Transcripts For MSNBCW Dateline Extra 20190930

I said, what do you mean somebody came into her house and murdered her . Who murdered her . I want to get out of the marriage as soon as possible. Reporter was there an even bigger secret buried in this box . Were realizing, wait, there was a former wife . We final come around this turn. The whole side of the mountain is on fire. Reporter marriage, money, and murder. When people say i know how you feel, you have no idea how i feel. I dont want you to know how i feel because no one should ever feel this way. Reporter deadly twist. Hello and welcome to dateline extra. Im craig melvin. Rachel and todd were living a life of luxury, a nice home, fancy cars and private planes. But behind closed doors, police found that things were far from perfect. And what they discovered would launch an investigation that had them digging into the past, sending them clear across the country, searching for answers. Here is Keith Morrison. The night was profoundly dark. Even the meager moonlight was shut out. As the driver rushed too fast, desperate to save the passengers life. What were they doing up here . So far from civilization. From safety. What answers did the fire consume . As one of them was launched on a path as dark and twisted as the Mountain Road itself. One evil begetting another and another until. This whole story is a mixture of murder, blood, failings, grace, heaven and god and so theres some real craziness to it. But to begin, 25 hundred miles west of that remote mountain trail in georgia is one of the more civilized places on earth napa, california. World famous wineries, michelin starred restaurants. Here lived a beautiful woman, who loved four admiring men. Her father, the prominent artist. Her husband, the exFighter Pilot and pharmaceutical executive. Her lover, the handyman, exmarine and firearms expert. And her first boyfriend, the wouldbe impressionist painter. His name is tim cherrington. And she the woman at the center of all that happened, was rachel. Rachel hatfield. Reporter so rachel. Tell me about her. Oh, [beep]. Im sorry. Were starting, huh . Reporter well. Just whatever. Hmm start again. Reporter whatd that do to you when i said that . My heart just went, boom. The subject of rachel, as you can plainly see, is painful for tim cherrington. A pain that might lessen if hed only learn to forget. But all he can do is remember. Like the night they first met. It was a july night, a party. And she was dancing. And i said, wow, im gonna meet that girl. Reporter how old were you . I was 18 and i think she was 17. Reporter oh. Wow. Lovedrunk teens. They set up house together. Thats tim during those giddy years, rarely serious. Looking like a character from the movie dazed and confused. And theres rachel, unconsciously glamorous. Like some movie star in her own romantic comedy, with a plot that was all too familiar. Aspiring artists waiting for their break. Reporter could she see making a life as a painter . Yeah, she could. Rachel could picture it because she had seen it happen. Her own father, don hatfield, made a big name for himself painting the romantic, bucolic beach scenes that for years have graced living rooms around the country. You may have seen his how to paint courses on youtube. This is called, for me. Its called, aiming your shot. Rare is the artist who, like don, could comfortably raise four kids in the napa valley. But, though many are called, few are chosen. Tims artistic hopes were disappointed. It wasnt happening. It wasnt happening. So he and rachel lowered their sights and hustled up any worklike murals that might help cover the rent. We were, you know, doing murals, and thats all the income we had. Reporter murals doesnt pay all that well. No, it doesnt pay much at all. She was undergirding and supporting, loving, and directing tim. Don hatfield thought his daughter would outgrow tim. After all, rachel, unlike tim, buckled down and went to college. You know, graduates at top of her class at sonoma state, recruited by deloitte and touche and they started her out at 80k. We want you not, i wanna do a little business of my own, you know . And she and tim would run around and do stuff. Reporter paint murals and so forth . Yeah. Reporter were they any good . Not really. But she loved him nonetheless. Fourteen years this went on. Rachel wanted to get married and have kids. And i havent asked her to marry me yet. And reporter did you wanna have kids . I did. I did. I did, but i just wasnt there yet, you know what im saying . Well. Its an old story, isnt it . Tim was blindsided by what happened next. Rachel met another man, someone who was everything tim was not. Todd winkler. Focused, disciplined. A former f16 Fighter Pilot, who was on track to be a corporate leader. Tim scrambled. And i went and bought a ring real quick to propose to her. And i did. It was too late by then, of course. Rachel turned him down, and announced her engagement to todd. It was really hard, you know, because the love of my life was leaving me for some guy that had a good job and a house and a boat and a nice car. Tim, to me, was rachels soul mate. He was nothing but loving and kind to her. We were both twentyonce. Hard to watch, said rachels closest friend, shannon thurman. She called me when she broke up with him and said, you know were done. I wanna have a family, hes not ready to have a family. And so, you know, were done. And then literally like two months later, she called me and said, you know, you need to be here in two days, im getting married. And i was like, oh, great. You guys made made up. And shes like, no, we didnt make up. We you know, its its this other guy, his name is todd, and you need to be here in two days. Tim didnt go to the wedding, couldnt handle it, went to a bar to escape it. He had no idea the Wedding Party would swoop into his bar for a round of toasts. It was hard, man, watching your girl on this big guy with her hot pink dress on and he was carrying her. Hes the guy thats got it going on and shes a pretty girl. And they look like a great couple. I just i mean, i cant imagine what what that would be like. I just cant. Yeah. Its hard. Reporter to be the guy who gets dumped is bad. Its bad. I quit painting, you know, as soon as i found out she married todd. And i just had no energy. I had no oomph. I no inspiration. I had given up. So, what does this brokenhearted love story have to do with a fiery mountain crash . More than you could possibly imagine. My mind this was not an accident. Our friend was was murdered. I i truly believe that. A married womans complicated love life. One of rachels lovers is gone, but not forgotten. I thought maybe you know later on down the road, we can, you know, get together again and share life again. And theres a new lover on the horizon. I couldnt get her off my mind. When deadly twist continues. Raise your steins to the king of speed. I cant believe it. That sophie opened up a wormhole through time . speaking japanese where am i . woman speaking french are you crazy nuts . Cyclist pip pip woman speaking french im here, look at me. Its completely your fault. man speaking french ok . Its me. Its my fault . No, i cant believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on my Car Insurance with geico. pterodactyl screech believe it. Geico could save you 15 or more on Car Insurance. Full of flavor. Texture. Color. Full of energy. Full of. Woo its fresh and filling. This bowl is full of good. So you can be too. Try a new baja or mediterranean warm grain bowl today. Panera food as it should be. Warm grain bowl today. I am royalty of racing, i am the twisting thundercloud. Raise your steins to the king of speed. Reporter history, for all we may try to slip its inconvenient grip is a sticky business and is rarely as done with us as we would choose to be with it. We make debts we must pay. Rachel hatfield turned her life as if on a dime, left her past behind and embraced an existence that was everything it wasnt with old boyfriend tim. When she married todd winkler, the exFighter Pilot turned corporate executive, she also married into a very different lifestyle. There were private airplanes, boats, and motorcycles. A big house in a development east of sacramento called an airpark. Cessnas in garages, piper cubs on the curb. Tim charrington versus todd winkler . No contest, said her dad, don hatfield. The guys an air force academy graduate. Hes successful in business. Hes a family man. Hes you know, from the midwest. Hes gotta be great. Reporter good, solid uppermiddle class guy . Yeah, no. Reporter and hes got a plane and hes got planes and boats and you know, all over the place. What tim, the starving artist could offer, beyond love and loyalty, was a whole lot of nothing. Todd, on the other hand. We went to orlando with them to disney world. Reporter and he was picking up the bill for this stuff . Yeah. Most of the time, yeah. Don had no way of knowing that tim was, for a time, still in rachels life. Sort of. Reporter you didnt lose touch completely. No, we really kept in touch, and why would they do that . Maybe because her marriage, rachel led tim to believe, wasnt all apple pie and ice cream. Because she wanted to share with me what was going on. Reporter what did she tell you . She shared with me that todd took her credit cards and maxed them all out and bought a plane and just put her in debt for, like, 45,000. Reporter whoa. I was, like, whoa. Im all, arent you freaking out . And she said, yeah, but we hell take care of it. Which, when he thought about it, sounded less like complaining than, maybe boasting. Tim, after all, could barely qualify for credit at all. Eventually, being on the outside looking in was just too hard. I couldnt take it no more. Its, you know it was getting harder and harder. So he asked her to stop calling him. He had to move on, start painting again, forget her, though as he admitted to us, he wasnt very successful. I thought, you know, maybe later on down the road, we can, you know, get together again and share life again. Wishful thinking, of course. Tim simply failed to understand that rachels life with husband todd was getting more exciting by the day. When todds company sent him to live briefly in australia, he invited rachels dad to visit and paid his way. Every night, after work, boom, were going to cirque du soleil, to comedy clubs, to dinners. I mean, it was a big it was a sixweek party down there. But it was back home in the airpark, where the winklers social life blossomed. Gosh, we have all kinds of things, from oktoberfest in october where the neighbors get together. Christmas parties, easter, valentines day parties. Ice cream social and paper airplanes. Ice cream socials. These were the neighbors. Rich and linda johnson. Lina and Marion Cockrell. Todd had one airplane in the hangar and one in the driveway. They loved having an exFighter Pilot for a neighbor. Todd was always i mean, he was just a genuinely interesting guy. He would yeah. Make eye contact with you. He always wanted to know about my job. What sorta cases are you working on . What kind of law do you practice . I had actually kind of looked at todd as kind of a guys guy. Reporter you enjoyed their company. We did. Enjoyed todd a little more than rachel, maybe. I knew her less well than i knew todd, i feel. I feel like we were both in the same place in our lives, but sort of moving in different circles and reporter and she wasnt one of those people who kind you immediately were attracted to or talked to her in or or or what . No. I dont i really liked her but she always seemed a little bit distant. Very polite, very friendly but a little bit distant. You want to go over there . Yeah. Lets go over there. By 2009, rachel and todd had two little daughters eva and ariel. He always seemed very involved and very engaged with the kids and to me, always seemed to be trying to help rachel and give her a break. Rachel and todd to us were like the Perfect Little family. Reporter mhmm. They were both very proactive reporter yes. Loving parents, caring parents as well to each other, a couple. They seemed like the perfect couple. And in our experience, we saw todd more on a social level with the kids than we saw rachel. Not every day, mind you. Todd landed a lucrative job with an International Pharmaceutical company. Grew expense account soft on his deskbound track toward what he called a c suite as in ceo. The only catch was, his office was a long drive away in the San Francisco bay area and, not wanting to uproot his family, todd got an apartment in town, returning home to the airpark for the weekends. Which meant of course, that rachel was now anchored to home, and two toddlers, monday through friday. She was soon quite restless. So she put her kids into day care and got a full time job managing the airpark. Reporter how was she as a mother, by the way . Oh, she was okay, i guess. Was that harsh . Don, you should know, has firmly rooted religious beliefs. I tried to lead all of my children to the love of jesus christ. It was an article of dons brand of faith. A mother should be at home with her kids. I was really pretty frustrated that she had them over in day care and that she was working fulltime. Reporter mhmm. I didnt like it. But of course, it wasnt the only thing he didnt like about rachels job. There was also him. The first thought i had was, you know, wow, what a beautiful woman. And i still remember what she was wearing. I remember the way her hair was. His name is james white. Formermarine. Gun enthusiast. Airpark handyman. She was just the most perfectly nice, most beautiful woman ive ever met. I couldnt get her off my mind. Intoxicated by a married woman. Well, no good can come of that. Coming up. I wanted her to get out of that marriage as soon as possible because i wanted to be with rachel. The attraction was mutual and the fact they were both married was just one problem. Another was soon to arrive. How did she feel about carrying todds baby . When deadly twist continues. S. , uh, what do you d . Not this. Oh, what am i into . Mostly progressives name your price tool. Helps people find Coverage Options based on their budget. 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Dont start humira if you have an infection. Ask your doctor about humira citratefree. Heres to you. Plants capture co2. What if other kinds of plants captured it too . If these industrial plants had technology that captured carbon like trees we could help lower emissions. Carbon capture is Important Technology and experts agree. Thats why were working on ways to improve it. So plants. Can be a little more. Like plants. Reporter service in the military, as so Many Americans have come to know, can form a person. As it did james white. I was a marine for life. It never leaves you. Reporter once a marine, always a marine, they say. And james white loved everything about the corps. I miss the marine corps very much. Reporter though not so much his next job as a mississippi deputy sheriff. What was it you didnt like about it . I dont like seeing human suffering on a day to day basis. Reporter so, after a failed marriage and with his young daughter in tow, he moved back to the place he started out, northern california. That little girl, Katelynn White is all grown up now. Were more best friends than father and daughter. We fight like siblings, and were just we were more focused on having fun and not really caring about what other people think. Reporter james and katelynn set up house together here in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountains, coincidentally, just a few miles from rachel and todd winklers airpark. James started a handyman business and again, pure coincidence, got some jobs at the airpark. Reporter he also started a website called ammosmith. Com. Its not so much about guns as it is about the craft of creating custom ammunition. We have an automatic pistol that shoots a rimmed revolver cartridge. Reporter and that was his life in the spring of 2010, a nicely varied little business. A second marriage, that was not going terribly well, oh, and he had a secret mad crush on the beautiful young woman who managed the airpark. Rachell winkler. And then one day she called me into her office. This is in june, beginning of june of 2010. She said, have a seat. And i said, okay. I thought i was in trouble. And she leaned over from her chair and she grabbed my hand and says, james, i got something i really need to tell you. I thought i was, like, youre fired. [ laughter ] no, she said, ive fallen hopelessly in love with you, and i dont know what to do about it. Reporter what was it like to hear that . It was a huge relief. Reporter relief . Yeah. Reporter because you were in love with her. I was already in love with her at the time, but i couldnt tell her. I didnt feel that i should tell her. You know, i wouldnt know how she would react. Id rather have her as my friend than have her as nothing at all. Reporter so having left artist tim to marry exFighter Pilot todd, rachel now launched into an affair with exmarine james. This, by the way, wasnt one of those sneak off into a closet and steal a kiss kind of affairs. With todd living and working in the San Francisco bay area during the week james and rachel were together almost constantly. We tried to spend as much as time as possible we could together. Reporter whatd it feel like when you did . It felt like we were family, felt like we were one one heartbeat. You know, our hearts were intertwined together like i cant describe. Indescribable love, never loved someone so intensely in my life. Reporter their children were soon in on the secret. Katelynn was beguiled by rachel. You could be talking to her, like were talking, and she would make you feel like the most important human being on this earth. Reporter how did that make you feel . Special. Loved. I could open up to her. Reporter if todd suspected anything he didnt let on. But rachels dad, don, began to get a queasy feeling during his visits to the airpark. Tell me what you thought about him, at the time. He came across as this christian guy. And he you know, hes helping rachel. Reporter yeah. He was helping her around the airport. Okay, fine. After about the second time, i said, you know, is this guy trying to bed you or whats going on . And she says, hed like to. But its not happening. Reporter there were whispers around the neighborhood, too. People do notice things. Reporter suspected what . That something was going on . That maybe something was going on. Reporter cause you saw the two of them together a lot, she and james . I didnt see them as a couple, you know, outwardly as a couple. Even though youd see them together. Reporter but rachel and james had more than todd, don and the neighbors to worry about. You were married to somebody else. I was. Reporter what did you whatd you do about that . Whatd you think about that . How troublesome was that for you . I wanted to get out of that marriage as soon as possible, because i wanted to be with rachel. Reporter so you told your wife . No. My wife discovered us, and then we separated. Reporter you will perhaps not be surprised to hear that james wife, angry and betrayed, made a phone call to todd winkler. Who begged rachel, end it with james. She, in a rush of guilt and shame, agreed. She tried to call it off and i tried to call it off. We couldnt stay apart from each other more than two days before we went crazy for each other. Reporter how would you try to call it off . What would you do . She would say, i need to work it out with my husband, and id say, i need to work it out with my wife. We cant talk to each other. Two days later shed text me, said, i love you and i miss you. And i said, i love you and miss you, too. We had a real Strong Spiritual bond. Reporter and then, all lovesick, theyd sneak off to see each other or leave longing messages on the phone like this one from rachel. One of the great things when youre in love with somebody is that those feelings come to the surface more. Your feelings about work, about your heart, about your spirit, about everything. And we we can share those with each other, okay . And i love you. Take care. Bye. Reporter during their hearttohearts, rachel complained that her todd was not so perfect as people seemed to think. Did she lay it on a little thick for the sake of her other man . Wouldnt be surprising of course. Anyway, james relayed to us what he said she told him that todd was stingy, emotionally distant, that he was so devious, he actually faked having cancer, twice, to avoid deadlines at work. That on a business trip to amsterdam, he feigned some sort of catatonic state the day he had a presentation due. And worse, as james related rachels story, todd talked about staging a serious car wreck as a pretext for suing his own company and collecting a big settlement. Now, all this may just have been trash talk about the husband whose mere existence was an impediment to their happiness. But, wrapped up in their fog of love, they began talking about running away from it all together. And then, it was just about a year into their affair, ohoh she was pregnant, with todds baby. So, did rachel and james end it then . Why no. They did not. What did it do to your relationship . Brought us closer. She said to me, who in their right mind want to take on a woman with two toddlers and an infant . I said, i would, without hesitation. She started crying and so did i. Reporter well, how did she feel about carrying todds baby . She said that the life in her was a gift from god, and no matter who the father was, shes going to love that baby no matter what. Because half that baby was her. Reporter sure, of course. And i told her i would love that boy, and her and her daughters just like my own. Reporter but wait a minute. There was, after all, a husband. Todd was not about to take this lying down. And sure enough, he recruited a powerful ally. And one tense and anxious day, they braced themselves and set out to confront his wifes lover. And james white was ready for them. I had a nine millimeter on me, and i know how to use it extremely well. Reporter coming up, witness to a showdown between an angry husband and his wifes pistolpacking lover. I see these two men walking up the driveway and i was like, oh my god, what are they doing here . And what was about to happen . When deadly twist continues. Raise your steins to the king of speed. Run with us on a john deere 1 series tractor. Beacuse changing your attachments, should be as easy as. What about this . Changing your plans. Yeah. Run with us. Search john deere 1 series for more. 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Mohammed bin salman claims responsibility for the killing of Jamal Khashoggi while denying he ordered the murder. Now back to dateline. Welcome back to dateline extra. Im craig melvin. Todd winkler, distressed by his wifes infidelity, found an unlikely ally as he prepared to confront her lover james white. The plan was to show up unannounced. And he wasnt going to do it alone. Here again is Keith Morrison. Reporter todd winkler, distressed by his wifes infidelity, found an unlikely ally as he prepared to confront her lover james white. But in this case, rachels dad don hatfield was only too happy to help. He did not approve of his daughters behavior just too much like his own once was. And don was a guy whod been carrying his guilt like a cross for years. I tried to lead all of my children to the love of jesus christ. There was only one major obstacle to that ever occurring in a way that that i would be happy with. And that was my hypocrisy. What do you mean . Huh . Your hypocrisy . My hypocrisy chasing women uhhuh. Blowing my marriage. Reporter as don tells it, women found his role as an ascendant artist quite appealing. Never mind he was a married father of four. And that kind of thing destroyed this literally, destroyed my family. Reporter by the time rachel was in middle school, dons string of affairs led to a homeshattering divorce. I think that the the obliteration of the Nuclear Family had a profound effect on rachel. Reporter now, he feared, the apple hadnt fallen far from the tree. His daughter rachel was in the middle of an affair herself and it was putting her marriage at risk. You know todd had been calling me, you know, what am i gonna do . You know, how am i gonna save my marriage . And i said, todd, have you just told him straight up to stay away from your wife until this thing is worked out . He said no. And i said, well, have you thought about that . He says, well, not til right now. Sounds like a good idea. Will you come with me . Yeah, ill go with ya. And so we drove over there. Reporter james daughter katelynn, 16 then, sounded the alarm as rachels worried father and betrayed husband pulled up at the entrance to jamess isolated mountain property. We just got done shooting. And i just hear this car roll up. I was like, wow, that sounds like rachel. And i see these two men walking up the driveway. And i was like, oh my god. What are they doing here . And i ran out. Im like, dad, todds here. And so is don. He goes, all right. Lets get this over with. And i grabbed the nine or i didnt grab the nine, i grabbed the m4. Reporter katelynn is talking about the guns she had at the ready, a nine millimeter pistol and an m4 rifle. And james . He had a pistol holstered in the small of his back as he walked out to greet todd and don. I had a nine millimeter on me, and i know how to use it extremely well. Reporter here is james memory of a confrontation so tense it sounds almost surreal. As the two men approached the house, he said, they hid behind todd and rachels children. He had ariel in his arms, using her as a human shield. And don had alex in his arms, hiding on the other side of the car. Reporter they were afraid that you were gonna shoot them. Perhaps. And i cant remember whether or not todd actually went to the door with the kid or i went to the door or whatever. But he was a human shield. He was gonna stop the bullets, reporter thats a little scary. Yeah, it is scary. Todd was holding ariel, and don was holding alex. And todd came up, he looks just a wreck. Todd confronted me, he said, rachel and i arent divorced yet, and i would appreciate it if you would stay away from her. Reporter and . No. Reporter you said, no . I said, no. Reporter there was a pause. If something was going to happen, this would be the moment. And then he turns to me and he goes, hi katelynn. I was like, get off this property. Reporter and suddenly, it was over. Todd and don and the kids got back into the land cruiser and drove off. What was the feeling like as this was going on . The feeling for me was, god, i hope that this clears the air. I think you know, he hes asked him to stay away so maybe hell stay away and maybe they can figure out what to do. Reporter was it a civilized conversation . Yes. Yes, very. Reporter they didnt yell at each other . No. Reporter didnt stare daggers calm. Reporter at each nothing, zippo. I didnt like the fact that heres a marriage in trouble. And theres guys will prey on that, you know . If hes a gentleman, he says, ill wait in the wings. And if this flies, fine. But you know, he didnt. Reporter no. Apparently, nothing could keep the lovers apart. James emailed rachel. Hey, my love. I miss you something awfully bad. Ive be crying on and off since sunday. Im dying inside. My heart is shattered. I love you endlessly my sweet love. No. This wasnt over. Not the affair. Not the marriage, either. And not the confrontation. Something was coming. Watch out. 911, whats your emergency . Im calling to report a fatality. Where did this occur . Its in the cameron park air park. Coming up. Ives in my yard and saw the Sheriffs Department pulling into the neighbor next door, taking kind of tactical positions, donning flack jackets and ar15s. Who had been killed . I get a phone call from a screaming, irrational voice on the other end. And who was the killer . When deadly twist continues. Paneras new warm grain bowls are full of good. Full of flavor. Color. Full of. Woo full of good. So you can be too. Try our new warm grain bowls today. Order now on ubereats. Dwight Branford ill leave you with this. Do your best, because your best is needed. And your best is needed every single day. Amber Jaggers students that come from underserved backgrounds, they dont think there is any other way of life. They think thats it for them. If we dont give them the tools that they need, theyre not going to be competitive in the workforce thats waiting for them. In the past, shawnee had no technology. With verizon innovative learning, it was like someone had been listening to my thoughts on what education should be. It gives students hardware and connectivity, and provides curriculum to train teachers. Now, we are a school that has high growth and high achievement. I see new opportunities for our students, and i see them truly hopeful for what they may achieve. Welcome back. With his fatherinlaw at his side and his children in tow, todd winkler confronted his wifes lover. But todd didnt get the outcome he wanted. It appeared his marriage was teetering and things were about to go from bad to deadly. Here again is Keith Morrison. Reporter oh so peaceful in the airpark that last sunday of february 2012. Todd and Rachel Winklers marital issues did not noticeably ruffle the surface of normal suburban life. A neighbor bumped into todd that afternoon. He stopped and talked to us for, you know, a couple a minutes and, you know, wished us well and kept going. He was pushing the two strollers with all three kids and he didnt look particularly cheerful. Reporter todd had no way of knowing that sunday afternoon that rachel was back at James Mountain house, doublechecking her divorce application. She finished the paperwork and she says, and im going to file it the next morning. Reporter youre continuing the relationship. She is filling out divorce papers. Hes trying to block her. Shes determined to do it. Uhhuh. She turned to me that day, she say, you know what, james . Whether youre in the picture or not, im divorcing todd. I want out. Reporter whether youre in the picture or not . But was there some doubt about that . No. She said the reason why she wants to be with me is because she wanted to be with me, not because she had to be with me. Reporter im trying to imagine what you were feeling like. I was elated. We were finally going to be able to start the life together weve talked about and dreamed about and wanted together for so long. Reporter rachel headed home to tell todd they were history, that she was leaving him for the man she loved. Evening fell. It was sunday night. No one who drove past the winklers home in the gathering dark would have noticed anything untoward. But come monday morning it was a day unlike any the Airpark Community had ever seen. 911, whats your emergency . Im calling to report a fatality. Where did this occur . Its in the cameron park air park. My understanding, it was a domestic it was just so surreal. It almost it seemed like a dream. Reporter what was going on . The neighbors watching anxiously from their windows didnt know, of course. I was in my yard and saw the Sheriffs Department pulling into the neighbor next door, between our house and the winklers house, and taking kind of tactical positions, donning flak jackets and pulling out ar15s. There were five sheriffs in the backyard with their guns drawn facing todds house. Reporter what happened next floored marion cockerell. And i saw todd walking backwards across the street. Stop right there. Turn around. Put your hands on top of your head. Drop down to your knees. Keep your hand on top of your head. You understand me . Yes, i do. Who else is inside the house . Theres no one else inside the house, sir. And wheres your wife . My wife is inside the house. You said nobody else was inside, though. My wife is dead. Reporter how could it be . Rachel winkler was just 37 years old, with those three little children to whom she meant the whole world. Where is your wife . Shes in when you enter the house, you turn to the right. The first bedroom on your right. You sure shes dead . Im positive. How can you be how are you sure . No pulse, no breathing. Reporter amid the chaos, frantic calls, one of the neighbors reached rachels father. And i get a phone call from a screaming, irrational voice on the other end. I said, is it rachel . Yes, its rachel. I said, i have a question for you. Is there a Yellow Ribbon around the property . Yes. Is there a big white van in front of the house . Yes. Reporter don was in the middle of moving. The movers tried to calm him down. And the guys says, we dont know that shes dead. I said, count on it, he killed her. And i got there and, you know, she was gone. Reporter he was right to begin with. Rachel was dead. The horrific news spread. I got a call from a friend and i said, it cant be. And the next thing i knew, i woke up on the floor. Reporter you fainted . I completely blacked out, hit the floor. So i called the Sheriffs Department and asked them if they knew what was going on. And they said just stay right where youre at. Reporter james daughter katelynn got a message at school. I walk outside, and i call a family friend, and he goes, are you sitting down . I think you need to sit down, katelynn. I was like, whats going on . And all i remember is just dropping to the ground. Reporter rachels friend shannon couldnt believe what she read online. I found out through facebook. I was scrolling and saw someone post something, r. I. P. Rachel. Reporter all right. And i was like, what the hell is going on . So then i called her younger brother, and he said somebody came into her house and murdered her. And i said, what do you mean somebody came into her house and murdered her . Coming up what had happened in that house . An eyewitness account from todd. Oh, my god, get the children out of here. And what does this box have to do and what does this box have to go with fire and death on a dark mown tail when deadly twist continued. If theyre talking about you. 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Once again, heres Keith Morrison. Stop right there. Turn around. Put your hands on top of your head. Drop down to your knees. Reporter the scene that played out in front of the todd and Rachel Winklers home in the airpark that monday morning, february 27, 2012, grew more bizarre by the moment. As neighbor Marion Cockrell watched the Police Surround todd, he saw something quite incomprehensible. They handcuffed him and took him off and we didnt know what was going on. Reporter todd, under arrest . Charged with murder for killing rachel. What about her lover, the man with all the guns . No, it was todd in handcuffs. The investigators disappeared into the house and found a bloody crime scene. And Rachel Winkler, dead in her babys bedroom. They found the couples three Young Children safe and sound across the street at a neighbors house. Todd had dropped them off there before the police arrived. Soon, todd himself was sitting in an Interview Room at the Sheriffs Department. Where he admitted, yes, he killed rachel. But, he said, he had no choice. And then he told the police a harrowing story of rage and violence and selfdefense. The trouble began the night before, sunday night, he said, as he was preparing to leave early the next morning for work. Rachel told him straight out, she was leaving him for james. And shed go back to the arms of james white. Reporter and then, a few hours later, 3 30 monday morning when todd went into the babys room where rachel had taken to sleeping, they argued, bitterly about custody of the children. I said, im not going to agree to you having the kids up here and having primary custody on that. Going to fight you on this. And, she said, no, you know, im looking to have my boyfriend get rid of you. Her boyfriend is a big gun collector. Reporter as todd told it, when rachel said that when she threatened to send james white to get rid of him, whatever that meant, he overreacted and punched rachel. Where did you hit her . I hit her right by the face. After she had told you basically she was going to have this, her boyfriend take care of you. Yeah, yeah. Reporter todd said he tried to apologize. And im rubbing back saying, im sorry, you know, im just so sorry, theres not im sorry. Reporter but then, he said, rachel turned around and attacked him with a deadly weapon. Reporter she was coming at me with a vee of scissors. Uhhuh. And i got a hold of them. And we had a struggle on the bed and rolled off onto the bed. Uhhuh. And got into this struggle over the scissors. I took some cuts just on my hands trying to get them away from her. Reporter they wrestled on the bedroom floor, he said. Just a couple of feet from the crib where 7month old alex was sleeping. And, overweight and outofshape, said todd, he was fighting for his life with his much fitter wife. It was a long, long, long protracted struggle. Uhhuh. I dont know how long, but it was a long time. Shes a very strong girl. Uhhuh. Shes an extremely strong girl. And she had me on the bottom. And she was on top of me. Like, back and forth between bottom and top in this struggle over the scissors reporter then, he said, he finally overpowered her, got control of those scissors. I was able to get them turned around onto her. Uhhuh. And give her some jabs. She was injured at this point, but probably not seriously. Uhhuh. I poked her in the eye really hard and got her to break free. Reporter he retreated, he said, as quick as he could. And i got up and got out of there and then ran to my car. Got to my car and thought, get out of here. I thought, oh, my god. I didnt realize. Get the children, get the children out here. Reporter his two daughters were in their room, but baby alex was with the wounded rachel. Standing there in the garage, he said, he made a decision. He had to protect his children. He would go back in and rescue them from rachel. I grabbed my motorcycle jacket at that point. Put it on, zipped it up. Its got pads over here for, like, breaking down the door. Uhhuh. And i rushed into the room. Reporter she must have been waiting, said todd, to pounce. He was, he told police, soon in a fight to the death to save his own life. I tripped and fell forward when i rushed into the room. She kicked me in the face and then we got into uhhuh another subsequent struggle on the floor. And once i, you know, started to get the upper hand, i just, i pushed the scissors in as far as i could. And where was that, do you recall . In her throat. In her throat. I dont know how long. Quite a very long time. Okay, and why did you hold her there like that with the scissors in . I knew if id let go, i mean, she still had her hand on these scissors. I was also fearing for, you know, she was, it was probably kill or be killed kind of situation. Coming up, what really happened in that bedroom . The investigation reveals someone was keeping secrets. Were realizing, wait, there was a former wife . 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Like new srirachahoney shrimp, savory grilled teriyaki shrimp, classic shrimp scampi and more red lobsters endless shrimp is 15. 99. Hurry in. Hard work leaves a mark. It shows on your clothes. Grit, dirt, and every stain the job throws at you. New tide heavy duty. Designed for impossible stains. I am royalty of racing, i am the twisting thundercloud. Raise your steins to the king of speed. Welcome back to dateline extra. Todd winkler had just described a life and death struggle with his wife to police. He said he was protecting himself and his family to a domestic dispute gone awry. What would the scene tell them . There they would find a little box that turned one mystery into two. Here again is Keith Morrison. Reporter when todd winkler was arrested for killing rachel, he said it was selfdefense. He had to protect his children and save himself, even if it meant a dual to the death. It was a kill or be killed situation. Reporter eventually todd got to his feet. He prepared a bottle for crying alex, he said, and he worried. And i just started just pacing around the house just saying, god, i just killed their mother. Reporter byandby, ariel and eva woke up. Todd kept them out of the room where their mom lay dead. Then, he said, he cleaned up the house as well as he could. And at 10 26 am, 7 hours after rachel died, he phoned a lawyer friend and asked him to inform the authorities. Tell me exactly what you heard from your neighbor. What im willing to tell you is that im an attorney. I received a call notifying me of the situation. Reporter about the same time, 10 30 am, todd took his children to the neighbors house. I said, theres been i didnt tell them rachel was dead. I said, we have a very serious situation across the street. Can you please watch the kids. Reporter murder investigations are of course based on more than just witness statements. The csi team rushed over to todd and rachels house and assistant d. A. , Lisette Suder, joined them as they searched and documented the interior of a house that was strangly chaotic. Reporter what did it look like . The house is wellmanicured. Minus the fact that theres this yellow crime scene tape up. And then you walk through that and you walk into the doors and the house is in complete disarray. Kitchen is completely undone. Baseboards missing all over the place. The house is not put together at all. Reporter such an odd place. In the garage that doubled as a hangar, investigators found todds mustang, rachels suv, a boat, a bmw motorcycle and parts of a plane todd was refurbishing. Back inside the house, in the master bedroom, in a night stand, they found something else, too. Something quite unexpected. This blue box. Inside . Ashes. What . At the bottom of the box was a label that simply said, cremated remains of Catherine Lynn winkler. And now, suddenly, there were two mysteries to solve. What really happened in the winkler babys bloodstained bedroom . The prosecutor listened carefully to todds set of events and was sculkeptical. Thats her job, of course. Of course, no one saw what happened. But then the investigators found that box with ashes in it. Were realizing, wait, there was a former wife . Todd winkler had been married before and clearly his exwife was dead. So what happened to her . The prosecutor would have to find out. And thats when she set out to follow a trail that led to a man in georgia and jar rold johnson, a judge now. But back in 1999 a rookie detective. It really shocked me i was getting a case in california. Had you forgotten all about that case . No, sir. I actually over the years, i have thought about that case many times. The case, an auto accident in the fall of 99, an accident that killed the first mrs. Winkler, kathy. My father called me that night and told me that kathy was no longer with us. Reporter what was that like for you . It hurts. It still hurts. Reporter so many years later, charles still smarts from the loss of his big sister kathy. Just never got over it. But then kathy was his mentor, his protector, perhaps his only true friend. They grew up on an air force base. Kathy was outgoing, strikingly attractive and popular. They were school chums. They remember what a knockout she was, but there was more to her than that. She could have her choice of young men. She was beautiful inside and out. It wasnt just her exterior beauty. She had a sweet, kind, caring personality that it was attractive to everybody. Reporter it was a small miracle, perhaps, that she turned out so well given what was demanded of her, said her friends. Her mother left when they were young. Her grandmother lived with her for a while but she was the caretaker of her siblings. Kathy pretty much mothered them and cared for them. She definitely was the mom. Reporter except on weekends when the school chums remember sneaking around the base to get a glimpse of the true stars among the young men there. No surprise it was the macho Fighter Pilots. The man in the uniform. Yes, definitely, the jumper suit. Very hot. Kathy and i would always joke and say, do you think you are going to marry a pilot . And of course she ended up marrying one. Reporter it wasnt a direct route. First kathy struck up a serious relationship with a pilot who in the end just couldnt seem to commit. And, so, just like rachel, years later in napa, california, kathy was a young woman on the rebound when she met Fighter Pilot todd. Where the first one didnt work out or maybe it didnt work to the way she wanted it to, maybe she felt like this is what she needed to do and todd came into the picture. Having that pilot probably maybe is what caused her to marry todd. Patterns. That time, too, todd was ready to commit. Right away. Reporter young did they date before they got married . I wouldnt say it was a very long time at all. Reporter okay. She appeared to be happy. She had married her pilot, so i thought her fairy tale was coming true. Reporter the air force sent todd to japan soon after the wedding. It was an exhilarating time for kathy. Kathy was excited to move to japan, and she was going to be an english teacher. Reporter later after todd left the air force, kateys friends how she was there for him. She was very nurturing in the fact that she was supporting him in whatever different career he was going to choose. Reporter it was a difficult time for todd. We did spend thanksgiving with them one year and todd had put on a lot of weight. I know that he wasnt working and he was depressed. Reporter but todd always had a knack for making money. He got into the booming wifi business. Pretty soon they moved into a big lake side house in georgia with a boat and fancy cars and of course an airplane. Kathy, always so nurturing, told her friends she was ready to take the next step. I remember kathy calling me and telling me that they were living in georgia and that she was excited about it and that she wanted to have children. I was excited for her because i could see her with little kids. Reporter but nine years into what looked like a happy marriage children had yet to arrive. And now we know, because of what was in that blue box they never would. Time to find out what happened. Who knew the discovery in that box would bring investigators all the way across the county to the blue Ridge Mountains of north georgia, to a campsite, high on a hill. Here was a lonely place. That had kept its secret long enough. Coming up i was sleeping in my tent and i heard somebody shouting from the road 100 miles away. Help help help we final by come around the turn and the whole side of the mountain was on fire. Did it look like it was possible anybody was arrive there. I remember falling to the ground, and i said, what do you mean shes dead . A mysterious death and suspicion. It just didnt add up. When deadly twist continues. S i am royalty of racing, raise your steins to the king of speed. Paneras new warm grain full of flavor, color,. Full of woo full of good. So you can be too. Try our new warm grain bowls today. Panera. Food as it should be. Before she puts them in the dishwasher. So what does the dishwasher do . vo cascade platinum does the work for you. Prewashing and removing stuckon foods, the first time. mom wow thats clean vo cascade platinum. I am royalty of racing, i am the twisting thundercloud. Raise your steins to the king of speed. Reporter white county, georgia. Its beautiful, just nature at its best. Reporter this is where the blue Ridge Mountains begin. And its sweet here. Its quite lovely. Beautiful. Reporter a person can find what really matters up here, said mike hodnett and woody depew. Up here so far from the raucous urban world are weekends steeped in the peace and beauty of a natural cathedral. Wed ride our mountain bikes, go sit in the river, hike, go rappelling. Most of the time youre just youre out there by yourself. And you make your own rules. Reporter and at night . You can go up to the top of the mountain and you can see a lot of stars you didnt know were there. Reporter but down the sides of the mountain, under a thick canopy of leaves many, many nights its just pitch black. Reporter this is the place, these are the conditions that california prosecutor Lisette Suder needed to understand. It was september, 26th 1999, one of those pitch black nights, the night mike and woody lived through one of the strangest experiences of their lives. Mike and woody were asleep in separate tents around a common campfire. And both, same moment, were suddenly startled awake. I was sleeping in my tent and i heard somebody shouting from the road about 100 yards away, help, help, help, my wife is dead. This is the middle of the night. Its the middle of the night. And then i kind of was like just laid there and i was like, nah, nah, i didnt just hear that. And then i heard it again. Reporter they got up fast and out of the black night. Some strange man come walking into their campsite going, oh, help. Help me. My wife is dead. Reporter the stranger was emotional, distraught, told them he and his wife had been camping a few miles farther up the narrow Mountain Road. He said that he had been stung by a bee and that his wife was rushing him to the hospital. And he was laying in the back of the truck. He then told us that his wife lost control of the vehicle. Reporter and then the pick up went over the edge and tumbled down the ridge, he told them. And then, he was thrown out of the back bed of the truck. It just threw him out. And then he was able to walk away. Reporter he said it crashed at the bottom and burst into flames with his wife still inside. The man looked disheveled but okay. He wanted to call 911 but didnt have a cell phone with him. And he wanted to try to find his wife he told them. Woody and mike told the stranger he could ride in the bed of their truck, while they drove up the twisting track, looking for the accident site. I i kept asking, like, wheres the wreck . Wheres the wreck . And then after that went on, you know, 20 or 30, 40 seconds, you know, going around different turns and stuff, we finally come around this turn and the whole side of the mountains on fire. Obviously, we knew we were there. Reporter it looked like several acres of forest were on fire. Did it look like it was possible anybody could be alive down there . No. No. Reporter just the same, woody and mike climbed down the steep incline as far as they could. I dont see how anybody couldve survived that wreck. The cliff, the fire, but im still hopeful, okay . I got to do something. Yeah. Reporter but there was no getting near the truck and no sign of a survivor. And then the firefighters came and the emts and, of course, the cops. They too heard the husbands bizarre tale. And they also learned his name was todd winkler. In their report they wrote that when they encountered todd, he was calling out for his wife cathy over and over. Cathy, cathy, as if he was hoping shed come walking out of that burning forest. The patrol deputies called in the investigators, which is how gerald johnson, a brand new detective at the time, found himself deep in the georgia woods early that autumn morning. What happened up there on the hill was well, you you can describe to me as best you understood at the time what had happened. Sometime during the night, he had gotten up, according to his statement, to go outside to use the restroom. And as he came back to the tent, he realized that he had been bitten by something or was having some type of reaction, that his throat was closing up and a sort of anaphylactic shock type reaction . Well, that thats what i described it as. And she takes him out to this toyota pickup, if i remember correctly. Hes crawling on his hands and knees at this point and having all these symptoms of some type of allergic reaction. Reporter johnson mostly just observed, he said, as the Georgia Bureau of investigation looked into what happened. But took no action. And eventually, the coroner ruled cathys death an accident. And then, the Life Insurance company did the same. And as the more than half Million Dollar policy on cathys life was a double indemnity, it paid double in the case of an accident. Todd got close to 1. 2 million. And the case was closed. But for the heartbreak, it was julielynn who told tanya what happened. And she said, tanya, cathys dead. Shes not alive anymore. She died. I remember falling to the ground and i said, what do you mean shes dead . Reporter cathys friend julielynn felt not just for herself but for todd, too. And i wanted to console him and just let him know that we were there for him, supporting him, anything we could do for him. And he never returned any of my calls. Reporter tanya tanya tried to call him, too. For a different reason. It just didnt add up. My phone call was strictly to figure out and to pick his brain and ask questions. Reporter because, by then, tanya was a cop herself, who knew a Little Something about suspicious behavior. Did i think he was going to answer that phone . No, and let me tell you, i tried that phone number numerous times. And after about a month of calling it repeatedly, the phone number was disconnected. Reporter she didnt get anywhere. No. But sometimes, maybe, with a little help from curious prosecutor, you get a doover. So, as the years went by, you thought about it . Oh, yes, sir. It bothered you . Yes. So, that must have made that call that you got from california all the more remarkable. When when i realized what they were asking me about, yes, sir. I thought, oh, my goodness, what in the world is going on with this case . So many questions of the long ago case. Starting with why was cathy even camping . Cathy was not a camper. The more we read, the more we realized, this was not an accident. He was sort of play sobbing. There was some horrible acting going on. It wasnt believable. I recall him at one point mr. Winkler saying, do you think i killed my wife. When deadly twist continues. I am royalty of racing, raise your steins to the king of speed. This is jamie. Youre going to be seeing a lot more of him now. Im not calling him dad. Oh, nno. Look, [sighs] i get it. Some new guy comes in helping your mom bundle and save with progressive, but hey, were all in this together. Right, champ . Im getting more nuggets. How about some carrots . You dont want to ruin your dinner. 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Dont start humira if you have an infection. Man 3 vo ask your rheumatologist about humira. Woman 4 vo go to humira. Com to see proof in action. I am royalty of racing, i am the twisting thundercloud. Raise your steins to the king of speed. Juul record. They took 12. 8 billion from big tobacco. Juul marketed mango, mint, and menthol flavors, addicting kids to nicotine. Five million kids now using ecigarettes. The fda said juul ignored the law with Misleading Health claims. Now juul is pushing prop c, to overturn San Franciscos ecigarette protections. Say no to juul, no to big tobacco, no to prop c. Welcome back. Investigators wondered what were the odds . Todd winkler had been married two times and both of his wives suffered violent deaths. Todd admitted to killing his recent wife rachel with a pair of scissoring saying it was selfdefense. Now california authorities wanted to know the circumstances around his first wifes death and whether history might be repeating itself. With more of our story, here is Keith Morrison. Reporter once, when outsiders came to these north georgia mountains and valleys it was to make a movie called deliverance. This time, the visitors were california detectives. Here to find out exactly what happened on this Mountain Path on a dark night more than a decade ago. We got all those police reports. Reporter out in california, 15 years later, prosecutor Lisette Suder was convinced. For the sake of her own case, she had to find out what really happened up here on this isolated Mountain Road in september, 1999. What is very important about the georgia case and our case is it goes to his intent in the rachel case. Reporter and before long she knew. This was going to be explosive. The georgia case could be her best evidence in the here and now in california to show that todd winkler was perfectly capable of spousal murder. Because she soon believed he had done it before. The more we read, the more we realized that this was not an accident. Reporter todds behavior up here on the mountain, said prosecutor suder, was deeply suspect. For one thing, his stories just kept changing with each telling, like the one about where he was sitting in the truck as it headed down the mountain trail, in the passenger seat, holding cathys hand, as he told the police, or back in the bed of the truck, as the campers insisted he told them. And when the truck went off the road . Did he describe being thrown out of the vehicle . Not to us, but there was another interview. That was done earlier, where i think he described to someone as a twisting and turning motion. But in our interview, what i recall him sayin is that when he came to himself, he was layin on the ground, outside the vehicle. There was a huge fire. And he didnt know where his wife was. So from reporter so that he didnt remember the accident at all, in your interview . Right, right. Reporter but apparently he did in some other interview. And thats correct. Reporter there were differing stories about what sort of bug supposedly bit him. Supposedly causing an allergic reaction so bad he had to ask cathy to rush him down the mountain to a hospital. Yet, when the cops asked to see the bug bite . He didnt know where the bug bite was. Didnt know what bit him. Reporter didnt know where it was . No, sir. Reporter something serious enough to give him an allergic reaction that doesnt present anywhere is a bit odd. That was a big question in my mind. Reporter todd told the cops back then that he had a history of allergic reactions. Always carried an epipen for emergencies. Yet didnt take that to the wilderness that weekend. Did that seem strange to you that hed go camping without an epipen if he was subject to this sort of thing . It seemed strange to me that we were spendin so much time talkin about bug bites. It was almost as if we were tryin to steer away from the real issue, which was a fatality crash involving his wife. Reporter it also seem strange he said that by the time the campers saw todd, he displayed no evidence of an allergic reaction. Of course, Lisette Suder and her people interviewed mike and woody too. And they told her, as they told us, that they never forgot how strangely phony todd seemed when he arrived at their campsite that night. He was kind of kinda playsobbing, i would say, you know . It was it was some horrible acting going on. It wasnt believable. Reporter they also wondered why, on a warm southern night, was todd dressed in several layers of heavy clothing . Was he protecting himself from a fall he knew he was going to cause . He had a lot of extra clothing on. But i also remember he also had a toboggan hat on. Reporter the kind you pull down over your ears. The kind yes. And im standin there in a tshirt, shorts, and flip flops. Reporter also, why did the accident happen on the one spot in the whole drive that offered a long straight drop hundreds of feet into a deep ravine . The steepest cliff possible on that road. Reporter why did their toyota pick up erupt into flames . That might happen in the movies, but rarely in real life. Why did it look like the fire had been burning for a long time . It was the whole side of the mountain. It was a big mountain. It had to have been burnin an hour or two. Yeah, probably. I would think. Closer to two. Reporter curiosities. Why would he bring up here to the very top of the mountain to go camping its an hours drive over a rutted track to the other campers farther down the hill. Acording to cathys family she didnt like camping at all. So why would he bring her to the most remote possible place . No one camps up there. Unless you want to be really secluded. Reporter and that said cathys brother was not something she would have wanted. Did she like to go camping . No. Shed rather be in a hotel any day over a tent, knowin my sister. Reporter puzzled cathys friends too. I was like, camping . Cathy was not a camper. Reporter and there was this i recall him at some point, mr. Winkler saying, do you think i killed my wife . Reporter is that a question an innocent man would ask, johnson wondered . And when the investigaor responded. Johnson remembered thinking todds behavior seemed off, inappropriate. If i remember correctly, special agent roberts says, did you . And then at that point he became very emotional, you know . Oh, i cant believe and his body language and his demeanor was just so over the top. Reporter but though they may have had their suspicions back in 1999, suspicion alone didnt make the death of Cathy Winkler anything but what it was called at the time, an accident. Insurance companies investigated and paid out, because they felt that it was a real accident, and the authorities there couldnt show that it wasnt a real accident. So why was it worth you looking at it again . Well, we knew a lot more about todd winkler at this point. We knew a lot more about how he goes about getting what he wants. Reporter the more she learned about cathy winkers death the more it seemed to her that todd must have planned it all. Just as the evidence here in california was telling her that the killing of Rachel Winkler more than a decade later was a case of history, todd winklers history, repeating itself. But if she had some crusading idea of finding justice in that old case, and using it to solidify her own here in california, shed have persuade a judge, first. Coming up disorder in the court. This is a case about a mastermind, a manipulator, a murderer. When deadly twist continues. Like new srirachahoney shrimp, savory grilled teriyaki shrimp, classic shrimp scampi and more red lobsters endless shrimp is 15. 99. Hurry in. 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Top white house aids are on damage control following the growing threat of impeachment. Among those expected to be in attendance are Mick Mulvaney and white house council. Now back to dateline. Welcome back. To help prove that todd winkler murdered his second wife rachel in california, the prosecutor decided to look into the death of todds first wife in georgia. The more she dug, the more convinced she became that the previous wifes car crash was staged. The prosecutor now believed rachels case was about more than one murder. But before she could make that argument to a jury, she would first have to convince the judge. Here again is Keith Morrison. Reporter once, a long time ago, this part of california was the epicenter of the gold rush. Back then, as legend has it, at least, there was no wait for justice. You committed a crime, the punishment was meted out then and there. But not now. For more than two years after the bloody confrontation in the winklers nursery, todd waited in jail to be tried for her murder. And i just started just pacing around the house just saying, god, i just killed their mother. Reporter for those two years, todd maintained, as he had from the very beginning, that he killed rachel only to save his own life, to save himself and his children. From jail, he and his family fought a losing battle with rachels father, don hatfield, who won custody of those children. And here began atoning for the sins of his youth by devoting his life to three little kids, eva, ariel and alex. It was after all that that they held the trial. Prosecutor Lisette Suder intended to portray todd as a manipulative and devious man who murdered not one wife but two. That is if she could persuade a california judge to allow an old georgia case to be dusted off and brought back to life. I felt confident that i had the law behind me on that. And i submitted my brief, and i submitted the legal arguments that supported that. Reporter and . She won. And so, in september of 2014, when todd winker went on trial charged with firstdegree murder of second wife rachel, Lisette Suder could use the georgia story about first wife cathys death 15 years earlier against him. And the defense . Dismissed the georgia case out of hand. Irrelevant, said todds attorney. Cathy winklers death was thoroughly investigated, he said. And it was not ruled a murder, because it was not a murder. Theres no evidence of anything other than an accident. Reporter todds attorney was able to explain away the things that had raised suspicion. Cathys family was wrong, said the defense. She loved camping. A ranger who saw them making their dinner way up in this remote spot, so far from any other living soul, said they seemed happy. And the insurance money, remember that . That wasnt motive, just business as usual for a pair of uppermiddle class professionals. In addition to the insurance policy of about 1. 1 million that cathy had at the time of her death on her own life, he had 1. 2 million on his own life. Reporter no, cathy and todd were a young upwardly mobile couple. Life insurance was cheap, easy to get. They both had it. Anyway, todd loved cathy. Why else would he keep her ashes all these years. Cathys death, said the defense, had nothing whatever to do with the event for which todd was on trial, the death of Rachel Winkler, and he wasnt guilty in this case either. This is not a murder case, ladies and gentlemen. Its a selfdefense case, or at most its a voluntary manslaughter case. Reporter there were two good reasons to believe that, said the defense. Reason one, self defense. As todd told the police that very first day it was probably a kill or be killed kind of situation. Reporter he was a good guy in a bad situation, said his attorney. He worked hard and long hours to support rachel. He wanted to make her happy, and he was a good dad. And for that she cheated on him, threatened him and then attacked with those scissors. Of course, by that point, todd told the police, she was a very unstable woman. Started drinking, started binge drinking. I was afraid for the children. She was just spinning into this mental cycle of selfdestruction. Reporter and then todds defense revealed this little gem. Shes signed up for california sweetheart, which is an adult connection kind of you can judge for yourselves what it is. Reporter married to a man shed grown to hate, in an affair with a man she was maybe thinking of cheating on, said the defense. She was conflicted, said todds attorney. She was telling people she was afraid of todd. And yet she sure didnt act like it here, todd and rachel look happy. Compare it with this photograph taken in las vegas about just a few days before rachel died. Reporter but there was something else, said todds attorney, and it was reason number two, that rachels death was not murder. And that was that his client had a psychotic breakdown when rachel attacked him. His ability to understand what he was doing was diminished. Why should the jury believe that . Well, as youll remember, rachel herself described todd as unstable at times. And now the defense presented evidence of what they said was his history of psychotic episodes. The first one happened in asia, Something Like 20 years earlier when todd was married to cathy and was flying with the fighting samurai squadron. He was caught shoplifting from a base px. He claimed amnesia. So the air force sent him off for psychiatric tests. But then it got even more bizarre, and cathy called her friend tanya. She telephoned me saying, im in hawaii. Todd had a mental breakdown, and so hes in a psychiatric facility. She had said to me that he escaped and was in the wooded area in hawaii. And for a week or two. And when he finally came out of the woods he said that he was a samurai warrior. Reporter back then, after months of psychiatric evaluation, todd was diagnosed with dissociative disorder, a neurosis that warped his view of reality. Not exactly what the air force wanted in a Fighter Pilot. And because of events and the determinations by the air force psychiatrists, he was retired medically with a 50 disability. Reporter and there was that incident in amsterdam. Remember . Rachel told james about it. It happened just before he was due to make an important presentation at a conference. That time he appeared to black out, became catatonic, ended up in the hospital where they found nothing wrong with him and released him. Rachel told james he faked the episode. But here at trial, a defense psychiatrist testified todd suffered from real mental issues, dissociative disorder, conversion disorder, which meant he could be violent if he felt he was under attack. And that awful morning . First he told the police she threatened to sic her wellarmed boyfriend on him. And she said, no, you know, im looking to have my boyfriend get rid of you. Reporter and then she was coming at me with a vee of scissors. Reporter rachels dad, don, and selfdescribed soulmate, soulmate, james, watched as the defense argued that todd had no choice but to kill the woman they so loved. His state of mind is what you really need to pay careful attention to here. He knows shell kill him. He knows if he doesnt end it, it could end him. Reporter all very sad, said the defense, but not murder. And what would prosecutor suder say about that . Reporter simple, all that psychiatric stuff, she said, was fakery. Todd winkler may have had, or feigned, some disorder that got him out of the air force, she said, but he killed rachel. And it was murder, deliberate and planned, she said, committed by a man practiced at getting away with things. This is a case about a mastermind, a manipulator, a murderer. This is a case about todd winkler and how he brutally murdered rachel marie winkler, his wife, mother of his three small children. Reporter todd winkler did not have to fend off a scissorwielding wife, said prosecutor suder, so it wasnt selfdefense. And rachels death could not be blamed on any mental condition either, any more than the death of another mrs. Winkler in those dark woods so long ago. But as she began to tell that part of the story watch what happened. Shes found burned to death down a steep embankment where the car went. The car and she burned. And the defendant is very fine with just a few minor scratches on him. You are not samurai. Stop, stop, stop. Stop, stop, stop. Judge you do not speak truth. You only want to destroy. You have no bushido. You have no bushido. Reporter bailliffs and his lawyer struggled to restrain todd. It looked like the whole trial would be over. Coming up whatever happened, somebody had already made up her mind. I was told that monsters dont exist. My parents always told me that. I can tell you with absolute certainty that is 110 false. Hes a monster. When deadly twist continues. Raise your steins to the king of speed. Plants capture co2. What if other kinds of plants captured it too . If these industrial plants had technology that captured carbon like trees we could help lower emissions. Carbon capture is Important Technology and experts agree. Thats why were working on ways to improve it. So plants. Can be a little more. Like plants. Upbeat music no coverup spray here. Cheaper aerosols can cover up odors in a flowery fog. But febreze air effects eliminates odors. With a 100 natural propellent. It leaves behind a pleasant scent youll love. [ deep inhale] freshen up. Dont cover up. Febreze. Why accept it frompt an incompyour allergy pills . E else. Flonase sensimist. Nothing stronger. Nothing gentler. Nothing lasts longer. Flonase sensimist. 24 hour nondrowsy allergy relief family is all togetherect. And we switched to geico; saved money on our boat insurance. How could it get any better than this . Dad, i just caught a goldfish theres no goldfish in this lake. Whoa its pure gold. Were gonna be rich. Were gonna be rich it only gets better when you switch and save with geico. I am royalty of racing, i am the twisting thundercloud. Raise your steins to the king of speed. Todd winkler was on trial for the murder of his wife rachel. The prosecution had a much different theory. And as they were making their case, there was a tis ddisturban the courtroom. Here is Keith Morrison with the conclusion of deadly twist. Shes found burned to death down a steep embankment. Reporter just as the prosecutor was laying out her case against todd winkler in the killing of his wife, rachel, a sudden, inexplicable outburst from todd. You are not samurai. Stop, stop, stop. Stop, stop, stop. You do not speak truth. You only want to destroy. You have no bushido. You have no bushido. Reporter bushido . In japanese, the way of the warrior, the honorbased code of conduct of a samauri. Why was todd winkler raving about it now . Was this another psychotic episode . Judge, off the bench. Stop, stop, stop. Reporter of course, the trial came to a screeching halt. A mistrial loomed. May we have the courtroom cleared . Reporter instead, the judge came down hard on todd. As i was saying the defendants former wife went on a camping trip with this defendant. She died in a fiery crash. The only witness to the crime was, in fact, this defendant. Reporter were there parallels . You bet there were, said the prosecutor. The deaths of cathy and rachel were both coldblooded, calculated killings. Hes had, now, two wives where he has been the one who has been the only witness to a crime. Reporter but, she said, based on what investigators found, the events at 3 00 in the morning in the california airpark were not so hard to determine. And she prepared the jury. What happened that night was horrific. One, todd opened rachels laptop and found the divorce documents shed been working on with her boyfriend, james. That laptop has disappeared from its ususal place in winkler home. Two, he grabbed the scissors from a craft box, which was kept on a shelf right above the computer. And three, prosecutor suder i believe he took a pair of scissors and he went in that room with the intent to kill her. He attacked her while she was sleeping, stabbed her repeatedly in the face and the neck area. And i believe, at that point, he thought he had killed her, and he left her for dead. Reporter then, said the prosecutor, as todd prepared to leave the house, he saw a light had been turned on in the babys room. So thats when he then goes, gets his motorcycle jacket on for padding, for protection, bangs in the door, finds her in that corner. Reporter cowering . Cowering. Reporter trying to save her own life . Correct. Reporter they knew that rachel spent some time after the first attack holding her baby. From prosecution closings baby alexs onesie was examined. And you know that there are drip blood, like being droplet blood, up on top of that onesie. Thats how we know that rachel was holding that baby. Reporter then todd came back. Shes in the corner there. She kicks at him. Reporter didnt stop him. He bear crawls up her body. He takes those scissors, and this exFighter Pilot jams them into her neck, and he sits there and lays there on top of her while she slowly dies. Reporter after that, for seven hours, todd cleaned up, said the prosecutor, then took his kids to the neighbors house. And then, after dropping the kids at the neighbors, but before the cops arrived, he took the time to cut his hands, to make it look as if hed been attacked by rachel. How did they know the cuts were selfinflicted . The neighbor said his hands werent cut when he dropped off the kids. And then the prosecutor told the jury about the ashes, Cathy Winklers ashes, which rachel discovered months before she was killed. And learned how there had been a crash, and he had no injuries and she had died. Rachel was upset by this and said, well, is this how im going to turn out . And this defendants reply was, well, youre not going to get in my way, are you . Reporter rachel knew she was in danger, said prosecutor suder, as a doomed young woman had already told her closest friends and family. And rachel explained that this defendant said to rachel, if you divorce me, you will end up like my last wife. She did. Reporter after 13 days of testimony the jury got the case. They were out one day. We, the jury in the above entitled action, find the defendant todd alan winkler guilty of the crime of firstdegree murder. Reporter no outburst this time. No breakdown. The former Fighter Pilot sat quietly and listened. He got 26 years to life. It was over for todd. But not for anyone else. Not really. As james whites daughter, katelyn, told us i was told that monsters dont exist. My parents always told me that. And after going through that trial and seeing what i had to see, i can tell you with absolute certainty that that is 110 false. He is a monster. Reporter and rachels men . We werent surprised to hear that james has his own idea of what justice might be. Did you have any thought about what would happen if the Justice System didnt look after todd in a way that seemed reasonable to you . He would have been dealt with. Reporter by whom . Me. Reporter you know, they could have put you in prison for life. It would have been a oneway mission. He and i are both goig to go down together. Im not going to shoot him. Im going to kill him with my two bare hands. Im going to do to him what he did to rachel. Reporter tim cherrington, the man who failed to commit and then watched the love of his life go on to her terrible end, has his own way of taking revenge, mostly on himself. Kind of a tragic love story from your point of view . It is, it is. Reporter i mean, this is a woman you couldve spent the rest of your life with. Very, very easily could, yes. I should have pulled the trigger when i had that chance, you know. I blew it. I didnt, you know, give her the ring earlier. Reporter well, youre still paying for it, arent you . Yeah. Yes, i am, yeah. Thats a tough one. Reporter different kind of thinking across the country, among the friends of that other mrs. Winkler, the one whose death on a lonely Mountain Road, is still officially labelled, accident. I mean, this is a beautiful woman who gave so much, was so nurturing and caring. I dont feel like theres been justice for cathy. I think about cathys death all the time. Reporter about whether she could somehow have done more to prevent a second death, the murder of Rachel Winkler. My heart breaks for those children. I wish i could hug them all and tell that im so sorry that i didnt press harder to make them open this case or be that strong person that i was. I apologize. After the trial, don hatfield, hell find the words to tell the story to rachels children, ariel, alex and eva. This whole story is a mixture of murder and blood and failings and grace and jesus and heaven and god, and so theres some real craziness to it. But thats the character of my life and some of rachels life. Its just kind of life in general. Reporter in the meantime, he said, hes trying to be the kind of parent he wasnt with his own children, but is now, for rachel. I believe its my destiny to raise them. I intend to do that, you know, with gods help. Thats all for this edition of dateline extra. Thank you for watching. They said, this is c4 explosive. Were gonna strap it to you. Terror. A guy is driving to the bank right now and he has a bomb strapped to his chest. Robbery they said to me, we want 4. 2 million in cash. Families taken hostage. Told to commit a crime, or else theyre going to keep the son and wife while he goes in and robs the bank. Striking again. She looks up, and heres a guy with an assault rifle. And again. For every minute that he was late his wife, was going to lose a finger. A highstakes stalemate. The Bank Employee refuses to open the vau