Suggested be called the service we'll talk about that with net for Freeman of the Institute for Policy Studies That's coming up and we'll get right to it you're listening to counter spin brought to you each week by the media watch group fair. As media critics in election season are preeminent concern is less how fair the press are to this or that candidate but how fair they are to the public that means substantive reporting not just on candidates their records on proposals but on the voting process itself and specifically the distance between the system we have and the democracy we return Rickly invoke and that some of us actually seek if corporate media typically underserved such process questions the public increasingly sees their urgency resulting in things like this week's overwhelming passage here in New York City of a ballot initiative that will change the way we vote here to tell us about it and how it can matter is Rob Richie co-founder and president of the group Fair Vote He joins us by phone from Tacoma Park Maryland welcome back to counter spin Rob Richie thank you gitting Well we spoke with you in that weird sad hit on the head moment in the immediate wake of the 2016 presidential election when we were just trying to see a way forward you talked to then about ranked choice voting which had just passed in Maine as a meaningful reform of an electoral system that lets us down I wonder if you could explain a little what you mean about the ways in which the current voting system lets us down you have a current system creates incentives and. That really limit what we as voters experience both with the candidates who ultimately are seen as credible or even offer themselves at all and what we can do as voters in any case in our support for them and when you have a single choice system which people might think like one person one vote that has to be single choice and that's not what one person one vote means it means that we all have equal voting power but if you're limited to that then you are not very expressive you're just expressing one thing and if you only have 2 choices expressing the one thing is completely adequate but if you have more than 2 choices you're sort of leaving your views on the table about everyone except the one person that you vote for and when you have big fields of candidates like a lot of people running for president in the Democratic field right now for president you know that only being able to vote for one person can seem pretty limiting and has certain outcomes on who ends up finishing at the top of the heap and then when you have a general election the most dramatically in my lifetime for a lot of people was Ralph Nader and Al Gore and George Bush and there was a couple other candidates as well that year but there was a lot of people feeling sort of torn about whether they would vote their heart which for them might have been Ralph Nader or more pragmatic self of like well I think Gore has the one who has the best chance to beat Bush and those who ultimately voted for Nader say in Florida forfeited their chance to help Bush be defeated by Gore and that's the conundrum that comes up with our current system and and Rectus voting is really a win win solution to those kinds of debates it allows you to vote for the person you're really like and if that person ends up being not a particular strong candidate and doesn't have a chance to win your ballot goes to your backup choice and when you get to what's called a quote an instant runoff you're down to kind of a one on one choice and that really can come up as an interesting idea in a number of settings and New York City was a good example of it it really passed in a huge way and cried out of a charter commission 13 to one and just really you know very powerfully speaks to what's going on in New York but almost in a kind of a very straightforward this is. Just a better way to have an election and then there's other uses of it that I think are more dramatic which would be say using it say in presidential elections that would offer the opportunity for 3rd parties and independents to run without being you know quote unquote spoilers right well I think we've all you know experienced this idea of people saying they feel like they're only voting against something you know they're not really voting for something and that leads to a kind of apathy and that leads to not voting and then folks get mad at them you know for that but I've seen you suggest that ranks choice can change literally the sort of person that runs for office and I want to draw you out a little bit on that you say you as a candidate have a lot more reason to have conversations engagements with people the candidates that run traditional campaigns that involve using money and not using people have not done as well I think for many people that's the exciting part is really getting a truly more diverse field of candidates Yeah often there is this barrier to entry or perception of entry which is that well you don't have a chance to win you shouldn't put your name forward or I'm not going to vote for you because I don't think you can win and those kinds of calculations kind of go out the door with renters voting because you can vote for the person you want and cow that back up what it means for the candidates that are trying to win as they now have to learn how to be 2nd and 3rd choices backers of other candidates right and so people who they might have just ignored in the past because they felt that vote was locked up for that constituency now no they might need that vote to win and so that's where you become a better candidate because you need to learn how to connect and the best way to connect is actually not was simple 32nd t.v. Ads or something you have to earn people's trust you have to show that you're listening and to do that it really rewards a certain kind of campaigning that particularly when you're talking about say city council districts. Really involves actually directing virtually a person a person a kind of connection of earning trust or at least having your campaign kind of engage directly with people to really changes and sentence in a positive way well when you say that candidates that run campaigns that involve using money more than people don't do as well that suggests to me some powerful opponents for rank choice voting and indeed Maine Republican Representative Bruce Pollock when I said that people were so confused by rank choice voting they were so confused that he didn't win the election you know and he filed a lawsuit to challenge the constitutionality of rank choice he called it exotic which I find kind of telling but a federal judge slapped him down so that seems to bode well for the expanded use maybe of right choice it did yeah that was when I was a somewhat nervous moment because the judge had just been appointed by Tom Trump and had been recommended by means governor who that former governor who was a very angry opponent of rancorous voting and seen as kind of a Donald Trump of Maine and so there's a sense that well is this judge going to give it a fair shake and he did just an excellent pain I mean it was not just because we want but he really addressed it and took on the issues and sort of knocked them down one by one and really in a sense took away these arguments that it's not constitutional it's not a one person one vote system that had been dealt with by other judges too but just to have a judge kind of on the court on that side of the spectrum take that perspective and do such a strong opinion has you know it's a rhetorical device of the opposition but it isn't a real argument we certainly have our opponents but it's interesting you know this can be attractive to all kinds of people in different settings like there's a lot of unhappy Republicans right now because of the Kentucky governor's race where a libertarian candidate got you know much more votes than the margin of victory between the Democrats over the Republicans some Republicans were. That libertarian voters would have a backup choice and you know that would have been fairer right and so having a politics where where you get outcomes that are and sense accurate is good but ones that sort of changes incentives for candidates to really build a true majority is something that we can find interesting supporters out from across the spectrum you know one of the barriers to it over the years has been logistical and administrative and that's one of the big things that's happened since we last spoke is that we're now removing most of those barriers so jurisdictions can say this is a good idea and relatively quickly and straightforwardly implemented and implemented effectively and that's going to really open the door toward expanding this in a lot of different places Well the main dig as we've seen it has been that it's confusing and that's what the judge was addressing in part in Maine in these times is Adam I can made I thought an insightful point that passage in New York City both sides tripling maybe the number of folks who use rank choice voting also exposes the reform he wrote to all of the journalists and all of the media that live in New York and that that sets them up better to cover it moving forward and it is something that although voters who use it say it's not actually that confusing we we got it we can handle it it is something that requires thoughtful coverage you know and particularly coverage that considers it as a process and doesn't just dissolve it into whatever particular election is happening at the time you know so I did see some coverage I mean The New York Times indorsed rank choice I thought you cited a piece from N.B.C.'s Dasha burns on Main I thought thoughtful piece and Fortune magazine but the thing is I didn't learn about it from media you know I didn't that's not where I heard that it was happening that it was something that I could vote on that it was something I could could be part of you know and so I guess maybe finally the big thing about. Media coverage would be just to have more of that. Yeah no I think that is true and it is an interesting trajectory we are pleased with the trajectories direction but I think the natural inclination of reporters is to marginalize a new idea until it becomes inevitable individual reporters accepting there is a general perception of like well that's exotic you know that's not really look at that yet it's not credible and I think that's the challenge of kind of breaking into the being perceived as serious and I think that is really starting to happen that we're going up for states state Democratic parties are going to use it in the presidential primaries next year Maine has now extended it to President itself so when the Electoral College votes are decided in May next November it's going to be with right choice voting in a close state u.s. Senate a big Susan Collins race where she's running for reelection and could be the swing state that cover you know controls the Senate that's going to be with right close voting in a multi-cam a race will be these opportunities for people to to take it seriously and I think it's a fun night topic actually for they where they get into it I think the more that they'll actually realize it helps provides a whole much richer set of data front are standing there lections and what voters want and actually gets more interesting candidates to to get outside of the binary positioning when you're only limited to 2 and I mean I and it should need thing but we're not saying it's the answer to all that you know the devil's the democratic project. This is true yes we've been speaking with Rob Richie co-founder and president of fair vote and you can learn more about their work online at Fair Vote dot org Rob Richie thank you so much for joining us this week on counter spin thank you Jeanine keep up the great work the. Corporate Media made Donald Trump a recent speech to a conference of police chiefs in Chicago a story about the hate hate to relate. Ship between Trump and the city and in particular its black superintendent who didn't attend fact checking consisted of noting that actually homicides are down in Chicago and rehashing Trump's fabricated tale about a cop who told him he could fix the city's violence in one day for the press Trump's comment that Afghanistan is a safe place by comparison was just another slam at the city proof of how history onic Trump is and even how unpatriotic he imagines the u.s. Could be as bad as someplace else but for black communities in Chicago and elsewhere the comparison to an occupied country isn't outlandish at all in fact Trump announced in alarming plan to escalate the militarization of the police unleashing what he called a new crackdown on violent crime targeting gangs and drug traffickers in cities and rural areas it will be he said very dramatic let's call it the surge what fresh horrors this administration has in mind under the guise of a new crackdown on crime ought to be of grave concern to the press it assuredly is to communities across the country joining us now to talk about that is net for Freeman he's events coordinator and policy analyst at the Institute for Policy Studies He joins us now by phone from Washington d.c. Welcome back to counter spinet for freemen thank you for having me Well Donald Trump explicitly boasted of making 600 $1000000.00 worth of surplus military equipment available to local law enforcement saying quote If you remember the previous administration didn't want to do that they didn't want to make you look so tough they didn't want to make you look like you're a threat close quote. Didn't read that though in the New York Times report but in Jake Johnson's piece on common dreams the Times told me Trump quote struck a law in order to tone close quote Well law enforcement being encouraged to see themselves as at war is a different story when your the enemy right what do you make I guess 1st of all of media's burying the lead on this let's call it the surge I mean the headline wrote wrote itself you know what it what do you make of this whole event and of media's kind of non-response to it. Is pretty interesting I don't think it really should be surprising and I think it's less about Donald Trump and their declared search then it is about the intrinsic nature of law enforcement as entities for control and containment and then just also the army there actually count a farce to what the military does abroad is what the police do here I think would help us understand it if we understand this country as a settler colony said Look loyalism as a system that persists and not settlers being something in history that happen the pilgrims and then it's over it persist in terms of indigenous people rights being curtailed and also in insulate Africa is being brought here that same relationship of colonizer to colonise particular under set look wanted paradigm still exists and the police and the antecedents of the police were the sleeper trolls that's where Valdano and it becomes even more of an understanding if like for example Donald Trump makes his pronouncements trying to disparage Barack Obama but even under Barack Obama he says he hasn't even reached Braga Obama's achievement of having expanded the $1033.00 program which is the Department of Defense Program to authorize the transfer of military equipment to police local police forces under Barack Obama this program expanded by 2400 percent and this is not a new program and proceeds by. Obama all the way back to 992 and it was authorized an act called the National Defense Authorization Act of 1990 which is 1st started it and you also hear with the rise of blood was matter and the concern over police killings of us with impunity and brutalization you hear about the repaired of the community's distrust of police and instead looking at root causes of that distrust being the violations the police commit against the people I wanted to say one thing about whatever may happen I mean Trump is announcing something that we're told the tourney general bar is going to roll out soon and I want to just say one thing about the media coverage we're likely to see which is you know you're talking about getting to the actual root of what police are for and I know that with the rollout of this is going to become this distinction between violent criminals so this is targeted you know this is just about violent criminals This is the oldest strategy you know we always see aid cut off pretending to distinguish between deserving and undeserving poor we see this attempt to separate immigrants against one another and I'm afraid that media are going to see some significance in this idea that this is a targeted crackdown and what I wanted to say about it is in Trump's speech in Chicago which media had so little interest in relatively He indicated how wide the the de facto net was going to be identified the enemy when he talked about how before him he said quote radical activists freely trafficked in violent anti-police hostility and criminals grew only more emboldened as a result close quote Nobody should fool themselves that anything that calls itself being about crime is about crime at all that's right you hit it on the head and we can't divorce this develop. From the development of the F.B.I.'s designation of black identity and stream in the actually use of the 1033 program in the militarized police in the uprisings in Ferguson and Baltimore and all these things and even in the earlier times when we 1st referred to the mentioning of Swat the real use of Swat and it's starting was against the Black Panther Party and so what they're really seeing and those and I'm referring to the purveyors of the world power elites are threats to the system that are really coming out of the results of neoliberal policies which increase unemployment which increase all these different disparities that have much more of what would be considered a surplus population that they have to contain and control on of the war on drugs most of the people that were subject to the mass incarceration that was a result were nonviolent people dealing with drug charges and some of them weren't even really a guilty of so it really is something that we should be concerned with in terms of an intensified fascism and not only is the media very tellingly silent still are the Democratic candidates and policy makers who claim to be a resistance and claim to be against Trump they at least made some pronouncements of standing up to the agree to some very draconian immigration policies in the lockers of people this has implications for that same thing but they're not talking about it and so they have to do it some point this is where we see the by products and consensus the police and law enforcement are needed to sustain the status quo and put down threats to the status quo that emanate from the people but particularly organized and politically conscious formations and efforts Well yes and going right from that I think we do see people despite the void of corporate media and the stories that I saw on this I would say again we're independent media some college media and also libertarian you know who are concerned about you know the feds getting involved in local. Law enforcement but even around those media voids we see people pushing back at a deeper level at a more structural level not only protesting when police kill somebody for example but recognizing when criminality is being manufactured and I'm thinking about here in New York with this new crackdown on people who don't pay subway fares we saw a major action just this week with decolonized this place and others cop hating lawbreakers as the New York Post had it converging to protest and to say we're not going to turn our guest ourselves we don't buy your divisions of criminal and law abiding you know we don't respect that whole system so I know you're involved with black alliance for peace on that Coordinating Committee I see trouble but I also see hope and I wonder if you can leave us with kind of what folks are doing here we should really boost up some of these programs and campaigns that are on the ground the Black Alliance or peace recently launched or has been a few months now before this campaign defeat war against African Celeste black people and in the u.s. And abroad making the links between the militarization of the world particularly Africa and the u.s. Africa Command and the $1030.00 if you program here and the campaign is focused on mass incarceration police exchanges with Israel which we really need to pay attention to as speaks to the shared settler colonial nature and why they have so much interest to gather but the police in Israel here train each other and share different ways of controlling the population the so-called exposing elected officials and making them take a position rather on things like the blue lives matter bill that makes it a crime to assault a police officer which we know the assault of police officers can be really misused that campaign trying to nationalize and get louder voices around this militarization of police and the repression it ends up happening with in black and brown working class communities on an organization. And I'm in that the member organization of the black alliance for peace is Pan African Community Action Paca here in Washington d.c. And one of the campaigns that we have this also within the policy platforms of the movement for black lives is community control over police asserting that the communities that have these armed forces in them should be able to decide who these armed forces are what the priorities of those armed forces are who gets to be a police what happens if they do something you know misconduct if they get fired should have the power to do that not abdicate it to review boards or oversight or anything but actually have a democratic process of community control over publicly the a police which is something that that it's possible to have and should be the democratic right of people and we're not the only ones doing of this other formations around the country that are calling for community control of the police which is a just thing that just power and takes it hands out of the traditional legacy of the police grow out of and make put check to serve a real policy versus some kind of public relations ploy and so those are the kind of things that we have going on and I think people should check into that and look at the history and the role of purpose and how the militarization of the police in the u.s. To dictate to militarize the world how they're related absolutely well community control of police we've been talking on the show about community control of banks you know public control of utilities the community control of police seems absolutely of a piece with that you know it seems like an idea that 10 years ago I'm not sure what people would have said but I think folks are are more than ready to have that kind of conversation right now every I can say with the history of it goes back to the Black Panther Party in the sixty's they actually got it as a referendum on the ballot which is what we're trying to do in ballot initiative and almost one in Oakland I think is California but I'm not sure if it was Oakland specifically and it had to be at least advertised and some of the campaign for for them to lose they lost by a very close margin but that's what his. Comes from the work that you're doing is linking of course you know black people in the United States and in Africa and Al elsewhere and I think seeing Americans through an international prism you know and thinking about communities that are affected by police brutality in the way that they would be looked at by a u.n. Ruppert turf for example it's an unusual position I think for a lot of u.s. Citizens and I think it's a useful prism it's a hopeful way forward I think to think about making these connections across across national borders yes it is and it's very necessary to help people get out of the American Exceptionalism the economy manifests itself in more than the obvious ways just the the fact that the United States can put sanctions on a country for a silk from so-called But never one purpose and have no more moral authority or that said Mysie to be able to do such a thing and then have the troops all around the world on the kinds of u.s. Command forces the networks all around the world and at the expense of people here in terms of the basic human needs in things like universal health care and education that they could be funding and also at the expense of the safety and livelihood of people outside of this country so we really have to think what you mentioned this our effort to try to establish a real internationalism we've been speaking with not so free men events coordinator and policy analyst at the Institute for Policy Studies that's a Freeman thank you so much for joining us this week on counter spin Thank you. And that's it for a counter spin for this week counter spin is produced by fair the national media watch group based in New York if you missed part of today's show or you'd like to hear previous shows you can find shows and transcripts on our website it's fair dot org The show's engineered by Alex noise I'm joining Jackson thanks for listening. Counter stance. To 2nd some of the most time proven form. On their song go I'm going to read a piece that I wrote last year one that will be up at 3 o'clock in the morning and wouldn't let me stop writing until it was finished. Suppose you know who I am or whatever you ever heard of this is true you know who I am at least you should by now many times I've done my best to keep myself hidden but you can spot me if you really want to another along here scruffy looking motorcycle do. A lot of ride and then is a freedom when I got out of the garage I wouldn't settle for anything else. And the real quiet doesn't often participate if I look at you it all gets into your eyes through the back of your head and off into the distance they call it the 1000 yard stare want to know what I see maybe not unless you're sure you're ready. I'm that c.e.o. Of that multi-million dollar Express Company I came back from the jungle and hit the ground running. I've exercised all my demons or have. And a little you seen me living on the outside of town I'm closer to my dog than I and the people I'm sure I like some people but not too much 30 years ago many of my friends left suddenly without saying goodbye. So I've learned not to get too close. I used to be a nurse till I can stand the pain any longer. We met during Tet a 60 a. What almost all of them who came in on a bloody stretcher. After all these years I still remember your face and wonder how you went on you know who I am in. I went away some years ago only parts of me came back you could dig me out of her out of thousands I'm the one who's had gray hair since he was 20 years old when you come into the room I'll be the guy sitting with his back against the wall. I don't like surprises especially loud ones or the ones that come from behind me. So look for me at the parades. Or the other flag waving events that had it with all the drill teams but searching out maybe give it a tall but it's not going to be easy for some like me. Those dark places where my still hides are often too scary especially for me. And I remember when you spit on me and called meaning. So it's hard for me to trust. Or to feel safe. But if you get me to talk just listen really listen. I've got some great stories. Make it does your self laugh. All turn you into sobbing mass with tales of my losses I'll make your heart come while it was fear I. Open up my chest and show you that spot where that big missing chunk of my heart is to be. Maybe I'll even show you my scars if you have x. Ray vision of fill you with the regime that I had inside maybe so much still that you would never send another. Generation of young people like. To a place like that. You know land. On your lover and your brother. Your sister your wife. I'm your ex and I'm your future and everywhere and I'm anywhere. Frankly I'm the one who helped make it. Where you are. And I don't wanna be found. I can be nowhere. But don't stop looking. Or this. I'm out here really. And good afternoon welcome to open forum I'm Jim and I'm manual and Tomorrow is Veterans Day So as we do every year we do this show will be observing Veterans Day Yeah and it be nice to hear from veterans you know that's kind of why we do the show you know so if you want to call and tell your story or just make some comments feel free to do so 9 through 339112 or if you're of related to or if you had had experiences in your life with veterans and you want to talk about it give us a call we'll be glad to talk with you. Anyway here we are again yes we are and who don't forget that this is a special day there's a whole group a whole new group. Of veterans since the last year we did yeah you know some of them are still alive even. But you know this continues to go on it's endless war nonsense that we live with now is absolutely ridiculous. But it seems like this is the you know it's a profit making situation you've got to remember that there's a lot of money involved and lot of people are getting filthy rich behind this stuff by buying and selling weapons and all kinds of stuff like that manufacturing new kinds of weapons better ways to kill people you know they were always coming up with something better you know this is the way it is and I see the phone thing is over I'm going to put you right on the air. Anyone here I just want to say I was going to go on all sides now but I'm sure glad you guys are on the air I was I was a vet my one year I almost went into the u.s. Marines but I didn't get a chance to do it because I was gay and it was 974 they would have welcomed you with open arms. Well I talked to achieve was there any sense then you don't want to go out there right now the whole fleet is in. There just all in an uproar he said you don't want to go out there and I said Ok I guess I'm not going to go out and see the world this year. My name's Chris Bailey I do live in Southern humbled area originally from Southern California My dad actually grew up in the Hollywood Hills he was a Hollywood pilot flew people on the u.s.o. But he was also part of the grim reapers the 5th Air Force. Sanka personally sank in as b. 266 Japanese ships 3 combatants into maroon. And I'm not pretty proud about that at all he was in either. Of the 10000 mile look on his face the alcoholic I'm the son of hand and served 3 wars for his country but I do have to give a shout out to my my mom and dad they're the greatest people on your Earth he was part of strategic air command of 60 and why I bring this to your attention is aisles of the Marines. Uncle and a bunch of Norwegian uncles their own World War 2. And. You know I'm proud of my dad I'm proud of all the things he did that were right and he did a lot of things that were wrong but the one big thing that came out of all of this thinking morass of World War 2 to Vietnam and now all these messes we're in overseas is that I got my head straight with. A something I manufactured myself which I keep bringing up to your attention because I'm trying to help the vest out there as a people have suffered from p.t.s.d. And bipolar I put 3 use constituents together which I will tell you but they are right now which is Chinese read Jen's thing and St John's Wort and Limon balm all herbs. Mixed together into double o. Pills and taken orally in equal amounts and that will clear up your p.t.s.d. You know clear if you're bipolar without It's one of the Isley you guys from doing what you do now to save as many vets as we can from going down that long lonely single gunshot in the middle of the night we're trying to save the vets and really honestly. Godspeed you guys and you guys have a great Veterans Day Hey thanks for the call Man not. Hey you're on the air. Next now yeah now. I hear this other guy talking now he's done and you've got you've got your radio on is one of the little there's a little bit of a delay right let me turn it off real quick I go ahead I'm there right now Ok go ahead I jam I you know I'm a Vietnam veteran it goddamn war is done over read it it's not our is sell a good timber war and this county in Mendocino County. Better than cameras to be honest Thank you. Did you hang up yeah I had to answer the phone so I didn't catch any of it was a short message. Ok Go for the one now yeah you're on Ok but I just wanted to say that I was really inspired by Monday morning Monday morning magazine last Monday had a few veterans on there. And they were talking about our veterans hall and Garberville Yeah and how the county let that thing get leaky and Cosmo. Turned out they really couldn't or didn't want to afford a great upgrade. And we need at home we had. Thanksgiving dinners there we had Christmas dinners there with Santa Claus. Every minute there you know we organized all kinds of stuff I mean there would be the yeah the v.f.w. And American Legion in the Veterans for Peace and I think there was even another organization anyway so what what you know we know about stress in p.t.s.d. And I've been studying this. How it affects our health and the stress does in. That and what I found out working with that trend in during our Vietnam project was that we actually passed on p.t.s.d. To our children the next generation and those who were our veterans of victims or veterans ourselves and it goes back our way the beginning of our country and beyond that our country listener this country has p.t.s.d. Yeah you think so I think so yeah so in any way that that's that was my main myth you we get are better call back and let's get that effect and get together and demand that things back you know it sounds like everything I've heard they have other plans for that building well I'm sorry about that never going to short trip that you bet it's not really fair to the veterans that are coming back from the lead in the thin stupid words like you said. You know they're good they need a place to get together they don't need some little room up to the side of this giant billing made for the county and not for the veterans Yeah you know if veterans need to know that they are loved and appreciated Halo sometimes they just need a space to be by themselves yeah and each other yeah and you all have that space once they turn it into some kind of. Needing center for everybody in the county Yes we know they're doing that and yeah you'd like you to be there by them but nobody can really like that and if you say no one up in Fortuna Yeah it's that big network. Yeah so I listen to that just a little bit. The thing that was on Monday morning and the space it was. Going to be allotted to the vets is how big was at very like a broom closet like a 100 square feet yeah and it here you know what it is it's. There. Just sweeping you out the doors what they're doing I used to go there to the vets off to for a while to the meetings and I remember the bunker. Ok there's nothing now and it's like a kind of bugs me you know if you go or go to Eureka. They've got their spot big place Yeah and in 4 to nowhere truly burns me you know and down here what do we get we going to get. A broom closet where you get to get the same thing that you get in every other aspect of the county this is the this is the the disposable part here yeah and you know we're veterans go and they come from more they go out in the middle of the hills and then got a lot of veterans out here in the yeah and they need contact they need connection and because you know we are all need that you know emotionally and Eric thing you know it affects our very health and and the county you know is acting like. A step father amusing angry violent step father who's using the minute you know isn't even connected with his own feeling Yeah it's a just like he would it's a burn dood. So with all of the Burns we're going to fight for so I knew it but I know that you guys good to hear that bud and you should we should encourage everybody to start bombarding them with phone calls and often saying we're not going to put up with there are enough people that are. People in trades people that worked in the building trades I did for. Forever except for my period of time in Vietnam I was a drywall guy and a painter you know and I know that there's a bunch of carpenters and people from every part of that effect until a building material yeah we could we could take that thing and and redo it in the heck with those people I let them have their own let them take care of their cop shop somewhere else and live put a stale somewhere she John there in red waste got an office down there and give us back what is ours Yeah and you know like for instance like in the cold weather we had licked people in there so they could not die have the freezing cold. Yeah well they've got anything they don't have that we can get together but Thanksgiving Day. You know I went down there I want to say. I I went down there and worked at the vets hall for Thanksgiving. You know and you know I got to say this it was awesome it was the best one of the best Thanksgivings I ever spent was down there helping out the people that were coming in that man the amount of humanity that came in there to be to eat dinner Yeah it shocked me we had 300 people you know it was huge man in it was a great thing and that is going to happen How's it going to happen if they take everything away oh we're going to use We're going to be we're going to fix this up but it's not going to be for you it's going to be for yeah the copshop the Planning Commission the Planning Commission you know let them go off somewhere else wherever they've been before and give us back our building and you know we picked and we internalize the feeling that you know I mean unconsciously even like that down they that with how they regard it. Like that when they hear about it really well then they're not connected how good how are they going to give an arm they're not going to they're going to be here and you know we begin shaft for years this is just a local shaft job yeah you know take care you. You know. Care you know thanks for the call me and yeah yeah but Bye bye. Yeah it's like nothing new Nah man is the same oath and look at the garbage you had to go through with the v.a. To get any help at all Pamela brought this to my attention to for forget she is you know she says there was a lady up on Facebook that her dad just died and he died from Agent Orange and cancer from Agent Orange and and right now she said you can you see because they were connected to that Vietnam photo club and I'm telling you man it's like every week there's just a bunch of people usually they're kids because the. They're they're gone the parents are you know and then. They're dad died and all these people right now are starting to bail out from Agent Orange like another big group of people that stuff never leaves you in it seems like it's it takes a long time for it to take it out you know and it's like. This thing is in Insidious war that you get back here you come back to the world and you go Man I'm so lucky I'm still here and that I made it home you know and then down the road here this is down the road where we're at and all of a sudden you're coming up with weird kinds of cancer in that the taking people out and it's from b.n. I told you I would I ask a guy I said What the heck is that what the spray and you know there's another kind of out of the an aircraft that was flying and he said well they're spraying for mosquitoes he didn't know enough and you know and they didn't weren't spraying for mosquitoes poet killed the mosquitoes to meet him. Because yeah. You're on the air . This is Jim and McKinley Bill I just want to. Address the idea of p.t.s.d. Which because I studied positive thoughts now mean to me positive thoughts succeed delightfully so they don't go right into having other. Trauma that the so so I kind of. Watch my triggers and I also want to remind people that years ago there used to be you know Alicia shellshocked in the combat. But what they're doing now with me I got a rating. With moral injury p.t.s.d. I mean I was raised in you know religion I was raised in the Cub Scouts Boy Scouts where patrol and then 1000 not kill and then go someplace where you have to be part of what's killing there's kind of something that happens to you and that's where moral injury comes from so you don't have to have seen someone die or that type of thing but you can know that you participated in the death of others. Reading your p.t.s.d. So there's all of this say that you know I think you've got all this because Soledad will continue to serve in a different it's called Soledad. Is what it is yeah. I don't think I saw guys I think my thought was living. Well you know it takes to it takes time to do. You said triggers I would I would have an event happen every year and it would be so nice start getting depressed and feeling just really super down you know what I mean and then it would start it would just ask the late and I'd be going on and on and on and over the years I figured out oh here it comes again. It that thing it just you think it's lay in Dharma it's dormant somewhere but every so often it comes up and it just it just takes me it takes me completely over but I've learned to Brecon nice what it was and that I couldn't I get myself out of that weird place you know but it don't ever go. Yeah yeah you're doing a pattern interrupt Yeah in so if once once you realise what's going on. You can get it out of your head and it will go away but it seems like it never completely goes away and it's and it's the same thing I would think I was I was raised in a Mormon family and you know elect most Western religions you know it's. Not Kill and love your love everybody you know in and I remember having a pod dray at the Army base when I was going through a I t. And he was trying to convince us that it was Ok to kill people and he used the analogy that they're just a few clicks out of a cave you know these people and it was like nobody in the broom was buying his message you know it was. It's a negative of what the way that you're raised. Ok you. Do it with dignity that's exactly but but a person here person there there's a reason we're still here that's right now we're here to spread the message thank you thank you make it thank you Paul I'm going to hang up Ok thanks for the call. You know. Yeah I mean if the thing you've got to remember is that it started it's even if you even if you were never in any kind of combat situation at all if you went through basic training the whole purpose of basic training was to completely crush your spirit so that you would be pliable and he could make you into whatever they wanted to make you into. You know and that in is in itself is enough to push a lot of people over the edge and I saw some people go off completely and they ended up in a strange mental facility where we never saw him again they just disappeared well in Brazil in 8 say minutes they have to totally break down your ear to build you into what they want to make you be able to. Run toward the fire that has some value going to other color. Hello guys. I'd like to say that is far as p.t.s.d. Goes you know I think that there are triggers you know. And I think a lot of people that have lived here in this county were severely triggered by this recent aberration the National Guard helicopters I know I was. You know because it's like in 91 Yeah I was sitting in the grove with these yelling now got 9 broken ribs is luckily alive but still I'm telling you when I heard even just they were coming back it created this like wave of feelings in me that I just really get freaked out about and I mean that's after living 330 years raising 6 children under the helicopter blades and that's not normal not a normal way to have to raise children no you know I know had you known ited States of America is that a normal way to raise children you both tell me and then you can all read about me in the lying book called hobbles a life in the marijuana frontier but I'll tell you what the better book about me is the one about teachers the role in the classroom written by Ray Rafi l. I'll take my answer off the air I love you boys whatever you went through and will go through because you're brave you know and some people in this county are very brave they have to be Thanks a lot for the whole thing I love you but I back. Your own yeah Yes Good afternoon my name is Josh a and I'm here in shelter Co I just wanted to invite veterans and their loved ones to our Shelter Cove community that runs dinner tomorrow night at 6 pm at our little local clubhouse. Of the dinner is free to veterans and then it's up for donations for everyone else and it's the whole that is giving spread. So we just want to take tomorrow evening as a community to honor our veterans and their families than those who are no longer with us. You know whether we agree with the policies or not I definitely recognize the sacrifices that are the need so I just want to put that out there to join us if you feel like I'm not to come over if you're out here please join us for talks and then I took my night I What time was it 6 pm 6 o'clock Yes Hey thanks a lot for doing that yeah yeah thank you guys god you're so that's what a call like. And you're on the air oh hello I am sorry about my voice I'm very sick and I'm also going to p.t.s.d. That is for quite some years but it has nothing to do with being in the war but I can tell you that my my stepfather when he went to the Philippines. He had listed unfortunately and when he was there. It was just a total nightmare for him and his body. And I think I had mentioned this quite a while back when he turned around to look at his friend when they were in the trench there his friend was missing from the neck up. And my stepfather went into complete shock he read the whole Bible and said there's so much murder even in the Bible we couldn't figure out why God would allow that and then finally he got out and when he did a few years later. When I forget what person it was I think I know but I'm not going to say just case wrong had called off the war and said it was nonsense that it was saw a losing battle and so he got to come back and every 4th of July for a while he would drop to the floor in his home. And because of the noise Yeah and then he started stuttering he was Studdard ever since he got out of there and stuttered until the day he died at the age of 60 or 61. And then my eldest miles to say one of my relatives he became a sniper I praye injury went through training thought of well I'm either going to kill myself or go into training because he was so depressed about his life and his friends here what we did as and him so he went into training and when he was entering. It was it was pretty tough and he sent us a picture of him in the hospital Albany stuff with his legs in the air and everything and he looked like the mommy trying not to make a joke out of it but he looked so swell and said red ants he had to drop to the ground when they were entering and supposedly they were firing rubber bullets. Add the troops to see if they could drop to the ground in time and so he didn't land on an ant hill and they shoot him up so bad that he he was in bad shape so he said a supposed to graph and during training one of his friends died drowned they didn't save him. And a couple of his friends committed suicide sorry to say this but they did that with just during training and so anyway my son finally got out of there he said I couldn't kill anybody I just couldn't do it. So that's what happened the Yemen Haiti. So I just feel so sorry for everybody that goes through p.t.s.d. And it does drown the health down and isolation like what I'm doing now is terrible I can't get a hold of Buck Rogers because I don't have you know I've got to see Ella page phone book I don't have a regular phone book. For a sniper so I guess I could call the operator but God bless all of you and we are not supposed to be killing people just because somebody orders us to go into battle or or called in the draft which could happen again who know Anyway I'll let you go in the end this week you know the column Ok thanks for the call Thank you so much I. Right it is time to go one you're listening to and unity government on 91 point one f.m. In h.d. One k. M. U. e V car k. To 88 point one f.m. n a C one k. L. a I laid down 90.3 f.m. K 2580 Q shelter code 99.5 and came to that orgy on the web and came I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of the business underwriters for their content new support of community radio it's easy to become a Cayman underwriter and it's a great way for our community of listeners to learn about your business for more information contact underwriting represent of Julia by e-mailing a huge e w k mud dot org or calling 707-123-2513 during the week when the business office is open and I got a couple of lost dogs here. They're male and a female or both their neutered. Pit Bull mix up then their black one's name is Lulu it's a female is 40 pounds the other one is Trevors or is 80 lb they on the bows 3 years old they have black collars on with tags they were let last around on the 6th round Branscombe if you see either of these 2 dogs call Karen at 707-234-4173. And back you know it is it's just the madness is unbelievable it really is you know I mean this. It's gotten so more so much more extreme even then when we were involved it's so much more extreme now it's just it's just crazy you know and it's happening all over the place and they're constantly coming up with new ways oh we're going now that the idiot in charge says well we're going to bring the troops home from Syria. Yeah right Ok but we decided maybe better if we sent him over here to guard this oil Oh yeah I mean it's.