Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20111121

wow, what a way to start the week. >> good advice for all of us. >> seriously. welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, november 21st. oh, my gosh, is this thanksgiving week? are we getting ready? yes, with us onset, senior political analyst mark haleprin. national affairs editor, john heilemann. hi, john. >> hi. >> and director of the earth institute, jeffrey sachs. >> disgusting. >> disgusting. >> absolutely disgusting. no sense of any meaning in all of this. absolutely revolting, actually. and especially when what they're protesting against is the incredible abuse of power, the criminality on wall street and so forth that he, yes, taking his millions of dollars, it's shocking. >> someone needs a bath, and i don't think it's the people from occupy wall street. that's all i'm going to say. i got nothing else. i'm so disgusted by that that something horrible's going -- those are my belts, i'm sorry. i was having trouble dressing this morning. >> i sort of like that. bringing out discarded pieces of clothing. >> i'm sorry. i'm sorry. it's monday and -- >> special. >> i -- i -- am i alone here? am i overreacting? i'm sickened by that. >> the republican party needs to be politically smart to try to capture some of the sentiment there that rails against a lot of what they should be against too. >> so it's fair to say he's in the 1%, correct? >> yeah. >> fannie mae put him there all by themselves. >> he's telling the 99% to take a bath and get a job. really? really? i wonder how they do that right now. how given the state of this country how anyone's supposed to try and just get a job and take a bath. who is this man? who does he think he is? and why is he surging in the polls? i don't get it. >> to mark's point, it is amazing. you would have thought that there is actually common cause in some cases ideologically and temperamentally between the tea party and wall street, there's some temperamental. and there are people in the tea party who are as angry at the banks, it is really interesting that no republican has tried to seize on this. not necessarily embracing the protesters in terms of who they are, but trying to take this issue. it's kind of amazing. >> actually, one republican has talked about this issue and understood and had sympathy with the concept. jon huntsman who talks about the concept of it and what's perhaps driving the anger and then goes on to what he thinks he should do to fix the problem or the disparity in this country, but no one's listening to him and i wonder why. in some ways he makes sense and can capture what should be understood about occupy wall street. there are some crazies in the street getting their pictures in the paper, and that's not the best representation. but the message they stand for and then to hear newt gingrich standing on literally his high horse after taking advantage of the system, cashing in on it, being the biggest literally the biggest hypocrite in the republican field probably in politics today, the biggest hypocrite, and then to cast dispersions and to speak down to these people as if they should be flicked away. it's disgusting. it's absolutely disgusting. it's a very angry way to start the show. i'm extremely sorry. but it's the first time i've seen that. and it literally made my skin crawl. i cannot believe he resinates. >> it played pretty well -- >> we know he's a cynical politician if nothing else. who is he talking to when he says that? >> the republican party has decided rather than to in any way embrace this movement or recognize it the way the democratic party did to some extent with the tea party is just using occupy wall street as another way to whip up sentiment against the left and against president obama. it played well in the room. those were iowa activists who helped determine who the republicans put forward. they loved that line. >> this is what the room wants. this is what the base wants? what are you telling me? >> the republican party has historically, you know, hippie punching is a strategy. this was a strategy that richard nixon employed in 1968. the silent majority was about attacking the left for having been taken over by the 1960s version of this same movement. and it worked electorally for richard nixon then. it was just as morally despec l despicable. >> remember, newt blamed the democratic party for susan smith drowning her children in south carolina. he's done this for a long time. >> i would argue, dr. jeffrey sachs that hippie punching at this point is a little out of sync given the state of this country right now. >> well, i think also -- >> there are people who are really hurting who will look at that sound bite and wonder if they should even live in this country any more if that's who the republicans will pick as their nominee. >> well, as a guy who was slipped millions of dollars from fannie mae to "be a historian" months after he left the congress, it's disgusting, but this man's a disgusting person. >> mark haleprin, is anyone in the room seeing that? why clapping just blindly? why? i don't understand. >> right now the sentiment in the republican party is red meat against president obama and the left. anything you throw out that does that is going to succeed. one reason mitt romney is still doing well is he's learned how to do that. animate himself to talk about the president and gns the left. and the larger point was not just hippie punching, but president obama has created this climate as the hippies, as you would say can thrive. or continuing to grow among republican voters. new reuters poll has him in a statistical tie for the lead where he's been for the last week or so with mitt romney. that's a reuters national poll. interesting to note, too, that herman cain has slid down to 12% in that poll. for mitt romney, for his part, picked up a big endorsement in new hampshire over the weekend where you were. haleprin. nbc news also confirming charlie bass will get behind romney. let's go back to the national poll. what does it tell you for the moment that newt gingrich is up top? >> well, tells me it's his turn again. and i think he was -- it was fortunate in some ways for newt gingrich to have suffered the embarrassments he suffered earlier in may and june after he got in the race. he suffered them early enough he was able to move back around in this cycle, this merry-go-round of republican front-runners. my question is he will -- if he does not deflate between now and iowa, he will need to win iowa or else he will then deflate. and the fact that he have so little money and no real organization, which are things that generally count a lot in iowa. and when they don't count in iowa, it's because you have a strong base with christian conservatives like mike huckabee in 2008. mitt romney has a problem with christian conservatives because of his -- i'm sorry, i meant newt gingrich. so there is a question about his viability, i think, going forward whether this will be another one of these hot air balloons that rose and falls again. over the course of the next two months or the day after the iowa caucuses. >> i'm just -- i'm sorry, i'm just a little upset about that. and i -- i'm confused as to the people who are clapping in the audience and putting newt up in the polls. in terms of, are they not looking around at what's happening in this country? >> isn't everybody getting one week up in the polls in the republican party? >> okay. that's fine. >> this is just the rotation of one strange cabin mate after the next. >> okay. let's move on to other candidates and we'll get back to that. >> you're right. you're absolutely right. shocking. >> over the weekend, the rest of the republican field minus romney and former utah governor jon huntsman participated in a thanksgiving family forum in iowa. the debate centered on social issues triggering emotional moments where several of the contenders, a lot of them cried including herman cain who talked about his bout with colon cancer. >> stage four. >> take your time. >> i said i wasn't going to do this. is as bad as it gets. before my wife and i were about to get in the car, i said, i can do this. she said, we can do this. >> karen had delivered our baby isabella marie early, four or five days later they told us she had a fatal condition. i decided that the best thing i could do was to treat her differently. and not love her like i did because it wouldn't hurt as much if i lost her. >> santorum was talking about his youngest daughter now 3 years old who was diagnosed with a genetic disorder. the nature of the event, mark haleprin, there were two candidates obviously not there. but just give us a sense of -- it's the faith and families? >> it's a coalition group in iowa of religious conservatives and social conservatives who wanted to hear the candidates in a different format. and my hats off to them for getting them to agree to sit and have a conversation that was free wheeling, the whole thing was constructive because it showed sides of them we don't see in the formal debates and most voters don't get to see. and social conservatives are still looking for a candidate. and mitt romney by choosing not to go really bothered some of the people there. i said before, the biggest thing in this primary fight, nomination fight right now, what does mitt romney do about iowa? looks like he's going to go in there, his opening campaign office may go in there with television advertising. and when he does, the social conservatives will have a choice. can they coalesce around one person? or can he win iowa if they stay divided? >> he got spooked by iowa last time around, so it's sort of a big risk to go in there because he's got to go in there and win. he's got to go in there and win. he didn't make it to that event, nor did jon huntsman who was on "saturday night live." we'll show clips of that coming up. why don't we talk about those dirty people who need to take a bath. >> and get a job. >> and get a job. really. >> because there's a lot of jobs around, you know. >> go out and get a job. what's wrong with you? the occupy wall street movement is at the center of a tense situation on the campus of university of california davis. two officers on administrative leave after dousing peacefully protesting students with pepper spray on friday. the incident prompted the school's chancellor who is facing calls from faculty and students to resign to create a task force to investigate the incident. the president of the uc system has ordered a review of security procedures at all ten campuses saying he is "appalled by the images." the school's police chief says the officers only used the spray after being surrounded by protesters who prevented them from leaving the scene. >> the police chief said it before he realized that 100 people had posted on youtube what actually happened. >> and it shows the incredible brazen lying because they're not aware that everyone is snapping pictures. >> yeah. >> this chancellor's going to have to go. this is absolutely disgusting on the campuses. completely revolting. >> the chancellor, i mean, not to make excuses, the chancellor's ultimately responsible for the behavior of the public safety officials but did not, i think, give this order. so the question will be, i think, whether she ordered the thing dispersed, did not order the spraying of the pepper spray. these particular cops were horrific. the kids are seated on the ground, they've locked arms, they are not threatening these cops at all. military grade pepper spray is not supposed to be applied to anyone closer than 15 or 20 feet, and they are being sprayed at point-blank. they were spraying up kids shirts who were trying to cover their faces from the pepper spray. lifting and spraying them trying to make sure they would get their dose. there was like a level of sadism that played out here that is, i, i used the word criminal a few times on the set in the last couple of weeks. it looks pretty horrific. and certainly those guys who have been suspended, i think they're going to be fired or the chancellor will then have to go. >> in all, 11 received medical treatment, two sent to the hospital. the officers involved will be on paid leave indefinitely as they figure this out. in new york, they're planning to going to bloomberg's house, moving the location. >> they were there last night. >> they were there last night. >> my daughter's doing a debate in school about it. so we were having family debates about it. and i would say that it's -- i mean -- a legitimate movement, right? yes. just not much of a leader at this point. but a legitimate movement and institutions are going to have to figure out how to let them exist. >> not only legitimate, there's a first amendment in this country with the right to assemble. and the fact that there's such fragility of the power structure that they can't have kids in a park or locking arms on a campus is a th is pathetic. it's disgusting, they're making a point and it's rattling everybody because the point has resonance, that's the problem. >> the thing that strikes you too. you look at that video from davis. is how casually he's walking -- he's not being met with resistance and having to defend himself. they're sitting down. heads down, arms locked. >> and even if the chancellor didn't order the method, it's negligent. >> we've got problems. i'll tell you. i've got to get to the super committee. but the first lady and dr. jill biden, they were booed at this event. what is wrong with people? let's get the latest on the supercommittee. it's going to be good news here, right? oh, wait. the congressional super committee appears ready to accept failure. with a self-imposed deadline to slash more than $1 trillion from the deficit now just hours away, lawmakers on both sides admit any hope for agreement is slipping away. since the beginning, the deadlock has come down to huge sticking points. democrats blame republicans for being inflexible on new taxes, and republicans blast democrats for not accepting changes to medicare and social security. on "meet the press," jon kyl and john kerry continued the blame game. >> when our democratic friends are unable to cut even $1 in spending without saying it has to be accompanied by tax increases, i think that tells you all we need to know about the run away spending. >> what jon just said is patently untrue. we just cut $917 billion without one dime of new revenue. he knows it. we just did it. we cut $550 billion in the health care act from medicare. we didn't raise -- i mean, this is just nonsense. >> if the super committee can't come to a consensus, automatic spending cuts will kick in, $1.2 trillion over ten years to military and domestic programs. defense secretary leon panetta warns the cuts slated to start in 2013 could cripple the military. i mean -- >> were we played for fools on this? was this ever going to be anything more than a symbolic gesture? this was going to transcend politics, the one group that could finally get at the problem and change the way washington behaved. did this ever have a chance? >> i think it could have worked. these cuts aren't ever going to take place. across the board cuts. the pentagon can't tolerate them and there'll be a coalition of defense contractors, the pentagon and republicans in congress to stop that. there's a lot of things that must get dealt with. a peace meal. the advantage of the supercommittee in theory, they could produce something with an up or down vote. this was huge -- we talked about the failure of leadership and the parties that come together. this is a huge failure. and it's not clear who wins politically, but the losers are the people who want the country on track of a better tax system and deficit reduction and that's most people in the country. >> and this is a huge, you know, cable countdown clock drama. and what does it have to do with jobs? >> nothing. coming up, we're going to talk to senator john kerry, a member of the so-called super committee. also senator joe manchin of west virginia. up next, a look at "politico's" top stories. plus, the eagles without michael vick keep their season alive. and i'm sorry for my sour mood this morning. i'll perk up. i'm a morning anchor. >> during the break -- something cheery. first, let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. hi, bill. >> captain negative this morning, huh, mika? what can you do? we're going to try to improve things. we're going to try to improve the forecast in many parts of the country. it's also been a little wet in the areas of the east in the middle of the nation. rain is exiting the east coast. a decent monday, wet weather from boston down to d.c. also rain heading to pittsburgh. throughout the day today, don't expect a lot wet weather. we have a lot of heavy rain through kentucky and tennessee, also in arkansas, we've got showers and thunderstorms. forecast today in the middle of the country, we could have some severe storms. doesn't look like too many tornadoes, but dallas all the way to houston, northward to oklahoma, that's where the storms will be. also big storm in the pacific northwest. a wet travel week for many of us. we'll have those updated forecasts throughout the week. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. 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what's he doing? we're in the big leagues now. you can't have a guy lighting up a butt in the middle of a campaign commercial. >> well, it was on the internet and we thought maybe people would notice. >> well, here, can you use this? maybe you can work this into one of your spots next time. we got a lot of fun out of that. have you thought about that? think about that, herman. i don't know who your national security advisers are. who are those guys? is it this guy? are we going to see this guy? hey, how you doing, come on in. and so -- yeah, there he is right there. all right. we've got to go. well, good luck on the campaign trail. >> wow. i'd laugh, but it doesn't seem so funny this morning. let's take a look at the morning papers. >> very funny. >> it was funny? okay. i've got to get a change in my attitude. the "washington post" says the obama administration is investigating whether they supplied gadhafi with artillery shells. the shells which libya filled with highly toxic agents were uncovered in recent weeks by revolutionary fighters. russian prime minister vladimir putin known for his carefully staged public appearanced had one backfire while attending a martial arts fight. he quickly learned how unpopular he was with the crowd who drowned him out with boos and whistles. he plans to run for the third presidential term next year. usa today says bruce springsteen and the band have ap nou announced plans for a tour in 2012. the band says there's also a new album on the way. looking forward to that. >> from our parade of papers, the birmingham news and the latest bcs standings, one, two, three, the s.e.c. has won the last five and a sixth appears likely with lsu number one, alabama, number two, and arkansas at number three. and now a look at the playbook. patrick, good morning. >> good morning, everybody. >> let's talk about republican spending. the iowa caucus weeks away now. how are they going to spend their money? >> well, so far in this campaign cycle, it's been a lot cheaper than 2008. but the reality is, a lot of these candidates do have about seven figures of money onhand. perry, romney, cain, ron paul. they do have a lot of money and with seven weeks before the caucuses, you'll see a torrent of spending on mailers, paid organization. how much of this is going to play out in terms of the polls? we don't know. we've seen how fluctuating the standings are. but obviously the big question, of course, is mitt romney in iowa. we are seeing more that he will make an effort there. he's going to open up an office headquarters, sending out his colleagues to make inroads there. i think you are going to see a lot more of mitt romney in iowa. and as you guys have discussed, if he sort of makes a big play there, that could, some people argue could make this race just about him. >> romney's going to go up with ads soon as mark haleprin said. he's staffing up iowa a little bit. what went into the decision to play in iowa? they think they can win there? >> they're being very cautious. they probably don't like the fact that we're talking about this. because they want to gauge expectation so if he lose in the way he lost in 2008, he won't necessarily have egg on his face. but the reality is that i think as he sees his numbers in that state improve with really not much effort. and i think as he sees the fluctuating poll rankings amongst his colleagues in the field, he thinks and realized this is, perhaps, you know, a once-in-a-lifetime chance to end this nomination process hopefully in his favor. >> mark haleprin, if he finishes second in iowa, that means what? >> it all depends on the expectations game and how the media interprets it. second, iowa, could be good enough for him, second could be a disaster depending on the expectations between now and january. >> isn't he setting big expectations by going out with ads and staffing up? >> they're still trying to do what they can to try to position to win without letting the expectations be that he must win it. it's a dangerous game. but they feel -- i guess they feel they have no choice. and the lure is, if he goes into iowa and wins it, which he can, it's over. >> the media narrative is quickly going to be, can he conquer the ghosts of 2008 and the way he tried to win it and tried to do the same thing in 2008. now it's going to seem to a lot of people in the press that he's trying to do the same thing now and they're going to measure him against that. >> thank you so much for the look inside the playbook. appreciate it. still ahead, jon huntsman stops by "snl" to give an update on the campaign and show his love for everything new hampshire. plus, the new york football giants might be in some trouble. mike florio joins us with a day in the nfl. capital one's new cash rewards card gives you a 50% annual bonus! so you earn 50% more cash. according to research, everybody likes more cash. well, almost everybody... ♪ would you like 50% more cash? 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[ male announcer ] black friday's here. deals start thursday 10 pm. more electronics start at midnight. and we're open all day and night so you don't have to wait outside. walmart. barnicle harassing bridges for an autograph. >> i had to distract him. >> he does the thing where, it's for my son. my 18-year-old son. >> when he asked for a sample of his saliva. >> that was too much. >> mike florio, the founder of sports blog. good to see you. i'm a giants fan as you know. tough one last night for the giants. >> well, it was because it's set up for the giants to win it easily with mike vick out, broken ribs, one of their starting receivers done. vince young comes in with a career resurrection. had the big touchdown pass to riley cooper, his relaplacement. he's a beast, and that's the end of it for the giants. >> it sets up terribly too for the giants. dallas in second, but their remaining schedule is brutal for the giants. >> they've got very difficult games coming up, the new orleans saints next weekend, the green bay packers, and they play the cowboys twice. if the eagles can beat the cowboys and the redskins over the balance of the season, if they get into a tie with the giants, the eagles will edge out the giants. so the eagles seem to be left for dead every other week and then they're back in. and they'll probably blow it in the next opportunity. they have the patriots this coming weekend so it could be over by sunday. >> what do we make of dallas? the redskins did get the win in overtime. how good are the cowboys? >> i think they could be very good. tony romo now 18-2 in the month of november, surging three wins in a row. they're kind of under radar. and i think they like it that way. they're used to being the team with all the focus, all the pressure. they're sneaking up on people. not going to be sneaking up on people for very long. >> chicago bears getting hot, a victory yesterday for the bears. jay cutler stays in the game after injuring his hand, threw a pick, goes for the tackle, breaks his thumb. this is tough. >> this was bizarre, he stayed in the game, post game interviews, he never said a word about possibly being injured. he leaves the stadium and then reports start bubbling up he's got this broken thumb six to eight weeks. he may have surgery. they're going to be depending a lot on matt forte. >> what's the word inside the nfl? has it been put to rest that cutler's not tough? we found out he was injured in that playoff game last year, he's a tough guy and takes hits. >> the problem is his demeanor. he comes off as a guy who doesn't care and people see that and react to it. he's got that look on his face like he doesn't care one way or the other. but his play says otherwise. >> the packers, though, of course, that's another story. 10-0 now. >> and they have the lions on thanksgiving. with each passing week if they keep winning, it's going to get harder and harder, but then they finish up with the bears and lions at home. they've got an opportunity to go 16-0. i still worry about how that offense is going to operate at lambo field if they get weather -- they get a team like the 49ers in there, and the wind's blowing sideways and there's snow and it's cold, will the packers play like the packers have played all year? >> how about this guy? a real game on thanksgiving? >> three of them. >> miami, really? >> miami's won three in a row, the cowboys are in first place. they've been very good the last three weeks. that's a little bit of a donut hole, but you've got the brothers on friday night -- usually it's terrible games and you sleep all day. >> you can justify not speaking to your relatives this time. the 49ers, we've got to talk about them. they're 9-1 now. >> they're 9-1, they could be 10-0 because they had the cowboys beat way back in week two, but they steam rolled the arizona cardinals this week. and this was the first game the 49ers have played in the weak nfc west since week one. 13-3 is looking like the minimum record. they've got the ravens and the steelers. they're going to be 14-2. >> how about that the san francisco 49ers? the afc, the ravens beat the bangles, how do we sort out the best team in the afc? >> looked like texas until we figured out they lost their quarterback. i think it's going to lean back to the patriots. >> thank you, mike. up next, mika's must-read opinion pages. >> there are some good ones. ♪ ♪ ooh, ooh-ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh-ooh, ooh ♪ ♪ it's nice to be here ♪ it's nice to see you in my bed ♪ ♪ ♪ there are diamonds in her eyes ♪ [ male announcer ] this is your moment. ♪ and they sparkle in the night ♪ ♪ when the moment comes alive [ male announcer ] this is zales, the diamond store. tle [ male announcer ] this is zales, emotional hetlretl?tl aren't you getting a little industrial? 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[announcer] at conoco phillips we're helping power america's economy with cleaner affordable natural gas... more jobs, less emissions, a good answer for everyone. so, by reducing the impact of production... and protecting our land and water... i might get a job once we graduate. [ daniel ] my name is daniel northcutt. [ jennifer ] and i'm jennifer northcutt. opening a restaurant is utterly terrifying. we lost well over half of our funding when everything took a big dip. i don't think anyone would open up a restaurant if they knew what that moment is like. ♪ day 1, everything happened at once. ♪ i don't know how long that day was. we went home and let it sink in what we had just done. [ laughs ] ♪ word of mouth is everything, and word of mouth today is online. it all goes back to the mom and pop business founded within a family. ♪ when i found out i was pregnant, daniel was working on our second location. everyone will find out soon enough i think that something's happening. ♪ ♪ one of two things will happen with the sexual harassment. and i'm not stranger to sexual scandal. >> really? >> one of two things will happen. >> yes. >> you'll be exonerated, they will all -- you'll be like justin bieber, all that's going away. they are all lying? >> yes, they are. >> four women, similar circumstances -- >> how did you get four? >> well, you tell me -- i'm sorry, is it 9-9-9? >> no. >> time now for the must-read opinion pages. 42 past the hour. i'm going back to the dirty people. occupy our consciences. this is in the "washington post." the movement should remind itself of its greatest innovation. its slogan, we are the 99%. this is an affirmation that is trying to speak for nearly everybody. its tactics should live up to this aspiration by building support among the vast number of americans who will never show up at the encampments. elizabeth warren understood far earlier than most at the coast of the inequality and the abuses of financial power. the last thing this movement should want to do is create fodder for the adds ads and e-mails. now it's time to occupy the majority. to an extent, they do need a leader, they do need political figures to feel comfortable coming their way. and that has been a little bit of a challenge, has it not? actually, mark haleprin, you might be good on this, and then dr. sachs. >> i think it's a real tragedy. they're putting one of the most morally important issues the country faces now front and center, but they're not doing it in an effective way to draw in politicians and drive a specific agenda focused on what government's doing now and the next election. it's a real tragedy. >> almost kind of like dangerous for politicians to step their way. >> i don't think it's a tragedy. i think what's amazing is in eight weeks the discussion in this country has changed remarkably. unbelievable what they've accomplished from september 17 till now. all of a sudden for 30 years as inequality was building as unfair wealth, as criminality on wall street was building, nobody was talking about it. eight weeks by these incredibly tactics in the country, all of a sudden the whole country's talking about it. this is the very beginning of something quite big. >> it's a two-month-old movement. >> yep. >> and in 1960 when the civil rights movement started to take off, the slogan of the civil rights movement was, what do we want? freedom, when do we want it? now. there were no demands, there was no agenda, really no recognizable leaders. it took time for those things to develop. it took a while for the coordinating committee and the southern christian leadership conference. there was martin luther king, this movement, unfortunately, is not blessed with someone of that kind of epic proportion. but the movement is two months old. and they are -- if this movement does not start to develop institutions that are around it like those, it'll be a failure. and if it doesn't reach out, if it doesn't expand over the coming year, year and a half, it will have failed. but at this point, to criticize it for not yet having a specific agenda or one leader is really premature by any historical standard of any successful protest movement in the american history. >> except, we live in a different time than then, and we're close to a national election, and -- >> i can barely organize a dinner party in two months let alone have something, a long agenda with demands and a leadership structure. and they've organically sprung up in two months. >> they're not that big. >> e.j. mentions elizabeth warren in his piece. there's a huge piece in the sunday magazine on elizabeth warren, fairly positive piece. but let me read this part. she writes -- >> you think? based off that title. >> i'm going to read the one part. it was like a big red kiss, how's that? >> she's going after the title. >> if washington were a place where one brave politician is able to triumph, warren wouldn't be running for the senate, she'd be running for the consumer protection agency she created. but obama didn't even nominate her for the position. perhaps he didn't want to have the fight with republicans determined to block her. perhaps he was worn down by those on his own team who didn't mesh with warren or by other democrats like chris dodd who suggested publicly that she lacked the managerial experience to run the agency. but that's the point. warren is headed toward a legislative body that will most likely wear her down too. she will be pushing her attempts at substantive change right up against the same republicans whose very existence cowed a president in the senate that now requires 60 votes to pass a greeting card. to an extent, that's true. how will she be able to make a difference? having said that, my personal instincts in reading this is i hope she doesn't give up and i hope supporters grow in numbers and vote for her and vote for people like her. because she wanted to do what no one has had the guts to do, no one. she wanted to do much more than anyone when it comes to pulling back the fat cats, getting some regulations in there that protect the little guy, that protect the folks on main street. she was failed at it, was failed, i think, by the system. but she wants to do what no one has had the guts to do. is there anyone else? >> i think things are changing right now. and we're still in the aftermath of this incredible financial collapse, and then understanding one scandal after another that brought us to this point. and america's a big ship. it takes time to turn, but it's turning, that's what the occupy movement is doing. at eight weeks, oh, my, the inequality on wall street. people are waking up to this and elizabeth warren's a major figure in all of this. it takes time, as jon said, it takes a number of years. but i think we should have good confidence that after 30 years of neglect at all of these issues, building up, things are going to change right now. it takes time. >> and she's totally connected and dialed in and has been for a long time to the idea we're hearing much more of now on both sides, republican and democrat, that the game is rigged. >> that's right. >> that's been her message, not as a johnny come lately, but that's where she comes from. >> and she's drawing huge crowds, excited crowds, people who really want to hear what she has to say. it's exciting, i really hope she does well. up next, snl gives us mitt romney raw and unleashed. willie's news you can't use is next. 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[ louder ] hello? but we still need your signature. right now during sign then drive it's never been easier to get the all-new passat, the 2012 motor trend car of the year, for practically just your signature. that's the power of german engineering. visit vwdealer.com. it's time. >> oh, is it? are you sure? because i'm not having a good day. will you cheer me up? >> absolutely. jon huntsman was on this show on friday, he did a cameo spot on "snl" upstairs here. sliding in on weekend update. seth questioning his strategy to focus solely on new hampshire. >> you seem to be putting all of your eggs in one basket in new hampshire. are you worried you might alienate the rest of the country? >> seth, i love all of america, from dallas, texas, to manchester, new hampshire. from the majestic rocky mountains to new hampshire's scenic lake wi. to the affordable outlet malls in north conway, new hampshire. >> you know, i'm from new hampshire. >> well, that makes sense because you're kind and good looking, classic new hampshire. >> governor huntsman, i can't tell you that we do not fall for easy compliments. >> that's because you're wise like a dartmouth professor. >> are your parents registered voters? >> my mother's a democrat and my father's an independent. >> say hello to your father for me. >> he said it was well received out there. >> it was playing like a loop on their local tv station. that was the target audience. not your manhattan elites. >> not everyone can be that funny. >> stop pandering. >> good lord. >> so they opened the show, "snl" with jason sudakis as mitt romney showing he can loosen up too. mitt romney raw and unleashed. >> tonight, mitt romney is going to really let loose. get ready for mitt romney raw and unleashed. if elected president, my first act would be to repeal obama hair -- oops, i mean obama care. what an endearing flub. why don't we ask one of my former employees, debra singer. >> you said i was a sharp dresser. >> uh-oh, over the line. over the line. man, keep me away from the ladies because i'm a real dog, bark bark. >> bark, bark. so, yesterday, in new hampshire -- >> yes. >> mitt romney was out on the campaign trail, clearly he caught wind of this raw and unleashed. >> today, this is me just raw and unleashed. >> thank you. >> see. he can play along. playing into the raw and unleashed. >> it's so meta, him doing the thing, commenting on the thing about him doing the thing thing. >> as he was passing the sandwiches out and they were getting messy, he said don't drop the bacon, if you do, i'll eat it. that's raw and unleashed. >> i'm not sure if this is news you can't use or not, but huge nascar race yesterday. >> those always get a big crowd. >> tony stewart beat carl edwards. but before the race, first lady michelle obama dr. jill biden, getting mixed reaction. the two were there to take part in an initiative to honor military families. >> how nice of them. >> here you go. >> please welcome our grand marshals, sergeant andrew barry and family. first lady of the united states michelle obama and dr. jill biden as they deliver the most famous words in motor sports. >> gentlemen, start your engines! >> that wasn't that bad. couple guys booed. >> they're with children. >> overreaction. >> it was kind of rude, but they looked like very nice -- very nice of them to be there. >> the real story, tony stewart beats carl edwards. he wins the race. that's all very exciting. >> who cares? >> you just showed -- lots of people care. still ahead, senators john kerry, joe manchin, keep it on "morning joe." congratulations. congratulations. congratulations. today, the city of charlotte can use verizon technology to inspire businesses to conserve energy and monitor costs. making communities greener... congratulations. ... and buildings as valuable to the bottom line... whoa ! ... as the people inside them. congratulations. because when you add verizon to your company, you don't just add, you multiply. ♪ discover something new... verizon. and here's what we did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy... we're at work providing power to almost a quarter of our homes and businesses... ... and giving us cleaner rides to work and school... and tomorrow, we could do even more. cleaner, domestic, abundant and creating jobs now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power, today. learn more at anga.us. ♪ sen♪ co-signed her credit card - "buy books, not beer!" ♪ ♪ut the second at she shut the door ♪ ♪ girl started blowing up their credit score ♪ ♪ she bought a pizza party for the whole dorm floor ♪ ♪ hundred pounds of makeup at the makeup store ♪ ♪ and a ticket down to spring break in mexico ♪ ♪ but her folks didn't know 'cause her folks didn't go ♪ ♪ to free-credit-score-dot-com hard times for daddy and mom. ♪ v.o.: offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com it's all crossed out... it's 'cause i got everything on it. boom! thank you! 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(phone ringing) chase sapphire preferred, this is julie in springfield. when our democratic friends are unable to cut even a dollar in spending without saying it has to be accompanied by tax increases, i think that tells you what you need to know about our run away spending. >> what john just said is patently untrue, we just cut $17 billion without one dime of new revenue. he knows it, we just did it. we cut $550 billion in the health care act from medicare. we didn't raise -- this is just nonsense. >> some of the democrats were asked, well, what's the president's role been to try and help the super committee come to consensus? and the answer is, he hasn't had any role. he's done nothing. it is another example of failed leadership. he has not taken personal responsibility to get the super committee to find ways to balance our budget and cut spending. >> welcome back to "morning joe." live look at the white house at the top of the hour. the lights are on, and the sun is trying to come up over washington. looks a little bit like a foggy day just like here in new york. mark haleprin and jeffrey sachs at the table, joining the table, andy serwer. featuring the "fortune" business of the year starbucks ceo howard schultz. did you know we were brewed by starbucks? what a coincidence. it's good to have you onboard. we'll talk to you about the super committee. it didn't go so well. we tried to lead with newt gingrich last hour and -- >> i thought it went fine. >> why do they call it a super committee anymore? they've lost that. it's the not so super committee. it's the lame committee. let's stop calling it that. >> yeah. okay. after months of deliberations, you might be right, andy. the super committee appears to be ready to accept failure with a semiimpo self-imposed deadlin away, lawmakers on both sides admit that any hope for agreement is slipping away. since the beginning, the deadlock has come down to huge sticking points. democrats blame republicans for being inflexible on taxes and republicans blast democrats for not accepting major changes to medicare and social security. literally what has changed? nothing. if the super committee can't come to a consensus, automatic spending cuts will kick in, $1.2 trillion over ten years to military and domestic programs. defense secretary leon panetta warns the cuts slated to start in 2013 could cripple the military. committee members don't expect a breakthrough, but the obama administration is still urging them to accomplish what they set out to do. in a statement, the white house said in part this, avoiding accountability and kicking the can down the road is how washington got into this deficit problem in the first place. so congress needs to do its job here and make the kind of tough choices to live within its means that american families make every day. all right. first of all, andy -- >> i'm so tired of these cliches. kicking the can down the road, the american families do this, why can't we do it? i was out at apec in honolulu a couple of weeks ago and i was talking to the crusty head of the chamber of commerce. and we were saying, where are the leaders? where is the leadership? and where are the grown-ups? thinking about gerald ford, bob dole, lbj, mike mansefield, you know, tip o'neill. there are no leaders like that in congress anymore. i'm sorry, it's time to call in the grown-ups, but there aren't any. and it's like flashing this giant green sign to the rest of the world, we don't have our act together. but meanwhile, we'll tell europe how to clean up its act and get its act together. and the chinese, you know, you guys should learn from our system. we have such a great political system. no, we don't. >> if you think the world isn't watching and you think this doesn't have a negative impact, watch the "60 minutes" piece last night on christine lagarte and how she views our system and how morally wrong and corrupt at this point. she's one of the -- arguably -- most powerful women in the world. and that's her view of us at this point. mark haleprin, the politics of this, especially given the presidential elections, what do you make of the fact they can't get it done? >> everybody's going to be trying to get political advantage from this, both parties are going to try to game out at the congressional level and presidential level what it means, but it's not good for the country. as andy suggested, there's no adults, no leadership to make this happen. the super committee was supposed to be able to fast-track an agreement. that was the main theory behind it. but the first step was to come up with a deal amongst themselves. >> does the fact that there was this pledge signed and we can't get beyond that pledge because that's another "60 minutes" speech last night. it's a fair enough part of the argument that the republicans just won't bend in any way. >> they were open to new revenue, weren't open to enough new revenue and in the right way. >> come on. that's absolutely the basic point. and if you're in washington last week during this process as i happened to be, norquist's name was everywhere with disdain everywhere, by the way, on the republican side, as well. because they feel trapped. and they are trapped. we don't have enough revenues to pay for decency and for government right now. that's the basic point. but they've signed this pledge and that is the fantasy that we're living. >> they're clutching to the pledge, and this is a party that, of course, has spent us into oblivion over the past decade or so. just saying. i don't know who they are. >> agree with that. but look at the big picture, as well. what about the irresponsibility of democrats not to put serious cuts to medicare on the table, not to look at entitlements in a serious way. we take the taxes and grover norquist. what about looking at entitlements, are democrats serious about that? >> well, the problem is, nobody has been serious about getting health care costs under control. it's not really medicare that's the problem, it's the monopol e monopolized health care system, and when the reforms were negotiated in the last, everybody left the existing, incredibly high-cost private insurance system untouched. because the lobbies completely dominate the process. the american medical association, the private health care companies, pharma, and nobody wants to take them on. so it's not really about medicare, it's about the fact that our health care system is twice as expensive as the rest of the world's. because we have unbelievable amount of churning, management costs, high-price specialists that the ama keeps as monopolists. our doctors own the mri units and so forth. so much conflict of interest, but nobody wants to take that on. that's the fundamental -- >> none of these politicians are willing to put the country first. all they care about, clearly, and i'm getting so fed up, frustrated. none of these politicians are willing to put themselves out there. saying i don't care if i don't get reelected. hello, come on, come on. i don't care if i don't get reelected, i want to do something, my constituents may get mad at me, my party may get mad at me. bring back the smoke-filled room. can't you guys get your act together? >> well, the smoke-filled room is completely dominated by the big lobbies, whether it's the private insurance -- >> well, i don't know. >> whether it's big oil, wall street, that's what's paralyzed everything. >> i don't know about that. people need to sit down and compromise. >> i don't think you can say when the congress has a 9% approval rating they're focusing on everything they can to be popular. part of the problem is the white house, i think the president is willing to risk not being reelected to do what's right, and i think a lot of house republicans are, they don't believe in the same things. someone has to bridge that. >> i think they're not willing to put the country first so they'll get reelected. >> you just said someone needs to bridge that. mitt romney says it should be the president of the united states stepping in to bridge that. >> i think -- >> and he stood back, right? >> he stood back to a remarkable degree. but based on the previous budget negotiations and frankly the president's relationship not just with republicans now but with democrats on capitol hill, i think they made the right decision. i don't think they would have gotten a better -- >> right decision for him politically, maybe, not for the country. >> i don't think he's in a position. >> the president in our system is the person that's supposed to be putting forward the propositions and since the start of this administration, he hasn't. and that's a serious problem. >> right. >> but if he did engage on this, which, again, has nothing to do with job creation, correct, correct, correct? and then wasn't out on the road and abroad and working on trying to rectify the really, really, really perilous job situation in this country, we'd be slamming him again for being off message and off focus on what's important to this country. i'm not necessarily sure getting his hands dirty on that would have been politically helpful. >> i think it does have something to do with jobs. the markets want to see the government work. and i think we could've moved on to bipartisan compromises on emergency and health care and jobs. >> mika, there's no way out of our crisis that isn't going to take a few years. >> of course. >> the shame is that we started out with some gimmicks at the beginning, we lost a lot of time. now we're in a very short time horizon until next november. and so nothing was done to set this many-year course out of the crisis. so we've been improvising year in and year out. and the president has to take responsibility for that part. the republicans have to take responsibility for complete 100% intransigence on the most basic question of paying for our government. because they signed this pledge of grover norquist. that's the fundamental point on the republican side. the president did not start out with the plan for recovery, started out with a gimmick called stimulus, one or two years and that was it, that's the problem on both sides. >> jeff, you had another long night at the 24-hour kinkos. you got the chart? we've got kara and kate holding the charts. nonsecurity discretionary budget. what do you want to tell us? >> that the underlying problem is that we're not paying for our government anymore. what we call this nondiscretionary, or nonsecurity discretionary -- that's everything the government does for goods and services in this country. it's job training, education, it's environment. it's space, it's science. okay, that long, long, long, long list of things that we need government for, then if you look at this other graph, the lines, this is the shocking thing. what happened is we used to spend about 5% or 6% of our national income on job training, on education, on science, on nasa, and so forth, on environmental protection, then ronald reagan came in and that's where that big steep falloff is on the left side of the chart. government was slashed. we have been living for all of those crucial categories of government at about 2% to 3 percentage points of national income. we're not getting the education we need, we're not investing in infrastructure. >> where is the money going? where is the money going? >> the money is -- let me finish the chart. if you go back. then we had this temporary spike called the stimulus. that obviously didn't do much. it went up, it went back down. and look at where we're heading by the budget agreements that were reached in august. we want to put all of government services, all of public investment at under 2% of our national income. basically what's happening is we're not taxing ourselves, our tax collections at the federal level are the lowest in modern history, 60% of national income. it's going for war, going for interest payments on the debt, going for social security, going for medicare. the things we need from government, education, helping our kids with tuition, environmental protection, rebuilding our infrastructure, there's no money for it anymore. and if we keep this tax pledge, we're not going to have government services and public investment anymore. the economy is disappearing before our -- the government is disappearing before our eyes. that's been the whole process underneath this -- >> so how do we get out of this, jeffrey? are you saying cut pentagon spending no doubt and raising taxes? >> of course, the rich have gotten super rich and they've gamed the system. corporate taxes are at the lowest level in modern history because our companies put their profits in the cayman islands and bermuda with the permission of the irs through transfer pricing. we have to correct the corporate taxes. not cut the top corporate tax rate, end the abuse of the loopholes. we have to tax the top 1%. we have to tax the net worth that they've accumulated. this is the greatest wealth accumulation at the very top of the super rich in the history of the world. and that's money that needs to to help pay for our kids to stay in school, for our environment to be protected, for our roads to be rebuilt. that's what we're not doing. and because of this no tax pledge, there's no money there to run the most basic services of government anymore. that's what is crushing the prosperity of the country, actually. and the big lie is that they're overtaxed, of course, at the top. they've had every gimmick after another. so the richest people in this country are paying 15% interest -- income taxation because that's what the hedge funds get. why do they get that? because they pay for the political campaigns. >> i mean -- and i think most of us at this table agree about the loopholes. mark haleprin, though, if they don't get to anything, there are these automatic triggers that go into effect. >> sequester -- >> will we get around that? >> i think because of the defense cuts, the thing will have to be undone. but there are a number of other issues, the bush tax cuts, the benefits, there's a bunch of big things that have to be dealt with or big implications. the alternative minimum tax, how that gets done without the method of the super committee is difficult to see. but i don't think those cuts will have -- >> i'd like to come to the defense also. the defense of the defense cuts, i would say. our defense budget is $700 billion right now. all they're talking about is taking $60 billion a year out of this. $600 billion over ten years. this is easily affordable. it's all the military contractors now standing up and yelling national defense. we don't have to defend against the soviet invasion. we still have our bases in europe right now defending against a country that doesn't even exist anymore. we can cut the military significantly and still preserve national security. in fact, if we can continue to spend $700 billion a year for national defense, we're going to break our security because we're so deeply -- itself is kind of a propaganda the military industrial complex. >> i don't want to argue whether each defense cut is worth it, but if we get around this automatic trigger, at what point do we lose faith in the system? because nothing ever happens. >> yesterday. >> no one believes. >> no one believes -- >> well, i think if anyone has -- if you have an elected official who says i will not compromise, you should throw them out. don't vote for someone like that anymore. don't reelect someone who says they won't compromise, i'll stand on my principles because these principles are destroying our country right now. it sounds great. i'm principled, i stand firm, i don't waiver, it's a canard, it's wrong, it's not the right thing to be doing right now. it's unbelievable to me. it's depressing, it's crazy. >> it really is. and i really hope that people are clueing in and really thinking about the people they're choosing as their leaders. just really, really think. and not entertained by them. but they want to be inspired and led by them and -- >> bloomberg candidacy became more likely. >> there you go. interesting. >> oh, okay. yeah, no. at this point i'm open. okay. coming up, senator joe manchin joins us straight ahead. but first here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. after a decent weekend around the country, we're going to have an active weather week, people trying to travel get to thanksgiving destinations. rain is exiting the east coast. that's good. just fine for your monday. more showers will move back into philadelphia, areas like d.c., maryland, and pittsburgh later today. heavy rain this morning through all of tennessee, kentucky, arkansas getting nailed with thunderstorms. and we could see additional strong thunderstorms late today around dallas. the storm gets cranked up in tuesday to wednesday. tuesday, the southeast, watch out traveling through atlanta, new orleans, the big cities down there. and the rain should move into d.c. and new york late tuesday. as far as wednesday goes, busiest travel day for the year. middle of the country, you're perfect. but a big storm system on the east coast. significant airport delays for all the big cities from new york to boston to d.c. that's going to cause a lot of issues. more on that as the week progresses. nice shot there of the oak trees on the lawn. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ ♪ ♪ mom? 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[ male announcer ] more people are leaving bmw, mercedes, and lexus for audi than ever before. take advantage of exceptional values during the season of audi event. and the reason there are special forces -- there's no 50-mile heist, there's nothing to root for. what are we trying to do? why does he want a second term? will he tell us? what is he going to do in the second term? where are we going? are we going to do something? he has not yet told us. he never tells you what he's going to do with reforming our health care systems, medicare and medicaid, how he's going to reform social security, is he going to deal with long-term debt? how? reform the tax system? how? why are we in this fight with him? give us our orders, tell us where we're going, give us the mission. and he hasn't done it. i think there's too many people around him. little kids with propellers on their heads. they're all virtual. politics, the social networking -- i get these e-mails, you probably get them. i'm tired of getting them. i want to meet people. their idea of running a campaign is a virtual universe of sending e-mails around to people. no, it's meetings with people, forging alliances. i hear stories you will not believe. not a single phone call since the last election. they don't call. he never calls, that's the message. members of congress. i keep hearing, when did you hear from him last? >> silence. >> he doesn't like their company. >> welcome back to "morning joe." fascinating insight from chris matthews. joining us now, senator joe manchin. thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you for having me, mika. >> welcome back to the show. is there anything, anything at all on capitol hill that you guys can agree on? anything? >> well, we agree on watching "morning joe" when we're working out. that's the one that's on all the time. >> that's a start. you guys can agree and start watching it tomorrow because joe will be back and there'll be a little more balance. i agree, leaning left a little bit. let me ask you about this, does it fall on president obama ultimately if the super committee fails? >> well, you know, mika, it's leader -- if i was the governor of the state of west virginia, people relied on me to set the tone of what we were going to do and push it through and everybody has a different style. i'm not going to criticize it, but people are going to judge the results we see, and if we don't get results, we're in trouble. and if the committee of 12 is not able to come to agreement, we have about 140 members of congress, about 44 senators and 100 members of the house saying be big, stand tall, let's vote on this thing, let's move it forward for the next generation. >> do you want the president -- i mean, i'm just looking at your comments made on "face the nation" for the president that you hope he would step forward and take leadership. i'm assuming on the super committee. what should he do at this point? should he call them out? >> you know, yes. he has to have the results. people are going to be judged on the results we receive. it's everybody's fault. if this will be the first generation that's ever failed a generation. ever turned over the keys and left it more shaped than it was when we received it. that can't be an option. you can't accept that. nobody can. and i know the president is hopefully he's going to fight for this thing. we've got to clear this up. it's a mess. >> senator, it's willie geist. good to see you this morning. as a guy who came from being chief executive of the state to being a larger body in the united states senate, describe your level of frustration, if you will, not just in this process, but in the many that have come before it with the way business is done in washington. >> well, everybody says that the hardest transition is for recovering governors, if you will. that's difficult, it really is. but with that being said, the options, you know, the opportunities you have, willie, to really fix and change the country, change the world really is unbelievable. i never had that option as governor. but i was expected to get things done. our whole state of west virgi a virginia -- think about it, six years we have -- we've had record surpluses all six years, a record rainy day fund, our credit rating was increased three times. we set our priorities based on our values. you can't be everything to everybody, but you set your course and people jump on and they like it or the people that don't will criticize it. but at least they want you to lead and set that course. we've got to go big. everybody says we need 4 trillion or more to swing this economy,erskine bowles and the -- it has morphed into the gang of six, and now there's over 140 of us. why won't the leadership all the way from the white house to both houses say, okay, that's our plan? that's where we're going right now. >> well, you keep coming back to executive leadership, you're talking about the president of the united states doing something here. what more would you like to see from president obama in this process? >> i would just like to, you know, when you look at it and we all have hindsight being 20/ 20, saying if i would have taken that bowles/simpson report that was my commission and we put together and that was the report given to me, 11 of 18, that was bipartisan voted to bring it to the fore and let's vote on it, i would hope he would embrace that now and say that's the best plan we have. it's weathered the test of time because it's been out there for about a year and it keeps gaining momentum. do you know what it would do to this market if we accepted that? if we said we're going to go bold. we're going to go big, and we're going to fix it and turn over the keys to the next generation in great shape. >> andy? >> senator, two questions. first of all, is the super committee dead, in fact, number one? because there is still a few hours left. and number two, have you yourself reached across the aisle and tried to compromise personally? >> yes. i do as much as i possibly can. i'm always -- mark kirk and i from illinois, we're both freshmen, we started out having lunch every thursday afternoon. we still do it. sometimes it's just two of us, sometimes a few more. i'm doing everything humanly possible. you have to build relationships. i knew when i was executive of the state of west virginia i had to reach out. i'd even go into the caucuses of the republican, after the election we both swore, took our oath. we have the same -- we all have the same constituency base. i can't just represent democrats, or you can't just represent republicans, we've got to represent the entire population of west virginia. now, i'm trying to work -- >> so why can't -- respectfully, why can't you all do anything? >> i have no -- you know what? i've said this. if you have, andy, if you have a situation and the climate that you're in, and every day you're trying to reach across and in the next day someone's going out and campaigning, raising money against you, i see that in our body when everybody's looking at everybody very suspiciously saying that person's going to go out and campaign against me, they're probably making phone calls to be used against me. somebody ought to say, let's put the country first, not worry about the election. >> you're describing a scenario where everybody's worried about reelection. >> that's what it's all about, mika. >> there's this bubble of you guys, no offense, and gals. but then there's the rest of america. >> well, i think -- >> and the huge disparity and the unemployment and the poverty and the hunger that people are enduring right now waiting, waiting, waiting for washington to come up with something. >> let me just say that, first of all, you have to have your financial house in order. and i said this, my grandfather used to tell me. he said, joe, if -- you start making cowardly decisions. we're talking $15 trillion in debt going to $17 trillion, and then $21 trillion by 2021, we'll be spending more on the interest for the debt in 2021 if we don't do something than our defense budget. >> and i believe the defense spending was put forward by republicans and they need to at least come to terms with the fact that there has to be some sort of agreement between the two sides. and maybe even a negotiation. >> let me give you this statistic. this statistic here is unbelievable. of the defense spending, they're telling me half of the defense spending of the $700 billion, $350 billion is for contractors. >> we have more contractors working for the department of defense than we do have our men and women in uniform. that's unbelievable. >> that is. >> i would say -- i'd say you could do a little bit of cutting there. >> yeah, there could be. well, we're going to have automatic cuts -- >> well, that's not governing. that's not governing. if you have automatic cuts and automatically without governing and looking at what you're affecting, the people most in need, the people basically that could help move this economy forward, you know, there's a way of doing it without cutting the cord to our entitlement programs or social programs. we had $125 billion last year that the gao identified as misspent or wasted money. can't we just clean up that? that would be a tremendous help to all of us. >> senator, just personally through this process, are you at all losing faith in the system? >> i -- i'm the eternal optimist. i just -- there's good people. i've met all 99 of my colleagues. these are all good people. really are on both sides of the aisle, they're all here for the right reason. but sometimes we congregate up. who's got the ball now? what team's ahead? that doesn't work well for us. i'm hoping if there's 140 of us or 44 in the senate asking our leadership in the senate, please, take up the bowles/simpson, we will vote, we think it's the best plan we have, it sends a strong message. it'll be tremendous for the recovery of this nation. >> joe manchin, thank you very much for being on the show. >> thank you for having me. coming up, a new book on the legacy of richard holbrook, we'll talk to david rhode. more "morning joe" in a minute. this new at&t 4g lte is fast. did you hear sam... ...got promoted to director? so 12 seconds ago. we should get him a present. thanks for the gift basket. you're welcome. you're welcome. did you see hr just sent out new... ...office rules? cause you're currently in violation of 6 of them. oh yeah, baby? ...and 7. did you guys hear that fred is leaving? so 30 seconds ago. 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[ male announcer ] the new htc vivid. stay a step ahead with at&t 4g lte, with speeds up to 10x faster than 3g. ♪ ♪ it's nice to be here ♪ it's nice to see you in my bed ♪ ♪ ♪ there are diamonds in her eyes ♪ [ male announcer ] this is your moment. ♪ and they sparkle in the night ♪ ♪ when the moment comes alive [ male announcer ] this is zales, the diamond store. oh, what if the world said, nah-nah-nah-nah, or if a baby had two knickknacks up her sleeve -- >> hoo-hah, cherry soda. i'm ron paul. bam. let's all pour lotion on the person that thinks i'm an ass, we should take their wig off. dude says have some brewskis and i'm thinking, those are awesome, more like it. >> who does that? >> badlipreading.com. they've hit almost all the candidates and just came around to ron paul. >> all right. >> cover of "fortune," how are we doing? we've got howard schultz on it. >> business person of the year. >> the business person of the year. >> what's the criteria? >> first of all, we have a series of financial metrics, and including profits, profit growth, market share, market value, and how the stock did and all that good stuff and then there's the intangibles. and howard schultz did very well with all of that stuff. and he left the company when it was in bad shape and it went into a tail spin, he came back, rescued it, now posting record numbers. and even more than that, he's gone on this public campaign. first of all, he was very out front about telling the american people and trying to get people organized about not giving money to politicians unless they compromised, something near and dear to my heart. and he's been big on job creation. had a big ad during the world series, during the world series he was with tony louisiaa russog to help manage. >> coincidentally, we are brewed by starbucks. >> as you may have gathered in the last four years. >> this whole thing is embarrassing, actually. >> no, it's the cover of fortune. it's a coincidence. >> "fortune's" not brewed by starbucks. >> what's the one thing he did to turn starbucks around? why were they too bloated? how did he change it? >> that's unclear to me. i think he cut back on unprofitable stores and then focused the company. they had all over the place, the stores were doing different things and kind of narrowed the offerings at the company. and then also made it expand overseas more and a lot of the profits coming from abroad. created a lot of jobs in the united states. >> how is that no contribution thing going? >> it's going pretty well. but in the long run, john, things work out, sometimes they don't. >> heilemann's a little saucy today. i don't know if he had that long issue. >> another great issue of "fortune" magazine. a look at tomorrow's "morning joe." we're going to talk to dick durbin. also betty white. >> that's amazing. >> i'm so excited. >> coming up, david rohde talks about his life and work. keep it here on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ let's go ♪ ♪ ♪ come with me, let's go ♪ ♪ come with me, let's go ♪ ♪ cruise like a norwegian ♪ how about making it brighter. more colorful. ♪ and putting all our helpers to work? so we can build on our favorite traditions by adding a few new ones. we've all got garlands and budgets to stretch. and this year, we can keep them both evergreen. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. make your season even brighter with 300-count icicle lights for just $7.48. and with my bankamericard cash rewards credit card, i love 'em even more. i earn 1% cash back everywhere, every time. 2% on groceries. 3% on gas. automatically. no hoops to jump through. that's 1% back on... 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[ male announcer ] black friday's here. deals start thursday 10 pm. but we're open all day and night so you don't have to wait outside. the only place to go on black friday. walmart. for the united states, the date in afghanistan is 9/11, of course, we all understand that. but for the region, it's 1989. the united states spent a decade driving the soviets out of the region, the policy which started under mika's father and continued under reagan. the soviets left in 1989, and the very next day in effect the united states turned its back on the region. leaving our pakistani allies who had been supporting with us, the period of charlie wilson's war. and the taliban came in, and that led directly to bin laden and where we are today. we cannot repeat 1989 again because we will then, al qaeda will come back, the whole region will go back into a crisis far worse. >> that was the late ambassador richard holbrook on "morning joe" just one year ago. joining us now, david rohde. he's a contributor to the new book about holbrook. the unquiet american richard holbrook in the world. and we certainly have enjoyed having holbrook on the show several times. it wasn't always perfectly peaceful as he is a colorful personality. he mentioned my father in that clip. i'll go right there. i'm reading page 55, because like a brzezinski i check the index for my dad. and you say while his epic feud with carter's national security adviser has long been the stuff of legend, his use of the press for self-defense is less well known and you go on to write that my dad tried to get him fired or something. i don't know. do we want to talk about this feud? should we lay it out there? >> well, there are many feuds. >> i don't think there was one in the end. i saw them getting along quite well. >> yes, he was a monumental ego and a monumental personality, but also monumental achiever. and watching what you've been talking about all morning, he was a doer. he did have a conflict with your father, but worked through it. and what was amazing about him was that he got results done. he met -- there was a famous thing where he brought jessie helms to the u.n. and convinced him to vote for back dues. when we talk about nobody taking risks, reaching out over the line, holbrook was the opposite of that. and yes, he was no saint, but he got things done. >> you've had an amazing personal tie to richard holbrook. we were -- have been for some time a very brave foreign journalist. you were snatched in '95 in bosnia, how does richard holbrook come into that story? >> it was ended proven they executed 8,000 bosnian muslims around. but i'm grabbed at a mass grave site. the peace talks start after that, my family flies in mass to thedayton peace talks, and they had this extraordinary week long period where he essentially did his amazing -- he sort of diplomat, you know theatrical presence and very much a very tough character and he got, you know, to release me after ten days. >> and 13 years later, 2008, in afghanistan. >> correct. >> you promised it wouldn't happen again, right? >> yeah, i did promise it wouldn't happen. i was at the marriage of one of the editors of this book. and this is summer 2008. four months later, i'm kidnapped by the taliban in afghanistan, and i'm in captivity, and i never mentioned holbrook to the captors. they read about him in the news and the taliban are very savvy. i've been taken over the border into a safe area they have in pakistan. they google me, they find my title holbrook from bosnia and walk in and say you're best friends with richard holbrook. and again he reaches out to my family, they all know him, my mother's constantly pestering him, please, help our son, that ends up a seven-month captivity. he's meeting with miff wife. he was an epic figurer if a long time. place him in the pantheon of important people in american foreign policy. and then talk about the depth of his disappointment about ever being secretary of state. >> i think he's right up there with many others in that he -- as time goes by, his contribution will be more and more seen. this might be hard to believe given his famous ego. he never talked about the secretary of state thing. i'm sure there was a personal disappointment there. there was ambition, but he measures in terms of what he achieved. back to this earlier theme. as time goes by, the breadth of his work. he wrote, you know, voluntaryme the pentagon papers, the bosnia breakthrough. and this book is designed to inspire young americans to public service. i in my chapter saying that he to showed that you can make a difference in urging young people to try to be like him. >> dr. sachs. >> in another place he made a big difference. he called remarkable meeting of the security council on the aids epidemic and said this is a worldwide security issue. it opened the eyes of governments all over the world. it was an important moment in the year 2000. great contribution reaching across a very different area, but bringing to global notice in a way that it hadn't been. >> and created a coalition of businesses to help fund aids testing and different cures, this reaching across the aisles. in one of the chapters, his writings are actually in the book. you'll notice he writes beautifully -- none of his -- he never uses words that end in ism. he didn't think this model or that model. he looked for practical, pragmatic, you know, solutions. and again, i'm very biased because of my personal history. >> it's called "the unquiet american." david rohde, thank you, and stay safe. stay out of trouble, please. >> my days as a war correspondent are over. coming up, roger bennett. you won't understand a word he's saying, but it's fascinating. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. why do we have aflac... aflac... and major medical? 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[ male announcer ] it's practically yours. but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get a jetta. that's the power of german engineering. get zero first month's payment, zero down, zero security deposit and zero due at signing on any new volkswagen. visit vwdealer.com. and zero due at signing on any new volkswagen. smal l bu and zero due at signing on any new volkswagen. sinesses are the smal lifeblood of our communities. on november 26th you can make a huge impact by shopping small on small business saturday. one purchase. one purchase is all it takes. so, pick your favorite local business... and join the movement. i pledge to shop small at big top candy shop. allen's boots... at juno baby store. make the pledge to shop small. please. shop small on small business saturday. joining us now, espn's soccer analyst, the host of the great show "men in blazers," 9:00 in the morning on sirius xm radio. the great roger bennett. you are a fine man. >> so what are you going to talk about today? >> super committee! >> seriously. >> death or the weekend soccer. >> can we talk about the american soccer match yesterday first? would that be agreeable? >> be my guest. >> so it was two teams in different colored jerseys playing a game. what happened? i have no idea what's going on here. >> this is chelsea and liverpool. >> no. this is the mls i'm talking about here. the big one. >> this was the big one. soccer was meant to be the sport in this country. last night was one word -- antici pointment. london donovan pooped home the only goal. it was as much a humanitarian gesture to win the game as -- >> there's kind of a problem with the game. >> the mls this season, you take the season as a whole. it's great progress. average attendance has outstripped the nba when it plays and the nhl. they've built now 12 soccer-only stadiums. if you're the manager of the american team, you watch the quality of this, i think you would make a memo to yourself to stop recruiting the pub leagues in america for future american national players. it was a sell-out, 30,000. i would o look at it as progress since 1996 and judge the league on one game. there was some gorgeous football. it was a wonderful game, chelsea and liverpool yesterday. joe's liverpool, red socks liverpool against the evil chelsea, rarely has there been 22 more despicable players on the field at one time. >> why despicable? >> chelsea's captain is currently being investigated by the police for racism charges during a game the not really the pride of england. liverpool struck first, maxi rodriguez drove it home. chelsea committed more plays forward in the second half and this is the kind of dance normally only seen by someone who's had double hip replacement surgery. to see chelsea's john terry on his bum powerless to save the winning goal from going in is a sight i never get tired seeing. it is one of life's simple pleasures. chelsea lost 3-4. liverpool plays manchester city next week. >> man city new castle yesterday -- >> yesterday it was a clash of the unbeaten teams. one team funneled by $311,000 worth of debt. the other team playing with good old teamwork and chemistry. barbara walters, if you're watching, please make him one of america's ten most fascinating. new castle undefeated. the run is over. manchester city. this is like modern combat. they have so many players who can hurt you and they play liverpool next week and i think we'll hopefully be here to pick up the pieces. you won't be a happy man. five points clear they are now at the top of the table. >> roger, thank you. >> mika, that is your favorite five minutes of the week. >> it is. i sort of tune out. all right, coming up next, newt gingrich finds a new target. presidential candidate unleashes on the occupy wall street movement. you'll hear that next on "morning joe." act my age? -why? -why? -why? 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[ male announcer ] as you wish, business pro. as you wish. go national. go like a pro. now through january earn a free day with every two rentals. find out more at nationalcar.com. all the occupy movements start with the premise that we owe them everything. they take over a public park they didn't pay for to go nearby to use bathrooms they didn't pay for, to beg for food from places they don't want to pay for, to obstruct those who are going to work to pay the taxes to sustain the bathrooms and to sustain the park so they can self-righteously explain that they are the paragons of virtue to which we owe everything. that is a pretty good symptom of how much the left has collapsed as a moral system in this country and why you need to re-assert something as simple as saying to them, go get a job right after you take a bath. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. welcome back to "morning joe." as you take a live look at new york city. back with me on set, we have willie geist, of course, mark halperin, john heilemann and jeffrey sachs as well. it's really not surprising coming from me but that was about the most arrogant and unself-aware -- those are the only words i can use -- things for any politician in this field to say. >> disgusting. absolutely disgusting. no sense in any meaning in all of this. absolutely revolting actually. >> am i year of row acting? >> no. i'm sickened by that. >> the republican party needs to engage on the immorality of the income inequality in this country and they'd be politically smart to try to capture some of the sentiment there that rails against a lot of what they should be against, too. >> so it is fair to say he's in the 1%. correct? >> yeah. >> he's telling the 99% to take a bath and get a job? really? really? i wonder how they do that right now. how given the state of this country, how anyone is supposed to try and just get a job and take a bath. who is this man? who does he think he is and why is he surging in the polls? i don't get it. >> it is again though, to mark's point, it is kind of amazing. you would have thought that there is actually common cause in some cases and ideologically and temperamentally. there are some people in the tea party who are as angry at the banks as the people who are -- used to be in the park and are no longer there. it is interesting no other republican has tried to seize on this, not necessarily embrace the protesters in terms of who they are but try to take this issue. >> jon huntsman talks about the concept of it and what's perhaps driving the anger, and then he goes on to what he thinks he should do to fix the problem of the disparity in this country but nobody's listening to him and i wonder why because in some ways he actually makes sense and can capture what should be understood about occupy wall street. there are some crazies in the street getting their pictures in the paper and that's not the best representation, but the message that they stand for and then to hear newt gingrich standing on literally his high horse after taking advantage of the system, cashing in on it, being the biggest literally the biggest hypocrite in the republican field, probably in politics today, the biggest hypocrite and then to cast aspersions and to speak down to these people as if they should be flicked away? it's disgusting. it's absolutely disgusting. it literally made my skin crawl. i cannot believe he resonates! >> he played pretty well in the room. >> we know he is a cynical politician if nothing else so who is he talking to when he says that. the republican party has decided to embrace this movement or recognize it the way the democratic party did to some extent with the tea party is just using occupy wall street as another way to whip up sentiment against the left and against president obama. played well in the room. i mean those were iowa activists who help determine who the republicans put forward. they loved that line. >> so this is what the room wants. is what the base wants? what are you telling me? >> the republican party has historically -- hippy punch something a favorite past time of the republican party over the past 20, 30 years. the silent majority in 1968 was about attacking the left for having been taken over by the 1960s version of this same movement and it worked electorally for richard nixon then. it was just as morally despicable but it worked and so you can -- there's a playbook there and they are going to take pages out of that playbook. >> remember newt blamed the democratic party for the susan smith drowning her children in south carolina. he's done this for a long time. >> i would argue, dr. jeffrey sachs, that hippie punching is at this point a little out of sync given the state of this country right now. there are people who are really hurt hog will look at that sound bite and just wonder if they should even live in this country anymore if that's who the republicans are going to pick as their nominee. >> for a guy who slipped millions of dollars from fannie mae to "be a historian" months after he left the congress, it's especially disgusting. but this man's a disgusting person. >> mark halperin, is anyone in the room seeing that? why clapping just blindly? why? i don't understand. >> right now the sentiment in the republican party is red meat against president obama and the left. anything you throw out that does that is going to succeed. one reason mitt romney is still doing well is he's learned how to do that. he's learned how to animate himself to talk about the president and against the left. >> the larger point was not just hippie punching. it was that president obama has created this climate in which the hippies, as he would say, can thrive. let's look what he's doing in the polls. support for newt gingrich continuing to grow among republican voters. new reiders poll has him in a statistical tie for the lead where he's been for the last week or so with mitt rockne. that's a reuters national poll. interesting to note, too, herman cain has now slid all the way down to 12% this that poll anyway. rick perry. for mitt romney for his part, picked up a big endorsement in new hampshire over the weekend where you were. hall principle, senator kelly, the state's lone republican senator throwing her support behind romney. nbc news also confirming u.s. congressman charlie bass will get behind romney. back to the national poll. john heilemann, does it tell you for the moment what does it tell you newt gingrich is up top? >> it is his turn again. it was fortunate in some ways for newt gingrich to suffered the embarrassments he suffered earlier in may and june right after he got into the race. he suffered them early enough that he was able to then move back around in this cycle, this merry-go-round of republican front-runners. my question is, not the national poll. my question is he will -- if he does not deflate between now and iowa, he will need to win iowa or else he will then deflate. and the fact that he has so little money and no real organization which are things generally count a lot in iowa, and when they don't count in iowa it is because you have a strong base with christian conservatives like mike huckabee in 2008. mitt romney has a problem with christian conservatives because of his personal baggage on the three wives front, et cetera -- i'm sorry, i meant newt gingrich obviously. so there is a question about his viability going forward and whether this is just going to be another one of these hot air balloons that rose an then falls again, whether again over the next of the next two months or it is the iowa caucuses. >> i'm just -- i'm sorry, i'm just a little upset about that. i'm confused as to the people who are clapping in the audience and putting newt up in the polls in terms of are they not looking around at what's happening in this country? >> this is just the rotation of one strange candidate after the next. >> all right. >> i doubt that he'll -- >> let's move on to some other candidates and we'll get back to that. >> you're right. absolutely right. it's shocking. over the weekend the rest of the republican field minus romney and former utah governor jon huntsman participated in a thanksgiving family forum in iowa. the debate centered on social issues triggering emotional moments for self-of the contenders. a lot of them cried, including herman cain who talked about his bout with colon cancer. >> stage four -- >> take your time. >> i said i wasn't going to do this -- is as bad as it gets. before my wife and i were about to get in the car, i said, i can do this. she said, "we" can do this. >> karen had delivered our baby isabella maria early, four or five days later they told us that she had a fatal condition. i decided that the best thing i could do was to treat her different differently, to not love her like i did because it wouldn't hurt as much if i lost her. >> santorum was talking about his youngest daughter now 3 years old, who is diagnosed with a genetic disorder. the nature of the event, mark halperin? there were two candidates obviously not there, but just give us a sense of the -- is the faith and families -- >> it is a coalition group in iowa of religion and social conservatives who wanted to hear the candidates in a different format and my hats off to them for getting them to agree to sit and have a conversation. it was very free-wheeling and you showed the most emotional parts but the whole thing was instructive because it showed the sides of them that we don't see in the formal debates and most voters don't get to see. >> interesting. >> social conservatives are still looking for a candidate and mitt romney by choosing not to go really bothered some of the people there. i said before, the biggest thing in this nomination fight is what does mitt romney do in iowa. looks like he's opening a campaign office. may go on television with advertising. assuming he does go in social conservatives there will have a choice, can they coalesce around one person or can he win iowa and win the nomination fight if they stay divided? >> why don't we talk about those dirty people who need to take a bath. >> get a job. >> and get a job. really. >> because there's a lot of jobs around. >> just go out and get a job. what's wrong with you? the occupy wall street movement is at the center of a tense situation in the campus of the university of california davis. two police officers have been placed on administrative leave after dousing peacefully protesting students with pepper spray during a demonstration on friday. the incident prompted the school's chancellor who is facing calls from faculty and students to resign to create a task force to investigate the incident. the president of the uc system has ordered a review of security procedures at all ten campuses saying he is "appalled" by the images. the school's police chief says the officers only used the spray after being surrounded by protesters who prevented them from leaving the scene. >> come on. >> police chief said it before he realized that 100 people had posted on youtube what actually happened and it shows the incredible brazen lying, because they're not aware that everyone is snapping pictures. this chancellor's going to have to go. this is absolutely disgusting on the campuses. completely revolting. and the lying -- >> it's not clear the chance lore will have to go. not to make excuses, the chancellor's ultimately responsible for the behavior of the public safety officials but did not i think give this order so the question will be i think whether -- she ordered the thing dispersed. not necessarily the spraying of the pepper spray. these particular cops were horrific. kids are seated on the ground. they've locked arms. they are not threatening these cops at all. military grade pepper spray is not supposed to be applied to anyone from closer than 15 or 20 feet. they are being sprayed at point-blank range and a lot of these kids are now really pretty ill. they're not going to die but they're not in great shape. they were spraying pepper spray up kid's shirts who were trying to cover their faces from the pepper spray. they were lifting people's shirts and trying to make sure they'd get their dose. there was like a level of sadism. certainly those guys who were suspended will i think have to be fired or else then the chancellor is going to have to go. >> in all 11 students received medical treatment, two were sent to the hospital. officers involved will be on paid leave indefinitely as they try and figure this out. we have to get to the super committee, but in new york they're planning on going to bloomberg's house, moving their locations, they were there last night. my daughter's doing a debate in school about it and learning about it so we were having a family debates about it and i would say that it's -- i mean a legitimate movement. right? yes. just not much of a leader at this point but a legitimate movement and institutions are going to have to figure out how to let them exist. >> it is not only legitimate, there is a first amendment in this country with the right to assemble and the fact that there's such fragility of the power structure that they can't have kids in park, that they can't have kids locking arms on a campus is really pathetic. we're seeing police batons, we're seeing pepper spray. it is disgusting.making a points rattlie ining everybody. >> you look at how casually he's walking back and forth. he's not met with resistance. they're sitting down. these are 20-year-old kids. >> even if the chancellor didn't order the method, it's negligent to not have supervision of law enforcement. >> we got problems. i tell you. i got to get to the super committee. it is going to be good news here, right? oh, wait. after months of deliberations, the congressional super committee appears ready to accept failure with a self-imposed deadline to slash more than $1 trillion from the deficit now just hours away, lawmakers on both sides admit any hope for agreement is slipping away. since the beginning, the deadlock has come down huge sticking points. democrats blame republicans for being inflexible on new taxes and republicans blast democrats for not accepting major changes to medicare and social security. on "meet the press," republican senator jon kyl and democratic senator john kerry continued the blame game. >> when our democratic friends are unable to cut even a dollar in spending without saying it has to be accompanied by tax increases, i think that tells you all you need to know about our run-away spending. >> what john just said is patently not true. we just cut $917 billion without one dime of new revenue. he knows it. we just did it. we cut $550 billion in the health care act from medicare. we didn't raise -- i mean, this is just nonsense. >> if the super committee can't come to a consensus, automatic spending cuts will kick in. $1.2 trillion over ten years to military and domestic programs. defense secretary leon panetta warns the cuts slated to start in 2013 could cripple the military. were we played for fools on this? was this ever going to be anything more than a symbolic gesture? this was going to be the one group that could finally get at the problem and change the way washingtonby havz? >> i don't think these cuts are ever going to take place. there's going to be a lot of fighting. the pentagon just can't tolerate across the board cuts. there will be a coalition of defense contractors, the pentagon and republicans in congress to stop that. there's a lot of things that must get dealt with piecemeal. the advantage of of the super committee in theory was they could produce something that would have an up or down vote. we've talked about the failed era of leadership and parties to come together. i think this is a huge failure and it is unclear who wins politically but losers are people who want the country to be on track of a better tax system and deficit reduction. up next from the deficit reduction committee, we'll talk to senator john kerry about the possibility of an 11th hour agreement. also, fenway park 1912 with the 100th anniversary approaching, a new book takes us back a century ago to the legendary park's opening in boston. we'll talk to the author of that book. but first, let's go to bill karins with a collection on the forecast. bill? >> well, good morning, we are continuing to watch the storm system developing in the middle of the country. if you have travel throughout this week you will notice it across the country. we are watching showers in philadelphia, d.c. and baltimore later on today but the heartland is where the strong storms will be. watch out from dallas to shreveport all the way down to houston, even oklahoma strong storms today. tomorrow we track that storm into the southeast. anyone trying to get there their destinations, even atlanta could have some strong storms and significant delays. then unfortunately all that heavy rain heads to the big cities of the east tuesday into wednesday. looks like a big storm, a lot of rain, major travel delays for the eastern seaboard come wednesday. thankfully it is only rain. not a lot of snow but that storm system will be gone on thursday. my bottom line is if you can wait to travel until thursday morning, try to do that because wednesday's going to be a headache up and down i-95. thanksgiving day the worst of it will be moving onshore in the pacific northwest. not a good week for you guys either. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. 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[ male announcer ] black friday's here. why wait outside when walmart has over 2 million tvs in stock? deals start thursday 10 pm. more electronics at midnight. republicans said well let's see if we can salvage something here. let's take the areas where we've at least had some agreement in our meetings, put those together and it adds up to about $640 billion that we could actually save and increase costs or in some cases derive some revenue from asset sales and that sort of thing. our democratic friends said no to that offer because it didn't raise taxes and i think it tells you a lot. and that is that in washington there's a group of folks that will not cut a dollar unless we also raise taxes. >> all right. i guess the other side of that is if there would be some movement on taxes, even just for the 1%, that perhaps then the republicans would move, too. that would be called -- i'm sorry, negotiation where people actually get to something. with us now from capitol hill, a member of the debt super committee and chairman of the senate foreign relations committee, democratic senator from massachusetts senator john kerry. senator, thank you for being on the show this morning. >> i'm glad to be with you. i want to begin just by saying to you one of the most refreshing things on your show is that you cover the premier league and i love watching -- i'm maybe one of the few but i love it. >> you are definitely -- >> senator kerry's the one. >> senator, it was just for you. >> i'm the one. chelsea-liverpool. i'm the one. >> i just like listening to roger talk so we both benefit. all right, is there any chance the super committee will get to a deal? >> i believe there is in fact -- i may be the only person in washington. it depends entirely on the willingness to compromise. i personally believe that if the republicans would not insist on extending the bush tax cuts on making them permanent for the wealthy, we're all prepared to do it for 98% of america. but if they insist on doing it for the wealthy, it is very hard to make a deal. but if they were willing to take that off the table, leave it up to the american people in the election, let the tax committees work on that, if we were to give expedited procedures to the tax committees for tax reform, we could lower the corporate rate to 25%. we could have individual tax reform and we could get the $1.2 trillion that's needed. that is staring us in the face, as i talk to you right now. >> is there a shred of a possibility that they'll do that? >> i have no idea. i've talked with members last night, this morning. we'll see whether or not they're willing to do that. it really -- you know, there are two principle considerations that i laid out yesterday on "meet the press." one, some people have suggested that there are forces outside of congress and some inside who say they're going to win the senate, win the presidency, win the house. wait until next year, they'll get it all. and then added to that is this insistence on the bush tax cuts. if they were to take the bush tax cuts off and just let the american people decide, we could have an agreement today. >> is there something -- or some things that members on the democratic side of this super committee have given where you can actually say in this negotiation, we've given, here's what we've given, now it is your turn. what exactly have the democrats put on the table. >> we're the only ones who put almost $4 trillion deal on the table. we did that. you don't think we haven't put pain on the table? i have demonstrations outside my office. i've had rallies. i've had unbelievable amount of push-back because we were ready and prepared to put on the table some of those so-called sacred cows. i heard one of your guests earlier say we' arewhere are ths and where are the people willing to put their political careers at risk? i said that yesterday. i said we have to be willing to put our careers on the line. i'm willing. and that means taking on some of the things that people don't want to talk about. mika, we put a $1.3 trillion series of cuts on the table together with $1.3 trillion in additional revenue. that's balanced. and the $1.3 trillion in additional revenue was $700 billion less than simpson-bowles, rivlin-demin om and the gang of six said we ought to do. we've put a proposal out there. they said no. then we kept whittling backwards from there. there were some people who never wanted to do a big deal. now we're down to just trying to get the masmall $1.2 trillion t avoid sequester. i still think it is possible to do it but it requires genuine compromise on both sides. >> mark halperin. >> senator, assume for the sake of argument that the committee fails at this structure that was put into place. who would you look for to step up after -- if the committee disbands without succeeding? who would you look for to lead now? the president? the speaker? senator reid? who should the american people look to to try to solve this? >> i think there are going to be a lot of people stepping forward if the committee can't come to an agreement today. look, the president has already put a $4 trillion proposal on the table. the president showed that he was prepared to touch some of those third rails of american politics. he did that. and again people said, no, and they walked away from the deal. so i have no question the president's going to continue to lead. i believe that in congress you're going to have a lot of senators stepping up. you have the gang of six. now putting their proposal into real legislative language is a lot tougher than many people have confronted yet, but there will be a huge effort to put these choices before the congress over the next months and i think it will be the centerpiece. it will define if we fail to do this today. it will define 2012 going forward. what i'm arguing to my republican friends is, you know, we're staring at the option of failure where if you fail, there's no expedited procedure for tax reform. you're guaranteed to have -- unless it's changed, major tax increase on january 1st of 2013 when the bush tax cuts expire and so whether or not we get this, it is up to the american people. i'm simply saying to people, let's guarantee that we have a process in place for expedited tax reform. let's take the bush tax cuts and put them where they're going to be if we fail which is in the hands of the american people and produce the $1.2 trillion. we could do that today and i'm prepared to do that today. >> real willie. >> you mentioned the $1.3 trillion in painful cuts that you all proposed. i think that's important to zero in on, that you did put that forward. can you be more specific about what were in those cuts and what was particularly painful for you? >> well, i'm not going to go into all of it. i've suffered enough pain or the last week, i don't want to remind everybody. the fact is there were cuts -- incidentally, when you say "cuts," it was slowing the rate of growth. it was not a cut to a benefit, it was a slowing of the rate at which it is growing. but we did that with respect to the mandatories with respect to the health care system, with respect to the discretionary budget. we laid out a series of reductions. now let me point out -- people are missing this completely -- in the affordable health care act that we passed, there is the promise of a 25% reduction already in the cost of medicare. in addition over the last year, medicare was inflation-flat. it didn't grow in the public sector. so already the reforms that are in place are having a major impact. the center for the medicare and other experts will tell you that there's about $800 billion that we could get out of the health care system by having more effective coordinated care, less hospital admissions, better discharge procedures, coordinated care for dual eligibles. all of these experiments are going on right now. and so what we want to see is a sensible way to approach how we're going to deal with health care, not -- not give the wealthiest people in america another tax cut at the expense of seniors on fixed income. >> senator kerry, thank you for your time. good luck. >> thank you. >> still hoping. when we come back, the birth of a ballpark. we're going to look back at the first season at fenway. keep it right here on "morning joe." progresso. it fits! fantastic! 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>> yeah. i taught the boy what i knew about the game and carl taught him what he knew. >> hey, you idiot! >> well, dwight evans parked a couple homers. the sox won and by day's end, poor pen had become one of god's most pathetic creatures -- a red sox fan. >> this is fenway park. you can't buy these seats. you have to like inherit them. it's like a guy offered me $100,000 for these once. >> really. and you didn't sell them? >> no, no. if i ever need the money that bad i can always call the rich old lady. >> that was jimmy fallon in "fever pitch." next year marks the 100th anniversary of fenway park. joining us now, glen stout, author of the new book "fenway 1912, the birth of a ballpark, a championship season an fenway's remarkable first year." glen, good to have you with us. i'm a yankee fan. my whole life. i love the yankees. don't like the red sox. but fenway park is undeniable. you walk in there, there's something different about it. what is that? >> i don't think have you to be a red sox fan to be a fan of fenway. one of the reasons is not just that fenway is the oldest park left but its that he park that's changed so much over time that every time you walk into it you have a unique personal experience. the park that i first saw in 1982 was much different from the park that carl u stremsky first saw in 1961 or ted williams in 1939. that's the kind of thing that starts a conversation between generations and that's how fenway park works it into the fabric of people's lives. >> what have been the temptations over the last two decades to change the park? because we know yankee stadium gets blown up, it is all about luxury boxes, how much more money can you squeeze out of a stadium. has fenway and have the red sox owners and management been tempted to go that route? >> the previous ownership group before the henry group bought the team they wanted to tear down fenway park and build a faux fenway park right next to it that i think would have been a disaster. this group has continually has adapted and changes and evolves to different conditions. when fenway first opened it wasn't even completely surrounded by seats. but in 1912 for the world series they had to add more seats. and over time they kept doing that and this ownership group has made a lot of changes at the park to keep it financially viable and that's actually within the tradition of fenway park. it's never been preserved under glass like an antique. that's one of the reasons why it still exists today. >> glen's book proves the point, my old friend marty nolan, former editorial page editor of the "boston globe" once pointed out in an editorial tat ballpark is the real star. not the baseball team across the decades. the ballpark has always been the real star. i think that is still the case obviously. as glen just pointed out, the prior ownership which wasn't really an ownership. it was a trust run by john harrington, they tried for four or five years to get enough state funding to go along with private investment to build a new fenway park which i agree with you would have been a disaster. red sox fans and the ballpark itself lucked out when larry loquino became part of the ownership group in 2001. he built camden yards. he built petco in san diego. once that ownership group got into boston and took a look at it, they said let's rebuild this thing. let's make it even better than it is now and they have. >> in the previous ownership group, 25 years ago i wrote the 75th anniversary history of the ballpark for the year book and they were upset that i pointed out the fact that the foundations for the grandstand built in 1912 have been built to support a second deck because they wanted to foster this notion that the park was falling apart and they couldn't possibly do anything to upgrade it when in fact it had been designed to have a second deck that had just never been built. a lot of what's been done over the last ten years have just been following through on things planned actually a hundred years ago. >> part of the mythic element of the ballpark gets to the mythic element of the team and the years of disappointment that you've thrived on through your young life, willie, in that the ballpark opens in 1912 and within 24 hours after it opens the titanic sinks. you know? >> actually the titanic sank before the park opened but those two were relatively simultaneous. >> metaphor time. >> this is an eccue men cal gathering because i, too, am a yankees fan. tell us the history of the green monster. i've got a 9-year-old who asks me and i don't know. >> the history of the green monster actually begins in 1912 with duffy's cliff, the earthen embankment that ran across the left field, it was a retaining wall to keep land's down street from falling into the ballpark because the field had sunken about ten feet below the surrounding streets. the wall on top of it then which stretched up about another 25 feet, about the same dimensions as the green monster today, was built so people couldn't see into the park from the garages across the street. after the team was bought in 1933, 1934, duffy's cliff was completely removed, the wall was built as one unit and they pa painted it darthmouth green. the name green monster didn't really take hold into the 1980s in a big way. >> really. >> yeah. that is one of the things that surprised me. i could find like a reference in 1960, then in 1967 it starts to be used a little more often. but really takes hold in the 1980s. >> when you were doing this book, glen, "fenway 1912," you obviously spent a lot of time in and around writing about it, were you as stunned as the habitual red sox fan was with the improvements like the monster seats over the green monster, the left field wall, and just the additions to the ballpark? >> not -- you know, not as much as a lot of people would have been, i think. one of the things i found out while doing this book is that the very first official game at fenway park you had people sitting on top of the left field wall. you had people sitting where the green monster seats are. so from the very beginning it was an overflow crowd. you just climbed up there. from the very beginning -- >> how was that game in 1912? >> it was cool. >> it was cool? >> it's a shame because it is a great park. the fans and that stadium itself, that park, deserves better. >> you want to update the 21st century, the number of rings sox fans have compared to yankees? >> seven. most of yours were around the time of the titanic so really two lately. and then 28. >> typical of this younger generation. >> kids today. >> their institutional memory is -- >> none. >> go google world series rings in the 21st century. >> right around the time of the titanic. thanks so much for being here, glenn stout. more "morning joe" in a moment. ♪ it's easy to see what subaru owners care about. that's why we created the share the love event. get a great deal on a new subaru and $250 goes to your choice of 5 charities. with your help, we can reach $20 million dollars by the end of this, our fourth year. gives you a 50 percent annual bonus. so you earn 50 percent more cash. if you're not satisfied with 50% more cash, send it back! i'll be right here, waiting for it. who wouldn't want more cash? 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[ male announcer ] black friday's here. deals start thursday 10 pm. more electronics start at midnight. and we're open all day and night so you don't have to wait outside. walmart. so i'm glad it's with fidelity. they offer me one-on-one guidance to help me choose my investments. not just with my savings plan here at work. they help me with all of my financial goals. looking good, irene. thanks to fidelity, i can stay on top of my financial future, huh? good one. why, thank you. whether it's saving for retirement, college, or anything else, contact a fidelity investment professional today. i'm reasonably optimistic and sometimes desperately optimistic and i want to be desperately optimistic and i want to believe that countries will understand that they can actually change the course of things. >> if you look at the u.s., what are you most worried about here? >> political bickering and certainly i would hope that on the bipartisan basis, both democrats and republicans can come to terms in the super committee about the deficit objectives and the deficit cutting measures and the debt and there is a degree of certainty that is so much needed for markets. >> christine lagarde, the head of the imf on "60 minutes" last night. it is kind of embarrassing to hear her talk about us like that. time now to get a check on business before the bell with cnbc's melissa francis live at cnbc headquarters. >> you're right, mika. it is embarrassing. >> i cringed literally. i was watching that and i just thought, i know what she's going to say. >> it looks like we're not going to get it together. futures are much lower this morning. make no mistake, a lot of it has to do with european markets and the problems that are still there, european markets are much lower this morning but also weighing on the minds of investors is this idea that the super committee is going to come out some time today and just fall on their swords and say we just can't possibly get this done, we were set up to a task and we couldn't complete it. for investors, one way to look at it is if they were boards of directors for a company, we would throw them out. were you set for a task and you couldn't get it done. the other way is maybe this way you get across-the-board cuts, nobody's fingerprints are on it and some sort of real change getting us back on a fiscal track that's sustainable is attained. but just the idea that they couldn't come together and get it done. someone here had a great idea that what they should have done in the first place is had the republicans picked the democrats that would have been on the super committee and the democrats picked the republicans. in other words, you elect the guys from the other side that you would be willing to work with. that might have been a way to get something done. >> i can think of a better idea actually. my understanding is, correct me if i'm wrong, there's only one woman on this super committee? am i right? that's the problem. >> we don't bicker? we don't fight amongst ourselves? >> we will leave the room with an agreement. we will not -- i'm serious. that's actual ly why some claim we have the financial crisis in the first place. it's something about the nature that the lone woman is the chair, alex points out, which is a good point. but i'm sorry, there's a lot of men on that committee. >> well, that's true. >> i can't think of any other reason why they cannot come up with something. maybe they still will. we got a couple hours left. >> i guess they -- i actually thought that they would come up with some half-baked solution, they would come out and say we need to cut this much but we're not going to do the details, we'll send it back to the committee and they'll work it out. if they really just come out and throw up their hands, it is going to be embarrassing. >> the automatic triggers, you're not completely sure, mark halperin -- >> i'm pretty confident they won't go into effect but other big pieces have to be dealt with before next year. >> a shaky start to the week. melissa, thank you very much. up next, david letterman has an idea for herman cain's next campaign ad. the best of "late night" is next. 22 thunder slide right pickle pickle blue mocking bird pronto! mom's calling an audible. head to bedding. 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[ male announcer ] it's practically yours. but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get a jetta. that's the power of german engineering. get zero first month's payment, zero down, zero security deposit and zero due at signing on any new volkswagen. visit vwdealer.com. and zero due at signing on any new volkswagen. smal l bu and zero due at signing on any new volkswagen. sinesses are the smal lifeblood of our communities. on november 26th you can make a huge impact by shopping small on small business saturday. one purchase. one purchase is all it takes. so, pick your favorite local business... and join the movement. i pledge to shop small at big top candy shop. allen's boots... at juno baby store. make the pledge to shop small. please. shop small on small business saturday. one of two things happened with the sx ul harassment. i'm no stranger to sexual scandal. >> really! >> one of two things will happen. you will be exonerated, they will all -- you'll be like justin bieber. all of that's going away. they are all lying. >> yes, they are. >> four women, similar circumstances -- >> how did you get four? >> well, you tell me -- i'm sorry, is it 9-9-9? let me ask you, what's the deal on this guy? ♪ i am america ♪ one voice united >> what's he doing? we're in the big leagues now. you can't have a guy lighting up a butt in the middle of a campaign commercial. >> well? it was on the internet and we thought maybe people would notice. >> well here. can you use this? maybe you can work this into one of your spots next time. we got a lot of fun out of that. have you thought about that? think about that, herman. >> i don't know who your national security advisors are. is it this guy? we see this guy? hey, how you doing? yeah, come on in. yeah, there he is right there. all right. we got to go. good luck on the campaign trail. >> tonight, mitt romney is going to really let loose. get redty for mitt romney, raw and unleashed. if elected president my first act would be to repeal obama hair -- oops. i mean obama care. what an endearing flub. was there a sex scandal in my past? could be. could be. why don't we ask one of my former employees deborah singer. >> you said i was a sharp dresser. over the line. over the line. man, keep me away from the ladies because i'm a real dog, bark bark. >> tomorrow we'll talk to senate majority whip dick durbin and also this? betty white. betty white! to what do we owe the honor? up next, what, if anything, did we learn today. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about making sense out of tdd# 1-800-345-2550 what's happening right now. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, we're ready with objective insights about tdd# 1-800-345-2550 the current market and economic conditions. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and we can help turn those insights into a plan tdd# 1-800-345-2550 of action that's right for you. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck and turn complexity tdd# 1-800-345-2550 tdd# 1-800-345-2550 into clarity. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 but proven technologies allow natural gas producers to supply affordable, cleaner energy, while protecting our environment. across america, these technologies protect air - by monitoring air quality and reducing emissions... ...protect water - through conservation and self-contained recycling systems... ... and protect land - by reducing our footprint and respecting wildlife. america's natural gas... domestic, abundant, clean energy to power our lives... that's smarter power today. time now to talk about what we learned today. willie? >> i learned that against the genetic odds, two sons of our director t.j. are handsome, intelligent young men. >> hi, boys! >> and charismatic. >> come over here to me. >> a credit to their mother. >> let's protect them. >> what's up, boys? >> go ahead. >> i learned that if newt gingrich wants your vote, mika, he has to start treating occupy wall street with a lot more respect. >> i'm sorry, it was a bad start to the show today. >> i learned that for young people today there's nothing better than sitting in a baseball game eating candy. am i

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