Hinojosa drugrelated killings continue at an alarming rate throughout mexico, and the violence is now spilling across the border into the United States. Mexico bureau chief for the Dallas Morning News alfredo corchado. Im maria hinojosa. This is one on one. Alfredo corchado, you are the Mexico Bureau chief for the Dallas Morning News. As such, you spend a lot of your time covering drug dealers, the traficantes, the narcos, the kidnappings. This was not the mexico that you would have been reporting on 20 years ago. Its a whole new mexico. Well, i actually came to mexico, and my real passion back then was covering immigration, covering the usmexico relations. And when i left mexico in 2000, i left mexico for washington, because i thought the story had died in mexico, you know . Hinojosa the immigration story. The immigration story, but also, you know, mexico now had democracy in the year 2000. And so i figured that maybe the story was going to be washington and mexico city. So i moved to washington. Three years later, september 11 comes around, theres no mexico story. I mean, theres no real us policy to mexico. And i returned to mexico, and my first assignment was to cover the women of juarez you know, who was killing the women of juarez . Hinojosa and right now were talking about, in terms of the women who have been murdered in the city of juarez, which is on the mexico side of the border. Right, right across el paso, texas. Hinojosa right across. And were talking about 400plus women now . I mean, some estimates have it as over 300, some say 400. Most of them. I mean, the vast majority of the cases have never been solved, just like, you know, most crimes in mexico. And it was then that i realized, wow, you know, this is a different mexico. Hinojosa so that was a time span of what, like, maybe five years . No, a span in time of three years. I mean, from 2000 to 2003. And what happened, i think, is the pri. I mean, you had a government for 71 years, a oneparty rule, where the system, the security, if you will, was more preoccupied with protecting the system, protecting the pri, and not really looking after the welfare of the citizens. Hinojosa and the pri, just so people know, its the revolutionary institutionalized party, which was the dominant party for. 71 years. Hinojosa 71 years. I mean, authoritarian, semiauthoritarian rule. And so thats what happened. I mean, the institutions did not work anymore, did not function anymore. And when i went back to mexico, i had colleagues who would joke and say, youre coming back for la nota roja, you know, the cirme story, et cetera. But no, to me it was really the story of a political transition. It was mexico in evolution. And its been, in many ways, kind of the massacre of mexico, you know . A bloody, necessary, but obviously very, very painful transition. Hinojosa wow, ive never heard it described like that, the massacre of mexico. So when people. When you hear this thrown out, that mexico could be a failed state, that the Mexican Government could, you know, somehow implode, when you hear things, are you saying, never happen, or are you thinking, we have to really talk about that seriously . I mean, i dont think its there. I mean, i do think it can happen. But if theres anything that. I dont even want to use the word positive. I mean, if theres anything thats semigood about this its that at least both governments are now dealing with reality, and not the finger pointing that weve seen. Hinojosa well, there was a big moment when. With Hillary Clinton going down as secretary of state where she basically says, we have a responsibility in this. Right, right. Hinojosa in mexico, how was that taken, after years of essentially the Bush Administration saying. Barely dealing with it, saying, its your problem, when Hillary Clinton, secretary of state Hillary Clinton, goes down there and says, we have to look at our drug usage. And i dont remember if she brought up the issue of guns. Yes. Yes, she did. Hinojosa what. How did that go over in mexico, when you have the United States saying, we bear some responsibility here . It was like, you know, speaking spanish , you know, finally. Hinojosa really . Finally. Because, i mean, what were seeing in mexico today is nothing different than what weve seen or experienced in bolivia, peru, colombia. I mean, its a very old story. But i think finally the americans are realizing that, wait a minute, we are part of the problem. And it took mexico. I mean, it took the issue to come to americas, you know, doorsteps for the us goverment to finally realize this is about coresponsibility. I mean, it takes two of you. Hinojosa do you. When you hear people talking about this kind of. I dont know if ive heard the word flood, but, you know, the violence creeping over the border, coming into the United States, and ive heard some people say, you know what . Too alarmist. May have happened here or there. As someone who works on this issue all the time, is it true . Are we seeing a crossover of this violence from mexico into the United States . Its a spillover, but i think that maybe some of the reports have been a little bit overexaggerated, you know, a massive spillover of violence. I think the spillover up to now has been much more of people leaving one side, you know . I think as a journalist, one of the things that im concerned about is how we take cities like Ciudad Juarez or tijuana, we say, the juaraz cartel, or the tijuana cartel, or the gulf cartel, when in reality, because its such a transnational situation, it should be called the el pasojuarez cartel, or the dallasgulf cartel. Hinojosa really . This is the first time that im hearing that. Or the latijuana cartel. Because there is a spillover, not necessarily always about violence, but corruption, you know, people fleeing one side, going to the other side. There is an impact on both sides. Hinojosa and you have uncovered a lot of these stories. I mean, you uncovered a big story that showed that basically american officials were invoed with some shady business around not only immigration, but also trafficking. Right. I mean, and thats become more and more common, you know, on the us side. I mean, again, it takes two to tango. You cant. You know, drugs dont just magically leave mexico, and then hola, theyre in the us. I mean, youre going to have to pay some people off. Hinojosa so you. Honestly, alfredo, i have such respect for you, because as a fellow journalist. And i do a lot of stuff, but wanting to go into deep investigative reporting about drug cartels might not be the thing that id like to be spending my time on. And yet thats what you have to do. And its. I mean, when i became a journalist, i. One of the promises i made to my parents was that i would never cover Drug Trafficking. Hinojosa are you kidding me . You told that to your parents . Well, my parents had a small restaurant right in. South of el paso, two, three blocks from the border. And at one point there was a person who had offered my father money to store merchandise, you know, overnight. And the money was, like, Something Like 3,000 a month, you know, which was incredible. When. We had just arrived in el paso. We didnt really know the dynamics. And when we finally found out that this guy was talking about drugs cocaine, marijuana he said, there is a price. If the authorities find out, you know, we wont take it out on you, well take it out on your sons or your daughters. Hinojosa oh, my gosh. And so from that point on, when i told my dad, i said, i want to become a journalist, he says, just never cover Drug Trafficking. And for the longest time, i did follow that advice, not just because of my father, but because i really wasnt that interested in the issue. But again, its become the kind of issue that no one, i mean, no one, whether youre a journalist or a cop or you cant ignore the issue anymore, because it is threatening, i think, the very stability of the country. Hinojosa well, in fact, as a journalist, journalists in mexico have been told by their editors, we are not going to cover the Drug Trafficking story. Were not going to cover it. So what does that mean for you, alfredo . It. I mean, i have a lot of friends, you know, some of whom are journalists. And it means, i guess a sense of moral responsibility. Because oftentimes i will get calls from journalists who i do know well, who i trust, who will say, look, we cant print this, but heres whats going on. And so there is a sense of, you know, you have to find a way to do it. Hinojosa but youre like the last bastion. Right, the last bastion of hope, especially for the border, for the border region. Theres so much censorship along the usmexico border that. And its not just a censorship because of the drug cartels, but also because, obviously, the industrys going through some hard times, theyre cutting back on bureaus, so there is a void of information. You know, oftentimes you go to a place like Ciudad Juarez, and people kind of gravitate to the mercados, you know, and listen to people playing corridos, and maybe theyll get a little tip of whats going on in the neighborhood you know, who killed who last night and why. Hinojosa thats how. So wait a second. So youre telling me that right now there may occur killings, and people cant read about it in the newspaper, so they go to the market to maybe get a sense of what the gossip is about what the murder was about . What the gossip is, either from norteno groups or from the local merchant or someone else, you know . Hinojosa just so we are clear, norteno groups play music, a style called norteno, where its basically a ballad, and theyre telling stories. Or narcocorrido, that comes from the local. You know, local flavor, the local news. Its like the local choir, you know . And yes, i mean, that is whats happening. Theres so much control over news that. And some cartels are very sophisticated about that. I mean, they will buy you. You know, they will buy a spokesperson, they will hire a spokesperson, who will actually call newspapers every day. I mean, his or her job is to call the local editors, the local news directors, and say, this story cannot run tomorrow. Or if it runs tomorrow it must be inside. Hinojosa okay, wait, wait, wait. So youre saying that you have. The cartel is at such a level of sophistication now that its run essentially like a corporation, where theyve got public spokespeople who used to be journalists who have now been bought off . Absolutely. Hinojosa i mean, that just sounds crazy. Youve got. Youve got journalists who are acting as spokespeople for cartels . Oh, its. You know, its the old saying, speaking spanish , you take the money or you take the lead. And a lot of of people, i mean, dont have that choice. I mean, its not a real easy choice, you know . Hinojosa and what other ways do you see kind of. I mean, again, because youre so deep inside this kind of reporting, and we dont really hear it so much on this side of the border, when were talking about cartels, you know, people have this image of kind of, you know, i guess the Pablo Escobar cartel, kind of ragtag, you know, making a lot of money, but not so sophisticated. When youre talking about a drug cartel in mexico, what exactly are we talking about . You know, can you compare it to a corporation . You can compare it to a corporation, because they think very. You know, you have the people who are in charge of pushing drugs across the us, you have people who are in charge of killing, speaking spanish , you know, the killers. And then you have the Public Relations side you know, the people who will. Information is very, very critical. And so you need someone whos going to make sure that the message gets out, and that the right message gets out. Hinojosa what could possibly be the right message for a cartel on a given day . The right message is, we are the most violent cartel, and we are the bosses, and we control the city, we control the mayor, and our rules are the rules, you know . Hinojosa so theyll actually put some of their spokespeople to say, make it clear that we control the mayor . Or not necessarily control the mayor, but for example, you know, theres a story tomorrow that. We want a story about how theres so much military abuse, and it has to be on the front page. Because theyre savvy enough to know that in Washington People look at that very closely, you know, military abuse. And im not saying that all these cases are false. I mean, there are some legitimate complaints. Hinojosa right, but are you saying that there are editors who will then say, okay, were going to put this on the front page . Oftentimes they have no choice. Hinojosa they have no choice . They have no choice. Hinojosa if they dont put this story on the front page . There are ramifications. They may kidnap you, they may kidnap your daughter, they may bomb your building, they may kill your reporter, they may kill your editor. Hinojosa how can you possibly have a functioning commmunity of journalists in that kind of a situation . I mean, its very difficult. It is very. I mean, thats why today i think mexico is the most dangerous place in the americas to do journalism. Especially along the usmexico border. Hinojosa thats where you are, alfredo. Right. Hinojosa thats what you do. So. And thats why i left for a year. Hinojosa and thats why you left and came to boston for a year. How much do you worry about. I mean, you know, as journalists, were kind of, like. Were doing our job, were doing our thing. Its not like youre always looking over your shoulder. But are you looking over your shoulder . Well, not here. Not in cambridge. But it is something that i worry about a lot, and i dont think theres a day that goes by nowadays that i dont think about that, and about how much deeper do i want to get, you know, back into. Because look in the end, being six feet underground, its not going to help anyone. So you have to find a way to do the story and be able to live another day to tell the next story. Hinojosa so how do you do it . I mean, again, when im thinking, like, okay, im a journalist, ive done investigative work, i do it all the time. I wouldnt know where to begin in terms of doing an investigative piece on narcotraffics, or the cartels. I mean, who do you call . How do you do that kind of reporting . A lot of sourcing. I mean, its a lot of sourcing. Hinojosa but a lot of sourcing means you spend a lot of time developing relationships. Developing relationships with the right people. And thats really the key, is whos the right people . Hinojosa who can you trust . How many people, you know, will be happy to take you and have you killed, or have you disappear . But, you know, i want to stress that what we go through as Foreign Correspondents, American Foreign correspondents, is nothing compared to what our mexican colleagues go through. I mean, theyre stuck there. They have to live that, you know, day by day. We have the luxury of coming in, parachuting in, and leaving. Im not saying its not difficult, but, i mean, it is, i think, a big, big difference in terms of security, personal security. Hinojosa so why do you keep doing it, alfredo . I mean, youre at the level in your career where you could say to your editors, you know what . Base me in who knows where, but not mexico city. Ive asked that question myself, you know, i think for the past 300something, 60 days. I dont really have a clear answer. I mean, i do have. Feel a huge responsibility. And i think as a Foreign Correspondent theres no way that you can overlook this story. Can you do things differently . I mean, because, i mean, i go back a lot now, and i think, okay, did i really have to go that extra mile for that story . Will i do it again . And i dont think i will. And i also think that its time for us as journalists to also look at the us side you know, whats happening here. And thats. I think thats reallyhe most overlooked story, the story that we havent really covered. Hinojosa which is American Drug consumption, the american gun business, essentially. What other part of the story . Corruption on the us side. Hinojosa because its very easy to look at corruption in mexico, but its hard to actually see corruption happening here. Its very easy to blame, and not really look at yourself. And again, you know, that, i think, is the good part of the story, is that finally both societies are looking deeply, you know, into themselves. Mean, mexicans cant point the finger anymore at the United States and say, the consumption is in the us. I mean, its now in monterey, its in mexico city, its in Ciudad Juarez, you know . Guadalajara, and on and on and on. Its. The fight in mexico today is no longer just about controlling distribution routes to the us, but also about controlling communities. You know, who sells who to your local community. Hinojosa all right, so given all of this, and given the fact that theres a relationship between these two counties that is now acknowledged, there has been a bit of an opening on a pic at w. Is hugy controversial, which is the legalization of drugs. And in mexico, there has been increasing dialogue about this. What do you think about that, when you hear that . Do you think if we legalized it the cartels would just disappear, or if we legalize it thats just going to empower them even more . I mean, theyll have money, theyll be something legal. I mean, i think itll help, but i dont think legalization in the end is really the answe i mean, itll help both sides. Especially for mexico, is lack of institutions. I mean, lack of rule of law, impunity, a very weak judicial system. And until mexico addresses that. And that may take years. I mean, were not talking about, you know, calderons last three years, president calderon of mexico. Were talking about decades. Its going to take a long time, because if its not drugs today, it might be Something Else tomorrow. Hinojosa do you feel like in mexico there is a will for that . I mean, certainly among the population theres a will to want to resolve this. But is there a will to say, this really means weve got to change our institutions, our judicial system, weve got to work on this . Is there that kind of a will . Ive been, you know, looking very closely at calderons approval ratings. And they still hover in the 6560 , which tells me maybe that people do want him to do what hes doing. But thats, i think, the real key question, is how long will this will last . That, i think, will really tell us a lot about mexican will how much can they tolerate . You know, three years into calderons term, more than 11,000 people have been killed. And its not just narcotrafficking. I mean, theres a lot of innocent civilians who are being. Hinojosa which is actually the question i was going to ask you. I mean, there were some journalists who i spoke to who said, younow, there is a t of violence,ut wn yre taing about drug violence, its very specific. Its not just random people getting caught in the crossfire, its very specific violence that is directed by the cartels you kill my enemy, my enemy, you know, then comes back. is it like that, or is it that anyone, essentially, can. I think for the most part it is like that. But inevitably youre going to have innocent people caught in the crossfire. And not just mexicans i mean, americans too, especially along the usmexico border. Youve had people from el paso, young. You know, young kids recently, who were killed. I mean, and the other thing thats also worrisome is that i think its misleading to call this a drug war, because we havent really seen drug cartels targeting specifically the military. There have been some instances, but its not really an allout assault between, you know, the Government Troops and cartels, which might suggest that the cartels still want to have a pact with the government. You know, they dont really want to go all out. I think when it comes. You know, when it goes all out, its going to get a lot bloodier. Hinojosa but were talking about how many federal troops now have been mobilized with calderon . In Ciudad Juarez alone, about 10,000 troops there. Nationwide, more. I mean, ive heard more than 40,000, more than 60,000 troops. Hinojosa okay, and when you look at these troops, alfredo, do you say, theyre going to do the right thing, or do you look at them and say, how many of them are going to get bought off . And how long before they get bought off . I mean, if you have. Whenever you have the mexican military take over towns, theres always the initial reaction, which is like a parade, you know . The troops are going into the city, and people are waving, people feel safe for a few days. And then either its the cartels guerilla war tactics, or the cooption, the corruption that takes place, but sooner or later, i mean, a lot of people. I mean, business goes back to usual. Ciudad juarez, for example. Troops come in in march, the murder rate goes down dramatically from ten to one. Here we are, its back to eight or nine, you know . And this is what, three months . Calderon cannot sustain a policy based just on, you know, sending the military. Again, he has to go. I mean, its really going to take the institutions to take root before. I think before you start seeing real dramatic change in mexico. And thats going to take a long time. Hinojosa what has to happen on this side of the border . What is the dialogue, the conversation, that this country needs to have nationally about this issue that you dont think is happening . Well, i mean, obviously the weapons. The weapon is a big, big deal. You know, more than 90 of the weapons confiscated in mexico come from the us. There are hundreds if not more than 1,000 gun shops just along the usmexico border texas, arizona. Hinojosa so you can basically cross the border from mexico, lets say legally, and you can go and buy a gun in one of these gun shops without a problem . Virtually no problem, yeah. And, i mean, thats a huge problem. I think the other debate that americans have to ask themselves is, you know, currently, overwhelmingly, most of the us money goes into attacking this problem as a police problem, as a criminal problem, enforcement problem. You have to really, i think, go back to. Or think about the treatment aspect. Its a health issue. And i think those are two critical questions that have to be asked before you start seeing some significant change on this side. Hinojosa okay, finally, alfredo, your message to young journalists, okay . Theyre looking at you and theyre saying, hes got a great job, stable, but, my gosh, i dont ever want to do this. Your message to young latino journalists is what . Ill Say Something that ive told other people, is that. Personal experience. When i first received my threats, you know, Death Threats from the cartels, my sense was, it cant be. Im an american journalist, you know . Theyre not going to touch me, because that just brings too much attention. And a us source confirmed that, and said, look, i have good news and bad news. The bad news is that you just dont look american, so be careful. Hinojosa thank you, alfredo. Thank you for all of your work, and for sticking to it. We really appreciate it. And thank you for joining us. My pleasure. Continue the conversation at wgbh. Org oneonone. Captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org [narrator] funding for overheard with evan smith is provided in part by the Alice KlebergReynolds Foundation and hillco partners, a texas Government Affairs consultancy and by klrus producers circle, ensuring local programming that reflects the character and interests of the greater austin, texas community. Im evan smith. 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