The American People under obama care. But it all has to begin with a simple discussion. Joining me today editor in chief of buzz feed ben smith, host of msnbcs disrupt, karen finney and Washington Post columnist eugene robinson. Joining us from washington, i forgot, new York Magazine jo jonathan not that im not thrilled, jonathan. You still talking about obama care as a precondition to fund the government. I thought we were passed this point but apparently not. Youre listening to public statements. Publicly hes in the same place hes always been. Privately hes in a different place. Hes floating to every reporter to listen his desire to have a big budget deal to get out of this nightmare hes gotten into. He wants not a grand bargain but smaller bargain that gives him something to show to his base to prove what they went into was worth the sacrifice. Karen, the speaker was speaking at a podium that said letstalk. It could have zedd this is not a game. Not a game you started. Reminds me when youre a teenager and you want to borrow your partners car. And youre like, thats not fair. I want to borrow the car. I remember my mother saying its my car. I dont have to negotiate with you. To your point, were still talking about obama care . No. Time to move on. Clearly to johns point, hes at a point hes so desperate in the caucus, hes at a point i need something, a Little Something to let these people feel like they won. The thing is, this is the situation they keep getting themselves into. They should have seen it during the summer, headed it off, letting the rhetoric get hot, letting them walk into the corner that this was going to be the showdown. You know, ben, i would say even saying the word obama care at this point is bad for boehner because its a reminder of why they got into this thing in the first place and also a reminder that the only thing it seems like they could get as far as a repeal of obama care is the repeal of the medical device tax, which is a 30 billion excise tax. I dont know how much it cost so far but i bet its going to end up more than what the medical device tax repeal is. The way out is through symbolic nonsense and fake victory which nobody buys. The question is what level of nonsense obama will allow with a straight face will present. Thats the question, eugene. The president has been very firm. Hes said in no Uncertain Terms were not negotiating over this. You guys need to find a way out. Let me be clear, too. This show is not some damn game. Never said it was. Number two, hes talking about obama care. Obama care is happening. Its happening. You know, thats over. People are signing up for insurance. Its like lets get past it. Are you going to take it away from them . Its ridiculous at this point. The speaker pointed to mini spending bills through the house. First its like ctheater. Basically making a list of all programs essential and foundational to american democracy. One by one. The rule they seem to have is anyone who can get on the evening news in any form can have their program reopened. If theres a story about a child whose horrible cancer condition is not treated, you can be open. If youve got a memorial, you can be open. Anyone in the public eye, you can be open. One by one. The plan they are trying to do is open every part of the government except the implementation of obama care. Democrats arent going to agree to that. Ben, im fascinated unending by the fractures within the Republican Party. They are the hard line conservatives, the hard line tea partiers versus the moderates. Theres also you get these reports from closed doors meeting of kelly ripping into ted cruz. Ted cruz circulating through an outside group a sort of petition to stand against some house republicans. It is not good for the party. Im unsure and unclear as to where the party goes after this. Assuming they do some kind of magical dance that gets the Government Back open and ensures we dont go into an economic calamity, how much power does the tea party have, moderates, Speaker Boehner have. I do find your concern for the future of the Republican Party moving. What happened, this is the same dynamic that for the last four years in particular but longer than that, every time this happens we have another conversation about how is this not going to happen again. Its going to keep happening. You think the cycle continues. Shape of the Republican Party, which plays out whenever theres a decision like this fracture. The question comes from where are the disrupters in the Republican Party who are going to say. We keep hearing about the group of moderates. Peter king. Where are those people. They need to speak up and speak out. If you follow the hastert rule technically, right, if there is a majority of the majority of republican moderates who will step up and let the vote go forward, we could end this mess. Thats the other part of this Denny Hastert what rule . The hastert rule you need 218 votes. Period. Exactly. He says there is no hastert rule. That has been sort of the organizing principle here. I dont know. I think Denny Hastert is playing some damn game. I think there is a hastert rule. You think hes walk it back. Everyone understood his rule to have been. He doesnt want to have his blood on this. Dont put my rule in this. Unless you were about to get yourself into a catastrophe and you didnt enforce it. Now its become a little more rule. Jonathan, let me ask you a question to play devils advocate for a moment. Does this republican argument they want to compromise and sit down and talk and passing business to help the needyest, as it were. Does that end up working for them nationally at all . Setting asides the conservative districts it doesnt matter what reality is. Nationally in terms of polling, its going to factor into how much people give in the end, does that hold any water . Does that argument work . It will help with low information voters. It will give a message to political reporters who want a straight line, who want to say this party says this, that party says that, im not saying who is right. The white house message is pretty clear. If youre really concerned about the government being opened, reopen the government and we can have a debate about obama care. Then the republican argument is, no. We need to force by threat of harm to the country to force you to come to this issue you wouldnt otherwise agree with us on. They dont want to make their actual argument so they want to boil it down to a sound bite. Can it work . A little bit. But they are not winning in the polls. They are losing in the polls. Most of the republicans knew they were going to lose in the polls. Karen, paul ryan has said perhaps huberistically he thinks democrats are going to cave with debt ceiling negotiations. Im not convinced president obama is going to do any negotiating after his scorched it wasnt scorched after he got got in 2011. Also this is fundamentally were having an argument over the role of government in our lives and whether or not you believe theres a role for government and what that role should be. Its pretty disgusting republicans are pitting kids for head start, kids going to nih for cancer treatment. Thats not what this country is about. The longer term hit the party will take, they should be ashamed of themselves. They are incompetent, they cannot govern. Any time they govern they are overrun by ideology. See it in states with republican leadership, all about taking womens rights away, gay rights away. This is what they do. I think the thing that is so i just cant what about the president saying im not going to negotiate does he not understand. Do we need to translate it into a different language . Do we need to write it out for him . Its not happening. You talk to somebody like nancy pelosi and shes just exami exasperated. They do this, that, satisfy the base, give them a vote, pass legislation. She gets so frustrated. At the white house now they are pretty resolute. They really see this as a fundamental very important principle that one faction of one party of one branch of government cannot impose its will on policy and take away a policy thats been approved and signed. And law. And law in effect. Jonathan, let me ask you as far as this thing is shaking out and ending, to some degree this is going to be theater, paraphrasing what was said earlier, a dance done, a resolution come to, it will have the veneer of compromise. Yet because the president has been so resolute, it seems he cant offer them any kind of consolation whatsoever because then it sets a historical precedent on negotiating over the debt ceiling. I asked last night. The president can give them face saving mechanism but not until they agree to put the gun down. I wonder how that will work. It seems they wont put the gun down until the concession is made. The white houses position, we will give you something we would have given you anyway. Thats what they did in the spring. Democrats must pass a budget in the senate. Well, we want to pass a budget in the senate. This wasnt a concession, which it really wasnt. The problem with that. The problem with that is republicans held that up as a concession. We won something. Lets win something next time. You cant let the republicans be in the position of saying we won something taking the white house hostage. The white house feels correctly they need to stop the cycle now before it gets embedded in the fabric of the regular way of doing business. Eventually the sides wont agree on the ransom and the United States will default. They wont give up until they win something. Even pretend to win something is problematic by that logic. Before we go, the budget were working off of, the Senate Budget is lower than paul ryans original budget. To say the republicans havent gotten anything, the goalposts have moved far right on this. Thats absolutely right. Sequestration was a big win republicans won in 2011. Now, the white house thought that would be leverage on them but its not at all. I think if the white house hangs on longer and longer, maybe cracks will open wider within the Republican Party. I dont think republicans really want to carry out the cuts they are implying in their budget. They havent been able to pass any bills that actually take these top line numbers and put them into Effect Program by program. I think if you get into next year, youll see republicans trying to undo this. Right now they are trying to make that a concession to the democrats. But i think if they hold on without a deal, it will become something both parties maybe they will enact the cuts and pass a series of bills, mini bills after the cuts to restore the funding which seems to be their current modus operandi. New York Magazine jonathan chat, thank you as always. Details emerging about the woman behind the deadly car chase that shook washington. The next on miriam carey next on now. [ female announcer ] its simple physics. A body at rest tends to stay at rest. While a body in motion tends to stay in motion. Staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. But if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. Prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. Because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. Plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. Celebrex can be taken with or without food. And its not a narcotic. You and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. All prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. They all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. This chance increases if you have Heart Disease or risk factors such as high Blood Pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. Nsaids, like celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions, or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers, which can occur without warning and may cause death. Patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. Dont take celebrex if you have bleeding in the stomach or intestine, or had an asthma attack, hives, other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. Get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor your medical history. And find an Arthritis Treatment for you. Visit celebrex. Com and ask your doctor about celebrex. For a body in motion. Car chase put the Capital Building on lockdown and left the driver in the chase dead. It all started around 2 15 p. M. When 34yearold dental hygienist miriam carey struck a barrier at the security checkpoint. She took off towards the capital at speeds of up to 80 miles per hour. Secret service and Capitol Police were able to corner the car in front of the capital at which point carey backed away, struck a police car and crashed into another barrier. Details are unclear as to what happened next. According to reports carey exited her car and shots were fired. Miriam carey was pronounced dead thursday afternoon. Reports indicate she was not armed. Her 1yearold child was also in the car but remains unharmed. At this point careys motive is unknown. Family members do not know why she was in washington. Reports indicate she was let go from her job as a dental hygienist last year because of trouble with other employees. According to her mother she suffered from postpartum depression. Sobering reminders washington is and will remain a target. Such was the case over a decade ago when in the wake of september 11th the beltway was terrorized by deadly sniper attacks. A new film about the sniper sheds an eerie light of that part of history. Well talk with the star just ahead. Has its ups and downs. Seasonal. Doesnt begin to describe it. My cashflow can literally change with the weather. Anything that gives me some breathing room makes a big difference. The plum card from American Express gives your business flexibility. Get 1. 5 discount for paying early, or up to 60 days to pay without interest, or both each month. Im Nelson Gutierrez and im a member of the smarter money. This is what membership is. This is what membership does. As republican governors weve outsourced our brand to d. C. Too long. Were taking it back. Governor bobby jindal may be trying to reclaim the brand with opposition to the Health Care Law but many of his fellow governors kind of like it. Last month pennsylvania governor tom corbett became the tenth to back under the Affordable Care act. The reason . Its a really good idea. According to the atlantic theres only one republican incumbent in a state that went for obama despite federally funded medicaid, indeed primary to the obama care rage plaguing Washington Republicans things are going more smoothly for governors who have supported parts of the Affordable Care act. Michigan Governor Rick Snyder served from a 4 point deficit to 8 point lead in his reelection bid after campaigning on medicate expansion. In deep red states like georgia where governor nathan diehl opposes, 60 support Medicaid Expansion. Unsurprisingly this fact doesnt sit too well with rush limbaugh. The people depending on liberals are still living miserable lives. Nothing changes. And no matter what they get and no matter what they do it still isnt enough because it never works. As the point of fact it is the states opting out of liberal programs that are ensuring their poorest residents live miserable lives. As a recent New York Times article opponents out more than 8 Million People will be left without health care in the states that choose to reject the provisions of the Affordable Care act. In total 26 states, mostly controlled by republicans, are refusing to expand medicaid coverage for their constituents. The implications for this ideological purity are dire. According to the times, twothirds of poor, uninsured blacks and single mother and half uninsured low wage workers in this country live in those states. Eugene, we have talked about this in sort of the abstract. Now its real. You have people that are so poor they dont qualify for the subsidies and should be on medicaid but Capital Access it. This is concrete. Number one, republicans are arguing obama care isnt even going to help as many people as he said. Theres going to be 30 Million People are not covered. Well, 8 million of those are not covered because republican governors wont expand medicaim. The state that jumps off the map to me is texas. Thats going to be really interesting. That state is changing demographically. Democrats are putting a lot of money and effort into texas. Wont bear fruit the next election. If youre wendy davis this is the thing that can speed that up. Rick perry, the state that is number one in lack of health insurance, its like one out of four people in texas has no health insurance, this is going to matter in that state. The numbers on the republican governors and states that obama won, who have been either helped or hurt by Medicaid Expansion is pretty telling. We talk a lot about the future of the Republican Party. One area where there is perhaps a glimmer of hope is in the state houses where republicans are governors and have to compromise and actually run their state governments. They cant just shut things down when they dont like things unless they are scott walker who is happy to shut things down. Nonetheless is that a point for the Republican Party are they going to absorb. Theres two kinds of governors, corbetts and snyders. Then places like mississippi who are like a lot of house members, hooz main concern is the republican primary. Thats true of texas for now, too. Any texas politician is thinking ted cruz won his primary by running to the right of everybody. I cant let anybody get to my right. That may change. Different stays. Its irony some of the poorest people in the country live in states where the only vote that matters are republican. You talk to tea party, they say get your government paws off my medicare not understanding thats a federal program. Medicaid, people next door are qualifying for medicaid and getting basic health insurance. That becomes a real proposition and not ideological far right versus middle right. Electing governors of mississippi, texas, are very conservative. They are not necessarily confused. Why did jan brewer. Arizona is different, its a swing state. In all these states the demographics, shifting demographics, in a state like mississippi. Again, this is the message to that obama electorate, if you turn out, that is how you leverage your power. If africanamericans and latinos and women and young voters would turn out in these off year elections, mid turnpike, state elections thats how they leverage power. Thats how you say to a republican governor we Want Health Care and were going to hold you accountable for not bringing health care to this state. Demographics arent something that turn overnight. In a state like texas or in a state like arizona, some of these states, thats where its really starting to matter and thats part of whats freaking out the Republican Party. These people are now registered to vote and actually voting. Well stop that. Lets just say, i do think theres a right side versus wrong side of history thing going on. Of course. They have made it such a banner issue for the party. I think some people in some republican circles understand this program could end up being actually very popular with the American Public in the long run. I think thats the urgency of stopping it now. There are republicans that do understand the demographic changes taking place. Karl rove is one of them. He like all republicans officially says i hate obama care, but he understands that the country is changing. Hes been trying to convince the majority to listen to him to no avail. As were talking about races, for denizens who follow it closely. The governors race, breathe a sigh, whatever it is. Here you see the chickens quite literally coming home to roost for cuccinelli, mcauliffe according to a hampton poll running 42 , cuccinelli at 37 . In that state 294,000 federal employees are currently furloughed and not receiving any assistance. We are actually speaking of deals to prevent Government Employees from not getting paychecks, that is president obama and Vice President biden taking a stroll somewhere. Im not sure where. Perhaps someone can tell me. I dont know. An undisclosed stroll. A stroll at an undisclosed location somewhere. Perhaps i dont know what that is about, eugene. I do know this will be parsed in all likelihood. This stroll is going to somehow be used as leverage, i think, with republicans. It looks like either on the white house grounds or like jackson place, which is across by Lafayette Park it what it looks like to me. Hes leaving the grounds of the white house. It could be one of those streets running for a stroll. It could be he may be going to talk to someone. Im not sure. Republicans are going to charge he was strolling toward a golf course somewhere. There is no doubt this will be used in political football. To go back to our earlier point, eugene in terms of the state next door to where the president is polling now. Ken cuccinelli made it another. Again, he walked under this banner of appealing obama care, finally a party thats taken a hard line. Now he cant actually support the Government Shutdown because its devastating workers in the state. No, he cant. This was always going to be a tight race. Terry mcauliffe, many people say its not the ideal democratic candidate for governor. I think hes run a pretty good campaign. Ken cuccinelli is very far to the right. This is going to be close. This could tip it. The shutdown and republicans bearing responsibility for the shutdown is going to have a huge impact i think in northern virginia. Puts him at odds with his party nationally. Absolutely. On the subject of health care, remember, the other major Demographic Group terry is winning with is women. In large measure women look at health care being a woman, not a preexisting condition, thats a good thing. Or Bob Mcdonnell has done in terms of reproductive freedoms thinking maybe its not a good idea to elect another republican governor. Two candidates with huge problems. In a situation like that, really unappealing choice theres this National Tide thats turned hard against cuccinelli. Nobody is going to the polls saying i love these guys. Let me be clear. People might not think mcauliffe is a great but hes not trying to ban certain couples from having certain types of sex. Not forcing women to have an ultrasound in order to have so i mean there are some extremes that cuccinelli bought into hes paying for now. Cuccinelli felt he was on his way to escaping some of that. Sort of had this compassionate conservative brand. He had this ad he freed a guy from prison. This swept all that away. Part of being compassionate is caring about the fate of the 300,000 workers no longer making paychecks in your state. Okay. We have to take a break. When we come back Tropical Storm karen bears down on the gulf and governors along the coast declare states of emergency. Fema is recalling furloughed workers. While the storm reminds us of devastating potential of hurricane season, it reminds the country why exactly they need the government. Well explain on now. [ male announcer ] this is claira. To prove to you that aleve is the better choice for her, shes agreed to give it up. Thats today . [ male announcer ] well be with her all day to see how it goes. [ claira ] after the deliveries, i was okay. Now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again. More pills . Seriously . Seriously. [ groans ] all these stops to take more pills can be a pain. Can i get my aleve back . For my pain, i want my aleve. [ male announcer ] look for the easyopen red arthritis cap. Are you flo . Yes. Is this the thing you gave my husband . Well, yeah, yes. The name your price tool. You tell us the price you want to pay, and we give you a range of options to choose from. Careful, though that kind of power can go to your head. That explains a lot. Yo, buddy i got this. Gimme one, gimme one, gimme one the power of the name your price tool. Only from progressive. How is the economy doing . Its hard to tell with no monthly jobs report, another casualty of the Government Shutdown as the bureau of labor statistics is down to just three employees from its usual 2,400. Theres no pay for the bureau employees. Some of the 800,000 plus government workers who have seen their lives upended by the absence of a salary. Flu season is approaching of its hard to track its virulence, because 9,000 of cdcs 13,000 employees are on furlough. Meanwhile fda will cease most of its efforts on food safety with most of its workforce off the job. 9 million poor americans who rely on government nutrition programs could see their assistance cut off by the shutdown. Veterans already facing a hefty backlog could wait even longer to receive their benefits. Yesterday we were also reminded Capitol Hill Police officers are currently working without pay. As republicans continue their ludicrous attempt to fund the government with a series of 16 piecemeal bills, they are only now beginning to realize just how many Government Services are, indeed, essential. Upon realizing that shutting down the government cuts off funding for children with cancer, the gop crafted a bill to Fund Children with cancer. And despite the studied nonshall answer of many conservatives in the face of the shutdown, there is a question what happens if a hurricane comes during the shutdown. With Tropical Storm karen projected to make landfall in the Florida Panhandle on sunday, it turns out we may need furloughed fema workers after all to coordinate the disaster response. Fema has begun to recall currently furloughed employees necessary to serve functions of the agency that protect life and property as they prepare for potential landfall for Tropical Storm karen. Finally and most importantly, what about the rest of those furloughed government workers . The americans who have endured a pay freeze for three years and have now seen their paychecks cut off . No, i dont think they should get that back pay, frankly. I really dont. Im sick and tired of a massive bloated federal beaurocracy living on our backs and taking money out of us, a lot more money than most of us earn in the private sector, then getting a furlough and money back at the end of it. Im not for that. I want to punish these people. So much for compassionate conservatism. Coming up inside the mind of the beltway sniper well talk with Isaiah Washington and his new film and what it took to play the part just ahead. S. Paws off, pal. [ female announcer ] new charmin ultra soft is so soft, you can actually see the softness with our new comfort cushions. Plus you can use up to four times less. Enjoy the go with new charmin ultra soft. Ive got a nice long life ahead. Big plans. So when i found out medicare doesnt pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options. 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We love to travel and theres so much more to see. So we found a plan that can travel with us. Anywhere in the country. [ male announcer ] join the millions of people who have already enrolled in the only Medicare Supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an Organization Serving the needs of people 50 and over for generations. Remember, all Medicare Supplement insurance plans help cover what medicare doesnt pay. And could save you in outofpocket medical costs. Call now to request your free decision guide. And learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now and down the road. I have a lifetime of experience. So i know how important that is. You really love, what would you do . [ woman ] id be a writer. [ man ] id be a baker. [ woman ] i wanna be a pie maker. [ man ] i wanna be a pilot. [ woman ] id be an architect. What if i told you someone could pay you and what if that person were you . When you think about it, isnt that what retirement should be, paying ourselves to do what we love . For three weeks in october 2002, the beltway was paralyzed by fear. A pair of snipers went on a random killing spree until finally authorities because the up with them. Tonight in the washington, d. C. Area life begins again after three weeks of death, fear, rage, and 24 7 reminders that a sniper was on the loose. A new film tells the story behind John Allen Mohammed and lee malvos reign of terror. Well talk with Isaiah Washington next. The recent spate of violence including the deadly shooting at the capital and the marine yard. The beltway sniper put the city and surrounding areas on lockdown. October 2002, just one year after the september 11th attacks, 41yearold John Mohammed and 17yearold lee malvo killed seven people from a chevy caprice. The killers were finally apprehended at a rest stop in maryland, though the tragedy and darkness of the moment continue to haunt our national memory. In a chilling new film about the attack Alexander Moore reminds us what happened and examines the relationship between the two killers. In the role of John MohammedIsaiah Washington plays the mastermind behind the killing spree. The film uncovers the roots of mohammeds psychosis and how he took the impressionable malvo on a deadly journey which would end his life and put the teenager in jail for the rest of his life. This used to be my neighborhood, you know. I used to live here. People used to live here. Real people, i thought. Everybody turned into ghosts. Its like i didnt exist anymore. Not everybody. Some of them turned out to be vampires. Joining us actor and star of blue caprice Isaiah Washington. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you for inviting me. We unfortunately talk a lot these days about what lurks in the mind of someone who is violent, who is a killer, who commits mass murder. I wonder as someone who played John Mohammed in this film what you learned in terms of his mind and how you got into that character. Well, unfortunately i havent had the dubious honor to portray John Mohammed, in the film im portraying a character named john allen. How i got into that mind was following directions of rfi and explicit directions of my wonderful genius director. We made a movie about a toxic fatherson relationship inspired by the actual events of the actual John Allen Mohammed and the actual individual that is now incarcerated lee malvo. Nowhere in the film do we mention those last names. The character portrayed is only called lee. You dont hear his name in the film. My character is only called john once in the entire film. Thats what the film is about. Its a psychological thriller inspired by some horrific events that unfortunately addresses the still continued cultural violence in america. Isaiah, i apologize for making the presumption that this would be audiences would draw a parallel line to what happened in washington, but the facts remain the facts and a lot of them are in the film. Given that, i wonder when you talk about people who have violent tendencies, there was probably some preparation you underwent to play this role or was it simply following the directions of the maker of the film . Absolutely. I wasnt interested in playing a killer. I was interested in trying to find a human being and discover what the genesis would be before that happened. I didnt think that the events would be appropriate to be exploited in any way, which it isnt in the film. I didnt think the actual events were all aware of needed to be sensationaliz sensationalized, which it wasnt in any way. I was only interested in taking this horrific journey with the director, psychologically for myself to find out possibly, from his storytelling, what could have pushed these individuals to do what they we ultimately know they did. I think its always interesting to go back in town. Its always interesting to see a sound bite or heavy rotation of the actual incident. I was very interested to see who this man potentially was before this diabolical plan was put in place. Im very proud to sit here and know that film blue caprice exceeded my expectation and apparently getting a lot of attention down here in america while im up here in canada. So im very enlarged by that. You know, eugene, we talk a lot about the human as isaiah points out, the human side of people who are later seen as monsters. Its an important thing not to forget. Its also difficult. When tragedy happens, its hard for the public to reconcile someones humanity with inhumane acts. We meet the person who is doing monstrous things when he or she is doing monstrous things and forget there was a before. I just had a question. Isaiah, this is gene robinson. What was the moment, was there a moment . How did this transformation occur in the life of the character you play . It was really interesting. It started with two sources that Alexander Morris wanted me to read. I got the call so to speak spiritually speaking, the film followed me in august. The next thing i know we were having a readthrough in new york september 12th, 2011. I didnt have a lot of time to go through the usual processes as most akers do to do a lot of research. I only had two sources, notes from underground and another. He was insistent i read both. I found out later and admitted to alexander that i couldnt get through the first book, after i read scared silent to get a mustard seed idea how to get a handle on this mindset. I would have slit my wrist. Way too painful. Same thing with writers and directors, actual human beings so toxic in their behavior and everything that led up to this darkness that we didnt want to get caught anywhere close going down that rabbit hole psychologically or put ourselves in a position where we had to defend a film because it went so far into that. Thats why we took the route we took. Basically i was operating off of a person i can relate to only. Im a father of three. Hes a father of four. I just had to imagine what would happen if whatever reasons my children were taken from me, not judging the character im playing to know probably many reasons why the children are being taken from me. Thats the only thing i could connect myself onto humanely. In fact, if youve seen the film, if you havent seen the film, the character ties the other character up to the tree, lee. You see the character in the film actually run away in the forest. That wasnt written. That was the human being in me. We did that only one take. I told the director i could only do this to this kid one time. You see me actually run away so i could go cry in the woods. They used that take because thats the only take we had. That was the only one i was going to do. It was too brutal. That was the moment, to answer your question, i realized maybe doing this film or taking this journey wasnt a good idea. But being executive producer on it and putting my name on it, i figured i had a job to do and we got it done. Blue caprice playing in select cities and everywhere on itunes and video on demand. Isaiah, thank you for your time. Ben and karen when we talk about moments of trauma in our National Collective memory, the sniper attacks in washington, whether or not this film is loosely or actually based on those events no connection at all. Just john allen, not john allen muhammad. Setting that aside, this was a different kind of attack. Obviously in terms of the violence. Go ahead, eugene. Its different, over three weeks. Determination and stalking and patience and keeping that up for three weeks. Having your head there for three weeks. It was crazy. It was also a time where there was not proliferation of police shows that we like to watch. It was trying to keep up with what was happening and why it was happening and this idea of a kind of serial killer but this person is a sharpshooter. I remember living in new york during son of sam. Once you figured out what the pattern was, it was like, okay, thats the pattern. With this, no pattern. Talking earlier, alex, for people who lived in washington just this fear, no idea where, why, when. Thats the part that challenges our humanity. One of the shootings was at my home depot. The home depot we go to all the time. So, you know we were talking before this segment began about the climate in washington at that moment and just how much fear there was. I think its actually important to revisit these moments as we talk about where we are right now with the war on terror and the sense of national security. We have been traumatized a lot in the last 10 years. Ben, ill let you tell this story. People take extraordinary precautions following great trauma, some of which may be completely acceptable and understandable. In retrospect seem a little extreme. You do wonder where we are in that trajectory right now. In washington, always been intense. New york hit hard 9 11 as was washington. A moment after 9 11 when the rest of the country started returning to normal and the rest of the country didnt. I remember being down there and seeing reporters, the spring of 02 carrying gas masks around on their daily job because you never knew when the iraquis would strike or something. A very intense climate of fear in d. C. This came at this moment. I think people assumed it was a terrorist attack. It was a kind of terror. The intensity of it at the time was incredible. I think, this was obviously horrendous at any moment but it was a crazy time. Even karen yesterday, you see how one person can throw the k ecosystem off in washington. The details are still coming out. Washington is a small town. It has a narrow corridor, if you will. Any sort of disruption to that has vast the cascade effect is immediate and far reaching. Look, i think part of living in washington, i think people to some degree accept that washington is a target. The white house would be a target. The capital would be a target. Certainly in the climate of whats been going on in washington, i think there was a lot of anxiety about what was driving this, what was going on. But also i think thats coupled with the sort of ongoing reminder that washington is a place, the president of the United States lives there. That is a person who can be a target. Thats part of what was gripping people yesterday in terms of what was happening, why is this happening. Yeah. I will say on an upbeat note, the president and Vice President are taking a walk to get a sandwich according to the latest. There they are. Thats a good thing to see after yesterday. The secret service is there to wrestle the sandwich to the ground. Should that lettuce get out of control. Thank you to karen and eugene. See you back monday at 12 00 eastern. Andrea mitchell is next. [ male announcer ] you know that family . The one whose eye for design is apparent in every detail . Whose refined taste is best characterized by the company they keep . Well. Say hello to the newest member of the family. The cadillac srx. Awarded best interior design of any luxury brand. Take advantage of this exceptional offer on the 2013 cadillac srx with premium Care Maintenance included. You raise her spirits. We tackled your shoulder pain. You make him rookie of the year. 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