Transcripts For KQED PBS NewsHour 20170130

Obrien all that and more on tonights pbs newshour. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by moving our economy for 160 years. Bnsf, the engine that connects us. Love me tender we can like many, but we can love only a precious few, because it is for those precious few that you have to be willing to do so very much. You dont have to do it alone. Lincoln financial helps you provide for and protect your financial future because this is what you do for people you love. Lincoln financial youre in charge. And the william and flora hewlett foundation, helping people build immeasurably better lives. Supported by the rockefeller foundation. Promoting the wellbeing of humanity around the world by building resilience and inclusive economies. More at rockefellerfoundation. Org and with the ongoing support of these institutions and individuals. This program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Woodruff were having guests join me here at the newshour anchor desk in the coming weeks. Tonight its a familiar face, our science correspondent, miles obrien. Welcome, miles. Obrien judy, its a pleasure to be here. Woodruff now, we begin with the ongoing uproar. John yang reports on the days events. Yang after a weekend of mass protests, and chaos at airports, White House Press secretary insisted its all overreaction. Weve gotta keep this in proportion folks. This was 109 people being stopped out of 325,000 over a 24 hour period. And i know that everyone likes to get where they want to get to as quick as possible and i think the government did a phenomenal job of making sure we process people through but we did so yang in any event, spicer said, its a small price to pay. We dont know when that hour we dont know when that individual crosses into our border to do us harm. And so the idea of waiting when you dont know could it be that night; could it be the next day, could it be the next week . And the president s view is im not going to wait. Yang President Trump sparked the uproar with the stroke of a pen, signing an executive order banning people from seven muslimmajority countries from entering the United States for 90 days, effective immediately. Across the country, there were protests on College Campuses and at airports. A federal judge in new york blocked the ban for people who were either already in transit or had arrived in the u. S. And in seattle today, Washington State attorney general bob ferguson announced a new lawsuit, and said hes got the support of amazon and expedia. Our view the president is not adhering to the constitution when it comes to executive action. My responsibly as attorney general is to defend rule of law in courts on behalf of the people of this state. Yang state Department Employees circulated a dissent channel memo. It warned the policy will not achieve its aim of making our country safer. And that it runs counter to core American Values. Federal judges intervened to protect foreign holders of green cards legal permanent residents. Overnight, homeland secretary secretary john kelly waived the travel ban for those people. At breakfast with Small Business leaders today, President Trump denied any problems with hiS Immigration order. We ah actually had a very good day yesterday in terms of homeland security. And some day we had to make the move and we decided to make the move. Yang he blamed chaos at airports on a Delta Air Lines computer problem, and on democrats. I noticed that Chuck Schumer yesterday with fake tears im gonna ask him who is his acting coach cause i know him very well. I dont see him as a crier if yang in tweets, the president said he did not give advance notice of the order because he didnt want to tip off wouldbe terrorists. He said if the ban were announced with a one week notice, the bad would rush into our country during that week. A number of republican senators, including marco rubio, susan collins, Lindsay Graham and john mccain criticized the order and the way it was rolled out. Former president obama weighed in today with a statement, saying he fundamentally disagrees with targeting people based on religion. He also seemed to encourage the protests, saying its exactly what we expect to see when American Values are at stake. Meanwhile, mr. Trump signed a new executive action today significantly cutting federal regulations. There will be regulation. There will be control, but it will be a normalized control where you can open your business and expand your business very easily. And that is what our country has been all about. Yang the order requires that for every new regulation proposed, two regulations must to be repealed. And, it says the net Economic Cost of new regulations must be zero. The president also announced that Lockheed Martin has cut 600 million from its next batch of f35 joint Strike Fighter planes after he criticized the cost. That obama statement is note worthy and on its way out, aides suggested the former president would give the new president what he said he was grateful to former president bush for giving him silence. But in a final press conference he said he was tempted to speak out if he saw core American Values being threatened. Turns out, he didnt wait very long. Miles . Obrien john, a couple of other interesting bits at the briefing, the reorganization of the National Security council, putting a political strategist in one to have the seessments his mr. Spacer address . Spicer defended it, he had been a naval offers though more than four decades ago. Pointed out David Axlerod occasionally sat in on some nsc meetings and said by putting a ban and giving him a seat permanently on the nsc, it was their balance to transparency. Obrien speaking of empty seat on the superior courts big announcement on that tomorrow night tell us about it. Tomorrow night just like on n the aapprentice, hell announce i it on television. Why the change . Spicer said because he wanted to. Miles. John yang at the white house, thanthank you. Woodruff in the days other news, the president S Immigration order provoked a growing backlash overseas. In iraq, members of parliament voted to demand retaliation. Under the order, iraqis are now banned from entering the u. S. And in london, britains foreign secretary said mr. Trumps planned state visit will go ahead, despite the immigration order. Ive said that its divisive, ive said that its wrong, and ive said that it stigmatizes people on the grounds of their nationality. But what i will not do is disengage from conversations with our american friends and partners in such a way as to do material damage to the interests of u. K. Citizens. Woodruff more than a Million People have petitioned against the trump visit. Obrien President Trumps pick to be secretary of state survived a key procedural vote in the senate tonight. Republicans resisted a democratic push to delay action on rex tillerson, a former exxon mobil c. E. O. Woodruff in yemen, Security Officials say a suspected u. S. Drone strike killed two alqaeda militants today. It came a day after u. S. Commandos killed three alleged leaders of alqaedas branch in yemen. 30 other people and one of the commandos died in the sunday raid. It was the first u. S. Combat death under President Trump. Obrien police in quebec city, canada are looking for a motive after a shooting at a mosque left six dead last night. A suspect is in custody. More than 50 people were in the mosque at the time of the attack. Officials say it was an act of terror, and theyre calling for unity. Normal in times of crisis that everyone will speak. We speak in the same voice of tolerance, integration and inclusion. The real challenge will be two weeks from now to continue saying this to refuse any compromise toward intolerance or exclusion. Obrien later in parliament, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau spoke directly to the more than one million in canada and said, we are with you. Woodruff the Philippines National Police Forces will no longer take part in a sweeping antidrug campaign. The crackdown began in july, when president Rodrigo Duterte took office. Since then, about 7,000 people have been killed. But the National Police chief said hes calling a halt after rogue officers kidnapped and killed a south korean businessman for money. Obrien the man accused of killing five people and wounding six at the Fort Lauderdale airport pleaded not guilty today. Esteban santiago appeared in federal court on 22 charges from the shooting this month. Authorities say he opened fire in the baggage claim area with a handgun hed stowed in a checked bag. Hed flown in from anchorage, alaska. Woodruff wall street had a rough day as the president S Immigration order depressed airline stocks. The Dow Jones Industrial average lost 122 points to fall back below 20,000. The nasdaq fell 47 points, and the s p 500 gave up 12. Obrien and, doctors in houston released former president george h. W. Bush from a houston hospital today. Hed been there for two weeks, with pneumonia. Mr. Bush is 92. His wife, barbara, now 91, was released last week from the same hospital. She was treated for bronchitis. Still to come on the newshour full analysis of the travel ban, including views from former secretary of state Madeleine Albright and kansas secretary of state kris kobach. Plus, are you addicted to your smart phone . A former google employee worries we all are. Well tell you how hes trying to change that. Woodruff as we reported earlier, President Trumps executive order barring people from certain countries sparked widespread protests and confusion over the weekend. The newshours William Brangham spent much of yesterday tracking that response, and talking with people whove been affected by the order. Brangham the arrivals gate at any airport, not just here at dulles, outside of washington, is normally a quiet scene of warm greetings and family reunions. But not this weekend. Protests erupted within hours friday and continued all weekend, after President Trump issued his sweeping executive order temporarily barring all refugees and travelers from seven majoritymuslim nations. Syrian refugees were blocked indefinitely. The president said it was crucial to keeping america safe protection of the nation from foreign terrorist entry into the United States. We all know what that means. Brangham the Trump Administration insisted again today that coverage of the problems has been overblown. But the orders did cause widespread confusion at the nations airports. Who was turned away . Who had been detained . Did having a green card mean you could enter . Customs Officials Say they had no advance warning and scrambled to adapt. An army of volunteer lawyers gathered to help families of those detained. Mariam masumi is an immigration attorney in northern virginia. No communication between any of the agencies. I think that this order was just issued without any cooperation or collaboration and its caused a lot of confusion on the part of so many agencies. Without the knowledge and whether those people are back there, we cant help. Brangham even members of Congress Said they were in the dark. Representative don beyer, a virginia democrat, was at dulles trying to find out if people being detained had access to lawyers, as a federal judge had ordered. Beyer said he couldnt even find out how many people were being held. So you, as a member of congress, cannot get an answer to how many people our government is holding here . Thats exactly correct right now. This notion of cooperation between the executive branch and the legislative branch has totally broken down. Brangham and it wasnt just democrats. Congresswoman Barbara Comstock is a republican whos long advocated for stricter vetting of immigrants. But she said this move was too broad and poorly executed. They need to go back to the drawing board on this, we should not have a ban on people coming to this country based on religion. Brangham the executive order caused problems outside the u. S. As well. With the policy issued so swiftly, ali abdi didnt know what to do. Abdi is a yale phd student originally from iran who was studying abroad. He lives in the u. S. And has a green card, and even though officials have clarified that means he can come home, hes worried about trying. There has been even changes to the way the order has been interpreted over the last 48 hours and i am very hopeful that the other side of the u. S. , which is not bigotry and racism, changes the status quo. Brangham he says people like him are not the ones to be feared. Lets see who are these people who are now banned from entering the country . There are students like me graduate students who are doing their phds, doing their masters. They were later meant to serve the American Public by teaching there by producing knowledge there. Brangham another phd student and greencard holder tried her luck getting back home on friday night. Nisrin elamin is sudanese, but shes lived in the u. S. For 20 years. Shes getting her phd at stanford, but was in sudan doing research. Her return was a homecoming like no other. I was taken to a room and i was patted down, which was quite uncomfortable because i was touched in my chest and groin area and then i was handcuffed very briefly. I started to cry, not so much because of the handcuffs, but because i felt i was going to get deported. Brangham after more than five hours at j. F. K. Airport in new york, elamin was released and told it would be best for her not to leave the u. S. Again, leaving her potentially separated from her family indefinitely. The order as it stands right now, my parents arent green card holders and they, at this point, wont be able to apply for a visa to enter the United States if they wanted to visit me. Similarly, my sister, who lives in australia and is a dual citizen, cannot apply for a visa. Three different continents, which makes me very sad, and i am hesitant to travel, which scares me a little bit. With just a stroke of a pen, peoples lives have changed completely. Brangham Zainab Chaudry is with the council on American Islamic relations. She arranged for some speakers to come to this Muslim Center in maryland to help answer peoples questions. Her group cair filed a federal lawsuit today challenging the constitutionality of the president s order. I received a phone call from a man whos not a citizen. Hes a legal permanent citizen, a l. P. R. , and his mother passed away in iran. He was advised by his attorney to not travel to iran to bury his mother because chances are he would not be able to return to the United States. We know it feeds into daeshs narrative that america is against islam. Brangham last night at his mosque in washington d. C. , Imam Talib Shareef said even american citizens in his congregation are afraid. Theyre afraid because they dont know. Theres a sense of anger right now that this is happening. Theyre saying, how could this have been allowed to happen . theyre contributing citizens, they havent done anything wrong and have no intentions of doing anything wrong. Brangham hes worried these fears could fester into anger, and stir the pot of resentment. Were now going to create enemies and were going to divide the country further. They hear significant people from the administration say were just getting started. So what does that mean . What does that mean for the citizens that share a religious label that has been targeted, what does that mean . Brangham the Trump Administration says that in time, people will see the value of this action and it will improve the nations security. Meanwhile protesters, lawyers and religious groups alike, continue to watch, warily. For the pbs newshour im William Brangham in washington, d. C woodruff now, for more on the executive order on refugees and visaholders, and changes the president ordered to the make up of the National Security council, we turn former secretary of state Madeleine Albright. She served as americas top diplomat during the clinton administration. When we spoke a short time ago, i began by asking her reaction to the Trump White House move to ban anyone coming from seven countries in the middle east and africa. Judy, im appalled because its done everything except keep america safer. I kind of looked at things thinking they made this executive action without understanding what its all about. Its unprepared, i would say, because they didnt see how the government works, they didnt really contact the various departments that are part of this homeland security, trying to figure out what would happen once you do Something Like this from the oval office. So unprepared. Then i think, also, part of the problem was they didnt understand what i say the understood intended consequences of this because the truth is the countries that have been designated are now reacting, creating more problems for us, and then banning people our people from going there, for instance. In iraq, how do we protect our troops . What about the the people who are interpreting . Then i think all of it is based on untrue facts. So i think it is a very serious problem in terms of how the whole system works. Woodruff let me take a couple of things one at a time. Theyre saying if they had let the rest of the government know what they were doing, it would have leaked and there would have been a flood of people trying to get in. They also say theyre basically only following what the Obama Administration had done a few years ago in listing countries that were the most for the United States to fear in terms of terrorism. Well, the latter is true. The latter happened wan incident coming out of iraq, they were concerned about what the facts really were, they wanted to revet some people. They didnt have enough manpower to do that, so things slowed down, so there is nothing like that that happened in the Obama Administration. I think the excuse about not letting others know, first of all, they need to understand that the government, in fact, when people trust each other, does not leak out when its an important issue. But how can you not let the departments that have something to do with executing the order not know . Because i think they were genuinely surprised by, you know, how slow it was, what happened when they detained people, what happened then when there were demonstrations against it. So im willing to say they were surprised at the reaction to it, but thats a sign of the fact they didnt understand what they were doing. Woodruff the other argument they make, secretary albright, is this will settle out, its just the hurley burly of the first few days, only 900 people they say out of hundreds of thousands of travelers over the weekend and were making too much of this. No, its not, because what its shown is the United States is not ready to deal with what the president said hes decided to do so it puts to question how the system works. Its also undermined other countries trust in what we do, trying to figure out who in the department is responsible for what. Then i think its actually a gift to those that hate us because now what has happened is i. S. I. S. Is really kind of saying, yeah, right, this is what america is like, you cant trust us. So i think they were basically completely unprepared for what they kind of unwrapped without really considering the unintended consequences, and i dont think it makes us any safer. Woodruff one of the other moves the Trump Administration made over the weekend was to announce a reorganization of the National Security council, which, in effect, appears to downgrade the role of the director of National Intelligence and also the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. They had also downgraded the role of the c. I. A. Director but now today have restored that. How do you read that move on the part of President Trump . Well, i teach about decisionmaking, so i have been thinking about this, and i think it also was not thought out and partially because weve heard a lot of stories about how the transition wasnt done very well. Ive transitioned into and done the transitioning. Its a fascinating process of turning over the crown jules when its done properly. That did not happen, so i think they did not understand how the system works and, in fact, downgrading the role of the chairman of the joint chiefs. Maybe think think they already have too many generals, but the bottom line is that person is important to be in the meetings and theyve said only when necessary by the narc security advisor. Its important to know the intelligence. Woodruff the other change steve bannon, Campaign Advisor to the president , add him to the National Security Council Attendees principals list. The argument is the Obama Administration had people like David Axlerod and others who sat in on National Security. But, you know, frankly, that is the most outrageous thing theyve done is to add somebody with an extreme ideology to those who are supposed to be making decisions based on u. S. National interests, not ideology, and its one thing to have one of the advisors come in on the occasion when an issue of domestic and foreign policy, but not to have somebody of the views of bannon we now hear to be there all the time. The troublesome part about all this is what is the circumstance around the president . Who does he listen to . And the examples weve had, whether its now with the immigration executive action or just generally is the decisionmaking process. Were not a new country, we have a decisionmaking process, and they have, in fact, developed something different. I thought the following, disruption is not a bad thing for bureaucracy. Destruction, however, is very dangerous. So what weve seen in the last week, i think, is dangerous. Woodruff quickly last question, impression of rex tillerson, the president s designee to be the next secretary of state. Well, ive met him. I think hes a very fine person. Hes been a very good c. E. O. Of exxon. The question is how hes going to operate within this particular setup, how hes going to work two the state department where a top group of people have left who are some of the operational people, and then how is he going to define what the roles of the state department is . Woodruff Madeleine Albright, former secretary of state, thank you for talking with us. Great to be with you. Thank you. Obrien we get a different point of view, i spoke a short while ago to kansas secretary of state kris kobach. He was a top adviser to mr. Trump during his president ial campaign and transition process. I began by asking him whether the u. S. Is safer now as a result of the white house ban. These seven countries are the hotbed of terrorism, include place where is i. S. I. S. Controls foreign territory and place where is people are coming in to receive terrorist training and being pushed out to carry out acts of terrorism across europe, perhaps in the United States and elsewhere, and so, absolutely, it makes sense to put a temporary bar on People Holding those passports from coming into the United States. Also another really important part of this executive order was the reviewing our Refugee Program also, putting that on hold because we have huge problems with terrorists abusing the Refugee Program. Since the 1990s, there have been 18 major terrorists who have either committed acts of terror or names you would recognize who got into our Refugee Program. The blind shake, came into the Refugee Program. The two Boston Marathon bombers came into the United States through the rothenberg and gonzales program. The biology green terrorist, Refugee Program were a very generous nation, give asylum and allow in more refugee than anyone on the planet but well watch how we screen people because too many people are fraudulently coming into the United States. Obrien no refugees from those particular countries are implicated in the attacks. Were the wrong countries picked . The bowling green, kentucky, i believe those were from iraq. The geographical focus of where the terrorists are active changes with time, right, so al quaida wasnt necessarily active in the exact same countries now. Somalia has become much more active as a place where terrorist training and activity occurs, so it only makes sense that the seven countries or ten countries or however many were most interested in might change over time as the facts on the ground change. Obrien a practical question. Somalia, if youre trying to do extreme vetting of someone from so mallia how do you do that for a person who comes out of a country like that . Thats a great question. Lets take for example someone coming in as a refugee. They say they have a credible fear of persecution, thats the Legal Standard in that home country. If the home country doesnt even have a functioning government, you dont have any police departments, you dont have any centralized database of records, you may not have any way of verifying anything that this person is saying, and right now, in the Refugee Program for the past, you know, ten years or so, there has been a sort of get to yes mentality, take the intending refugees word for it. I think we have to be much stricter and say we need some proof or evidence that your story is true because there are so many cases we learn about after the fact where the refugee story was completely untrue. Obrien seems like that would be difficult to come up with any kind of documentation in that situation. It is. It may be. Some republicans on the hill are expressing concerns about documentation. Senator mccain says it fits into the i. S. I. S. Narrative, in essence, that the propaganda that they spew out is that america is antimuslim and this fits into that narrative well. If the real concern, the real threat is homegrown terrorism, incited by the internet, by twitter, by facebook, if thats the real threat, havent we made ourselves less safer by adding to this i. S. I. S. Narrative . I dont think so at all. We as a nation can walk and chew game at the same time, youre absolutely right, homegrown terrorism is a threat but also imported terrorism where theyre trained overseas and sent to the United States to kill americans. So we have to do both, no reason we cant. This is the best way to put enhanced screening on people seeking to come into the United States, the best way to protect the American Public and, remember, thats the first and highest purpose of the United States government is to protect american citizens. We are not facing invasion from a conventional army anytime soon but we are facing individual acts of terrorism and many of those individuals come in across our border through a port of entry, and we owe it to the American People, the u. S. Government owes it to the American People to be very cautious in allowing someone in from these regions of the world where we know i. S. I. S. Is active and there is active terrorist activity and training going on. Is it possible, though, weve given i. S. I. S. A case in point for their argument that the u. S. Is antimuslim . I dont think so. You know, i hear the argument made that this executive order is antimuslim, and it seems to me that thats clearly false. I mean, its based on the country of origin. So if youre an atheist, a christian, a jew coming from one of these countries, you will be subject to the same bar on entry as a muslim coming from these countries. Furthermore, youve got about 40 additional countries in the world that are majority muslim and not affected by this executive order. Clearly on its face it is not antimuslim, it is a geographic based action to protect america from people coming from dangerous places in the world. It is a geographic ban, not in any way a religious ban. Obrien okay, but there is a religious component to this. Christians, of course, are specifically singled out for priority. Let me ask you, you have teach or have taught constitutional law. How does this square with the constitution . You know, im your student for a moment. Teach me about the constitution and how this jibes with what the Founding Fathers were thinking. Okay. Well, first of all, no one who is outside of the United States and is not a United States citizen has a constitutional right to enter United States. Ive heard some people who are crit, of the president s executive order argue its unconstitutional. Thats not correct. There is no constitutional right to enter the United States. Even if you have been in the United States in the past you have no constitutional right to come back in. Second thing is the congress has the authority to it has whats called Plenary Authority to pass laws relating to immigration, it has the first and highest authority to pass the laws andtite 8 section 1182f gives the president the discretion that if he feels the entry of alien of class of aliens will be detrimental to the National Interests to have the United States, he can exclude those individuals, and there are similar statutes going all the way back to the beginning in 1789, the alien acts with George Washington mad the authority to exclude or remove anyone who was a National Security threat which back then, George Washington. So the president is on solid ground. People may quibble with the politics, but in the National Security of the United States these are a win and americans will be supportive. Obrien kris kobach, thank you very much. My pleasure. Obrien in iraq, the ban hit one group of people particularly hard interpreters and other staff who assisted American Forces over the last 14 years of conflict there. They are eligible to apply for a special visa program to emigrate here. But, one former interpreter, and his family, find their plans to move here now in doubt. Special correspondent jane furguson reports from northern iraq. Reporter after seven years working with the u. S. Military, Abdul Hamid Abdul ghani has plenty of souvenirs. He proudly shows us military coins given to him by u. S. Commanders in iraq. This one was given to me by general petraeus. Reporter as an iraqi fluent in english, he was thrilled to get a job working with american troops in 2003 as a translator. He dreamt of living in the u. S. One day. After lengthy vetting, including background checks, fingerprinting and extensive interviews, that day was almost at hand. Ghani, his wife and three children were supposed to start a new life in san diego next week. They would be admitted to the u. S. On a special immigrant visa, recognizing the work he had done for american soldiers. But yesterday he got an email saying those plans had been cancelled. My bags are ready, they are all packed. I almost have nothing here now. My life is destroyed, i can put it that way, its totally destroyed. Reporter President Trumps executive order placed a 90day block on visas for iraqis to visit the u. S. Even if that changes thereafter, abdul hamids visa requires he enter the u. S. Before the end of february. How can the president of the United States do such a thing, reporter the work abdul hamid did for the military has placed him in danger. In todays iraq, having helped americans chase down suspected terrorists is a risky reputation to have. His wife is frightened. We are not safe here. Especially he is work from with the americans and he threatened from terrorists. Reporter she is also concerned for their eldest child. Tariq is 12 and has down syndrome. His parents had hoped to find better Specialist Care for him in the u. S. Its not just ordinary iraqis who are devastated by the news of a visa ban. Parliamentarians in baghdad are angry, and calling for a strong response, escalating the diplomatic crisis. Iraqi lawmakers voted today to ban visas for americans for 90 days. While the measure has not yet been approved by the entire government, it would affect the large numbers of American Contract support staff aiding the American Military in iraq right now, who are fighting a crucial battle against isis. The ghanis are still not sure whether their plans to move to the us are impossible now. Have you told the kids . Do they understand . I, i havent told them that we are not going yet. I cannot really look at them in the eye and tell them hey we are not going. Because they have really high hopes, you know . Reporter so their bags remain packed, ready for a future that now seems much less certain. For the pbs newshour, im Jane Ferguson in dohuk, iraq. Woodruff back in this country, President TrumpS Immigration order has drawn deep divisions among lawmakers. Elected officials have voiced both support and condemnation, while a number are yet to weigh in. Here to help us understand the lay of the land, our politics monday team, amy walter of the Cook Political Report and tamara keith of npr. Welcome to both of you. Its been such a quiet week. But i whought we would come together anyway. So thiS Immigration order we have been talking about, a policy move, serious consequences, but also something President Trump talked about during the campaign, said he was going to move on immigration. The public reaction is interesting. A pew poll out earlier this month showed by 48 to 42 people supported this. This is a quinnipiac poll that came out earlier this month and said specifically supporters suppose suspending immigration from terrorprone areas even if it means turning away refugees, 48 approve. As you know, judy, the world we live in now, not surprisingly, 72 of republicans supported it, only 24 of democrats said they supported it and independents closely divided and such we have the world were going to inhabit for looks like the foreseeable future. Woodruff what were watching is a very divided political action. Democrats almost universally saying this is a terrible idea, republicans divided. D. P. S. Rallying at the Supreme Court tonight, introducing legislation that will go nowhere or not even be able to be brought up on the floor, but democratic lawmakers are protesting. On the republican side, there are sort of a range of reactions. There are people who strongly support what President Trump has signed and what he is doing. There are others who are expressing concerns, and that sort of falls into two cactus. There are people who express a moral concern or a concern that action like this could actually make us less safe than more safe, could give a propaganda advantage to organizations like i. S. I. S. Thats john mccain, lindsey graham. Not Many Republican senators going that far. Most are talking more about logistical challenges. About the rollout could have been a lot better. , you know, what one senator said, this extreme vetting proposal needed more extreme vetting itself. Were so early into this next term, is there a political calculation for this . A lot are still waiting to find out how people are reacting to it. We pointed to the poll which is theory reticle. What do you think about the theory behind this 48 support. Now that weve seen it, the rollout clearly varying, not very good, once you sort of see the human cost of it, is this going to change peoples minds or are they going to hunker down more in this. As we know, politicians like to wait and watch for where the folks are going. I think its important to tams point that even those democrats who sit in really red states have come out unambiguously against donald trump, and even republicans who sit in sort of squishy, tentatively republican districts, most of them have held back and not said much. Some have come out but mostly held back. I think you are going to see the battle lines, as we saw in foul, if youre a del, you will oppose trump. If youre a republican, you will support him. Woodruff yet, tam, we see, looking at an editorial page that normally is very friendly to donald trump, the wall street journal writing today very critical critical the way its done, saying he needlessly alienated people, but goes on to say the danger is he will alienate the friends and allies at home and abroad he needs to succeed. To the journal taking a longer look at this. Right. And that gets to some to have the National Security concerns and that gets to some of the National Security concerns. National Security Experts and veterans of National Security argue this could actually put us in more danger, that there are the best allies that america has in fighting organizations like i. S. I. S. Are muslims themselves, and i think that thats getting at that, but it also is almost like a more liberal Editorial Board saying to the Obama Administration, oh, my gosh, you really could have done the rollout of obamacare better several years ago. Woodruff it reminds me, these issues are complicated. They, are an i think ill go back to the point which you brought up earlier which is elections have consequences. Donald trump the capt. Said he was going to do this the candidate said he was going to do this. A lot of people voted for donald trump the candidate. Hes now the president , and hes going through and doing this. The outrage were seeing around the country, while not surprising, also, you know, you have to remember that this is something that he promised he was going to do on the campaign trail and hes putting out in reality. What we need to do and we talked about this last week is wait and watch for the longerterm implications. Is it going to have an impact on our National Security . We dont know. There may be something linked to that. Is it going to have something to do with our diplomacy, a detrimental impact on our diplomacy . Maybe. We dont know. But its clear he said he would do it and hes implementing it. Woodruff the other thing we saw the influence of steve bannon, senior advise tore the president , we saw the president saying he wants to add steve bannon to the National Security council, principals, the people who sit in on these very important private sessions on what the country does. Steve bannon is turning out to be a major player. And when the senior stuff was announced, he was announced at the same time as the chief of staff as sort of add coequal. It was clear and clear in the inaugural address and its been clear in many of these memoranda and orders that his voice is there, his words are there. Woodruff and people watching because of this alt right narrative around breitbart. Right. He will be a very influential voice but at the end of the day its Donald Trumps name on the legislation and executive orders and the buck stops with him. Woodruff amy walter, tamera keith, thank you very much. Woodruff and a postscript i told you friday that i would interview Vice President pence tomorrow, but ill now be sitting down with him this wednesday at the white house. Obrien one billion of us own a smartphone and we know how addicting it can be. One former google employee says this is no accident indeed it is by design. And he became troubled by the relentless efforts of App Developers to keep us glued to the gadgets. So Tristan Harris founded an Organization Called time well spent. He is asking the Tech Industry to bring what he calls ethical design to its products. Newshour special correspondent cat wise has more, part of our ongoing collaboration with the atlantic. I noticed when i was at stanford there was a class called the Persuasive Technology design class, and it was a whole lab at stanford that teaches students how to apply persuasive psychology principles into technology to persuade people to use products in a certain way. So its not about giving you all this freedom, its about sucking you in to take your time. Reporter so the goal is to keep us on our devices longer, why . For any Company Whose Business Model is advertising, or engagement based advertising, meaning they care about the amount of time someone spends on the product, they make more money the more time people spend. So the game becomes how can i throw different persuasive techniques to get people to stay, to spend as long as possible, and to come back tomorrow. Reporter and its clearly working. Today, wherever we go, were inevitably surrounded by fellow citizens staring into their phones. As we usually are too. What do you think about when youre out in public, and see people on their cell phones . You know, have you ever been in a moment where youre sitting there, and you just start using your phone to do something productive . Maybe youre in the back of a car, a taxi, or youre on public transportation. Your phone is always giving you a way to spend time that can be more productive, more entertaining, or more stimulating, than reality. I often say that this puts a new choice on lifes menu thats sweeter than reality, at any and so were turning to it more and more often, we check our phones about 150 times a day. Reporter and what are the costs of that sort of constant interaction with technology, both on an individual level, and as a society . Well, i think each of us have to tune in for our own experience. What does it feel like when we check our phones 150 times a day, or what does it feel like if weve been scrolling, and had our face down, and not breathing very much when were scrolling for, say, 20 minutes. How do we feel on the inside . Reporter how do you feel on the inside . I feel like i dont feel very good after that. I feel like my anxiety goes up, i feel more concerned about what im missing, what im missing out on, who i havent gotten back to, people think im bad at getting back to them, all of this sort of psychology emerges all because of this one thing in my pocket. And weve never had a media device that literally a billion people are kind of being programmed in the same way, where so much influence is in the hands of a few technology designers. Reporter at google, harris was a so called product philosopher and helped design the gmail inbox app. First of all there was no one in the gmail team who said how can we addict people to email, there was no one who said that, that was never a goal. But you did hear conversations like should we make it buzz your phone every single time you get an email, as a design question. But the outcome of that one choice would be a billion people getting buzzed at dinners with their dates, and with their friends, and with their family, all of these billions of phones, by the product of this one choice, would be affected and interrupted all the time. Reporter and that was a conversation that you werent having . I was getting a little bit disenchanted with whether or not we were having, i thought, the bigger conversation about when email, or any product that we make, actually makes a positive impact on peoples lives, and i made kind of a slide deck manifesto, and it basically said never before in history have 50, mostly male, 20 to 35 year old designers, living in california, working at three tech companies, influenced how a billion people spend their time. Reporter this is coffee bar in san francisco, a popular hangout for highpowered techies like harris the ones whose choices can influence so many. This idea of missing something, i think that drives a lot of us. Tony robbins has a great quote, he says, i run eight companies and i have thousands of employees. What do you think the chances are that at any given moment if i check my email, something has gone wrong . Reporter so with his Organization Time well spent, harris is urging peers in the tech world to have new conversations about the best interests of consumers. We need to change the incentive. I mean i think so long as the Business Model of Technology Companies is advertising we are going to have a problem. And thats what were trying to do with time well spent, is to change the conversation from being about maximizing engagement and time, to being about maximizing net positive improvements to peoples lives. Reporter what are some examples of, you know, apps that people use on a pretty regular basis, and the ways these companies are drawing us in . Have you noticed if you ever log into twitter, as an example, theres an extra delay that you dont know how long its going to take, its between two and three seconds, where the number of new notificatios on twitter you have, so why is that there . Well, it makes that into, its called a variable schedule reward, its like a slot machine, so youre playing the slot machine, and theres a time delay and youre, in that time delay your anticipation is building, and then you get to see how many notifications i get. And so you become more addicted to checking it again the next time. Reporter it sounds like theres a lot of trickery going on here. I call it the race to the bottom of the brain stem, to get peoples attention at all costs. Lets say im youtube and ive got a certain amount of peoples attention. Whats youtubes biggest competitor, probably facebook, or take the c. E. O. Of netflix recently said that the biggest competitors to netflix are probably youtube, facebook, and sleep. Reporter sleep. Sleep, because at the end of the day theres a finite amount of time people have, and if youre not getting peoples time someone else, some other app, or some other part of someones life is going to get it. So these services are in competition with where we would want to spend our time, whether thats our sleep, or with our friends. Theres this war going on to get as much attention as possible. Reporter so tristan, tell me about how you use your phone. Well, i mean i try to use it as consciously as i can. One thing, for example, is i set it up so that i just have my in and out tools and my aspirational ways i want to spend my time on my home screen. Reporter what do you mean by in and out tools . A tool is something that you use and you never use it longer or more than you want to. For example, google maps. Like if i need directions, i dont end up scrolling through google maps for half an hour randomly. I just go in, i find where i need to go and then i go out. Reporter and these are things that really dont draw you in for long periods of time. Theres nothing on my home screen that is explicitly makes money from or wants to maximize how much time i spend. And i put all those other things inside of folders that are hidden. Reporter are people still texting you, or are your friends and colleagues, maybe theyre not texting you or trying to reach out in a way that would distract you so often . At the end of the day, the thing that dictates how someone reaches out to you, and whether they use Facebook Messenger or whatsapp or imessage isnt because theyre thinking deeply about it, its because its just the fastest and easiest thing to reach for. And so i think we have to recognize that as human beings, theres just a certain set of things were vulnerable to that do influence us. And if it buzzes right now, i would probably without even thinking about it, with you here, check it. And so if i dont want that to happen, i just have to put it away. In fact my phone just buzzed right now. And i just looked, there you go. Reporter even knowing what you know, you still picked it up. And this is the thing, that even the people in the world of persuasion we were talking about earlier, all about these tricks of how to get people to use products and to use a slot machine dynamic, whatever it is, theyll tell you that they themselves are no less vulnerable than the regular person. Because these techniques work on everybody. Its just part of being human. Obrien and thats the newshour for tonight. Im miles obrien. Woodruff and im judy woodruff. Join us online and again here tomorrow evening. For all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by lincoln financial committed to helping you take charge of your financial future. And by the alfred p. Sloan foundation. Supporting science, technology, and improved Economic Performance and Financial Literacy in the 21st century. Supported by the john d. And catherine t. Macarthur foundation. Committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. More information at macfound. Org and with the ongoing support of these institutions this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org rose welcome to the program. Tonight bill gates and Warren Buffett together for the hour. Einstein said shortly after the launch of what was then called the atomic bomb, he said, i know not with what weapons World War Three will be fought, but world war iv will be fought with stings and stones. That probability exists. Its the number one job of the president of the United States, whichever president acknowledges, to protect us from weapons of mass destruction. The intent within organizations and even a couple of nations. Its the only real cloud on america overtime well solve the ec