Transcripts For KPIX 60 Minutes 20160829

Leslie stahl Schuyler Bailar seemed to be a young woman who had it all outstanding grades, admission to harvard. For harvard. Stahl and a top spot on their Womens Swim Team. Lane 2, Schuyler Bailar stahl schuyler still swims for harvard, but hes now on the mens team. Welcomed by his classmates as an openlytransgender athlete. How different are you . If i had met you a couple of years ago and then saw you today physically . Yeah, you might not recognize me today. Stahl you look that different . I would say so, yeah. Im steve kroft. Im leslie stahl. Im bill whitaker. Im scott pelley. Those stories, tonight on 60 minutes. Reporter youre in charge. Good evening, on friday the Labor Department is expected to report about 200,000 jobs which are added in august. Next weekend, president obama will be in china for his final leadership conference. Im elaine kijano, cbs news. The ford freedom sales event is on our biggest event of the year just got better announcing zero for seventytwo across the entire lineup of ford cars, trucks and suvs. Plus, tagged vehicles now get a thousand smart bonus. Thats freedom from interest. And freedom to choose with ford. Americas best selling brand. Now get 0 financing for 72 months across the entire ford lineup, plus specially tagged vehicles get a thousand smart bonus. Pcountries thatk mewe traveled,t what is your nationality and i would always answer hispanic. So when i got my ancestry dna results it was a shocker. Im everything. Im from all nations. I would look at forms now and wonder what do i mark . Because im everything. And i marked other. Discover the story only your dna can tell. Order your kit now at ancestrydna. Com. Kroft if you like crime dramas and movies with international intrigue, then you probably have a basic understanding of Money Laundering. Its how dictators, drug dealers, corrupt politicians, and other crooks avoid getting caught by transforming their illgotten gains into assets that appear to be legitimate. They do it by moving the dirty money through a maze of dummy corporations and offshore Bank Accounts that conceal their identity and the source of the funds. And most of it would never happen without the help witting or unwitting of lawyers, accountants and incorporators, the people who actually create these Anonymous Shell Companies and help move the money. In fact, the u. S. Has become one of the most popular places in the world to do it. Last january, with the help of hidden camera footage, we showed how easy it seems to have become to conceal questionable funds from Law Enforcement and the public. You need look no further for evidence than the changing skyline of new york city, where much of the priciest Residential Real Estate has been snapped up not by individuals but by Anonymous Shell Companies with secret owners. Theres nothing illegal about it as long as the moneys legitimate, but theres no way to tell if you dont know who the real buyers are. It is one of the reasons Global Witness, a londonbased Non Profit Organization that exposes international corruption, came to new york city in 2014. It wanted to see how helpful u. S. Lawyers would be in concealing questionable funds. This hidden camera footage was shot in law firms across manhattan without the lawyers knowledge by the man in the gray coat with the german accent. Lawrence gabe so its ralph . Ralph kayser ralph kayser. Kroft ralph kayser is not his real name. Hes an investigator for Global Witness posing here as the representative of a Government Official from a poor west african country who wants to move millions of dollars in suspicious funds into the United States, and he needs the lawyers help. Ross are you gonna tell me what country and what minister this is . Kayser i cant tell you. Its one of those mineral rich countries in west africa. There are not so many. Kroft attorney gerald ross and the other lawyers were told secrecy was essential, because the african minister had amassed his fortune collecting special payments from Foreign Companies that hed helped obtain valuable mineral rights. Kayser so companies are eager to get hold of rare earth or other minerals. And so they pay some special money for it. I wouldnt name it bribe. I would say facilitation money. Kroft kayser said it was all legal. He told attorney James Silkenat and the other lawyers that the minister was shopping for a townhouse, a jet and a yacht, but his name must not be connected to the purchases. Kayser if his name now would appear in connection with buying some real estate here and other items, it would look, at least, very, very embarrassing. James silkenat right. Because his. Presumably his salary in, wherever it is, would not cover the kinds of acquisitions were talking about. Kayser oh, for sure. Its the salary of a teacher here. And so how can we make sure that he is being able toto buy property here and to live a nice life, but his name being out . Silkenat right. Any guesses as to how much money were talking about for the brownstone and the other items . Kayser i mean, the brownstone, talk about 10 million. For secondhand gulfstream, i could imagine 10, 20 million. A yacht would be at least 200, 300 million. Kroft the fictitious story of the african minister was cooked up in Global Witness london office, based on an actual Money Laundering case. The investigator phoned 50 new york law firms with experience in private Asset Protection and managed to get facetoface meetings with 16 different lawyers in 13 firms. Kayser im very frank. Its, i would say, gray money. I think somebody told me you name it black money. Kroft Global Witness says the pitch was intentionally designed to raise red flags and to give the lawyers good reason to suspect that the ministers millions came from official corruption, and they all did. Kayser its only that the money is a bit, lets say. Gabe tainted. Kayser tainted, thank you very much. Gabe okay, thats a nice word. Okay. Kayser or, you gave another expression . Koplik honest graft. Kayser honest graft okay, fine. So i have to be frank. Its honest graft. How would you name it . Ross some people call it bribes. Kayser nah, i wouldnt name it bribe. Ross never. Right, no, course not. Kayser because its a business deal. So, okay, bribe. Is actually bribe. Charmian gooch you know, the story of the fictitious african minister would probably have raised eyebrows for the average person on the street. Kroft Charmian Gooch is the cofounder of Global Witness, a public Advocacy Group that exposes corruption in the developing world. Previous undercover investigations exposed the global trade in african blood diamonds. This investigation, gooch says, exposes serious flaws in the u. S. Legal system that have made it a hub for international Money Laundering. Gooch what the lawyers laid out for us in some detail was all the different possibilities and ways in which it could be done. Kroft what youre saying is if you want to get dirty money into the United States, its not that hard to do. Gooch what im saying is there is an open door and its pretty shocking and pretty concerning, because that money could be coming from anywhere. Kroft of the 16 lawyers that Global Witness recorded in these preliminary meetings, only attorney Jeffrey Herrmann flatly declined to participate and showed ralph kayser the door. Herrmann i have some real questions about that. Kayser yes . Herrmann under the foreign corrupt practices act. Kayser right. Herrmann and under the foreign corrupt practices act, bribing foreign officials is illegal. Kayser by americans. Herrmann by americans. Kayser but americans are not involved. So its money from other nation nationals, not american entities, not american nationals. Herrmann its not for me. Kayser pardon me . Herrmann its not for me. Kroft aside from that one exception, 12 out of the 13 law firms, including 15 out of the 16 lawyers, not only heard ralph kayser out, they suggested ways that the suspicious funds could be moved into the u. S. Without compromising the ministers identity. Attorney James Silkenat was selected by Global Witness because at the time, he was president of the American Bar Association. Yet he and his colleague, hugh finnegan, provided what former prosecutors told us was a roadmap of how to conceal the source of the funds using layers of anonymous, interconnected Shell Companies in multiple jurisdictions. Finnegan presumably, we would set up a little bit of a series of owners to try and, again, protect privacy as much as anything else. Kayser yeah. Silkenat so company a is owned by company b, which is owned jointly by company c and d, and your party owns all of or the majority of the shares of c and d. Kayser so we, we create several companies . Finnegan yes. Kayser all in new york or different states . Finnegan well, like i said, at some point, probably pretty quickly, youd go offshore. Kroft attorney john jankoff and his partner, lawrence gabe, recommended variations of the same strategy. Jankoff a lot of people in africa use the isle of man. Some of them use liechtenstein. Gabe so he would just take his millions of dollars, put it in isle of man. Jankoff he can put it into a swiss bank account. The swiss will have it. And. And then. Gabe and then he comes to us. Jankoff and then he comes to us and says, i want to buy a townhouse. Kroft attorney marc koplik also suggested that the minister could move his money out of west africa to europe, where it could be scrubbed in an anonymous corporate entity that his firm would be happy to set up. Koplik the money as it sits now, is it in his name . Kayser its in different names. Koplik okay. So it will come as those different names . Kayser including his name, yes . Koplik so we have to scrub it at the beginning, if we can, or scrub it at the intermediary location that i mentioned. Kayser so how to do this, intermediary . That means a bank in . Koplik well say luxembourg. Kayser luxembourg. Koplik we will set up an appropriate entity call it clientoverseas. Com or whatever, and then that will send money into the United States. Kroft if that was a banker talking instead of a lawyer, he could be in serious trouble. Thats because under u. S. Law, bankers are required to report suspicious financial activity to the authorities. Lawyers are under no such legal obligation. Gooch banks in america are required to know their customer or required to be very cognizant of risk and to report on it if there. If there is an issue there around Money Laundering. And yet, absolutely bizarrely, american lawyers arent. This is clearly an issue. And i think our investigation has shown the potential for what could happen because of that lack of regulation. Kroft Global Witness says that anomaly is just one of the flaws in the u. S. Legal system that helps facilitate Money Laundering. And were going to call it here, anonymous, inc. Kroft another is the ease in which Anonymous Shell Companies can be set up here to conceal ownership of money and assets. Last year two million new corporations were set up in the United States, many with no offices, products or employees. Just an address and perhaps a bank account. Gooch in many states across america, you need less identification to set up and open up an Anonymous Company than you do to get a library card. Kroft gooch says Anonymous Shell Companies are like getaway cars for crooks, designed to put them as far way as possible from the scene of their crime. According to a world bank study, the u. S. Was the favorite place for corrupt officials to set up Anonymous Shell Companies. Gooch there was a very good academic study and america came up as the easiest place to set up an Anonymous Company, after kenya, out of 180 countries. Kroft after kenya . Gooch after kenya. Kroft so did that study have anything to do with your decision to go ahead and do these undercover investigations . Gooch it inspired us. I mean, we almost thought, it cant be this bad, can it . And, unfortunately, what we found is it is. Kroft all of the attorneys expressed some concerns, like this one from gerald ross. Ross ive got to be very careful myself. I dont want to do something if it looks like im laundering money. And that would cost me my license andand i. Just dont do that. Kroft but later, he suggested that the questionable money could be wired directly into his client escrow account, bypassing scrutiny from the banks. Ross when i get money from my other clients, it always comes here with some strange name on it. I dont even ask. Kayser and nobody ask . Ross it doesnt come from minister joe jones. It comes from the xyz account. Kroft john jankoff said they would need to get a legal opinion that the money was clean, then suggested that the minister use front men to open up overseas Bank Accounts. Jankoff if its not in his name, then he needs what is known as a straw man. Practically speaking if the money leaves the country his name should not be attached to the wire. It should be other peoples names. Poncy and we know this happens. We know this happens. This is how Money Laundering occurs all over the world. But that does not mitigate the power of seeing it up close. Kroft we showed the tapes to chip poncy, a former top official at the Treasury Department whose job was to stop financial crime, terrorist financing and Money Laundering. He says theres nothing wrong with lawyers setting up Anonymous Shell Companies to protect a clients privacy, but if its done to conceal criminal activity, thats when it becomes a problem. Poncy theres a clear pitch consistently presented in every one of these tapes of what amounts to an incredible number of red flags that scream corruption. Kroft dirty money . Poncy dirty money. Kroft bad actors . Poncy bad actors. They dont want to be found and they have a need. Theyve got to move their money from a point where theyve received corrupt proceeds in this case to a point where they can enjoy those proceeds. And to get em from. To get this money from point a to point b, they need help in laundering it, effectively. Kroft poncy says he was dismayed with the ease and the comfort with which attorneys seemed to be willing to turn a blind eye and discuss a matter that was likely to be illegal. Poncy whats essential to recognize is that this is after its been revealed that the potential client is representing an african minister with hundreds of millions of dollars of funds received through, effectively, bribes. Kroft this is more than legal advice . Poncy this is legal advice on how to evade controls, or at a minimum, very clear Global Standards on financial transparency to allow our countries to go after proceeds of crime. Kroft attorney marc koplik told the Global Witness investigator that he preferred using Money Managers and investment firms to move funds. He thought it was less risky than using banks. Koplik and i would suggest three or four to you. Some are bigger. Some are smaller. The smaller ones are often more flexible and understanding and less concerned about their reputation. Because they fly, to a greater extent, below the radar screen. Kroft sometimes the advice took the form of suggesting banks and countries that might be less vigilant about Money Laundering. Silkenat we would have to look into how far specific banks looked into, you know, the, you know, the know your customer laws and how far they would dig. Finnegan in many ways, youd probably be better off with a smaller bank because. Kayser that would be a possibility. Finnegan because the bigger banks are much more serious about looking into that stuff. Kayser their reputation. Finnegan right. Yes. Silkenat and there may be other Banking Systems that are less rigorous on this than the u. S. Would be. Kayser what would it be . Silkenat the usual banking havens, i think, would be ones you would want to consider. We could provide you with a list of countries where the Banking Systems require less detail on ownership or source of funds. Kroft while James Silkenat, the former president of the American Bar Association, and his partner, hugh finnegan, listened to the pitch and suggested ways in which they might be able to help, they were also the most suspicious of ralph kayser and his african minister, beginning just five minutes into the meeting. Silkenat we need to talk about the risks or just concerns about where he got the money and how to explain that. Kayser thats it. Silkenat there is. There are issues there. The transactions is which he would be involved here wouldnt be part of facilitating payments, but if thats really where the money came from and if there were, you know, crimes committed someplace else, that that starts to be an issue. Kroft they were also the most cautious about moving forward. Towards the end of the meeting, hugh finnegan, who is off camera here, said the firm would feel obligated to report anything it believed to be illegal. Finnegan bearing in mind of what you said, no american law was violated, no local law was violated, but, you know, if were aware that a crime is being committed, we have an obligation to report that. Kroft mr. Silkenat says, we need to talk about the risks or just concerns about where he got the money and how to explain that. Poncy that, that, and thats, thats a welcome. Kroft hes already been told how, where the money came from and how he got the money. Poncy correct. So itits a healthy recognition that theres an issue here. Kroft if you could ask him anything about this meeting, what would it be . Poncy whats going through your head . Why are you continuing this conversation . Why not just say no . Is the business that important . Kroft when we first aired this story, neither silkenat nor finnegan would agree to an on camera interview. But they sent us a statement saying they only discussed generic information that could be found on the internet and that their conduct was entirely appropriate. Had the camera followed us after the meeting, they wrote, it would have shown us agreeing that kayser was disreputable and that we would not deal with him again. The other lawyers declined on camera interviews. When we come back, well take a look at the legal and ethical implications of what youve just seen. Amazing sleep stays with you all day and all night. Sleep number beds with Sleepiq Technology give you the knowledge to adjust for the best sleep ever. 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As we first reported in january, its investigator was posing as the representative of an african government minister trying to move millions of dollars in suspicious funds into the u. S. Global witness, which specializes in exposing international corruption, wanted to see how much help the lawyers would provide in setting up Anonymous Shell Companies and offshore Bank Accounts to move the suspicious funds. Silkenat good to see you. Kayser good to see you. Kroft the undercover investigator, who called himself ralph kayser, told the lawyers that the minister had used his official position to collect tens of millions of dollars in special payments from Foreign Companies to help them obtain valuable mineral rights. He wanted to move the money to the United States to buy a house, a jet, and a yacht. Kayser so therefore, he wants to bring in the money into the u. S. So, starting with the brownstone and then, probably, buying a gulfstream jet. He wants to commission the building of a yacht, and buy, probably, more property. Kroft the story was intentionally devised to raise red flags and lead the lawyers to believe that the ministers money was dirty. During the meetings, only one of the 16 lawyers, Jeffrey Herrmann, told him no. Herrmann this aint for me. My standards are higher. Kroft the rest expressed varying degrees of interest, with most of them offering advice on how it could be done. Koplik we do everything, soup to nuts. So, theres no limitation. We dont say, oh, we dont do windows, or we dont deal with the financial Money Managers, or whatever. No. We orchestrate and organize the entire thing. Were happy to take that responsibility. Kroft whats important to point out and it cannot be overstated is that none of the lawyers weve shown you broke any laws, in part because the african minister didnt really exist. There were no hundreds of millions of dollars, and Global Witness Charmian Gooch said no money ever changed hands. So this is sort of a morality test . Gooch it wasnt. It was a. It was a test on the system. Kroft you know, people could make the argument, look, all these guys did, really, was just listen to this person that came into their office. They didnt make a deal, they didnt sign up. They said, we need to do some more research. gooch and you know what . Theyd be absolutely right to say that, but theyd need to Say Something else, too, which is that those lawyers laid out, in often considerable detail, a myriad of different ways to bring money into america. Kroft none of the lawyers agreed to take on the african minister as a client, nor were they asked to. It was a preliminary meeting that ended with most of the attorneys expressing interest in continuing the dialogue, and some enthusiastic about landing the business. Silkenat im happy to chat whenever its possible to move the ball forward on this. Kayser fantastic, great. Silkenat good. Kayser thank you so much. Silkenat thanks for coming in. Kroft marc koplik and albert grant foresaw no problem as long as the money was clean, and gave no indication that they planned to do any checking themselves. They went so far as to discuss legal fees. Koplik legal fees will be substantial, albert. Correct me im wrong 50,000 to 100,000. Kroft koplik also suggested conducting a test in which a portion of the suspicious funds would be sent into the United States. Koplik a million dollars. Kayser a million dollars, so, as a test . Albert grant yeah. Kayser because i said, probably you would start with around, 50 million, probably, i could imagine . Koplik i would say a million dollars. Kayser a million dollars. Koplik if anything goes wrong, itll be painful, but it wont be life threatening. Kayser right. Exactly. Kroft john jankoff and his partner, lawrence gabe, who is off camera here, also seemed willing to go forward. Jankoff we would orchestrate it. One legal fee to cover everything. Kroft however, gabe did express some concerns about the transactions. Kayser who can set up this structure . Could you do it . Jankoff yeah, your brother inlaw does it all the time. Gabe well, okay. But iii dont think he does it with money that may be questionable. And that we have to find out about. Kroft at the end of that meeting, they looked forward to the next conversation on the telephone, not on email. Gabe okay, give me a phone number where we can reach you . Kayser ah. Gabe im certainly not putting this in emails. Kayser sending an email with just an outline would be fine, as well, so its. Jankoff i dont like emails. Kayser you dont like emails . Gabe thats how you catch people. Kroft the hidden camera tapes raise all sorts of ethical questions not just about the behavior of the lawyers, but about the methods used by Global Witness in making them. We showed the footage to bill simon, a law professor at columbia university, who is one of the countrys top legal ethicists. Bill simon i think it draws attention to the fact that lawyers may be playing an Important Role in Money Laundering that requires more scrutiny. Kroft have you ever seen anything like this before . Simon no. Kroft never . Simon never. Kroft whats your overall impression of it . Simon any lawyers going to be uncomfortable about the fact that this was a sting in which someone lied his way into a Lawyers Office and secretly recorded statements a lawyer was. Thought he was making to a client. Thats kind of unprecedented and its kind of inconsistent with the bars norms about confidentiality. So im a little uneasy about that. On the other hand, i think that the tapes expose conduct of great public consequence. Kroft you think its valuable that the public sees it . Simon yeah. I think its very valuable. Confidentiality is for the benefit of the client, not the lawyer. But the lawyers benefit from it, because conduct that goes on under the protection of confidentiality is never scrutinized by the public. And lawyers are never accountable for it. So the sting actually brings some accountability to conduct that ought to be accountable. Kroft in its own report, Global Witness includes an opinion from two legal ethicists, including bill simon of columbia. It says that if attorneys marc koplik, john jankoff, and gerald ross had been responding to a real request, their conduct would not comply with the professional responsibilities of lawyers. It said the attorneys displayed a cynical and evasive attitude toward law. The ethicists also noted that the rules are vague, and we do not expect that all lawyers will agree with us. Simon put thena. B. A. President James Silkenat and his partner, hugh finnegan, in a different category, even though they provided advice on how to move questionable funds into the u. S. What makes silkenat different from the other lawyers . Simon silkenat was quite clear that he would not assist illegal conduct. And he even indicated at one point that he would report the client if he found the client engaged in illegal conduct. And then, also, silkenat was fairly clear that he would need more information before he agreed to represent the client. Kroft on the other hand, he clearly seems interested in this. Simon he clearly seems interested and even a little enthusiastic about it. Kroft anything wrong with that . Simon well, i find it regrettable, but i. Im not sure as a professional responsibility authority, i could say it was inconsistent with his duties under the rules. Kroft simon says the only lawyer who truly fulfilled the ideals of the Legal Profession was Jeffrey Herrmann, who listened to the pitch, decided it probably involved illegal activity, and ended the meeting. Herrmann this aint for me. My standards are higher. Im not interested. Kayser do you. Do you know anybody who would be able to do so . Herrmann i dont think so, and i wouldnt recommend them either anyway. Kayser yeah, yeah. Herrmann because those persons would be insulted. Kroft Charmian Gooch says the point of Global Witness hidden camera investigation was not to target or entrap lawyers for bad behavior. The problem, she says, are lax laws and toothless regulations that make it ridiculously easy for criminals to launder 300 billion a year in the United States. Gooch this is real Public Interest information. How are you going to get that out to them if you cant show them whats happening behind closed doors . Kroft you couldnt have done this any other way . Gooch i think unless the public and policy makers can really see for themselves what gets said across the desk, across the table in a meeting like this, its kind of hard to really believe and take on board. Kroft gooch says theres a simple solution, but its been politically impossible to achieve in the United States. Just ask carl levin, the longtime chairman of the senates permanent subcommittee on investigation. Until he retired last year, he spent years trying to pass a law that would require the states to collect one additional piece of information from people forming corporations. Carl levin one line whos the real owner. Not whos the agent forming it. Not whos the lawyer representing the owner. Who is the beneficial owner, the real owner . And itsits not at all complicated. Kroft but the bill has never made it out of committee, in part because of strong opposition from the American Bar Association. Kroft whats the American Bar Associations objection to this . Levin the lawyers are helping form corporations, and theyre afraid, i guess, that if you put a damper on the formation of corporations, that youre putting some damper on legal business. Kroft the irony is that the white house, the Justice Department and the u. S. Treasury have been among the worlds strongest proponents for cracking down on Money Laundering. Yet the u. S. Is one of the easiest places in the world to set up the Anonymous Companies that facilitate it. Gooch its a heck of a paradox, isnt it . And, you know, i think that the American Bar Association needs to get behind the need for regulation, in the way that european lawyers have had to do exactly the same. And i think that you know, it. Its. I think the American Government needs to answer that question. Kroft Global Witness may have inadvertently gotten a sassy answer to that question from attorney marc koplik in its hidden camera video. Koplik explained to the representative of the phony african minister why he never worried about government subpoenas. Koplik they dont send the lawyers to jail, because we run the country. Kayser do you run the country . Koplik still do. Kayser i love it. Koplik still do. Grant i should say some lawyers run the country. Kayser so, you are. You are some of them . Two of them . Koplik were still members of a privileged, privilege class in this country. Kayser so, how, what does it mean you run the country . It means you . Koplik we make the laws, and when we do so, we make them in a way that is advantageous to the lawyers. Kroft three days after our story aired last january, several members of Congress Introduced Bipartisan Legislation requiring attorneys, and anyone else creating Anonymous Shell Companies here in the u. S. , to disclose the real owners behind those companies. The Obama Administration followed several months later with new rules aimed at preventing Money Laundering. Here at the time barclays, the first leg of the fedex cup, michael reed to win by 1 in the Little League world series, the United States team defeated seoul, south korea, 2 to 1. Capturing their first title since 1964. For more, go to cbsnews. Com, jim nance, reporting from new york. The sunll come out tomorrow. For people with Heart Failure, tomorrow is not a given. But entresto is a medicine that helps make more tomorrows possible. Tomorrow, tomorrow. I love ya, tomorrow in the largest Heart Failure study ever. Entresto helped more people stay alive and out of the hospital than a leading Heart Failure medicine. Women who are pregnant must not take entresto. It can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. Dont take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren. If youve had angioedema while taking an ace or arb medicine, dont take entresto. The most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure. Kidney problems, or high potassium in your blood. Tomorrow, tomorrow i love ya, tomorrow. Ask your heart doctor about entresto. And help make tomorrow possible. Youre only a day away and i didnt get here alone. There were people who listened along the way. People who gave me options. Kept me on track. And through it all, my retirement never got left behind. So today, im prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be. Every someday needs a plan. Lets talk about your old 401 k today. , america thought our pancakes but we knew we could do better. So we did. We made dennys new pancakes 50 fluffier with fresh buttermilk and hint of vanilla. If you disagree, the cakes are free. Leslie stahl just two and a half years ago, Schuyler Bailar was one of the Fastest High School swimmers in the country, a champion breaststroker with a stellar academic record who had womens swim coaches from around the ivy league coming to call. Schuylers first choice was harvard, and as luck would have it, the harvard Womens Swim Team was in need of a breaststroker. Schuyler was offered a spot, and a seemingly Perfect Match was made. But when harvards swimmers hit the pool deck last fall, schuyler had switched teams. Schuyler now swims with the men. As we first reported in april, the story of how harvard came to be the first Mens Division one Athletic Team in the nation to include an openly transgender young man is also the story of a bigger transformation. In attitudes, acceptance, and the larger conversation about what it means to be transgender. How different are you . If i had met you a couple of years ago and then saw you today . Schuyler bailar physically youd say yeah, you might not recognize me. laughs stahl you look that different . Schuyler bailar id say so. Yeah. Stahl wed say so too. This is what Schuyler Bailar looked like in high school. From the outside, schuyler back then appeared to be a young woman who had it all outstanding grades in school plus allamerican times in the pool. An attractive combination to swim coaches from topnotch colleges. Stephanie morawski she was a very strong breaststroker, and those times were fast. Stahl harvard womens coach Stephanie Morawski traveled to d. C. To recruit schuyler. First impressions . Morawski she was engaging, energetic and she was somebody that i really thought would do well at harvard. Stahl harvard was schuylers first choice. But this fairytale had a little wrinkle, one that may have started before schuyler even learned to swim. When you were a little girl, were you a typical little girl . Two, three four . Schuyler bailar definitely no. Stahl even three, four, five . Schuyler bailar my parents dressed me in pink dresses and bow ties, and i had a doll. But i dont think i was typical even then because i would i would like to rip them off and i didnt want to wear the dresses. Gregor bailar im not wearing a dress. laughs stahl gregor and terry bailar are schuylers parents. Did people think schuyler was a boy . Terry hong all the time. laughs stahl terry and gregor just assumed schuyler was a tomboy who preferred short hair and hanging out with the guys. That their daughter might be transgender never occurred to them, though there were clues. In middle school, schuylers class had to make selfportraits in the present and the future. She came home with this. It made no sense at the time why the future meant becoming an old man with a moustache. And the confusion only worsened when puberty hit, and things like breasts began to appear. Schuyler bailar i was like, thats not something i want. And i dont really know why, but i just know i dont want that. Stahl even though it felt wrong, schuyler saw no choice but to try and make it work as a girl with long hair and dresses. But it backfired. She developed major eating disorders. Stahl bulimia . Anorexia . Terry hong both. Stahl both . Gregor bailar it was serious. Terry hong we feared for his life. Gregor bailar yeah. Stahl they postponed schuylers going to harvard and got her help at an eating disorders program. When she went to hear some transgender men speak at a local church, wham. Everything started to make sense. Schuyler bailar i was like, holy crap, this is me. Like, this has this is 100 , everything that theyre saying, thats me. And i just melted down. I just started crying and sobbing. And my dad was picking me up because he was coming to visit me. Stahl that very day . Schuyler bailar yeah, and i walked out to him and i said and i was sobbing, i was like and he just hugged me. Gregor bailar he came out, you know, in tears crying Schuyler Bailar and eventually he said, d like, whats whats wrong, schuyler . And i said, dad, i think im transgender. Stahl so how did you handle it . Gregor bailar i hugged him. And he cried and cried. Schuyler bailar it just made me realize, like, i wanted that so badly but i knew how hard it was going to be. And i i was like, what about swimming . What about my body . What about surgery . What about the money . What about people . What are we going to say . What about my grandparents . What about my brother . Like, laughs everything at once. laughs i was like, but i want this, and i know i want this. Stahl schuylers Mental Health improved quickly. But there was still the matter of telling coach morawski that her new womens swimmer would now be coming to college, as a man. So what was your reaction . Morawski i was surprised. But the really, the big question schuyler had was, can i still swim on your team . Stahl what did you think . Did you think someone who identified as a man could swim on the womens team . Morawski i thought logistically we might have some issues that we would have to work out. Stahl like n. C. A. A. Rules. Turns out the ncdoublea has a policy that allows for athletes who identify as male but were born female to compete on a womens team, as long as they dont take male hormones. So Stephanie Morawski said yes, and schuyler started making plans to live something of a double life to be a man on harvards campus the next fall, but a woman on harvards swim team. Meanwhile, schuyler came out as transgender on facebook, and posted on instagram that he had socalled top surgery a double mastectomy to remove the breasts he hadnt wanted. The whole situation started to worry coach morawski. Terry hong i think stephanie was the first to realize that schuylers plan of being a woman in the water but a man outside was gonna be Gregor Bailar difficult at best. Terry hong totally detrimental laughter to her psyche. Morawski when you enroll in college, its an opportunity to start over again. Stahl you can reinvent yourself. Morawski you can reinvent yourself. And i was struggling watching schuyler, because he wanted to reinvent himself as schuyler as a male, but was being held back by the athletic piece of it. Stahl she discussed her concerns with her friend and colleague, harvard mens swim coach kevin tyrrell. Morawski kevin was just kind of looked at me and said, i dont i agree with you, i dont think that you can have a dual identity. Why doesnt he just swim for my team . Stahl just like that. Morawski just like that. Kevin tyrrell i mean, it made sense, right . If youre happy being a male and thats what you want to identify as, then it makes sense to be on the mens swimming team. Stahl that would be allowed under n. C. A. A rules and he would be permitted to take testosterone. But before giving schuyler the option of joining the team, tyrrell called a meeting of his swimmers to discuss what he thought would be a very sensitive issue. What were the reactions . Tyrrell they didnt see it as a big deal. I had worked up all of these questions in my mind to ask them, and i asked them, and they were like that sounds fine. laughs stahl when they didnt even express concern about the locker room, tyrrell wasnt sure he believed them. Tyrrell so i concluded, well guys, you know, lets come into my office, you know, if you want to talk to me one on one, please do. Stahl you thought some might be holding back . Tyrrell right. Just because of group think and and then so, no one came into the office. Stahl and it surprised you . Tyrrell it did surprise me. You know, i swam in college over 20 years ago, and i think it would have been a different process for me. Stahl but choosing between the womens and mens teams was agonizing for schuyler, who was used to winning as a woman. On the mens team, he would be at the back of the pack. Morawski schuyler had to do a lot of thinking about what mattered most. Was it breaking records, or was it really being happy . Stahl you put that to him. Morawski i did. Stahl that was last spring. For harvard in lane two, Schuyler Bailar. Stahl this fall, at harvards meet against ivy league rival columbia, we watched as schuyler got ready scars visible across his chest to step up onto the starting block to swim with the men, as a man. Schuyler bailar my goal to myself, because its not realistic for me to win anything right now, at all, laughs is to try to beat at least one person in every race. laughs stahl and have you met that goal so far . Schuyler bailar almost. Yesterday, i did get last in my second event. But but thats the only one. And ive done eight races. So, seven out of eight of them laughs ive gotten not last. Stahl thats i im really surprised. Schuyler bailar im really happy about it. Stahl and hes happy about living as a man in all facets of his life. He takes the n. C. A. A. Approved dosage of testosterone which has been lowering his voice, broadening his shoulders, and bringing him closer to that future he had envisioned back in middle school. You have a little mustache . Schuyler bailar yes, i have a little mustache, little peach fuzz. laughter stahl are you shaving . Schuyler bailar yes. And i shaved because i wanted to look nice for the interview. laughs stahl schuyler has been remarkably open about all this, chronicling the whole process of his transition on social media, complete with before and after images. And hes invited people to ask when they have questions. Stahl you are almost passionate about answering questions. Schuyler bailar yes. Stahl you dont run away from this. Schuyler bailar people are ignorant. Period. Because its not taught in school. Like if you dont know a lot of trans people, how are you supposed to know the answers to the questions about people who are transgender . Stahl what kind of questions do you get . Schuyler bailar do you still have a vagina . laughs like, people like to ask that one. And a lot of people get really uncomfortable, like a lot of trans people hate that question. Stahl you dont hate that question . Schuyler bailar i dont like it, but i try to see it from their perspective. And im like, okay, if they if, like if i were in their po like, their position, i would probably be wondering the same thing. Stahl well, whats the answer to the question . Schuyler bailar yes. I mean, thats the answer to the question. Stahl thats the answer Schuyler Bailar its, like stahl to the question. Schuyler bailar its a simple question. Stahl he says being transgender has nothing to do with whether or not someone gets bottom surgery, and it also has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Schuyler has always been attracted to girls; in high school, as a young woman, schuyler had come out as gay; now, as a man, hes straight. But there is one small matter we discovered, where hes leaving his options open. You will never get pregnant. Schuyler bailar i dont know about that. Thats a long story. laughter stahl really . Schuyler bailar i i there are, there are trans men that get pregnant because they want to have biological children. Stahl so this is in your head, that one day you might give birth . Schuyler bailar might is is in bold and underlined and italicked. But yes. Yeah. I dont know. Im 19. Stahl 19 and healthy. Back at that harvardcolumbia meet we went to pull, schuyler, pull stahl schuyler achieved his goal of beating one swimmer and he beat his own previous best time by more than a second. But we did notice schuyler during the womens competition, cheering on his wouldhavebeen teammates in his old event. And we were pretty sure he noticed that his old times would have won first place. Have you ever in the whole time secondguessed what you did . Schuyler bailar i think i would be lying if i said no. Stahl so you have. Schuyler bailar i know i made the right decision. But i think sometimes i, like im like, oh, i really wish i could i could compete as a girl. Because i want to win that race. Its fun to win, and its something that i worked really hard for. And, you know, i i work the same amount. But but now im im working the same amount for 16th place, you know . Stahl and thats okay . Schuyler bailar and thats okay. Its the way it is. And its also a lot of fun. It has other kinds of glory in it. Stahl different kind of glory. Schuyler bailar definitely a different kind. Its a glory that, like, fills me inside. Stahl compared to one year ago, how are you feeling . Schuyler bailar proud. In one word, proud. Stahl in the months since our story aired, schuyler has continued to improve, shaving several seconds off his best times. He is now training for his sophomore season with the team. How does a family change when a daughter becomes a son . Find out at 60minutesovertime. Com. I dont want to live with the uncertainties of hep c. Or wonder whether i should seek treatment. I am ready. Because today theres harvoni. A revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. Harvoni is proven to cure up to 99 of patients. Whove had no prior treatment. It transformed treatment as the first cure thats. One pill, once a day for 12 weeks. Certain patients. Can be cured with just 8 weeks of harvoni. Harvoni is a simple treatment regimen thats been prescribed to more than a quarter of a million patients. 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