Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20150314

Meditation. Mindfulness is this ancient term, kind of a boring sounding term but its in my view a game changer. There are many definitions but one is the ability to know whats going on in your head right now without getting carried away by it. Rose john brennan and dan harris when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by rose additional funding provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose john brennan is the director of the Central Intelligence agency, announced last week that the agency is launching a major overhaul, one of the biggest reorganizations in the c. I. A. s 67year history, changes including new director of Digital Information and broadening technological advances. Spice and anists will be teamed together. This comes as the United States faces complex threats to National Security. I spoke with john brennan earlier today at the council on Foreign Relations here in new york city and here is that conversation. You emphasized more than once the relationship with other intelligence agencies around the world. Is that in any way a fallout from the snowden disclosures. Two points. One it reflects mostly how complex this world is and how we c. I. A. Have to rely not only on u. S. Intelligence Community Partners but we have to rely on the partners overseas because the world is a big place and as capable of c. I. A. Is, we have to make sure were able to work with the Intelligence Security services that have a lot of the eyes and ears on the ground and have the ability to be able to stop terrorists or proliferaters or others. So thats a critically component of this new world which is interconnected, one that we have to be able to rely on the partners and also its just it reflects that despite the damage caused by the disclosures, i have found that over the past two years, since i have been alt the c. I. A. , i have still a steady stream of my foreign partners who emphasize how much they want to be able to continue and build upon a relationship with the c. I. A. They see it as critical. They know that we bring to bear the insights the intelligence the technologies the capabilities as well as the approaches that they need to be able to address the many challenges they face in their area. So i do see the world being more interconnected for a variety of reasons on a technical front and also in terms of intelligence, Law Enforcement and diplomacy. Rose when you look alt the threat of terrorism today, what is it that scares you the most about it . Ive worked terrorism for a good part of my career and i think we see an evolution of the terrorist phenomenon, thats what i call it. Dealing with palestinian terrorism and even al quaida over the years, a lot of these organizations were discreet structures and elements. They tried to migrate their philosophies to others but were mostly contained organizations. We have been able to make a lot of progress against them. I. S. I. L demonstrates the worst in developments because it has basically been a phenomenon that has snowballed in terms of its resonance appeal and they were able to make Great Strides within iraq and sir. I cant roots in al quaida and iraq and branched down to syria and established the islamic caliphate. They have a fair amount of success using the technologies that are available, youtube and other things to present their narrative in ways that romanticize whats going on there. A lot of it is inconsistent with reality of iraq and syria but this phenomenon now has generated a lot of appeal. So we see boko haram inside of nigeria pledging allegiance to i. S. I. L. We see these different franchises whether it be in libya or south asia, other areas, in egypt that are trying to get on the bandwagon of this phenomenon and, so, this is a worrisome sort of Global Movement and phenomenon that really requires us to work with this broad array of Partner Services throughout the world. Rose is what is happening in tikrit the beginning of rolling back i. S. I. L in iraq . Well, i think there have been a number of things that have helped to contain the rapid spread and growth of i. S. I. L both in iraq and syria. They were on march toward baghdad and i think the Iraq Security forces and others were able to bolster the defenses. Rose how close were they in terms of on the march to go to baghdad . They were within, you know a couple dozen miles. They had sent out some of the forces to soften the iraqi forms. Thankfully, i think the iraqis were able to coalesce in the area. Now the push is to dislodge i. S. I. L from areas of iraq they have been able to take over. Tikrit is a good example. We see a combination of portions, shia militants and iraqi Security Forces and sunni tribal elements that have brought to bear the resources to push i. S. I. L out of a good part of tikrit. I think that is still going to be a rather intense battle because tikrit is an urban area. But also i. S. I. L has taken it on the chin in other areas. We look at kobani in the northern part of syria where for a couple of months i. S. I. L was pummeling that area to try to gain the victory along the syrianturkish border. Rose could this be accomplished without the support of iranians and the sheer number of their troops . Difficult to tell. Theyve brought to bear with the number of advisors and working with the coalition, the shia militia there and amassed a large enough force to push back against the i. S. I. L inroads but the Coalition Strikes that have taken place couple thousand strikes, have softened a lot of the i. S. I. L forces and disrupted they logistics networks. Although its looked upon this is an iranian directed simiia militia effort there has been tremendous efforts made by the coalition in terms of air strikes and successes. Rose the iraqi army and mosul are they fighting better . The iraqi forces melting away in areas where i. S. I. L came down, they are able to regroup and training going on and a number of iraqi forces are able to augment, the existing iraqi forces out there. The coalition is engaged in trying to strengthen the forces with training and advice. This is going going to take time. I wouldnt expect things to really turn around middle east here. I think this is going to turn around immediately here. This is going to be a long, tough fight. I. S. I. L has a lot of material, ransacked a lot of iraqi stockpiles and are willing to kill themselves in defense of some areas as well as go on the offense so this is a long add bloody fight. Rose in iraq does the combination of the iraqi forces and shia militia and the help theyre get on the ground is that enough to do the job and push into mosul with the help of american air support . I think there will be a deliberate effort on part of iraqis along with their partners to move into those areas that i. S. I. L has overrun and, so i think what needs to be done is a very careful, strategic approach so that they dont go into battle unprepared and unready in order to prevail. I think its important both from a military battlefield perspective as well as a psychological and symbolic perspective that you need to have those victories and successes against i. S. I. L. Theyre not invincible but you need to bring to bear the capabilities. Rose its also said you can never eliminate eradicate or seriously diminish their power unless youre prepared to do something about i. S. I. L in syria. And there is a combined effort. Were working with the government now in baghdad and were trying to have them make sure that they do the right thing not just on the military battlefield but also the political reforms so they can get who most of the Sunni Community involved in the fight against i. S. I. L. In syria though, we have a government that is problematic and one of the reasons why there has been this Great Attraction to the region of these foreign fighters and its the policy of this administration that assad is not really part of syrias future as we see it. Rose but do we need now for aa sad to be in power temporarily unless theres a negotiated settlement because we need them as an opposition to i. S. I. L as well . Yes, this the crisis in syria which it is both from a humanitarian standpoint and just from a countrywide standpoint is not going to be resolved on the battlefield, in my mind. We need to continue to support the elements within syria dedicated to moving assad out but there has to be a political pathway to the future. Rose do you think russia wants to be a part of that . I think russia is looking at the problems that have been created by the situation in syria. There are a lot of russian nationals that have traveled from chechnya and other areas and the russian are concerned about the flow of foreign fighters both to theater and back and i think they realize that assad is problematic. None of us russia, United States, coalition and regional states, wants to see a collapse of the government and Political Institutions in damascus. What we do want is for there to be a future of damascus that is going to bring into power a Representative Government that is going to try to address the grievances that exist throughout the country. As multiconcessional country that really deserves a government that will try to represent the people that are there. Rose you fear from a collapse of an Assad Government as to who might replace him . Thats a legitimate concern. We dont want to allow the extremist elements which in some parts of syria are ascendent now. We have the al quaida element in syria and the last thing we want to do is to allow them to march into damascus. Thats why its important to bolster the forces within the Syrian Opposition that are not extremists. Do you worry about iran and iraq in terms of what happens if, in fact, the iranians would like to have a stronger presence in iraq . Well, the iranians have clear interest because they share a border with iraq, they share quite a bloody history with rierk as well. There are the shia coreligionists from iranened in from iran inside of iraq. Iran has legitimate interest there. We want to make sure theres not iran manipulation and internal situation inside iraq that is not going to allow the iraqi people to live in a country that has more of a sense of instability than they have right now. Rose any coordination on the ground using the iraqis as a middle person. With the iranians . Rose yeah. I think there theresen alignment of some interest between ourselves and iran clearly in terms of what i. S. I. L has cone that. So we and the iranians work with the Iraqi Government and some of the terrorist through the iraqi interlocutors are advancing common interests against i. S. I. L. Rose the iranians and nuclear capability, what else it for you an essential requirement in terms of an agreement . Clearly, already aspects of Irans Nuclear program that need to be addressed and that will give we the United States as well as countries in the region and International Partners comfort that theyre not on the march to a Nuclear Weapons capability and that involves enrichment capability and what the limits are going to be in terms of what type of enrichments were going to be able to retain. Also cutting off other pathways to a nuclear weapon. Trying to make sure that you are going to have the opportunity to inspect facilities with the verification regime so that theres not going to be this breakout. And these are the arrangements, and its a multidimensional package of things that the negotiations are looking at. I might say in my experience in the government, looking out over the last six years or so as the march toward the negotiations has progressed, there has been a very intense deliberate, careful effort to try to understand all the different dimensions of the iranian Nuclear Program as well as to address all the of the areas of consideration and concern. This is not something that is being done in any happen hazard way and i must say that looking at what the United States government is doing with our partners and how this has proceeded this has been the most careful and deliberate experience ive seen as far as negotiations to come out with a result that is going to help the prospects of peace in the region and also prevent further nuclear proliferation. Rose in other words youre comfortable with an agreement that theyre working on now . I am comfortable that the parties to the negotiation on the u. S. Side are going to have minimum requirements here that were not going to reduce, that we have to have that confidence and comfort with the arrangements, again not just what iran has agreed to but allowing us over the course of the agreement to have confidence that the terms of the agreement with being upheld. Rose turning to ukraine, what else your sense of what putin is up to, and did he get involved in over his head as some have suggested . I think russia and putin clearly have Strategic Ambitions as far as the area along the western border of russia, as far as exerting russian influence in countries there, and concerned about checking what i think they perceived as a western and n. A. T. O. Influence in that area. So i think putin has gotten himself to a point where there is, i think, International Consensus about not allowing russia to continue to march in this direction. Thankfully over the last several weeks weve had a reduction in the amount of violence that is there, but i would look to mr. Putin to say how he actually is going to get himself out of this predicament where the russian economy is i think facing serious challenges as a result of sanctions and how the International Community and western nations i think are united in pursuing. Rose is it in our interest to find a way out . I think its always in our interest to find a diplomatic and peaceful way out of these items and i think its incumbent in the United States as the leader of the western and free world to help to shape this, but the countries in that area that have very serious concerns about other types of russian activities in that region need to have a very strong voice and, so we see that our partners, you know the germans and others are taking a leading role as well. We need to continue this. Rose someone in the administration once said to me they worried most of all, they lost sleep most of all over the possibility of some russian making a mistake and a kind of loose nuke idea. Is that something that causes you to lose sleep . I think in any situation where you have theres almost a game of brinksmanship as far as the various chess moves it has the botential for escalatory cycle. And there can be some devastating attack or development to provoke a reaction and a quick series of reactions to that. So whether were talking about a place like ukraine or the situation between north korea and south korea, it has the potential. So i think there must be constant issues that even though theyre simmering, this is the time to try to keep those tensions at bay. Rose how do you do that . Very active diplomacy and sometimes you need to bring to bear the various tools of power. The United States has a lot to it and sometimes sanctions and other International Type activities. But i think on these issues the United States recognizes rightly that there are not unilateral solutions and pathways here. It is important for us to work with our part fears and Gain International rose and do we include in our partners china . Absolutely. China plays a very Important Role on the world stage, increasingly so. Obviously, their economic power is critically important to a lot of, you know, countries in the world. We have regular interaction with the chinese. We are trying to make sure that, as we engage with the chinese on east asian issues, were also cognizant of the fact that the chinese are playing more of a role in various parts to have the world. They have strong commercial interests but they also realize there are geostrategic and political obligations as they a continue to move forward with the march. Rose what are their ambitions . I think they say chinas size capability and power gives it a place on the world stage that may have been different than what it was ten or 15 years ago and thats why i think theyre looking at the various superpower relationships and find a way to advance the chinese interests in the coming decade or two. A very careful strategic approach on how to expand chinas influence. Rose and consolidating power and increasing military. And keeping the chinese economic engine going. Its been decreased a bit because of the world developments but also he needs to be able to fuel his domestic engine of growth as well. Rose whats the threat from china on the cybersecurity arena . Well, if you look at nation states around the world, engagement in that Digital Domain and cyber, theres so much activity and information going on out there, so some countries will believe that any activity and digital name is okay if you advance your business and commercial interests. This is where the norms and standards of behavior in the digital environment are important and a number of discussions weve had with the chinese and others about what we think is inappropriate activity in that realm. But its not just a question of the large nation states and adversaries in certain areas. Theres just a lot of capability developing in the private Sector Companies around the world so any country can tap into the capabilities that might exist in these companies and utilize id for their purposes whether National Security, personal, political business, whatever. Rose how do you measure the tension between china and japan today . When you look at asia, you know, there is one issue out there which the north korea which is a problem. China, south korea, japan and other states with the unknown actions of kim jongun as far as where hes going to next. I think this is worrisome. There are issues that certainly divide south koreans, the chinese and the japanese. We would like to see a greater dialogue between those companies. Rose were committed to their defense, south korea, china and japan. There are reregulations and treaties that underscore how important those relations are with those countries. Rose talking about the levels of reform that are initiated, when you went to the c. I. A. I understood youre saying we would like to see the c. I. A. Do less paramilitary kinds of things. Was that true and do you still believe that . The c. I. A. Throughout the course of its history has played an Important Role in different areas and one of the areas has been in covert action. Almost every president since we stood up 68 years ago has utilized the c. I. A. Covert capabilities. I believe the c. I. A. Needs to retain the paramilitary capability, should that the chief executive officer and military need us, the c. I. A. Needs to be prepared. By concern is that the c. I. A. Has a lot of responsibilities worldwide. I want to make sure were able to address those different responsibilities cape capably across the board and not swing widely one way or the other. In the last 15 years with 9 11 with the situation in iraq and afghanistan and the counterterrorism efforts, weve had to utilize a number of paramilitary skills and capabilities working with our partners in order to address the threats we face and thankfully the c. I. A. Had that capability and experience. So its not as though im trying to diminish it. Im trying to make sure this is part of the motivation behind some of the reforms is to fulfill our responsibilities across all of the areas weve had globally. Rose c. I. A. And its analytical function and how you see the challenge of the next 15 years and how you have to change and adjust to that challenge. The world is becoming more and more challenging. Nation states are under increasing challenge and threat. More and more, we see individuals in different corners of world who are identifying with subnational groups and organizations and so just the authority of nation states and governments i think is being looked at in a different way than it did just 20 years ago and, so, this is one of the things that we really have to be able to understand and participate and work with foreign governments because if youre going to have basically a dissolution to have the nation state structure weve had for centuries its going to be even a more chaotic world. On the analysis, we have to not only help to inform policymakers about those trends and developments worldwide but analysis for c. I. A. Has taken on many more dimensions than it did when i first joined the agency in 1980. At that time c. I. A. s analytic work was really exclusively limited to the finished all source analytic products we give to the president and others. Now analysis drives so much of our activity, whether were talking about collection whether were talking about different types of operational activities or covert action, that analytic insight, taking full advantage of the intelligence we get through various means as well as taking advantage through of the increasingly rich open source environment and social media so were better able to inform our activities and policymakers. So analysis is becoming more and more of a driver of different elements to have the c. I. A. s mission. Rose how would you measure success against i. S. I. L. First of all success has to be preventing their encroachment into syria and iraq as well as working with Partner Services to identify elements cropping up in other places. But those are some milestones and i think success is going to take time, its going to take, you know years in order to further diminish and discredit not just their capabilities but also their attractiveness and appeal, and we need to expose just how murderous and psychopathic these individuals are. Rose whats the difference in bill clinton and barack obama . Who asks the better questions . Oh, boy. laughter theyre two of the most impressive individuals that i have had the opportunity to engage with. Rose having said that. laughter well, its because they had tremendous ability to absorb information, digest and also correlate it. I remember sometimes briefing president clinton on something i briefed him two or three months previously and would be briefing him and he would bring it up and i had forgotten it. Same thing with president obama. They both have voracious appetites for information. Rose president obama specifically, have you seen an evolution in how he views National Security . You were in the white house when he came in the white house, has there are been an evolution in how he assesses the threat to the United States the tools he wants to use his willingness to use the employment of force . Well, i certainly think that there has been a natural evolution. Any president who comes into office doesnt really have a good appreciation of what they will encounter during their term and, over the past six years, the president has, i think faced more to have the strategic and significant, necessary challenges than, you know, a lot of his predecessors. So i think he has gone to school. He understands the complexity. He also understands the interdependence of a number of these issues as well as the importance and the imperative of working with a lot of our partners. The United States doesnt have the unilateral ability to shape the case of world events. It has to work with a lot of our partners. So i think the president is looking at whether terrorism or ukraine or north korea or cyberissues, i think he recognizes just how complex the world is and what he has told me and the c. I. A. And the Intelligence Community is we need to continue to evolve ourselves so that were better prepared to deal with the challenges ahead of us and not just be dealing with the challenges of the 20th 20th century. Rose some argued that the c. I. A. Did not see the arab spring coming, it did not see ukraine, it did not see the rise of i. S. I. L. If those were mistakes why . You said if those were mistakes. laughter rose did you believe they were . Did you believe the c. I. A. Saw the rise of those three things as significantly as they should have . I think certainly we had identified a number of developments and trends that were leading in that direction. Whether it be in the arab spring, for years, the c. I. A. And Intelligence Community were pointing out how some of the authoritarian regimes within the middle east and the arab world were vulnerable to this type of popular reaction, but were we able to, you know, determine the forecast that there was going to with a tunisian food salesman that would self emulate and set tunisia and the arab world on fire . No. But i think the conditions were something that were identified. But it getso the point there have been so many developments recently and a lot more populous when we look at it that the traditional ways of intelligence collection may not lend themselves to giving that insight, so having somebody in a senior government position whos going to be whispering in our ears might be giving us not the right perspective. We need to have a better sense of whats happening in the streets. Thats why looking at sort of social media and other things you can maybe have a better sense of the barometric conditions in a country that are going to be more conducive to the forming of a storm. In ukraine, people say, well you didnt predict that putin was going to do this or that. Well, i think we identified what were the pros and cons and what his calculus was but quite frankly, i think putin as well as other leaders have not determined what their next chess move will be until they see their opponents chess move and they will move accordingly. So intelligence is not a panacea as far as having a crystal ball. What we need to be able to do is help policymakers understand some of the forces at play and how certain developments and actions may affect that calculus and i think thats whats important for c. I. A. , placial in this world where we have so many challenges across the board. We havent even talked about Africa Latin America cuba nigeria. This is something i think we need to stay attuned to because we have this Global Mission that requires us to have all different types of access information, human sources different types of technical capabilities, having the insight having the expertise, being able to work with individuals and the council and other parts of the private sector that we will be able to flush out our appreciation and understanding of developments. Rose john, thank you for coming. John brennan, c. I. A. applause rose dan harris is here. He is a coanchor of abc news nightline and author of the book 10 happier. He covered stories from Mass Shootings in newtown to combat in iraq and afghanistan. His most terrifying moment as journalist happened while filling in as news reader on Good Morning America. He suffered a panic attack on air in front of an audience of 5 million people. The episode led him on a journey to retrain his brain through meditation. He tells the story in his new book in paper back called 10 happier. I am pleased to have dan harris at this table. Welcome. Thank you. Im very pleased to be here. Rose an honor to have you here. Lets go back to that moment and people who dont know the story because its been so significant in your life. Yeah, i mean, it was, i would say, at that point probably the worst thing that ever happened to me and in many ways it turned in a weird and winding way turned out to be one of the best things that ever happened. I was filling in as the news reader on Good Morning America and the job is to come on and reis a series of headlines. I had tone it before and i had no reason to foresee i was overtaken by this bolt of fear and my heart was racing any lurntion seized up, my palms sweating and mind racing. I couldnt breathe and i had to quit in the middle and toss it back to the main anchors at the time diane sawyer and charlie gibson. Afterwards, i went to see a doctor to try to get to the root of what had gone wrong. I knew it was a panic attack. It was unmistackable. I went to a doctor and he asked me a series of questions to get to the bottom of the issue. One to have the questions is do you do drugs. I kind of sheepishly said, yeah i do. He leaned back in his chair and said okay, moron, mystery solved. He pointed out that even though i had my drug use was kind of sporadic at the time, it was enough to raise the level of adrenaline in my brain and prime me to have the panic attack. We talk about the drug use as well if you want but that kind of stemmed out of my career of covering war and when i came home from spending many, months in iraq and afghanistan i got depressed and did this really stupid thing which was i selfmedicated. Rose how long did it last . It lasted about two years and ended ten years ago. Rose what kind of drugs . Cocaine and ecstasy. Rose a lot . Depends on how you define a lot. It wasnt like the wolf of wall street. Rose yeah, sure. It wasnt every day and it wasnt while i was at work and definitely was not when i was on the air. I like to say i was stupid but not that stupid. Rose he knew instantly. Oh yeah. There was no further discussion. Rose and so what came out of that . Well, it isnt like a neat and tidy thing where i found out i had been a dummy and then rose but its a book. Also a book. You know what Alfred Hitchcock said, what did he say about movies, its just like life except you take the boring parts out. Rose exactly. Thats what you do with a book. But im honest about it in the book and the doctor said youve got to quit doing drugs i quit doing drugs. I went to see this doctor once or twice a week for a long time. It was actually Something Else that set me on the path, it was the panic attack and Something Else which set me on the path of finding meditation. My boss at the time peter jennings, no longer with us, sadly, he told me i was going to cover faith and spirituality for abc news. I told him i didnt want to do it because i was raised in the peoples republic of massachusetts by a pair of scientists. I did have a bar mitzvah but only for the money. Its not something i was interested in doing. laughter he said, i dont care, youre going to do it anyway. Rose yeah. As a result of that ultimately, after learning a lot about faith and making a lot of new friends, ultimately through we can go into it if you want but through a set of strange set sf circumstances i stumbled upon meditation. Rose what about religion . I spent a lot of time in mosques and mega churches. What did you get from that . Meditation . No, but the way the world works. Rose and the forces that impact the world. And the lenses of which most of our coinhabitants of the planet view the world. Rose the prism they see. Absolutely. And raised as i was in the northeast and, you know, i dont think i had had a serious conversation with a person of faith in my adult life until i got this assignment. All of a sudden, i was thrust into this world where i made really good friends and saw frankly how ignorant i was. Heres what i really took from it. I saw the value of having a world view that transcends your own narrow interests which was very valuable for a young and extremely ambitious report snore and thats really an eyeopening experience to see that, you know theres something larger than you are, you know, in a sense that you are simply part of a larger something and to see that in a sense tempers your or adds to your value of appreciation. Absolutely. Theres no question about it. And what i like about meditation there are loot of things i dont like about it, but one of the things i like about it, its a way of hammering home that understanding into yourselves daily. That appeals to me. That really appeals to me. Its a very practical thing to do to provide you with perspective. Thats one of the many reasons why. Rose you do it about 30 minutes a day . I do. I hesitate i think there are a lot of reasons why a lot of people dont meditate. Rose you have to do it every day. People tell themselves i dont have time for this. Rose sure. I know people have proposed to you in the past maybe you should consider meditation. I dont know what your reasons are for not doing it but i suspect one is maybe i dont have the time. I think five to ten minutes a day is enough and you can start with that and tell yourself you will never do more and thats fine. Rose i tell you the question i have not been able to overcome about it. I would do it in a second and friends of mine have told me how much its meant to their life. Serious people of great accomplishment say its one of the most important things about their life and its added to their life in monumental ways. I am a worldclass napper. I dont know what it does for me that napping doesnt. A lot. Rose what is it . First of all, convert me. laughter i am strongly pronap. Like you on a couple of days a week i anchor a morning show. I need naps. I also have a newborn at home and i like his model of sleeping. I try to do less crying. Im not trying to say you shouldnt nap, i just think you should add this on top of it. There are a couple of reasons it will help. First of all, the word meditation is like the word sports. It describes a whole variety of activities. When im talking about meditation im talking about mindfulness meditation. Rose mindfulness meditation . What is that . Ill explain it. Rose your introduction to meditation. Ready class . First big benefit is your ability to focus. So we live in an era thats been described as the info blitzkrieg where were besieged by tweets and texts and status updates. Rose information overload. Absolutely. So what youre doing in meditation, most meditation is youre trying to focus on one thing and then youre going to get lost, start thinking about what will i have for lunch, why did i say that dumb thing to my boss, what about dances with wolves in 1991 and so on. Youre focusing, exercising the focus muscle in your brain and thats very useful in an era where your attention is fractured and besieged all the time. Benefit number two is mindfulness. Mindfulness is this ancient boringsounding term but in my view a game changer. There are many definition bus one is the ability to know whats going on in your head right now without getting carried away by it . Without getting carried away by it. The ability to see whats happening in your mind without necessarily being the fish that bites the hook and gets yanked around by it. You whether youre aware have an internal charlie rose thats i amerring at you before you open your eyes and all day. It has your wanting stuff not wanting stuff, judging other people comparing making choices, many impulsive, comparing yourself to other people, thinking about yourself. My friend sam harris who also wrote a book about meditation were not related but were friends, he says when he thinks about the voice in his head, he feels like hes been kidnapped by the most boring person alive who just says the same stuff over and over again, most negligent saturday night live how are the voices in your head different than mine, whatever mine might be . I think theres a lot of similar later between everybodys voice because it tends to have a series of characteristics. One is focus on the past or the future to the detriment of the present. Its focused on you. Its largely negative and very repetitive. In mindfulness it can be kryptonite. Rose how did you come to the yofd meditation and how you found the right meditation for you and how you end up with how i tamed the voice in my head, reduced stress without losing my edge and found selfhelp that actually works. If i can say to people out there, i want to help you tame the voice in your head, reduce stress and do it all without losing your edge, im also going to help you find selfhelp that actually works send me a dollar. Bert yet, send it to me. laughter i think, first of all, the subtitle mentions selfhelp in. Some ways, thats where it starts. I had been assigned to cover religion by peter and as a consequence of that i sort of stumbled into selfhelp and i interviewed or got turned onto a guy who is a massively successful selfhelp guru. Rose what is selfhelp some. Kind of like i said before, 3 the wordmeditation describes a lot of things. Selfhelp is an illdefined term. Basically, books that help you improve yourself, develop your potential. Rose there are lots of those books out there. There are and a spectrum from very bad to only kind of bad. And i think he would spefort call himself a spiritual teacher. Anyway, i read his book and at first i thought it was irredeemable garbage. It was filled with all this grandiose language about how the book was going to create a spiritual awakening for you the reader, filled with pseudoscientific claims and he add one point even claimed he had a spiritual awakening and afterwards lived on park benches in the city of london in a state of bliss for two years. Im newt meteorologist but i think they have winter. At first i was completely unimpressed with him but then he unfurled a theory about the human condition i never heard before and his theory is we all have a voice in our head. You have an inner charlie rose that is that is in a constant conversation with you and most of us are unaware of it. This is the first person i ever heard talk about this. So i was intrigued. I went and interviewed him, as you know one of the luxuries of our job is if we read a book, are interested in the person, we interview him. So i called him up and interviewed him and asked him what do you do about the voice in your head, have you got any practical advice . And he took a breath and said he took a beat and said well, take one conscious breath. The voice in my head was saying, what the hell does that mean . And i kept pressing him with practical, actual advice for dealing with the voice in the head and he didnt have anything. It was kind of like he had pointed out that my hair was on fire and refused to give me a fire extinguisher and put me in a position of being intrigued about his theory of the human condition but i didnt know what to do next. I hung around with a lot of selfhelp gurus and i met a lot of people who argued you could get whatever you want by the power of positive thinking which is a horrible idea. And finally my then fiancee and wife and baby momma bianca said i have been listening to you talking about all this stuff and it sounds similar to what i read a couple of years ago and handed me a book by a buddhist psychiatrist. I started reading and realized all the stuff i love best about eckhart toly seemed to have been taken from buddha. Rose did you call him up and say i read that book . No. The buddhists unlike eckhart tolly have a practical suggestion fog dealing with the voice in the head and thats meditation. I didnt want to do it. I thought it was for hippies and people into cat stephens and i thought it was completely ridiculous. Rose do you know any of those. I grew up with a lot of them. My parents were hippies and made me go to yoga class when i was five years old and this is kind of like preyoga. They were early adopters and not in a good way. The yoga teacher made me take my jeans off and do the stretches in front of my Tighty Whities in front of all the other kids so that gave me an impression about all things new agey and spiritual. Then i found medication can lower Blood Pressure boost immune system and rewire the key parts of your brain that have to do with focus, compassion basic well being and then i decided to do it. And the other thing i learned rose how long did it take you to get into it . Its a more complicated question than you might imagine because the first time i did it i hated it, but i also realized it was not hippie nonsense that, in fact, it was exercise for the brain. So i had two simultaneous reactions one is this is really hard and i suck at it and two, i get why this could be really helpful and im going to keep doing it. So i resolved i was going to do five to ten minutes a day in perp toperpetuity and i stuck wit and it made a difference. Rose what difference. The key difference is this word mindfulness which i discussed before. Most of the things we do in our life that were most embarrassed about i think most of the things we do in our lives about which were the most ashamed are the result of impulsive mindless actions. Rose i agree with that. So, for me, it was what was the most mindless thing i ever did. It was going into war zones as an ambitious young guy without really thinking about the consequences, coming home, getting depressed and being inl sufficiently aware to know it and mindlessly selfmedicating with cocaine and ecstasy. I think if i had had meditation on board back then i would have avoided that. I wouldnt have abook but i would have avoided a panic attack. I have a different set of problems now but it helps me navigate a very stressful career in ways that reduce my emotional reactivity and make me calmer, a better listener, a better colleague, a better husband. Im less likely to eat the 18th cookie, im less likely to say the barbed comment to my wife that will ruin the next 48 hours of my marriage. Im more likely to look at my baby cooing than checking my email. Those are the benefits. Rose having said what you just said if in fact you did not do that ten minutes a day on the seventh day would you be more likely to be all the 1hings you just said youre not . Yes. Rose so without six days of that or two days the old dan would kick in. Yeah, i think so. Rose thats amazing. I can see it. There are times in my life where i cant meditate. Rose much better than napping. Napping breaks me down to a sense of i wake up fresh. Fresher from. If you dont sleep you will literally lose your mind. There are Significant Health benefits. Rose theres a ton of medical information about sleep and one incon trough veritable fact that we need sleep. People brag they need little sleep theyre either a tiny minority or theyre kidding themselves. Im not proposing meditation is a silver bull it. Theres a reason why i went with the title 10 happier. Rose i always wondered why you went to 10 and i assume its like that. Yeah. Just to get back to sleep i just think that when it comes to happiness im a maximalist, so i think we should pull every lever we can. Get enough sleep eat well, take the meds your doctor prescribes. Rose get love, be loved, love, all that. I think meditation which for too long many of us have rejected should be an arrow in the quiver we avail ourselves of. Rose is there any substitute for meditation . What ought to compete with meditation for the result of meditation . I dont think anything does. Personally, in my experience. Rose that would be your answer. People ask me this all the time, what about my gardening, is that meditation . What about my running, is that meditation . Im not antigardening and definitely not antirunning. I think meditation can be anything you Pay Attention to, right. Just paying attention is one of the main ingredients of meditation. I just think that you need a couple of minutes a day of formal practice in order to really get it. Rose when you say meditation what do you mean . Okay. So im talking about mindfulness meditation which is the kind of meditation thats been the focus of most scientific studies. It is simple and secular and you dont have to join a group. You dont have to wear special outfits. You dont have to believe in anything. It is derived from buddhism but has basically all the buddhist language and metaphysics stripped out. I talked to one of the tech reporters in the New York Times in fewer letters than it takes to send a tweet. So its not complicated. Sit with your spine straight and eyes closed and the second step is to focus your full attention on the feeling of your breath coming if and going out. The third step is the key. As soon as you try to do this as soon as you try to just focus on the feeling of your breath, your mind will go nuts. Its going to start wandering. Youre going to be asking yourself silly questions, doing your todo list whatever. And then you just want to notice when your mind has gotten carried away and start over and start over again and again and again and again. Every time you do that, its a bicep curl for your brain. Your are literally rewiring your brain. Its also a radical act because most of us have trouble paying attentiono the present moment. Our life is a fog. We are wrapped up in rumination about the past and projection into the future. You are happily an outlier. Rose how has this changed your life . Publishing the book or meditating . Rose take meditation first. Its made me calmer and happier. But if my wife was here, she would give you the 90 still a moron speech. I am not perfect. Rose how does that speech go . She would just list the dumb things ive done in. Rose in the last 24 hours. Or maybe 18. Rose i like her, already. She doesnt take me too seriously. Publishing the book has been really interesting because i really worried about the drug stuff. I thought that it had the potential to derail my career. And in fact my mom with whom im very close and for whom i have a great deal of respect sent me an email about four weeks before the book came out and said, dont do it. Dont publish it. Ill freaked out. I had two meetings that day, one with diane sewer and one with ben sherwood who ran the news at that time. I told them what she said. They said, we love your mom, shes wrong publish the book, weve got your back. And im glad i did. Its definitely the most important professional rose decision . Yes, and also its the best and most impactful story ive ever covered, and im not talking about the part about me, im talking about this Public Health revolution thats brewing with meditation. Its the good News Mental Health story of the century and to be able to talk about it in a way that some people have reacted to positively has been extremely gratifying. Its also, i will say humbling. You know how people get up at the oscars and say its humbling to have won an oscar . I think thats baloneyy. When i say humbling, i mean it truly. What i realized is all this concern i had about the reputational issues for me that most people dont really care about me. They find my misadventures mildly titillating. What they really want to know is what do you have for me. Rose exactly. That is humbling in a good way. I recognize what im recommending to people i have more and more faith in every day. Rose the book is called 10 happier. Finally a true story, dan Harris Actually works. Congratulations and i think selfawareness is a remarkable thing and the more that you can somehow bring to bear anything that helps you do that makes you a lot more interesting person. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Rose visit us online at pbs. Org and charlierose. Com for more episodes. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org report with Tyler Mathisen and su. Adding to a most volatile week. Two major reasons behind the markets big swing. Weather the storm. Our market monitor has a list of stocks to buy that may provide some stability for your portfolio. And getting short. When does betting against a stock go from a legitimate Investment Strategy to a down right vendetta . All that and more on nightly Business Report for friday 13th of march. Good evening, everyone and welcome. Friday the 13th lived up to its name on wall street turning into an unlucky day for stocks. The dow jones i