Later this evening, the st. Louis county prosecutor will announce the grand jurys decision. While none of us knows what that will be, our shared hope and expectation is that regardless of the decision, people on all sides show tolerance, mutual respect, and restraint. Together we are all focused on making sure the necessary resources are at hand to protect lives, protect property, and protect free speech. Joining me on the ground from the Justice Center in clayton, missouri, right now is msnbc reporter tremayne lee and also nbcs legal analyst lisa bloom, and director of the black Law Enforcement alliance. Also with us by phone is congressman Emanuel Cleaver who represents parts of central missouri. Tremayne, we just heard the press conference moments ago. What is the mood where you are right now as the crowd there and really everybody across the country awaits this announcement at 9 00 . Here were outside of the courthouse in clayton, and its pretty calm heras people are awaiting this announcement in about two hours. Just about ten miles from here in ferguson, people are already gathered. There are reports of helicopters flying around. I heard one a few minutes ago, whether it be a Police Helicopter or news helicopter. But folks are awaiting this announcement. It will inevitably spark some sort of demonstration, whether its an indictment or not. So folks plan on using to opportunity, especially with the Holiday Weekend coming up, to make sure they continue to push and get out there and call for justice for mike brown and others who have been sorry go ahead. Tremayne, can you still hear me, tremayne . I can hear you. Im back. Let me ask you a question about the timing on all this. When there were protests and demonstrations this summer, to the extent there was trouble with the protests, it seemed to come later at night, the fact that the decision has been made to announce at night has people saying, why not wait until morning . Was that addressed at the press conference we just heard . It wasnt really. Governor nixon said it was up to the grand jury. But we need to keep a few things clear. While there was some violence, people have this perception that the crowd of 5 or 600 turned on police or property. And that never happened. To the point that later at night and into the early morning, there were some problems. On the two days of looting where police stood back and allowed the crowd to do what they wanted, there were some issues there. So whether or not well see a repeat of what we saw in august is yet to be seen. But those days were spawned organically. Folks poured out of those apartment complexes that lined the road. Three and a half months have gone by. People are more organized. Its yet to be seen whether well have the same type of spontaneous combustion we saw before. Those who are committed to the causes will take to the streets one or another. But now were just two hours away, well see how folks respond. Lisa bloom, lets just go through the range of possible charges here against officer wilson. Its a wide range of possibilities, starting with firstdegree murder. Thats charged with the suspect knowingly causes death after deliberation. And get death or life in prison. Seconddegree murder, knowingly causing the death of another person without deliberation. And voluntary manslaughter, a penalty of five to 15 years in jail. Unvoluntary manslaughter firstdegree, for recklessly causing a death. Carries a maximum penalty of seven years in jail. And finally, involuntary manslaughter, seconddegree, covering criminal negligence, carries a maximum pent of four years. Or, no charges. Is there a sense, if the grand jury were to return an indictment, where in that list the charges would fall . I would say seconddegree murder or voluntary or involuntary manslaughter. This case has never been a whodunnit. He picked up the gun, pointed it at mike brown and pulled the trigger intentionally. The only question, why . Did he do it in defense of himself . Or in defense of another . We know there was a skirmish at the car, mike brown then pulled away and ran a substantial distance away. Six witnesses have said mike brown was shot with his hands up. Darren wilson is accountable for every bullet that he fired out of his gun. Did he fire the final fatal shots in anger . In hostility because of an emotional disturbance . If so, that would be murder or manslaughter. Or did he do it because he was afraid for himself or afraid for another . Thats something he would have to persuade the gorgeous to get a no indictment. Congressman, you represent a different part of missouri, more the western part. But obviously this is your home state, this is your home region. When youre looking at the crowds gathering in ferguson, im curious what youre thinking right now and what youre expecting to see tonight. Well, i was in ferguson a week ago. And i think one of the things that has to be emphasized over and over again and that is that there are a lot of very educated, very socially minded young people, who have gone through all kinds of training, in order to present their case through direct action, through nonviolent direct action, in a way that delivers the message and as clearly as possible, and that is that they are angry over the fact that we have not only Michael Brown who has been gunned down, an unarmed African American teenager, but its happened repeatedly. We had one yesterday in cleveland with with a 12yearold shot and killed with a toy gun. One of the things to be noted, its been somewhat out of the discussion, and that is, no matter what the grand jury does tonight, the fbi and the Justice Department are in fact conducting a parallel investigation. So a grand jury doesnt mean that this Police Officer wont be indicted. It means that the grand jury is not going to indict. Now the prosecutor doesnt need a grand jury in order to indict. The fbi doesnt need the grand jury in order to present information or evidence to the Justice Department for an indictment. So, this is not necessarily the end, no matter what the grand jury does tonight, whether they say issue a new true bill, which means they will not recommend indictment. Or if they say that its involuntary manslaughter, which is probably the only charge, i think, they would probably do. Congressman, im curious as to your response to the Governors Press conference. He had already called a state of emergency. In terms of the public statements hes made, how he handled himself tonight, how hes prepared the government in missouri for the decision tonight, what is your assessment of that . Well, i would have preferred that the governor not necessarily called out the national guard. However, its difficult to know exactly what to do if youre in the governors seat. So i think hes looking at, you know, the possibility that something could go wrong, something could go badly wrong, and he would end up being blamed. Now, i think the governors comments tonight, i would like to have been involved in helping him or his staff craft what he said, because i think one of the things that is extremely important, and it is that young people understand that their pain is not wrong. So we need to let them know not only that we understand their pain, but all decent americans, black or white or brown, should also feel the pain of a family and a community of a young 18yearold kid shot down. And so i think, if i had been involved in the drafting of his comments, it would have been along the lines that, look, i understand youre hurt. I understand that theres a lit any of these kinds of things happening around the country and we got to make sure that we deal with Law Enforcement at the same time that we deal with the anger that young people are feeling. Mark, let me ask you, theres been a lot of attention from the president of the United States, president obama on down to making sure to making statements in advance of this decision tonight, trying to emphasize to the protesters, not to turn violent in any way. Everybody wants to. Wants to avoid that. How does Law Enforcement draw the line between actions that are designed to prevent violence from happening, and actions that end up almost encouraging that kind of response . Well, its very difficult, and its a very thin line often times. But lets be clear about something. Youre talking about Law Enforcement professionals, who are supposedly well trained to address and deal with these type of situations and just as importantly, theyre paid to address these situations. Law enforcement is there and they dont get paid for what they do. They get paid for what they may have to do one day. This is one of the difficult positions theyll be put in tonight. But there should be no concern about Law Enforcements perspective on this. What should concern folk is the priorities of the local government there in st. Louis. It appears to me clearly that the priority is the protection of certain people and certain property, over justice. If you dont understand the nature of the complaints, of the concern, and of the passion that people feel, the protesters feel, then you can never effectively engage and resolve these issues. And i wonder, mark, when you look back to what happened this summer, its been several months now, and theres been communication between Law Enforcement and members of the community in advance of tonight. If theres one key lesson that you hope that Law Enforcement and local government could take from this summer, what would it be . Lets be clear about something else. This has been the most inept governmental and Police Response that ive ever witnessed. Perhaps in modern history. Definitely as it relates to dealing or addressing issues of unarmed civilians being shot by the police. So its difficult to find a lesson or something you could take out of this, that is in any way positive. Its been bungled from the very beginning. It really is a lesson in what not to do when responding to these types of incidents, who not to have speak for you, who not to have represent you. It really is a classic case of what not to do. It should be a textbook case for Police Departments, police agencies, and Law Enforcement agencies throughout the nation of what not to do. Because this is an atrocity, what has disorder up to this point. Im talking about both the governmental response, the prosecutors response, and the Police Response that occurred over the summer. All right, thank you all. Appreciate you joining us tonight. We continue to follow the developments out of ferguson. Well be staying with the story throughout this hour as we await the grand jurys announcement. This is hardball, the place for politics. D titans. For respawn, building the best Interactive Entertainment begins with the cloud. This is titanfall, the first multiplayer game built and run on microsoft azure. Empowering gamers around the world to interact in ways they never thought possible. This cloud turns data into excitement. This is the microsoft cloud. Youre down with crestor. 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Request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider the ultimate arena for business. Hour after hour of diving deep, touching base, and putting ducks in rows. The only problem with Conference Calls eventually they have to end. Unless you have the comcast business voiceedge mobile app. It lets you switch seamlessly from your desk phone to your mobile with no interruptions. Ive never felt so alive. Get the future of phone and the phones are free. Comcast business. Built for business. I do not want people in this community to think they have to barricade their doors and take up arms. We are not that kind of a community. I do not want people to accidentally shoot or arm someone out of fear. This is not the time to turn on each other. It is a time to turn to each other. We are one community. Welcome back to hardball. More now on tonights big story out of ferguson, missouri, where a grand jury has reached a decision in the shooting of Michael Brown. That was st. Louis county executive charlie dooley, calling for calm as we await the grand jurys announcement set for 9 00 eastern time. Michael browns case has exposed deep and profound wounds in a community that has experienced harassment and prejudice. The refrain from the protesters, they want justice, but dont trust the Justice System to carry it out. So what happens now . What justice are we talking about . We have a reporter on the ground in ferguson. In terms of defining, we hear the refrain yesterday, what does that mean to protesters . Specifically what would they define as justice in this case . A number of protesters are hoping for an indictment, but its still unclear what the decision will be. Theyre also calling for justice not just in mike browns case, but for Police Brutality all across the country. Theyre taking his case to stand for a National Issue that they want to say black lives matter. And so theyre taking to the streets already. Were seeing small crowds gather in front of the Ferguson Police department and we expect the numbers to grow as night falls. And as authorities said earlier today, they reiterated they wanted peaceful protests, they wanted things to remain calm, but they also said they do not want to see damage to property and they will not allow any type of violence. So well see as the night falls. Thank you, amanda live from ferguson. Im joined by michelle bernard, president of the Bernard Center for women, a special assistant to president obama on matters of faith. And the Orlando Police chief. Michelle, let me start with you on the issue and we heard from amanda saying protesters looking for at the very least an indictment here. I wonder, is there any room, because theres certainly a possibility this grand jury is going to say, we looked at the evidence and we dont think there should be an indictment here, we dont think this officer should be tried for manslaughter or anything along the lines. Is there any room to say, they looked at this, the evidence is out there and theres no room to proceed. Is there room for that conclusion to be reached by any of the protesters, do you think . I think the only way that anyone whos looking at this literally and objectively can reach the same conclusion is if we know a little bit actually, a lot more about the facts. There are many people out there, who i completely disagree with, i want to say that first, who have referred to Michael Brown who got what he had coming towards him. All these talks about him somehow accosting the Police Officer, damage to the Police Officers orbital socket, that may or may not be true. Honestly, we dont know yet. We need to have the evidence. If this officer truly and objectively had reason to believe that he was in eminent danger or in fear of his life or the fear of others and that was the reason why he had to shoot someone who had their hands up and from some accounts was running away from him, i think that maybe people maybe people will reach that conclusion. Its difficult, weve heard the evidence i mean, we dont know what the grand jury has heard yet. We only know what we have seen and read from witnesses that day. At least from what ive seen from six people, six witnesses who say that Michael Brown had his hands up in the air and was compliant with the wishes of that Police Officer. I dont know how you can account for all of the bullets that tore through his body that day. Joshua, from the other standpoint on this, lets say if there were to be an indictment tonight f the grand jury were to come back and say we think a case should be tried on the following charge. Given all the skepticism about how the prosecutor has handled this case, the protesters dont feel his heart has been inn making a case. If theres an indictment, do you think they would have any faith in the prosecutor to try the case . I think it would be a step in the right direction. It would help to have the evidence brought out into the open in a full and open jury trial, and for folks to be able to see exactly what facts occurred on the ground. I think another challenge is the prosecutor himself. I mean, as we know, grand juries are almost entirely controlled by the prosecutor. And this is a man who is so close to Law Enforcement, he might as well be coming into work in a blue uniform and a badge. His father, his uncle, his brother, all work for the st. Louis county Police Department. His mother was a clerk for the Police Department. Theres a reason why people are skeptical and smelling something rotten in the state of missouri. From a Law Enforcement background here, how in a case like this, this is going before the grand jury. We dont know yet and maybe we will find out, but we dont know what this grand jury has heard. What would it take to satisfy people on either side of this, looking at this who dont have access to this kind of evidence . If we dont get all of the evidence thats been presented to the grand jury, is there anything that could come out on this that would satisfy people that this is what happened . Youre right. We dont know yet what we dont opinion a. Until the evidence is presented, we dont know what witnesses have said. The witnesses that corroborate officer wilsons account of the incident. We dont know if the physical evidence supports or disputes his account. But i do know that the good law abiding citizens in ferguson who are protesting, are seeking justice. And were all just waiting to see what the grand jurys decision will be. But unless the evidence truly supports the decision and the people clearly understand that, i think its going to be a long night and a long time before these citizens will be feel better about what has happened in ferguson. And what josh was just saying about the connection between the prosecutor mcculloch, his family, and his personal connection to the Law Enforcement community, the idea that that would make it difficult for him to be truly objective and sort of remove himself sufficiently to handle a case like this. What do you make of that argument . Thats legitimate, a conflict of interest . I wont say theres a conflict of interest, until we see a conflict of interest there. We find frequently in Law Enforcement communities where people are related to each other, prosecutors are related to Police Officers and so he is the person that was chosen by the county in ferguson. And were just going to have to see if the suspicions that people have about their being a conflict of interest really pay themselves out tonight. And the other issue here, again, if there was no indictment tonight, as congressman cleaver was saying in the last segment, still the possibility that federal charges could be filed. Do we have any sense or signals, that this is something that the Justice Department, the administration, do they have any appetite potentially for getting involved in this . With the stepping down of eric holder sometime in the near future, we dont know whats in store for us at the federal level. And this is part of the problem. And i think why you see so many members of the African American community, and others quite frankly, outraged by what seemed to not be happening in ferguson. It started with the gina 6 in louisiana and i believe back then, there was a petition that was going around that said basically we could not allow people like the District Attorney to turn our Police Department, our Police Forces and our court system into basically instruments of intimidation and oppression. And it feels like the same thing is happening in ferguson. And once again, when we get into this debate about the proper role of government, do we need a big government, do we need a small government, and we hear people on the right incessantly talking about states rights, there are people that wear my skin every day that say this is why we dont want to hear about states rights, because over and over and over again, our state governments show us that the only protection, the only time theres equality of law for people of color, is if the federal government has the opportunity to intervene. And i am hoping that the Justice Department will intervene in this case no matter what happens. Because as ive said on this program before, it feels like theres been a war on black boys and black men in this country, and we see it over and over and over again. And Michael Brown is the latest casualty of that war on black boys. All right, michelle bernard, val, appreciate you all joining us tonight. Up next, well go back to ferguson as we await the decision from the grand jury. This is hardball, the place for politics. Ing dock. There should be a truck leaving now. I got it. Now jump off the bridge. What . In 3. 2. 1. Are you kidding me . Go. Right on time. Right now, over 20,000 trains are running reliably. We call that predictable. Thrillingly predictable. Get to the terminal across town. Are all the green lights you . No. Its called grid iq. The 4 51 is leaving at 4 51. They cut the power. Itll fix itself. Powers back on. Quick thinking traffic lights and self correcting power grids make the world predictable. Thrillingly predictable. You drop 40 grand on a new set of wheels, then. Wham a minivan tbones you. Guess what your Insurance Company will only give you 37thousand to replace it. Depreciation they claim. How can my car depreciate before its first oil change . You ask. Maybe the better question is, why do you have that Insurance Company . With Liberty Mutual new car replacement, well replace the full value of your car. See Car Insurance in a whole new light. Liberty mutual insurance. Welcome back to hardball. Anxiety runs high as ferguson awaits the grand jury decision. Law enforcement has vowed to facilitate Peaceful Demonstrations hoping to avoid a repeat of what we saw in august. We are joined now from ferguson. Ryan, Law Enforcement wants to avoid a repeat. Whats different . We dont know, honestly. Because we havent seen the massive demonstration that we saw back in august. The response in front of the Police Department in recent days has been varied depending on who is in charge at the time. On saturday night, you had a commander handling things responsibly and going up to protesters, talking with them oneonone, treating them like human beings and essentially telling them, they had to get out of the street, if anyone was blocking it and allows them to move out of the street without taking people into custody. At the same time, there was a commander who took a journalist into custody who was on the sidewalk and they put out false information that he was on the street, despite the fact that he was clearly in the sidewalk at that point and theres video proving it. So it really depends on exactly who is in charge in different situations. And the structure has been an issue. Its not clear sometimes who is in command in these various situations. Because theres going to be such a large response that could continue to be an issue here. Theres Law Enforcement and theres protesters. The protesters who are residents, from around ferguson, these people want peaceful protests, cooperate with Law Enforcement and that the issue comes in when outsiders come in and, as we saw over the summer, come in late at night, change the nature of the protest, of whats going on a little bit. Is that an accurate perception ever the dynamic out there . When we say outsiders, where are these people coming from . In local media, the term outsiders is just overused. Everything is interconnected. So when you say someone is out of town, thats a couple blocks away. But there are people who do want some conflict with the police and thats often sort of the they create situations to actually make that happen. So sometimes the best strategy might be for police to sit back, if nothings happening. And we saw that in shaw last night, which was largely peaceful. At one point, there was a reporter who got hit in the head with perhaps a rock. We arent exactly sure. But for the most part it was peaceful and the police cleared the streets for the protesters. There were a couple of tense moments probably for people who were trying to make their way through there and were in cars at the time. But everything went fine and smoothly. The issue is sometimes when police create a point of conflict that people run up and yell. Thats what we saw often in front of the Ferguson Police department when the police came out and made their presence known. A lot of the protesters would rush over to yell at them. Ryan live from ferguson, thank you for joining us. Appreciate that. Up next, up more from ferguson as we await that grand jury decision. Youre watching hardball, the place for politics. Its not about how many miles you can get out of the cmax hybrid. Its about how much life you can fit into it. The ford cmax hybrid. With an epaestimated range of 540 miles on a tank of gas. And all the room you need to enjoy the trip. Go stretch out. 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Ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30tablet trial. Im page hopkins, heres whats happening. Defense secretary chuck hagel is stepping down after less than two years in the post. Officials say he was forced to resign. Hell stay on until a replacement is concerned. A noreaster is set to hit the east coast to complicate thanksgiving travel. A foot of snow may fall inland. Secretary of state john kerry says progress has been made in talks with iran. Now were going to take you back to hardball. Were back with more on that breaking news of a grand jury decision in the Michael Brown shooting. This weekend president obama was asked what his message was for protesters in ferguson. Heres what he said. I think first and foremost, keep protests peaceful. You know, this is a country that allows everybody to express their views, but using any event as an excuse for violence is contrary to rule of law and contrary to who we are. Are you worried here . You know, we saw during the summer, the possibility of even overwhelmingly peaceful crowds being overrun by a few thugs. What ive done is called jay nixon, the governor of missouri, to make sure that he has a plan to respond in a careful and appropriate way to any potential violence. For more now were joined by craig melvin at the Justice Center in clayton. So craig, that message from the president , is that something that has trickled down and resonated with protesters and with Law Enforcement on the ground out there . So far. So far. But again, its still very early. The decision itself has not been announced yet. I think weve seen some pictures from outside the Ferguson Police department. The Ferguson Police department has become ground zero, if you will, for protests over the past week or two. This is the scene outside the Police Department now. For a number of days, this is the largest crowd weve also seen, although from this Vantage Point its difficult to discern how many of these people are protesters and how many of these folks are like me and you, covering the protests. But weve seen a number of arrests here. Weve not seen violent clashes, but this is where weve seen the most activity over the past few weeks. Heres the thing also, a number of the larger protest organizers have said tonight is not going to be the night when they are out. A number of the larger protest organizers say they have events planned for tomorrow and the day after that. Weve also learned this afternoon that Michael Browns parents, no matter the outcome, not going to be seen or heard from tonight. Theyre planning an event for 11 00 tomorrow morning. So, so far, largely peaceful. A number of the protest organizers, Law Enforcement as well, theyve said to me over the past week or so, you know, this idea that the streets are going to look like they did in the days after the Michael Brown shooting, that notion is a silly one. Again, its early, the decision hasnt come down, but there are a lot of folks on the ground here in ferguson, who contend that there is a chasm between expectations and what will actually happen here. Craig melvin in clayton, missouri, thanks for joining us. Im joined now by the roundtable, jujeen robinson, mother jones and opinion writer the washington post, jonathan capehart. Gene, we heard what the period said in advance of this announcement tonight. Should we be expecting to hear from the president after this . Do you think this is something hes going to be weighing in on in the next few days . Well, in the next few days, it kind of depends on what happens, to tell you the truth. And what the reaction is. So the president often when he wades into these racial controversies, it seems to raise the temperature, rather than lower it. I think through no fault of his own, but thats ngot to be something in mind if he decides ho you to react. The other people asking, should the president go to ferguson. He was asked that this weekend by George Stephanopoulos on abc. Do you think it makes sense for to you go to ferguson after this decision . You know, im going to wait and see how the response comes about. But what does make sense is for, not just me, but my entire administration, to work with willing partners at the state and local level to see how we can address some of these issues. Jonathan capehart, he was just getting into this. When the president has waded into racial matters, the response has been sort of conflicted, i guess you could say across the country in terms of what its stirred up. The president going to ferguson, potentially, if he did that, how do you think that would go over . Not only in the community, but nationally . It depends on what happens after the decision, and in the days after the decision. The president made it clear, as he even said, well have to wait and see. But i would argue that if the president decides to go to ferguson, it has to be just it has to be more than just for the photo op. He has to go to Say Something real and substantive and concrete. As i was saying to robert, the producer, earlier, that i would argue that the president give a speech on race akin to the speech he gave in philadelphia when his campaign was on the rocks. It was, to me, one of the most important political speeches i had heard, and certainly one of the best speeches on race ever delivered in this country. And given all the things that we have seen come to light as a result of the shooting of Michael Brown, and as the president said, the systemic failures that have been revealed in ferguson, a speech like that from the president of the United States would be very, very helpful, i think. And david, theres the question of the speeches and public appearance. Those gestures the president could make. But the other question, what would his administration potentially do if theres no indictment in terms of the Justice Department, the fbi having their investigation, and federal charges potentially being brought . Is that something, when you look at the history of the Justice Department and the priorities of this administration, do you think thats a reasonable expectation, that protesters might have, that the Justice Department might end up getting involved in this . It might be harder for the Justice Department to get involved in the particular case involving Michael Brown and officer wilson. The Justice Department under tom perez when he was assistant general attorney general for labor rights, actually set a Record Number of investigations of abusive Police Departments and negotiated a lot of settlements with those departments to improve their practices. Its really been one of the Great Success stories of eric holders Justice Department. So whether they can come in and do anything with ferguson, in the aftermath of, lets say, things not going well there, i dont know. But it is an area in which the whole Justice Department and the Obama Administration have shown a true commitment. So i dont think that would go away at the end of this. So maybe theres a way to come in and deal with what the president called the systemic problems at hand. And we heard from the governor of missouri, theres been indications of tension between the white house, between the administration, eric holder at the Justice Department, and jay nixon over the actions hes taken in the runup to tonight. How serious do you think that is . I think theres tension among all the players. Because eric holder is not pleased with governor nixon. Governor nixon did not seem pleased with the county prosecutors decision to release the decision tonight rather than say in the daytime. He said thats their call. So all these Authority Figures seem to be on different pages when it comes to how to orchestrate this. And what to do, frankly. And they may well be at odds as to the underlying facts and the merits of a case against officer wilson. Yeah, jonathan, i guess thats one of those questions, the state of emergency the dlfr declared, you could see, we had congressman cleaver who was saying look, its maybe not the best thing. On the other hand, if something were to happen and he hadnt declared a state of emergency, he would be responsible for that. Well, see, it was the wrong tone. I dont argue with his action. But his tone throughout has been punitive and lecturing to people who are demonstrating and protesting with good reason. He could have just said, this is a procedural thing, i have to declare a state of emergency now, so that if something happens, we can have all of these assets and resources at our fingertips and not have to wait hours or days when they might be critically needed. I think from the very beginning, its been a problem of tone as much as message coming from governor nixon. Actually, from all the leaders in missouri. All right, stay with us. More on the other side of the break. We are waiting, again, for the grand Jury Announcement from ferguson, missouri. But there were was news tonight. Chuck hagel is out. Well get to that and obviously much more from ferguson, right after this. Discover card. I just received a text from discover hq . Yep. We check every purchase, every day and alert you if anything looks suspicious. Nice. 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Thats about. 100 app downloads, 45 hours of streaming music, and 6 hours of video playing. singing and five golden rings ha, i see what you did. singing four calling birds. Three french hens. the guys starts to fizzle out two. Turtle. Doves. I really went for it there ya you did. You really, really did now get 3 gigs of data on one line for 65 a month. Switch to at t, buy a new smartphone and get 150 credit per line. We are back as we await the grand jury decision out of ferguson, missouri. Our roundtable still with us. Theres another major breaking story today, the resignation of chuck hagel. The president announced the departure this morning. Ive known him, admired him and trusted him for nearly a decade, since i was a. Theres one thing i know about chuck is that he does not make this or any dgsz lightly. Hagel also spoke at the ceremony. Its been the greatest privilege of my life, the greatest privilege of my life to lead in most important to serve, to serve with the men and women of the Defense Department and support their families. I am immensely proud of what weve accomplished during this time. The sendoff was coral jal, but the reality was reportedly a different story. Senior defense Officials Say that hagel was forced to resign. The white house had lost confidence in him. The one senior official, he wasnt up to the job. David, i think this was something today. You had these two men, Vice President biden with them, as well. Appearing before the press. It sounds like a president ial medal freedom citation or something. Hes hugging him, hagel is tearing up. And then an hour later, all of these voices are telling the press terrible things about him. Whats going on . It was a very ugly demin strags. Even before he got up there to speak, i think nbc got up there. It was clear from the beginning rgs his confirmation made supporters of the president grim mass as he didnt seem fully prepared to answer questions from his own colleagues. And in the last year, weve seen these tremendous crises that the pentagon has been very nimble to respond to, whether itss isis, ebola, ukraine to a certain extent. Over and over again, reporters in town heard that he really wasnt being heard or listened to or part of the significant deliberations in how to deal with this stuff in the way that robin gaets had been and even Hillary Clinton had been when she was secretary of state. So it was surprising weeks ago when it seemed he was committed to staying because, you know, things are kind e kind of only haeting up in places. Of course, this weekend came the news that he was extending combat missions in afghanistan. So it was no surprise that chuck hagel would be asked to leave. But i think it was surprised how impolite the ini have tagsz was. Yeah, well, just quickly, gene, does this tell us anything bigger about the Foreign Policy administration . The idea here was this was a dome cattic president and that there was this sort of realist Foreign Policy common ground. Does this tell us anything about ground opening up there . It might be a question as to what it means for the war and iraq and syria. Part of one line you were hearing today was that chuck hagel was hicked to be, essentially, a peacetime defense secretary. And what is now needed is a wartime secretary. Thats worrisome. Hagel was all over the map in the threats Islamic State presented and he was kind of over the top at various points. Hourve, congenitally, a vietnam veteran, they were skeptic about the second iraq war, george w. Bushs iraq war. He was someone who i think we could have counted onto kind of put on the brakes. And i worry about how slippery the slope is getting. All right. Appreciate all of you being here tonight. Up next, back to our top story. The grand jury dgsz in ferguson, missouri. Msnbcs chris hayes will join us from moe mo when we return. Youre watching hardball the place for politics. Whoa if you have dandruff sign up for shampoodelivery. Com get out of here 50 off laser hair removal. Youve been matched. Linda s. Is only 3. 2 miles away. No no no. Request accepted. Match confirmed. Message from linda. Whats up brandon . Control your entire home without your private data ever being shared. Introducing wink. Its like a robot butler, but not as awkward. How in argentina,rass change engineering in dubai, aluminum production in south africa, and the Aerospace Industry in the u. S. . At t. Rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. Its just one reason over 70 of our mutual funds beat their 10year lipper average. T. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. Request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. Welcome back to hardball. We are on high alert right now for the verdict in whether or not to try officer wilson in the shooting of Michael Brown. Chris, erp out there this summer, youre back out there right now. Im just curious, were all anticipating this. What are your thoughts right now an hour before this decision is announced. My overriding thought, i think its worth while to take a moment, take a step back and think about just how strange and sur real the process has played out since august has been. County prosz cue xx Bob Mccullough, a man who many people wanted to step aside. He did not step aside. There was no special prosecutor apointed. He ended uptaking charge of this and presenting evidence to a grand jury. Again, this is not a trial, we are not awaiting a verdict. We are awaiting an announcemented to a possible insdietment from a grand jury. And that grand jury has been highly anomalous. Prosecutors can routinely charge themselves without going to a grand jury. If and when they do go to a grand jury, theres the old saying the prosecutor can indict a hand e ham sandwich. The standard is much lower than a trial. Its also the case that prosecutors can basically present their side of the case. They can present enough of the case to get probable cause and get an indictment. That is not what has played out here. Whats played out here is a very strange and highly unusual process in which behind closed doors, meeting once or twice a week over the course of several pontds, prosecutor Bob Mccullough says he would prebt all evidence to the grand jury and would not add voe kate a specific charge and the grand jury would be left to make that dgsz for themselves. We know that theres been a lot of testimony. We know that Darren Wilson hems, the man who has been waiting at this hour whether he will face trial or not, he testified for hours. That, too, is rather anomalous. So what you have now is all eyes now are on clayton and the Justice Center behind me where Bob Mccullough, people have an anticipation as if this were the vrkt itself. Well, we are one hour away from that announcement. But the dgsz from the grand jury, chris hayes, live in clayton, missouri. Back at the top of the hour. As we await that dgsz. Thats hardball for now. Our cover rang continues on all in. Good evening. Im chris hayes with a special live edition of kwt all in. Clayton missouri is the county seet that surrounds the city of saint lewis, its in north county about 10 miles from here in ferguson missouri where an unarmed teenager was shot and killed by a Police Officer, Darren Wilson. We are awaiting of whether Darren Wilson will be indicted. Its a culmination of a long process for sel