Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20180404

That was the part that was slightly pretty. He also continued to lie about amazon. Apparently angry that the man who runs it also owns the Washington Post. Meanwhile just this morning china strikes back hard in a brewing trade war which the President Trump claimed would be easy to win. Yeah, but the future is looking very grim right now because you know what, trade wars lead to bad things happening. The Dow Jones Futures down almost 450 points. And its again, theres nothing easy about it. What is easy though is calling out the lies the president s lies and theres no other word for it. I know that journalists and headline writers have been trying to figure out exactly what to call what hes doing, but willie, lets talk about amazon for a second and john roberts and the good people over at fox news in the afternoon went through this yesterday, a lot of other reporters did too. But shepp really broke it down. Donald trump lying about amazon by saying that the post office is losing money. Well, as they pointed out over at fox news, actually the post office is gaining money from this. Secondly, donald trump lies and says that the taxpayers are having to foot the bill for this so called subsidy to amazon. Com. And smith points out, thats a lie. The post offices own material says thats a lie. That operations are not paid for by the taxpayers and finally, the one that, again, shows just how either how stupid the president of the United States or how stupid he believes we are is when he said that he what is it, that we lose 1. 47 on every package sent by amazon. Thats the standard rate for bulk shippers. Thats the standard rate. Look, ill be oprah. Thats the standard rate for you and you and you and you and you. Everybody that im looking at morning joe analyst. I see ibm and i see your business. Willie, thats everybodys rate. So here you have i mean, the u. S. Chamber of commerce is coming out saying stop attacking american businesses. I mean, here hes picking out one of the most innovative american businesses, a great employer, and and popular with the public by the way. And really popular with the public. So many of us do Christmas Shopping now, easter shopping, birthday, i mean, day in and day out shopping but the president , he is and i dare a hack on the internet thats a trump apoll gist who claims to be a conservative but to defend an american president acting like an autocrat, singling out a private Enterprise Business because he doesnt like the owner. I love his sudden interest in the u. S. Postal service. Hes so concerned. Why is he doing this . Its all personal as with everything with donald trump. Its all personal. He believes again if you want to take your lie and your falsehood thing another step further, he believes that because jeff bezos owns amazon he also somehow controls the Washington Post and amazon has to due with the Washington Post. The editor of the post came out yesterday and says thats undeniably untrue. And its because he doesnt like the coverage hes getting so hes attacking a popular business, a business that makes tons of money, a business that employs tons of people and its all based on complete falsehoods. And elise jordan in washington. We have Eugene Robinson and associate editor for the Washington Post as well. This amazon story again, i cant say it too much. The president goes into the white house yesterday and hes talking to reporters and everything hes saying is not wrong. Its a flatout lie. Look, its extraordinary and there are a couple of other points, but i think you guys covered it pretty well. First oaf all, if amazon were not paying enough to the post office the post office can raise their rates. Amazon doesnt decide what it pays to the post office. The post office decides what to charge amazon. Amazon is actually helping the post office because the post office is declining in first class mail. So their package business is their big business and one last point, the other thing going on in trumps mind i think from what you read and hear, his real estate buddies arent happy about amazon because of what its doing to retailers and malls and things like that and so you have a situation where trump is trying to help another constituent of his which is the real estate community. But again, hes trying to help by lying. Another area where he continues to lie and you just wonder, david, and again, its not shading the truth. Its just an out and out lie. He continues to say that nato has been filled with billions of dollars, that boy, the money is just pouring into nato. Again, hes either completely ignorant of the way nato has been run since the 1940s or else hes just lying. That was one of the hard parts of watching his performance with the three baltic president s who were visiting. These were people who. Reporter literally on the front lines dealing with russia, trump was boasting about how nobodys been tougher on russia than he has at the very time that he seems to be inviting Vladimir Putin to come visit him at the white house. And as you say, taking credit for natos successes at a time when he has seen generally as quite a divisive leader of this alliance. Yes, its true that by emphasizing the people paying their fair share, that he i think he has brought some pressure to increased contributions to some countries and i we should give him credit for that. But that was yet another moment of trump in this sort of boastful way trying to take credit for something that really is undeserved. So it seems everyone is more incredulous about this than i think as the Washington Post did some research, the five lies a day that the president will tell. Over time or on twitter. Gene robinson, im left with this question that some are asking, is he losing its . Well, you know, i was just thinking, mika, that this is we seem to be at the intersection of senility and you know, if it was a venn diagram this would be the section where those two circles overlap. Because a lot of what he is saying these days, you know, leaving aside for a second the fact that its its personally motivated lies concocted to damage somebody who he thinks is an enemy but it also makes no sense. It simply makes no sense and it has to assume that people have no idea how nato works or have no idea how business works. I mean, you know, Steve Rattner knows a whole lot more about business than i do, but i assume if the post office wanted to charge amazon a whole lot of money for shipping packages amazon would take it elsewhere and the post office wouldnt have that business. And a whole lot of people may lose their jobs. But what do i know . He seems not to understand fundamentals of how the world works sometimes. And its all colored by this this ire, this anger, this incoherent rage at anybody who he thinks is an opponent. Just talk about how clearly these statements that hes rattling off are lies and of course hes been lying every day and you can look at it in the Washington Post or other newspapers that document this, but on these very obvious lies, i mean, theres no shading. Theres no question. You could go into any court in this land and you could if it were relevant to your case get judicial notice, have the judge say, you get judicial notice that one, amazon doesnt get a discount rate, it gets the same bulk rate that everybody else in america gets, two, u. S. Taxpayers do not subsidize a special rate for amazon. In fact, u. S. Taxpayers dont even pay for the actual operations of the post office. And three, nato but caufers have not been coming from states contributing to nato because thats not the way it works and anybody taking a first year class on european history or European Political Science would know thats not the way it works. So we are left again asking, is the president ignorant . Or is he just out and out lying again telling a lie and ill just say it, one of the things that bug me about bill clinton so much was hed get on tv and he would lie. He now he was lying, we knew he was lying, everybody in the administration knew he was lying. Donald trump does that every single day. Well, one of the things that youve heard about President Trump is that even if his advisors correct him on a given point that he doesnt necessarily have any interest in learning what the truth is. He believes that on merit of knowing it that that is that it possesses some kind of truth. With this specific case of amazon, i really wonder when were finally going to hear from republicans. If we dont hear from them on this, then where are we going to is capitalism and protecting the free market not a holy grail of what the Republican Party once stood for . Yeah, i mean, let me ask you, when you grew up as a small government conservative, still are, i grew up a small government conservative, still am. Isnt this the sort of thing that we were warned about when we read like millton friedmann or any of the other people that we grew up reading that shaped our conservative small government libertarian minds . Isnt this the very thing that any republican or if there are any republicans left in congress, should be calling out in press conferences today . How is this the invisible hand . Its a huge its the twitter hand constantly using his twitter to just attack individuals, private individuals in business and its not okay and it shouldnt be okay with republicans. You know, they arent going to stand up for free trade. They arent going to stand up when he makes blatantly racist comments about judges. They arent going to stand up when he tries to enact a muslim ban. You would at least think they care enough to protect the free market to stand up. I dont understand at all and this, the Trump Administration on proposed 25 tariffs on 50 billion in chinese imports, mainly tech equipment. Among more than 1,300 products are flat screen tvs hold on. So if youre at home, donald trump, because of a very hes had this twitch for about 40 years. A twitch born of ignorance. The cost of your flat screen tvs are going up. The cost of your medical devices are going up. Air krafts parts will go up. Batteries. The cost of flying on airplanes will go up. The cost of pork will go up. The cost you name it, go across the board, donald trump and the trump tariff tax is going to impact you and going to impact your family when you go when you go to walmart, when you go to target, when you go to the grocery store, its going to impact you all across the board. And can we just point out the first item in that list, soybeans . That really hits a lot of states that donald trump won. It hits families like mine, i mean, it this is not what the american Agriculture Sector needs right now. And mika, farmers in iowa are getting pounded by this trade war. China said it is only polite to retaliate and within the last few hours they announced 25 tariffs on 50 million worth of american ex ports. I have Great Respect for president xi. Two of the most incredible days of my life were spent in china. Many of you were with me. Hes a tremendous person, but we have a problem with china. They e theyve created a trade deficit and i blame our representative and our preceding president s with this. So well be negotiating with china. Again, our relationship is very good with china and we intend to keep it that way. Acting secretary of state is scheduled to meet with the chinese am because door this afternoon. Among the tariffs china inoins announced on monday, the majority are in counties that President Trump trump won. They are mostly farming and manufacturing only in wineries do clinton counties have most jobs. So willie, donald trump says that he loves china. And he says that china loves him. Its just American Consumers and American Farmers and any americans that by automobile or tvs or you name it, that he must not like because theyre going to be punished by this. Its playing out exactly how everyone predicted it would play out. Every economist knew it. Steve rattner knew it. Now its china. This is what happens when you impose tariffs against a power. To what benefit of the American Economy . How is this helping . Zero benefit and a detriment in the fact that this trade war trade is good for the world as a general matter. Its part of why we have this successful economy and so this is really kind of an opening novel if you l. But you see the reaction of the stock market this morning and its a reflection of what the stock market is going to happen to our overall economy and our business if this trade war really escalates. Lets bring in Bryan Sullivan to weigh in on this. What are we missing here . All right. Well, a couple things, but a good discussion here. One thing i will add is these are proposed tariffs. The president posed 3 billion in tariffs on imported aluminum from around the world. China retaliated a bit. Now hes instituted 50 billion in tariffs. Stock futures have indicated will drop over 400 points at the open. So i think that the one thing that we do need to note is that these are proposed tariffs. The tariffs that we are seeing are as you guys have rightly noted are on agricultural, things that we would ship over there that might be included in manufacturing and shipped back here. Other companies that would need to be watched if indeed the tariffs happen, things like gm and ford, cars, suvs, there would be theres already taxes in china. There would be increased tariffs there. Gm of course and the dow. Uncreased tariffs on aircraft and parts as well. Youve got caterpillar, again, another Major Company based in illinois that is in the Dow Jones Industrial average which is why we are seeing futures with such a drop. Right now we have proposals out there. Basically theyre going to have some hearings on this, but if they go through were looking at mid may when these tariffs would go into effect. It is a process theres a process. But if you look at boeing. Boeings stock today at the moment looks like its going to open down 6 . And this is just proposed, but actually American Companies just like amazon did a couple of days ago because of the president s recklessness lost billions of dollars. Boeing is going to lose billions of dollars. The market today is going to lose billions of dollars. People that are impacted by these areas that donald trump actually is going after with this trump tariff tax, theyre going to be impacted. People with retirement plans all across america are going to be impacted. People who are on retirement and have fixed retirement plans, they are being punished today. They will be punished by the market because of the president. And again, im just wondering, willie, if you have lets go back to what elise said. If republicans arent concerned that Donald Trumps a racist and we just have to go back to paul ryan who said that donald trump is one of the most racist things he could ever say and yet they endorsed him. Right . Yep. If you have republicans who dont really care enough to stand up and stop the president when he passes the largest omnibus bills ever that drive up the National Debt and they say absolutely nothing, if you have republicans sitting on capitol hill and trump passes his tariff tax that actually does great violence to the idea of free trade and what republicans have preached about for and americans stood for for 30, 40 years and they say absolutely nothing and then he savages a company in the private sector, goes in and forget about the invisible hand, this is an iron fist of an autocrat in waiting and cost billions of dollars in stocks because its a political enemy and donald trump is trying to choose winners and losers and thats the gravest of violence to all the ideas of Milton Friedmann and other conservative icons. What is the conservative movement you cant just put this on the Republican Party. This is a conservative movement now that is muted by donald trump. And they will not come out and say this man is a liberal and he is unfit to be a republican president or be called a conservative. Its a question weve asked for 15 months now and i dont know the answer. What are they afraid of . What happens if you step up to a microphone today and say you cannot attack an American Company and amazon. A few of them talked about tariffs when that was proposed a couple weeks ago. He rolled through them and proposed the tariffs anyway, but what happens to you if you cross the president . What are you afraid of . Last year it was because they wanted to get the tax cut. They wanted to work with him on some big legislation. What are you afraid of . I dont know the answer to that question. If you walk up to a bank of microphones and say taking on amazon, dropping the cost of amazon, costing jobs, costing workers, what is the cost to its wrong. Your principle its supposed to be what you stand for. Lets push back on two ways. The common is this. I do wonder if the president recognizes the importance of amazon for the overall market. You have to understand if youre not a stock market person amazon is incredibly important to the overall market because its been a massive growth vessel. But elise jordan, you would understand this as well being from mississippi and by the way, guys, im going to be doing my show from alabama next week and so tune in because heres the thing. There are people that were going to find in pennsylvania that elise or steven would agree with the president. What they would say is that china has tied its currency, many would say unlawfully to the u. S. Dollar over the last number of years so that their currency is not allowed to free float against our currency and therefore chinese made products are artificially cheap and thats the counterargument. Thats what those in the Manufacturing Centers will say. China is not playing a fair global game and that maybe these tariffs are the way to go back to the negotiating table and see if china will change its currency pay. I want to talk to steve about that and then david, but steve, this is again, donald trump is reckless, hes irresponsible, hes costing billions of dollars to investors, mom and pop operations because of the way hes going about doing it. Its just like its just like north korea. If you have a nuclear threat, you dont rush in unannounced to a meeting with south korean diplomats and say hey, lets get together with kim jongun. You have a long drawnout process that may take a year, two years to make sure that will be a productive meeting because the last four president s have failed at it. Lets get it right this time. Its the same thing if we have problems with china, thats something that you dont resolve in 20 years of problems in a tweet or by blurting things out at a press conference when he hasnt thought through this. You negotiate it. You sit down, you talk and then you come up with the best plan that will not hurt American Consumers. Well, thats exactly the point. The way hes gone about it. Imposing these tariffs out of nowhe nowhere, what else are they going to do and destabilizing the markets and all these things, its the wrong way to do it. Other developed countries are just as upset about chinas trade practices as we are. Theyd be happy to get together and take china on. I would just correct on one thing. China used to manipulate its currency. What it manipulates is every other aspect of its trade practices. Stealing our technology, taking our intellectual property, they are all issues we have been doing this. I remember us complaining if they dont stop stealing our intellectual property. Well, thats fair and ill correct stephens correction. I didnt say they manipulated their kurncurrency. We dont actually know what the chinese currency is worth. Can i say this . Oh, no. This squawkbox debate will continue on our channel. David, whether were talking about north korea, whether were talking about meetings with Vladimir Putin or trade disputes with china that have gone on a quarter of a century, would you agree that most of our trading partners are concerned how donald trump has just has just stumbled into the trade war with china . I think theres a lot of anxiety in the world about all the elements of Donald Trumps policy at home and abroad. He wants to be disrupter and destabilizer. Well, by golly, he is and the world is uncertain or from daytoday, ill take another example we havent talked about but in some ways the most distressing thing that happened yesterday for me was to see the contrast between our four star commander whether or nots trying to keep this successful cam bane against the Islamic State going against iraq and syria, trying to talk about how hes going to continue that at the very same time the president is really on a rant about how he wants to get out of syria and iraq and the middle east and you flow, he spent 7 trillion, got nothing. Nothing. We should take their oil its back to the campaign as with his rhetoric on trade and so many other things. I just think were seeing a president who is reverting to these campaign lines, simple, angry, populous statements, not backed up by facts as you said at the beginning, joe, but the one that distresses me most, these were hard won gains in syria. The Islamic State was destroyed at an enormous cost and i dont know why. If anybody heard the president , if you didnt hear the president yesterday talking about abandoning our efforts of keeping isis out of syria and to prevent isis from rebuilding their military where they would burn people alive, torture women, rape women, commit genocide, if if you didnt hear the president say that, dont worry. The leaders of isis from all four corners of the globe, you know what theyre doing this morning because of what the commander in chief said yesterday . They are planning their return to syria. Americans and our kurdish friends and allies died, gave their all, breaking up isis, and this just two years ago everyone was talking about every day is one of the grave dangers not only the middle east stability but to stability across the west. And now the president is talking about actually retreating and allowing isis to open back up for business there. I agree with david. It was shocking what the president was saying after we finally have come up with a Sustainable Way forward in that region where we use our allies primarily to stop the spread of isis. The president s now again, hes just he might as well plant a sign there and say, isis, welcome back. Coming up, special Counsel Robert Mueller hass reportedly told President Trumps lawyers the president is under investigation but not a target at this point. Well talk to a Washington Post reporter who helped break the story. Our primary mission in terms of that was getting rid of isis. Weve almost completed that task. I want to get out. I want to bring our troops back home. I want to start rebuilding our nation. So its time. Its time. We were very successful against isis. Well be successful against anybody militarily. But sometimes its time to come back home. And were thinking about that very seriously. In terms of our campaign in syria, we were in syria to fight isis. 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Like anybody, i would like to live a long life, longevity has its place. But im not concerned about that now. And ive seen the promised land. I may not get there with you, but i want you to know the night that we as a people will get to the promised land. That was 50 years ago last night when the reverend Martin Luther king jr. Was in memphis to help striking sanitation workers. He was asked to speak at the mason temple where thousands of people had gathered hoping to hear him. The sermon he delivered there would be his last and he would be assassinated the next day. 50 years ago today. With us now, host of msnbcs politics nation, the president of the National Action net work reverend al sharpton. Every time we watch that moving, stirring speech he prophesies his own death that comes the next morning. He did that. It was to be his last speech and he was there marching and helping the garbage workers strike. Later today his son and i are joining a march in memphis with the same garbage workers strike. Not the strike, but the union, because labor is under attack, many of the things dr. King stood for is under attack 50 years later and later were going to his grave site with his sister and brother. I think for people that dont understand, those of us who grew up in the King Movement and the generation after king is that we mark the 50th anniversary with the challenges that we have a president thaz ha made this kind of racial divide and tolerance become vogue again, because when you look at what donald trump is doing around questions of people of color, mexicans, blacks, muslims, he has reintroduced what dr. Kings life was against. Taking us 50 years or further, this sort of talk coming from a president , i dont know how far you would have to go back to hear this sort of talk from a president that were hearing now unfortunately from this deplorable example of one. Talk about the New York Times touched on it today, there were actually two kings. Theres a Martin Luther king that we like to remember as a country and that is the Martin Luther king from 1963 through the 50s and the 60s when it was all easy and it was black and white. Racial justice versus racial intolerance, good versus evil. But in the last five years of his life and you touched on it, the reason he was in memphis, he moved beyond Racial Justice where in many of those areas were doing pretty well today and weve had a remarkable march over the past 50 years, but at the end of his life he was talking about how Racial Justice and Economic Justice cannot be segregated and we are not doing well in the areas that he spent the last years of his life fighting, are we . He talked about how he would thought of a movement to give blacks the right to check in a hotel and go and buy a cup of coffee at the coffee shop, but now he found they couldnt afford to pay for the room or pay for the coffee. So we had to deal with Economic Justice. Were still there. The gap racially economically today is the same as it was 50 years ago. So the economic question is what he championed as well as he came out against the war in vietnam and he adhered again to the principles of nonviolence and joe, what many people dont want to talk about is that he was under attack from the left and the right. Right. The left was angry at him saying nonviolence had run its course. I grew up in new york. I was 13 when he was killed. I had just become youth director. I was attacked, you know, youre a sellout because youre nonviolent. The right was mad because he was with the anti vietnam crowd and calling for Economic Justice and the president turned on him because he was against his war. The head of the naacp attacked dr. King. So he was isolated and many of us that grew up in the generation behind, we know it because it was not vogue to be with dr. King when you were a teenager. Now everybodys embracing him. You cant hardly get a seat at your own memorial for him, but dr. King had the moral courage and firm hard core rock solid belief in what he was doing that he did it when he was popular and when he wasnt popular and thats part of what weve got to remember that he stood for something that ended up being right. Im very curious to see if the president today tweets about 50 years after dr. King and what dr. King stood for. This is a man, donald trump, that has come to honor memorials with me in new york. I wonder if he will put on the face who was trying to befriend hip hoppers in new york before he was a politician or is he going to keep playing this kind of racial playing to a crowd but dividing to a crowd. I wonder, mr. President , can you find at least the moral strength to memorialize mr. King and what he stood for. And what will it mean if he does tweet based on what hes done over the last several years. Last night i watched the mountain top speech 15 minutes or so again and i was talking with my daughter about it and she asked if dr. Kij hadnt been shot and killed would he still be alive today . Yeah, 89. Theres a chance he would have been alive right now. To the revs point what do you think 89yearold dr. Martin luther king would think as he watches President Trump, the state of Racial Justice in america . What would be his view of whats happening right now in this country . Well, hed be speaking out in his in his loud eloquent voice about everything. And not just about issue affecting African Americans, but issues affecting owl communit s communities, minority communities that are oppressed and there would be no sort of ambiguity in what he is saying. You know, one thing that i reflect on when i look back at his life is that if you think about it, he was always a controversial figure, even in those days of the late 50s and early 60s when we look back and we say well, clearly he was dr. King was on the right path, there was controversy back then and i remember it when i was a little kid. There were there were African Americans leaders who who argued for a slower approach, a more deliberate approach to demanding freedom and justice and he was he was seen as dangerous in that sense. And among some people and then of course its kind of afterthe march on washington views sort of consolidated around dr. King as a leader in the movement. It an extraordinary man. I go to the king memorial here in washington and which faces out across the tidal basin looking toward the Jefferson Memorial and you reflect on the fact that hes the one person most responsible for bringing the country closer to representing those stirring words that that Thomas Jefferson wrote in the declaration of independence and its a wonderful juxtaposition. I recommend everyone to go to that memorial and take in that view. It really is remarkable that he actually helped fulfill the words of jefferson and the founders. And following up on reverend als point, it is so important and gene, even in the days of the late 50s and early 60s, Martin Luther king was despised by jay edgar hoover, the attorney general, never had any use for him. I dont care how history is rewritten. Ive long admired bobby kendy, but one of his blind spots but he saw hims an irritant that was dragging him to the finish line. Well bring in tom brokaw from washington. Retired nato commander weighs in on the border wall next on morning joe. [burke] at farmers, weve seen almost everything so we know how to cover almost anything. Even close claws. [driver] so, we took your shortcut, which was a bad idea. [cougar growling] [passenger] what are you doing . [driver] i cant believe that worked. I dropped the keys. [burke] and we covered it. Talk to farmers, we know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum directv now gives you more for your thing. Your letting go thing. Your sorry not sorry thing. Your out with the old in with the new, onto bigger and better thing. Get the live tv you love. No bulky hardware. No satellite. No annual contract. Try directv now for 10 mo for 3 months. More for your thing. Thats our thing. Visit directvnow dot com our laws are so week and so pathetic you would not understand this because i know how strong your laws are at the border. Its like we have no border because we had obama make changes, president obama made changes that basically created no border. Its called catch and release. You catch them, you register them, they go into our country, we cant throw them out. We have very bad laws for our border. And we are going to be doing some things, ive been speaking with general mattis. Were going to be doing some things militarily. Were going to be guarding our border with the military. Thats a big step. We really havent done that before or certainly not very much before. Im just wondering, should anybody tell him, yeah, we talk about nato. He was lying about nato. Or ignorant. Amazon, he was either lying or ignorant about amazon. If you dont believe me watch what he said yesterday. You see it on fox. And hes actually we actually had a problem, but now actually the number of immigrants Illegal Immigrants coming across the border has dropped. So okay. So there you go. Perhaps maybe he knows that. You think so you think this is again, you think hes lying just to try to get anne coulter to stop mean tweeting about him . Shes so mean. Youre being sarcastic. She tweeted at trump. She baited him, and he has done all of these remarkably stupid things over the past five or six days. Just to respond to her tweet. He signs the omnibus bill. And when i say stupid, you cant find an expert that wouldnt say these are really stupid things that hes doing. Because when youre not actually a conservative at your core, youre fishing for the things that you think make you conservative and so when you sign the omnibus bill and you getenough, theres no wall for immigration, you react in a way that you think pleases them. Thats not really how we want our country to run, pleasing commentators on tv. Lets try and elevate the conversation, given the president touched us up on this level. Joining us now, former nato supreme ally leader, retired fourstar Navy Admiral James devritis, chief International Security and diplomacy analyst for nbc news and msnbc. Let me ask you a question, troops to the border, go. Bad idea. Lets think about this for a minute. We all want to control the border, but throwing the u. S. Military at the problem is taking the wrong tool to the operation. Our troops are trained in the application of lethal force. They are not trained in law enforcement. They are going to be very expensive to move down to that border region. Youre going to try and distribute them all along that border. Its just a very bad idea in every dimension. It kind of fails the common sense check and also kind of fails the symbolic check. It looks to the latin american, the caribbean that are militarizing our border. What we ought to do is give the resources to the department of Homeland Security, not to build a 30 foot high wall. That wont work either, but what we ought to be doing is creating an intelligent, 21st century border with Artificial Intelligence looking at patterns of movement, unmanned vehicles, some physical structures, enhance technique all along that border. Thats the right way to go, joe, not throwing troops at the problem. Well, and you write in bloomberg about the concept about the wall itself and make the points that the bigger question is politically joe have republicans been trying to sort of help him have his money for his wall just to see if they can get Something Back for him . Meanwhile this concept keeps going down the road and becoming a reality, what have republicans gotten back from this president . Admiral, it doesnt seem that republicans or democrats want this wall because like you they understand general kelly said it when he was being confirmed heading the department of Homeland Security he actually laid out the same exact approach that you laid out, a few physical structures here and there, but rely on Artificial Intelligence to figure out where the movement is going, drones. A lot of different ways you do this that actually may not be cheaper than if you build an 18th century structure. What would be more effective . Indeed they would. Think about it this way, you can build a big, beautiful wall, 30 feet high, 2,000 miles long, medieval structure, check. But here is the news flash, here is the news flash, joe, and i know this because im an admiral, right to the left of the wall is an ocean. People want to go around the wall at sea, they will. A big, beautiful ocean, by the way. A big beautiful ocean and pretty nice one over on your side, joe, on the gulf coast as you know fairly well. Very nice. This is sort of the 21st century didnt we learn about this with the imagine a line. Isnt this the french built a huge, beautiful wall to stop the germans from coming in. How did that work out . Yeah, exactly. Ill raise you one and lets think about it in the context of an earlier conversation which is tariffs, which are really trade walls. We tried that, too, historically. They were called the holly smoot trade tariffs after world war i. How did that work out . Well, we cracked the Global Economy and you can drop a plum line from that to the rise of fascism in the second world war. So walls dont work in this 21st century. We need to think more about building bridges. Steve ratner, you say that trumps border wall is search of a problem. Take us through your charts. When you look at whats going on with border crossings, you might say to yourself, why are we talking about a wall . Lets start by seeing whats happening to illegal border crossings. I dont understand. He likes to build stuff. Hold on a second. Thats going down. I want to highlight in case theres anything missing for the audience. You can see im not good at charts. That looks like the numbers are going down. Are those numbers going down . Whats going down exactly . American freedom or what is that . That is the number of people trying to cross the border illegally. Wait, wait. No, no no. Is that because we built a wall . Does that chart show that american sovereignty is going down . Is that what that is . I dont understand. Dont put an accent on. Well, im from the south. Talk slow. This is how i talk. This is not an accent. You know this is how i talk when im off the air. Please, stop. Dont do that. Im going to go back to the chart. Im dead serious. We have been saying this through the campaign its a good chart, steve. Nonstop, we said it in 2016 talking about this big, beautiful stupid wall. Were saying it now. This is a solution in search of a problem. I said that. Well, because you listen to us. Weve been saying it for two years now. The real problem, the real crisis was during the Bush Administration is when it really exploded. Yes. Let me show you one other piece to this. Another chart . Wait a second, can we go back to the last chart. I want to go back one more time because what did it do when barack obama was president . Could you start in 2008 . Thats 2005. Its going actually straight down. When barack obama is president of the United States. That line is why hispanic groups and immigrant groups gave barack obama holy hell for eight years. When donald trump is talking about this being a barack obama problem, hes just again woshd of the lay day lying. Hes wrong about one other thing. It shows you one more piece of data. In fact, the number of mexicans crossing the border is dropping even more sharply and the number increasing somewhat are the Central Americans that hes talking about, a grand total of 222,000 of them. There is a problem with Central Americans moving up through mexico and trying to get into the u. S. But a wall is the wrong way to stop them because all youre doing is creating a refugee crisis on the mexican border. You need to deal as obama tried to do with the problem in Central America, if you look at the last one to give you a little more ammunition, talk about mexicans, they are actually leaving the country on a net basis. Since the financial crisis, they have on a net basis been leaving the country. Keep that up for a second. Rev, this really is just a mirage. During the Bush Administration, earlier in the reagan, bush and Clinton Administration, we had a massive influx of Illegal Immigrants. Look at those numbers, minus 140,000 between 2009 and 2014. He is building an unnecessary wall but what he is doing is dividing americans for political reasons. Thats the real wall hes building. Right. Because its an us versus them psychology that hes erecting for political purposes. When its unnecessary. He has people believing theres caravans coming after us when he knows better. What he really wants is to keep people divided so he can stay in power to serve his business friends. Admiral, i want to show you steve ratners last chart again shows between 95 and 2000, during the last five years of Clinton Administration we really did have a problem. We had 2 million about 2 and a quarter million mexicans coming up from mexico illegally from 2005 to 10, minus 20,000 and again minus 140,000 from 2009 to 2014 and like many things, many trends during the Obama Administration, those trends are continuing into the Trump Administration. Before nato commander, i was in charge of all military operations, Security Operations south of the United States so i know this terrain pretty well, joe. Part of why that drop occurs is because of our work in mexico, in Central America with the governments there to try and alleviate the violence problems that drive an enormous amount of this illegal migration. So the solutions as everyone has said this morning is not to build the great wall of china across our southern border, but rather to work with the nations in the south. We have a shared interest here in reducing this kind of violence. Thats part of why that drop occurred throughout the period you correctly point out. Steve ratner has it exactly right. This is about working the security south of us so we dont create another crisis which can destabilize some of those fragile democracies pretty quickly. Let me write that down because i know that its going to be on a plaque. Steve ratner has that exactly right. I would like to go back to the question whether how china manages its currency. Well, i knew we would all pay for that line. Closer to the top of the hour. So admiral, we have been concerned here for some time and no one has expressed it more eloquently than David Ignatius on whats happening in syria right now. David is in washington and has a question for you on that. Admiral, youve been a combatant commander, i want to ask you whether youre concerned that the president s comments are leading to an erosion of the situation on the ground for our military personnel and their allies in Eastern Syria where theyre exposed, where theyve had a lot of success, is that success being squandered by the president s comments . I think it is. And as i speak with senior military, people are very concerned also about the flip dropping of this just in a press conference not thought through, that just undermines the ability of the military on the ground to conduct the tactical operations. So thats very concerning, david. But as you know very well, theres a strategic piece of this, too. And so when crown Prince Mohammed of saudi arabia or the Prime Minister of israel hear those comments, think about their reaction as theyre trying to structure gradual approach between israel and the Sunni Arab States and stand against iran. So, weve got the tactical component that you mentioned correctly, david. And then it also undermines what we need to be doing there strategically in a very dramatic way. So i would say a bad day for u. S. Interests in the middle east when that comment just kind of rolled out. Admiral, thank you very much for being on this morning. It is just after the top of the hour now, with us we have former aide to the george w. Bush white house and state department aleez jordan. Steve ratner who is right this morning. Reverend al sharpton. Columnist for the Washington Post David Ignatius and Eugene Johnson and editor in chief of the atlantic magazine Jeffrey Goldberg is with us. Before we can move on, we have to go to jeffrey and see if hell smile this morning. No. Not this morning. Ah, well no. Jeffrey, why dont you lean in and tell us what you think. Why dont you join in on the syrian conversation. Obviously a lot of concerns yesterday the president of the United States talking about actually surrendering a lot of gangs that weve our troops and allies have achieved in syria. What are your thoughts about the comments that were made yesterday . Whats the impact on the United States, our National Security and actually isis . Can i do this without smiling . You sure can. Yes. This is serious. I dont know why i need to gin up a smile. Dont gin it up. No need to be perky. Please dont smile here. This is about isis. No smiling. Sorry. So remember back in the days of the Obama Administration when he would put sometimes the president would put time limits on military engagements. He said when were getting back into afghanistan, he would talk about when were getting out. And a lot of his republican critics went crazy and said you dont telegraph to the enemy what your plan is for getting out. You telegraph to the enemy that youre there to win. Whether or not thats your actual longterm plan, you dont signal that. So what we have in syria right now is you have the commander on the ground trying to signal to isis, no, no, no youre not coming back. Were not going to let that happen again. And then being overruled by the commander in chief saying were getting out now. So, the people who are there are a lot of people in the world who are happy with various things that the president has said over the last 48 hours. One of the groups that you would think would be happy right now is the leadership of isis because theyve just heard theyre in their back foot, right, because the u. S. Has been effective in containing them, but theyve just heard the u. S. President sort of revert back to a quasi isolationist stance look, im getting out of syria, we won. Its over. We havent won. Theyre there. Theyre in hiding. Theyre in their spider holes, but theyre still there. And for a president that criticized barack obama as much as trump criticized president obama for telegraphing his moves and then for the president and john bolten to criticize barack obama for leaving iraq in 2011, does this not just do the same thing . I said earlier today, americans may not have heard much of the president s speech, but members of isis, leaders of isis around the globe certainly did yesterday. Theyre planning to go back. Exactly. I mean, its really and by the way, this is not an endorsement or anything to what barack obama did. I was flum exed by that, as were you, when he would put a time limit. You dont put public time limits on military interventions designed to defeat an enemy. So its remarkable that trumps language obviously is more extreme and more uncal brated regarding these time limiting kind of issues than Barack Obamas ever was, but theres just crickets from the hawks, from the republican hawks who obviously understand that if youre an isis leader what youre thinking right now, oh, im going to wait. Im just going to wait for a few months and see what happens. Hes playing right into the hands of isis and doing exactly what he said he would never do. I dont get it. I dont get it. I dont get it either. And let me ask you, jeffrey, about your remarkable interview with the crown prince of saudi arabia. A couple things he said, just extraordinary, one that irans Supreme Leader makes hitler look good. He also recognized israels right to exist and also told you that he looked forward to future diplomatic relations with israel. Talk about some of the really i dont think im overstating it but some of the remarkable things he told you in that interview. Hes a blunt new leader. As you all know, one of the things that makes him remarkable is that hes 32 in a kingdom in which the average king has been 80 plus, right . This guy is functionally the king already. Hes the crown prince. His father is still the king but hes running the show. On iran, you know, when youre worse than hitler, it doesnt give you a lot of room to come back to negotiate with someone. When you declare your enemy, your adversary to be worse than hitler. And so we are clearfully a cycle here where were looking at the possibility of an eventual confrontation. Its a cold war now between iran and saudi arabia. This could get make sure that congress and this administration understand that the u. S. Is meant to be on the side of the saudis in whatever confrontation is coming. On the israel front, what was remarkable to me what i noticed was arab states have recognized the existence of israel, the reality of israel, but when i asked him these questions, we were talking about the right of israel to exist. And you follow middle east politics, you know what that means. This is legitimate thing. Its not just a real thing we have to grapple with. Theres a reality on the ground. Theres a bunch of jews living in the middle east. We cant get them to leave. Were going to recognize their state. No, youre indigenous to here. You and the palestinians together should have your rights to your own states next to each other. That was remarkable. This, mika, is something obviously that your father knew better than anybody else. This is something that israelis have wanted to hear from an arab leader since 1948. Pretty stunning. So much was said yesterday, so much happened that a lot are asking at this point what is going on with this president. Im not sure why wasnt asked before but at least its being asked. While speaking along leaders from three baltic nations that have voiced concern over the potential for russian aggression, President Trump yesterday argued that no one has been tougher on russia than him. Ideally we want to be able to get along with russia. Getting along with russia is a good thing not a bad thing. Now, maybe we will and maybe we wont. Nobody has been tougher on russia but getting along with russia would be a good thing, not a bad thing. And just about everybody agrees to that except very stupid people. How do you see Vladimir Putin . Is he a friend or a foe . Well find out. Ill let you know. There will be a time when ill let you know. Youre going to find out very quickly. Nobody has been tougher on russia than i have. And i know youre nodding yes because everyone agrees when they think about it. Theres nobody been tougher on russia. And with that being said, i think i could have a very Good Relationship with president putin. I think. Its possible i wont and you will know about it. Believe me, this room will know about it before i know about it. Its a real possibility that i could have a Good Relationship and remember this, getting along with russia is a good thing. So, meanwhile outgoing the fired National Security adviser h. R. Mcmaster denounced Vladimir Putin over what he called russias efforts to undermine our open societies and the foundations of International Peace and stability. Speaking at an Atlantic Council event yesterday, mcmasters were some of the most blistering rhetoric so far from the Trump Administration. Russian em brazenly and implausibly denies its actions and we have failed to impose sufficient costs. The kremlins confidence is growing. As is agents conduct their sustained campaigns to undermine our confidence in ourselves and in one another. Mr. Putin may believe that he is winning in this new form of warfare. He may believe that his aggressive actions in the parks of salisbury, cyberspace and in the air and on the high seas are undermine our confidence, our institutions and our values. Perhaps he believes that our free nations are weak and will not respond, will not respond to his provocations. He is wrong. Russian aggression is strengthening our resolve and our confidence. We might all help mr. Putin understand his grave error. We might show him the beaches of normandy where lingering craters and bullet holes demonstrate the west will to sacrifice to preserve our freedom. You know, willie, we usually after the show as Everybody Knows we put on a song. That reminds you of a couple beat nicks. Exactly. The general is not going yeah. No, hes going to quietly into that darkness. David ignatius, thats a man with a couple days left on the job before john bolten comes in. No ambiguity in the speech yesterday, but if you contrast it with the clip that mika played right before of the president sort of twisting himself in knots and without qualifiers, saying, guys, its a good thing to be friends with putin. I could be friends possibly with putin. We want a Good Relationship with russia, not pointing out all the things that general mcmaster did right there. Its the ump tooent example of President Trump not being able to directly say the things that are wrong in a relationship with russia and what it does around the world. Its striking to see general mcmaster in his last hours trying to speak truth to power. Here is the president saying, no one has done more than me to deal with russia. And h. R. Mcmaster that night speaking to the baltic president s says the u. S. Has failed to impose sufficient costs directly contradicting this sort of happy talk that the president was putting out earlier in the day. Good for h. R. Mcmaster to say that. He is heading out of a white house that was an almost impossible place for him to work, and work effectively. But its good to see him being straight forward with the country in this last speech. Youre talking to sources on the National Security council, the rank and file staff are very upset that h. R. Mcmaster is leaving and that he was really well regarded among his team. Loved. He had a devoted team. He knew everyones name and looking now to this next chapter, the big question is what is john bolten going to do with syria . I heard that h. R. Mcmaster had just had enough when it came to the questioning of the strategy that men and women are on the ground executing. When the commander in chief keeps questioning, oh, im going to withdraw from syria yet we have 2,000 troops there. He understood that in order for strategy to be successful that you had to be invested in it and make your decision. Donald trump could never come along. You were never there. They didnt know what their mission was. They did a remarkable job. Joe, i was just in syria two months ago traveling with our special forces, and ive seen the success, brutal success, of the campaign that we waged against isis. I spent a day in raqqa. I saw how we with our allies took that down. Places where they threw people from Tall Buildings if they thought they were gay, tortured people, that brutal regime was destroyed by the application of american power. Ive been hearing last week from my contacts in syria, military and other contacts, people on the ground have no idea whats coming next. They try to get some guidance about what the policy of the administration is, what trumps comments mean. And they cant get any explanation. So, theres the beginning of panic on the ground. People who fled toward american areas thinking here is security, here is a chance to get some stability again are now wondering should i leave, should i flee. People need to see this for the human drama that it is, the president just throws these comments out and peoples lives are at stake. These were hard won games and theyre going to slip away. A new report says Robert Mueller has spoken to Donald Trumps legal team about the president s status on the russia probe as the special counsel seeks an interview with him. Three people familiar with the discussions tell the Washington Post that mueller informed trumps legal team last month that he is continuing to investigate the president but does not consider him a criminal target at this point. Lets bring in one of the reporters who broke this story, Investigative Reporter for the Washington Post and msnbc contributor. Carol, a lot of back story here about why john dowd left and i just got to say as a lawyer i would be telling my client at this point means absolutely nothing. And that seems to be any lawyer would say at this point means at this point, right now. Ten minutes from now you may be. Presumed innocent. You may be. So i guess that conversation from muellers office to trump and his team actually caused deep divisions inside the legal team. Explain. Well, it certainly, joe, exacerbated things quite a bit because the president , were told, immediately was tremendously relieved, elated, to hear from his lawyers that bob mueller, the special counsel who has been hovering over his presidency almost from the very beginning, a few months in, had described him as not a criminal target. The president , as you know, always wanted someone to tell him he is not under investigation so that he can move about his business and run the country. He feels this is a terrible shadow. However, some of his lawyers had very different opinions we are now learning about both what that meant and what the president s legal jeopardy might be. John dowd, we are told by close trump friends, strongly urged the president not to take this bait, not to take this information and feel comfortable that he should be interviewed by bob muellers team. In fact, he apparently counselled the president , look, if you have no legal jeopardy now, you may have a lot of legal jeopardy when you walk into this room under oath. You might misspeak. You might do something. So dont walk into that. However, other lawyers, we are told on his Team Including ty cobb, felt that it was politically necessary for the president to answer questions. Remember the president has said no collusion, no collusion, no crime. And that it was appropriate to cooperate with mueller. I think most defense lawyers around the city are saying now they agree with john dowd. And of course President Trump always thinks hes his own best advocate. He would love to walk in there and try to defend himself. Important distinction you point out in your piece, carol, that i think you need to hone in on here which is subject versus target. Mueller apparently telling the legal team for donald trump that President Trump is a subject but not a target of the investigation. What does that mean . Well, in the department of justice manual the difference is allegedly quite sharp but in reality its not much. A target is somebody that you have enough evidence about their actions and intent to charge them. Theyre essentially what a prosecutor views as a future defendant. A subject is someone whose conduct may appear suspicious, unethical, its the subject of grand jury investigation. Its relevant to your work, but you may not have evidence connecting it to a crime. And let me also add the word yet. You may not yet have evidence connecting it to a crime. Right. As i say, that could change already since that report came out. At this time im not going to ask you about the Boston Red Sox fivegame winning streak. Okay. Let me ask you about the red sox fivegame winning streak. Yankees had a big one last night. Yeah, they did. Carol, thank you. Thank you, mika. I would rather not focus on that. EuGene Robinson, David Ignatius, thank you both for being on this morning. Thank you guys so much. And tell bezos we say hello. Right. You all do see him everyday. Yeah, talk all the time. Everyday, right. He gives you your run down. Stands over my shoulder, you know, says no. There should be a comma there. Those menacing arms of his. I know. Steve ratner, reverend al, thank you as well. Tell us whats happening in memphis today. Were going to join the march in memphis, Martin Luther king, iii, will be speaking. Tonight were going to atlanta to be at the grave site at the time dr. King was killed. And then the 18th through the 21st we bring them all to new york for National Action at works convention we plan the next 50 years what are we going to do 50 years going forward. Dont forget less than a week ago i was preaching the ewing. We go live to memphis where as we mentioned 50 years ago today one of americas greatest leaders was killed. Today we are remembering the lifes work of dr. Martin luther king jr. And Nbcs Tom Brokaw has a special look at the special rights icon. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. This year, t up a notch. So in this commercial we see two travelers at a comfort inn with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, wow, maybe ill glow too if i book direct at choicehotels. Com. Who glows . Just say, badda book. Badda boom. Nobody glows. He gets it. Always the lowest price, guaranteed. Book now at choicehotels. Com you might or joints. Hing for your heart. But do you take something for your brain. With an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is the number one selling brainhealth supplement in drug stores nationwide. Prevagen. The name to remember. Only tylenol® rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. They release medicine fast, for fast pain relief. Tylenol® Martin Luther king jr. Was killed tonight in memphis, tennessee. Shot in the face as he stood alone on the balcony of his hotel room. He died in a hospital an hour later. A look there at nbcs coverage 50 years ago today of the assassination of the dr. Martin luther king jr. Joining us now from memphis, tennessee, tom brokaw. Tom . Mika, ive been listening to you this morning and of course all of us have been involved in covering the political chaos that were going through now, but let me remind you about 1968. 15,000 americans died in vietnam. Lyndon johnson announce head would not run for reelection. Richard nixon was the leading candidate for the republicans. George wallace of alabama was running as a racist candidate for president. And dr. Martin luther king was struggling with this Nonviolent Movement challenged by younger africanamericans who wanted to be more harsh, so he came here to memphis to side with a striking sanitation workers and it was a fateful decision. This is how we remember him. I have a dream today. Reporter but 50 years ago, the reverend dr. Martin luther king jr. Was under siege. I must confess that that dream that i had that day has in many points turned into a nightmare. Reporter for more than a decade, he had helped awaken this country to racial injustice. He won the nobel peace prize. Weve got to say in no Uncertain Terms that racism is alive and on the throne in american society. Reporter but by 1968, militant young blacks had grown impatient with kings nonviolent approach. Were going to shoot the cops who are shooting our Black Brothers in the back in this country. Reporter dr. King stood his ground. Well, im still convinced that their nonviolence has not ended. Stop the bombing and stop the war. Reporter he began speaking out against the war in vietnam. But some civil rights leaders saw that as a distraction. And after years after confronting segregation in the south, he turned north, targeting poverty and economic injustice. Its much easier to integrate a lunch counter than is to guarantee an annual income. Reporter revered my millions, king was also hated and feared by many white racists. We want king. We want king. Reporter his life was in constant danger. But he never backed down. I cant lose hope because when you lose hope you die. Reporter in 1968, king was planning a massive new march on washington. We are coming to demand a bill of economic and social rights. Reporter but he was drawn into a conflict in memphis where sanitation workers, most of them black, were on strike. The city was refusing to settle. And it got ugly. Police used mace. What started as a labor issue became a civil rights cause. King was asked to help. He came to memphis, joining a poorly organized march that turned tragically violent. Some demonstrators looted and broke windows. A black teenager was killed by police. It was kings worst nightmare. Undermining his reputation for nonviolence, jeopardizing his plans for the washington march just weeks later. We must not allow the events of the day to cause us to let up. That would be a tragic error. Reporter king decided to stage another march in memphis, just days later, despite a court injunction. He had something to prove. I feel that we can still have a nonviolent demonstration and that we will have a nonviolent demonstration here in memphis. Reporter at a rally for striking workers, king was defiant. So just as i say we arent going to let any dogs or water holes turn us around, we arent going to let any injunction turn us around reporter and he had Something Else to say in that speech that night. Because ive been to the mountain top. Reporter it sounded like a premonition. And ive seen the promised land. I may not get there with you. But i want you to know the night that we as a people will get to the promised land. Reporter less than 24 hours later, standing on the balcony of lorraine motel, dr. Martin luther king jr. Was hit by a single shot fired from the window of a nearby boarding house. Martin luther king jr. Was killed tonight in memphis, tennessee. Witnessens say the impact knocked him off his feet and that he fell back here against this serving tray. Reporter president johnson appealed for calm. I ask every citizen to reject the blind violence that has struck dr. King who lived by nonviolence. Reporter but there was violence, riots in more than 100 american cities. In memphis, four days after kings death, the peaceful march he promised took place, led by his widow. Coretta scott king long stood by her husbands side. Now she walked in his place. Kings body was brought home to atlanta to his familys Ebenezer Baptist church. Among the mourners, richard nixon, soon to be elected president. Jacqulynn kennedy, widowed herself less than five years earlier and senator Robert Kennedy who would also be killed less than two months later. Dr. King died hoping america would heal its deep racial wounds. But for all the progress that hope remains unfulfilled. His personal legacy is secure but his great hope is still a distant goal. Free at last. Free at last. Thank god all mighty we are free at last. We may not be free at last 50 years later, but this is a changed country. And dr. Kings reputation will stand the test of history. Hes an iconic figure in our lives with his own memorial in washington, d. C. And by the way, last night i was in an integrated audience in jackson, mississippi, where they have dedicated a new Civil Rights Museum and we had a fullthroated discussion about where we need to go from here. Were not there yet, but perhaps one day we will be. Joe and mika . Nbcs tom brokaw, thank you very much. Tom sets up our next guest perfectly. Were going to bring in phil maker, peter koonhart and eddy glad jr. Joins us with a compelling new piece. Were going to try to get eddy to run for the senate in mississippi. Well see how that goes. Well be right back. Do not mistake serenity for weakness. Do not misjudge quiet tranquility with the power of 335 turbocharged horses lincoln mkx, more horsepower than the lexus rx350 and a quiet interior from which to admire them. The lincoln spring sales event is here. For a limited time get zero percent apr on the lincoln mkx. Hurry in today to your lincoln dealer. Is it possible to save from thousands of miles away . Yes. Thanks to the dedicated technicians at the american red cross. Who worked with vmware. To develop technologies to help redirect the flow of blood to the areas and people needing it most. Helping them recover. And refilling everyone with lifeaffirming hope. Magic cant make Digital Transformation happen. But we can. Thats the power of vmware, part of dell technologies. You know whats not awesome . Gigspeed internet. When only certain people can get it. Lets fix that. Lets give this guy gig really . And these kids, and these guys, him, ah. Oh hello. That lady, these houses yes, yes and yes. And dont forget about them. Uh huh, sure. Still yes xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. Now you can get it, too. Welcome to the party. Department of africanamerican studies at Princeton University eddy glad jr. Senator, good to see you this morning. Stop. Jeffrey goldberg is still with us. Peter kunhardt the director and executive producer of the new hbo documentary king in the wilderness which looks at the last three years of kings life as told through personal stories from his closest friends and advisers. Have a look. I do not know that everything that martin said or did he was quite prepared for. He had felt that in many ways dealing with the south was a more predictable outcome because in the north the racial hypocrisy was very subverted. It gave the appearance of being not like the south. The south was the center of all evil and the north was the place of a higher experience and dr. King said, no, that is not the case. Interesting. Peter, thanks so much for being with us. And that was a shock to many people as dr. King went north and a lot of northerners turned on him. I remember that horrid picture from 1976 when south boston was integrated of white student trying to drive an American Flag through the chest of a black student. And thats the resistance that dr. King his last three years were extraordinarily difficult, werent they . That kind of visceral hatred from north boston was throughout chicago. He admitted it was worse than any violence of hatred that he saw in the south. And it was multiplied times thousands. The crowds were unreal. And very much like today there were swastika signs all over the place. There were lynching signs. There was a hatred in the air that was palpable. And he thought his job was to wait, was he surprised by that in the north . He was surprised at the depth of the hate. He just thought it was he knew there was work to be done there, but he was surprised at the intensity. And his job was to scrape the surface, to irritate the surface because he knew this hatred would come bubbling up. Peter, we have we as americans have this ideal, this Martin Luther king. And it seems like his life ended for so Many Americans in 1963 with the remarkable speech and march on washington, and we look through, boy, when he walked through the valley alone, being attacked from the far right and from the far left, talk about just how difficult those final years were for dr. King. You know, were all taught about the i have a dream speech. Its been so overplayed that thats the image people have in their head. But as king himself said, it turned into a nightmare when he went beyond the civil rights limitations and went north to fight poverty, to fight fair housing and to turn on this make a statement against the war in vietnam. And once he came out on these bigger social issues, everyone turned against him. The media turned against him. His funders turned against him. Even his friend turned against him. So he was feeling very alone, depressed and isolated in those last years. I want to read something from eddys latest column in time magazine. Its titled the whitewashing and resurrection. Eddy writes near the end of his life, king confronted the uncertainty of his moral vision. He had underestimated how deeply the belief that white People Matter more than others was engrained in the habits of American Life. 50 years after kings assassination was so much unchanged, donald trump has ripped off the scab of the nations racial politics, emboldening a kind of overt racism that many convinced themselves had been banished. For White America to confront the reality of what is happening in the shadows an segregated spaces of this country, requires a maturity and honesty that would shatter our myth that equality has been a shared goal. It can happen. Were seeing seismic shifts. Black lives matter. Metoo and march for our lives are reconfiguring cultural norms and may signal a realignment of our politics. Eddy, theres a quote in the mountain top speech from april 3rd at the mason temple. He says, dr. King, all we say to america is be true to what you said on paper. Live up to those ideals that you wrote about in the constitution, in the bill of rights and the declaration of independence and all those things. I ask this question of Gene Robinson earlier, were dr. King alive today, what would he think of this moment in American Life . He would probably i would hate to try to put words in his mouth and i would think he might be speaking from the pulpit of riverside, right, peter . Really calling the nation to task to live up to its principles, pointing out the hypocrisy. Theres this wonderful moment, powerful, insightful moment in where do with goe from here published in 1967 where he says that in effect White America believes that racial inequalfy is really a loose expression for improvement, as if equality is a charitable enterprise, a philanthropic enterprise, something that white people give to others. King said it had been easy, relatively easy in the first part of the movement, but genuine equality was difficult because of what he thought of as the triple evils, racism, capitalism or poverty in this instance or militaryism. But he understood that he really miss he didnt quite grasp how deep racism was. The lack of humanity involved. Just think of this, joe, 12 years later in 1980 reagan is elected. Think about the debates around the holiday. Remember the newspapers, dr. Martin luther king think about the file that jessie helms was running around capitol hill with trying to show that dr. King was, in fact a trader. So king confronted a kind of resistance to his attempt to get america to live up to what it was to its principles on paper. Jeffrey goldberg, the atlantic put out a moving commemorative issue about dr. Kings life and legacy. Tell us about it. Well, the whole idea of that, joe, is was not to do an issue that sort of turns him into a plaster saint that ends the story in 1963. We wanted to look at through a journalistic lens the unfinished legacy particularly as it relates to the triple evils he identified, racism, poverty and militaryism. And so this is an issue filled with journalism about this moment. Its not just about king and what he achieved and what he didnt achieve because his life was cut short in the 1960s. But, you know, im so curious and if i can ask peter this question, you know, when he died this is one of the things we try to rez rukt in this issue, this idea that people would like to forget that Martin Luther king at his death was one of the more unpopular people in america. My question is was when it pivoted against vietnam, when he made militarism, was that the moment when a lot of white liberals and white democrats said, oh, this guy has gone too far. Lunch counters are fine. Dont question some of the great priorities of our democratic government . I think that was the largest piece of it, but it went before that when he came to fight for fair housing and when he went to the congress and asked for money to be spent. It was the first time he said money is going to have to be used to fix some of these evils. As soon as money came into the equation, opposition came. But the riverside speech where he came out against the war was when the media dropped him, when his Close Friends dropped him, when his financial supporters dropped him and he was just he was already going through a depression. And he was alone and extremely depressed at the end of his life. Eddy, you wrote about Martin Luther kings depression in your column. Right. And how he was in despair at the end of his life because he was worried that racism was something that was just so intractable in american society. Right. And today had he lived, what do you think he would see as the most important policy priority, the most important policy changes that could be made to actually further racial equality in the country . And i hate trying to anticipate what dr. King would say. Of course. But he obviously would have to be have to address income inequality. He would obviously have to address policing in america, the cars roll state. The fact that weve seen since 68 a kind of tripling of the incarceration of black folk. He would have to address the fact that the projected number that by 2053 the Median Income of black households will be zero, zero. In 1968 the Median Income for black households was zero. Right . He would have to address the fact that our schools are as segregated today as they were in the 1960s. Right . We can go on and on. Theres a speech he gave in stanford in 1967 where he makes the pivot to genuine inequality and he talks about this is what were facing now and talks about housing, unemployment, policing and the like, but then he says, what ive come to learn and said it in this very pained way, that some people who supported the movement in the south were more were more upset by the brutality of bull conner than they were about the brutality of segregation. And so there was a sense in which king understood that what i call the value gap at the heart of the country. Theres a line that James Baldwin uses. Im trying to run for the senate, i dont want to go too much. Thats a joke. Go on and on. Theres a line that James Baldwin used that king was kind of revolving around, right, thinking about. He says excuse my language, he says we invented the n word to justify the crime. We had to invent it in order to justify the crime. And until we ask ourselves the question, why did we need the n word in the first place we will find ourselves over and over again on this racial hamster wheel. And king was grappling with that. Along those lines, peter, i just saw an article this week that was distressing, so distressing that as eddy said theres always been income inequality between black americans and White Americans. I read about a study this week that Shows Parents that are well off and have black children, their children are more likely to lose income across their life and actually lose that wealth than white students. So, its not just about what home youre born into. It is about the color of your skin still in america. It is. The process of making this film has made me less encouraged as opposed to more encouraged. While king would have pushed for hope and pushing forward always to make progress, i came to realize how engrained this country is on the race issue. How much deeper, how much meaner, how much hate there is there. And it seems like none of the Simple Solutions that are in place are going to do anything about it. So im a little grim. The new hbo documentary is king in the wilderness peter kunhardt, thank you very much. Thanks peter. Coming up ford down. Gm down. Boeing down. U. S. Markets are getting battered right now after china retaliates against the u. S. , announcing new tariffs overnight. Morning joe is back in a moment. Hes playno, with us. Hes trying to tell us something. Lets see what forensics thinks. Sorry im late. What did i miss . Wanna get away . Now you can with southwest fares as low as 49 dollars oneway. Yes to low fares with nothing to hide. Thats transfarency. When did you see the sign . When i needed to jumpstart sales. Build attendance for an event. Help people find their way. Fastsigns designed new directional signage. And got them back on track. Get started at fastsigns. Com. 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Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Join over 250,000 people who have chosen humira. Ask your dermatologist about humira go. Jeffrey, u. S. Stock futures getting pounded right now because President Trumps trade war on china isnt quite as easy as he thought it was going to be. What can we look forward to as china strikes back . You know, specifically on the trade war im interested in what the soybean farmers have to say. China is very smart about this. Theyre going after soybean growers across the midwest, essentially, hardcore trump land. So im very curious about that. The larger point here is that this week has been very interesting in that trump has shown himself once again, i think, to be a remarkably consistent thinker on a set of subjects. Were back to a kind of q uras isensationalism, protectionism, that he wants to put the military on the border. Hes talking about getting ripped off by nato, getting ripped off by the chinese. Hes being, relatively speaking, soft on russia, Still Holding out hope that his great ally is going to be Vladimir Putin. Were in the campaign. And the big question for a lot of us in washington, right, is whether there is a learning curve, whether over the last months and year and a half or so hes learned much about Foreign Policy, National Security policy, trade policy. This week is sort of a jeffrey, it appears things are getting worse even yesterday. I was looking at the president talking about nato and he said, is there not anyone in the white house that can explain to this poor man, this confused man, that our allies do not contribute billions of dollars to nato . He still doesnt get that. You know, there are people in the white house who can still, even with mcmasters absence, with tillerson gone, there are p. M. People in the white house. Its not a matter of explaining it, its whether theres somebody to listen. Congratulations on your latest issue on the life and legacy of Martin Luther king. Coming up, well have more on the tariff stories. President trump tweets, trying to calm investors. Lots of luck with that. Plus, major developments in the russia investigation. The message being sent after the first prison sentence in the mueller probe. Morning joe is coming right back and senator eddie gloud will be with us. Dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance. Through the Tuition Assistance program, every day mcdonalds helps more people go to college. Its part of our commitment to being americas best first job. Only tylenol® rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. They release medicine fast, for fast pain relief. Tylenol® was a success for lastchoicehotels. Comign badda book. Badda boom. This year, were taking it up a notch. So in this commercial we see two travelers at a comfort inn with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, wow, maybe ill glow too if i book direct at choicehotels. Com. Who glows . Just say, badda book. Badda boom. Nobody glows. He gets it. Always the lowest price, guaranteed. Book now at choicehotels. Com you take a look at the post office and the post office is losing billions of dollars, and the taxpayers are paying for that money because it delivers packages for amazon at a very below cost, and thats not fair to the United States, its not fair to our taxpayers, and amazon has the money to pay the fair rate at the post office, which would be much more than theyre paying right now. We will have, as of three months ago, 7 trillion in the middle east over the last 17 years. We get nothing, nothing out of it. For years i said keep the oil. I was always saying keep the oil. We didnt keep the oil. Who kept the oil . Isis got the oil. We should have kept the oil then. We didnt keep the oil. Nato was delinquent. They were not paying their bills. They were not paying a lot of states, as we discussed. They were not paying what they should be paying. Since i came in, many, many billions of dollars additional have been paid by countries that werent paying and now theyre paying. And they will have to pay more, frankly. Pick a reporter, please. You can pick a reporter. A baltic reporter, ideally. Real news, not fake news. Go ahead. Go ahead, pick mr. President , pick a reporter from the baltics. Not the same man, he was very tough. Tell us about Stormy Daniels disparaging american reporters in front of the Foreign Press while hammering Campaign Talking Points from three years ago. And that was the part that was slightly pretty. He also continued to lie about amazon, apparently angry that the man who runs it also owns the Washington Post. Meanwhile, just this morning, china strikes back hard in a brewing trade war which the president claimed would be easy to win. Yeah, but the future is looking very grim right now, and, again, theres nothing easy about it. What is easy, though, is this calling out the lies, the president s lies, and theres no other word for it. I know that journalists and headlined writers have been trying to figure out exactly what to call what hes doing, but willie, lets go to amazon for a second. Chet smith and john roberts and the good people over at fox news in the afternoon went over this yesterday, a lot of other reporters did, too. But shep really broke it down, which is, first of all, donald trump lying about amazon by saying that the post office is losing money. Well, as shep pointed out over at fox news, actually, the post office is gaining money from this. Secondly, donald trump lies and says that the taxpayers are having to foot the bill for this socalled subsidy to amazon. Com. Shep smith points out thats a lie. The post offices own material says thats a lie, that operations are not paid for by the taxpayers. And finally, the one that shows just how stupid the president of the United States is or how stupid he believes we are, was when he said that what is it that we lose 1. 47 on every package sent by amazon. Thats the standard rate for bulk shippers. Thats the standard rate. Ill be oprah. Thats the standard rate for you and you and you and you and you and you and everybody that im looking at in romper room land. I see ibm and i see your business. Willie, thats everybodys rate. So here you have i mean, the u. S. Chamber of congress is coming out saying stop attacking american businesses. Here hes picking out one of the most innovative american businesses, a great employer popular with the public, by the way. And really popular with the public. Its how so many of us do Christmas Shopping now, easter shopping, birthday, day in and day out shopping. But the president , he is a hack on the internet thats a trump a apologist, an autocrat, seeking out a prized business because he doesnt like the owner. I love his sudden interest in the u. S. Postal service, by the way. Hes so concerned about problems at the post office suddenly when amazon has something to do with it. Why is he doing this . Its all personal. As is everything with donald trump, its all personal. If you want to take your lying and falsehood thing a step further, he believes since jeff bezos owns the Washington Post, and its because he doesnt like the coverage hes getting. So hes attacking a business that makes tons of money, a business that employs tons of people and its all based on falsehoods. We have Washington Post Eugene Robinson and columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius as well. This amazon story again, we cant say enough. He goes into the white house and hes talking to reporters. Everything he says is not wrong, its a flat out lie. Its extraordinary. Just to fill in a couple points, but i think you guys covered it pretty well. First of all, if amazon were not paying enough to the post office, the post office can raise its rates. Amazon doesnt decide what to pay the post office, the post office decides what to charge amazon. They have worked out a deal. Amazon is actually helping out the post office because the post office is declining in first class mail. We dont deliver mail anymore. The other thing thats going on in trumps mind from what you read and hear is his real estate buddies are unhappy about amazon because of what its doing to conventional real estate, retailers in malls and things like that. So you have a situation where trump is trying to help, in effect, another constituency of his, which is the real estate community. But again, hes trying to help by lying. Another area where he continues to lie, and you just wonder, David Ignatius again, its not shading the truth, its just an out and out lie he continues to say that nato coffers have been filled with billions and billions of dollars since hes become president , that, boy, the money is just pouring into nato. Again, hes either completely ignorant of the way nato has been run since the 1940s, or else hes just lying. I thought that was one of the hard parts of watching his performance with the three baltic president s who were visiting. These were people who were literally on the front lines dealing with russia. Trump was boasting about how nobody has been tougher on russia than he has at the very time that he seems to be inviting Vladimir Putin to come visit him at the white house. And as you say, taking credit for natos successes at a time when he is seen generally as kind of a divisive leader of this alliance. Yes, its true, by emphasizing people paying their fair share, i think he has brought some pressure to increased contributions from some countries, and we should give him credit for that. But that was yet another moment of trump in this sort of boastful way trying to take credit for something that really is undeserved. It seems everyone is more incredulous about this than, i think as the Washington Post once did some research, the five lies a day the president will tell over time or on twitter. Gene robinson, i guess im left with this question that some are asking. Is he losing it . I was just thinking, we seem to be at the intersection of banality and senility. If it were a ven diagram, this would be the section that will overlap. A lot of things hes saying these days, leaving aside for a second the fact that its personally motivated vitriol, its lies concocted to damage someone he thinks is an enemy. It also makes no sense. It simply makes no sense. It has to assume that people have no idea how nato works or have no idea how business works. Steve ratner knows a whole lot more about business than i do, but i assume if the post office wanted to charge amazon a whole lot more money for shipping packages, amazon would take its business elsewhere. And then the post office wouldnt have that business, and in fact, a whole lot of people would probably lose their jobs. But what do i know . He seems not to understand fundamentals of how the world works sometimes, and its all colored by this ire, this anger, this incoherent rage at anybody who he thinks is an opponent. Just how clearly these statements that hes rattling off are lies. And, of course, hes been lying every day, and you can look at it in the Washington Post or other newspapers that document this. But on these very obvious lies, there is no shading, there is no question. You could go into any court in this land and you could if it were relevant to your case get judicial notice. Have the judge say give you judicial notice that, one, amazon doesnt get a discount rate, it gets the same bulk rate that everybody else in america gets. Two, u. S. Taxpayers do not subsidize a special rate for amazon. In fact, u. S. Taxpayers dont even pay for the actual operations of the post office. And three, nato coffers have not been swollen by billions of dollars coming from nato Member States contributing to nato, because thats not the way it works. And anybody taking a firstyear class on european history or European Political Science would know thats not the way it works. We are left again asking, is the president ignorant or is he just out and outlying again, telling a lie and ill just say it one of the things that bugged me about bill clinton so much was he would get on tv and he would lie. He knew he was lying, we knew he was lying, everybody in the administration knew he was lying. Donald trump does that every single day. Still ahead on morning joe. When were behind in every single country, trade wars arent so bad. Do you understand what i mean by that . When were down by 40 billion, 60 billion, 100 billion, the trade war hurts them. It doesnt hurt us. Well see what happens. Four weeks ago, President Trump all but invited a trade war with china. China just hit back. Well talk about that countrys new tariffs on American Products. Thats next on morning joe. Its a lot easier to make decisions when you know what comes next. If you move your old 401 k to a fidelity ira, we make sure youre in the loop at every step from the moment you decide to move your money to the instant your new retirement account is funded. Oh and at fidelity, youll see how all your investments are working together. Because when you know where you stand, things are just clearer. Just remember what i said about a little bit o soul were on a mission to show drip coffee drinkers, its time to wake up to keurig. Wakey wakey rise and shine oh my gosh how are you . Well watch this. I pop that in there. Press brew. Thats it. So rich. I love it. Thats why you should be a keurig man fullbodied. Are you sure youre describing the coffee and not me . You know whats not awesome . Gigspeed internet. Fullbodied. When only certain people can get it. Lets fix that. Lets give this guy gig really . And these kids, and these guys, him, ah. Oh hello. That lady, these houses yes, yes and yes. And dont forget about them. Uh huh, sure. Still yes xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. Now you can get it, too. Welcome to the party. The Trump Administration proposed 25 tariffs on 50 billion on china imports, mainly tech equipment. More than 1300 products are flat screen tvs, medical devices, Aircraft Parts so if youre at home, donald trump, because of a very hes had this twitch for about 40 years, a twitch born of ignorance. The cost of your flat screen tvs are going up. The cost of your medical devices are going up. Aircraft parts will go up. So the cost of flying on airplanes will go up. The cost of batteries will go up. The cost of pork will go up. You name it, go across the board, donald trump and the trump tariff tax is going to impact you and going to impact your family when you go its the ttt. When you go to walmart, when you go to target, when you go to the grocery store, its going to impact you all across the board. Can we just point out the first item in that list, soybeans . That really hits a lot of states that donald trump won. It hits families like mine. Really, this is not what the american Agriculture Sector needs right now. Farmers in iowa are getting pounded by this trade war in china. China said its only right to retaliate. Within the last few hours china announced 25 of tariffs on things like soybeans and Aircraft Parts. The president thinks the country is in a good place. I have the most respect for president xi. Two of the most incredible days of my life were spent in china. Many of you were with me. He is a tremendous person. But we have a problem with china. Theyve created a trade deficit, and i really blame our representatives, and frankly, our preceding president s for this. So well be working with china, well be negotiating with china. Again, our relationship is very good with china and we intend to keep it that way. Acting secretary of state John Sullivan is scheduled to meet with the Chinese Ambassador at the state department this afternoon. Meanwhile, data analyzed by the Brookings Institution finds that among the tariffs china announced on monday, the majority of the Industries Jobs are mostly farming and secondary manufacturing. Only in wineries do counties have most jobs. Its just American Consumers and American Farmers or anybody who buys tvs or you name it that he must not like, because theyre going to be punished by this. Its amazing that its playing out exactly how everyone predicted it would play out. Every economist knew it, Steven Ratner knew it. First it was japan in the 1980s, now its china. This is what happens when you impose tariffs against a power. They impose them back. And steve, to what benefit of the American Economy . Who is this helping . Zero benefit and actually a detriment in the sense that trade is good for the world as a general matter. Its good for america as a general matter. Its part of why we have a successful economy. This is really kind of an opening salvo, if you will. In itself its not going to bring down the economy, but you see the reaction of the stock market this morning, and its simply a reflection of what the stock market thinks is going to happen to our economy and overall business if this trade war really escalates. Coming up on morning joe the president talks about putting troops on the southern border while pulling them out of syria. We have thoughts on both ideas. Thats next, on morning joe. So, my portfolio did pretty well last year. Thats great. But the market was up nearly twice as much. 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Act now to take advantage of commissionfree trades for 90 days, plus get up to an 800 cash bonus when you open and fund a new account. When i was too busy with the kids to get a repair estimate. I just snapped a photo and got an estimate in 24 hours. My Insurance Company definitely doesnt have that. You can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™ Liberty Mutual insurance. You know whats not awesome . Gigspeed internet. When only certain people can get it. Lets fix that. Lets give this guy gig really . And these kids, and these guys, him, ah. Oh hello. That lady, these houses yes, yes and yes. And dont forget about them. Uh huh, sure. Still yes xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. Now you can get it, too. Welcome to the party. Joining us now, former nato supreme allied commander, now the dean of the Fletcher School of law and diplomacy at tufts university, retired fourstar admiral. He is chief analyst for nbc news and msnbc. Admiral, troops to the border. Go. Bad idea. Lets think about this for a minute. We all want to control the border, but throwing the u. S. Military at the problem is taking the wrong tool to the operation. Our troops are trained in the application of lethal force. They are not trained in law enforcement. They are going to be very expensive to move down to that border region. Youre going to try and distribute them all along that border. Its just a very bad idea in every dimension. It kind of fails the common sense check, and it also kind of fails the symbolic check. It looks to the latin american, the caribbean, that were militarizing our border. What we ought to do is give the resources to the department of Homeland Security, not to build a 30foothigh wall. That wont work, either. We should be creating a border with Artificial Intelligence, looking at patterns of movement, unmanned vehicles, some physical structures, enhanced technique all along that border. Thats the right way to go, joe, not throwing troops at the problem. Youre right in bloomberg about the concept of the wall itself and make those points. The bigger question is, politically, joe, have republicans been sort of helping him have his money for his wall just to see if they can get Something Back for him . Meanwhile this concept keeps going down the road and becoming a reality. What have republicans gotten back from this president . Admiral, it doesnt seem republicans or democrats want this wall, because like you, they understand. General kelly said it when he was being confirmed heading the department of Homeland Security. He actually laid out the same exact approach that you laid out. A few physical structures here and there but rely on Artificial Intelligence to figure out where the movement is going, drones. A lot of different ways you do this that actually may not be cheaper than if you build an 18th century structure. It would be more effective. Indeed it would, and think about it this way. You can build a big, beautiful wall 30 feet high, 2,000 miles long media structure check, but heres the news flash, joe, and i know this because im an admiral. Right to the left of the wall is an ocean. If people want to go around the wall at sea, they will. A beautiful ocean, by the way. A big, beautiful ocean and a pretty nice one over on your side, joe, on the gulf coast. Admiral, youve been a com t combatant commander, and i want to know if youre concerned that the president s comments are leading to an erosion of the situation on the ground for our military personnel and our allies in Eastern Syria where theyre exposed, where theyve had a lot of success. Is that success being squandered by the president s comments . I think it is. And as i speak with senior military, people are very concerned also about the flip dropping of this just in a press conference not thought through. That just undermines the ability of the military on the ground to undercut the tactical operation. So thats very concerning, david. But as you know, there is a strategic piece to this, too, so when the crown prince of saudi arabia or the Prime Minister of israel hear those comments, think about their reaction as theyre trying to structure a gradual approach between israel and the Sunni Arab States and stand against iran. So weve got the tactical component that you mentioned correctly, david, and then it also undermines what we need to be doing there strategically in a very dramatic way. So i would say a bad day for u. S. Interests in the middle east when that comment just kind of rolled out. Coming up on morning joe, our next guest said donald trump wasnt a target for russia but rather a vehicle to infiltrate and influence america. An active measure, if you watch homeland. And in the future president , Vladimir Putin found a golden opportunity. Special agent clint watts joins us with his new column, next on morning joe. Nothing says spring like fresh flowers, so lets promote our spring travel deal on choicehotels. Com like this. sneeze earn one free night when you stay just twice this spring. Allergies. Or, badda book. Badda boom. Book now at choicehotels. Com. Whoamike and jen doyle . Than i thought. Yeah. Time for medicare, huh. I have no idea how were going to get through this. Follow me. Choosing a plan can be supercomplicated. But it doesnt have to be. Unitedhealthcare can guide you through the confusion, with helpful people, tools and plans. Including the only plans with the aarp name. Well that wasnt so bad at all. Thats how we like it. Aarp medicare plans, from unitedhealthcare. This is a story about mail and packages. And its also a story about people. 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Theres a press conference at which trump made even though he is in deep in the middle of this russia collusiabolugia right now. We want to be getting along with russia. Getting along with russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. Now, maybe we will and maybe we wont. And probably nobody has been tougher to russia than donald trump. What a country, huh . Yesterday we saw the first now to serious news. The first prison sentence handed down in relation to special counsels Robert Muellers russia investigation. A judge handed down jail time to an attorney who misled investigators. Alex van der zwaan received a 30day prison sentence, 20,000 in fines and two months upon release. It also connected rick gates, Paul Manafort and an unnamed russian intel officer. In a brief statement, the dutchborn lawyer said, what i did was wrong. I apologize to the court, my wife and my family. s lees jordan, eddie gloud jr. Back with us and msnbc contribute tore clint watts. In his new piece in the New York Times, the russians saw donald trump as the perfect vessel for their secret campaign in the west. Clint watts said this. The revelations from Robert Muellers indictments have provided so much clarity on how russia interfered in our democracy. Yet americans seem more confused about the question of russia. That is, in a way, by design, russias design. In trump and his campaign, mr. Putin spotted a golden opportunity. An easily ingratiated celebrity motivated by fame and fortune, a Foreign Policy novice surrounded by unscreened opportunists open to manipulation and unaware of russias long run game of s subversion. They dont know whats coming. In the context of russian espionage, they look for two people. Fellow travelers or people who think like the kremlin but wittingly go along and then they look for willing idiots. These are terms the russians use for that. Ironically, willie, thats the term that a lot of conservatives always use towards liberals. That would feed into the russian line. If Ronald Reagan were trying to deploy missiles to west germany, and you would have millions of people going out in the streets, burning American Flags and protesting against us, conservatives would call those people useful idiots. Now our president is considered a useful idiot for the russians. You need the vessel but you also need the people to get to the vessel, to control the vessel. In the case like President Trump, did russia look to people like manafort and rick gates as those people . The thing about russia is theyre always looking for levers and always developing levers. A business opportunity, a media person, a military alliance develop those levers so when something comes unseen, like President Trumps campaign, and you want to take down hillary clinton, you then hit all avenues of approach. Its not just the russians that do this, its the chinese, the israelis and the americans. We all try to do this, right . It all comes down to methods. The degree the russians will go with it is we will hack into thousands of peoples accounts and dump them out on the internet. We might go to the u. K. And poison somebody who is a former member of our Intelligence Service. And they may do much mo more coercive things like holding debts that you have. This is a big component of the manafortgates investigation. I hate to just talk about homeland. I apologize. Im going to say this really quickly. Two things. First, manny tempkin is coming in. Is that right . Towards the end of the month. I feel amika will lead him astray. Shes in love with him. Stop. But there was, again, just for homeland, its always so timely. There was a chilling moment when mika was catching up. I say the same about the kgb hand. What were they complaining about . Russia killing somebody on foreign soil. And the old guard kgb agent said, we dont do that. And we just sat there, just chilled, that homeland once again predicted what was going to happen in the future. And they did. The old kgb as opposed to what we talk about now, which is the fsb, the svr, they play by a different rule book. Its tit for tat, its measured, im not going to do this because youll do it to me. The two things putins new Intelligence Service done is, one, cyberspace, and two, organized crime, the level they put criminal organizations. They have so much to go on now and theyre so much more successful now because they dont limit restriction. The russians say post91, the collapse of the soviet union. If people were trying to get into Atlantic City when casinos were opening up, would the russians be interested in getting the russian mob in to casinos in Atlantic City . Sure. They would look for any of these avenues because part of it is, for the actual organized criminals, they need to get their money out of the russian Banking System as much as possible. Infrastructure is huge purchases. But to the same point, any way to develop business and develop end roads. The government doesnt say go do this crime there, but they dont say, go back to russia. Atlantic city would seem like a great opportunity back when that took place for the russian mob to go in and get a footprint. Exactly. I wonder if they did. What if they tried to and ran across anybody that was trying to do it . Im just curious. Im curious about these things. I love homeland, so i got these questions. The next episode, Atlantic City. By the way, can i just say, damian lewis, billions. Wow. Yes, theres that. I dont watch that. This just in. The house energy and Commerce Committee announced this morning that facebooks Ceo Mark Zuckerberg will appear in front of the panel exactly one week from today. Zuckerberg has been under fire for his response to the Cambridge Analytica scandal. The cambridge chairman said the hearing will be an important opportunity for america to understand what happens to consumers data on line. There will be a lot of questions about whether or not they can fix the problem as well, elise. It might not go that well for mark zuckerberg. If you watch his recent round of interviews, its been less than inspiring that facebook is actually addressing the numerous privacy violations that they should be dealing with. He comes across as so scared to be interviewed that hopefully hell fare better on the hill. Facebook says theyre going to let the people whose data was harvested, breached, violated know who they are, and im not sure what happens after that. They cant, for quite some time for a number of complicated reasons, but im just interested in how they make that right with those what would you call them, consumers . Victims. Members of the community. Victims. Victims, yeah. Dont you think so . I really thats part of the equation i dont understand, because ill tell you, if it was me, i would be very, very, very concerned. Let me ask clint another question that has nothing to do with television. Yesterday i was reading the axios report that Foreign Countries can now eavesdrop. We think were making a phone call that bounces off a tower and they can zone in to it. People in militaryrelated fields have told me this for years, that this is nothing but a huge microphone for russia, for china, for at times the american government, and now we found out corporations, international corporations. Are we are these smartphones nothing more than the greatest threat to our privacy and anything you can ever think of . Yes. Part of the reason why if you remember, we got upset about the snowden disclosures. Really, all your data is held in eight or nine places around the world. Either the federal government can go to it or you can be intercepted because youre connected to an internet or a telephone pole somewhere all the time. Those attacks are called man in the middle attacks. You think youre connecting to a cell phone tower, and really someone between you and the tower has done that. Same with wifi, like if you go into a coffee shop. Its one of the best ways to get into someones phone. What do you say so americans . I hear some people say they never have their phones in their bedrooms, theyre always careful what theyre saying. What would you recommend . You need to know what the apps on your phone do not allow with your information. Do they allow access to your photos, your camera . Contacts. Contacts is huge. If i have your contacts, i can make so many tremendous associations. The other thing is using a vpn if youre connected to the internet which secures your connection to the internet, and the last thing is encrypted phone calls. It makes it much more difficult to intercept those. If you see popups that say, this is a wifi phone call, do you want to join . Dont do that. If you see the simpler networks, thats another thing. Wow. In the last decade we moved 100 miles an hour in technology and offered everything we have to these companies, all our personal data. Our photographs are up in the cloud, our phone calls are all out there, and now all of a sudden were slamming on the brakes and saying, whoa. I didnt realize what we were getting into. I said it before, conversations i have had in my home that i have never done a search on, i get the most astounding example was, and ive said this before on the air, i had to go to run. Ive never run. I said, im an old guy, im over 50, i want to run and run under nineminute miles. So i started doing it. And i started to do that. The second i started to do that by wathe way, i have an old treadmill. Which mika wants to throw away because she thinks im old and will pass out. The only way anyone would know that i was running under a nineminute mile is if i say, what are you running . Under eight and a half minute miles. Every article i read started showing an ad that said, are you over 50 and run under a nineminute mile . If so, you can qualify for this insurance discount. You did one thing. You sent a text message to somebody who said, hey, im going for a run. No, i didnt. I was so embarrassed being a big lunk that i never told anybody. I promise it was only verbal. Whats that gene hackman movie . Enemy of the state. It drew our attention to this stuff. How can this stuff be deployed . We already saw it with the russians and interfering with our election. What does this streaming information need for the kind of sdi decisions were making . Great point. Were sitting here worrying about the russians. I would just politely say its not the russians that we need to worry about listening in to our private conversations as much as it is companys apps, et cetera, et cetera, fill in the blank. Our kids are just experimenting with this and my wife says, nothing is private. Anything you put on the internet will show up one day. If you put a picture up somewhere, even if you think its private, its out there somewhere and somebody else can see it. Clint . The biggest vulnerability for every individual is to themselves. They have to understand what this does. The ease of use has made this we never really understand what were doing on our phone and who can access it. This week im actually trading in my phone and im going to the Michael Douglas phone on wall street. The brick. Up next, new comments this morning from commerce secretary wilbur ross on the concerns of a trade war with china comparing it to a shooting war. Thank you, wilbur. Thats the way to calm people down. 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Fda approved for over 15 years. Ask about enbrel. Are finding themselves morin a chevroletple for the first time. Trying something new can be exciting. Empowering. Downright exhilarating. See for yourself why chevrolet is the most awarded and Fastest Growing brand, the last four years overall. Switch into a new chevy now. Get 20 below msrp on all cruze and malibu lt models. Thats over fifty four hundred dollars on this chevy malibu. Find new roads at your local chevy dealer. Reverend al sharpton was on with us earlier this morning as we mark the 50th anniversary of Martin Luther king jr. s assassination. Reverend al recently sat down with dr. Kings oldest son, Martin Luther king iii, along with carrie kennedy, the daughter of the late robert f. Kennedy, to discuss how Martin Luther kings death affected not only the nation but his family, and why his son believes his father was killed. Lets take a look. When i look at this picture of your father fixing your tie, and i look at pictures of Robert Kennedy and his family, this is yalls dad. How do you deal with the pain every day of having to relive it . It really was about how mother prepared us from a grounding and foundational standpoint. When dad died, i dont remember her saying your father has been killed. She said your father will no longer be with us, he has gone home to live with god. And when gods servants serve him well, god brings them home to rest. Thats how she broke the news. Obviously that was the most traumatic experience i as a child would go through, the loss is incomprehensible. While i realized that mom lost a husband and we lost a father that could never, ever be replaced, i learned and realized that the nation gleaned a message about a movement that perhaps transformed ultimately the world. When martins dad died, my father was campaigning in indiana. 125 cities across our country started to burn that night. In response, the white city fathers across the country said, now we dont have to do anything more with the Civil Rights Movement or with africanamericans because look at what theyre doing to our cities, theyve turned to violence, were done. My fathers response to that was, he was asked by many of those, the africanamerican civil rights leadership at the time to give a speech. Its called the mindless menace of violence speech, in which he said to the city fathers, you have created and benefitted from a system of violence that led to the violence in the cities. Dad was hated in 1966 through 68. I mean, his Approval Rating was maybe less than 20 . People think, oh, everybody loved dr. King. Thats just not true, the last year. Why . He was dealing with a radical agenda. He was talking about a radical redistribution of wealth and resources. He was talking about why the vietnam war was immoral. That means president johnson personally took it that he was criticizing him. Daddy never criticized individuals. But he thought the system needed to be addressed. As soon as he was killed, all of a sudden now Everybody Loves him, when he could not speak and defend himself and say those things. He was killed not because he was talking about folks in the front of lunch counters. He was killed because he was talking about a radical redistribution of wealth. Were going to turn back now to the trade war with china that President Trump seems to have ignited. The president went on twitter this morning to declare, quote, we are not in a trade war with china. Yes, we are. But commerce secretary wilbur ross shrugged off the retaliatory tariffs on 50 billion of American Products like soybeans and cars. Take a look. Think about it. Even shooting wars end with negotiations. Somebody sends a treaty with someone else, it has whatever terms it has. So it wouldnt be surprising at all if the net outcome of all of this is some sort of a negotiation. Eddie, shooting wars. So he knows its a war. The markets know its a war. And a lot of americans are going to lose a lot of money in their retirement plans today, most likely. Absolutely. Whats interesting about secretary rosss comments, shooting wars have their casualties, folks who die, harm thats done. It seems not to have entered his imagination. This is not my wheelhouse. I understand the basics of it. Im wondering, given all this debt were piling up if china decides not to buy any more of it as a part of this particular war, what will happen . An interesting question. We end where we began this morning, you and i asking where are our conservative friends, where are the free traders, where are the people who dont want an autocrat in training to be able to reach out from the centralized state and use his bully pulpit to crush one of americas most innovative Companies Just because he doesnt like that company . Isnt this, again, what hayek and friedman and buckley warned us about for years . Well, if republicans and conservatives arent going to stand on principles of free trade, i wonder if elected republicans are at least going to respond if their constituents are the ones being targeted by these tariffs. You look at the way china is doing this, and what theyre proposing is really going to hit trump country, and theyre being smart about it and theyre targeting it. I do not feel that what the United States has done, what donald trump has proposed, is nearly as thoughtful or targeted. To your point, its very interesti interesting, china is being very smart about this, proposed tariffs to try to end the american proposed tariffs. The ambassador to china, terry branstead, former governor of the state of iowa, he represents a lot of people who grow soybeans. The targeted soybean tariffs that look at farmers will turn these farmers against donald trump and china hopes theyll put enough pressure on the white house to prevent them from coming to pass, an interesting strategic play by china. Wow. Do you want to do the fact check . Can we just i wish like we had a queen that could knight people, because if so i would want shep smith to be knighted. Yes. And ole miss, a proud, proud graduate. Mississippi proud. Meridian right here. Come on. So really quickly, here is shep smiths fact check. Take a look. A report just came out, they said 1. 47, i believe, or about that, for every time they deliver a package, the United States government, meaning the post office loses 1. 47. So amazon is going to have to pay much more money to the post office. The Postal Services own numbers show it makes money by delivering packages for amazon and other companies. As for taxpayers, the post offices own website points out, and i quote, the Postal Service receives no tax dollars for operating expenses. None. And that reference to 1. 47 that the president came up with there . A citigroup city last year showed on average the Postal Service was charging 1. 46 below market rates for package delivery. But our researchers point out if that discount exists, its not just for amazon. Its a bulk rate discount. Back to john roberts. There is a great deal of confusion or something here regarding amazon and the post office because none of that was true. Shep does the magnolia state proud. Yeah, i mean maybe the president might hear this, because he saw it on fox. The irony of this whole thing is that ecommerce, i. E. Amazon, is the lone bright spot at the post office. Their problems have to do with pensions and people not mailing letters anymore. Its not amazon. No. And this is what autocrats do across the globe. They try to crush the truth. Companies and members of the press. Autocrats that have never been to the post office, probably. I mean, donald trump said, oh, lets send couriers, like we want the pony express. Thats crazy. That does not it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage. Are you excited about just dont talk about that. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. Thanks, mika, thank you, joe. Hi there, im Stephanie Ruhle with breaking news this morning. I know what im doing, you are too, watching wall street. China strikes back hard with proposed tariffs on 50 billion of u. S. Goods sparking new fears of an allout trade war. Disturbing new details in the shooting at youtube headquarters at california. Police say the suspect may have been angry at the video site for filtering her content. This morning Silicon Valley is on edge. Is it feels like all the employees were victims of