Election. Tonight my interview with a former employee who disagrees. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. During the president ial campaign, paul ryan described comments by donald trump as racist and decried trumps muslim ban as unamerican. He nominated him and ryan put his misgivings behind. I talk with donald trump virtually every single day. I spoke with mike pence this morning. Were on the same page, were working hand in glove and were going to make sure this is a very successful administration. Promising a new dawn. That wasnt the only sign republicans were falling in line. This is the scene before he was nominated today. Those are make America Great again hats on every chair. House majority whip Steve Scalise was so excited about his new swag that he proudly waited around for the cameras. While House Republicans appear organized, unified to carry out the agenda of the man who successfully executed a takeover of their party or perhaps their own agenda preexisting him, theres one big problem, the man whose agenda they are going to be working hand in glove with, a man with exactly zero sperps in government for first time in the history of the republic appears to be botching the job of building the team a president needs to actually run the country. After he unceremoniously dumped Chris Christie as the head of his Transition Team, he turned to mike pence where pence or someone on his team was required by law to sign a document to work with the white house on the transition and no one signed the document until late today. Thats four days of working with the white house wasted and there are only 73 days to set up the new government. A process that involves, among many other tasks, the monumental job of vetting and hiring and getting cleared 4,000 political appointees. And thats far from the most worrying news, mike rogers who led the House Intelligence Committee and was handling Security Matters for the Transition Team was removed today in what a source close to rogers said was the stalinesque purge of people close to Chris Christie. Another report says rogers was ousted because in 2014 his committee released a report on benghazi that did not fit with the rightwing narrative about the events on that night. The Weekly Standard reporting that cia officers octobered to the reports claim that no cia officer on the ground in benghazi was told to stand down from a rescue attempt. A story that you encounter in conservative media quite often. The New York Times reports that trump had removed a second Senior Defense and senior Foreign Policy official from his Transition Team, matthew friedman. Then theres Elliott Cohen who encouraged those to join the trump administration. But the times report mr. Cohen suggested the caveat that many Foreign Policy hands would enlist only if there were credible people leading National Security agencies and departments. He said he received a vituperative email in response. After exchange with trump Transition Team changed my recommendation. Stay away. Theyre angry, arrogant screaming, you lo. Will be ugly. There were reports the Transition Team was struggling to find qualified people to take posts in the trump administration. Another troubling sign the state and Defense Department say they have not yet even been contacted by the trump Transition Team. As for the secretary of state job, the trump camp has suggested it is down to either Rudy Giuliani whose astounding conflicts of interest well detail shortly or john bolton whose extreme hawkishes is so out of step with the trump administration, many are bewildered hes even in the conversation. Ben carson had been floated as possible secretary of health and human services. Obviously, the man is a neurosurgeon, celebrated, wide seen as one of the best in the business. And that job would likely entail rolling back obamacare. He took himself out of the running saying despite seeking the presidency, carson does not believe he is qualified for the job. Doesnt know how to run a federal agency. Trump this morning received his first president s Daily Briefing at trump tower. In an unprecedented move Trumps Campaign has asked that jared kushner, trumps soninlaw, also have clearance to attend those meetings. Robert, your reporting all along suggested that kushner is probably the most important person in trumps circle. You cant just give security clearance to anyone you want because you like them. I mean, theres a kind of need to know basis here, right . Theres a power matrix thats developing around the president elect. It includes kushner who is working closely with steve bannon, the chief strategist. Kushner also gets along with reince priebus, the incoming chief of staff. These are the people who are in the president elects ear, highly influential. Kushner was on the plane with trump throughout the campaign. Is your reporting suggests that kushner would actually join the administration . Because of the laws around bobby kennedy, its unlikely that he may get a formal role. But what were looking at based on nbcs reporting and my own conversations with those close to the trump transition is that curber er kushner could get a security clearance but may not yet have a title. Theres antinepotism laws that would appear to ban family members from getting federal jobs and that includes in the white house where theres a greater degree of latitude and less Civil Service protection. But include the white house. What youre saying could happen is even though the law bars him from working formally in the white house, he could still get security clearance and essentially be an unpaid adviser. Theres an important distinction here. Some of the trump children are looking to run the Trump Organization to have some separation from the presidcy. But Jerod Kushner, though hes in real estate, has become a senior political adviser to the president elect. It would be almost unfathomable to perceive how trump would work without kushner by his side based on the campaign. I want to make sure its clear what kind of situation we may be getting into. The soninlaw of the president elect would be sitting in on the president ial Daily Briefing and then also be married to a woman who is part of running the president elects business enterprise, right . One important job will likely be white House Counsel to look at all these entanglements. What else did your reporting suggest about the level of preparation . I know firsthand ive talked to people, i know people that worked on president ial transitions that start even before the election happens. Huge amounts of work. No one can possibly get their hands around the scope of it until theyre confronted with it. Are these folks ready . Theres a sea change happening within the transition. Theres been a coup of sorts. A lot of the christie people are being purged. Theyre seen as just not the right fit. Its the Jeff Sessions people that really work working with kushner and bannon. The hardline conservative populist right thats coming into this white house, though mike pence, the Vice President elect is atop the transition, sessions, kushner, bannon, trump himself who are working to try to fill this white house. Robert costa, joining me now Charlie Pierce and april ryan, author of the new book at mamas knee. Charlie, you wrote about this today. Sam stein reporting that the about the sort of freeze that set in where department of energy, department of transition, Justice Department all still waiting to hear. Were not talking about anything ideological here. Were talking about the most basic nuts and bolts, blocking and tackling of the monumental Organizational Task that is now being undertaken. It does not appear to be even being done at this moment. No. We have drifted into what can be fairly called terra incoherent. I have no idea who is running things. Robert costa just explained it probably as lucidly as anybody in the business can and i still dont know what is going on. I dont know who is running things. Mike rogers and Elliott Cohen running around like Kevin Mccarthy in invasion of the body snatchers. You have ben carson taking himself out of the thing. You have Rudy Giuliani who apparently has his pick of any federal office he wants and lo and behold today we learn that there actually were people loyal to Chris Christie who arent testifying against him. April, youveovered the white house for some time. Yes. Can you try to i mean, i think that its very hard to communicate just how complex, what a buzz saw it is to walk into when you are told you are now taking over the most powerful office in the world. Heres what you need to do. Well, bottom line, what he needs to do is quicken the pace and it looks like hes going to walk into the oval office and he may not have all of his posts, all of those 4,000 posts filled. Thats not anything surprising. That has happened before in the past, you know, it continues to build. The appointments happen, but his key people need to be in place very soon. But what i will tell you is in going back to the Jerod Kushner and the children issue, hes floating that idea he really wants president elect we still have to get our minds around that president elect donald trump wants his children to have security clearance. You think about giving a security clearance, they would have to be named advisers. And they cant just be named advisers for Something Like the a aca or something else. Theyd have to be named to specific issues dealing with the security clearance. Lets say they want to be advisers for israel, they have to get a clearance for that. They cant just willynilly be an adviser. Thats one piece to this complicated puzzle right now. Charlie, one of the things that i think has gotten lost with everyone singing off the same hymnal is that cohen said that people think the good jobs are lollipops for good girls and boys. We love make America Great again, we love donald trump. Something the trump people have not forgotten who they felt was insufficiently loyal to them. If theres one thing we know about donald trump, its how much he values retribution, grievance and revenge. I think hes made his list and checked it twice already. What genuinely makes me uneasy with the way things are going are not is not really that hes going to do everything he said he was going to do. Its that he has no idea of this job. Plus the people who have been up close and realized that he has no idea how to do this job are leaking like sieves. Let me be clear here about no idea of this job. Lets assume that donald trump was the most brilliant, gifted individual in human history. Lets assume that you view him as that if youre watching this. Even if that were the case, in the countrys history, no one has ever been ected with less experience. The job itself is very hard. He has no experience. No. And every president learns on the job because nobodys really prepared thats right. For the kind of decisions that cross your desk every day. No ones prepared for that. No Vice President who has ascended to the presidency was truly ready for that. Certainly no Vice President who assumed the presidency in extremis like harry truman has been ready for that. But this guy doesnt seem to be ready for a career in government. April . Chris, thats a very good point. And just, was it yesterday, president obama said youre continuing to learn. Theres always a learning curve, but youre continuing to learn. I talked to someone who is being vetted for a counselors position in this new administration, and they said to me, you know, im thicking about not taking it. I said why . They said my issue is not the position itself but to be able to talk directly to the president who is right now president elect, to be able to talk to President Trump and then someone else said to me, he said, that may not be a wise decision because hell need a white house whisperer to help him understand the inner workings. And that within is a big problem right there. Its funny in this sort of perverse way. People said they would bring change to washington, theyll drain the swamp in this case, theres lobbyists crawling all over this. Ive seen this up close, ive seen how the folks who know how things work become very important very quickly. Oh, no question. And the other the obverse of that, which goes back to my late mentor george reed, somebody in the white house has got to be there to tell the president hes wrong. Right. Right now we dont have anybody in this administration that i can see who can tell the president anything. The president elect, i mean. Charlie pierce and april ryan, appreciate it both. Stick around because Rachel Maddow is here to talk about more potential conflicts of interest and his phone call with putin. Ohio senator Sherrod Brown is leading the charge. Coaching means making tough choices. Jim youre in but when you have high Blood Pressure and need Cold Medicine that works fast, the choice is simple. Coricidin hbp is the only brand that gives powerful cold symptom relief without raising your Blood Pressure. Coricidin hbp. At the Marine Mammal center, the environment is everything. We want to do our very best for each and every animal, and we want to operate a sustainable facility. And pg e has been a partner helping us to achieve that. Weve helped the Marine Mammal center go solar, install electric vehicle charging stations, and become more energy efficient. Pg e has allowed us to be the most Sustainable Organization we can be. Any time you help a customer, its a really good feeling. Its especially so when its a customer thats doing such good and important work for the environment. Together, were building a better california. I do believe separate and apart from any particular election or movement, that we are going to have to guard against a rise in a crude sort of nationalism or ethnic identity or tribalism that is built around an us and a them. You can see barack obama, the president , thinking hard about what he wanted to say there. He warned against crude nationalism but avoided criticizing his successor. Without mentioning his name he sought to assure World Leaders that the Nato Alliance will remain vital despite whatever the president elect said on the campaign trail. The strong nato relationship between the United States and greece is of the utmost importance. It is something that provides significant continuity even as we see a transition of governments in the United States. Despite the president s assurances, the fact remains donald trump is heading into the white house with a Foreign Policy thats based on his rhetoric and pretty much anybodys guess. Since the election, russian president Vladimir Putin called and spoke with president elect trump on a range of issues. That conversation reportedly happened before trump or anyone from his team spoke to the state department or the pentagon. Theres general Michael Flynn whose name has been bandied about for National Security adviser, even defense secretary, though that may be difficult. The daily caller said he was lobbied for ties to the turkish government. Rudy giuliani who is reportedly being considered for secretary of state allegedly took money from qatar, venezuela and iranian exiles during his consultant work which would present conflicts of interests that would make the Clinton Foundation look trifling. Joining me is Rachel Maddow. Putting the trifling back in trifling. Whats amazing is how much particularly down the stretch they hit this line of selling out to foreign interests, selling out to foreign interests, selling out to foreign interests, thats what the Clinton Campaign is doing, now we hear it might be Rudy Giuliani. Or Michael Flynn. So turkey had this coup, what appeared to be a coup because the president of turkey called it a gift from god when it happened. Then announced hes building 174 new prisons to lock up tens of thousands. Everyone from professors to baklava sellers to the military, everybody. And then they decided afterwards, they were going to blame it on this turk irk cleis who is a resident of the United States. Telling them that we must hand him over. On election day Michael Flynn wrote an oped in the hill saying we ought to hand that guy over. Screw our extradition processes, screw our independent judicial review. Hand that guy over. It was like, on election day . Youre the top military intelligence adviser to one of the top candidates in this election and your advice was to do something that turkey wants us to do. Michael flynn runs a consulting group, they have one foreign client who is turkey. Hes being paid by the government of turkey. And donald trump had that guy, whose firm is being paid by turkey, sit in on the president ial daily brief. That gets to the sort of broader point which is, look, theres a lot of things about american Foreign Policy at any moment that i disagree with, i dont think are great. But when you are talking about the most powerful nation on earth, theres a kind of continuity, stability that is just necessary, a practical matter about how all these different players ar angling. No one knows whats in the black box right no it could be bolton who said we should bomb iran or maybe it wont be bolton. Flynn who apparently who is being paid by the turkish government. What does it mean to have every other actor in the world looking at this wondering whats in the black box . And to have the russian government come out a day after the election and say, by the way, we were in touch with the Trump Campaign throughout the election while u. S. Intelligence agencies say russia was trying to intervene in the election to hurt hillary clinton. What weve got here is not, you know, appearances of conflict of interest. What we dont have here is allegations of shady ties. We have admitted, reported, undisputed really inappropriate foreign ties at the highest level of the Trump Campaign and now the trump transition. The question is whether or not i think honestly whether or not the political system outside the Trump Campaign, including the press, can recognize that as abnormal. Its really abnormal. Its really shocking. There isnt an immediate legal correction for it. But its not something thats ever happened before by a mile. This extends across the spectrum, right . Conflicts are the sort of theme of the week in the last week. Jared kushner, the soninlaw, may be getting security clearance to sit in. And the other person that trump asked to sit in. Maybe he and ivanka go out and talk about what Trump Organizations, all of this again off the map, off the map. Weve never been in this territory before. And were a week in and weve never been in this territory before. One of the things who people who have been through this, people take a very like 50,000foot view of this. And ive been thinking about a lot recently. That transitions are a vulnerable time for us in terms of National Security. The Trump Campaign was surprised to learn it, but you really do lose the entire west wing staff and bring in all new people. There isnt a carryover staff that makes sure things go well. Its handing off the baton and one of the runners stops. To see russia today massively step up its Bombing Campaign in aleppo. Whatever you think about aleppo, whatever you think about the Syrian Civil War and our involvement, thats something thats been a real point of contention between the United States and the russian government around syria. And today they just put the pedal to the metal thinking that boy, are we not something we need to worry about. Thats unsettling. This point about ill tell personal stories, my wife reported for the office for the first day of the presidency in Barack Obamas white house. And literally, how do we get the phones to work . People really its hard to get in your head, these are all just human beings starting a new job. And the seamless transition and in running the country and terms of vulnerability, this is where things are very this is where, particularly from the standpoint of International Actors who want to test the United States or find out through incursions of whatever kind, how the president will respond, that is whats particularly when those interests are the kinds of people who have much longer horizons than we have in our system. Putin has been in office since right . Thats a great point. Forever. As is erdogan. In turkey and the Chinese Communist party in its various iterations in china. So you look at competing powers in the world, especially ones who see us as real rivals, see us in a zero sum fight who see themselves as being in a zero sum fight, for spheres of influence with other countries both economically and militarily. And those countries that dont turn over their leadership roles as rapidly as we do, theyre perfectly positioned and already acting to capitalize on what were having in this strange moment of disorganization. Shock electorally in the country, but on the trump side real disorganization, what appears to be a total lack of capacity to pick up and run with what the Obama Administration was trying to leave them. Quickly, then ill let you prepare for the show that you have to do. Interesting debate among nevertrumpers about the inner circle and whether they should go into the administration or not. And people who had no position one way or the other in the campaign. People who would be professionals. You know, people who would be on the, you know, sort of Junior Lawyer side of things. I think its a very, very hard decision. I think that there is a strong civic minded case to be made that you go work for your country. Your country needs you literally. And get good people in there. And theres this sort of like character driven part of it that if nothing else, if you got the credentials, get in there so youre in a position to resign and make a big stink. If and when something happens. If and when something happens. On the other hand, maybe dont enable this stuff. I dont envy anybody who is making this decision. I think its a hard call either way. Civic minded folks will have a hard time making this decision. Rachel maddow, so good to have you here. Appreciate it. See you in a bit. Just ahead democrats stage their first real fight calling for the removal of steve bannon as white house strategist. Senator Sherrod Brown is here to talk about it. The peculiar dynamic of a businessman with a brand name becoming president of the United States is already becoming clear. On the monday after the sunday broadcast of sks trump family interview, ivankas company pointed out the bracelet she was wearing in the interview is available for purchase. Following criticism, the Company Might be trying to make money off of a future first daughters interview, abigail klem said, the style alert distributed to fashion journalist after the 60 minutes interview was sent by a well intentioned marketing employee of one of our companies who was following customer protocol and who, like many of us, is still making adjustments post leengz. Yes, were all adjusting to the new reality because the spectrum of conflicts created by this situation has never been encountered in the nations history. Every day there will be opportunities for Trump Organization to profit from the fact that the person who is named on the business is also the leader of the free world. But such potential conflicts of interest arent the trump teams only problem. Today the daily beast reports a Campaign Watchdog group has made a complaint to the federal Election Commission claiming a trump superpac illegally paid a company of steve bannon so that the Trump Campaign itself could avoid paying bannon a salary. We do not have an official response on this matter from trump folks. We can expect that the complaint filed in october will be met with a legal defense. Ahead, the bigger problem the president elect is facing with steve bannon at his side. Today Senate Democrats united in their first fight with president elect donald trump over his appointment of steve bannon as a senior counselor and chief white house strategist. President elect trump will forever poison the well with congress and the American People by appointing figures like steve bannon whose stock in trade is hate and violence. Its easy to look at the tv camera and tell people to stop the hate, but when you say that and look at the tv camera and then in the next moment the action you take is to appoint steve bannon, then youre sending a very different and stronger message in the opposite direction. Democrats called on trump to rescind the bannon appointment as the only way for trump to make a clear break from the more well, divisive aspects of the Trump Campaign and show he was serious about bringing the nation together. It is not normal for the kkk, ku klux klan, to celebrate the election of a president. If trump is serious about seeking unity, the first thing he should do is rescind his appointment of steve bannon. It will be impossible to take trumps efforts for the nation seriously. For elected republicans on bannon, it was a different story. Look, i would just simply say that the president is going to be judged on his results. In is a person who helped him win an incredible victory, the president will be judged on the results of this administration. It may turn out to be the case there is no political traction for democrats in fighting steve bannon, but it is also true they see it as absolutely crucial as both substantively and morally correct. Our next guest has joined that fight. Senator Sherrod Brown said president elect trump told us he wants to be a president for all americans and he cannot do that while empowering bigotry. Joining me now senator Sherrod Brown of ohio. Look, donald trump won this election and, you know, this is not a senateconfirmed position. They get to dance with the ones that brung them. Of course he can appoint whomever he wants to those kinds of positions, but that was either his first im not sure his first or second appointment hes made of any consequence. Hes said earlier, he looked in the camera during 60 minutes and said stop, stop the hate, stop how far he said that. Then he appoints a guy to a number one or number two position. Hes kind of the karl rove whispering in the ear of the most powerful person on earth. And hes clearly a racist, hes clearly a misogynist, hes antisemitic. And its a moral question to me. I dont know if this is good politics or bad politics to criticize him, but youve got to call out, just like people in communities when people say racist things and feel its okay now to be a sexist or a racist or a misogynist or a bigot, individuals have to call them out. I have to call them out when i see it. You have to call out this president when he engages, when he hires somebody that makes people even more uncomfortable. Its not a difference in policy. People in this country, the fear levels are higher than i could ever remember. I remember reagans election, i was pretty devastated. But you didnt have the fear like this that so many people of color and so many disabled people and gay people and people who arent christians have. And this is just making it worse. And trump needs to try to heal. And you dont do things like this to heal. Yeah, i mean, it strikes me, right, from the trump perspective, from the political calculation here is that whatever and my understanding is your case against bannon here is the kinds of things breitbart has run, fly the Confederate Flag proudly just a few weeks after the massacre in charleston. The really nasty things that have been written about women and calling Gabby Giffords the human shield for the gun control movement, things like that. The Trump Campaign, though, donald trump said a lot of terrible things and he got elected president. It does seem like theyre taking the lesson of this election to heart in that respect. Theres a great difference of running for president and being president. I think that deer in the headlights look in president elects face when he was going in and out of meeting with our president said that, that he does see its different now, but he doesnt seem to think its different enough. Im incredulous that he would bring a guy like that. The president s job is to bring people together, to heal people. I know my job after an election, i listened to republicans, i work with republicans, i find ways. But you dont do this kind of thing senator, but look, i hear you where youre coming from substantively, but this is them sending a signal about how they feel they got there, what they won on and also communicating to everyone on capitol hill, yourself, colleagues on both sides of the aisle, this is who we are and this is who well be as an at strags. Thats why we fight back. On Election Night david duke, the imperial wizard of the kkk said this is one of the best nights of my life. When you have people saying that about you, you have to do something to heal the country. Thats why we fight back. I asked people to come to Sherrod Brown. Com, sign our petition to fire bannon. Its essential that we build a Grassroots Movement and we say to trump to the president elect, stop, you cant go over this line again. Youve got to work to heal and not to continue to fan the flames of racist and xenophobic and antisemitic talk, period. The raw numbers of the vote total in ohio would indicate that there are tens of thousands, probably more than that, actually, probably north of hundreds of thousands of Sherrod Brown donald trump voters in the state of ohio. What is your message to them . Is there a senator . Them as constituents of yours in the next period . My message, ways in trumpbull county in the two times i ran and trump won that county. Its about 85 white working class, a lot of union members, a lot of nonunion working workers. They know im on their side on the auto rescue. They know im on their side on trade. I believe theyre offended by hiring steve bannon, too. Thats why i say come to Sherrod Brown. Com and sign this petition. Because they have a decency to them. They just thought hill l hillart going to stand up for them. I will. They want to see us work together. Ill work with trump on getting out of tpp. Ive already told the head of his transition on trade, count on me on renegotiating nafta and count on me on tpp db pulling out of tpp and strad enforcement. But dont count on me when you call on racist and bigoted type behavior and tax cuts for the rich and going after Social Security and medicare. Those voters in trumpbull county, theyre no longer donald trump voters within days. Count on that. That is the open question of the political terrain in which weve now driven into, senator Sherrod Brown, a pleasure. Did fake news on facebook have anything to do with Donald Trumps improbable election. Mark zuckerberg says absolutely not. Ill talk to one of his former facebook employees who disagrees. It is getting under the president elects skin. Thing 1, thing 2 starts right after this break. [burke] hot dog. Seen it. Covered it. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum g new cars. Youre smart. You already knew that. But its also great for finding the perfect used car. Youll see what a fair price is, and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. Now youre even smarter. This is truecar. Same nose. Same toughness. And since hes had moderate alzheimers disease, the same never quit attitude. Thats why i asked his doctor about onceaday namzaric. avo namzaric is approved for moderate to severe alzheimers disease in patients who are taking donepezil. It may improve cognition and overall function, and may slow the worsening of symptoms for a while. Namzaric does not change the underlying disease progression. Dont take if allergic to memantine, donepezil, piperidine or any of the ingredients in namzaric. Tell the doctor about any conditions including heart, lung, bladder, kidney or liver problems, seizures, stomach ulcers, or procedures with anesthesia. Serious side effects may occur, including muscle problems if given anesthesia; slow heartbeat, fainting, more stomach acid which may lead to ulcers and bleeding; nausea, vomiting, difficulty urinating, seizures, and worsening of lung problems. Most common side effects are headache, diarrhea, dizziness loss of appetite, and bruising. man dad and i shared a lot of moments. Now were making the most of each one. avo ask about namzaric today. Thing 1 tonight, president elect trump is now losing the popular vote by over a million votes according to the cook political report, Hillary Clintons popular vote lead stands at 1,001,616 votes and millions of ballots are still being counted. By some estimates her lead could grow to more than 2 million. Thats far greater than nixons lead in 68 and jfks narrow lead in 1960. So no wonder someone is feeling insecure about the popular vote margins. President elect trump tweeting, if the election were based on total popular vote i would have campaigned in new york, florida and california and won even bigger and more easily. The Electoral College is actually genius in that it brings all states including the small one, into play. Its not a terrible point. Its true. Things probably would be different if it was run differently. How he used to feel about the Electoral College versus popular vote is thing 2. stranger good mornin store p. A. attention shoppers, theres a lost couple in the mens department. vo theres a great big unkhaki world out there. Explore it in a subaru crosstrek. Love. Its what makes a subaru, a subaru. He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. The loser won. Our country is now in serious unprecedented trouble like never before. The Electoral College is a disaster for democracy. Those are all quotes from one donald j. Trump, some of which have been deleted but all of which appeared on his twitter feed late on Election Night after the network called the election for barack obama even though mitt romney was still leading by a couple hundred thousand votes with twothirds of the votes counted. He went on to lose the popular vote by nearly 5 million votes. But while romney was still slightly ahead, donald trump declared the Electoral College a disaster for democracy. Four years later after he himself won the Electoral College he called it genius, though given that trump also maintains he would have won bigger and more easily without the Electoral College if the election was decided on the popular vote alone and hed campaigned to win that instead. Given that sentiment, surely president elect trump will throw his wholehearted support behind senator barbara boxers new bill to abolish the Electoral College in favor of the popular vote. inner monologue all right, be cool. You got the amazing new iphone 7 on the house by switching to at t. What . . Aand you got unlimited data because you have directv . . Okay, just a few more steps. Door its cool get the iphone 7 on us and unlimited data when you switch to at t and have directv. Did you hear Denzel Washington endorse donald trump . The shocking news monday especially for Denzel Washington. Thats because the fake news story was shared over 22,000 times on facebook by a slew of fraudulent websites posing as news organization. The publicist for Denzel Washington confirmed to bbc today the story is 100 complete fabricati fabrication. Were not talking about fringe websites distorting information. Were talking about actual fake websites made to look like news outlets posting completely fabricated stories. Take for instance this story that made it way around facebook days before the election. Fbi agent suspected in hillary email leaks found dead in apparent murdersuicide. It was posted on a fake site called the Denver Guardian which has also posted fake stories that prek wsident clinton was offered a complete pardon. If you click on it every click takes you to an error page. Others are facing their role in spreading this disinformation. After the break ill be joined by a former facebook employee who says the problem may be bigger than Mark Zuckerberg wants to admit. 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Its go time. Come on. Lets go, lets go, lets go. Woooo hoooo yeah i feel like i went to bed an hour ago. Ill make the cocoa. Get a great offer on the car of your grownup dreams at the mercedesbenz winter event. Its the look on their faces that make it all worthwhile. Thank you santa now lease the 2017 c300 for 389 a month at your local mercedesbenz dealer. Weve got strange breaking news. The president elect of the United States donald trump going to eat a steak here in manhattan. You can see him entering the room there. The reason this is news, its not news that he went to do it. The news is that he broke the socalled protect pool. Theres a pool in place for the president of the United States and also the president elect. And the institution of it is they cover the most powerful person in the world, in this case the second most powerful person in the world or about to be. We know when the president elect first took a trip to the white house, he broke that tradition. And here he is again escaping the protective pool. At one level you can understand why you want to get a steak without the press around. But the protective pool is there for a reason. Its a means by which the American Public and the media have their eyes essentially on the leader of the free world at all times more or less when he could be doing anything in his official business. It seems like theyre making an early departure from that tradition and maybe the first of many. Facebook, the largest social Media Network in the world has been criticized for an influx of fake political news. The story that pope francis endorses donald trump made the rounds despite being false. Mark zuckerberg said it was a pretty crazy idea that facebook helped donald trump win. Thats gotten flashback from renegade facebook employees who formed a task force to battle fake news. Whats crazy is for zuckerberg to come out and dismiss it like that when he knows and those of us at the company know that fake news ran wild on our platform during the entire season. Yesterday facebook declared a policy that fake news sites arent allowed on its Advertising Network saying our team will closely vet all prospective publishers to ensure compliance. Zuckerberg wrote over the weekend, i believe we must be extremely cautious about becoming arbiters of truth ourselves. Joining me now, former facebook employee Antonio Garcia martinez, facebooks first product manager for ad targeting. Also author of the book chaos monkeys, obscene fortune and random failure in silicon valley. You guys saw this developing. What did it look from the inside . What were the concerns as you watched this new kind of genre of viral totally fabricated stories go wild through the facebook platform . Well, you know, in 2012, the fake news thing wasnt as big a factor. But the reality that facebook could actually throw an election has been well known for years. We used to joke internally, and of course it was only a joke, but if facebook, for example, only showed those little reminders to vote that you see inside facebook, if it only showed it to a certain subset of counties and certain swing states, it could totally throw the election, right . This is a well known thing that facebook has been aware of for years. Weird that zuckerberg is acting surprised in 2016 that it could possibly have influenced the election. 44 of people get their news from facebook. I cant tell you how many stories ive heard that people talk about the centrality of this platform. Its the biggest most Important Media platform in the world right now and its exercising essentially zero standards over its content. Yeah, look, heres the real hypocrisy of it. Facebook has hundreds of sales people with a huge office in washington, d. C. And they are literally going to tell political advertisers, well win you an election and then zuck turns around and says, no, theres no possibly way that facebook can influence the election. Its really disingenuous of him to claim this and on the face of it really false. I understand his desire to not create an editorial structure. If you want my prediction, theyll get sucked into doing just that because of this issue. But he doesnt want to do that. But it does seem like theres low hanging fruit here. Theres a genre, its essentially a kind of spam or a nigerian email scam. Its one of those things that gets thrown off in the maelstrom of the internet where facebook has the smarts to stamp this out. The Immediate Reaction after zuck says hey only 1 of content is fake. Well, then why didnt you just delete it . If you know what it is. Why didnt you just get rid of it . For years google and facebook have hidden behind the argument of we just use math. We dont decide what we show you. Its just math. We optimize for engagement. We show you stuff that you will comment and like on and thats it. When the stakes become american domsy, that excuse just isnt good enough. As you said, in the future theyll have to assume those responsibilities of editorship because theyre a Media Company not just a tech company. Snapchat is a platform, too, but theyve hired some editorial side employees largely because of dealing with this issue. The problem there is that culture of responsibility of engagement with your reerdship is really foreign to the culture of facebook. Theyre kind of allergic to becoming sort of the New York Times for the world. Its terrifying to them. But it turns out when you build a platform with a billion people on it, you get some responsibility. Thank you for your time. Sure. That is all in for this evening. The Rachel Maddow show starts right now. Good evening again. Good evening again. Thank you for having me on your show. Im very much enjoying our ongoing discussions. My pleasure. Thanks. In the summer of 2004, the democratic governor of new jersey made a very dramatic i announcement and he stped down from office. Resignation press conferences are dramatic things. This one i remember sitting on the edge of my seat. Nobody really knew where dpaekt this was going. Once he got into it, no one had ever heard a political resignation quite like this one. At a point in every persons life, one has to look deeply into the mirror of ones soul and decide ones unique truth in the world. No a