with parent who wanted to seek asylum, is that you lose the moral authority to look into allegations of wrongs in other countries. Agerelated macular degeneration, amd, i wanted to fight back. My doctor and i came up with a plan. It includes preservision. Only Preservision Areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula recommended by the National Eye Institute to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd. Thats why i fight. Because its my vision. Preservision. Also, in a greattasting chewable. The first survivor of alzis out there. Ase and the Alzheimers Association is going to make it happen. But we wont get there without you. Join the fight with the Alzheimers Association. So you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24 7 tech support. Yep, thanks guys. I think he might need some support. Yes. Start them off right, with the School Supplies they need at low prices all summer long. Like these for only 2 or less at office depot officemax. Mom okay we need to get all your School Supplies today. School. Grade. Done. Done. Hit the Snooze Button and get low prices on School Supplies all summer long. Like these for only 2 or less at office depot officemax. Its a revolution in sleep. The new sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now, from 899, during sleep numbers biggest sale of the year. It senses your movement, and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. It even helps with this. So you wake up ready to put your pedal to the metal. And now, all beds are on sale. Save 50 on the new sleep number 360 limited Edition Smart bed. Plus, 24month financing and free home delivery. Ends saturday. Sleep number. Proven, quality sleep. But theres one. That blows them all out of the water. Hydro boost water gel from neutrogena®. With Hyaluronic Acid it goes beneath the surface to plump skin cells from within and lock in hydration leaving skin so supple, it actually bounces back. The results will blow you away hydro boost and our gentle exfoliating cleanser from neutrogena® this wifi is fast. I know i know i know i know when did brian move back in . Brians back . He doesnt get my room. Hes only going to be here for like a week. Like a month, tops. Oh boy. Wifi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. In many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40s. Like everybody else. One of the reasons i respect Paul Manafort so much he went through that trial. They make up stories. People make up stories. This whole thing about flipping, they call it. I know all about flipping for 30 or 40 years. I have been watching flippers. Everything is wonderful and they get ten years in jail and they flip on whoever is next or as high as you can go. It should be outlawed. If somebody is going to spend five years like Michael Cohen or 10 years or 15 years in jail because he defrauded some bank, the last two were the tiny ones. Campaign violations are considered not a big deal, frankly. But if somebody defrauded a bank and hes going to get ten years in jail or 20 years in jail, but if you can Say Something bad about donald trump and youll go down to two years or three years, which is the deal he made, in all fairness to him, most people are going to do that. And ive seen it many times. Ive had many friends involved in this stuff. Its called flipping and it almost ought to be illegal. Wow. Wow. Benjamin, well let you stew on that a little bit and get right back to you. John, President Trump is reportedly considering a pardon for Paul Manafort using a similar rationale that has been floated for why top officials met at trump tower in 2016 and that defense is everybody does it. Take a look. I have Great Respect for what hes done in terms of what hes gone through. You know, he worked for Ronald Reagan for years and worked for bob dole and worked, his firm worked for mccain. He worked for many, many people. Many, many years. And i would say what he did some of the charges they threw against him, every consultant and every lobbyist in washington probably does. According to fox news, the president reportedly said that he would consider Pardoning Manafort. The former head of the Trump Campaign was convicted on tuesday on eight counts of bank and tax fraud, as well as failing to disclose foreign bank accounts. The president spent part of the day yesterday railing against the outcome of manaforts trial and the jury being unable to reach a verdict on ten of the other counts against him. He wrote on twitter, the president , a large number of counts, 10 could not even be decided in the Paul Manafort case, witchhunt. But we now know a single juror held out on convicting manafort on all 18 charges. Trump added, i feel very badly for Paul Manafort and his wonderful family. Justice took a 12yearold tax case, among other things, applied tremendous pressure on him. Such respect for a brave man. Following the president s tweets, the white house disputed that he was planning on Pardoning Manafort. The manafort case doesnt have anything to do with the president , doesnt have anything to do with his campaign and anything to do with the white house. Even if it doesnt have anything to do, is that something he was discussing with the team, does it come up im not aware of any conversations regarding that at all. Other than actually when he was asked by a news outlet earlier this week he said that he hadnt been thinking about that at all. One of the more useless moments of the day would be the White House Press briefing. Every single day. So, john, the concept of potentially Pardoning Manafort and flipping should be outlawed, go. So, as the head of the executive branch, he is the chief Criminal Justice officer in the United States. You just heard the president of the United States say that one of the key ways in which you uncover criminal conspiratorial action which is to put pressure on the defendant to give up other people who were involved in that conspiracy should be outlawed. So, lets just think about that for a minute. Thats number one. Number two is what hes doing to manafort, people are always frankie five angels is going to testify against the family and they go and get his brother from sicily to sit in the courtroom to shame him into not testifying because that would be dishonorable. This is trump saying to manafort, dont break. Dont break. Dont flip. I respect you. Youre wonderful. What a great guy. Dont break. And i guess in there is the hint that he might pardon him. By the way, i thought that godfather analogy, i thought they were going to kill the brother. But what i find amazing about trump, mr. Strength and mr. Bravery is he would be the first human being in the history of human beings that would flip on anybody. So, i actually believe that even if they came to his children, he would send his children to jail before he went to jail. He is that depraved of any moral center. He sits there and talks about the weakness and breaking point. Stunning. I want to hear from sam and katty, at what point do they break but, first, benjamin, is a pardon possible and what are the legal avenues anyone could take if that happens . A pardon is certainly possible. The president s power to pardon people for federal offenses is essentially unrestricted and Paul Manafort has now convictions and a trial coming up and all those charges are charges on which the president could tha could pardon him. He takes an oath to preserve and protect the constitution and to take care that the laws are faithfully executed. And you just showed a whole bunch of clips of him encouraging somebody not to cooperate with a lawful, federal investigation in which he has personal interests. And i, i just think that is worth pausing over. Because he is such a peculiar figure, we treat it as this comical thing and talk about it in terms of the godfather and whatever. This is the president of the United States who went on Television Yesterday and talked disparagingly about the idea of cooperating with federal Law Enforcement. That should shock people. I mean, thats an Impeachable Offense. I mean, if you actually think about it inn ea series of artics of impeachment. The idea that the president would knowingly advocate impeding federal investigations could be viewed as an a highcrime and misdemeanor. As a violation of his constitutional oath. At this point, the only flipping that is going on is the president. He is like a fish on a hot, dry dock flipping around trying to get water. That is the flipping that is going on right now. And he aint going back into the water. I dont know how this ends, but ill tell you right now, the walls appear to be closing in. The question for sam, katty and eddy after the break will be about the republicans and if the pardon is a bridge too far for this president and for them in terms of their support for him. Well be right back. Insurance that wont replace 40 . Something that perhaps the president might want to keep in mind, also maybe fox news might want to keep that in mind. Eddy, flipping should be against where do we begin with what the president has even said as he spewed out his reaction to the legal siege that hes under yesterday to a fox reporter just going on and on around in circles about things like flipping should be outlawed. Yeah, so, the first thing that came to mind is an old saying that happens in urban america about snitches get stitches, right . There is a sense in which hes engaged in a no collaboration, no informing kind of campaign, which is very odd. And john and ben have made that point. I think whats clear is this. Donald trump is consistently in over his head. At every turn he seems to not know the facts, as if he cared, but he just seems to be just si simply at every turn and then in the midst of that being in over his head, he just flails all about. Right. And so what we see very clearly is that as he gets backed into this corner more and more, the danger of what will come out because he just simply doesnt know Anything Else to do because he doesnt have the capacity to do Anything Else. So, im really interested in the danger that follows from this. So, sam, take it to katty and john. Im curious to hear you all, first of all, talk about what is the wall for the republicans here . Is it going to be a pardon of Paul Manafort or are they going to let that go . Lets not even joke with ourselves here. Number one, is the pardon the wall and number two, at this point, really shouldnt republicans be able to see the Writing On The Wall . So, you know, its a good question. What line would he have to cross for republicans to finally abandon ship . And to be perfectly honest, i dont know. I certainly said lines have been crossed in the paths and i assume enough to undo him, but they never have. I think a pardon would approach that. Certainly a pardon at this juncture. It would signal essentially that he finds himself and his contemporaries and associates to be above the law, Paul Manafort was convicted by a jury of his peers on bank and tax fraud. If thats not good enough, that would suggest that were in a post judicial world. So, i would expect a lot of people to speak out at that point. But i, you know, i would also urge some caution. It looks like the fox news interview he did this trumpian thing where he said im looking into things and he doesnt really mean it. And, mostly, i would suspect that people around him still are urging him to just pump the brakes a little bit on this to say, to address pardons only after, for instance, the Mueller Investigation is done so it doesnt look like hes trying to impede it. But trump is, if anything, compulsive. So, who knows. I dont know what comes next. See, i think the danger has changed here. Shifted. For a year everybody was talking about how the danger has been the danger as mueller. So, what happened here is that Michael Cohen was, you know, pled in the Southern District of new york, this is the thing that where we have a palpable, we have an absolute claim of involvement in a felonious act by the president of the United States. Muellers out of it. So, in a funny way, he could pardon manafort. He could fire mueller. And the logic, by the way, of firing manafort. He has to fire mueller at the same time. Incredible injustice. Mueller is prosecuting innocent people and not fair and pardon Michael Flynn but none of that will change whats going on in the Southern District of new york, which is more jeopardizing him than mueller is. Okay. So, benjamin and then katty, please follow up. Benjamin, this is a massive investigation, ultimately, about the National Security of the United States of america. And whether or not our elections were tampered with by the russians which there is clear evidence that this is going on. At what point is a pardon actually Witness Tampering . Well, so, i dont know that a pardon is Witness Tampering, but i have to say when i heard the president yesterday making those statements, issuing those tweets. You know, my first reaction to it was, wow, what would the president have to do by way of talking in public to Paul Manafort and saying, dont cooperate. Dont, you know, dont flip before you would really see it the way you see it in the godfather when they have the guys brother, you know, in the room to send him a message. And i, you know, there is a statute that says that if you do that sort of thing with specific intent to corrupt, corruptly persuade a witness as to his testimony, you know, thats a crime. And, you know, i dont know what level of direct public communication to Paul Manafort that it would take in order to raise a question under that statute. But i, i do think that, you know, publicly signaling to a witness holding out a pardon for you, thinking about it, dont be a rat, flipping should be illegal. I have so much respect for you for not breaking. Your family. You know, your family is wonderful. To the extent youre saying these things in public in a specific effort to corruptly persuade a witness as to what, how they should interact with federal Law Enforcement. That gives me a lot of concerns. In terms of all the signals that Paul Manafort has been getting, frankly, if he doesnt get a pardon, i can imagine that hes going to be pretty annoyed about it, because the suggestion has been that he is going to get one. But if the president were to pardon him, he might do better to pardon him before the d. C. Trial because that is a trial that well get more documents on manafort shady dealings in terms with russia and ukraine and the kind of things that are central to the Mueller Investigation, much more than we had in the virginia trial. So, actually, if a pardon were coming probably in terms of the president s political benefit, it ought to come sooner than later. You asked the question, mika, we had indications from Lindsey Graham and john cornyn that this is something they dont like. I think the bigger wall, though, is going to be much more around russia and what the president does around russia. Not what the president says and were they really the ones that were doing the meddling that he still seems to be keen to say. But if the president were ready to take action, that is the only wall that the republicans would find really difficult to handle. That is the Republican Caucus in the senate is being unified on to taking tough action against russia. If we start seeing the president to act on russia to make life easier for the russians, as far as i can see, the only thing that the russians have been saying, okay, a step too far. My god, if they finally, finally do step up and say, wow, were concerned about what is happening, the question is going to be, where have you been, paul ryan . Where have you been, Mitch Mcconnell . Where have you been, republicans . Where have you been as this whole thing comes tumbling down. Jeremy peters will join us with anecdotal Information Reporting on some cracks inside trump world. Well be right back. Can be relentless. Tremfya® is for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. Im ready. With tremfya®, you can get clearer. And stay clearer. In fact, most patients who saw 90 clearer skin at 28 weeks stayed clearer through 48 weeks. Tremfya® works better than humira® at providing clearer skin, and more patients were symptom free with tremfya®. Tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms such as fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. Before starting tremfya® tell your doctor if you plan to or have recently received a vaccine. Ask your doctor about tremfya®. Tremfya®. Because you deserve to stay clearer. Janssen wants to help you explore cost support options. Just remember what youre seeing and what youre reading is not whats happening. Joining us now, someone who has been rather busy over the last year and a half, the fact checker columnist for the Washington Post. For the first time glen is using the word lie in regards to the president. The only other time he definitively used it was for lance armstrong. Glen, he is lying. There are oftentimes where he gets facts wrong on purpose and you can call it an untruth or Something Else, but at this point, where do you see that the president is blatantly lying, specifically . Well, this was a big decision for us, actually to use this word. And before you could never really get inside the persons head and determine did that person know when they were saying these things that it was not the truth. But we went through and looked at the various statements that the president or his associates have made on his behalf regarding these payments, and it is clear from the very beginning that he knew about the payments, he was involved in discussions about the payments, and yet, you know, told the American People repeatedly he didnt know about it. So, it left us no choice but to actually use that word lie. How about the dysfunctional brain defense. Hes just a flighty guy. If youre going into intent and use that l word which should be used thousands of times, how about, to use mikas analogy this Flipping Fish on the dock and his reality on any given moment for him is not a lie. Well, thats a very good point. I think the president is very situational. He may well believe what he says at the moment when he is saying it and there are many examples we have in our collection of false and misleading claims where he has said things repeatedly, even though it has been fact checked as families. But this gets to it a different level. This is a continuing sustained effort to mislead the American Public about what happened here. Its a kind of thing i would expect only to do, i hope, only once a presidency where you can actually document that this was a deliberate effort to lie, and i think the evidence is pretty clear that thats what we have here. So, you document that hes told over 4,000 untruths and now this is a lie. What does this mean for our democracy . When, for example, if i am not telling the truth im more comfortable in retreating into my silos, into spaces with people i trust. President trumps repeated lying seems to be only the very basic of democratic deliberation. What are the effects of this constant, shall we say trafficking in the untruth or in this instance a lie . For Pun Departmedits to talke impact of democracy but i dont think its necessarily working for the president. You look at the Approval Ratings he has despite a booming stock market and a pretty good economy, that the erosion of his credibility is something that is hurting him. And previous president s, when they were caught in a lie, you think of nixon and the bombing of cambodia or Dwight Eisenhower and the lying about the u2 flights. Those things undermine their credibility. Bill clinton and monica lewinsky. Its not a add that on top of, you know, his repeated misstatements and falsehoods, i dont think its necessarily good for him personally. John, quick thought on this to the point where we are getting the fact checker for the Washington Post calling the president , i guess i can say it, a liar. I think a lot of us have done this a lot earlier but i can understand the thought that goes into this. Im of the mind not to be the only Pop Culture Reference of the Blues Brothers when john belushi is in a tunnel facing his exgirlfriend who has a shotgun on him. I was waiting at the altar and you didnt show up what happened to you. And he says i got a flat tire, i got sick. You know, the dog ate my homework. You know, somebody crashed into my car. He just says everything in a row. And after he does it 20 or 25 times she says oh, honey so theres a way in which for a trump supporter the lies, the endless row of lies at some point either you say nothing come out of his mouth is truth or hes just trying so hard. He has all these enemies that come at him and its just so unfair. Bless his heart. You all know what that means in the south. Thank you both. Glen as well thank you. Coming up President Trump admits he knew about those Hush Money Payments but says its okay because it didnt come from Campaign Funds during a campaign. And Number Two Senate democrat dick durbin joins us as his colleagues try to dodge talks about impeachment. Morning joe is coming back. Whats the hesitation . Eh, it just feels too complicated, you know . Well sure, at first, but jj can help you with that. Jj, will you break it down for this gentleman . Hey, ian. You know, at Td Ameritrade, we can walk you through your Options Trades step by step until youre comfortable. I could be up for that. Thats taking Options Trading from wall st. To main st. Hey guys, wanna play some pool . Eh, im not really a pool guy. Whats the hesitation . Its just complicated. Stepbystep Options Trading support from Td Ameritrade mom okay we need to get all your School Supplies today. School. Grade. Done. Done. Hit the Snooze Button and get low prices on School Supplies all summer long. Like these for only 2 or less at office depot officemax. Welcome back to morning joe, its thursday, august 23rd, 2018. Donny deutsche is still with us along with professor and katty kay. Joining the conversation, Associate Editor of Commentary Magazine noah. New York Times Washington bureau chief elizabeth and Jeremy Peters and john harwood. Great group of reporters. Jeremy, lets start with your reporting this morning. Of course, a morning where we wake up to, lets see, the President Tweeting at 1 10 in the morning. So the president is not sleeping much. Looking a little swollen and rambling right and left. Were waking up to fox news polling showing that support for the Mueller Probe is growing rapidly. And concern that the president has either committed a crime or an Impeachable Offense is also growing. Fox news polling saying that. This morning you have reporting about cracks inside trump world. Tell us about it. I think, mika, that the level of distress among republicans broadly is about as serious as ive heard it since the access Hollywood Tape dropped. And thats because back then there was a real fear that this was all over. That his candidacy is no longer there. Thats the same type of worry im hearing from republicans. And inside trumps orbit theres a real concern that the type of reckless and impulsive and selfdestructive behavior hes known for will only get worse and they just dont know where its going go next, especially when you have all of these factors that have yet to play out, such as the Paul Manafort sentencing and will Paul Manafort try to cut some sort of deal before his sentencing. What is in bob word woodwards. What this is creating here is a real panic that if the house werent already lost, its pretty much all but gone to the republicans because the types of voters that they really need to come out are they voters who are, not exactly Trump Supporters, you would say, but they are republicans who are willing to look the other way. They look other way past charlottesville even though that might have bothered them. They looked the other way after helsinki. Its the drip, drip, drip of all the chaos and the bad behavior from the president that theyve said, you know what . Thats it. Were done. When those people stay home the Midterm Election is over for republicans. Okay. John harwood, dont we have to make a distinction between the different types of republicans. Youve been writing about the reckoning that donald trump now faces, but theres still the hard core republicans, i dont know if you would even call them resupporters, they are Trump Supporters, they buy into this. After the last 24 hours they keep telling us It Doesnt Matter what hes done with whom, how he paid them off because of north korea, because of the stock market, because of the tax cuts, because of the Supreme Court. And they will never abandon him. How important is it to get the numbers straight on who is still with him and who is now starting to waiver . Well, its very important. I do think that the core base for donald trump remains solid, but the Peripheral Base how big is it . Well, hes right now at 42 in the gallup poll. I think that he has hemoharrage College Educated voters. I think its telling. I had a conversation yesterday with tom cole of oklahoma a veteran republican member, former executive director of the National Republican committee, former head of the House Republican campaign and he said look im very disturbed by what i see. There is a point at which members will act. He even used the i word. He said if something clear and convincing and impeachable comes out members will act. I think its significant and elizabeth and jeremys colleagues did a story also last evening about conversation with Republican Leaders signalling members that if you feel angst and youre in trouble you go ahead and speak out against the president. I think that counts. And it doesnt mean that anybody is going to turn en masse, but we all remember, at least all of us who are old enough to have lived through the watergate situation, we know that Richard Nixons allies hung with him very, very deep into that process and at some point they turned. It was very late. It was when the Watergate Tapes came out. I dont think that has occurred yet, but i think republicans are starting to contemplate when it might occur and to prepare themselves. So lets get to the latest in President Trumps former lawyer implicating him and his guilty plea. Yesterday trump appeared to acknowledge his attorneys Campaign Finance violation and then walked it back in an interview all while maintaining its not a crime and said he blamed Attorney General Jeff Sessions for his former lawyers prosecution. The president tweeted, Michael Cohen pled guilty to two counts of Campaign Finance violation that are not a crime. President obama had a big Campaign Finance violation and it was easily settled. Trump was referring to a late filing on a small dollar donations by the Obama Campaign which resulted in a large fine given the scale of the operation but is pretty different than knowingly concealing Campaign Spending as pleaded toby cohen. By the way on women that they are trying to silence. And which is routinely prosecuted in Criminal Court as with the fraud case against john edwards under the Obama Justice department. Heres the president on fox news explaining why he thinks cohen flipped. He makes a better deal when he uses me like everybody else. One of the reasons why i respect Paul Manafort so much is he went through that trial you know they make up stories. People make up stories. This whole thing about flipping, they call it. I know all about flipping. For 30, 40 years ive been watching flippers. Everything is wonderful and then they get ten years in jail and they flip on whoever the next highest one is or as high as you can go. It almost sort of ought to be outlawed. Its not fair. If somebody is going to spend five years like Michael Cohen or ten years or 15 years in jail because of a taxicab industry, because he defrauded some bank the last two were the tiny one, Campaign Violations are considered not a big deal, frankly. But if somebody defrauded a bank and hes going get ten years in jail or 20 years in jail but if you can Say Something bad about donald trump and you go down to two years or three years which is the deal he made, in all fairness to him most people are going to do that. And ive seen it many times. Ive had many friends involved in this stuff. Its called flipping and it almost ought to be illegal. I dont know where to begin. Elizabeth, help me out here. You took the words out of my mouth. I dont know where to start. Its staggering. Let me ask you this. Okay. First of all, what i see, again, in that interview is the president flipping like a fish on a dock. Like i said earlier, literally gasping for air. He barely makes sense. If you pull away and you look at the totality of the day yesterday its hey Paul Manafort, ill give you a pardon. Youre a nice guy. You have a nice family. Stay with me. Ill give you a pardon. Michael cohen, youre dead to me. Well, theres two things i noticed. One is that hes not talking like hes the president of the United States. Hes talking as if hes involved hes talking like somebody i dont want to say its just not the way the president of the United States should look at this. Paul manafort has been convicted by a jury of a serious crime, and hes praising him for hanging on for not breaking whereas Michael Cohen hes very critical of him for talking to Law Enforcement as is the law. The other thing is that its not a crime to he also said in that interview its not a problem if he gave the money to silence the women from his personal accounts so, therefore, its not a Campaign Finance violation. This is not true at all. Any kind of spending on behalf of your campaign, if its not disclosed is a problem. And these payments were not disclosed. Doesnt matter where the money came from. I wish that might have been pointed out to him as a response to his ridiculous allegation. Noah, youll say it, what do you see happening here elizabeth was very kind. Ill say it. The president sounds like a mob boss. Hes talking about his former Campaign Chairman defrauding the public, robbing taxpayers, defrauding tiny banks and praising him like hes paul servino. He took his pinch like a man. The notion, for example, mr. Cohen is flipping, Turning States Evidence and that the Chief Executive of the nations laws is coming out against Turning States Evidence. This saline that has been crossed. Again, we cannot go back. This should be examined thoroughly by historians the moment at which our nation turned a corner and unless republicans behave as if this is an abuse, a serious abuse, perhaps even an impeachable abuse well very much regret this moment and what we lost in it. There was an interesting strategic shift in the fox news clip before the previous one. A new defense. It started with well its a witchhunt. Then you cant believe what people are saying. Then its not really a crime. His Newest Defense is well im doing such a good job. He literally said the words out of his mouth were you would be poor without me. Talk about a fascist line. John harwood, he literally said they cant impeach me because im doing such a good job, the stock market would crash and you, he used those words, you would be poor without me and he pointed to his head. So thats his new defense. Look how good im doing, look at the stock market. Cant do anything to me. Holding hostage. He sounds like a mob boss thats true. I see Something Else when you look at the accumulation of those clips. People talk about donald trump as a narcissist. Im the difference whether people go to jail or not. They can turn on me and get a lighter sentence. Im the one whose the difference between whether youre rich or poor. Im doing a good job so you cant go after me. Hes not showing a moral sense. Hes not showing maturity. Hes acting like somebody whose got something wrong with him in terms of his level of maturity. Whether that is whether thats narcissism he only thinks about whats good or bad for him in that moment and thats not what you expect from a president. So jeremy, i think the description of what we just saw on fox news is pretty on point that we turned a point. We hit a moment. What does it mean you say there are cracks. What does it mean when we confront the silence of Senate Majority leader mcconnell, the silence of paul ryan or you read bob costas piece in the the Washington Post and talks to a republican donor who says this is a crisis point but we support his agenda. How do we square those two facts, those two realities. You still have support. Then we saw what we saw on fox. This is the bargain that the Republican Party made with donald trump when they gave him the nomination. Or i should say when he basically hijacked the nomination from the Party Leaders who did not want him to be their nominee. They decided okay were willing to overlook the personal flaws, the bad behavior the lack of professionalism and immaturity because hell give us judges, because hell deregulate, hell cut taxes. You know what . Thats what voters are seeing because they hear it from the president himself and i cannot overstate how much weight this president s words carry with his base, more so probably than any president weve seen in our lifetime. When he says it, its true. When he says, no, i didnt break any laws. People say, yeah, thats right. No, he didnt do anything wrong. He didnt break any laws. Thats why its so hard for republicans to criticize him and to say hold on a second, a line has been crossed. They wont said because to do so would be political suicide. I frankly dont see any point right now at which the Party Decides to say, you know what, mr. President , you just gone too far. They will say it privately but never said publicly. So, to use noahs word, more from the mob boss president and his interview with fox, hes now blaming this is in this part of the interview, hes blaming the Justice Department. Take a look. I put in an Attorney General that never took control of the Justice Department, Jeff Sessions. Never took control of the Justice Department. Its an incredible thing. When you see muller with conflict. Comey is his best friend. He had a nasty Business Transaction with me in which he never reported. Ive been talking about it. He never reports it. You look at the bad things. He wanted the fbi job. That Christopher Wray has. Christopher wray was recommended by Rod Rosenstein. The fbi ill tell you what if you took a poll in the fbi i guarantee you one thing. I do very well. Theres such corruption. Before i got here its from before i got here. Its the Obama Administration. And you look at what happened. They surveilled my campaign. Very simple. The fisa report. The phoney fake Rod Rosenstein signed the last fisa report. It bothers me. Will you fire him . Will you fire session . Ill tell you what, i wanted to stay uninvolved but when everybody sees whats going on in the Justice Department i put justice now with quotes. Its a very sad day. Jeff sessions recused himself which he shouldnt have done or he should have told me. Even my enemies say that Jeff Sessions should have told you that he was going to recuse himself and then you wouldnt have put him in. He took the job and then he said im going recuse myself. I said what kind of a man is this . All right. Elisabeth and then katty kay. Elisabeth, i mean at this point this looks like a completely nonfunctional white house with a raging unhinged president whose clearly disregarding the truth and trying to save himself while theres a massive investigation on pertaining to our National Security and our election process, we have a president who cozies up to putin, helsinki, north korea. At what point do people with any sense of moral compass or any knowledge of history, National Security and Foreign Policy step up at this point . Inside the white house . Right now the white house staff is maggie and katie rogers yesterday just keeping their heads down trying to weather this one out. They are basically theyve been in the trenches for so long, this is normal for them. I would say in that clip we just saw, this is the president s Greatest Hits of the last year. A year ago was the first time he told us in an interview that he was upset about Jeff Sessions and its become sort of normal now for the president of the United States to go after his own Attorney General and his own Justice Department. Hes also repeated one of the most amazing statements of his first year, which is that the Obama Administration was eavesdropping, bugging trump tower. So i dont know. Youre right. He just repeats himself. He spins these sort of fantasies. He goes in circles. Its hard to make sense of what he just said there. Other than he kind of he pulls it all together in sort of this free form rambling statement and he goes in circles. I dont know what else to say. Katty kay, the world is watching. What are they seeing . Look, the whole past 24 hours is completely dominated News Headlines. Certainly in europe it took up about half of our domestic news bulletin last night. People are staggered by what they are seeing. They keep asking this question where does this actually lead . I think what jeremy was saying about trump support serious absolutely critical. We do have what is becoming a cult of personality around the president and in cuts of personality his followers believe word for word what they are being told by their leader and they will never abandon him over this. Which puts the Republican Leadership in this very difficult position as they are constantly saying can i afford to move away from the president when we know that his poll ratings are so high and so solid and he was right about being able to go out on to fifth avenue and shoot somebody. He got that one right. I guess the question, noah, are we now having to weigh up how severe the potential legal ramifications, not just of the cohen and manafort cases are but whatever else mueller might have, you know, if there is Obstruction Of Justice and how severe is the underlying crime behind that of collusion and that really is going, i think, will be the only thing that pushes eventually the president away from office or republicans away from supporting him because for the moment politically he just seems so solid, doesnt he . The republican relationship with donald trump is transactional. If after november it doesnt look like hes the Political Force that we think he is at the polls, if his 37 , 40 looks like 37 , 40 to republicans and lose the house and staring down the barrel of a rough 20 20rks the calculation would change. Ill say one thing. Youll be left with a House Of Representatives thats smaller and more loyal to trump because the moderates will be purged. Theyve already retired. I got to say, guys. I have a higher opinion of t electorate. Yes, its true that donald trump has high 80s ratings among republicans. However, throughout Donald Trumps presidency a majority of the American People have said that hes dishonest. If his base i think a lot of the people in his base, i dont know that they believe him word for word, its just that they like the people that hes fighting against, including us, including illegal immigrants, including africanamericans. They identify with the enemies hes chosen. But if donald trump was so strong politically, republicans would not now be on track to lose house to. They are in serious political danger and they know it. John, just word for word as far as Trump Supporters believing him, the most stunning poll i ever heard is a cbs poll that said strong Trump Supporters, if he says something, 91 take it as the truth. If their friends and family tell them something 63 tell them. So to them Donald Trumps words are more believable, more truthful than their family or friends. Thats only about a quarter of the American Public. Right. Right. Still quite a big number. Yes, exactly. I have some thoughts on who is going run if he doesnt. Our thanks to the entire New York Times newsroom. Still ahead on morning joe weve been talking about the new polling on bob mueller and the russia probe and new numbers on congress and who voters want to run capitol hill. Well show you those ahead. And bring in the second ranking Senate Democrat dick durbin. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Youve tried moisturizer after moisturizer and now, all beds are on sale. Save 50 on the new sleep number 360 limited Edition Smart bed. Plus, 24month financing and free home delivery. Ends saturday. Sleep number. Proven, quality sleep. The first survivor of alzis out there. Ase and the Alzheimers Association is going to make it happen. But we wont get there without you. Join the fight with the Alzheimers Association. This wifi is fast. I know i know i know i know when did brian move back in . Brians back . He doesnt get my room. Hes only going to be here for like a week. Like a month, tops. Oh boy. Wifi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. In many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40s. Amid all thats going on President Trump has decided to weigh into South African race politics. While evidently watching Cable News Last Night the president tweeted at one network quote, i have asked Secretary Of State pompeo to closely study the south africa land and farm seizures and expropriations and the large scale killing of farmers. South african government is now sizing land from white farmers. The South African Mail Guardian this is part of a racist Conspiracy Theory thats long been a rallying cry among White Nationalist taens roots of it can be traced back to an extremist, farright wing group who describes itself as preparing for a coming violent race resolution to prevent a quote white genocide. The group has reportedly met with farright groups and Media Contacts in the u. S. In an effort to garner support. The South African government has responded to trumps Tweet Quote South Africa totally rejects this narrow perception which only seeks to divide our nation and reminds us of our colonial past. So he divides our country and now hes working on others. Eddie, you first. This is consistent. Look the only words we get out of Donald Trumps mouth about predominantly african countries or African Descendant countries is they are shole countries or in this case hes trafficking in Conspiracy Theories to in some ways feed red meat to his base. This is nonsense. Its silly. But its consistent with the kind of cultural warrior that he is. At the same time hes doing this with regards to South African white farmers, i think two of them perhaps might have been killed in some instance with majority of folks that have been subject to any kind of violence, nonwhite farmers in this instance. Hes lshall we say, playing the card with regards to the Mollie Tibbetts murder. This horrific murder in iowa. Hes saying that this is a result of not having the wall. Here this is a morally debased man who will do anything to protect himself teen divert attention from the fact that he has been noted as a nonindicted coconspirator in a felony. This is how bad he is as a human being. Its even more peroni show us than that. Here we have a case here where its pretty evident that he has no clue what the policy is or at least he didnt have a clue what the policy was and he weighed in on i want based on a Cable News Segment he saw visavis tucker carlson. The president is watching fox news and decides ill weigh into World Affairs like this on twitter, thats a really odd way to conduct international diplomacy. Yeah, the policy is or what tucker was talking about has roots in White Nationalists online forums, basically its a relic of the early 20th century when land was taken from black farmers, trying to reverse those wrongs. It wasnt really a move fast enough in recent years so they are trying to actually get land back to black farmers. There are debates over whether and how they are doing it. But, you know, the adthat this is reverse racism against white farmers ignores basically a century of history. Its damaging for trump to weigh in on policy in this matter and i will note one thing. This is the first time that as president hes tweeted about africa or used the word africa in a tweet and for him to do it in this particular fashion is gross. Predictions yesterday morning was that he would jump into the Arms Of Fox Hosts and tweet about a foreign country, trying to deflect. Strangely the News Headlines are so big and so serious and the facts are so strong that the deflections dont appear to be working. Coming up investigators in new york subpoena Michael Cohen for information on its investigation into the trump fusion. Well talk to the Washington Post reporter who won a pulitzer for his reporting on the Trump Foundation. At t provides edgetoedge intelligence, covering virtually every part of your retail business. So that if your customer needs shoes, hes got wide feet. With edgetoedge intelligence youve got near real time inventory updates. Hell find the same shoes in your store that he found online hell be one happy, very forgetful wide footed customer. At t provides edge to edge intelligence. It can do so much for your business, the list goes on and on. Thats the power of. If your customer also forgets socks you could send him a coupon for that item. Are you one sneeze away from being voted out of the carpool . Try zyrtec®. Its starts working hard at hour one. And works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. Stick with zyrtec® and muddle no more®. These are the specialists were proud to call our own. Experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. Expert medicine works here. Learn more at cancercenter. Com member of the Judiciary Committee Senate Democratic whip dick durbin of illinois. Several democrats have cancelled or refused meetings with President Trumps Supreme Court nominee while Senator Durbin says he will meet judge Brett Kavanaugh later this morning. Senator, thanks for being on this morning. Theres a lot going on. But you feel its important to meet with Brett Kavanaugh and let things move forward . Of course, i do. This is the seventh Supreme Court nominee that i will meet with. I have a lot of questions to ask of him, particularly in light of the verdicts and guilty pleas that came down last tuesday. You see Brett Kavanaugh as judge has some unusual positions. When president clinton was being investigated he was Industry Dent in pushing forward for that investigation. Then he publicly came out and said that a president should not be investigated or prosecuted in office. It was an interesting theory and a change of his position, but completely relevant now in the conversation that were facing in light of last tuesday. So, what do you think of your colleagues who are trying to put this off, and say that there are bigger things going on. Do you think thats fair . Well, i do. I dont disagree with the premise here that in light of all of the intrigue and accusations that are swirling in washington, the thought that were going to put a person on the Supreme Court for a lifetime appointment, who will be the swing vote for a generation or more, in a moment when were on the threshold of a constitutional crisis, i think argues to delay this, to beyond the election at least. Im going to meet go ahead. Senator durbin its katty kay here. On the issue of impeachment, do you feel that the events of the two day raysed the calculation of raising the issue of impeachment is it something you would advise candidates to talk about head on. Absolutely not. We should not be testing the waters one way or the other at this point. Lets let the facts unfold in light of the Mueller Investigation. What both parties can do to serve the cause of justice is to make sure that bob mueller completes his investigation. If at the end of the investigation he says theres no culpability on the part of the president , sob it. However, if he reaches an opposite conclusion, we have to take it to the next step. Senator, its sam stein here. On this show a little while ago i asked you if the senate should delay the Brett Kavanaugh consideration until after mueller produces his report. At the time you did not say yes or no. You just didnt answer. Im wonder if the past week has changed your calculation. Do you feel now that kavanaughs confirmation, consideration should not happen before the Mueller Report is dropped . I do. I do feel that way for the reasons i mentioned earlier. This is a swing vote on the highest court of the land, a lifetime appointment. It will affect decisions when it comes to a womans right to choose, when it comes to the preexisting conditions of families being used against them in health insurance. It will be decided by this Supreme Court nominee. If theres after time when we should at least pause before we jump, this is the time. Senator durbin, ive heard some democrats and liberal thought leaders say they believe this president over this last week has lost a lot of legitimacy and therefore his nominees are illegitimate. So if Brett Kavanaugh is senate confers legitimacy. Is that how you see it or do you think these liberal thought leaders and fellow democrats have a point . I see it the same way. Im a minority in the senate. We are at the mercy of Mitch Mcconnell and the republican majority and there has been an abundant amount of silence from the republicans since last tuesday, an indication that they are afraid of this issue. They dont want to touch this president for fear hell explode in their face and they are afraid to go back home and face their loyal republican primary voters and tell them what most of the people in america think that this situation is dreadful. I want to return to the impeachment question. With Michael Cohens admission of guilt, donald trump has basically been hes now an unindicted coconspirator in terms of a felony. Why are we waiting for the Mueller Investigation . Hes already in some interesting sort of way implicated in a crime. So cant we walk and chew gum at the same time . Cant we have candidates talk about Payment Impeachment as wet forward a agenda thats consistent with the Democratic Party. Cant we do both as opposed to one or the other . Off the top of my head i cant think of a more serious power in the constitution than the power of congress to remove a president. We should take it as seriously as it is written. This is something that has not been done in the history of the United States. I expect the American People think that were going take our time and do this responsibly. Let us not rush to any conclusion until this investigation is completed. Senator, lets take a step back to the nixon days. We talked a lot on this show his core republicans were with him until the very end and then it tipped. What would you think would be the current day version of what it would take for that same Tipping Point as far as republicans and the current president . Well, if youll remember, if i remember, and if you do as well, that was after the Supreme Court required the disclosure of the tapes. I believe at that moment there was a question whether or not there were 67 votes to impeach the president. Several republican senators i believe they included Barry Goldwater went to president nixon and said to him no we cant guarantee you 33 or 34 republicans will stand by you and at that point president nixon decided hell leave. Were a long way from that moment if we ever reach it. I wouldnt predict at this moment one way or the other. Senator dick durbin, thank you for being on the show this morning. Up next, new york investigators push forward with an investigation thats out of the reach of the president s pardoning power. That is bad news for him and his adult children. Morning joe is coming right back. Its time for the biggest sale of the year entyvio® may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. Pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal Brain Infection caused by a virus may be possible. Tell your doctor if you have an Infection Experience frequent infections or have flulike symptoms, or sores. Liver problems can occur with entyvio®. If your uc or crohns treatment isnt working for you, ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio®. Entyvio®. Relief and remission within reach. Mom okay we need to get all your School Supplies today. School. Grade. Done. Done. Hit the Snooze Button and get low prices on School Supplies all summer long. Like these for only 2 or less at office depot officemax. Investigation into the Trump Foundation. It comes after cohens attorney claimed his client had information that federal and state investigators would like to know. The Attorney General of new york is currently suing the Trump Foundation claiming donald trump illegally used his foundation to settle legal disputes, help his campaign for president , and pay for personal and business expenses. When the lawsuit was announced in june the president vowed not to settle the case. The current investigation is being conducted by new yorks tax department, and could be referred to the Attorney General for prosecution. Its important to note that the president does not have the power to pardon in state cases. Joining us now, Investigative Reporter for the Washington Post and msnbc contributor, david fahrenthold. You have new reporting on Michael Cohen, using the president s secrets as leverage including personally calling the new York Tax Department to see how he could help their probe into Trump Foundation. Whats he doing here. Is this ultimately trying to save himself in some way . A good question. I think right now immediately hes trying to raise his profile as somebody who knows a lot about donald trump because Michael Cohen has a go fun me set up to get people to contribute to his legal expenses. Hes trying to demonstrate his value to a variety of legal probes not just to the investigators but also to the public. Thats part of this. But also, actually, the thing about Michael Cohen, donald trump had blurred the lines between his company and his family, his company and his charities, his company and his campaign. Michael cohen played this unusual role where he was on either side of those blurred lines. He had a little piece of the trump empire as it comingled. Michael cohen didnt have a formal role in the Trump Foundation but its possible knees how it worked. Ill tell you exactly what Michael Cohen is thinking, and what hes going to be doing. I spoke to michael again yesterday. Its been reported that michael after the Putin Press Conference in helsinki put him over the edge. Now he was moving in that direction. I remember speaking to him right afterwards. This is genuine. I know ive been getting there. But seeing this, somethings got to be done for our country. Obviously hell do things to protect himself. But hes pissed. As far as the foundation goes, he knows all. As far as the meeting with the russian collusion at the hotel, he knows all. So beyond doing whats right for him and his family, he does have it this is a guy who spent think about it. You spend your life working for somebody defending somebody and that very person you worked for not only has turned on you but youve really seen light. This is the guy i was working for . Is this guy i was putting my entire life and entire trust behind . So hes not only doing things now to protect himself im telling you theres a sense of right and wrong and sometimes you got to hit your nose against the wall. But that is whats going on there. Donnie, there was an amazing snippet in the Wall Street Journal article about this last night. And i i want to know if you can add to it. But essentially, what it says, it was one of the compelling reasons that Michael Cohen decided to take the path that hes currently on was a conversation he had with his father, who was a holocaust survivor. His father essentially said to him, i didnt survive the holocaust to have donald trump selling my name. It was a compelling moment, a rare look at the family drama that Michael Cohen is dealing with. Can you talk about that father relationship and what that meant to him in this moment . He didnt tell me about the father discussion. But i will tell you about a conversation i had with him regarding his dad being a holocaust survivor. When Michael First got arrested, the amount of texts and tweets he got, youre the guy standing as theyre putting jews in the oven. Your dad is a holocaust survivor. Youre standing by. And that shook him to his core. Hes like, wait a minute, my dad is a holocaust survivor. Obviously hes a bridge along the way, but when he started getting the texts im sorry, this was after charlottesville where at this point still he hadnt turned yet and it was like youre standing by and allowing this to happen. Hes like, i am not standing by. I am so offended. I am so shaken to my core. So these were all pieces of the puzzle and, you know, if that conversation did happen with his father, because i know as far as his family and his children and all of us, this gets to our core. It very well might have. But i have a problem with Someone Wrapping themselves in the holocaust to not, he was not lobbying the president and the press to pay his legal bills, threatening to at all Talk To Mueller youre not hearing what im saying is that as a jew and i have questions about that. Hes not wrapping himself in the holocaust. As a jew and as a man, when charlottesville happen and basically people were attacking michael and just, wait a second, how can you stand by and let this he was deeply, deeply moved and offended as anybody would be. Its not a matter of irrelevant. I think the problem, donnie, and i want to get back to the reporting, the problem is that what has been revealed in the past few days, to Michael Cohen himself saying, pleading guilty to breaking the law repeatedly, to breaking the law for the president , so for him to, you know, all of a sudden see the light, it just is a little farfetched, i think . Well, we look through history of people who have done wrong and theyve paid the price and you do see the light. I do think he see tess world but my point is, he knew all along that the president was crooked because he broke the law for him. Why does he need to watch helsinki happen . You can just look at the Financial Transactions for porn stars. Like a lot of people, theyll go, okay, the this is wrong, yeah, were paying this woman off and that happens all the time versus a president putting our world and our country at risk with a foreign there are differences. We do have to draw distinctions between levels of wrong versus saying everything is wrong. Thats just reality. And if i spoke to people out there, the average voter, the average person says is there a difference between trump the paying off a porn star and trump being in bed with putin so visibly . I think 90 of people would distinguish between those two, although theyre both wrong. David, you have been reporting that Michael Cohen was very concerned because his wife has joint filings with him. Tell us more about that as well as any potential ties to russia. Well, i think youve seen lanny davis, Michael Cohens attorney talk in vague terms about the things Michael Cohen might know related to the Trump Campaign and russia. We dont quite know what that is yet. I havent seen lanny davis specify what cohen knows. Cohen was in a bind, beyond whatever moral things he might have been wrestling with. There was an immediate legal problem which is that the new York Attorney general had gone after a taxi king of jshg, a guy who was in a taxi business with cohen. Cohen may have felt the threat there. Certainly he felt the threat from federal prosecutors putting him under a lot of pressure in the last few months, both pressure on his wife and pressure on him. So i think he may have felt legally like this was a time when he may have had to cut his losses. He may not have seen a way out of this legally other than to plead guilty and affect some other investigations. David, thank you for your reporting. Still ahead, the president was up until after 1 00 this morning the at the very least tweeting. More on the legal pressure thats keeping him up night ahead. Mrus, well dig into the new issue of Time Magazine. Bob mueller closer in. Morning joe is coming right back. So i give myself an a plus. I dont think any president has ever done what ive done in this short we havent even been two years, the biggest tax cuts in history, soon to be two unbelievable Supreme Court justices, im sure that Justice Kavanaugh will be approved. Justice gorsuch has been a star. You look at all of the things weve done with regulations, the economy is the best its ever been in history. The only thing im doing badly in is the press doesnt cover me fairley. Simparica is what kills tick and fleas, like us. Kills . Kills studies show at the end of the month, it kills more ticks in less time than frontline plus and nexgard. Guess we should mosey on. See ya never, roxy use simparica with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. The most common side effects are vomiting, diarrhea, and lethargy. Say goodbye to ticks and fleas. With monthly simparica chewables. On the new sleep number 360 smart bed. It senses your movement and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. And now, all beds are on sale. Save 50 on the new sleep number 360 limited Edition Smart bed. Plus, free home delivery. Ends saturday. Applebees to go. Order online and get 5 off 25. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. I saw my leg did not look right. I landed. I was just finishing a ride. I felt this awful pain in my chest. I had a pe blood clot in my lung. I was scared. I had a dvt blood clot. Having one really puts you in danger of having another. My doctor and i chose xarelto®. Xarelto®. To help keep me protected. Xarelto® is a latestgeneration blood thinner thats. Proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt or pe blood clots from happening again. In clinical studies, almost 98 of patients on xarelto® did not experience another dvt or pe. Xarelto® works differently. Warfarin interferes with at least 6 of your bodys natural bloodclotting factors. Xarelto® is selective, targeting just one critical factor. Dont stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase risk of blood clots. While taking, you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. Xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. It may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. Get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. Do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. Before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. Learn all you can. To help protect yourself from another dvt or pe. Talk to your doctor about xarelto®. Do you have any reaction to the cohen man afort news from yesterday . Do you think that its concerning at all . Do you think it will affect the midterms . You still support mueller, right . Well, granted, Mitch Mcconnell doesnt often answer questions on the go, but his silence and the silence of House Speaker paul ryan hang heavy in the air. What will republicans do if the president makes a move against the special counsel . 59 of americans now back the Mueller Probe and that number is growing. Another number on the rise, the percentage of people who think there is a strong chance the president of the United States committed a criminal or Impeachable Offense. And that polling is from fox news. Good morning and welcome to morning joe. It is thursday, august 23rd. Joe has the morning off. Hell be back tomorrow. We have Donnie Deutsch with us along with professor at Princeton University eddie junior and contributing editor of the Weekly Standard john pedoritz, sam stein, washington anchor for bbc world news america patti kay and editor in chief of law fair and msnbc legal analyst benjamin willis. We begin with the very latest in President Trumps former lawyer implicating him in his guilty plea yesterday. Trump appeared to acknowledge his attorneys Campaign Finance violation. And walked it back in an interview all while maintaining its not a crime. He blamed Attorney General Jeff Sessions for his former lawyers prosecution. The president tweeted Michael Cohen pled guilty to two counts of Campaign Finance violations that are not a crime. So then President Obama had a big Campaign Finance violation and it was easily settled. Yes, he talked about that. Trump was referring to a late filing on small dollar donations by the Obama Campaign which resulted in a large fine given the scale of the operation, but is different than knowingly concealing Campaign Spending as pleaded to by cohen. En. Which is routinely prosecuted in Criminal Court as with the fraud case against john edwards under the Obama Justice department. Speaking, of course, to fox news thats where i told you hes go President Trump said it had nothing to do with who is leading doj. It has everything to do the with it. My first question when i heard about it was did it come out of the campaign . Because that could be dicey. But thats not even a campaign violation. If you look at President Obama, he had a Massive Campaign violation. But he had a different Attorney General and they viewed it a lot differently. Ben, try to make sense of all the things that hes piling on to this answer here. Can you make a parallel between violations, the one that hes talking about and the Obama Administration and the payoff to a porn star and a play boy bunny made right before the election was going into full form . Well, to ask that question that way is the answer to it. So, look, the part of what the president says, the only part thats true, is that it is the case that normal Campaign Finance violations are handed routinely by the federal Election Commission as a civil matter. And theres a system like with any regulatory system of penalties and fines and those are handled as routine matters and dont invoke criminal offenses. When you engage in an elaborate scheme on the other hand to circumvent those regulatory requirements by hiding things, by paying people hush money, by not then reporting those Hush Money Payments as campaign contributions, youre going to invoke criminal authorities or at least you may. And that is the difference between the what he calls massive Campaign Finance problems that the obama administrators and campaign had which was some technical filing errors for which they paid a fine and a scheme to get your personal lawyer to get tabloids or other entities to pay off former mistresses or paramours before the election to keep them quiet. Theres no comparison to be drawn there. Theres none. Its flabbergasting. The entire interview, for many reasons, is actually staggering at this point. And the fact that he thinks he can push things along by mushing the truth into complete dribble, actually. He doesnt even make sense at times. Donnie, ive been thinking all day yesterday about Michael Cohen and all the witches that so far have been, you know, brought in by mueller, pled guilty or indicted. And i just if you look at what Michael Cohen has pled guilty to, how stupid do these people how stupid are these people . Dont they know what is going to happen if they have committed these crimes, if theyre pleading guilty to these actions, how did the they not know that they wouldnt be hauled in at this point . And the next question will be how stupid are republicans at this point to still stand by this president to stand by all of this and say nothing . Look, we dont even have enough room on the screen, pleading guilty, pleading guilty, pleading guilty. How stupid are these people to think that it wouldnt end like this . Lets unpack the stupid suitcase because theres a lot of living in there. Starting with trump well, its Michael Cohen im really ill get to cohen in a second. Youre friends with him. Im going to step back and get into cohen. What is amazing about that trump interview is when i first found out about this, did this come from Campaign Like there is not a tape that exists of him directing Michael Cohen to say, do it in cash. Like when he just found out about it. Like that doesnt exist. That audio doesnt exist. We havent heard it. Thats whats astounding. As far as cohen, you know, cohen was an attorney working for trump. And, you know, youre directed by your boss and its not im not using the nuremberg explanation. But i dont think at that point youre saying to yourself, should i do this, should i not do this, youre a lawyer, youre working for and he has stood up and he is facing the consequences. I think im going to stay with the stupid place in the case of trump and the republicans and that very brave gentleman Mitch Mcconnell, who you are the leader of the Republican Party, okay . You are the face, other than after the president , you are it. You know, you go down that totem pole and there it is. And the president s personal attorney has pleaded guilty to taking directions violating a felonius law and you have no comment. You have no comment. And, john, i dont were going to stay in kind of the stupid universe. What does Mitch Mcconnell think when he thinks people are watching . I think what he thinks is theyre in hell. Their whole hope is just that they are productive enough and serve the interests of enough voters that they can spare themselves disaster in november. The timeline is very short here for them. Its from here until the november elections. Tailwinds are looking very bad for them. If they can just focus on their work, ignore trump, get judges, get Brett Kavanaugh confirmed, paul ryan then gets to retire, Mitch Mcconnell can say i did all this. I have nothing to do with this guy. So he doesnt want to talk about it because there is nothing in it for him in terms of this timeline from now until november to say a single word about trump, about cohen, about manafort, about mueller. He is in a lockbox. Anything he says is a disaster. If he says i no longer support trump, the Republican Base turns on him. If he says i support trump, he sells his soul. His wife is in the cabinet. Its not good. So he just keeps his mouth shut. Michael, mika, let me ask a stupid question since were on the stupid line to johns point about lets do Business As Usual. The reality in going to that fox poll is that basically and this is the Signature Work of the Trump Administration so far has been the tax plan. That is 11 less popular than the Signature Work of the Obama Administration which is, of course, obama care. You take the Enthusiasm Polls, you take optimism for the next generation which is down 11 points. Thats already going in the right direction. You take the president on the water and you take other than the core republicans, nobody else thinks the economy is going in the right direction. So its hard for them to run on Business As Usual at this point. Look, its weve got so much more to cover and so much more to get to. But i will say it is flabbergasting how stupid Michael Cohen and the other witches are that we have covered in this witchhunt which ill use the president s word. I dont get the Republican Party at this point because theyre leaders and its about right and wrong. Its about the fabric of this country. Theyre fought leaders. Its about truth. And theyre not leaders and theyre letting americans down. We move on. I want to get patti, sam, pen gentleman minute back in. You will notice that President Trump has changed his original explanation for when he knew about Michael Cohen arranging for payments to women. Did you know about the 130,000 payments for Stormy Daniels . Then why did Michael Cohen say this if there was no allegations . Youd have to ask Michael Cohen. Michael is my attorney and youll have to ask michael. Do you know where he got the money to make that payment . No, i dont know. Did you know about the payments . Later on i knew. Later on. Is he lying here . Yeah. Again, the president just lies. Michael cohen has a tape from 2016 which the president has tweeted about indicating its authenticity of the two of them discussing at least one of the payments. I need to open up a can company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend, david, so that im going to do that right away. Ive spoke ton allen about how to set the whole thing up with so what are we going to do . Funding. Yes. And its all the stuff thinking about that. All the stuff you never know where that company is going be. Correct. So im all over that. And i spoke to allen about it. When it comes time for the financing, which will be well so to pay no, no, no. I got it. As you just heard, the president has an explanation for the payment that he thinks makes everything okay. But you have to understand, what he did and they werent taken out of Campaign Finance. Thats the big thing. That is a much bigger thing. Did they come out of the campaign. They came from me and i tweeted about it. I dont know if you know, but i tweeted about the payments. Lying again. Experts say that claim Doesnt Work Out, either, as vox writes, you cant evade Campaign Rules by paying for your Campaign Finance funds. It was during a campaign and it was to protect his campaign from knowing about his affairs with multiple women not wanting his wife to find out, not wanting americans to find out so he could win the presidency. How stupid lets stay on theme here. How stupid does the president think the American People are . Well, theres so much to impact, theres so many levels of stupidity, i guess. One is what weve hit on which is that he is admitting to the Campaign Finance crime, essentially. Correct. What he wanted to say was we tried we meant to disclose it in the proper fashion. But, instead, he copped to doing it in the illegal form. Secondly, of course, is the whole issue of the fact that hes on Tape Recording admitting to knowing about the payment and now says he only knew about it after the fact. Hes asking us to believe up is down, that the sky is green, whatever. Im struck by the weird and he said i tweeted about it, as if that absolves him of something. I have no idea what hes talking about. Who cares . It doesnt matter. But i keep coming back to this one thing that is nagging me, which is that we have basically just taken it as, you know, a given and not at all the an extraordinary thing that he had an affair on his wife with a 5monthold kid and paid hush money to cover it up. This would have been an extraordinary scandal especially with someone with the devoted support of the ee advantage gel can community. But at this juncture, were like, he did that and lets talk about the finance crime element of it. It just seems crazy that were losing the moral element of it, not that i am a moral warrior, but he has a huge evangelical following which would have gone to the mat over this. What did the president know and when did he know it . That old expression has new legs this morning as the white house offers conflicting accounts surrounding Donald Trumps knowledge of payments to women. Well talk about that. But first, here is bill carin w karins with a check on the forecast. We have a hurricane thats 200 miles away, hurricane lane. Its produced overnight a foot of rain on the big island of hawaii. Already a foot. Theres already a highway closed and theres water over the top of a bridge. Here is the storm. Its about 130 miles per hour. Im not concerned with the winds. I really never was. I never thought we would have a lot of wind destruction through the hawaiian islands. This is all about rainfall. Because the path of the storm is very slow, it did weaken and it will bring gusty winds, maybe small power outages, stuff like that. But as far as the rain goes, the whole right side rain shield goes over the big island, over m maui and continues into saturday. So i mentioned some areas here picked up 12 inches of rain. We were looking at widespread 10 to 20 inches. They have three days to go in some of those spots in hawaii. They had already picked up a foot. Theyre going to end up with maybe three feet. Who knows. Maybe somewhere in the mountainous areas, close to four feet of rain. You can picture what the major historic flooding, mud and rock slides. Theres not a lot of problems throughout the lower 48. Isolated storms in south florida. This is a beautiful start to your day from the northeast all the way through the great lakes and that trend will continue. Be careful in the central plains. We are going to pop some thunderstorms this afternoon with some strong gusty winds, especially in kansas and nebraska. So all eyes will be on hawaii over the next three days to see how destructive lane will be. Likely a 1 billion weather disaster. New york city, all our friends on the east coast, enjoy your beautiful morning. Low humidity for once. Youre watching morning joe. Lets begin. Yes or no . Do you want the same tools and seamless experience across web and tablet . Do you want 4. 95 commissions for stocks, 0. 50 options contracts . 1. 50 futures contracts . What about a dedicated service team of trading specialists . Did you say yes . Good, then its time for power e trade. The platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. Looks like we have a couple seconds left. Lets do some card twirling twirling cards e trade. The original place to invest online. Are you one sneeze away from being voted out of the carpool . Try zyrtec®. Its starts working hard at hour one. And works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. Stick with zyrtec® and muddle no more®. So you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24 7 tech support. Yep, thanks guys. I think he might need some support. Yes. Start them off right, with the School Supplies they need at low prices all summer long. Like these for only 2 or less at office depot officemax. Like these for only 2 or less comdeeper than the oceanrld as unfathomable as the universe a world that doesnt exist outside you, but within you where breakthrough science is replacing chemotherapy with immunotherapy where we can now attack the causes of disease not just the symptoms. Where medicines once produced for all, are now designed to fit you. Today, 140,000 biopharmaceutical researchers go boldly to discover treatments and cures unimaginable ten years ago and theyre on the verge of more tomorrow. Including hard copy documents seized Electronic Devices and audio recordings made by mr. Cohen. Along with text messages, messages sent over encrypted applications, phone records and emails. She said they would submit various records produced by a subpoena including records from the Shell Corporation cohen formed and records from the media company. This as the Wall Street Journal reports that david becker, the chairman of the American Media incorporated which publish tess National Enquirer provided prosecutors with details about payments mr. Cohen arranged with others including mr. Trumps knowledge of the deals. The journal report which cited people close to cohen posted late last night. It preseded a twoeet from the president. This came at 1 10 a. M. No collusion, rigged witchhunt. Catty kay, something keeping him up at night . Yeah, it looks like it. It is not very usual for the president to be up at 1 00 tweeting. Clearly hes not sleeping very well and thats not surprising because there are legal and there are political implications for him with this one. The legal implications all around the issue of Campaign Finance whether as the Wall Street Journal reports seems to be hinting is it just the two women that we know about, Karen Mcdougall and Stormy Daniels or are there other women and in that case do we get into the realm of racketeering with multiple payoffs potentially to try and stop damaging stories against him. And then the political one and thats whats interesting interesting at the moment, the question of whether this 87 of the Republican Party and sam was alluding to the evangelical base earlier, whether any of them will shift their minds when it comes to the president because of what theyve heard over the course of the last 24 hours and what else is going to come out from Michael Cohen. Our initial reporting, the number of Trump Supporters that weve spoken to suggests they are still rock solid behind the president. We spoke to one woman who says everybody commits some kind of Finance Crimes. We said, well, you know, this is the president of the United States. Her response was, oh, that just makes him human. There is no point to which well, he is super human, thats for sure. Were going to have to watch those numbers and see whether those numbers decline because of this. Come up on morning joe, the white house is increasingly focused not on good versus bad policy, but rather what exactly is legal versus illegal. Questions of criminality now dominate the National Conversation all the way up to the president himself. That is next on morning joe. Its time for the biggest sale of the year on the new sleep number 360 smart bed. It senses your movement and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. And now, all beds are on sale. Save 50 on the new sleep number 360 limited Edition Smart bed. Plus, free home delivery. Ends saturday. Moderate to severe Rheumatoid Arthritis was intense. My moms pain from i wondered if she could do the stuff she does for us which is kinda, a lot. And if that pain could mean something worse. Joint pain could mean joint damage. Enbrel helps relieve joint pain, and helps stop further damage enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. Serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma other cancers, nervous system and Blood Disorders and allergic reactions have occurred. Tell your doctor if youve been someplace where fungal infections are common. Or if youre prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for Heart Failure or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding or paleness. Dont start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. Since enbrel, my moms back to being my mom. Visit enbrel. Com. And use the joint damage simulator to see how joint damage could progress. Ask about enbrel. Enbrel. Fda approved for over 18 years. He makes a better deal when he uses me, like everybody else. And one of the reasons i respect Paul Manafort so much is he went through that trial you know, they make up stories. People make up stories. This whole thing about flipping, they call it, i know all about flipping for 30, 40 years ive been watching flippers. Everything is wonderful and then they get ten years in jail and then they flip on whoever the next highest one is or as high as you can go. It almost ought to be outlawed. Its not fair. Because if somebody is going to spend five years, like Michael Cohen or 15 years in jail because of a taxi cab industry because he defraut fraudded som Campaign Violations are considered not a big deal, frankly. But if somebody defrauded a bank and hes going to get 10 years in jail or 20 years in jail, but if you can Say Something bad about donald trump and youll go down to two years or three years, which is the deal he made, in all fairness to him, most people are going to do that. And ive seen it many times. Ive had many friends involved in this stuff. The former head of the Trump Campaign was convicted on tuesday of bank and tax fraud as well as failing to disclose foreign bank accounts. The president spent part of the day yesterday railing against the outcome of manaforts trial and the jury being unable to reach a verdict on ten of the other counts against him. He wrote on twitter, a large number of counts, ten, could not even be decided in the Paul Manafort case. Witchhunt. But we now know that a single juror held out on convicting manafort on all 18 charges. Trump added, i feel very badly for Paul Manafort and his wonderful family. Justice took a 12yearold tax case, among other things, applied tremendous pressure on him and unlike cohen, he refused to break, make up stories in order to get a deal. Such respect for a brave man. Following the president s tweets, the white house disputed that he was planning on Pardoning Manafort. The manafort case doesnt have anything to do with the president , doesnt have anything to do with his campaign, it doesnt have anything to do with his white house. Even if it has nothing to do with the president , he still could have the power to pardon mr. Manafort. Is that something hes discussing with the team, has it come up and im not aware of any conversations regarding that at all. Other than actually when he was asked by a news outlet jerl this we earlier this week and he said he hadnt been thinking about that at all. One of the more useless moments of the day would be the White House Press briefing every single day. So john pedorance, the xes except of potentially outlawing manafort. He is, as the head of the executive branch, the highest Criminal Justice officer in the United States. One of the keys ways in which you uncover a criminal conspiratorial action to put pressure and give up other people who were involved in that conspiracy should be outlawed. Lets think about that for a minute. Thats number one. Number two is what hes doing to manafort, people are always analyzing things to the godfather. But theres this moment where frankie is going to testify against the corleoni family and they go and get his brother from sicily to sit in the courtroom to shame him into not testifying because that would be dishonorable. This is trump saying to manafort, dont break. Dont break. Dont flip. I respect you. Youre wonderful. What a great guy. Love your family. Dont break. And i guess in there is the hint that he might pardon him. What i find amazing about trump, mr. Strength and mr. Bravery, he would be the first human being in history to flip to save himself. I actually believe he would send his children to jail before he would go to jail. I think hes that depraved and that empty of any moral accepts. I love that he sits there and talks about the weakness and the breaking point. Stunning. Coming up on morning joe, Time Magazine portrays the president s position with two words. In deep. Well look through the new issue straight ahead on morning joe. I think he might need some support. Yes. Start them off right, with the School Supplies they need at low prices all summer long. Like these for only 2 or less at office depot officemax. There is no good whats happening. Well see it through. I cant imagine people who are familiar with whats been going on at the white house are particularly surprised. Ive been here 11 1 2 years. And this is i dont think ive witnessed anything like ive witnessed over the last year and a half. Probably the American People havent in modern times. Its not a good day for the president. I mean, youve got an accusation about his former lawyer that he did conspire to violate Campaign Finance laws. I know the intricacies of Campaign Finance laws. But, again, the whole mueller thing was started on concerns about the Trump Campaign and russia. Thats what im focused on and lets see what mueller tells us. Some of the rank and File Republican senators with their reaction yesterday to tuesdays manafort and cohen developments. In stark contrast to the silence from Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell and House Speaker paul ryan. And this take from House Majority leader Kevin Mccarthy. Lets remember what did the department of justice Justice Department say about cohen yesterday . He is somehow that has a pattern of lies and disbelief for dishonesty for extended period of time. In my point of view, the whole investigation was about russia collusion. This has nothing to do with it. So the president , i see nothing wrong in the extent of where hes going right now. Wow. Wow. Kevin, wow. Dont you know how what is that . How does he not know where this is going and how this could end so very badly . Take a stand, dude. Donnie, eddie and noah are still with us joining the conversation we have commentary writer for the washington competitorer tom rogen, author and founder for women for Women International zainab and brian bennet Time Magazine writer. Closing in, the president s woes grow as top aides face justice. Well get to that in just a second. But who wants to chime in . Raise your hand. Kevin mccarthys comments just seem beyond painful. Tom. I think the interesting thing here is that obviously he is trying to be the House Speaker. So you have republicans on one side who see their political future vested still with President Trump who can get out those voters, as they would perceive it. On the secondary side, though, more xherning for the president is when you have people like Lindsey Graham who have been, at least on Foreign Policy issues, pretty sympathetic to the president now taking that tenor to the side that this is not good, that this is a perhaps a new moment. There is a division in the Republican Party that at some point regardless of what happens with the president , and ultimately we do not know. We still do not know what will happen will have to be melded together again or the party will split. So we will see. Its very interesting. I think youre precisely correct and its worth noting the venue where these comments were made, the audience to which these comments were directed, democrats have frustrated their liberal base by shying away from impeachment. We cant do this yet. We have to wait for the investigation to go through. Impeachment shouldnt be on the table until we have all the facts. Thats the correct strategy. It is. But it would not be possible if democrats had a comparable Entertainment Complex like the republicans do, like conservatives do. They have an Entertainment Complex that has more authority than any republican representative in congress and that is who theyre appealing to. It seems to me that, you know, the state of the country is such that we cannot play it safe, that the Democratic Party, of course, has to make its political calculations, but it seems to me as they play it safe, theyre going to play it dangerously. Let me just make the point, though, it seems to me that if donald trump has, in fact, committed a felony, and if that fact alone, before the russian before the Mueller Investigation was completed, if he has committed a felony, then, to my mind, that rises to the correct. But the messaging that is they need to win the house first. And you can make that claim as well as making the but the focus message is, yes, there is a corrupt climate and theyre going to take your Health Care Away from you and they might take a womans body rights away from you and there is this culture that our democracy is in play, but its how it affects you. Impeachment is an abstract political term that for the guy going to work look, nobody wants that to happen more than me. But as a strategist, it is not the correct play now. Mika. Zainab, jump in. Im saying we have to do the right thing, not the safe thing. The right thing to do is have the due process work its way out. If we do the safe thing and we rush into conclusion, it will back fire on the Democratic Party also. Whoever party wins is the American People at the question in the moment and we need to do the right thing by the American People. For me, the question, its for someone who attacks truth so much, we need to own truth. And we need to make truth great again. We need to tell the truth and we need modeling, someone to tell the truth out loud and full rounded truth. But the challenge we face, ultimately, if were pueratriot the sense that ultimately truth is perceived subjectively. Truth is truth. But it is perceived subjectively. And if we do this the wrong way tell rudy julie a annie that. No, no, i am saying truth is truth. But the perception matters. If this is done without due process, you lose those Trump Supporters who were a political constituency of let me be very clear. Im not making an argument to rush to judgment. Im making this argument, that if donald trump has committed a felony, that if its the case that donald trump has colluded with the russians, then democrats in this midterm can walk and chew gum at the same time. They can say this particular president and the Republican Party has tried to theyre trying to take away your health care. Theyre cutting taxes for the rich. You can make that argument and you can say on behalf of the country that our democracy is in jeopardy. Donnie, you said on this show over and over again, this is the vote of your lifetime. That cannot be reduced to selfinterest. We have to think beyond otherwi ourselves. This is their job. Tom, you helped work on the latest opinion piece by the Washington Examiner entitled character still counts. Trump lies down with dogs and gets up with fleas. He must be very itchy this morning. It reads in part this, donald trump repeatedly burrowed himself into the world of pornography for extra marital sex and then he had his unethical grifter lawyer cover up for it. Together with the recent conviction of Trump Campaign manager Paul Manafort and the guilty plea by deputy Campaign Manager rick gates, theres a clear pattern that stands regardless of any future legal findings donald trump laid down with dogs and has gotten fleas. Manafort, gates, cohen, Stormy Daniels and Karen Mcdougall, trump knew who they all were when he got into bed with them figuratively or literally. Tom, continue. Yes. I cant take credit for that elegant writing. I think the functional point that we are making here is that if you want the chief Chief Executive of the United States, you have to do two things. Hold yourself to the highest levels of integrity. And secondly, you should make basic political choices about who you align yourself with in the moral sense that if you go into bed, as we say, with these people, what do you expect is going to happen . I mean, with Paul Manafort, we knew that he was engaged basically with ukrainian organized crime figures for a long time. Those are not people that the you want to be aligned with. Im curious about the christian right, actually, which the president is appealing for them. Hes doing all the things that are morally appalling. Were talking about porn stars, playboy models. Where is their position on that . I think their position, is he lirchlly, is look at the Supreme Court appointments in terms of look at policies on things like abortion, that they value. Theres a yale professor coming out and talking about fa ficism. People see very much not corruption of the law, which obviously trump is doing, but corruption of traditional norms. For instance, when trump covers up that he slept with a woman, that is protecting the male as the dominant figure so that theyre able to see noncorrupt by if you are holding on to traditional norms versus corrupting the law. Theres a corruption i know a couple of evangelicals. I understand their thinking when they say a all these behavioral, you know, problems that donald trump exhibits are subordinated to the fact that the other guys are the vanguard of cultural liberalism, that they will pursue policies, they will the degrade american morality far more so than donald trump has insofar as they will pursue it as policy. That to me is motivated reasoning, but at least its a thought process you can get your head around. So morality has no role in this . No, morality has everything to do with it. Its the other guys are more moral than our guys. What if its the case that im sorry. Its all right. Brian bennet, senior White House Correspondent for Time Magazine, take us inside the cover. So tuesday was not just a bad news cycle for the president. It was a super nova of bad news, not only did you have his former Campaign Chairman, paul manafort, being convicted on eight counts, obviously you had Michael Cohen. And we wanted to try to capture that in this cover image. And Michael Cohen, what is interesting about him is not only what he pled guilty to on tuesday and said the president directed him to do in the campaign law violations, but its what happens over the next few months. So between now and december 12th, when Michael Cohen will stand before a judge for a sentencing, every prosecutor working on a case that remotely touches something that Michael Cohen might know about, something that donald trump may have been involved in, is going to come to Michael Cohen and say, what do you know about this and how can you help us. And thats what provides us with a tremendous liability for President Trump. Great sense of whats on the cover of Time Magazine and whats in the magazine. This is the latest in a series of stormy covers, all surrounding President Trump and his stormy relationships and relationships with women, payoffs to women, and ultimately possibly high crimes and misdemeanors. Brian bennet, thank you very much. Tom roguenan, final thoughts. Well, look, this is a Pivotal Moment for the United States in terms of both the future of this presidency, but also very much the future of politics as it is. The Democratic Base obviously divided on issues, but the Republican Base. That Kevin Mccarthy division with Lindsey Graham. I think thats what we look for. Thats the defining factor to see how congress now responds and what mueller brings out next. All right. Zainab, donny, stay with us. Well be right back. Its, like, a social experiment. Its kind of sad. Some people just stay to their race and its not because theyre making a conscience decision im not going to talk to him because hes caucasian. They dont try with someone who cant relate to you. Theres one table where its all white kids. And theres a table where theres all black kids. First day wont sit by you theres a table where its black and white kids, random like that. Wow. Looks amazing. Steve james joins us now. And eddie has the first question. I had an opportunity to take a look at the First Episode of your documentary and its very powerful. What we do know is there is a deep divide in the country. Were separated in our intimate spaces. That we dont live our intimate lives together outside of work and the like. And we see these tensions evidenced at the school. Give me a sense of what you learned over the course of filming. All of these tensions out in the open. Because it felt like everyone was trying to navigate and negotiate what seemed to be a rather forced environment. Well, i mean, oak park as a community is incredibly diverse and liberal place, right . And so, you know, its tough there because people say all the right things in very public ways. But in their lived experiences, it is a lot harder, like you say. So there is a lot more separation within the school. Because in the tracking, you know, you have the upper level, honors and ap classes that are overwhelmingly white. You have lower level classes that are overwhelmingly black. So the lived experience within the school doesnt promote the kind of genuine connection youd want. In a Community Like oak park where white families dominate and its 55 white families, then, you know, they really are the center of the community in terms of deciding what happens around issues involving equity. Interesting. Whats how do you think President Trumps divisive policies being impacted in schools and particularly in schools in your experience in shooting the movie . Divisive policies . Well go ahead, sorry. Go ahead. Divisive policies between black and white and race and gender and immigration and all of these things. Were in a divided world right out in. How are the kid experiencing it . How are they dealing with it . Well, think what you see with the kids were following in the series is theyre incredibly aware and sophisticated about the world were living in right now when it comes to issues like race and class and divisive policies. Its one of the reasons why i think theres such a tremendous swell of activism across the country and these are the kinds of kids that represent the future. Their lived experiences in places like oak park, i think we have a tendency to think that kids that live in a place like that have it made if theyre kids in color. One of the things i think the series really shows is that micro aggression and racism is so systemic that it seeps down deep into their lived lives both in the school and in the community. Its wonderful to kind of see visually the kind of structural differences that you allude to. But also the kind of ideological fissures. Around the black lives matter what do you call it, i havent been in school the mass meeting in the auditorium the assembly there we go. Lord, ive been at princeton too long. It isthe assembly that was only black students. Tell us about that. This happened right before the year we began filming. It caused a real fire storm, you know, in not just in the community, it actually went beyond that. Its because the principal, whos black, decided to organize an assembly for just the black students at oak park, to have frank conversations about their lived experience of race. And, you know, there are a lot of liberal parents in the community that felt like, hey, why are we being excluded . You know, were not going to solve this problem unless we come together. And kind of missed the point of why it was necessary for this assembly to happen. And then when you went on to social media and it went beyond oak park, you saw some incredibly vicious racist sort of responses in social media. I mean, 90 of them were pretty terrible i thought. Steve james, thank you so much. America to me premieres this sunday on starz. Final thoughts. Donny. The interesting news of the day was the fox interview. Trump has a new strategy against collusion. Which is well, maybe its wrong, but you cant impeach me because im so good for people and the stock market. That appeals to a lot of people i know outside of his base who is, like, i just care about my pocketbook. I know hes a bad guy but its a scary strategy. Noah rothman, doesnt it seem you can understand strategies, you can understand the base, you can understand politics, but arent we at a point where what we would like people to do in washington is lead and know the difference between right and wrong and be concerned about the direction of our country . Yes. The rationale is that i cant do whats good for the country if