these investigations, what i understood us to be talking about was ukraine and corruption. >> well, we're talking about is burisma and the 2016 election. we can agree on that. when we talk about these investigations, isn't it clear that a public statement would be important to mr. giuliani because it was politically useful to the president? >> the way i saw it is that it would be helpful. >> right. >> it would be a way of being convincing to player giuliani and also to the president that this team and ukraine is serious about fighting corruption reform that they are different and if that would be helpful in getting a more positive attitude and the white house meetings scheduled, then that would be useful. >> and that would be helpful to get that white house meeting. >> correct. >> in fact, it was a necessary condition as you understood at that point. >> i wouldn't have called it a necessary condition. and, in fact, when it became clear later that we were not able to agree on an agreement that the ukrainians were