0 >> where's that at? >> he's currently stationed in florida. >> and your other son, where is he at? >> he's in college in north dakota. >> are they going to be home for the holidays? >> yes, they will. >> is your mother in the courtroom? >> yes. >> and your sister? >> no, she's not. >> but is your brother in the courtroom. >> yes, he is. >> and besides your brother and your mother, your father is deceased? >> yes. >> and do you have any other siblings? >> i have another sister and a brother. >> what do they -- do you know what their ages are? >> my oldest sister is in her 50s and my other brother is in his 50s also. >> my sister works for a medical device company my oldest brother works for a parking company and my other brother works for retail. >>. >> going back to when you were a youngster, where do you go to elementary school? >> immaculate conception. >> where is that? >> columbia heights. >> did you live that neighborhood? >> yes, i did. >> while you were going to that school did you have a police officer visit your school. >> yes. >> do you know his name today? >> yes, it's officer michael mcgee. >> where was he a police officer at. >> the columbia heights police department. >> why was he at your school? >> he was doing bicycle safety for grade school kids. >> and you remembered his name. anything else that was significant about him that caused you to do something in your life? >> he was -- on that occasion he really influenced me as a youngster that the police are good people and i wanted to be something like that some day. >> and because of that, and because of him being at your school, did you start out doing that? >> yes. >> what was your first job or volunteer work as a -- some type of a law enforcement officer, student, explorer, school cop? >> the first thing i did was junior high was a school patrol officer, if that counts? >> yes, that does count. what did a school patrol officer do back then? >> it was junior high so we helped the younger, grade school age children, get across the street. >> did you continue to do that throughout junior high? >> yes. sixth, seventh, and eighth grade. >> after getting in high school, what did you do? >> the police department came to my high school and had a booth set up for the police explorers. >> did you join the explorers? >> yes, i did. >> why did you join the explorers? what's the explorer? >> it's part of the boy scouts of america. it's an area where you can have career enhancement or learn about different jobs like law enforcement or fire fighting, things of that nature. >> were you an explorer throughout your high school days? >> yes, i was. >> i can't remember if i asked what high school you went to. >> tatino grace high school in fridley. >> with respect to criminal justice or law enforcement while you were in high school, besides being an explorer, did you do anything else? >> i had jobs. >> what was your job? >> my first job was at a gas station. >> what did you do there? >> clerk, cashier. >> did you continue that job through high school? >> yes. into college. >> where did you go to college? >> st. mary's college in winona, minnesota. >> that's 70 miles from here, 80? >> yes. >> what was your major at st. mary's? >> criminal justice and sociology with an emphasis on elderly studies or geriatric sociology. >> why did you take those courses? >> i wanted to go into law enforcement and i had an interest in understanding the older community and their needs and wants. >> did you graduate from st. mary's? >> yes, i did. >> was that a three year program? >> it was a four-year program, i finished it in three and a half because i had an internship in the summer. >> where did you internship? >> the columbia heights police department. >> columbia heights mark meadows columbia heights police department? >> yes. >> did you also continue your explorer career while in college? >> i stopped being an explorer after my freshman year and then i role played at the annual conference. >> what does that mean? >> every year the explorer program had an annual conference at breezy point resort and they needed role players and they liked to use students or people that were in law enforcement. >> so you graduated from st. mary's? >> yes. >> what did you do after that? >> after that i would have gone to skills. in the summer of 1994. >> okay. and what do you mean by that? >> i went to skills. >> what does that mean? >> i went to the police certification program so i could get hired. >> where was that at? >> alexandria technical college. >> in alexandria, minnesota? . >> yes. >> did you stay there while you were being educated? >> yes. >> how long of a program was that? >> 10 or 12 weeks. >> is that where you maintain your skills to apply for a police officer? >> yes, it was a hands on training. i had the college education, the book knowledge and went there for my skills program or my hands on portion of my license. >> after this program, did you go out and try to get a job in law enforcement? >> yes, i did. >> and were you successful at first? >> yes. >> did you have a job at -- >> yeah i worked at the regional treatment center, because i graduated in january -- i'm sorry in december, i couldn't go to skills until the next summer so i got a job. >> all right. so but you worked skills you were in alexandria, correct? >> yes. >> and the job you got was at the state hospital? >> yes. >> that was between your skills -- say that again. >> so i got hired there in february, and i worked for a year on a -- a calendar year, but the city police department would allow their students to -- or their employee, i'm sorry, to go to skills and still have a job on weekends or when they would get back before they got hired as a law enforcement officer. >> so at aonok state hospital what did you do. >> i was a security officer. >> and the state hospital is for -- is basically a detox center now, is that right? >> no. it had a detox. it had a county-wide detox. and a detox program. it also had drug and alcohol abuse, rehabilitation and mental illness. >> what did you do there, you were in security? >> yes. >> does that mean you had to deal with the folks that are staying there, the residents? >> yes. >> were you successful in that? >> yes. >> after working there, where did you go next? >> i left there and got hired at the city of brooklyn center. >> what year were you hired at the brooklyn center police department? >> 1995. >> and when were you sworn in? >> february the 27th. >> of 1995? >> correct. >> who was at your swearing? >> my mother and my father. >> so after you were sworn in, you started working as a brooklyn center police officer? >> yes. >> what year was that again? >> 1995. >> so would be -- my math -- 26 years before you resigned -- >> yes. >> -- is that a correct statement? >> yes. >> when you worked as a police officer for brooklyn center throughout those 26 years, did you remain a patrol officer during that time? >> i did. >> why was that? why didn't you attempt to go up the ladder like the other officers we've heard from? >> i liked my work. i enjoyed working with the community. i didn't want to be in an administrative role. >> did you also, even though you were a patrol officer, you did take part in other programs? for example, the fto program, right? >> yes, i did. >> that's the field training. >> yes, i was a field training officer for many years. >> how many years? >> i don't have an exact number, 10 to 15. >> and we've learned in this case what a field training officer does. but very briefly, what did you do? >> i would get probationers in different stages of their training, either the first phase, second phase, third phase or final phase. usually the first phase and final phase were with the same fto. and then other ftos would train the other two stages. >> why did you continue to do that for so many years? >> i felt that i had knowledge and mentorship that i could help young officers develop into somebody i would want to work with and my partners would want to work with. >> there were other programs that you volunteered for or joined -- >> yes. >> -- while you were a police officer, is that correct? >> yes. >> after you became a police officer, what was the first program that you joined or volunteered? >> i became an explorer adviser for explorer post. >> what's an explorer post? is that the younger people that -- >> yes. the program through the boy scouts of america. >> in that program you teach them about policing, is that right? >> yes. >> after that explorers program that you joined, what else did you do as a police officer? >> i was on the domestic abuse response team, i was also crisis negotiator -- >> let's stop at the domestic abuse program. how long were you on that? approximately. >> 10, 12 years, maybe more, maybe less. >> and what did that program entail? >> we would respond -- so officers would go out on a domestic awe abuse situations or domestic calls and if there was a victim of a crime or an arrest made or not an arrest made we would follow-up the next day with the victims to see that they were getting the things they needed like domestic advocates, walking them through, getting order for protections if they had questions and then helping them and checking in through the court process. >> did you enjoy doing that? >> yes. >> why? >> sometimes there were great successes and sometimes there were very sad failures. >> another program you were involved with was a hostage program? >> i was a crisis negotiator for the eou team, the emergency operations unit. >> what did you do? >> i was a crisis negotiator. >> what does that mean? >> we would go out on barricaded subjects or without with the s.w.a.t. team would be the easiest way to describe it on warrants. we would respond to calls where there may be people in danger. >> and was your job to try and negotiate with the subject and get him to submit to being arrested? >> yes, he or she. >> was that your main job? >> no, i was always a patrol officer. >> as far as a hostage negotiator that's what you did. >> yes, i was a crisis negotiator. >> what other programs were you in? >> i was on the law enforcement memorial solicitation honor guard. >> what is that? >> it's -- so the parent is the minnesota law enforcement memorial association, they do a lot of work to help survivors and their families make their way through the process of getting benefits after their officer is killed in the line of duty. i was on the honor guard. >> what did you do being on the honor guard? >> when i started in 1998, i was on the colors team for a year or two and then i went to the casket team. >> what's the color team? >> carries flags. >> and the casket team? >> we would carry the casket or the urn of the fallen officer and fold their flag. >> would you be in contact with the deceased family. >> sometimes with the family, a lot of times with the chief of police because i have to give the folded flag to the police chief. >> this was throughout the state of minnesota? >> yes. >> these were police officers killed in the line of duty. >> yes. >> or other law enforcement officers? >> 99% of it would be killed in the line of duty or we would do some retiree funerals. >> any other programs you're involved in? >>. >> i did a lot of crime prevention work for our police department and other presentations. >> crime prevention presentations? >> yes. >> what were those? >> i was assigned an apartment complex in the city and i would meet with management and we would do some programming for the residents, as far as personal safety, locking your car doors, taking valuables out of your cars. just regular safety in an apartment complex. and then i would do some other presentations on robbery preventions for banks in the city. >> by the way, when you were doing -- carrying caskets for that program, were you aware of officers killed in the line of duty by making a traffic stop? >> yes. sean patrick. >> objection, your honor, move to strike. >> the objection is overruled, i'll let the answer stand. >> during your 26 years as a police officer, did you ever receive any complaints for abusing your power? >> no. >> did you ever receive any complaints from the public? >> no. >> in training did you attend all the training sessions required by the brooklyn center police department while you were there? >> yes. >> with respect to gun training, laser training, you attended all those too, right? >> yes, i did. >> did you pay attention? >> yes, i did. >> with respect to that, in your approximation, i'm not asking for exact numbers. but with respect to the training, what would you say the amount of training was for for the firearm, for the gun, and the amount of training for the laser, what would be the percentages there? >> the firearms, it would be probably 80%. we spent more time on firearms than we did on taser. >> and tasers didn't come into being until years after you're a law enforcement officer, right? >> yes. i believe trainers in this courtroom said 2002 or 2003. >> you started as a law enforcement officer what year? >> 1995. >> with respect to laser -- tasers, did i say lasers? with respect to tasers, there's been evidence in the case that you had a taser 7, is that correct? >> yes. >> and the evidence in that was that the taser 7 had -- is shaped like a gun, father statement? >> yes. >> and the taser 7 had a dark black -- or at least a dark handle and a dark top, do you remember that? >> objection. leading. >> i'm trying to day care. >> -- i'm trying to -- >> the objection is overruled. you may answer. >> yes. >> the taser you received is it approximately a month before april 11th that you received it. >> in the courtroom i was told i received it on march the 26th. >> okay. and also, while we're there. with respect to these tasers and testing them, the rule that we read said should test the electronics every day. is that right? >> yes. >> and there's testimony that you didn't test yours a couple of days, is that right? >> yes, that's what i was told. >> do you agree with that that you didn't test it? >> i don't recall if i would have or wouldn't have. >> is that an important feature for law enforcement officers with new tasers? >> no. >> that never used them since they had them. >> correct. >> and while we're there, did you ever use a taser, use it by actually shooting it in all your years as a law enforcement officer? >> i would take my taser out on rare occasions, but i don't believe i ever deployed it. >> when you take your tazer out, it's to de-escalate what's going on, is that a fair statement? >> sometimes or to prepare for what might be behind the door, sometimes the officer has a gun and sometimes the officer has a taser out. >> now the taser that was swichd from you, did that go to one of your partners, that taser? >> my old taser? >> yes. >> i believe they were put in storage at the police department. >> and those tasers were all yellow, right? the handle, the top, the whole thing was yellow? >> yes, except the battery black, i believe that was black and there were some markings on the side. >> i'm going to show you these tasers. show you this taser -- >> objection, your honor, may we have a side bar, please? >> yes. >> the police officer accused of manslaughter has taken the witness stand. she's gone through an extensive background, she's now being asked to look at pictures of tasers versus the service revolver. with us are our nbc legal analysts joyce vance, danny se cevalis. the first thing the defense is trying to establish her credentials. >> and the defense is getting in evidence that this person was a lifer, she always wanted to be in law enforcement, she had a calling. she wasn't somebody who took a government job to hang out and collect a pension. you can see from the testimony and the jury is seeing it, all she ever wanted to be from an early age was a police officer. and that's very effective. now we're moving into the testimony about the taser. and they're going to show that recently they switched over tasers and there were possibilities that she would be unfamiliar with the new model and the new description. you see the picture right there. the taser versus block. that's a lot of yellow, and you're right. but if the taser, the model had changed in recent history, then that might go towards some distance, at least, to showing that there was a reasonable mistake. and after all, the glock is plastic, might have felt similar in the hand. you're going to see all of it. >> shaq bruster is outside the courthouse. your take so far? >> to add context to something you were hearing about the testing of the taser. there was some evidence earlier in this trial that kim potter in the days before the shooting did not test the taser -- she's back on the stand now. >> thanks so much, shaq. back to the testimony. >> was that an x-26 taser? >> i believe it was an x-26p. >> p. so -- >> with respect to the tasers, there's been evidence about signing some forms on warnings. do you remember signing those forms? >> in our annual training we'd be handed a form to sign, and i would sign it. >> and do you remember the warnings on them at all? >> not from those days, no. >> with respect to weapons confusion, was there ever any training, actual training about weapons confusion as you remember it? >> no. >> did you even know what weapons confusion was -- >> yes. >> wait until i finish the question. before april 11th? >> it would be mentioned in training but it wasn't something we physically trained on. >> by that you mean what? >> there was no training on weapons confusion. you wouldn't be set in a dark room and told to grab which weapon. >> so i'm going to go now to april 11th, 2021, a sunday. and you surely remember that day, is that correct? >> yes. >> and you were an fto that day for officer lucky? >> yes, i was. >> and that day what time did you go on duty? >> 6:00 a.m. >> was lucky on duty at that time, too? >> yes. >> what did you do during the morning? if you remember. just do drive around police work? >> we just did police work. we would have checked the squad car if we didn't have calls right away. >> it was a sunday. >> it was a sunday. >> so approximately, around 2:00, did you pull up in back of -- not you, officer lucky was driving the car, right? >> yes. >> and you were the fto. where were you seated in the car? >> in the passenger seat. >> and tell the jury what you remember about first seeing the white buick on that day, approximately 2:00 p.m. and talk slowly. >> officer lucky and i were driving south on zane avenue north we were talking about pursuit policies, doing regular fto training, and he observed a vehicle in the turn lane with a blinker on inappropriately. >> and was that the white buick? >> yes. >> and did you have a conversation with him about that? >> yes. >> and what was that conversation? >> we discussed a little bit of suspicious activity. he noticed a pine tree or air freshener hanging from the rear view mirror and the tags were expired. >> and did he want -- did you stop that vehicle? >> officer lucky wanted to stop the vehicle, yes. >> let me ask you sort of a hypothetical. if you had been working alone that day, on sunday afternoon at 2:00 would you have stopped the vehicle -- >> objection, relevance. calls for speculation. >> i can't even finish the question, your honor. >> all right. >> that's not fair. they know how to try -- >> the objection is overruled. you may answer. >> my question was, if you weren't with a field training officer that day, and you were on patrol, would you have stopped that vehicle? >> most likely not. >> why not? >> an air freshener to me is -- it's just an equipment violation, and during the covid times, the high covid times, the department of motor vehicles was so offline that people were not getting tags and we were told to not enforce a lot of those things because the tags were not in circulation. >> but you did stop the vehicle, right? >> yes. part of field trainer is my probation would make numerous contacts with the public throughout the day. >> what happened after the stop? if you remember, go ahead. >> before officer lucky stopped the car we ran the vehicle, confirmed that the registration was expired. and that the registered owner had a petty misdemeanor type warrant for some type of drug offense. >> that was the registered owner of the vehicle? >> yes. >> you did that while you were still in the squad car? >> yes. it's part of the multitasking a probationer will have to do, call in to dispatch, run the lights -- >> talk a little slower, i know you're probably nervous i'd like to get all this in. >> yes, sir. >> you stop the vehicle? >> officer lucky initiates the traffic stop. >> what happened after he did that? >> the vehicle stopped kind of in an entrance to the church on 63rd and he got on the pa and told the vehicle to pull ahead just a short distance. >> was that because he was parked in the driveway? >> yeah. i think there was a vehicle trying to come out, as i recall. >> what happened next? >> officer lucky and i exited our marked squad car. officer lucky walked up to the driver's door and i stood at the right rear corner of the white buick. >> so you did get out of the car? >> most definitely. >> why did you stand where you were standing? >> part of it was so i could see where officer lucky was and to provide cover to see what else was in the vehicle. >> in your experience of 26 years in being a patrol officer all of those years, is stopping any vehicle any time that you don't know, is that considered a dangerous situation? >> yes. >> why? >> sometimes there's guns in in the car, sometimes there's uncooperative people. you don't know who you're stopping. >> because you don't know, right? >> right. >> so while you were standing there, at the rear of the vehicle, did you hear what officer lucky said? >> i could hear parts of the conversation. he didn't seem to be in any distress when he was asking questions. he took out his note pad and it looked like he was writing down something which would end up being a name and date of birth. >> after he did that, did you two go back to the squad car? >> yes. >> at some point in time, during the stop or right after it, did officer lucky do anything in connection with obtaining another squad car? >> yes, he called for a second car to come. >> what is that about? >> just a backup officer. the registered owner had a warrant of some nature. it wasn't a -- a bad warrant, it was just a regular petty warrant, which would still -- you'd want a second officer. or i guess in this second a third officer. officer lucky and i are considered one officer. >> why are you just one officer? >> because he's in field training and a probationary employee. >> did the third officer, officer johnson arrive at some point in time? >> yes. sergeant johnson arrived. >> was that before you looked up in the computer about the driver of the vehicle or after? >> i don't know exactly when he arrived. i know officer lucky and i were doing -- or officer lucky and i were discussing running the name he was given through some various systems. >> did you do that, you and officer lucky? >> yes. >> was there any correction that you told him about during this time that he shouldn't have put the name in one -- >> he had gone to the minnesota -- because the driver didn't provide him with any government issued id, he would have had to verify some information to run him properly in our system through tri tech. so we run through minnesota dbs with a name and date of birth it gives you a hit on various people with the same name or common name with a date of birth. >> so did you correct him on that? >> we were talking about it. i don't know if i corrected him on it. >> so what happened after that? >> he would copy the oln, which is a driver's license number off the screen and then put it into our tri tech system or cad, and that runs him through the state for driver's license, warrants and other hits. >> did you find anything about the driver? >> the driver came back with a suspended driver's license, gross misdemeanor for weapons. >> so what went through your mind, if anything, when you read that? >> it would be concerning that there would be a weapon on the person or in the vehicle. >> why would that be? >> in my experience over 26 years, i have found guns in cars, either by accident or by them just being -- sitting out in plain view. >> what about a person with a weapons warrant? >> they're more likely to be carrying a weapon or have a weapon access to them. >> so what about the temporary -- was it a temporary restraining order that came out? >> i think they're called ex parte orders. it would be a temporary protection order until the parties would have a court hearing in front of a judge to make it a permanent order. >> and there would be the name of a female on that order? >> yes, there was. >> was there a female in the buick -- in the automobile that was stopped? >> yes. in the front passenger seat. >> so after you learned that, did you also learn something that officer -- did officer lucky tell you something about drugs or marijuana? >> when he initially got back to the car, he told me there was obvious smell of marijuana and some seedlings or shake residue on the center console inside the vehicle. >> okay. so with all that information, what did you do next? >> officer lucky explained to sergeant johnson what was going on -- >> where was sergeant johnson? was he in your squad car? >> he was standing at my passenger door. >> go ahead. >> and officer lucky was explaining to sergeant johnson what was happening and what he wanted to do. officer lucky only told sergeant johnson that he had a warrant and i told officer lucky that he needed to tell sergeant johnson what the warrant was for, the weapons violation warrant would be cause for care and concern. >> all right. after that conversation, what happened, if anything, next? >> we got out of the vehicle, sergeant johnson was going to the passenger side -- >> excuse me, back up a little bit. what was the plan when you got out of your vehicle with lucky and johnson was outside? what was the plan? >> the plan was for officer lucky to get the driver into custody for the warrant and we'd further investigate with the female who she was and if she was the petitioner or the subject of the restraining order. >> were you required by policy and law, in learning about that warrant, to arrest the driver of that car? >> yes, it was an order of the court. >> and with respect to the restraining order, or whatever you called it, did proper police procedure that you knew of for 26 years require to find out who that lady was? >> yes. >> why would that be? >> it's my duty to find out who she is to make sure she is not in harm's way. there's been times when that hasn't happened and somebody has ended up killed. because that wasn't followed. >> so now we're at the buick. it's a buick car, white car? >> it's a white car. >> now we're at the white car. and you three went up to the, it, correct? >> yes. sergeant johnson went up the passenger side to provide cover. >> what does provide cover mean? >> keep an eye on the occupants of the vehicle. and just to monitor what's happening outside in the world. see if people are walking up on you or things go wrong. >> where were you located? >> i was towards the left rear corner of the car. >> and where was officer lucky? >> he was advancing to the driver's door. >> by the way, before this, how long had you known officer lucky? >> i think we were on our fifth shift. >> and he was pretty new arrival, was he? >> i believe he was second phase maybe. but he had been a police officer before. >> what does second phase mean? >> he wasn't in his initial four week, he was in the start of his second four weeks. >> you testified you knew at least back then that he had come from another police department,, correct? >> yes. i think he worked at two previous agencies and he was an explorer. >> let's go back to when you three arrived at the white car. we've already said where you were located. officer lucky was at the driver's door, is that right? >> yes, he would have been behind the post of the driver's door and the rear passenger door. >> what do you mean by that? >> he wouldn't be directly in front of the door because that would be an unsafe approach. >> was this a warm day? was the window down, do you remember? >> i don't know if the window was down or not. >> okay. but in any event, where were you standing again? >> at the left rear corner. >> did you hear what officer lucky said? >> yes, i heard him ask the driver to step out of the vehicle, a couple of times. >> and did the driver step out of the vehicle finally? >> finally he asked officer lucky a couple of times what was going on and officer lucky said he would explain to him. >> when he got out of the car? >> yes. >> did the driver get out of the car? >> yes. >> what do you remember happening next? >> officer lucky had him turn around and i think he was still asking what was going on -- >> who's "he"? >> the driver. >> go ahead. >> and sergeant johnson and lucky told him he was under arrest. and i told him he had a warrant. >> okay. so who said he was under arrest first? >> sergeant johnson, i believe. >> and sergeant johnson testified here, do you remember that? >> yes. >> and after he said that, did officer lucky say he's under arrest too? >> yes. >> and you heard that? >> yes. >> what did you say then? >> i told him he had a warrant. >> you just said warrant? >> i think so. >> did you specify what kind of warrant, if you remember? if you don't -- >> i don't think i would have. it would have been my normal. >> so what happened after johnson and lucky said you're going to be handcuffed or you're under arrest and you said there was a warrant, what happened next? >> officer lucky had him put his hands behind his back and in the driver's right hand was something, paper or something, and i took it out of his hand and had it in my left hand. >> you had that in your left hand? >> yes. >> then what happened next? strike that. when you did that, i take it you got closer to the driver? >> yes. i reached out to the driver and took out what he had in his right hand? >> right hand or left hand? >> his right hand, and i held it in my left hand. >> what happened next? >> officer lucky started to say something about don't do that, don't tense up. stop doing that. and then it just went chaotic. >> what do you remember happening after that? >> i remember a struggle with officer lucky and the driver at the door. the driver was trying to get back into the car. >> while he was trying to get back in the car, what did you do? >> i went around officer lucky as they're trying to get back in the door, i'm between the door and officer lucky. and the driver. and the driver is getting into the car. >> and what happened next? >> they're still struggling and i can see sergeant johnson and the driver struggling over the gear shift because i can see johnson's hand and then i can see his face. >> and you knew johnson for many years before this, is that right? >> yes. >> by looking at his face at that point in time, what did you interpret it to mean? >> he had a look of fear on his face. it's nothing i'd seen before. >> did you say anything when you saw this? what did you do? >> we were struggling. we were trying to keep him from driving away. it just -- it just went chaotic. and then, i remember yelling taser, taser, taser. and nothing happened. and then he told me i shot him. >> can you proceed? >> yes, it's fine. >> okay. after the driver said you shot hum, do you remember what you said? if you don't remember, did you look at the video and see what you said? do you actually remember what you said, i guess is my question. not with help from a video? >> i don't remember what i said. >> and what do you remember next, if anything? >> they had an ambulance for me, and i don't know why. and then i went -- then i was at the station. i don't remember a lot of things afterwards. >> do you remember sawing something about prison? >> no. >> if you did say that, do you have any idea now why you would say that? >> no. >> was the climate back then about police officers a little rough? >> objection, your honor. >> the objection is sustained. >> all right. >> you don't remember saying it. >> no. >> and you don't know why you said it? >> no. >> did you -- do you remember the response that sergeant johnson or major johnson gave you? >> no. >> when next do you remember what happened, if anything? if you remember. >> you remember getting an ambulance and then i was at the station. >> okay. and do you remember being in the ambulance, arriving at the station? >> no. >> you don't remember -- >> no. >> -- the station? >> i remember getting to the station. >> once you got to the station, do you remember what happened next? >> the next thing i remember is officer fricky was in the room with me. >> where were you located, do you remember that? >> in the front office. >> do you remember were you sitting down, standing up? >> i was on the floor. >> and after that, at some point in time did your husband show up? >> yes. >> at what time do you believe from back there, april 11th, at what time do you believe that your memory came back to you? >> probably when my husband got there. so much of it is missing. >> after that night, and for the last few months, have you been in therapy? >> yes. >> and did you -- you still work as a police officer there? >> no. >> did you quit? >> i did. >> and this was your career? >> yes. >> and when did you quit? >> a day or two after the incident. >> and why did you quit? >> there was so much bad things happening, i didn't want my co-workers, i didn't want anything bad to happen to the city. >> and did you own a home at the time? >> yes. >> objection, your honor, relevance. >> you and your husband? >> excuse me. >> the objection is relevance. >> the objection is overruled. you may answer. >> did you own a home, your family home for years? >> yes. >> and did you sell it? >> eventually. >> before you sold it, did you move out of the state? >> yes. >> and do you now live out of state? >> yes. >> may i have a moment, your honor? >> yes. >> thank you. um done, your honor. i'm done, your honor. >> you may cross. >> good morning, ms. potter. >> good morning. >> you've been a police officer -- or were a police officer for 26 years? >> yes. >> is that right? you said you started in 1995. >> yes. >> and that was with the brooklyn center police department for that entire career, right? >> yes. >> you said that you resigned from the brooklyn center police department, right? >> yes. >> and that was on april 12th of this year, right? >> within a day or two of the incident. >> right after you had shot and killed dante wright. >> yes. >> throughout that time period you were a licensed peace officer, right? >> yes. >> and to become licensed you have to go through a number of requirements, fair? >> yes. >> you had a college degree -- >> excuse me, your honor, can you ask her to speak into that mic? >> sure. >> thank you. >> you have a college degree, right? >> yes. >> and you also had to complete the peace officer education program, that skills component you talked about? >> yes. >> that included skill sets and classroom training as well. >> yes. >> you had to pass an exam to become an officer? >> yes. >> you did all that before you started with the brooklyn center police department in '95, right? >> yes. >> and then you got your license through the post board, correct? >> yes. >> and that stands for peace officer standards in training? >> yes. >> so you were licensed throughout that whole 26-year career, right? >> yes. >> and you maintained all of the requirements to keep your license? >> yes. >> including all the training that was required for it as well, right? >> yes. >> and that training that's required for your license has all different kinds of components, true? >> yes. >> things like use of force, use of firearms, tasers, all kinds of things? >> yes. >> and you did all that training? >> yes. >> you did that every year throughout that 26-year period, right? >> yes. >> sometimes multiple times a year, right? >> yes. >> and all of those requirements were in place to make sure that you continued -- at the beginning of your career and continued to be competent and capable of performing the requirements of the job, right? >> yes. >> you mentioned on direct that you were also a hostage negotiator as part of your duties, right? >> crisis negotiator. >> crisis negotiator. did that involve some hostage-type situations? >> i never had a hostage situation. >> but crisis situation? >> yes. >> and that evolved some deescalation tactics, i presume. >> yes. >> you had to be pretty good at de-escalating situations as a crisis negotiator, fair? >> yes. >> you had experience in stressful situations doing that? >> no. >> so you were a crisis negotiator but never experienced a stressful situation? >> we talked to people. >> talked to people in crisis? >> yes. >> and part of your job as a police officer is dealing with people part of your job as a police officer is dealing with people on their worst days. correct? >> yes. >> people who don't want to cooperate with you sometimes. correct? >> most of the people we talk to in crisis are either barricaded behind a door or talking to them from another room. >> okay. for 26 years you were a patrol officer. correct? >> yes. >> so you saw people on the street every day as part of your job duties? >> yes. >> and you talked about doing a lot of traffic stops during that career. correct? >> i did some traffic stops. >> well, in some of those cases, there are people who have weapons. right? >> yes. >> sometimes people want to flee. right? >> yes. >> sometimes people are violent in. >> yes. >> and all of that is part of being a police officer, dealing with people in those situations. right? >> yes. >> you'd agree that you're bound by policy and the requirements of the job that brooklyn center police department sets for you. >> yes. >> and you heard the commander testify that you have to acknowledge those policies and essentially agree to abide by them every year you were an officer. fair? >> yes. >> and you'd agree that your fundamental duty as a police officer is to safeguard life. right? >> yes. >> you also have the duty to never employ unnecessary force. correct? >> yes. >> part of the policy also includes some of your responsibilities as an officer. right? >> yes. >> that includes being alert and attentive and capable of performing your job. right? >> yes. >> and getting back to the training and sort of the post requirements, there's a lot of training that goes into being a police officer. fair? >> yes. >> we talked about a couple of those things, but one of those subjects is use of force. right? >> uh-huh. >> is that a yes? >> yes. >> and use of force can include things like restraints, handcuffs, defensive tactics, chemical irritants using batons, tasers, less lethal weapons and firearms as well. right? all those things are options available to you? >> true. not all of them. >> well, you carry a whole number of things on your duty belt every day. right? >> yes. >> and that includes a firearm and a taser, right? >> yes. >> and you also had other items on that duty belt as well. correct? >> yes. >> and as part of the training that you went through every year, they cover topics, all kinds of uses of force. right? >> yes. >> including the things on your duty belt and maybe other things the department can use as well? >> only the things i was assigned on my duty belt. >> okay. in any case, that use of force training was a pretty key component of being an officer, right? >> yes. >> you were trained about when you could use force, how much force to use, and what would be appropriate force. fair? >> fair. >> and not only were you trained on that, but you had a lot of policy that dictated what you could and could not do in a particular situation. right? >> yes. >> and you were also trained on the readiness aspects of use of force. right? being ready to engage whatever force might be required. right? >> yes. >> including making decisions under stress. right? >> what do you mean? >> well, you had a lot of scenario-based training. right? >> yes. >> and in those situations, those scenarios were set up to be as close as they could being to real life. right? >> i suppose. >> so you would be trained to have to make decisions in the moment about what to do and what force to use? >> it was a training situation, so it was usually slow and meticulous and controlled. >> well, you did this year after year, right? for the entirety of your career. correct? >> i think scenario-based training started later, probably the last 10 or 15 years. >> sure, but use of force training has been around for a long time. right? >> yes. >> because since you started as a police officer, you have in some cases had to use force. true? >> yes. >> and there are limitations on how and when to use that force. right? >> yes. >> so you've had training on that throughout your entire career. right? >> yes. >> and as part of that process, the way that it's required for you to maintain your license, is that you sign it and then you sign off on attendance forms and you basically -- you have to be there. right? you can't not be there. right? >> right. >> and every year you have a certain number of training hours that are required. right? >> yes. >> and you said on direct that you participated and you were paying attention during all those trainings. true? >> yes. >> and some of those trainings had classroom instruction, powerpoints, things like that. right? >> yes. >> some of them also included reviewing policies and other documents. right? >> yes. >> and then there was also the hands on training with the practical components, things like using, drawing, drawing weapons, things like that. right? >> yes. >> and over the course of your career, you completed many, many, many hours of training. right? >> yes. >> and in terms of credit hours, we're talking somewhere in the ballpark of 1700 credit hours? does that sound right? >> i don't know the number of hours, but if that's what you have, that would be probably right. >> no reason to dispute that? your training or hours would have been in the thousands of hours over that 26-year career. right? >> yes. >> you indicated that there weren't tasers available when you first started at brooklyn center? >> no. they came in the early thousands. >> okay. >> but in 1996, you had a firearm. right? >> in 1995, yes. >> sorry, 1995, and then you were sworn in 1996? >> no, february 27th, 1995. >> in '9 5 when you first started you had a firearm available to you? >> yes. >> and you were trained to use that firearm? >> yes. >> trained how to handle it? >> yes. >> trained how to load it and unload it? >> yes. >> trained how to draw it? >> yes. >> and fire it? and how to safely handle it? yes? >> yes. >> and that included when not to fire it. right? >> i suppose. >> and that training started at the beginning of your career you said in '95 but continued every year up until the time you resigned. right? >> yes. >> now, you indicated that tasers came later, but you were first trained on using a taser in 200 2. correct? >> if that's what the documents say, i'm not sure when they came out. >> and if the documents say you were trained in 2002, you then would have been trained every year thereafter. right? >> yes. >> and you started carrying a taser on your duty belt regularly as of 2005 right? >> yes. but at a minimum, in addition to all the other training you had, you would have had taser training year after year for at least the last 19 years. right? >> yes. >> and the taser training that's required, you saw the documents that were in court, also requires not only review of -- it requires review of policy. right? the taser policy? right? >> yes. >> and it also requires practicing those reaction site draws. correct? >> sometimes. >> all right. if we could put up exhibit 334, please, the last page. what's already been admitted as exhibit 334. we're going to scroll down to the very last page and highlight the subsection c. part of the taser policy includes that all training should include cross draws to reduce the possibility of accidentally drawing and firing a firearm. that's part of the policy. right? >> that's what it says. >> and that's part of what you're trained to do. correct? >> we aren't always drawing our tasers from our hollisters. a lot of times we were in plain