That is n.b.c. News Political Correspondent Steve Kornacki Steve welcome back to one day thanks for having me we'll be speaking to Steve for just the 1st part of the program before we move on so we welcome your questions and thoughts for him e-mail us one a w.a.m. You dot org comment on our Facebook page or tweet us at one a Steve I think the foundational challenge that we have going into 2018 is 2016 the fact that so many people still feel very nervous about the pollsters and what they hear from surveys how are you feeling going into 20000 do you feel like the models are better this time. Well I'm feeling like I like everybody else I think in that you know I haven't sent to my head of what I suspect the stories might be. But they will reveal themselves as the votes are counted on as I was eager to watch that play out. As everybody else I have a sense of you know in my own mind of what the data maybe is suggesting but I'm open to the possibility that we're missing something that is incomplete maybe in some way and again that that when we tally the votes we will learn something new so I To me that's sort of the key to all of this you know we can we can try to you know we we do look at the polls we look at the trends we look at the subgroups we look at the the different states different regions different districts. And I think it's important because you know the 2 political parties are both doing that and they're making you know major decisions based on that so we might as well be you know be putting that information out there as well but I think 2016 if you weren't already humbled about what it's possible to know before an election you know to be now the big story line for the midterms is of course whether the Democrats the Republicans will be controlling the House or the Senate that projection is made up of a series of other polls and other projections speaking as someone who kind of digs deep into data for a living is that the. Kind of thing we should even be looking at right now should we just kind of let it happen how are you looking at those surveys Yeah again this is where I think it intersects with how the parties themselves are treating the same data. There's been a number of decisions made by the Republicans in the last month to look at the data from some of these key districts and to withdraw their financial resources. The feeling it's a lost cause feeling the money is better spent elsewhere and to move that money you know elsewhere and there been decisions made by by Democrats in the last month based on the data in a few cases as well when I can think of where they did pull out of a district that that suddenly doesn't look good for them but also to go into new districts that that previously they weren't that optimistic about Try a you know trying to trying to put those into play as well so you know I think just in terms of how that feeds into an expectation that this is pointing towards. Towards the potential of a Democratic takeover You know I think that's a reasonable thing about I think is well it's it's you know one of the challenges with this I think is to to be open with how imprecise it all is I mean I've been I've been saying I think there's a look the Democrats need a net gain of 23 I think even Republicans will concede to you they're going to get pretty far along the way to that $23.00 Republicans hope to stop them just short but that's that's one end of the range or the other end of the range is you know they're way way over and you're talking about a 40 to 50 Gain on their side I want to what you feel like this election this midterm election is about for lack of a better term you know House Speaker Paul Ryan according to Politico called President Trump yesterday asking him to talk up the economy more the president is very intent on focusing on immigration because a lot of heat over this ad about an immigrant who killed police officers that kind of pinned to the top of his Twitter page has very strong racist dog with whistle not. In undertones but overtones although if you look at Google data the number one issue that people are searching on is healthcare solidly What is this election about in your view to me that the question the big question this posed by this election is the lines of division that were revealed in that map the 2016 map the term Clinton map. Are are those lines simply hardening and deepening over the last 2 years. Or are they breaking apart a little bit and what I mean by that is if you if you accept the proposition that it's the Democrats who are playing off ends here in the Republicans who are playing defense and as I said even Republicans will accept that proposition that's just the reality of this race then the question to me becomes Ok Where will those Democratic gains be because there's 2 types of district here as far as I'm concerned broadly speaking one type of district it's controlled by Republicans right now but it's these are districts that voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016 so they already rejected the voters already rejected Donald Trump but they continue to elect Republicans to Congress are we going to see is the story going to be that these were the this was the main source of gains for Democrats just those voters saying you know what I'm now not just rejecting Trump I'm rejecting Trump's party that's one possibility and to me if that's the story that that's where the Democratic gains are limited to then we've got those those lines of division just hardening and deepening But if the story is something more expansive than that in the Democratic gains are not just limited to those Clinton districts but they extend deeply into Trump country into places you know Trump won by 5 points 10 points by more. Then I think we have a different story a broader story in a story about you know there being a little bit more given that map and I think maybe a lot of people's understanding of the country allows for speaking to n.b.c. News Political Correspondent Steve corn Akki glad to get some of your questions and comments to Peter in Arlington Virginia asks is reporting. On polls journalistically irresponsible when your measurement affects behavior you can change the outcome if you see your candidate is a sure to win or loss you may not vote Steve what about the ethics the journalistic ethics of reporting on polls especially polls that a news organization itself has generated Well you know again I view this as. If if politicians if their campaigns if there is a sort of brain trust around a politician has information I would always err on the side of when possible allowing the public to see that same information because whether we like it or not politicians read polls they've commission polls they pay for polls they base their decisions on polls they clearly base Tricky Dick decisions on polls it's also it seems fairly intense Peterbilt to me they. Make their political judgments often with with a heavy heavy bit of the emphasis on what's in the polling so if they're commissioning them if they're looking at them and they're making important decisions based on them then we ought to have some sense of what that date is that they're looking at I wonder also maybe if if part of the the issue and this may be touchy but I I remember a lot of Democrats in the run up to the $26.00 election should reassuring themselves that Hillary Clinton was going to beat Donald Trump by looking at the polls and then when Donald Trump won they blamed the pollsters instead of blaming the Clinton campaign for not winning or it justified all at the Electoral College I feel like to an extent polls have a psychological relationship with us as voters that maybe we have to be responsible for it's interesting and I think to understand the phenomenon you're kind of talking about there about 2016 to go back to 2012 as if you're looking at Democrats and their attitude towards polling in 2016 I think back 4 years earlier maybe was more of a foundational moment for that 2012 campaign where the polls consistently showed Barack Obama leading in the polls consistently. Showed him likely to defeat Mitt Romney and win re-election and you had a pretty vocal contingent on the right of Republicans who were essentially saying Don't believe the polls the polls are missing at the polls are not getting the right voters the sort of thing and they're became this pretty fierce pushback. From the polling community I would say an intern for them not a survey from the polling community but from the sort of the data analyst world against that and Democrats I think by and large enjoyed that back and forth because it certainly you know it felt to them like you know their side was was being represented by the people who had the numbers and then of course the election validated the forecasters validated the data analysts and there might have been an opportunity there for a particular for Democrats just to sort of say hey look we're on the side of you know empiricist I'm here and it triumphed and I think then to take that understanding if that was created in 2012 and apply it to 2016 you had polls showing Hillary Clinton had unlikely to win you had Republicans saying hey you're missing it you're not getting it there's something else going on out there and I think Democrats broadly speaking might have been might have been inclined to think it was a repeat of 2012 right quick Steve before we let you go one more question rad tweeted Is there any evidence that most early voters tend to be Democratic leaning and is that any indication that the high early voting numbers point to Democratic takeover . I mean the question to me with so there's 2 types of early voting generally mail in voting often tends to be in some of the states more more Republican friendly but then the actual early voting where you go to a location you know a Saturday or whatever and you cast your ballot there often tends to be a little more favorable the Democrats the key question to me with early voting it's it's still very much on resolved as are you actually getting any measurable number of voters who wouldn't otherwise participate on Election Day or you just taking increasingly large number of voters who in the past would show up on Election Day because they had to and getting them to cast their. Literally it actually changing the composition of the electorate in a meaningful way and I think even early voting is still a relatively new thing it is very quickly growing and I don't think we have a handle yet on it and so every 2 years we get a lot of. A lot of sort of anecdotal claims about it mean it it may get blown up at election night that's n.b.c. Political correspondent Steve thanks for talking to us thank you we'll get to our conversation with Doris Kearns Goodwin in just a moment I'm Joshua Johnson and you're listening to one from. Every day people from all walks of life square their shoulders and shake up the world N.P.R.'s All Things Considered tries to capture some of that magic dating with Tourette's is really not as big of a deal as somebody could potentially think it might be everybody has some baggage All Things Considered from n.p.r. News later today this afternoon at 3 o'clock on your connection to News and Views k.s.u. K. As she was thankful for Mr and Mrs Charles Hartwick from Jonesborough to give because of the outstanding news priests throughout the day the informative Morning News and Morning Edition and afternoon deep background sessions of here and now an author is considered join the heartbreaks by donating to 91.9 f.m. Show your appreciation for outstanding substituted news by going to k s c dot org slash. I'm Robin Young the final push is on and President Trump is on the campaign trail in full bore attack mode if you want your children to have a cock 3 vote Republican you want to have a country meanwhile Democrats say people really want to hear how they'll keep health care alive but they'd be right next time this afternoon at 1 o'clock on your connection to News and Views a.s.u. Listener supported nonprofit public radio support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from math Naisi I'm committed to changing lives through math by building method chief Mint problem solving and critical thinking skills for thousands of students every day in 900 franchise locations math Naisi m dot com slash n.p.r. And from c.f.p. Certified financial planner professionals committed to providing holistic financial planning from taxes and investments to retirement and estate planning in the client's best interest let's make a plan dot org This is one a I'm Joshua Johnson before we continue let me get to a few more of your comments about the polls and the midterms Kate tweeted I think we're living in a time when polls do us a disservice predictions of easy wins result in bystander effects ultimately deterring voters from bothering to spend their time casting a vote in a race that is projected to already be decided nothing is certain. With regards to voting Stephen Wright's athletes who Neil during the national anthem are said to disrespect our country our flag and veterans who were killed or wounded to ensure that those who Neil have the right to do so there are millions of people who fail to vote by very inaction those millions are disrespecting our flag our country and those who sacrificed far more than a handful of athletes voting is a right but I submit that it is also an obligation you must vote especially since in so many places efforts are being made to prevent people from being able to vote Thanks for all your comments and your questions we welcome whatever thoughts you might have in the run up to Election Day Feel free to leave us a voicemail any time 855-236-1818 we often hear that the USA has seldom been more divided often when the country's found itself at odds with itself a leader has come along to remind us of our common cause and our shared humanity and they work to knit the fabric of America back together but nowadays is that just something for the history books or do the leaders of the past have something to teach us about facing the challenges of today. The newest book from Pulitzer Prize winning historian Doris Kearns Goodwin focuses on 4 presidents Abraham Lincoln Franklin d. Roosevelt Theodore Roosevelt and Lyndon b. Johnson explores how they developed their senses of leadership and how they seem to appear in the darkest hours before the dawn the book is called leadership in turbulent times and she joins us in studio to discuss it Doris Kearns Goodwin welcome to want to thank you I'm very glad to be with you we welcome your questions for her about this book or just about the nature of our presidents across our history comments on our Facebook page tweet us at one a or e-mail one a am you dot org So Lincoln Roosevelt Roosevelt and the 2nd President Johnson Lyndon b. Johnson why these 4 Well 1st of all I knew them I had lived with them over a period of time I awakened with them in the morning I thought about it when I went to bed at night so at least I was starting with a base of knowledge and instead of going to a new president which is what I usually do from $11.00 is finished move all the books out I feel like I'm leaving an old boyfriend behind I decided to keep my guys and look at them through a new lens through the lens of leadership something I've been interested in since graduate school and even in my fat books although I dealt with it partly I never looked directly at when did they think of themselves as leaders whereas emission come from is that the man versus the times all these things we used to debate when I was in graduate school and college and now I could finally do it at the culmination in a certain sense after 50 years of studying having this seems to be this line of scholarship lately about Rethinking Leadership We just had General Stanley McChrystal on about his book regarding leadership which is also a pretty fascinating look at different kinds of leaders noble and ignoble across the years why do you think that there's more being written about leadership is it is a kind of a trump effect or is this just one of those perennial topics that we seem to notice at certain times what I'm certainly hoping at least with this book is that it shines a spotlight on the absence of leadership today if you look at the past leaders and we were when we went through much worse times than we live in now I mean it's. Hard to realize that because while we're living in it now we seem to feel on Mort but just imagine what it was like for Abraham Lincoln coming into office when the country is split in 2 and 600000 people are about to die and he said if he'd ever known the anxiety he would have felt coming in he wouldn't have thought he could have lived in it or imagine Teddy Roosevelt coming in when the Industrial Revolution had shaken up the economy much like the tech revolution and globalization have gone today huge gap between the rich and the poor people in the working class really feeling cut off from the promise of the country almost a revolutionary spirit and then of course f.d.r. Coming in at the height of the Depression and j.f.k. After the assassination j.f.k. Assassination is followed by l.b.j. And in each one of those situations though we had a leader who was fitted for the time and an active citizenry so I'm just hoping that it's not just a question of looking at these people as from yesteryear they're remnants of history that they really can tell us something about what we need to do today how are you defining leadership in the context of this book I think that folks who voted for Donald Trump by and large would say we're under excellent leadership right now and those who voted for Hillary Clinton would say we're heading for a cliff I think the main thing about leadership that I would argue is that it's when the ambition for yourself becomes an ambition for the greater good and it's when you're able to mobilize the country toward some definition of social justice economic opportunity bringing us closer to the ideals of our founding So there is sort of an ethical understanding of leadership you can be a power position person you can move people in a certain direction but my guys as I like to call them I don't mean to be calling them that they moved us toward either economic justice or social opportunity or the greater good your book is kind of written it's almost written like 3 books in one you know a 4 books in one because you break it down into 3 different segments of the book in terms of their earlier years in the fifty's for men as young men and then how they dealt with personal adversity and then how they dealt with the leadership challenges we tend to. No them for Abraham Lincoln with the Civil War Teddy Roosevelt with a coal strike that threatened to leave basically millions of Americans to literally freeze to death Franklin Roosevelt in the 100 days of the Great Depression and of course Lyndon Johnson after the assassination of John f. Kennedy why start by showing us who they were as young men I think the reason I wanted to do that I was in a college campus and a student raised his hand after I was talking about leadership lessons from my guys in the White House how can I ever be one of them he said there to remove there on Mount Rushmore there on the currency so I figured if I could show other people young people as well how these leaders developed how they grew in office because they're going to make mistakes they're going to struggle they're going to fail they're going to have cocky behaviors and they going to have to learn from their mistakes then you can identify with them rather than seeing them already in the White House the other interesting thing earlier that comes up early on and you mention this way early in the book is that and this is one of the similarity between your book and General McChrystal book that makes it so interesting is that these 4 guys were very dissimilar they had almost nothing alike I mean you write about President Lincoln's childhood he was very very poor Teddy Roosevelt Franklin d. Roosevelt grew up at the height of privilege you know he was President Roosevelt born into a man's wealth everything kind of handed to him on a silver platter you know they are different in terms of their physicality ease in terms of what they dealt with were Teddy Roosevelt was this kind of like very protection not not at all athletic and kind of chiseled himself into that guy we think of today you know that's what's really important is no single path I think to leadership but at some point especially in politics each one of these decided this is what I want to be I mean Lincoln was 23 when he ran for office the 1st time amazingly he puts out this statement Everyone has his book you hear ambition mine is to be esteemed of by my fellow man and be worthy of that esteem that's a much more mature understanding of ambition than the others had but then he's. He says I may not win this election in fact I probably might not because not many people know me and I don't have popular relations to recommend me but I promise you if I lose I'm going to try again in fact I'll try 5 or 6 times until be too humiliating and then I promise you I won't try again so you see in him even as an early young candidate that he's got resilience and perseverance qualities that he'll take the end of his life when Teddy runs at $23.00 it's almost handed to him because they want him to run because his father was a wealthy philanthropist and he can add money to the campaign meaning like the party the party bosses and so he runs and he says I'm not running to make people's lives better just an adventure but then once he gets into politics he realizes there are things he's never seen before decrepit tenements there are people living in slums there are children working in factories and he develops an empathy which Lincoln had from birth to want to make things better for other people and I think for Franklin Roosevelt when he 1st comes and again the bosses come to him and said Why don't you run for the state legislature your name is Roosevelt some old people might think you're Teddy so you'll get Republicans and Democrats and he goes into more for the adventure but then once he gets there and he finally gets polio there's a sense in which his warm heartedness and his understanding that other people had also dealt on kind hands and he was one of them he became a much different more empathetic leader so it's really interesting to watch them when they're young and at some point each of them may be Lyndon Johnson when he's 2 years old they decide politics is what is my vocation the inner voice that speaks to me this is what I want to be a Lyndon Johnson as you described in the book his political ambition was Lee's are focused from early on kind of connected to the way he viewed I want to see this from the way he linked success and personal approval particularly from from his family no I think that's right I mean I think some people go into politics or power in order to fill something inside that's not really filled and he felt he needed. To have the approval especially of his mother and then his father was in politics so at 1st politics was just power I mean it's great when he goes to college he decides the way to get power is to get close to people who have power so he mops the floors outside the president of the college's office so he can get to talk to the president and soon you know he's running the president's office but then he too has a formative experience he takes a year off from college and he teaches at a Mexican American school and the young people there are so. So in need of of anything to help them he saw the pain of prejudice on their face he bought them Athletica quit meant he changed their lives by really firing ambition in them and that stayed with him that sense of purpose for power even though it was much later when he really got involved in the civil rights movement we're speaking to Doris Kearns Goodwin historian Pulitzer Prize winning author Her latest book is called leadership in turbulent times let me get to a few of your comments now Brian emailed what all of the presidents were discussing had in common was the ability and courage to lead us where we didn't want to go but needed to go a skill sorely lacking in today's politics of pandering to vision and fear mongering Glenn wrote on our Facebook page empathy strange the most successful leaders of the world's biggest companies all have the opposite trait it depends what leaders goals are I want to ask you about empathy but let me get to one more comment from another listener Joe who wrote on our Facebook page George Lakoff I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly George Lakoff a cognitive linguist has written extensively about how empathy is valued differently between conservatives and progressives he shows that empathy is a value low on conservatives moral value list but at or near the top for progressives on their moral values list I would take issue with Joe because I think supporters of Donald Trump would say he was the most empathetic candidate that's come along in years they would say the Democratic machine had completely ignored them but Donald Trump's ability to reflect their desires their aims their concerns back at them was why he got their vote now I understand what you're saying in fact Teddy Roosevelt. Teddy Roosevelt said that the rock of democracy was going to founder if people in different regions and religions and parties felt as if the other people were the other rather than common American citizens so I think there's no question that President Trump as a candidate reached out to a group of people who felt they were not being listened to by the elite that their concerns had not been understood and he understood there is the problem is that once you win a campaign and you've got that group of people who are depending on you and you feel a sense of what they're feeling then you're hoping that you're going to heal those divisions and you going to reach out to be president of all the people and understand the people who didn't vote for you why did they not and try and bring them to your side when Teddy Roosevelt faced that similar situation of that same stake in a condominium people feeling different from the working class and capitalist people he came out with a square deal for the rich and the poor the capitalist and the wage worker and he took a train around the country not going to just the states where he had one he took 6 weeks every spring and every fall to go to all the places of the country so he could make people feel a sense of common citizenry we have things in common as people he was saying not the things that divide us and I think that's the difference that's where empathy has to stretch beyond a certain group of people to the country as a whole and make us feel connected What about humility how important is humility in terms of the 4 presidents that are profiled in your book huge I mean what humility means is not necessarily humbleness it means the ability to acknowledge your limitations and learn from your mistakes for example when Teddy Roosevelt 1st went into the state legislature he would say he was sort of like Trump in a certain way in that he had great blistering language he was fiery he would pound his opponents with comments hit his desk and he was making headlines everywhere he was such a colorful character but then he had the humility to understand I've lost my ability to get anything done in the state legislature I have a swelled head I rose like a rocket and then I collapse like a rocket so he finally changed and softened his lying. And was able to reach out to the other side but that takes understanding that you're doing something wrong reflection self reflection and that's how you grow you also talk about f.d.r. In terms of his ability to make pivots and to make changes some of the economic policies that were put in place during the Depression to get us out of the depression including the creation of the Securities and Exchange Commission that Wall Street was very very much against you mention that he was initially against some of the things we have today including the f.d.i.c which insures deposits in our banks and he was able to just pivot on that I mean I think F.D.R.'s great capacity was adaptability and he probably had to adapt in his personal life to a lot of different things his father dying young had to deal with his mother who was overbearing had to deal with his polio so he was able to say when something changes I'm going to change I mean think about the fact that business was so against him during the New Deal and then World War 2 comes and he has to get business on his side he cannot mobilize the country without the factories and the shipyards So he says Dr New Deal is becoming Dr win the war and it's not that he left behind the principles of the New Deal but he's shifted so that he could get business to support and business government partnership building those ships tanks and planes and weapons during World War 2 most magnificent partnership ever in the history of the country so he's able to be a leader both of peace and more because of that adaptability we get to a few of your comments and voice mails as well particularly having to do with our divisions as a nation it seems like every day we hear about how divided we are and how much we're missing the humanity and you know the people Miguel is in Winston Salem North Carolina here's the message he left in our inbox. The leadership says to tone we have President Trump who is the leader of the free world setting the tone of nothing but hate and anger with his speeches with his rally television appearances on Twitter you know I'm a veteran and when. And when I was when I served it was always the leaders set the tone we go thanks for your comment and thank you for your service as well what about home what we learn from these for president I mean I think he's absolutely right I mean Teddy Roosevelt said that most important thing a leader does to set an example for the country I mean I think about the tone that Abraham Lincoln set Think about that 2nd inaugural the North had already was on the verge of winning that war but no triumphal message does Lincoln deliver on the contrary the tone he wants to set is one of reconciliation which is what he hopes will happen later so he talks about the fact that the sin of slavery was shared by both sides both sides read the same Bible both prayed to the same God Neither is prayers were fully answered and then with malice toward none and charity for all let us bind up the nation's wounds and I think as the caller said that idea of setting a tone through anger through the tweets I mean these guys understood especially Lincoln did that you have to control those impulses because you Howard the president so when he was angry with somebody instead of tweeting it out he would write a hot letter to the person and then hope that the person would never get the letter because he'd cool down psychologically and he never used to send it I've done this before you manage somebody you write the e-mail you dollar. Is exactly get it out of your sister and then you see in his papers when they were opened in the 20th century lots of these blistering letters to people that underneath he wrote never sent and never signed I talked to President Obama about that before he left office and I was talking about these hot lead as I said you ever do that he said What do you mean I do it all the time I said What do you mean he said he would write letters constantly to people in when he was angry with them in the White House and then he'd crumble them up and put him in the wastebasket so much better than letting it come out I mean Lincoln would be get angry at people but he said as president you cannot allow the dignity of the office to be hurt by allowing that anger to be expressed We'll get to some more of your questions in just a moment including from Phil in Michigan who writes How will the current president rate as a leader Richard Nixon said the judgment of history depends on who writes the history will ask the historian in a moment stay close. On the next fresh air we talk with religion scholar Elaine Pagels about her new book why religion a personal story it combines memoir and biblical scholarship and reflects on how she turned to ancient Jewish and Christian texts and the meditation she was taught by Trappist monks after the deaths of her young son and her husband 30 years ago join us this morning at 11 o'clock on a.s.u. Streaming live a.s.u. Dot org. Under running support. Provided by Dr John chiropractic. 1400 West Cork Street Suite number one in. Offering adjustments. In. Open Mondays through Saturdays. At Dr John. Natalie Geissler of Brinkley performs under the name Natalie Kristine She's just released her 1st full length cd titled slow climb We'll talk with Natalie and share music from the project on today's Arkansas roots We'll also talk with members of the a state theater department about their upcoming production of animal farm that's all in the noon hour today on Arkansas roots. Support for n.p.r. 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MacArthur Foundation at Mack found dot org Today we're exploring how presidents deal with America's troubled times tomorrow we'll continue this exploration and we'd love your help we'll look deeper at the divisions that have threatened to rip our country apart including the run up to the Civil War How do you view today's divisions in light of America's history are you seeing things as worse than they've been do you think will pull through Leave us a voicemail 855-236-1818 at this moment in our nation's history are you more optimistic or pessimistic and why tell us your story 855236181 egg or you can use our app one a vox pop to send us a radio quality audio file and to keep up to date on future topics we'll share some of your stories and your thoughts tomorrow on one essay. Back now to our conversation with Doris Kearns Goodwin her new book is called leadership in turbulent times with regards to our divisions Toby in Vienna Virginia not far from Washington writes Doris is this the worst sectarian divide since the Civil War unprecedented challenges of climate change crumbling infrastructure global competitiveness cyber warfare under fordable health care an exploding deficit an increasingly unattainable middle class American dream the diagnosis of our quack commander in chief murderous immigrant stealing your jobs stupid negotiators who weren't smart like Trump and fake news from the enemy of the people press have we ever had a more quack diagnosis of what ails America than our current president's Well I think it's certainly the most highly partisan time in my lifetime in what was different in the 1960 s. 57 days is that the people in Congress knew one another as friends they played poker together they drank together many of them had been veterans in World War 2 in the Korean War So they knew what it was like to have a common mission against a common enemy and you had 3 television networks that at least agreed on the facts if not the opinions so there was a sense of addressing common problems when I think about how we came together in the sixty's to pass this desegregation act on civil rights to pass voting rights to pass Medicare n.p.r. You know p.b.s. I mean it was an extraordinary time when Republicans and Democrats worked together I mean l.b.j. Deserves some of that credit he knew those congressmen he called them at 5 in the morning and call them at midnight he'd call a senator at 2 am I hope in wake you up and know I was just lying here hoping my president would call but so we have lost that kind of leadership we lost even before President what happened were did we lose it I think we lost it because of money and politics it makes a big difference when the money you're asking for is from the special interest on either side of the aisle we lost because of congressional district eying the nonpartisan Congressional District in would be so important because then you choose your party lines and and we've lost because they don't leave why. Washington in the same way they they don't stay in Washington rather they go home to raise the money and then once they start thinking of each other as the other and the traitor and they say terrible things about each other and negative ads which have monumentally escalated in these last years it's harder to then turn around say Ok let's work together on something I wonder though if we need to put a little context to this because our political discourse has always been kind of bare knuckles like and we've always had political divides I mean even when Washington was president there were protests ministration people in anti administration people we've always been quote unquote partisan and we've we've always kind of been kind of rough around the edges with the way we talk about politicians we don't like it but something's different now I think you know I saw an article that said that people would now be more worried if their child married outside the party than if they married outside religion or race I mean the party has become an identification for people it was in the 1900 centuries but you only read your partisan newspaper would say horrible things about the other person you know if Abraham Lincoln were in a debate with Steven Douglas and it was the Republican paper they would say he was so great they carried him out on their arms in triumph and the Democratic paper would say he was so terrible he fell on the floor and they had to drag him out so we've had that before but it's in your face now it's everywhere you see it it's in bars where you can't even talk about politics something has escalated in these last couple years that I think is different except the 850 s. But that did not end well obviously exactly you write in the book also about the fact that Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Delano Roosevelt when they were dealing with the challenges that they faced assembled teams of people from all over the political spectrum for an array of reasons and it feels like that part of our history is at least partly forgotten if you look at say Robert Gates who used to be the secretary of defense under the Obama administration and folks looked at him like oh a Republican in a Democratic administration how hard it's really not of on guard it's it's retro now in fact it should be so important I mean what Lincoln understood when he came into the press. Since he couldn't sleep that 1st night when he won the election he knew he needed people from different factions from different parts of the party who were stronger than he was a new things that he didn't know so he put his 3 chief rivals into the Cabinet you know and people said how can you do this you're going to look like a figurehead he said no these are the strongest most able men in the country I need them by my side f.d.r. Surrounded himself with strong minded people but most importantly had Eleanor Roosevelt right he had her as a welcome thorn in his side you always need somebody who can speak truth to power sometimes it will come from the other party sometimes it'll just come from your party but somebody is willing to question you and that's what we need in a team and I don't see that team building right now it was also essential as she put it because they face struggles were it was American against American very clearly you know Lincoln had the Civil War Obviously the universe of the Confederacy which he and basically immediately when he became president making 60 and then f.d.r. With the Great Depression you kind of had the common man for lack of a better term against this relatively new financial and business establishment that kind of sprang up with the industrial revolution largely unregulated and had made all this money really quickly and didn't want to let it go and what f.d.r. Had to do and what he did so brilliantly was to be able to communicate to the ordinary citizens and even to the people who disagreed with him why he was doing what he did why he was regulating the banks why the f.c.c. Was necessary why the t.v. Had to be all these alphabet agency but he had that ability on the radio just talking to the microphone he could picture everybody in their own homes listening to him and he would explain what he was doing why he was doing it and the citizens felt that they were hearing from him directly there's a story of a construction worker running home one night in the partner says Where are you going so my president he's coming to speak to me in my living room it's only right I be there to greet him when he comes that bond that he established with the people and he established it with 8 out of 10 people listening to those radios carried him through all those difficult times as he was changing the way the role that government would play. Ok you mentioned those radio addresses which came to be known as the fireside chat or at the Franklin d. Roosevelt gave he gave one I think the 1st one was what on the March 13th 1933 ahead of the the efforts to try to clean up the economy from the Great Depression use that same technique in 1941 discussing America's potential involvement in World War 2 Here is a piece of one of F.D.R.'s fireside chats it is not. On the road about that unless we had planned some people there is a. Separate track now to the left on the hemisphere me with in writing I've been at St a weapons of disruption. Germany were literally a half hour pure. Ignorance right now we're not mass terror charism population and setting up a puppet government from its own curing very subject to the will and say of a conqueror a President Franklin Delano Roosevelt speaking by radio in 1901 discussing America's potential involvement in World War 2 that's another story line that comes out in the book is how different presidents learned to use the media and to address the public I think that's a huge issue now for sure not just with how Donald Trump has used the media and some would say used the media also Barack Obama had a very like airtight media strategy but talk about how presidents learn to talk to the public well in Lincoln's time he was very lucky that the way you spoke to the public was through your speeches and they would get printed in full in the newspaper and then reprinted in pamphlets and they'd be read aloud in city homes and country farm so his gift for language was perfectly suited for that time he also understood though that you have to tell stories I think all of my presidents understood my presence they all understood the importance of a story with a beginning a middle an end if you're explaining things to the people Teddy Roosevelt was lucky to come in where his punchy language was perfect. Suited for the national newspaper which is just a risen so you know speak softly and carry a big stick you know don't hit until you have to and then hit hard he even gave Maxwell House the slogan good to the very last drop he'd be Ok what way he came good to the very last drop that was Teddy Roosevelt. So you see he'd be great on Twitter today he could see those soft things and he had a fiery spirit if anybody could beat Donald Trump I think it would be Teddy when I set out but then of course f.d.r. Had that voice for radio and then j.f.k. And Ronald Reagan for television and l.b.j. Was best when he was speaking to a joint session of Congress that was his home that's where he came from so when he went up there to talk about taking the risk on civil rights and desegregation in the south right after j.f.k. Died he took that risk one of your earlier callers said you have to set a target and then bring the country with you that's when you get courage somebody said to me you don't have the power to do that you'll never get it through the filibuster he said well what the hell is the presidency for if I don't try to do this and he spoke to the joint session of Congress about that something else that comes out in your book particularly with regards to talking to the public is the way that these 4 men created their public image and helped to shape that image that's a critique that Democrats have had of Donald Trump particularly in light of some of the recent rest again of just how wealthy he really is that Republicans had of Barack Obama that he was this kind of messianic figure that was going to save the country but all 4 of them shaped their images including you know Teddy Roosevelt kind of remaking himself in this to be this kind of rugged Western man that would be the act leader for the Roughriders they all were conscious of the way that the public viewed them and they played into that they didn't avoid that no Absolutely in fact Teddy Roosevelt said if he had not gone West his what had happened to us his wife and his mother had died on the same day in the same house sending him into a terrible depression so he went to the Badlands and when he went out there he built his body and he became a cowboy but most importantly he knew the benefit of being a Western guy as well. An elite eastern guy so he was able to appeal to the entire country obviously Abraham Lincoln story of having coming up from such poverty having had to educate himself and be that ordinary man took an emotional hold on people but somehow Franklin Roosevelt was able to speak to the ordinary people despite that great privileged background and l.b.j. Had that Texas background that that extraordinary colorful nature that was able to deal with people of blacks as well as rights which is amazing he had that Southern heritage but he was able to do it Jim writes I define leadership as the ability to persuade without coersion many of our political leaders had money or a family name or both to give them positions of power they weren't leaders they were coerced Cers this kind of goes back to what you said earlier Teddy Roosevelt Franklin Roosevelt they had all of those things but then found other ways to lead as they went forward clear emailed I've heard people I love call President Obama weak and President Trump strong this is misguided think of the great leaders who are widely beloved the new self-restraint straight takes strength indulging in self pitying perceptions of victimhood is something we try to teach our toddlers to get over. Michael writes Is there a difference between our perception of a president's leadership and the reality at the time of that man's presidency do we see their leadership through the filter of time for example Lincoln was perceived by many as a ruthless dictator during his presidency great questions great questions just I do think it takes a matter of time to look back at a leader when you're going through one of the struggles especially the south viewed him very negatively during his time but as time has gone by and I think the South realizes he would have been the best leader for the South in terms of bringing reconciliation together but he had to do a lot of difficult things to keep that union together so they were looked at at the time with some some negativity but I think over a generation you look back at a person look at Lyndon Johnson I mean when I was with him and helping him on his memoirs in those last years of his life he was so sad knowing that his legacy had been torn in 2 and rightly so by the war in Vietnam but now 50 years later we see what he did domestically and he set the foundation for the modern life so he gets another look at history I mean one of the interesting things about all my guys is that they were preceded by somebody who didn't do well I mean who would be cannon had the same problem that Lincoln had and yet he couldn't deal with the separation that was already beginning to have to fall and as a matter of fact the Canon family was always at the bottom of the presidential polls and then lately a poll showed that President Trump was the worst president in presidential historian polls suddenly the Vacanti family they say they were celebrating his out of the bottom anymore it took a while for Harry Truman to be recognized as one of our great leaders It takes a generation I think to look back at out of the context and see what they did that's why are they the right man for the time Phil in Michigan asks how will the current president rate as a leader Richard Nixon said the judgment of history depends on who writes the history I wonder if based on that quote from Nixon it's too soon to answer that question I think that's probably true I mean we can look at President Trump in terms of some of these leadership qualities we can't say that he's shown much humility although at one point he said that the reason he. The pope so much Pope Francis was because he was so very very humble just like Donald Trump he also said that he had the very best temperament for anyone who would run for president because he never lost and history shows that most of our presidents who have been wise and had perspective were able to learn from adversity to go through trials of fire we haven't seen that he's been able to you know to build a team with diverse people in it who can pull together in a common good but we have seen that he can communicate with people so there are certain things whether he's connecting to all the people or just part of the people it'll take us a while to even absorb what President Trump is doing before we go I definitely want to make sure we have a chance to talk not just about how these presidents worked and they worked a lot but what they did when they didn't work you focus quite a bit in the book on how they would relax unwind and recharge it's really important especially for all of us today when we think we don't have time to relax or time to think think of Lincoln going through the Civil War He went to the theatre 100 times he said want to play came on a Shakespeare play he could imagine himself a young person again watching the War Of The Roses not watching the Civil War and his sense of humor was extraordinary in the middle of the worst cabinet meetings he would come up with a funny story he said that somehow humor allowed him to whistle off sadness on Teddy Roosevelt exercise 2 hours every afternoon he would take a hike in the wooded cliffs of Rock Creek Park play tennis or play a boxing match or a wrestling match he said he had to somehow get that exercise and f.d.r. My favorite is every night during World War 2 He had a cocktail party where the rule was you couldn't talk about the war you could gossip about whatever was going on you could read books that you'd read movies as long as the war didn't come up so he for a few precious hours could find time to relax I think it's really important to have time to think he went on a fishing trip one time f.d.r. Did 10 days he came up with the whole Lend-Lease idea away from the struggles in Washington so each one of them if they can find this time to relax and replenish their energy so can we who think we have to take our i Phones with us we had every . Email with us but you lose something Energy is is is a certain finite amount it can be gained by the contagion of being with people or it can be lost just by the precious and anxiety and they figured out how to replenish it Doris Kearns Goodwin Her latest book is called leadership in turbulent times it's been a pleasure thanks for talking to us I am very glad to talk with you remember we'd love to hear from you if you are intending to vote have voted have decided not to vote we'd love to know what you've done and why leave us a message 855-236-1818 or you can use our app one a vox pop We will of course be keeping an eye out for some of your stories and we'll run down what happened in the mid terms of the day after today's program is produced by a very Kleiman and Morgan Givens to learn more about our staff visit the one a dot org slash staff this program comes to you from w am you part of American University in Washington distributed by n.p.r. 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Radio Yes well you can be when everyone tells you you're doomed to fail that's partly how Michael Caine became one of Hollywood's favorite actors from w.a.m. You and n.p.r. In Washington d.c. Is one a. See there I'm Joshua Johnson today I want to say Michael Caine life is a movie star seemed remote for this working class kid with a cockney accent but pursuing his passion and learning to ignore the skeptics are among the life lessons in his new memoir We'll get to know Michael Caine ahead we begin with the midterms and the constant efforts to so distance from ation online the box in the Trolls never stopped working after the 2 $1016.00 election they only ramped up what's being done to stop them our conversation with Michael Caine is on tape of the love your questions about online deception so comment on our Facebook page or tweet us at 1 am. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington encore of a coalmine the candidates in tomorrow's midterm elections are making final pitches today before voters head to the polls with Democrats hoping to regain control of part of Congress some Republican candidates for the House and Senate are tying their campaigns to President Trump's agenda Emily president of member station says the polls in Pennsylvania suggest some races there remain extremely close such as the 10th District the 10th is now a toss up with 3 term incumbent Republican Scott Perry's edging narrowing during the past few months to as little as a single point depending on the poll Perry's challenger Democrat George Scott rallied with an estimated $1200.00 supporters Sunday night in Harrisburg and the beginning of this race. Few people believed that we could win. But that has saints. Former Vice President Joe Biden was there to stump for Scott and vice president Mike Pence visited in October on behalf of Perry and Lloyd Smucker who's facing a tight contest in the 11th District for n.p.r. News I'm mentally property in Harrisburg the Republican candidate for Georgia's governor is accusing Democrats of hacking into the state's voter database Brian Kemp has provided no evidence to prove his allegation he is also the secretary of state in Georgia in charge of voter rolls his Democratic opponent Stacy Abrams alleges Kemp is trying to suppress votes a trial is underway in New York it's the 1st legal challenge to a citizenship question the Trump administration added to the 2020 census N.P.R.'s Hansi Lo Wang reports there are multiple lawsuits by more than 2 dozen states and cities seeking to get the question removed the Trump administration has said that what's driving its push for a citizenship question is a Justice Department request for better citizenship data to enforce the Voting Rights Act but new court filings show that a top Justice Department official has testified that the question is not necessary to enforce that law N.P.R.'s Hansi Lo Wang Indonesian investigators report of flight data recorder from the Lion Air jet that crashed into the Java Sea last week showed an equal and malfunction the B.B.C.'s Celia Hatton reports the Jets airspeed indicator malfunctioned on several of its last flights in the final seconds before the Boeing 737 Max crashed into the water it was traveling at more than 500 kilometers an hour all 189 people on board were killed new information about the plane's faulty airspeed indicator showing it had been damage for the last 4 flights before it went down came from the plane's flight data recorder rescue divers are still trying to recover the main wreckage and the cockpit voice recorder which could reveal the final conversation between the pilot and copilot the B.B.C.'s Celia Hatton on Wall Street the Dow is up $140.00 points the Nasdaq is down $54.00 it's n.p.r. . Iranian officials say they'll break u.s. Sanctions on their country and continue to sell oil on the world market the u.s. Sanctions start today they reimpose previous sanctions on Iran that were lifted in 2015 as part of the nuclear deal President Trump has withdrawn the u.s. From the deal animal rights activists in India are angry about the recent killings of 2 wild tigers in their country N.P.R.'s Sushmita Pattakos reports the Tigers had allegedly attacked people the 1st killing took place on Friday state authorities in the western Indian state of Maharastra hired a private shoot to execute a diagnosis they believed she had killed 13 people then on Sunday villagers in northern India crossed a Tigris with a tractor and beat her to death with sticks a piece will likely be registered against them animal rights activists are criticizing the killings and Indian cabinet minister called the Friday incident. India is home to the world's largest why Diago population experts say that the presence of these tigers in populated areas may be related to humans encroaching on forests so show me that biotech n.p.r. News Mumbai a Turkish newspaper is claiming Saudi Arabia sent a cleanup team to the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul following the killing of journalist democracy Saudi Arabia has admitted death was premeditated the news report alleges the clean up team worked to remove evidence of the dissidents slaying because Jodi's body has not been found or turned over on Korver Coleman n.p.r. News support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include road scholar a nonprofit educational travel institution offering scholarships for a family caregivers to experience educational adventures in 50 states and Canada at our oad scholar Dr.