Transcripts For MSNBC The Saturday Show with Jonathan Capehart 20240706

The latest on the fierce storms that struck overnight in mississippi, killing at least 23 people. The trouble with trump, as his legal setbacks mount new concerns about Donald Trumps warning of death and destruction. And his First Official Campaign Rally in waco, texas. 30 years after they branched oven in red. Joe has, visit Marjorie Taylor greene made with insurrectionist. Ill get the inside scoop from one of the only two democrats on that tour. Congresswoman jasmine, caucus im jonathan capehart, this is a special hour of The Saturday Show. Katie fang is off this weekend. We begin this saturday with Breaking News and an update on the devastating tornado and wind storm that swept through mississippi overnight. The Monroe County coroner told nbc news that at least 23 people are dead, including a father, and his little girl. His wife and two other children were reportedly taken to an area hospital. Mississippian regency Management Agency Officials Say Search And Rescue resources and other health are being salt to the entry area, and fema is monitoring the situation. More than 100,000 americans across tennessee, mississippi, and alabama are in the dark this morning, as Utility Companies raid to restore power from donald. Well bring you more as details emerge. Meanwhile, the legal walls are closing in on donald trump from every angle. Yesterday trump attorney Evan Corcoran appeared before a Federal Grand Jury investigating trumps handling of classified documents for three and a half hours. Federal judge also ruled against trumps attempt to block his aides, including former chief of staff, mark meadows, from testifying before the grand jury investigating the january six insurrection. But the legal pressure doesnt stop there. The grand jury in the manhattan Hush Money Probe against the former president is expected to reconvene on monday. The fbi and nypd are currently investigating a letter containing a death threat, and white powder that manhattan da alvin bragg received. And although not explicitly conducted, the letter was received hours after trump warned of quote, potential death and destruction, if he is indicted. That incendiary rhetoric could be a preview of what we may hear from trump tonight. And his first come official Campaign Rally in waco, texas. Ron hilliard, whos traveling to waco texas, joins me now from west palm beach. Ron, thank you so much for being. Here has donald trump or his campaign had any response to the ruling that his former aide must have to run the january six probe . Hey good morning, jonathan. Yes this is a significant development. Donald trump nor his campaign have responded at this time yet. We expect them to appeal the ruling here by the federal judge. Were talking about, not only mark meadowss chief of staff, but also his former director of national intelligence, his former National Security adviser. Several formal aides that were Significant Players and were around donald trump in those weeks leading up to the january 6th attack on the capital here. But what the judges ruling says is that it follows the president s from when the Supreme Court unanimously ruled the Richard Nixon much turnover multiple recordings, its determining that when a potential crime is believed to have taken place, an Executive Privilege is by able to prevail over the necessity of complying with a subpoena and turning over relative documents and testify. Thats what is playing out here in the courts right now. Ultimately its a matter of what with these individuals testify and with the Special Counsel, jack smith investigation, notably donald trump just 40 hours ago called for the removal of Special Counsel jack smith, of course that would require the Department Of Justice to buy it. Were looking at an interesting week ahead. And rock, one more thing, explain the significance of Trump Holding his first rally in waco, texas, and what can we expect . Right, the campaigns been consistent. I just want to read your statement here in a moment from them. Its hard, we shouldnt lose sight for 30 years ago over a 51 a day standoff between federal agents and then branched vivians quote, this is march the 30th Anniversary. The campaign has suggested that they picked waco mount because it marks the anniversary of what some of the farright can tended was a fight against government overreach, but instead that this was selected because it was in the middle of four major texas metropolitan cities. Theyre hoping to have 10, 000, 15,000 people here at this rally this afternoon, when donald, trump of course will make these investigations are key facet of that key onstage, as hes trying to push back against the federal investigation and on him. Nbcs Vaughn Hillyard coming in from west palm beach. Thank you very much for coming to the show. Now to the latest on capitol hill. Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor greene led a delegation of Republican House lawmakers on a tour of a d. C. Jail yesterday, where some of the january six defendants are being held. Two democrats also join the group. Nbc news Congressional Correspondent Julie Tsirkin joins me now from washington d. C. With more on this story. Good morning, julie. What have you heard about this tour what are the differences between the descriptions of the jail by republican and by democrats . Oh theyre like two completely different visits to the same exact jail. And, look this is what happened when a publicans and control the house. And when woman Marjorie Taylor greene is back on powerful committees like the oversight committee. Less than a handful of the hard right, of the Republican Party. These are people including an appointment of Freshman Member and epa another member who joined her there, they visited the struggle which includes just a few of the defendants from january six who are awaiting trial, who have been deemed by a judge as a flight risk, or as risk for safety to the community. There is weather being held in this jail. Take a listen to what Marjorie Taylor greene had to say about why she visited this particular jail, watch. Now for two years we have heard the story from the people on the generous experimenting. We have heard the story about how it was an insurrection. What a mortality right now, it was mom and insurrection. That was so that you heard, by the way it was a protester actually whistling the entire length of the press conference. She says, look this wasnt an insurrection, obviously. We know that it was, and building on that day. And look at the January 6th Select Committee For Two and a half years laying out evidence, waiting to be charged in connection with the wrights allnighter. That was her view, but look, when you look at democrats there were two lawmakers, members of the Oversight Panel which here on january 6th, who went along for the jail visit. Take a listen to what one of, them robert garcia, had to say and i know youll speak to the other one very soon. We were, there we saw the insurrectionists attack a capitol. These are folks callous nonpartisan shine to overthrow democracy. To be there was difficult. And the worst part about it was when you actually saw the republicans rushed to them like they were some putting them on the back you know interacting with the these are folks that show no remorse, these are people that are being treated quite fairly. Two very different descriptions of their visit with a grain saying that these defendants were being treated poorly and with garcia clearly being treated like celebrities by Marjorie Taylor greene and these republicans. Nbcs Julie Tsirkin, thank you very much for that report. And later in this hour ill be joined by congresswoman jasmine crockett, one of the two democrats on that d. C. Jail visit to get her take on the tour. Now to the other developing news outside the United States, President Biden said the United States would respond forcefully to protect its personnel following its decision to order counterstrikes against iranian Killing Targets in syria. This week, to drums that u. S. Officials believe are of iranian origin struck two separate u. S. Military bases. One of the strikes killed a u. S. Contractor and wounded six other americans in syria. Nbc news correspondent, molly hunter joins me now. Molly, whats the latest on this developing situation . Jonathan, good morning to you, look its really a fast evolving situation since that initial attack. We do have new reporting from our colleague this morning about the two additional attacks on u. S. Coalition bases on friday. Im just looking down because she has just reported new information, they timings according to a u. S. Official, we now know that multiple rockets targeted Mission Support site in cannot. Cohen or the eastern city, in northeastern syria, excuse, me a drink in this one than just about an hour later, three Unmanned Aerial Vehicles targeted a green village, its a u. S. Insulation in that area. Two were shot, and we understand one damaged a building. There has not been, jonathan, additional u. S. Retaliation since thursday. Particulars into the pentagon spokesperson from yesterday. We will always reserve the right to respond appropriately if our forces are threatened. We dont see conflict or war with iran. Our focus on here is only during the fetal vices. Often, you hear from the spokesperson could, you heard from President Biden as well, the u. S. Is not seeking to escalate a direct confrontation with iran at this point. They are very clear that they believe iran is behind these attacks specifically, the Iran Revolutionary guard or. But they dont risk is getting something wider and something bigger. We do have a statement from prolonging forces. Saying they have quote, a long arm to retaliate against any u. S. Airstrikes, jonathan. And mrs. , molly hunter. Thank you very much for that report. Up next, a federal judge has ruled key top Trump Officials must testify before a grand jury, meaning it is time the walls are really closing in on the former president. After the break, well discuss why donald trump should be afraid, very frayed. Dont go away anywhere. Thank you like your Workplace Benefits and retirement savings. With voya, considering all your financial choices together. Can help you make smarter decisions. 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Youre froze ladies, please you put it on Airplane Mode when you pass our house. I was trying to work. Were workin it too. Yeah work it girl woo i want to hear you say it out loud. Well, i could switch us to xfinity. Those smiles. Thats why i do what i do. A significant breakthrough that and the paycheck. First Special Counsel back smith investigation into donald champ, on friday we land a federal judge in d. C. Has ordered several members of trumps inner zerkel to provide testimony in the Special Counsel jenner six investigation. Its a whos who of right wingers including, former chief of staff, mark meadows. His director of national intelligence, rod ratcliffe, his former National Security adviser, robert obrien, former close adviser, stephen miller, his former deputy chief of staff, dance given a, his former top of official, campaign chanel a. And former white house aides, nick luna and gianna markedly. Jack smith also had subpoenas out to Jared Kushner antibodies to trump. So in other words the people who know where the bodies are buried, theyre all being called in to testify. Allegedly know where the bodies are buried, of course. Joining me now Glenn Kirschner former federal prosecutor, msnbc legal analyst and host of the podcast, justice matters. Glenn, always great to see, you given the witnesses and their proximity to donald trump, on january six can we assume that donald trump is the ultimate target for johnson . You know he seems to be one of the only people who hasnt been subpoenaed and i would hasten to add, jonathan, we ordinarily dont Subpoena Targets because thats the person were intending to indict thats the person about whom we have all of the incriminating evidence. So of course they would have a Fifth Amendment right against self information. Of course lots of the other folks that you just named also may have a Fifth Amendment right and cause sultan commission. Certainly, mark meadows comes to mind. Danny scavino comes to mind, remember, they were both i referred to prosecution by the general six committee, by congress, of course. Doj never did prosecute that. But thats an easy donna points to argue that they clearly have a Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination. But, jonathan yue sudden the lead in the walls are closing in on donald trump, undeniably that is true. It looks like the walls are just about touching at this point. It should be nice to see some indictments pop out from beneath those walls. The one person i didnt mention is mike pence, the former Vice President , how might this impact his fight against testifying . Oh he will lose. Mike pence will see the inside of a grandeur room, and he will testify. The Executive Privilege is basically gone at this point. The court has ruled, over and, over again dating back to Richard Nixons time that Executive Privilege will yield when you are investigating significant crimes before the grand jury. And mike pence can say hes a legislator all he wants, because on january six. He is president of the senate presiding over the ceremonial opening of the envelopes the Electoral College vote. It doesnt make him a legislator. And think about this, jonathan. Lindsey graham, who actually is a legislator, for better or worse, he is a member of congress. He tried to avoid testifying before a grand jury by claiming speech or debate clause privilege, every job up to including a Supreme Court said, lindsey, thats not the way works, go into the grandeur in georgia testify about everything that doesnt involve speech or debate clause privilege, and if a question or two arises that does implicate that privilege, you can go ahead and assert it. Mike pences Privilege Claims will fail, he will testify and he has sharply incriminating evidence against donald trump. Mom glad you bought up the Supreme Court because trump probably going to try to push the situation to the Supreme Court. Whats the likelihood that justices would step in. Is it common for doj to try to break attorneyclient privilege . It is not all that common. It is actually pretty rare, jonathan, that we will subpoena the Criminal Defense Attorney representing the target of the grand jury investigation. Why . Because that person will order they really have a robust Attorney Client privilege to assert. But, when it looks like the client, in this case donald trump, is using the attorney whether willingly, or one willingly or, the attorney in this circumstance is Evan Corcoran, who happens to be a former federal prosecutor, using the attorney willingly or unwittingly in furtherings of crimes, the Attorney Client privilege evaporates, because of the crime fraud exception, and that attorney can be forced to testify against his client, which is what reporting indicates Evan Corcoran did for three or three and a half hours. So a suspect there was a full download in the grand jury of all of the evidence Evan Corcoran had about Donald Trumps ongoing documents, rhymes at maralago. Like you say, jonathan, the bulls are basically touching, they have closed him so much. Bro quickly, we have less than a murder that we have, left of its turn your attention to the Hush Money Payment Manhattan Da alvin braggs probe of donald trump. Im just wondering, this threat against the da, the death threat could this cause even more trouble for donald trump . It could, jonathan. In two ways. One, there could be charges brought because he is threatening a public official. It doesnt matter that he uses this thinly veiled conditional like ridge of, potential death and destruction if i am indicted. Which is what he posted. This is a very similar to the language he used our january 6th but we know incited violence. Heroes incited violence, he knows precisely what he is doing so it could be brought as a charge against him. And that it could also be used to demonstrate he is a danger, such that when hes indicted on other charges, judges will have to wrestle with what to do with this dangerous defied a pending trial. As always, thank you very much for bringing your analysis to the show. Up next jailhouse visit, Marjorie Taylor greene another maga republicans meet with january six defendants. But well get a Reality Check from one of the democrats, all the tour, texas congresswoman jasmine caucus george me live when we come back. Well done, maam. What. Did i do exactly . With snapshot from progressive, you get a personalized discount for doing exactly what youre already doing being a safe driver. Congratulations. This is a bowling trophy. Yeah, its the biggest one they had. Okay, thanks. Mmhmm. Oh. Have a good one. My asthma felt anything but normal. It was time for a nunormal with nucala. Nucala is a oncemonthly addon treatment for Severe Eosinophilic Asthma that can mean less oral steroids. 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Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor greene, spearheaded the effort. There were many, many reports of how the are being abused, and how theyre remember these are pre trial january six defendants. The reason why were here is because the justice system. And to be clear, green is defending people, like Daniel Rodriguez who drove a stun gun into the neck of former Washington Police officer, michael fanone. And samuel azar, whos accused of using a bullhorn to urge rioters to steal Police Officers guns. Some republicans have called them Political Prisoners, but its important to remember that those incarcerated for the insurrection are accused of committing actual crime. Joining me now, congresswoman jasmine crockett, of texas, who was one of the two democrats that joined that trip to the d. C. Jail yesterday. And elise jordan, msnbc political analyst. Thank you both very much for being here. Congresswoman caracas, Marjorie Taylor greene claimed shes received reports of abuse from rioters and of the jail that paints a picture of this. What do you see when you toured the jail . Listen, first of all, good to see you this morning, jonathan and i was so no january six years were coming over and saying, oh let me go and talk to her and tell my son historic, except for one. There was one, jonathan he wanted to explain to me what happened, and give me his defensive stance. But listen, what i saw was a group of very privileged individuals that were being treated so much more better than any prisoner that ive ever dealt with, and ive been doing criminal defense work and civil rights work for almost two decades. So i think that its a matter of when you want to see, and honestly, this trip was simply about having a conversation and continuing to build a defense for these folks that legitimately tried to tear our democracy apart. And they went in trying to kill colleagues of mine. You know, at least advocates and democrats have been sounding the alarm for Prison Reform for a while. Now all of a sudden, republicans are concerned with improving Prison Conditions for insurrectionists, what do you make of this . Jonathan, if theres one Silver Lining to a brutal, horrible attack on our capitol, maybe its that republicans will start to look at Justice Reform in a different light. You know, i wonder how many prisons and jails that congresswoman Marjorie Taylor greene visited in her district, in georgia. But its good that she is getting out and she is understanding the pretrial conditions that prisoners, thats the world and that they exist. And so if theres any Silver Lining to the, is it that hopefully we can become a more united in basic civil rights. Ensuring basic civil rights for all incarcerated individuals in this country. All i know is access to ipads in pretrial Incarceration S News to me. Congresswoman crockett, just last month how speaker Kevin Mccarthy said that he believed the Capitol Police officer who killed rider, ashli babbitt, quoted did his job. But this week, this week, Speaker Mccarthy met with the back of its mother. Why do you think he met with her . Listen, its hypocrisy, and its political theater. Thats all that we get out of this Republican Party. Unfortunately, we are not to get any solutions, to any problems. We dont get actual legislation. All we get is more, and more if he feels like it is good for his political career than he is going to do. And we also know that his right hand in getting the speakership was Marjorie Taylor greene. We know that she was we also know that he continued Ashli Babbitts mother is a. Properties that are organizing meeting for oversight, she was also out at the jail waiting on us to get out as well. Now, but ashley babbitts mom has to do with jail reform, im not really sure. But she had her out, there she wanted her in front of the cameras and so literally Marjorie Taylor greene is going to get her around as a prop of what injustice looks like in this country. And what Police Brutality looks like, literally, jonathan was trying to explain to me that theyre being treated way worse than black lives matter activists. And if we really do believe that theres a Police Brutality issue in this country than what you should care about the january 6th deal with as well. It was while theres all you know for me to hear and i was like, sooner, back up because i dont think you want to this. Wow. Wow. Elise lets keep talking more about because a striking to me that the speaker of the house, Marjorie Taylor greene, and republicans at large are wrapping their arms around the mother of someone who tried to break into the speakers lobby. I mean, i thought republicans were about law and order, and respect for Law Enforcement. You know, i wouldnt for meeting with a grieving mother. Giving the privacy of their officers, and trying to help her deal with her pain, regardless of how her daughter died. But using the mother as a political prop it is disgusting and its praying on someone who was at a really low moment, and using her for purposes other than reflecting on the legacy of her daughter, and it just makes me very sad that her mother has gotten caught up in this situation, and is being used by people who would she clearly is dark. Congresswoman crockett, we have 30 seconds left about the former president apologies, donald trump is headed to your state for a Campaign Rally tonight. Waco, texas. What do you make of that Site Selection for a Campaign Rally . Oh, okay. We know this is in fact reactors had an Ad Hearing Down in waco, a listening session. It is a favorite spot for republicans to go in the state of texas. We know this has an unfortunate history that comes out of waco. It is my hope the that citizen start to wake up and recognize that deciding that you want to tiresome to trump really isnt going to go. I dont think we need to go with either but we need to definitely do something different. When you talk about the party of law and order, we know that trump definitely doesnt stand for that. If anything, he stands for nothing but lawlessness. That is exactly why he is so brazen to go out and make these threats against our da in manhattan. So i think that people should really decide that if you want somebody to stand for the things, and i dont know that we can frontline the Republican Party. I know they cant find it with trump. Congresswoman jasmine crockett, a louis thank you both very much for this area. Coming up, what a possible unprecedented indictment of former President Donald Trump could mean for the United States. Keep it right here. Che and allergy relief two pills relieve Allergy Headache Pain . 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That was during the Watergate Scandal when president Richard Nixons resignation. President gerald ford pardon him. A century before, that in 1872, president Ulysses S Grant was the first president to be arrested. But that wasnt for an investigation on hush money payments to a porn stars alleges and to be putting an insurrection, or mishandling of classified documents. Grant was just arrested for speeding on the horse and buggy. Joining me now, michael special, of msnbc and nbc news president ial historian and author of the New York Times bestseller president s of a war. Michael as always, thank you very much for being here. What an indictment of a former u. S. President historically mean for the country. It would be unprecedented. Yeah, it would mean that donald trump is in a category of his own because hes the only president whos done something so awful or multiple things are awful with the multiple indictments that he stands alone in this box of the only president to be indicted. And the other thing is that it makes i think as look back on what gerald ford did and probably richer next only a month after nixon resigned to avoid charles and it basically but i cant stand the idea of a president going to jail. Well to a great extent that sent a message to later president , especially donald trump reduction on nixon in his retirement extremely well, and tell them he was a great man. There was something that led to trump thinking i believe that the worst punishment for a president or former president is you get to go back to your Seaside Resort just as extended. If for the not up parted so quickly, that might not have happened. Lowe, and trump is likely the first president to respond by appearing to incite violence as this week when he warned of a potential death instruction. When i saw that i was disturbed brother. What was your reaction, should we be concerned about another january 6th style violence . Or worse. Because here we have a case, when can you what i think of an expresident or president , or president ial candidate who essentially threaten the assassination implied of a park cuter. In an effort i believe to intimidate prosecutors all over the country as well as jurors and others who are likely involved in the trial. You get involved in the trial of donald trump, you may be subject to the same kind of danger against your life. No president has ever done that before and i love your segment just before about waco. When it goes you were all saying, in April Of 1993 with the national nontraditional between the doj and the fbi and the atf against a group of people who were in a stage with David Caressed and coleaders, ultimately, tragically killed former 80 of them including two years later that led to the worst act on that same anniversary. It might worst acts of domestic terrorism in American History in oklahoma city. Donald trump knows exactly what hes doing. So youve got an ex president threatening domestic terrorism. We know that he is in the with groups like this or at least in charge. Never seen anything like this before. Its really really incredible, im glad you brought up the significance of waco. But what is the significance of trump, it did the shoe do his threats against manhattan da, alvin bragg. The significance of him calling the manhattan da a surrells but out of. All of this is the ex president. And one who tried to argue the donald trump was not a disgusting, racist bud. That one social media post should do it for you. George sorrow is back. That was a talk about alvin bragg as an animal in the context of black history in this country, for centuries, its a complete outrage. So this is a guy who is threatening violence, threatening potentially, assassination, ugly share the horrible springs erases in this country. Which i believe, he has that for at least eight years. Even in his private life before. That this is about as well as it gets. Yes, but maybe even lower was when trump posted an article in front of himself holding a baseball bat, next to a voter of manhattan da, all the brine. How alum should we be about that . Thats what i be brought regardless oxidation. If he is tried to set a very obvious message. And the prosecutor who goes back me, donald trump, i want the baseball bat taken after you. I want hes employ to surround the kernels attack people who are involved in these trials. This is mob rule, this is not american democracy. We have now gone from president ial history, into the history of violence, and heroism against black people, against jewish people, and he has all sorts of people in this country for centuries. We are now in an area that we are received before. Another example going to be talking to ruth how this fits into the world and [inaudible] katie fengs interview with the great actor james, hamed what it means to really have representation at hollywood, and its performance in the oscar wedding hit, everything, everywhere, all it was. You dont want to miss it. Keep it right here. Were gunna miss you. You can check in on your home. Arm the system, we should go. Manage your system from virtually anywhere. thump scream and get intelligent alerts, like when a package has arrived. Bye. Have a good night. Boo when the most trusted name in Home Security adds the intelligence of google, you have a home with no worries. Brought to you by adt. When moderate to Severe Ulcerative Colitis keeps flaring, put it in check with rinvoq, a oncedaily pill. When uc got unpredictable, i got rapid Symptom Relief with rinvoq. And left bathroom urgency behind. Check. When uc got in my way, i got lasting, steroidfree remission with rinvoq. Check. 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When youre a leader, the competition is always hoping that youre gonna slip up. So, these suits are here to make sure that anything that i say is legally indisputable. Like. Apartments. Com has the widest variety of variety. Apartments. Com was the reason that apartments were invented. Heck we got more spaces than space thats entirely incalculable. Incalculable. Oh, i think thats legalese for. For true. [laughing] apartments. Com the place to find a place. Age is just a number, and mines unlisted. Try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for Muscle Health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. Boost® high protein. Now available in cinnabon® bakeryinspired flavor. Learn more at boost. Com tv my colleague, katie phang, is off this morning. But before she left, she had a chance to talk with veteran actor, james one of the stars of the oscar winning film, everything, everywhere, all at once. It was a truly amazing and moving conversation. Take a look. Joining us now is actor, producer, and director, james hong. James, it is an honor to have you join the katie phang show. First question, out of the gate. What was oscars night like for you with everything, everywhere, all it once winning seven awards. Are you still riding the high from the winds . Yeah, in fact the next day i was so exhausted that i just keep sleeping for a long long time. Its exhausting. Probably, the biggest ive ever been to. Just to give you an idea, its five blocks before the building, there was a line of cars. So i said oh my goodness, its going to take forever, you know. And we got to, and theres another 200 people in line to get in the place. Thats how big it is. But i got there, and i sat down and enjoyed my soul. I can see you in georges off by the fact that you were the person who was really honored by being able to get up on that stage, and join your cast mates. But what i wanted to tell you, as skill, is that its been a long journey for. You talked about being bullied. You dont speak much english as you were growing up, and obviously you look different. That Experience Chair the way you look at yourself, your heritage, being a Chinese American In America . Well, when youre young, i was in minneapolis, myself is in minneapolis. I can remember those days. You just a kid, you dont know anything. We are not aware of what the society, of what the people are thinking and so forth. But i was, probably one of the few, few Asian Americans in the whole downtown of loss sorry minneapolis. So you dont know whats going on, youre being a little kid and i did a lot of impersonations because there was bell theaters to join or the teachers than say im going to give you a chance to be in the play, or anything like that. So i could act by myself. And thank goodness i did in those early days, because it was the same thing that i did in front of my mirror when i came to los angeles, i was paid for instead of just doing voice overs for nothing. So, you might say i trained myself in minneapolis, minnesota. And when i got to hollywood, it was a totally different atmosphere. You have more film and tv credits than anyone in hollywood, more than 700 credits, over a span of 70 years. Talk about how much of a toll it hook on your drive, and your desire to act when in those earlier decades, youre only options for a role were tired of hollywood of the villain or the railroad worker. You are absolutely right. When i first started job like him quite often, but it was all cliched. There were no rules that were really important like lawyers, or doctors. We did not represent the important people in the walks of life, in america. We were always giving people royal workers, or something for the comics. Like a lot of my friends did in the a tv series, they were summoned, and just for the humor. We were never real people. We didnt really have any real feelings. And so, it was from that period throughout my career, and we did plays, and we showed the socalled, hollywood producers, what we were capable of. That was really what actors, and began to happen. Since that time, it got better and better. Until now, all of a sudden i think everything, everywhere, all at ones, showed what we can really do across. The audience, the people in the field, the people in economy appreciated it so much that they voted us as the best foam of the year. Which, you know, really brave my heart feels so much better. You can well imagine from nothing, ground zero in 1950, 3 54 when i joined, to now we are winning awards, being recognized as the director, producer, actor but theres a long way to come here, of course. As we ask, you i know you have 3. 08 grandchildren. How old are the grandchildren . Oh my goodness, i cant even keep track. My oldest daughter i think she has seven, the oldest grandchild, she was approximately 30, i would say are. Thats pretty impressive. Look i know they must really be proud of you. I lost my father going on for years, itll be june this year, itll be four years. So i know that the really proud of you, and im so glad that youre still going. Thank you for all the stuff that youve done for our community, and that youre continuing to. There i really appreciate it. Did your father see you as you are now, the moderator, they only asian not her own name on the program, did he see that are not . No, i dont actually getting choked up because youre asking, we know he passed away from alzheimers and dementia and fathers day of 2019, so he never got to see me do this. So but i know he was probably. I know he was very proud of me. But yeah. I would be. He wouldve been being on the moon. Yeah, certainly thats very if i, and my daughter is still an actor, shes done [inaudible] shes done a good job, like you are doing your job, im sure your father and i, being a father, we would be very proud of her children. Just putting the name forward. Thank you so much, im sorry for cry. Are they really does movie spend time with you. No, thank you. My honor. Oh wow, thank you again to james hong, and my colleague, katie phang for that great conversation. Next saturday, april 2nd, join katie phang for the culture is aapi. In which she house aide to the party with pioneering Asian American and Pacific Islander woman who are shaping american culture. Shes joined by political and Business Mogul and child, plus an intimate conversation with comedian and lgbtq activists, parker. Watch, the culture is aapi, on sunday, april 2nd, at 10 pm eastern on msnbc registry or peacock. And coming up in the next hour of The Saturday Show, joins me to break down what a possible Trump Indictment might mean for the future of american democracy, and what his latest behavior might signal about his current state of mind, on the second hour of the special addition of The Saturday Show, i heard, keeper here on msnbc. Relieving Nasal Congestion and sinus pressure by reducing swelling in the sinuses. Try vicks sinex. The seats, gotta go what play is that . When you play here. No backboard tuck your elbow. Fade away [ ] if you have diabetes, its important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. Try boost glucose control®. Its clinically shown to help manage Blood Sugar Levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support Muscle Health. Try boost® today. If you still have symptoms of moderate to severe Rheumatoid Arthritis or active Psoriatic Arthritis after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. Stand up to your symptoms with rinvoq. Rinvoq is a oncedaily pill that tackles pain, stiffness, swelling. For some, rinvoq significantly reduces ra and psa fatigue. It can stop further irreversible joint damage. And rinvoq can leave skin clear or almost clear in psa. Thats rinvoq relief. Rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. Serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. People 50 and older with at least one Heart Disease risk factor have higher risks. Dont take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. Tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. Ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. Rinvoq. Make it your mission. Learn how abbvie could help you save. Fighting words. No trumps favor rhetoric amid growing legal trouble and his First Official Campaign Rally in waco, texas. 30 years after the Branch Dominion standoff. Hate on the rise. We will take a look at the fbis alarming new reports. And ron versus dawn. The showdown between ron desantis and donald trump, and how trumps legal battles are shaping the race for 2024. Im jonathan capehart. Another hour of this saturday show starts now. 30 years ago, a farright Anti Government religious cult known as the Branch Dominion had a 51 day standoff with the federal government that brought the nation to a standstill. When the dust settled, 82 Branch Dominions, including 25 children and four federal agents, were dead after law enforce federal Law Enforcement attempted to raise the cult compound because they were still legally stockpiling guns. Illegally. Waco became a site of a special significance to the farright, as an example of civilian confronting what they viewed as government overreach. Oklahomas Timothy Mcvay visited waco during the siege and described it as part of his motive for blowing up a Federal Building in oklahoma city. The deadliest act of domestic terrorism in u. S. History, but saying, quote, waco started this war and that he hopes oklahoma would end it. With that context, of course, its disturbing that donald trump has chosen this symbol of the farright to be the location of his first 2024 president ial Campaign Rally. And it comes to midterms increasingly aggressive rhetoric. All week, trump has been attacking the prosecutors in all of the various cases against him, going so far as to say that, quote, potential death and destruction would follow. If he was indicted. All the legal pressure continues to mount. All eyes continue to be on trump and his response. Joining me now, barbara mcquade, msnbc legal analyst, former u. S. Attorney in michigan, and Law Professor at the university of michigan law school. Barbara, thank you very much for being here. Trump shared this post featuring him with a baseball bat on truth social. You see it right there. Does this pose rise to the level of a threat of violence by Trump Against Da Brag . So jonathan, i would see this as something thats probably not legally actionable because it is subtle. Maybe not so subtle. Its not whats called a true threat, where you specifically articulate what you will do to another person. But make no mistake, this is absolutely a call for harm. This is what, you know, i spent time on domestic terrorism as a prosecutor and professor. This is whats referred to as stochastic terrorism. It is im just going to put something out there, hes also talking about death and destruction. Hes rallying in waco on the 30th Anniversary of this siege, which he knows has motivated domestic terrorists like Timothy Mcvay. Someone out there is going to take up this call. You know, he may say i never said anything. He didnt say it directly, but he knows in the same way after the maralago search, we saw someone in cincinnati fbi office there. Someone is going to take the bait here, so its incredibly dangerous and irresponsible, and reckless. But its probably just shy of the law that would make a criminal. Wow, you know, he also shared a post on his social media platform, calling for the removal of everyone. Prosecuting him. What does this mean for the people working on these cases . Its a serious matter, jonathan. You know, i think that when your prosecutor and you get threats, most prosecutors do. Not usually from a former president of the United States. He really find it all the more motivating because a laughing you can do now is sandown in the face of threats. But it is a serious concern. I know theres been reports that alvin bragg sent an email to everyone in his office, talking about how he would protect their safety. But it is a concern in that this is not something we ordinarily experience in america. It is rare that prosecutors get harmed or killed because of their official duties. But one of former president goes after you like this. Again, somebody out there is going to take that bait, so it makes people incredibly unsafe when somebody takes these kinds of actions. So then, as a result of these threats, im wondering, you know, because a federal judge recently ruled that jurors will remain anonymous in the upcoming carroll versus trump case. Do you think this is a direct response to whats happening to the a bragg . Yeah, i dont know the reasons specifically, but absolutely that is an option in a case like this, to protect members of the jury. I could even see, jonathan, perhaps a judge in this case entering a gag order against donald trump, to prevent him from talking about this case. You know, you cant really gag a former president who is campaigning for president from speaking at all. But i think you could order him not to talk about this case. For example, remember when roger stone was on trial, he posted on social media a photo of the judge in his case with a rifle crosshairs, superimposed over her face. And she was concerned that that could cause a circus like atmosphere in the trial. And so, i could imagine a judge in this case imposing a similar gag order on donald trump. That might be very good for public safety, for all of us. Lets talk about one of trumps many recent losses. Many members of his inner circle are not being forced to testify, including former chief of staff, mark meadows, and a bunch of other people you see on the screen there. The through line through all these witnesses is that they can help us understand the motive and the actions of donald trump. So, im wondering, is trump the ultimate target for jack smith . Well, prosecutors like to say they investigate crimes, not people. And so, at some point the, people do emerge as targets because once youve done all the work, it becomes pretty apparent that there is a certain person at the heart of it all, and it does seem that it must be donald trump. They cant ignore his role in all of this. And so, i think this investigation is kind of concentric circles. You start raspberry as possible, you talk to everybody who can think of, and then you start moving in. It becomes apparent whos at the center of that circle. In this case, it has to be donald trump. As you say, they talk to people like mark meadows, theyre speaking to people like mike pence. The center of that circle is donald trump, and so, at some point, theyre going to have to make a decision whether to charge or decline charges against donald trump. And whats interesting, so yesterday, trumps own lawyer, Evan Corcoran, testified for three and a half hours to the jack smith grand jury. What are the implications here . The significance of, one, him going into see the grand jury, but also the amount of time he spent. This is a really big deal, jonathan. The judge overseeing the grand jury process in washington, d. C. , made an extraordinary ruling that she was going to breach the Attorney Client privilege, based on the crime fraud exception. Because she found, by a preponderance of the evidence, that donald trump had committed a crime. Its a very big deal. The ordinarily sacrosanct, but there is an exception because we dont want clients using the attorneyclient privilege simply as a shield when theyre using it to advance criminal activity. So, that alone is a big deal. The fact that he testified for three and a half hours says that they were fruitful. They were getting some information. The judge also ordered that they could ask questions about some very specific areas that centered on what looks to me like questions about Obstruction Of Justice by donald trump, when the Justice Department was investigating the documents at maralago. Conversations he had with donald trump when subpoenas were received, for example, about Video Footage about movement of boxes, and so, i think that it could be that theyre focusing on donald trump and potential Obstruction Of Justice charges. It could be that this is the last witness they need to talk to before theyre able to make a charge and decision. Real quickly, less than 30 seconds, but am i reading too much into it, by how quickly that court made this determination . Where judge barrel says, no Attorney Client privilege, then the new chief judge comes in says, hey, wait a minute, then almost immediately says, oh no, trump attorneys, youve got until midnight. Jack smith, youve got until six 8 am to respond to the midnight filing. That is, in and of itself, a significant development. That is the most extraordinary Briefing Schedule ive ever heard in my life. The Justice Department had between midnight and 6 am to file their response . Ive never seen anything like that. I dont know the reason. It could be that they dont want donald trump threatening the it could be that there were some of entering their, that they were needing to meet thats not known to the public. It could even be that the documents had already been turned over, and so, they were trying to avoid a scenario where there was a reversal after the force was out of the so to speak. I dont know, but it does seem that judges are getting trumps number, in terms of not giving him a lot of time to delay the quest for justice. We are going to have to leave it there. Barbara mcquade, thank you, as always, for coming to this saturday show and we have an update on some Breaking News after a devastating tornado and wind storm swept through mississippi overnight, at least 23 people are dead, including a father and his little girl. His wife and two other children were reportedly taken to an area hospital. Mississippi governor, tate read, tweeted earlier this morning saying, in part, the loss will be felt in these towns forever. Please pray for gods hand to be over all who lost family and friends. Mississippi Officials Say, Search And Rescue resources and other help are being sent to the area and fema is monitoring the situation. We will bring you more as details emerge. Coming up, the strongmans dream is to be above prosecution altogether. Thats what makes my next guest, which, anyway, thats what she wrote in a column recently. His story and commentator on joins me after the break. You dont want to miss this conversation. Ah, loveseats. 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To close, twist until it clicks. Tide pods childguard packaging. Some type of manufactured circus by some sort of d. A. This prosecutor, alvin bragg, its from george soros. His master, george soros. George soros. Mr. Soros. Alvin bragg in particular is the most magical d. A. You can ultimately get to. George soros funded him over 1 million. As the possibility of a Trump Indictment looms, the former president and many in the Republican Party continue to take aim at manhattan da, alvin bragg. Their latest tactic involves trying to connect bragg to billionaire philanthropist, george soros. Hes been portrayed as a socalled Globalist Bogeyman by the right, which is totally antisemitic. Ruth benghiat joins me now to discuss. Shes a History Professor at nbu and the author of strongmen, mussolini to the president. Ruth, thank you so much for coming back to the show. Former President Trump is taking a very threatening stance against the a rag. Lashing out on social media platform, calling brag, quote, an animal. Is this something out of the authoritarian playbook . Absolutely and, you know, its also part of the right Talking Point today that is starting with orban in hungary, who soros is hungarian, who made george soros into the kind of enemy. And every authoritarian has to have an enemy, and trump, who feels the walls are closing in on him and its acting like a cult leader, needs as many enemies as possible to fire up people. So, he has Anti Governments, you know, extremists, the deep state. And so, to add in that there is an International Conspiracy with jews and International Capital against him is a proven Talking Point, and with a very long history. You know, ruth, donald trump is holding a rally tonight in waco, texas, almost exactly 30 years after the infamous deadly standoff there. What message do you think trump is trying to send by holding a rally there . It could not be clearer that, of course, he sees himself as a cult leader. Maga is a cult. They have their slogans, their hats, their belief system, and they have their god. And the original, you know, waco cult standoff, the Branch Dominion, the leader was, he told him, his followers, he was a god and trump has plenty of people, including the Current Governor of arkansas, they have evangelical christians, who have always said that hes been put in office by the will of god. And its just very dangerous because, you know, ive always seen january 6th insurrection as a leader called rescue operation. He was going down and he summoned his followers, and if you study cults, you know that followers to become very volatile if they think hes going down. And trump expose that. Right now, hes saying that hes under siege and that violence, you know, is appealing to the violence in the way to save him. So, hes been sending the last weeks message of the apocalypse. Its me or lets keep on this point, ruth, because when he put out that message last week saying, you, know protest, there, take our country back. And then no protests materialize. And a lot of people were thinking, oh, well, if an indictment comes down, if hes indicted, we dont have to worry about protests. What youre seeing in the lancet answer is no, no, take this very seriously because if he is indicted, that his people hearing that, their cult leader is going down, or is in danger, will come out and protest, or show support for him. Yeah, thats the intent. Whether that happens or not we shall see, but you know, lets remember that the person who was trying to get nancy pelosi and had a hammer in the goal of paul pelosi was a mega follower. So, the more isolated incidents that come, the more that trump is able to say that, you know, its not good to prosecute him because it creates a climate that could intimidate and prevent prosecution, that no one wants blood on their hands. Authoritarians always do this. They threatened preventively to keep people off their trail. Sometimes they use violence to so many people poisons people for years, just to set an example. And so, trump is inciting violence, hoping that someone will, indeed, take this up, as Barber Mcquade said, theres a high likelihood. Could be considered as a kind of domestic terrorists, but the victimhood is very important here to. He has to be the victim. He has to be under siege and victimhood is also lucrative, which is important to him. He raised over one point 5 million since he circulated the news that he might be indicted. So, hes got violence, money, and being like a god, those are all the elements that he cares most about. Incredible. Weve got 30 seconds, so real short. In your newsletter, you wrote about how Governor Ron Desantis is building a leader called on instagram. Given the book bans, Education Limits is also enacted in florida, what authoritarian tactics do you see desantis using . Maybe just given. Well, hes been bullying people for years and before a legislator and bullying private companies, you know, bullying even a Special Olympics event as well and so, that is one linking point to show what kind of leader he wants to be. Ruth benghiat, as always, thank you very much for coming to this saturday show. And coming up, hate crimes in the United States reach a record high, as federal officials warn about the increased threats from domestic terrorism and white nationalists. We will dig into the numbers after the break. After the break. Oh, my daughter gives the best hugs were just passing through on our way to the jazz jamboree. [ Imitates Trumpet Playing ] and we wanted to thank americas numberone Motorcycle Insurer for saving us money. Thank you. [ laughs ] mara, your parents are exactly like me . I know, right . 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And while this is a fuller picture of whats going on in the nation when the initial port that falsely indicated hate crimes decreased in 2021, its very likely the statistics are still an undercount of what is happening in our country. Joining me now, margaret wong, president and ceo of the Southern Poverty Law Center and fpl see action fund. And bryan 11, director of the center for the study of hate and extremism at California State University at san bernardino, which independently monitors hate crimes in cities across the country. Thank you both very much for being here. Margaret, i will start with you. What is driving this increase in hate crimes specifically . Good morning, jonathan. Well, we all have to look back at what happened at the beginning of 2021. The january 6th insurrection really set the tone for the year with all of its hateful rhetoric, with its calls for violence against both individuals and beliefs, and ideologies. That set the tone for the entire year. And so, what weve seen is this dramatic increase with all of those numbers that youve just cited, which actually translates into the highest number of hate crimes ever recorded against african americans, against Asian Americans, Pacific Islanders, against the lgbtq community. These are all record high numbers for the first time because of the tone that the former President Trump. And brian, your Organization Studies and aggravates hate crime data as well. I understand your reporting for 2021 was triple what the fbi released. Why such a marked difference . Well, actually on 2021 was exactly in line. Let me just tell you why. The fbi gave the media deceptive information. The increase was not 12 . Its like they used a different headline, so like, on your sister network, cnbc, you compare the s p 500. Bottom line is when you look at the top line number of 8263 in 2020 and 10,000 140 the next year, thats a 31 increase, and we saw 29 increase across the major American Cities. Now, you will have a little bit of difference because the major American Cities are demographically the difference in the rest of the country. But overall 224 increase in anti asian in 2021. Fbi showed 100 and 67 . And we have 2022 data, which shows, there you go, look. Anti black, look at that. Thats a 14 increase right there. And in the mix your four antilgbt, we have, like, a 70 increase. So, our numbers are trending matt whats going on. Let me just Say Something real quick. Look, from 2020 to 2022, we are seeing three Consecutive Years of increase. However, the 2022 increases are not across the board. They are smaller and we are seeing a kind of the largest cities are hitting either modern records or the highest in decades, while going down the next couple of runs, its much more mixed. But were seeing single digit increases in the major cities for 2022 and thats on top of increases that we had in 2021 and 2020. One quick thing. Real quick. We saw an Inflection Change in 2020, Where Anti Black hate crimes have been going down since 96 as a proportion of all hate crimes. That switched and we had the worst month ever in 2020, Where Anti Black hate crimes. Guess one . The George Floyd Protests and june and its staying up longer. You know, margaret, recently a 24yearold man was sentenced to 42 months in prison after burning across in his front yard, trying to intimidate black neighbors to move. But hate crimes are notoriously hard to prosecute. Why . And what would change that . Such an important question, jonathan. So, what you have to remember is the reason that the numbers dont capture the actual experiences of people across the country is because so many Law Enforcement agencies arent actually reporting them, and thats why weve had so many confirms concerns about the fbi report. Nearly a quarter of the almost 19,000 federal Law Enforcement agencies across the country did not report a single hate crime. And that speaks to your question. Why is it so hard to identify and to prosecute those types of crimes . And it is because there is an element of subjectiveness. Its somebody doing this simply because of a bias or a racist intent . Or is somebody doing this because there are a criminal or bad person . And often, its up to police, Law Enforcement, or the prosecutors, to determine whether or not the cause of these hateful acts was actually inspired by racism or sexism, or some other kind of discrimination. You know, margaret, when you say that the jurisdictions didnt report hate crimes, we maybe wonder, do all jurisdictions, do they report hate crimes . Are they legally mandated to report hate crimes . Legally required to do so . Thats the most important point, jonathan. Weve been calling for federally mandated hate Crime Reporting for years. Nearly every Law Enforcement agency in the country received some kind of support, resources, training from the federal government. None of that is conditioned on complying with reporting on hate crimes and other important criminal statistics. We think it is vital that federal support and resources should be tied to reporting on these types of crimes. I mean, real quickly, brian, weve got a minute left. Antisemitic incidents in the u. S. Are at an alltime high. The adl tracked almost 3700 incidents of assault or acts of vandalism in 2022, up 36 increase over 2021. Your organization saw a 28 rise an anti jewish hate crime in 2022. Talk about those numbers real quickly. Real quick, first of all, about 88 of Law Enforcement agencies across the country either dont report or report zero. So, thats a high percentage. But i think what were seeing is were not only seeing hate crimes against jews go up and by the way, this is the second Consecutive Year pre pandemic, it went down places were kind of close. Gathering places were kind of close. What were seeing is a new area and were seeing a more public and brazen type of antisemitism that doesnt always manifest itself in criminality. So, we look at a Variety Of Social Science data to say, we are in deep trouble. Bryan levin, margaret wang, thank you both very much for coming to The Saturday Show and tomorrow, jonathan greenblatt, ceo of the antidefamation league, joins me live to discuss the growing Antisemitic Attacks by donald trump in and other republicans. That is tomorrow beginning at 8 pm right here on msnbc. And after the break, the republican race for 2024, donald trump is buried in legal trouble, but still as a top of the poll. We will take a closer look at how potential challenger, around desantis, is responding. Around desantis, is responding. Inner voice Graphic Designer as a new Small Business owner. Ive learned that trying to be the cool boss. Is a lot harder when youre actually the stressed boss. 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The Manhattan District Attorney is a soros funded prosecutor, and so, he, like other soros funded prosecutors, they weaponize their office to impose a political agenda on society, at the expense of the rule of law and public safety. I dont know what goes into paying hush money to a porn star, to secure silence over some type of alleged affair. I just cant speak to that. I cant speak to that. This week, florida governor, ron desantis, trying to find a way to attack both manhattan da, alvin bragg, and donald trump, ahead of trumps lightly likely indictment. Some would consider this a feasible strategy for desantis, if he decides to run against trump in 2024, as expected. But despite trumps momentous legal woes, he still holds a large lead over desantis in recent polls and hes already raised more than 1. 5 million bucks in Campaign Cash since claiming he would be arrested on tuesday. Here with me on set is jean obeidallah, host of siriusxms the Dean Obeidallah show and an msnbc columnist. And also joining us is jennifer horn, former New Hampshire republican chair and Senior Fellow at the university of Chicago Harris School of public policy. Thank you both very much for coming to the show. Let me start with you, dean, and your new column that just came out this morning. Youre right about trump, how trumps rhetoric is dangerous. Tell me more. Sure. Look what he did. He began last night racing protest, protest, protest. The protests did not happen. He is escalating rhetoric. This talk about mocking the ideas, they are destroying our country and they want us to be peaceful. Mocking. That then calling alvin bragg an animal, a sociopath, all these vile names. Then posting a picture where hes holding a bag over alvin braggs head and just continues. You have against alvin bragg. Donald trump knows what hes doing. Even in a post january 6th world, donald trump knows his words can lead to violence and that is what is happening and the gop base and gop leaders wont say anything. Jim jordan, he didnt even want to read the comment that donald trump made about destruction and death, if hes charged with a crime. We need more gop leaders to speak up, they wont. At this point, theyre complicit, to be honest, i think. Jennifer, picking, up in response to what dean is saying, im also mystified by the fact that Republican Leaders wont speak up, wont say anything. Why . Right, well, because think about what they want. They want to be reelected, they want to continue to raise big money from small dollar donors. And they dont want donald trump targeting them the way that he targets every other person, you know, who comes across his path in any way. The gop, at this point, when you go, you can go away before january 6th. But certainly once january 6th happened and unfolded right before our eyes on television, when the leadership in the party after that continue to embrace donald trump as a party leader, as a Thought Leader for the Republican Party, that was our sign right then that they were going to be beholden to him and owned by him for as long as hes around. They cant afford to take off donald trump, further perspective, from their way of looking at it. And i think the best example of the degree to which donald trump owns the gop is Kevin Mccarthy. Without him and he didnt just sell his home, he saw that the American People to get the votes he needed to become speaker. You know, been, hovering over this and tire 2024 campaign, is the potential indictments of not just the former president , but a current candidate for the republican nomination for president. How would an indictment change trumps message . How would it change the people already in the race, their message . If you think donald trump talks about himself all the time, it would be amplified if he was indicted because everything is about him. This is kind of mythology out there if trump is charged, it makes him a stronger candidate. Maybe in the gop, but not a general election. I can tell you what. First of all, if you charge, he gets rained. The article on donald trump, lose out on bail, donald trump, whos facing 5 to 10 years in prison is campaigning in iowa today. Secondly, donald trump knows its not helpful for him. Hes freaking out an example though of where he knew was michigan last year, the gubernatorial race, a guy named ryan kelly was running. He got charged with a crime for entering the premises on january 6th, no violence, charged. Immediately, he rolls the top of the raise money, the donald trump ignores him . No. He endorsed tudor dixon, the he knew the guy couldnt win and he came forth out of five candidates. So, even donald trump knows an indictment, an albatross around your neck, youre going to lose with it and if you lose money, people, some of the big republican donors, theyre really invested. They are not donors, are they going to investigate under indictment . I dont think so jennifer, what do you think about that . Because i agree with dean that an indictment of donald trump is not going to be in his benefit in the long term. But in the short term, it most certainly will. Right, absolutely. Its not going to get him elected to the white house in a general election, there is no question about that. But could it, you know, helped push him towards the nomination . Absolutely. You know, you have to remember that regardless of whether were talking about Party Leaders or, you know, donors or anything else, this is all said by the base of the Republican Party right now. Theyll they love what theyre getting for donald trump. They love his protest, protest, protest, fight, fight, fight. And should donald trump be indicted or, you know, over the course of this campaign, im convinced it will absolutely rally his base and my biggest concern is that it will rally his base to real violence, to potentially, you know, widespread violence. So, his rhetoric is incredibly dangerous, but no one should think that these legal actions will get him out of the race. You know, on jennifers point about violence, it makes me think, lets say violence does break out. He gets indicted, violence breaks out, what does Governor Desantis do . Also hes not even announced. What does nikki haley do . Shes the only person whos announced. Then desantis, mike pence. All these other people who are talked about as candidates. What do they do . If they win the nomination, or defend donald trump. The reality is i think its so important and i talked about this in a column recently. Specifically last year, 51 of republicans now and see january 6th as an act of patriotism. Those members going up, like Marjorie Taylor greene yesterday, talk about the prisoners that on january 6th, some of the worst of the worst, as being Political Prisoners who we should support them. We have to be aware in america, there are two political parties. Over 50 of one of them views january 6th as something in a positive light at this point. Those numbers are going up and we really have to talk about explaining to certain people what fascism is and why academically, not hyperbolically, why this is becoming a fascist movement, because theyre embracing the use of violence to acquire and retain power. That is fascism. So, people dont think it could happen here. It is happening here. And i fear for this country Going Forward what will happen with donald trump is charged. What will we see more violence or not . Even in waco today, its another Recruiting Tool for more of the extremists out there, because some are in jail right now. Jennifer, last word to you. Real quickly, do you share genes deans fear about violence and also to make a point that right now, as we are talking, people are already gathering in waco for a rally that isnt even going to happen until tonight . I absolutely share his concern about the potential for violence breaking out across this country. And, you know, what people need to understand is thats what donald trump wants. That empowers him, that gets his base rolling, and it feeds some truly damage sociopathic, you know, damage in his mind. It peeves him. Hes not capable of saying what hes doing or caring about what hes doing. It is a real concern and im very worried about how many people in the Republican Party are unwilling to speak up and do not take seriously the possibility of violence across the United States. As a result of this. Jennifer hart, dean abdalla, thank you so much for coming to The Saturday Show and up next, reinventing our lives, especially in the wake of covid. 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