Reelected and so he seized on genuinely promising, though very limited initial signs about this malaria drug and day and night he, folks on trump tv flogged it and pushed it. A drug called chloroquine some would add hydroxy, hydroxychloroquine. Its been around a long time. If things dont go as planned, its not going to kill anybody. If i had the choice, i would use it for me and im only speaking for me. In a lot of ways, hydroxychloroquine is the ideal medicine. At this point it come across as a game changer. What do you have to lose . Take it. I really think they should take it. Watching people in the media talk down a potentially life saving medicine because a politician they dont like endorsed it is probably the most shameful think i have seen. Just recently a friend of mine told me he got better because of the use of that drug. What do you have to lose . Been taking it for 40 years for malaria. The word is out. The people get it. These people dont get it. The media. But the people get it. We now know this is not just speculation and hype. Behind the scenes, the Trump Administration was trying to force the drug on americans in contra vengs of scientific advice. They ousted a doctor in the midst of a pandemic, dr. Rick bright that says part of the reason he was ousted and removed from his post in the midst of the pandemic is because he quote resisted efforts to provide an unproven drug, hydroxychloroquine on demand to the american public. On demand. Well, now, we have the emails obtained by vanivanity fair showing the Trump Administration quote really wanted to flood new york and new jersey with the drug. A drug that had not been sufficiently tested for treatment of coronavirus. The fda is cautioning against using that drug outside of the hospital setting, outside of a Clinical Trial due to the risk of heart rhythm problems and researchers have cut short a study of the drug siting a high risk of death from the people taking it nearly two dozen died after taking doses daily. Now the evidence here is mixed but thats why it needs to be studied and now trump tvs Laura Ingraham and Tucker Carlson and sean hannity you saw on tape are trying to moon walk away from the notion they were pushing this drug in the first place. But here is the thing, the president has not given up on the idea of some magical solution because he is incapable of thinking about this as a longterm battle that requires strategy and care and competence and expertise. Nope. He still wants the magic bullet to save him and his reelection so here he is yesterday just brainstorming on how to cure the coronavirus and as you watch this, please keep your eyes on dr. Debra birx who had been up until you a long respected Health Professional who morg mortgaged her reputation on helping this man. Suppose we hit the body with a tremendous whether its ultraviolet or just powerful light and i think you said that hasnt been checked but youre going to test it and i said suppose you brought the light inside the body, which you can do through the skin or in some other way, and i think you said youre going to test that, too. Sounds interesting. And then i see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute and is there a way we can do Something Like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs so it would be interesting to check that. That deep breathe she takes there when he says injection, a cleaning. Test that, too, have you run that down for me . Yes, yes, yes, as everyone noted thats insane and sounds insane but hes the president. Thats the guy running the country. People listen. The Maryland Emergency Management Agency said it received several calls regarding questions of disinfectant and companies had to warn people not to drink it. Lysol said quote due to recent speculation and social media activity, we should be clear under no circumstance should our disinfectant products be administered into the human body. Clorox put out a statement warning people not to put the products into their bodies and warnings from the epa and cdc and Surgeon General who implored people to please talk to your Health Care Provider before administering Health Care Treatment to yourself or a loved one. Just today trump lied and said his initial comment was sar t sarcastic and went ahead after lying and saying it was sar tfw ti sarcastic. This is happening on a day when the death toll from this virus has reached 51,000, more than 51,000 americans died from it. He said the cases were going down to zero in february. Were heading towards a million cases. On our way to that. 26 Million People have lost their jobs. And day after day after day were seeing theres no real plan. Theres no plan or Solutions Coming from the white house. Instead, there is every night carried on this network and others a twohour pathological narcissistic where the president feels some sense of satisfaction because people are watching him and goes back to watching more tv. Here with me now the journalist who wrote the vanity fair piece to push chloroquine as a plan for treating coronavirus. They are really quite startling emails. What did you find . Nice to be with you, chris. Thanks for having me on. The emails really are stunning because what they show is a very clear high level Pressure Campaign to essentially flout or circumvent regulations for patient safety, pressure on Career Health officials to make the drugs widely available and then just the plan thats expressed in these emails like, you know, want to flood new york and new jersey with treatment courses and, you know, thats a final answer essentially to paraphrase, were pushing this into pharmacies and in one email saying the eua, which is the fdas rule matters not and the idea was to get this to essentially any patient that wanted it through pharmacies even when all of the top government clinicians and the fdas own rules stated that this should only be used in strictly monitored hospital settings and preference in hospitalbiassed Clinical Trials. It one thing if obviously i think we all learned from the aids crisis, i think, that the fda isnt the final word on invoii invasi invasion, risk and reward and got a lot wrong and act up folks that pushed them past what they were willing to do. There is no final authority. It clear that its different to say look, yes, lets try this drug in clinical settings and hospitals. Lets let doctors use it and observe what happens. This is something else. We want to push this over the objections of the fda so every person in this area can go to the pharmacy basically and take this outside of those sort of supervised trials. Thats right. On march 24th, the top working group of clinicians and the government counter medical measures group came to an internal consensus statement saying the drugs are dangerous. They havent been properly studied and they should only be used for treatment of covid19 in these strictly controlled hospital trials. And despite that, it was very clear the fdas top lawyer who is a political appointee sent out an email here is the plan were going to, you know, hand this over to this agency to kind of create a study design and the president wants to announce it from the podium. You know, it was i have the emails link it to the white house so the Pressure Campaign was pretty clear and, you know, Career Health officials were ex fre extremely concerned. They felt this plan did not protect patients and put them at risk. Didnt have enough monitoring and controls and the drugs, i mean, this is not they may not be as dangerous as clorox or lysol but these are drugs that come with risks of cardiac events. There was tremendous concern. We should note that dr. Bright who is heading up the governments in 2016 and an expert on developing vaccines, particularly against influenzalike threats, until your reporting, he was basically saying look, this is what im saying. This is my claim i was removed because i stood in the way of this but your reporting provides t the first black and white smoking evidence what was going on was going on. There was a plan to push the drug on demand. It confirms that part of it, right . It absolutely does. I maybe ever meean, one email i states from an employee in rick brights agency when the plan is unveiled, weve been hit by a bus, now we hit back. The hitting back appears to be to try to corral this plan and change it so that the chloroquine drugs in the national stockpile, the requirement is they can only be used in a hospital setting but further emails show that, you know, top Trump Officials are saying forget about that rule, and not good enough. Push it out through the distribution channels. Fantastic reporting. Everyone should go read that article and emails that are unbelievably damming, thank you very much. Thank you so much for having me. I want to turn to senator cory booker, democrat of new jersey who tweeted out today quote i dont believe i have to say this but dont ingest or digest disinfectant into your body. Would it be better if the president stopped doing these dog and pony shows . Yes. Unequivocally yes. Hes not being constructive and we see now hes putting lives at risk with that outrageous advice that further threw gasoline on every gutter aspect of the internet with crack pot there r ryes how people could be cured. This would be funny if people werent dying at rates in my state that are still outrageous and unacceptable and that folks are looking for hope and hes not providing it. He is undermining a National Effort to do what is necessary to make our nation strong and safe. How is your your state is in the thick of it right now. From the case data and fatality data from new york state, which was the worst hit state, it appears that it is past its plateau. Its a little less clear in new jersey thats the case, which is still in the midst of probably the worst part of the epidemic. How is your state doing . Look, the new jersey toughness and the grit here is impressive and folks are light workers all around our state and im talking to people from north to south and just seeing incredibly beautiful stories but were still going through hell. Not only is economic damage hurting so many families, talked to unions today and businesses that have laid off, furloughed people but the Health Crisis i mean, god, i spent a lot of my day doing condolence calls and talking to people on front line of the medical fight. So this is a very difficult time where the second state in fatalities. The second highest state in cases and we are a long way to go until we get through this hell and thats why we need a president that is going to actually offer solutions and do things we really need them to do on the federal level. The president today signing that sort of 3. 5 cares act relief bill which some are seeing as a followup to the one that passed a few weeks ago to replenish some of the funding for the Payroll Protection Program for Small Businesses and workers as well as money for hospitals but im starting to hear you heard Mitch Mcconnell say it and ted cruz said okay, okay, enough of this spending and of this helping, Mitch Mcconnell said states in fiscal trouble should declare bankruptcy and called any money for the states a blue state bailout. What do you think about this idea they are going to tell the states across the nation tough you guys should just go declare bankruptcy. You got to fire your workers. You got to do it. Thats ridiculous. So when hurricanes hit the gulf coast, socalled red states, florida, i voted for massive resources to infuse into the states to help with the crisis as we should. Right now, in our state and a number of states were in jeopardy of going to such a financial crisis that we lay off critical workers, ambulance drivers, firefighters, teachers, police officers, think about this for a second. We are a country that quickly bailed out some of the biggest businesses and corporations we have but when it comes to truly essential workers, a leader in our federal government has just said youre expendable. Well, im telling you right now thats just not the case. If we do not get critical money for regions of our country like ours that are getting hit by a hell of a storm greater than anything weve seen in our lifetime taking more lives than wars take and our federal government cant step up for these families and communities who are being protected by those folks and served in essential ways by those folks, that is so unamerican and such a front to our ideas as a nation and so this is going to be one hell of a fight. There is no way youre going to sell out worker doing the toughest jobs and putting themselves at risk when we need them right now. Final question about where your state is. The Governor Phil Murphy was talking about some money that was from earmarked from new jersey in one of the previous relief bills, i think 1. 2 billion because of some technical Strings Attached to it and the statutory sense is likely unusable, what do you know about that . Are you working on that . Do what does that mean . This is part of a tough negotiation in the first cares act where Mitch Mcconnell now brought two bills to the floor. Democrats stopped them and were able to get more things into them. One thing they got in is funding for state and local governments. The challenge is that flexible dollars or not . We got a lot of assurances when treasury would write the rules, they would write them in a way to be flexible enough new jersey could use the moneys to deal with the crisis we have. Unnoi unfortuna unfortunately, it doesnt seem to have been honored. Wow. Well, that seems like a big deal. Thats an understatement. Again, when we have, you know, im sitting here in new jersey and my the largest city in the state and said their expenditures are going so far up and revenues going down and they are in danger of laying off critical workers, firefighters get laid off. People that are doing the front line work, i mean, were basically saying as a country larger corporations who got hundreds of billions of dollars, yeah, thats something that the republicans in the senate can support but not front line workers. That doesnt make sense to me. Were better than that as a country and we got to step up and support states. Well find out if we are. Senator cory booker, thank you for making time tonight. Thank you very much, chris, as always. I really appreciate your reporting. Ahead, just three months removed from his impeachment acquittal, remember that . President trumps corruption continues. A man that warned us about that situation. Congressman adam schiff joins me next. Congressman adam schiff joins me next hold my pouch. Trust us. Us kids are ready to take things into our own hands. Dont think so . Hold my pouch. Do you remember when the president was im peached earlier this year, the third time in American History . That ended in february less than three months ago if you can believe it. It sure feels like another lifetime but here is the thing, if you go back and you look at what the president was im pempd for the dangerous tendencies like putting his personal political interest above the National Interest and distinguishing between the two, retaliation against whistleblowers, all selfserving corruption. All of that were seeing on deadly display right now day after day because you cannot trust him to do what is right. That is what impeachment manager adam schiff warned us about back in january. And you know you cant trust this president to do whats right for this country. You can trust he will do whats right for donald trump. Hell do it now. Hes done it before. Hell do it for the next several months. Hell do it in the election if hes allowed to. This is why if you find him guilty, you must find that he should be removed. Because right matters. Because right matters. And the truth matters. Otherwise we are lost. Everywhere you look, of course, there is the corrupt intent in everything the president does. A selfserving desire to put his political future above anything else in the middle of a pandemic killing tens of thousands of fellow americans. Today for instance we learned the president owes tens of millions of dollars to the bank of china and the loan is do in what could be trumps second term which i dont know, may or may not explain why the president praised china and leaders at least 15 times since the virus was spreading even though he wants to memory hold that now. You never know. One of the nations leading vaccine experts demoted we talked about the last block told us he had to resist a push to fund potentially dangerous drugs, listen to this, promoted by those with political connections. President was many pushing a drug with unknown side effects because people around him would profit just like the president s associates running around ukraine to score lucrative business deals, right . Same thing. There is so much more. We were warned. Democrats in congress impeached President Trump in 52 out of 53 republican senators voted to him him there and now here we are again. Joining me now, the man that warned us about the president , the chair of the House Intelligence Committee adam schiff democrat of california. I wonder how you think about what happened a few months ago, that that episode which seems like all things on the other side of this fence in time of before and after the pandemic hit the u. S. There is bun thing you have to say haunts me from the trial and it was before that snippet you showed where we knew we had to answer the question to the senators, okay, essentially house managers, you proved him guilty, does he really need to be removed after all . We have an election in nine months. How much damage could we really do . And we posed that question to the senate and we answered it by saying that he could do an awful lot of damage but frankly, chris, i dont think we had any idea how much damage he would go on to do in the months ahead. There are 50,000 americans now who are dead in significant part because of his incompetence, because of his inability to think beyond himself and put the country first. I dont think we would have ever anticipated that his brand of narcissim and his brand of incompetence would be so fatal to the American People but probably, you know, the strongest echo of what we were talking about during the trial was when he was earlier talking about how he didnt want to return the calls from governors. He didnt want his Vice President to return calls from governors that werent saying nice things about him, that really werent saying things about him he could turn into Campaign Commercials as he has. That was such a profound and disturbing echo of what he tried to do with ukraine. So sadly, you know, as we pointed out during the trial, a man with no moral compass will never find his way and this president certainly hasnt. You know, what im struck by is i remember back and think about that then and now is that the one argument that was not a very good argument that republicans made but at least granted the fact such as they were defenseble in that way which is that he didnt really get away with it in the end, right . It aull didnt come to some big political explosion and didnt actually get them to roll over and do the interview as his chief political. It was a near business. What happened to damage a relationship but here it didnt happen. The mistakes werent small. We got hit. Well, thats exactly right. I have to think that his disbanding of that Pandemic Office within the white house and the National Security counsel, that was meant to be a trip wire for a potential pandemic established under the Obama Administration he had to get rid of because it was a product of the Obama Administration and the fund mental insecurity towards his predecessor meant he had to do away with anything related to president obama. When the virus hit, the happy talk and wishing it away, all of the leaving our country vulnerable because he thought that was politicallied y ed waso form. Such tragic and deadly consequences. This idea what can you do for me or not, everything dependent on favorite. A lot of federal government functioned, i will the of corrupt machines in city poli c politics and states have functioned. This headline today in the midst of the pandemic Connections Matter for getting crucial equipment. A white house connection helps if you want a contract for ventilato ventilators. The ways lifesaving crucial information and equipment are being a portioned around the country can you put any faith it is being done based on science or sort of neutral standards . Well, you know, you really cant. You cant have confidence with this president that either contracts are going out to those that are most capable of producing the gear instead of cronies or friends of the president. You cant have confidence that money thats going out to preserve jobs in industry will go out on the basis of need rather than the basis of favoring friends and punishing enemies. You cant have confidence that ventilators are being allocated to states with protective gear on the basis of those states that are most in need. Grow simply cant have that confidence with this president. Theres too much evidence to the contrary that the not how he thinks. Indeed, i think he thinks people that operate that pay, that operate in the National Interest, not the personal interest are somehow dupes but that is just not who he is and that the not going to change. So we have i think a desperate responsibility right now to do everything we can in congress to oversee these expend tos and int on accountability but he is true to form as he was retaliating against whistleblowers months ago. He was retailuating against them now going after inspector generals months ago, he is firing them now and you can only imagine what he will try to do to interfere with the investigation involving dr. Bright and his complaint that administration was pushing this in the early experience in the v. A. To be doing more harm than good. Congressman adam shift, thank you for joining us tonight. Thanks, chris. Coming up, were learning more and more about how the coronavirus spreads. How the masks were all wearing may be affecting that spread and well talk about what were learning and fascinating new studies, next. Dont go anywhere. Studs,ie next. Dont go anywhere. Dont bring that mess around here, evan whoo dont do it. Dont you dare. I dont think so [ sighs ] its okay, big fella. Were gonna get through this together. [ baseball bat cracks ] nice rip, robbie. Raaah when you bundle home and Auto Insurance through progressive, you get more than just a big discount. Im gonna need you to leave. You get relentless protection. [ baseball bat cracks ] youyothats why kubotasl. Ion. 1,100 dealers are working to keep you working. Call or email your kubota dealer about 0 financing. No payments for 90 days offer expires 5 31. Together we do more. 9. 95 . No way. . 9. 95 . Thats impossible. Hi, im jonathan, a manager here at Colonial PennLife Insurance company, to tell you it is possible. 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We are still coming to understand the features and charact characters and traits and this open on going question about how you catch it, right . We know its transmit in all kinds of ways but just how contagious is it and people are wiping down their mail and their packages, they worry in the parks if people jog too close to them outside and all of that might be transmission. It looks like its possible but increasingly it seems the main method of transmission, the way its mainly being transmitted is saliva droplets spread through air being expelled by people with coughs and sneezes. Kerry sanders did this amazing segment breaking down what that looks like and how that works. The engineering professors use a dummy to simulate the cough droplets we all create. Three, two, one. The team uses a laser to follow how far those droplets travel. When youre looking at is a m g mixture that creates smoke ten to 20 microns in size, the same size and weight of the droplets of fluid we expel when we cough. The simulation shows the projection three feet traveled in less than two seconds. Within 12 seconds. Thats at six feet. And in 41 seconds. There we go, nine feet and that was a cough, would you say . That was a heavy, heavy cough. In some tests we saw it travel up to 12 feet. Increasingly mace ks are common place. The use of a mask is to protect other people, not you. It dissipates a cough. Masks do make a difference and prolonged indoor exposure, people sitting in close quarters breathing the air of of each other, look at the blue chairs are people who got infected and look how clustered together most of them are, just sitting right next to each other working basically on top of each other. Joining me to talk about what we know about coronavirus transmission is dr. Angela a vie ro virologist at colombia universitys school of public health. So maybe start with the sort of overview about, like, what are the main vectors . Do we think is the main thing that is transmitting the virus, the highest risk stuff and we can move towards the possible but not the thing thats driving infection. Sure, chris. The primary mode of transmission for this virus is respiratory droplets as you just stated and that study from south korea demonstrates that. You have a lot of people in one room getting ineffectfected whi other rooms on the same floor werent as affected. These are not small particle aerosols hanging in the room circulating through the building and air conditioning system. This is really transmission of those types of respiratory droplets, the larger particles from people who are all in the same space together sharing the same space. And we think that largely, most of the transmission is driven by this method. And that makes me as were learning about this and thinking about what the world looks like right after lockdown. You know, it makes you think about subway cars and crowded buses. It makes you think about concert venues and big College Lecture closes someone sits there for an hour and a half. It to me puts into focus workplaces where they dont have, you know, actual offices. All the places that look like theyre probably going to be the most high risk. Is that fair . Thats very fair. I think one of the things this study under scores is how effective these physical distancing and stay at home measures really are for reducing the spread of the illness. In an Office Environment and crowds you mentioned, all of those examples appear to be good circumstances in which the virus can be transmited to a variety of people. The good news here it seems to me is what were learning about outdoor transmission and sunlight and what the risks are if youre, say, outside in a park and people are jogging past and jog closer than six feet, which happens and it does seem obviously people should stay far away but it seems in general, like being outside and keeping your distance from people is pretty safe all things considered. I think so. I mean, the risk is not zero, certainly. Any time youre exposed to another persons respiratory droplets, there is a measurable risk. What we learned about sunlight as well as the other variables in the outdoor environments, the wind, humidity, temperature, that sort of thing, all of those can affect the amount of virus that you were exposed to and if youre not exposed to enoughini youre likely to not be infected. This gets to the surface of this question and i know some people like obviously in workplaces like if we go back to the call center, those surfaces are close to each other. People are maybe sneezing on a keyboard and another person is using it. Packages, mail, things like that, again, the risk is not zero, i dont want to suggest that to anyone but that seems further along the spectrum of low risk if were sort of categorizing them. Is that fair . I think thats very fair. It really a matter of probability. You have to think what are the odds that your package handler is infected with coronavirus. They touch it. Theyre not touching their hands all over the entire package. Theyre touching one part of it. What are the odds youre going to touch that exact same spot, get enough virus on to your hands to establish an infection then touch your nose in an amount of time that virus is still going ton infectious. Those odds are fairly good in terms of you not getting infected. I think that touching packages, touching groceries, things like that are relatively low risk when coupled with good hand l hygiene. I think that part of it, the outdoor stuff, package stuff is sort of like anxiety reducing but when you try to think about like how a business that has a huge bullpen that looks like that one in the call center is going to safely bring everyone back, that is a real head scratcher. Dr. Angela, thank you for sharing your expertise with us tonight. Appreciate it. My pleasure. Still ahead, the president ial election rolls on amidst the pandemic and the latest swing state polling has the Trump Campaign under water. New numbers on the election pandemic ahead. S on the electio pandemic ahead saturdays happen. Pain happens. Aleve it. Aleve is proven stronger and longer on pain than tylenol. When pain happens, aleve it. All day strong. A lot of folks ask me why their dishwasher doesnt get everything clean. I tell them, it may be your detergent. 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Weve been trying to take time each week during this pandemic to commit rate people we lost during this illness. It an overwhelming amount of grief for the nation and loved ones, of course, of those who died but here are some of those people and a few of their stories next. Skylar herbert was five years old. You might have heard about her. The daughter of a Detroit Police officer and firefighter. Shes believed to be the youngest person in michigan to die from coronavirus. Skylar loved to dance and go to kin kindergarten. Her family said she was bubbly and could take over a room. Phillip thomas was 48 when he passed late last month. He was a resident of chicago and worked at walmart for nearly a decade. He and his coworkers were like a family and she wants people to know hes not a statistic or number, he was a great man. Annie grant, she worked at a tyson foods poultry plant in georgia for nearly 15 years to provide a future for her children. One of her sons said his mother felt pressure to keep working after she fell ill. He watched his mother take her last breath on his phone. She was 55. Sammy hooker was 89 when she past the last week in illinois. She was a dedicate the mother, grandmother and great grandmother. She was married for 70 years. Her family described her as smart, sweet and sassy. She volunteered for many years as a hospice caregiver what she described as the most fulfilling work of her life. Sammy hooker was the grandmother of amy hooker who is a talented producer here at all in. She was 71 years old and immigrated to the u. S. From the Dominican Republic and became a proud american citizen, mother of two and grandmother of six. She loved to cook. Her generosity was to friends and neighbors delivering to a week before she went to the hospital. Her niece Tonya Mcfarland is our technical production manager. Donald reid harring was the other brother of senator elizabeth warren. She described him as charming, funny and a natural leader. He was a career officer that flew combat missions in vietnam. He died earlier this week at the age of 86. Oh, wow. I never saw this. Yeah. Did you see this typed up . I bet you daddy did this. The herring Production Company announces the herring baby boy model number one. Don herring designer and chief engineer. Production manager. Production manager hold my pouch. Trust us. Us kids are ready to take things into our own hands. Dont think so . Hold my pouch. 9. 95 . No way. . 9. 95 . Thats impossible. Hi, im jonathan, a manager here at Colonial PennLife Insurance company, to tell you it is possible. If youre age 50 to 85, you can get Life Insurance with options starting at just 9. 95 a month. Okay, jonathan, im listening. Tell me more. Just 9. 95 a month for Colonial Penns number one most popular whole Life Insurance plan. There are no Health Questions to answer and there are no medical exams to take. Your acceptance is guaranteed. Guaranteed acceptance . I like guarantees. Keep going. And with this plan, your rate is locked in for your lifetime, so it will never go up. Sounds good to me, but at my age, i need the security of knowing it wont get cancelled as i get older. This is Lifetime Coverage as long as you pay your premiums. It can never be cancelled, call now for free information. Youll also get this free beneficiary planner. Use this valuable guide to record your Important Information and give helpful direction about your final wishes to your loved ones. And its yours free. Its our way of saying thank you just for calling. So call now. Confident financial plans, calming financial plans, complete financial plans. Theyre all possible with a cfp® professional. Find yours at letsmakeaplan. Org. This morning Rona Romney Mcdaniel head of the Republican National committee tweeted out a funny and strange reelection message. Quote, we have a decision tooz who will restore our economy after this pandemic. Donald trump has already done it once and hes definitely the right person to do it again. He didnt restore the economy. He inherited a recovery barack obama had started. But its also a really strange reelection message. Like what happened under his watch, right . For a guy who is going to run on the slogan keep America Great, and right now theres tens of thousands of americans who have lost their lives and nearly a million who have had the disease when this is all over and trump has mismanaged all of this, theres more than 26 million americans who filed for unemployment over the last five weeks. Congressional Budget Office now estimating the Gross Domestic Product will plunge by nearly 40 the second quarter. So its really hard to argue youre going to keep America Great under those circumstances and recent polling reflects that. Nbc wall street journal poll shows biden with a 7point lead over trump in a national headtohead matchup. Perhaps the most worrisome number comes from a new fox poll which shows trump losing to biden in florida, michigan and pennsylvania while joe biden has not particularly been present in the national conversation, which may not be a bad strategy, to be honest. Joining me now to talk more about this, host of the majority report podcast. Sam, ive seen a lot of where is joe biden stuff. Part of this is its hard to break through on anything right now. The virus is so, you know, overwhelming in terms of our News Coverage and everyones. It also strikes me that this election was always going to be a referendum on donald trump. All reelections are sort of referendums on the incumbent but never has that been more the case than right now during this pandemic. What do you think . Yeah, i mean i think that is the case more than likely. I think the Trump Campaign was always going to attempt to rather than sell themselves, make it about their opponent regardless of who it was going to be. And, you know, for now that snapshot that weve taken. We really have no idea what the campaign is going to look like three months from now, four months from now. You know, you could argue that joe biden is following a strategy that is a choice or you could argue that joe biden is following a strategy because its really the only one that he has at this point. I think thats probably right. I think its both a choice and the one they have right now. The thing that i keep thinking about this election, and again i completely agree with you. I have no idea what the Campaign Looks like in three months, what the country looks like. Right. What the world looks like. What anything looks like, right . But one thing that i now feel laser focused on is if youre joe biden and the democratic party, there are now two tasks ahead of you, one after the other, both of them hard. Defeating trump and then dealing with a country that is in wreckage. And its the second time in 12 years youre going to have to do that. You better get ready for both of those things. Look, i think there is a theres an internal logic to the idea of were going to let donald trump do damage to himself and stand out of the way. But theres a risk associated with that too, because were going to need a plan going forward. And its unclear that joe biden is putting out a sense that he has a plan. I mean, look, its tough to break through, no doubt about it. But andrew cuomo is out there doing this every day. You know, there are options for biden to go out and do it. Now, yes, it involves a certain amount of risk because you are creating theoretically a target. But its not like theyre doing absolutely nothing. Someone released that hes meeting with Larry Summers. I dont know who thats supposed to help in this situation. But joe biden, you know, to the extent that he needs to do anything, he needs to shore up his base on some level and, you know, i doubt it was the Biden Campaign that released the fact that theyre bheemeeting with l summers. I hope not. I dont know what the value is except to alien nate people who remember Larry Summers from the last goround. The summers news to me was upsetting and disconcerting less on the politics of it. Moving that aside, on that second question. That to me is like again, two tasks in front of biden and the democratic party. Beat trump and then get governing against a Republican Opposition that will be implaquable and vicious, as they were 12 years ago. And the same ideological turnabout, wheres the money coming from . And summers got that wrong the last time. Like if theres anything that has to happen here, its the lessons from the very difficult period of the first few years of barack obama and joe bidens administration, which was very hard to be learned and applied this time around. Right. And, you know, i take your point in terms of the politics of it. To the extent there are politics of it, its the progressive wing of the party that seems to have the longest memory when it comes to Larry Summers. And so, yes, i worry about it from a policy perspective, i worry about it from a political perspective. I mean, look, the democrats right now are playing sort of four corners, right . Theyre just basically holding the ball, staying out of the way and trying to run out the clock. Its a strategy, but its a risky one because to a certain extent someone has to step up and create a foil for donald trump, in part for political reasons but also from a policy standpoint. This isnt going to land. This whole crisis is not going to land on its own. Somebody needs to step up and create some pressure, at the very least from a policy perspective. And i think and i think the fights the democrats and congress have picked, some have been very good, some of them they have avoided, some of them they have lost. But youre going to have to have more political fights. And i understand the urgency of speed and consensus and unanimous consenting. I really get that. Theres a million calculations going on. But as this goes further and as the Campaign Takes shape, like clear distinctions and fights about what the future is are going to be absolutely essential in terms of determining this campaign. Sam seder with a very fetching quarantine beard. That is all in for this evening. The Rachel Maddow show starts right now. Good evening, rachel. No beard for you, chris. I cant grow a beard, rachel. And if i could, id probably grow a quarantine beard but i cant. So here i am. We all know that the problem is if you grew a quarantine beard it would just go straight out from your face and become a barrier between you interacting with other humans. I know how you are grizzly. Thats exactly right. Thanks, my friend. Have a great weekend. Youre doing amazing, would, ive got to say, ive been watching and its incredible. Thank you, my friend