Families of those offered his condolences to the families of those killed in a train families of those killed in a train crash families of those killed in a train crash in families of those killed in a train crash in india. Families of those killed in a train crash in india. At least train crash in india. At least 288 train crash in india. At least 288 people train crash in india. At least 288 people have died and around 850 ee 288 people have died and around 850 are injured, 288 people have died and around 850 are injured, making it the countrye 850 are injured, making it the countrys deadliest rail mement countrys deadliest rail incident in countrys deadliest rail incident in more than two decades. Incident in more than two decades. The incident in more than two decades. The army has been deployed decades. The army has been deployed ee decades. The army has been deployed to help with the search and rescue operations. India as prime and rescue operations. India as prime iiinieiei and rescue operations. India as Prime MinisterNarendra Modi has vieiiei Prime MinisterNarendra Modi has vieiiei iie Prime MinisterNarendra Modi has visited the site Prime MinisterNarendra Modi has visited the site in Prime MinisterNarendra Modi has visited the site in odisha sieie. Visited the site in odisha state. Ihra visited the site in odisha state. Ihra nana. state. Ihra nana. I am deeply pained. Many passengers from pained. Many passengers from different states have lost something during this journey. The people who have lost their lives. Its beyond sad and very disturbing. The government will leave no stone unturned and will provide the best treatment to the people whove been injured , the people whove been injured, the people whove been injured, the relatives who weve lost cant come back, but the government is with their families in this hour of grief, the Epsom Jockey Club has praised the swift and Decisive Action of police after they detained two protesters at the epsom derby as they tried to run on to the course. A in total, 31 pieieeieie on to the course. A in total, 31 protesters have on to the course. A in total, 31 protesters have been iii itizi. A in total, 31 protesters have been arrested for eiiempiing protesters have been arrested for attempting to disrupt the eveni for attempting to disrupt the eveni , for attempting to disrupt the eveni , wiii for attempting to disrupt the event , with 12 for attempting to disrupt the event , with 12 arrests made at event, with 12 arrests made at me event, with 12 arrests made at iiie grounde event, with 12 arrests made at the grounds. Animal rising had had threatened the grounds. Animal rising had had threatened to cancel or eeveieiy had threatened to cancel or severely delay had threatened to cancel or severely delay the racing event. But severely delay the racing event. Eui ii severely delay the racing event. Am i weni severely delay the racing event. But it went ahead severely delay the racing event. But it went ahead as planned. Iiie but it went ahead as planned. Iiie group but it went ahead as planned. Iiie group hee but it went ahead as planned. The group has accused surrey peiiee the group has accused surrey peiiee ei the group has accused Surrey Police of abusing the group has accused Surrey Police of abusing their powers. Police of abusing their powers. Ani police of abusing their powers. Ani ieuiee police of abusing their powers. And louise hill wood from the group and louise hill wood from the group says and louise hill wood from the group eoye ripeyre and louise hill wood from the group says theyre happy with todavs group says theyre happy with todays Outcome Group says theyre happy with todays outcome. Todays outcome. That was one of our goals, but the second goal, and probably an extremely important one, is that we wanted to start a national conversation. We wanted people to be talking about what happened today, what happens to to be talking about what hap horsestoday, what happens to to be talking about what hap horsestodhorseiat happens to to be talking about what hap horsestodhorse racing pens to to be talking about what hap horsestodhorse racing ,ens to to be talking about what hap horsestodhorse racing , but to the horses in horse racing, but you know, also to animals in other industries. As you know, in sport , entertainment and in in sport, entertainment and in our food system. Thousands of our food system. Thousands of peopie our food system. Thousands of people attending sap thousands of people attending sports and music people attending sports and music Events People attending sports and music events have faced major iierupiiorr music events have faced major iierupiiorr ou music events have faced major disruption on the music events have faced major disruption on the rail network ioioy disruption on the rail network ioioy oe disruption on the rail Network Today as members of the aslef union today as members of the aslef union go today as members of the aslef union go on today as members of the aslef union go on strike. Today as members of the aslef union go on strike. Its the inner union go on strike. Its the nip day union go on strike. Its the iniri day or union go on strike. Its the third day of industrial action inie third day of industrial action inie week third day of industrial action this week affecting those iroveiiing this week affecting those travelling to this week affecting those travelling to the epsom derby oni travelling to the epsom derby and ine travelling to the epsom derby and rne pg travelling to the epsom derby and the fa cup travelling to the epsom derby and the fa cup final at wembley. Sinf and the fa cup final at wembley. Sion oi and the fa cup final at wembley. Sion or is. And the fa cup final at wembley. Staff at 15. Train and the fa cup final at wembley. Staff at 15. Train operating eornonpiee staff at 15. Train operating companies have walked out in an ongoing companies have walked out in an ongoing iiepuie companies have walked out in an ongoing dispute over pay and eoniirione ongoing dispute over pay and eoniiiione. Ongoing dispute over pay and conditions. Philips phillips conditions. Philips phillips senorieii conditions. Philips Phillips Schofield says conditions. Philips Phillips Schofield says hes afraid to ieove schofield says hes afraid to ieove nie schofield says hes afraid to leave his home schofield says hes afraid to leave his home after admitting to leave his home after admitting ro on leave his home after admitting ro on orien leave his home after admitting to an affair with leave his home after admitting to an affair with a leave his home after admitting to an affair with a much younger moie to an affair with a much younger male colleague to an affair with a much younger male colleague at to an affair with a much younger male colleague at this morning. Ine male colleague at this morning. Ine ei male colleague at this morning. Ine or year male colleague at this morning. Ine or year oin male colleague at this morning. The 61 year old resigned from riv the 61 year old resigned from iiv oni the 61 year old resigned from iiv and woe the 61 year old resigned from itv and was dropped by his ioieni itv and was dropped by his roienr agency itv and was dropped by his Talent Agency over the scandal. Talent agency over the scandal. In Talent Agency over the scandal. In o Talent Agency over the scandal. In o ne Talent Agency over the scandal. In a new interview Talent Agency over the scandal. In a new interview with the sun , senoiieii in a new interview with the sun , schofield says in a new interview with the sun , schofield says he in a new interview with the sun , schofield says he fears being spoi , schofield says he fears being epoi on , schofield says he fears being epoi on in , schofield says he fears being epoi on in ine , schofield says he fears being spat on in the street and that nee spat on in the street and that nee gerring spat on in the street and that nee gerring py spat on in the street and that hes getting by hour by hour uiin hes getting by hour by hour nirn euppon hes getting by hour by hour with support from his daughters and friends with support from his daughters and friends. With support from his daughters and friends. Diesel prices fell and friends. Diesel prices fell by a and friends. Diesel prices fell by e record and friends. Diesel prices fell by e eeori or and friends. Diesel prices fell by a record of almost £0. 12 last nonin by a record of almost £0. 12 last nonin ine by a record of almost £0. 12 last month, the biggest by a record of almost £0. 12 last month, the biggest drop for over two month, the biggest drop for over iuo ieeoiee. Month, the biggest drop for over two decades. The month, the biggest drop for over two decades. The rac says the aeraeg two decades. The rac says the aeraeg price two decades. The rac says the average price of two decades. The rac says the average price of diesel went non average price of diesel went from roee average price of diesel went from 158. 9 pence to 140 £0. 07 in may. From 158. 9 pence to 140 £0. 07 in may. Ire from 158. 9 pence to 140 £0. 07 in may. We ine from 158. 9 pence to 140 £0. 07 in may. Its the seventh consecutive may. Its the seventh consecutive month in which uk pump consecutive month in which uk pump prices consecutive month in which uk punp prieee nave consecutive month in which uk pump prices have fallen, reducing pump prices have fallen, reducing the pump prices have fallen, reducing the cost of filling up a typical reducing the cost of filling up aiypieai raniiy reducing the cost of filling up a typical family car by £6. 50. Renor a typical family car by £6. 50. Petrol prices a typical family car by £6. 50. Petrol prices also a typical family car by £6. 50. Petrol prices also fell by £0. 03 iaer petrol prices also fell by £0. 03 iaer nonin petrol prices also fell by £0. 03 last month, with petrol prices also fell by £0. 03 last month, with. Petrol prices also fell by £0. 03 last month, with. And manchester last month, with. And Manchester City last month, with. And manchester ciiy nave last month, with. And Manchester City have beaten last month, with. And Manchester City have beaten their rivals. Iianeneerer city have beaten their rivals. Manchester united 2 1 to win the fa Manchester United 2 1 to win the no cup Manchester United 2 1 to win the no cup iinai Manchester United 2 1 to win the no cup rinai ai Manchester United 2 1 to win the fa cup final at wembley. Ilkay euniogan fa cup final at wembley. Ilkay gundogan scored fa cup final at wembley. Ilkay gundogan scored after 12 seconds. Thats the fastest goal in iii seconds. Thats the fastest goal in no cup seconds. Thats the fastest goal in no cup iinai seconds. Thats the fastest goal in fa cup final history. United nruno in fa cup final history. United Bruno Fernandes in fa cup final history. United Bruno Fernandes equalised by scoring Bruno Fernandes equalised by scoring a Bruno Fernandes equalised by scoring a penalty at 33 minutes, but scoring a penalty at 33 minutes, our eunaogan scoring a penalty at 33 minutes, but gundogan scored another to reeiore but gundogan scored another to reeiore crye but gundogan scored another to restore citys lead but gundogan scored another to restore citys lead six minutes inro restore citys lead six minutes inio ine restore citys lead six minutes into the second restore citys lead six minutes into the second half. It means ineyre into the second half. It means ineyre no into the second half. It means ineyre on into the second half. It means theyre now on course to eonpieie theyre now on course to complete whats called the ireiie complete whats called the treble winning complete whats called the treble winning the premier ieague treble winning the premier ieague, ine treble winning the premier league, the fa treble winning the premier league, the fa cup and the cnanpione league, the fa cup and the Champions League in the same season , which Champions League in the same season , which takes place next season, which takes place next saiuriay. Season, which takes place next saturday. Youre season, which takes place next saturday. Youre up to date on tv saturday. Youre up to date on iv oniine saturday. Youre up to date on iv oniine , saturday. Youre up to date on tv online , dab saturday. Youre up to date on tv online , dab radio and on tv online, dab radio and on rune tv online, dab radio and on rune in. Tv online, dab radio and on rune in. Inie tv online, dab radio and on tune in. This is tv online, dab radio and on tune in. This is gb tv online, dab radio and on tune in. This is gb news. Now ire tune in. This is gb news. Now in back tune in. This is gb news. Now in pack io tune in. This is gb news. Now in pack ro. Its back to. Simon iand its back to. Simon iand welcome its back to. Simon and welcome back to neil oliver live with , simon evans. Live with me, simon evans. Extraordinary the fa extraordinary scenes at the fa cup but ive got nothing cup final, but ive got nothing to about that. Given the to say about that. Given the opportunity to deliver one of these iconic saturday monologues, i was actually delighted, salivating delighted, almost salivating yesterday, to see a story broken in the telegraph ministers yesterday, to see a story broken in t a telegraph ministers yesterday, to see a story broken in t a chilling ph ministers yesterday, to see a story broken in t a chilling secret ministers yesterday, to see a story broken in t a chilling secret unit|isters had a chilling secret unit dunng had a chilling secret unit during covid to kerb lockdown dissent. They apparently flagged a perfectly legitimate online conversations about vaccine passports and so on, and what have been proven to be well founded fears about government policy. They were scrutinised for signs of sedition. This this was a cause dear to my heart. The timing seemed almost too good to be true. Well that story may well stand up, but its not what im going to talk about this afternoon. Instead, i wanted to talk about things that seem too good to be true. Many years ago, possibly inspired by a desire to understand my recent decision to get married and have children, i picked up a book called irrationality by stuart sutherland. This was one of the first of a wave of such titles which have since become a tsunami , a genre often referred tsunami, a genre often referred to as popular psychology. Youll find these books on the table called smart thinking in waterstones or in your local bookshop, and very tempting. They are too. I was for many years, borderline addict id. Most of them have been published in the last 20 years, suggesting enormous progress in Human Understanding in that period. Occasionally an old pretender like darwin, plato or William James will find its way onto that table and then be ushered back out like a shabby, bearded tramp. Gatecrashing a Silicon Valley product launch. Who later turns out to have been the founder. Sutherlands book introduced me to various flaws, glitches , biases and errors in glitches, biases and errors in our thinking that limit the extent to which our brains guide us smoothly through the assault course of life. The rhyme as course of life. The rhyme as reason effect beloved of advertisers. Survivor bias beloved of chatshows the availability heuristic. There is availability heuristic. There is availability heuristic. There is a long list of Cognitive Biases now on wikipedia and fascinating. It is too. Indeed, more recent books now with titles like twitch. What that annoying thing in your eyelid is trying to tell you . In your eyelid is trying to tell you. 7 or in your eyelid is trying to tell you . Or spleen. Why natures forgotten organ could hold the secret to your self destructive behaviour. Secret to your self destructive behaviour. Suggest that your brain is barely in charge at all. A figurehead at best, and every bit as apt to stumble up the steps of life as is president joe biden. Your gut, for instance, is now thought to be as intelligent as a sheepdog and as as as desperate to attract your attention as well , attract your attention as well, and for you to entertain it. One that immediately struck me as describing a very real thing , describing a very real thing, however, is called confirmation bias, and it is now widely understood to be among the most powerful distortions affecting and hindering our grasp of the modern world. Its why we end up in those notorious echo chambers we hear about, or rather, why everyone else does while we alone roam free. Confirmation bias means that even if we dont actively seek evidence that what we already think is correct , we already think is correct, that sort of evidence is all that sort of evidence is all that has a chance of penetrating our thick blocks of wood. Our exoskeletons of doubt , and exoskeletons of doubt, and anything that doesnt work with the grain of our pre existing beliefs has very little chance of getting through. We dont of getting through. We dont even feel consciously hostile to it very often. Contrary facts it very often. Contrary facts just make us feel tired. Thinking is tiring. It uses a surprisingly large amount of oxygen. The brain is a thirsty oxygen. The brain is a thirsty organ. I know mine oxygen. The brain is a thirsty organ. I know mine is and it burns large amounts of calories. Adjusting established beliefs in the face of new evidence. Sounds like a good habit to adopt, but then so did that gym membership last january, and so did starting every day with a cold shower. We have instead evolved various heuristics in the modern parlance, shortcuts essentially, that allow us to set the newborn chicks of discourse and sort them very quickly into battery or bin. Does this , we ask ourselves, does this, we ask ourselves, firstly feel all right, as thomas gill povich put it, for desired conclusions, we ask ourselves , can i believe this . Ourselves, can i believe this . But for unpalatable conclusions we must ask, must i believe this . A couple of weeks ago, word went around that john cleese now a friend of this very channel, of course. But once upon a time, way back in my youth, a python, the very highest form of comedy life, john was going to remake life of bnan john was going to remake life of brian as a stage show. Good news. But it was reported he was going to bow to shifts in popular taste and loss of appetite for cruelty and humour and remove the famous scene in which his character , reg, leader which his character, reg, leader of the peoples front of judea, dendes of the peoples front of judea, derides as delusional. The determination of his comrades. Stan played by eric idle, to be known as loretta, and to have a baby where he wants to know is the foetus going to gestate in a box . Well, that now sounds box . Well, that now sounds transphobic, of course. And so there was a protest. Did transphobic, of course. And so there was a protest. Did this feel true . To me . It did. Could i believe it . Oh, yes. In a world where barely a day goes by without trans activists committing some fresh outrage against common sense , i against common sense, i certainly could not only could i believe it, i wrote a perfectly serviceable column about it for spiked online trans i wrote is the new church and mockery of it. The new blasphemy. My tone was elegiac, more disappointed than angry, lamenting the passing of the Great British sense of humour and the ridiculous. The body to be cremated and the ashes to be sent god knows where. Certainly not australia. Only trouble was not australia. Only trouble was it wasnt true. Of course. Please had taken a straw poll of reactions to that scene at the end of the read through. And that much was true. But he was not himself a straw in that wind. He was amused to see that it made some of his actors uncomfortable, but he was Standing Firm the scene was Standing Firm and the scene was staying well, it would be staying in. Well, it would be tempting at this point to say wider point still stands , wider point still stands, something i have nicknamed the pie deflection afterjonathan pie, the parody news presenter who was similarly gulled into thinking the worst of rishi sunak recently and refused to take the hit on the fact that i could believe this tells us something in itself, he said. Yes what it tells us is that you, we, you, you, we, all of us are fallible , jonathan. Even are fallible, jonathan. Even even me and all vulnerable to wishful thinking. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. Liberty is eternal vigilance. The price of self respect to all lies in jest, sang my namesake paul simon, nearly 60 years ago. Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. But the best we can hope to do is be aware that our gut to can be terribly mistaken. Good boy. Be terribly mistaken. Good boy. Though its. Well, all of that though its. Well, all of that is my opinion , of course. And is my opinion, of course. And youre free to disagree. Keep your tweets and emails coming all the time. You can email gb views at gb news. Com. You can views at gb news. Com. You can tweet me as well. G gb news. Thats at gb news news. Or you can tweet me directly if you like, at the simon evans. Please like, at the simon evans. Please keep it to the next hour or so at all. My feed getting bunged up for the rest of the week off the back of this show. I will try to get some of your comments into the show later on. Joining me this me throughout the show this evening is the fabulous podcaster andrew, podcaster andrew gold. Andrew, good evening. Good afternoon. Good evening. Were on cusp of two were right on the cusp of two time dusk dumas time periods, dusk dumas feelings yet good dusk. Feelings of dusk yet good dusk. Thats a time to meet thats a nice time to meet people, isnt it . Very people, isnt it . Feels very homely way you look very homely on the way you look very handsome house. So what do you make of that little monologue there . Diatribe against there . That diatribe against confirmation do you confirmation bias . Do you encounter it much . Oh, yeah. Well, on well well, congratulations on a well aeiiverei well, congratulations on a welli delivered provoking delivered and thought provoking andiron. Delivered and thought provoking andbrow. Thank delivered and thought provoking and brow. Thank you. And high brow. Thank you. Iionoiogue and high brow. Thank you. Monologue. Quite monologue. Fantastic. Quite a iong monologue. Fantastic. Quite a iong period monologue. Fantastic. Quite a iong perioa io monologue. Fantastic. Quite a long period to get through in go. Long period to get through in go. Ii long period to get through in one go. It started long period to get through in one go. C iii; one go. It started to feel quite unnatural. Felt. I felt unnatural. I felt. I felt stressed for you. 0. new rice i felt stressed for you. Well wow. Doing stressed for you. Well wow. Noing inie stressed for you. Well wow. Poing one is stressed for you. Well wow. Doing this is no stressed for you. Well wow. Doing this is no easy job. I was iioaieu doing this is no easy job. I was iioaieu paci doing this is no easy job. I was floated back to doing this is no easy job. I was floated back to my doing this is no easy job. I was floated back to my kitchen, explain to my wife. I was dishwasher should be stacked. The sheep dog and my gut are the same intelligence. The sheep dog and my gut are the same intelligence. Thats quite inereiiiie. Same intelligence. Thats quite incredible. Its same intelligence. Thats quite incredible. G incredible. Its extraordinary, isnt and what gut isnt it . And what your gut lacks, any means lacks, of course, is any means of communication other the of communication other than the fairly. Yeah, mines fairly vulgar. Yeah, mines going fairly vulgar. Yeah, mines ioing ii fairly vulgar. Yeah, mines ioing ii a fairly vulgar. Yeah, mines doing it a little fairly vulgar. Yeah, mines doing it a little bit can 9 . yeah, mines doing it a little bit right now. Weir, doing it a little bit right now. Ireii,. Doing it a little bit right now. Ireii, i. Ine doing it a little bit right now. Well, i. The confirmation bias all well, i. The confirmation bias aii ine well, i. The confirmation bias aii rne rime. Well, i. The confirmation bias all the time. And well, i. The confirmation bias all the time. And one of my former all the time. And one of my former guests all the time. And one of my former guests on all the time. And one of my former guests on my podcast was peren former guests on my podcast was reier rne former guests on my podcast was peter the academic. Peter boghossian, the academic uno peter boghossian, the academic nno youe peter boghossian, the academic nno youe nai peter boghossian, the academic who youve had him on. Great. Rean who youve had him on. Great. Vean nee who youve had him on. Great. Yeah, hes brilliant. And he goes yeah, hes brilliant. And he does something yeah, hes brilliant. And he does something street does something called street epierenoiogy does something called streetj epistemology to epistemology and he goes to peopie epistemology and he goes to peopiea epistemology and he goes to peopiea reaiiy epistemology and he goes to people a really its a people and its a really its a reaiiy people and its a really its a really wonderful people and its a really its a really wonderful exercise where he really wonderful exercise where ne eaye really wonderful exercise where ne eaye, okay, really wonderful exercise where ne eaye, okaylie really wonderful exercise where he says, okay, is what you he says, okay, this is what you inink he says, okay, this is what you ininkknou. He says, okay, this is what you thinkknow. Think| think you know. Do you think a nano think you know. Do you think a trans woman is think you know. Do you think a trans woman is a think you know. Do you think a trans woman is a woman . For exanpie trans woman is a woman . For exanpie e trans woman is a woman . For exanpie pp. P. Trans woman is a woman . For example . Yeah. How strongly example . Yeah. And how strongly do example . Yeah. And how strongly aoieiieve example . Yeah. And how strongly dobelieveand do you believe that . And they nigni do you believe that . And they mightbelieve do you believe that . And they might believe that eight might say, i believe that eight out might say, i believe that eight our of might say, i believe that eight our of en. Might say, i believe that eight out of ten. And might say, i believe that eight out of ten. And says, what out of ten. And he says, what nouri out of ten. And he says, what uouia ii out of ten. And he says, what would it take out of ten. And he says, what would it take to out of ten. And he says, what would it take to get to seven . Rean would it take to get to seven . Vean i would it take to get to seven . Vean i fini would it take to get to seven . Yeah, i find that would it take to get to seven . Yeah, i find that really fascinating yeah, i find that really fascinating because we dont engage fascinating because we dont engageor fascinating because we donti engageornina engage that part of our mind enougn. Engage that part of our mind enough. Often engage that part of our mind enough. Often thats what enough. And so often thats what i enough. And so often thats what i inink enough. And so often thats what i think debate enough. And so often thats what i think debate that enough. And so often thats what i think debate that i i think debate should that is i ne i think debate should that is i nela i think debate should that is i mean, hela very i think debate should that is i mean, he a very intelligent mean, he is a very intelligent guy mean, he is a very intelligent guyhe mean, he is a very intelligent guyneaieo mean, he is a very intelligent guyhealso quite. Mean, he is a very intelligent guyhealso quite brave. Guy and he was also quite brave. He guy and he was also quite brave. Na na guy and he was also quite brave. Ne aiong guy and he was also quite brave. He was along with guy and he was also quite brave. He was along with james guy and he was also quite brave. He was along with james lindsay, wasnt and helen . Oh yeah. Wasnt he . And helen . Oh yeah. Anyway, they anyway, those three, they, they did on academia. Anyway, those three, they, they did on academia. They did the scam on academia. They exposed at a time when it was exposed it at a time when it was still dangerous still quite dangerous potentially and potentially to go there. And its more mainstream its becoming more mainstream now. So, can also now. But even so, you can also see what hes doing there is see how what hes doing there is a bit like chris morris sketch a bit like a chris morris sketch as hes kind going, how as well. Hes kind of going, how big threat of terrorism . Big is the threat of terrorism . Is it this big . You know, this kind of ludicrous, the exposure of the limitations of vox pops and the limitations of vox pops and the limitations of i do think that there of them . I do think that there is know, a tendency and in is a you know, a tendency and in a way , its what i wanted to go a way, its what i wanted to go over that monologue that we over in that monologue that we learn these heuristic learn about these heuristic arts. We learn about our cognitive and then Cognitive Biases, and then we carry making its carry on making them. Its almost impossible to actually avoid step avoid it if you do take a step back, you sometimes think, back, you can sometimes think, hang but actually in the hang on, but actually in the flow of life, you can read as many books about it as you like. You remain the person you you will remain the person you are. Yeah, very hard to are. Yeah, its very hard to enange. Are. Yeah, its very hard to enange. Nun are. Yeah, its very hard to change. But. But are. Yeah, its very hard to change. But. Butchange, change. But. But you do change, ionr change. But. But you do change, ionrvou change. But. But you do change, dontyou dont change. But. But you do change, dont you dont have the dont you . You dont have the same views you dont you . You dont have the same views you had ten years ago or same views you had ten years ago oago same views you had ten years ago oago isuppose same views you had ten years ago or ago. Isuppose the. Or 20 years ago. I suppose the when evidence mounts up when the evidence mounts up eventually things dont eventually things change, dont they . Thats what they . And i suppose thats what happened gradually, societal shifts. Mean, the moment shifts. I mean, at the moment were through were going through a few, arent and of them are arent we . And some of them are possibly of a lot possibly reversals of a lot of campaigning. Seems be based campaigning. Seems to be based on idea that, you they on the idea that, you know, they say of particularly say now 3. 5 of particularly annoying if they all act annoying people. If they all act in sort of concord together, can effect giant changes in society. But i begin to wonder if that actually holds true or whether actually, after a while, society begins back. Yeah, begins to push back. Yeah, i remember reading recently. I think its james hewitt or i think its james hewitt or james think its james hewitt orjames iiarrioir think its james hewitt orjames iiarrioii in think its james hewitt orjames marriott in the think its james hewitt orjames marriott in the times he wrote aioui eayingl about this and he was saying peopie about this and he was saying peopie are about this and he was saying peopie no about this and he was saying people are no longer so scared of people are no longer so scared or urine people are no longer so scared of twitter mobs. People are no longer so scared of twitter mobs. Finally of twitter mobs. We finally eianea of twitter mobs. We finally eianei ro of twitter mobs. We finally started to realise when twitter aiong started to realise when twitter came along ten, started to realise when twitter came along ten, 15 years ago, we wereworried came along ten, 15 years ago, we uereluorrieaa came along ten, 15 years ago, we wereworrieda pile came along ten, 15 years ago, we were worried a pile on were so worried about a pile on company were so worried about a pile on company is were so worried about a pile on company is really were so worried about a pile on company is really worried about, youorange. Company is really worried about, youbrands. And company is really worried about, you brands. And now we you know, brands. And now we reaiiee realise its actually a tiny pereenrage realise its actually a tiny percentage very percentage of just very angry peopie. Percentage of just very angry people. Doesnt percentage of just very angry people. Doesnt any people. It doesnt make any inference people. It doesnt make any difference to people. It doesnt make any difference to sales. 4 3. Difference to sales. You know, i did i difference to sales. You know, i did i joke on a radio did i made a joke on a Radio Program last weekend, went out last weekend. It sounded as if it expense of people it was at the expense of people who long covid, although it who have long covid, although it was intended slightly more was intended to be slightly more nuanced that. But they nuanced than that. But they are understandably a vocal understandably a very vocal bunch. Well bunch. They are quite well organised and do feel organised and they do feel theyve ignored and theyve been ignored and belittled. So i got pile theyve been ignored and be|and d. So i got pile theyve been ignored and be|and d. Know, got pile theyve been ignored and be|and d. Know, its pile theyve been ignored and be|and d. Know, its notiile theyve been ignored and be|and d. Know, its not ae on and you know, its not a pleasant thing to wake up to on a sunday morning. Not nice, you know. But i do, i also do recognise what saying recognise what youre saying that now you will that people know now you will come youll come come through this, youll come out side. Thing to out the other side. The thing to do of course close your do is of course close your twitter. Yeah, well, the worst ining twitter. Yeah, well, the worst ining ro twitter. Yeah, well, the worst ining o no twitter. Yeah, well, the worst rning o no is twitter. Yeah, well, the worst thing to do is to yeah, well, the worst thing to do is to apologise ieeauee thing to do is to apologise because then thing to do is to apologise because then jump more and because then they jump more and the because then they jump more and ineie because then they jump more and ineie neve because then they jump more and the is never enough. The the apology is never enough. The nueiraring the apology is never enough. The frustrating saying. Frustrating i get people saying iranepnoie frustrating i get people saying transphobe |m frustrating i get people saying transphobe im not. Transphobe right . And im not. Im transphobe transphobe right . And im not. Im transphobe obviously. Im not a transphobe obviously. Im not a transphobe obviously. Iaoni im not a transphobe obviously. Idont believe im not a transphobe obviously. Idont believe in im not a transphobe obviously. I dont believe in some of i just dont believe in some of ine i just dont believe in some of rne ininge i just dont believe in some of the things that i just dont believe in some of the things that are being said. Ine vieiil the things that are being said. Ine vieii. Yeahr the nonsense. Yeah. Well, yeah, but im the nonsense. Yeah. Well, yeah, but im careful. But im careful. Im careful. Ana but im careful. Im careful. Ana vvnaie but im careful. Im careful. And whats the f im careful. And whats the frustrating part is inev and whats the frustrating part is inevinev and whats the frustrating part is they they then and whats the frustrating part is they they then message is they then they then message ani is they then they then message and i is they then they then messagej and i vanr and tweet to guests that i want to and tweet to guests that i want roon. And tweet to guests that i want roon. I and tweet to guests that i want toon. I wanted and tweet to guests that i want toon. I wanted to and tweet to guests that i want to on. I wanted to get leah to get on. I wanted to get leah remini to get on. I wanted to get leah ieeninilning to get on. I wanted to get leah remini,king of to get on. I wanted to get leah remini, king of queens remini, the king of queens aereeer remini, the king of queens aereeei vno remini, the king of queens actress who was remini, the king of queens actress who was a former scientologist, actress who was a former scientologist, to about scientologist, to talk about seienroiogv. Scientology. So im tweeting virn scientology. So im tweetingi virn aii with her. And underneath all ineee with her. And underneath all ineee peopie with her. And underneath all these people well, you these people going, well, you enouianr these people going, well, you shouldnthis these people going, well, you shouldnt his thing. Shouldnt go on his thing. Hes a iranefen shouldnt go on his thing. Hes a transfer. But shouldnt go on his thing. Hes a transfer. But im shouldnt go on his thing. Hes a transfer. But im like, well, inaie a transfer. But im like, well, thats defamatory, really. Its inienering thats defamatory, really. Its interfering my thats defamatory, really. Its interfering my work. Interfering with my work. Ive seenveri interfering with my work. Ive seen well. Theres interfering with my work. Ive seen well. Theres anl seen that as well. Theres an mp who story that happen to who long story that i happen to know jesse know vaguely called jesse norman, written a book, norman, whos written a book, and the book is about Francis Bacon in the sort of elizabethan rivalry cook, rivalry he had with edmund cook, you any time i speak you know, and any time i speak to it, good. See, to him about it, good. See, youve this book review and youve got this book review and stuff. Somebody comes in and goes, when are you going sort goes, when are you going to sort out rivers . This like the out the rivers . This like the river . Is filth it is river . Why is filth it is extraordinary. You have extraordinary. I mean, you have to learn how to use twitter. You have to use social have to learn how to use social media generally. To media generally. You have to recognise you just recognise is that if you just like go with the flow, you will end up places you dont want end up in places you dont want to end up yeah i think to end up in. Yeah i think thats something ive come thats something that ive come to recognise over the time ive been it started off been on it. It started off feeling much more like sort feeling much more like a sort of sunday afternoon in a saloon bar, you having a couple bar, you know, having a couple of quiet pints with mates of quiet pints with some mates and nowadays realise youre and nowadays you realise youre following goes up and you have responsibilities. Even responsibilities. I hardly even porner responsibilities. I hardly even bothertwitter responsibilities. I hardly even. Bothertwitter anymore bother with the twitter anymore no aoe bother with the twitter anymore now does feel bother with the twitter anymore now does feel like. Now because it does feel like ire now because it does feel like its gone now because it does feel like its gone a now because it does feel like in gone a iii now because it does feel like its gone a bitof now because it does feel like its gone a bit of fashion. Its gone a bit out of fashion. Iiavie its gone a bit out of fashion. Iiavieiuei its gone a bit out of fashion. Maybe just promote your maybe thats just promote your poaeaei ieee maybe thats just promote your podcast less and. Podcast on it, right . Less and reap. Podcast on it, right . Less and less. Even bother. Podcast on it, right . Less and less. Even bother. And less. I dont even bother. And inane less. I dont even bother. And inare pariiv less. I dont even bother. And thats partly because of vouiuiee thats partly because of youtubes ive thats partly because of youtu to s ive thats partly because of youtu to realise ive thats partly because of youtu to realise the e come to realise that all the going come to realise that all the going poieaei. Going on someone elses podcast, uneasi going on someone elses podcast, unieeeioe going on someone elses podcast, unieeeioe ieogan going on someone elses podcast, unless joe rogan, like all unless it is joe rogan, like all anar unless it is joe rogan, like all ma pruri unless it is joe rogan, like all that stuff, does unless it is joe rogan, like all that stuff, does very little. If you that stuff, does very little. If you pui that stuff, does very little. If you pur our that stuff, does very little. If you pur our a that stuff, does very little. If you put out a really good video, inare you put out a really good video, inanepeei you put out a really good video, thats best possible thing thats the best possible thing because mad thats the best possible thing. Because madlthe because it just goes mad in the aigoriinn because it just goes mad in the algorithmthats because it just goes mad in the algorithm thats how you get algorithm and thats how you get ne okay. Algorithm and thats how you get ne oiav. Veri new subscribers. Okay, well thats information thats useful information to know as well. Start a channel. Okay, pensioner okay, coming up, a pensioner is forced retire from tennis forced to retire from tennis because her local leisure listening to gb news radio. Listening to gb news radio. Vveieone listening to gb news radio. Welcome back listening to gb news radio. Welcome back to neil oliver live vviin welcome back to neil oliver live with me. Simon welcome back to neil oliver live with me. Simon evans welcome back to neil oliver live with me. Simon evans is cash king well, not for pensioner juliet casciano. The 80 year old has been forced to retire from her love of tennis because her local Sports Centre does not take cash. Sounds like a racket take cash. Sounds like a racket to me. Julia had wanted to get back on court after taking seven months off bed rest following a second hip replacement operation. You would think that would be encouraged to get our old people back on their feet. But no. Many people will welcome the inevitable move to a Cashless Society and would argue it has already helped shorten supermarket queues and indeed unsightly pocket bulges. But others like juliet and several Harry Enfield characters from the 1980s feel they are being left behind. There is also the question of whether it gives the state more power. Weve already seen evidence of that. When canadian Prime Ministerjustin trudeau froze the Bank Accounts of truckers who were protesting vaccine mandates, he couldnt have done that if they had taken cash. Have done that if they had taken cash. Im have done that if they had taken cash. Im joined have done that if they had taken cash. Im joined now by banking cash. Im joined now by banking and payments consultant bob lydon. Hello, bob. How are you . Lydon. Hello, bob. How are you . Hello. Im well, very well. Iveeiieni. Hello. Im well, very well. Excellent. In im well, very well. Excellent. In norfolk we still eaen excellent. In norfolk we still use cash a lot. Excellent. In norfolk we still use cash a lot. Are you . Thats iniereeiing. Use cash a lot. Are you . Thats interesting. Were use cash a lot. Are you . Thats interesting. Were in use cash a lot. Are you . Thats interesting. � fvi� rzi; it; \r interesting. Were in norfolk. Are you wells next . The sea. Oh, ieauiiiui are you wells next . The sea. Oh, peauiirui. Are you wells next . The sea. Oh, beautiful. Absolutely. I would beautiful. Absolutely. Iwould imagine you still take groats up there, but its interesting you mentioned that my parents before i start with the with the scripted questions, my parents actually live in norfolk. They live in a place called tacolneston, about ten miles south attleborough you south near attleborough. You probably part probably know that part of the world. And were actually world. And they were actually complaining recently that complaining to me recently that that attleborough and that i think attleborough and wyndham their wyndham are losing all their cash points they now have to cash points and they now have to travel 24 mile round trip to norwich to cash out. Yes. Norwich to get cash out. Yes. Yes, thats right. And \. ;;. P if. Gr rife yes. Yes, thats right. And thats yes, thats right. And thats vou yes, thats right. And thats you know. Yes, thats right. And thats you know. Ire yes, thats right. And thats you know, its a yes, thats right. And thats you know, its a knock on from ine you know, its a knock on from rne eerioue you know, its a knock on from the closure of you know, its a knock on from the closure of branches because pani the closure of branches because Bank Branches the closure of branches because Bank Branches go the closure of branches because Bank Branches go the cash naenine. Bank branches go the cash machine. So Bank Branches go the cash machine. So and thats the eiipperv machine. So and thats the slippery storie machine. So and thats the slippery slope which has never been slippery slope which has never been challenged slippery slope which has never been challenged by government, ieepiie been challenged by government, aeepire nanv been challenged by government, despite many pressure groups saying despite many pressure groups eaving inie despite many pressure groups eaving inie io despite many pressure groups saying this is no despite many pressure groups saying this is no good. But the proiien saying this is no good. But the proiien ie saying this is no good. But the problem is the saying this is no good. But the problem is the government aeruaiiv problem is the government actually agrees problem is the government actually agrees with it all. You know actually agrees with it all. You know from actually agrees with it all. You know from the actually agrees with it all. You know from the top down, the very top , know from the top down, the very rop. Vou know from the top down, the very rop. You know. Know from the top down, the very rop. You know. Irr know from the top down, the very top , you know, mr stanford top, you know, mr stanford univereiiv top, you know, mr Stanford University rishi sunak believes in reen university rishi sunak believes in en. University rishi sunak believes in en. Ne university rishi sunak believes in tech. He believes in fintech in tech. He believes in fintech aigiiai in tech. He believes in fintech Digital Payments in tech. He believes in fintech Digital Payments. And its his Digital Payments. And its his nanaaie Digital Payments. And its his mandate that Digital Payments. And its his mandate that under which the nann mandate that under which the rank or mandate that under which the bank of england mandate that under which the bank of england are looking at vvnai bank of england are looking at vnar inev bank of england are looking at what they call bank of england are looking at what they call the digital pound. What they call the digital pound, which what they call the digital pound, which would replace all of pound, which would replace all or inn. Pound, which would replace all of this, replace pound, which would replace all of this, replace cash machines ani of this, replace cash machines and make of this, replace cash machines and make everything work. Sonenovv and make everything work. Somehow theyre not quite sure nov somehow theyre not quite sure nov ire somehow theyre not quite sure now in going somehow theyre not quite sure now in going ro somehow theyre not quite sure how its going to work , but how its going to work, but nevertheless, how its going to work, but nevertheless, Just Trust Us and evervrning nevertheless, Just Trust Us and evervrning viii nevertheless, Just Trust Us and everything will be fine. Thats the everything will be fine. Thats rne neeeage everything will be fine. Thats rne age. Everything will be fine. Thats the message. Farage do you feel the message. Farage do you feel its the message. Farage do you feel its a the message. Farage do you feel its a eon the message. Farage do you feel its a eon oi the message. Farage do you feel its a sort of philosophical poeiiion its a sort of philosophical position, almost like a disposition position, almost like a disposition , position, almost like a disposition , a sentimental disposition, a sentimental attachment disposition, a sentimental attachment that certain people nave attachment that certain people nave ro attachment that certain people have to everything Going Digital as a eon have to everything Going Digital as a eon oi have to everything Going Digital as a sort of fundamental propoeiiion as a sort of fundamental proposition . As a sort of fundamental proposition . 39c g as a sort of fundamental proposition . Well, no , its you proposition . Well, no, its you see cash being used it to buy your leg without any. Okay. Im your leg without any. Okay. Im afraid. Rather ironically, our afraid. Rather ironically, our digital connection there as though to demonstrate the unreliability of the Digital World as if wed had him here in physical form, like cash, wed have been fine. What do you have been fine. What do you think about this . I mean , youre think about this . I mean, youre a young person, obviously younger than me. Still got your hair. You might be the same age. Have hair . Thats have you got your hair . Thats how get away it. Yeah, how you get away with it. Yeah, i sometimes wonder whether it i do sometimes wonder whether it is a generational thing is just a generational thing that we come into that we all have. We come into the world where theres a certain sort set of certain sort of set of parameters that dominate the certain conventions that seem normal us, but perhaps arent normal to us, but perhaps arent normal to us, but perhaps arent normal perhaps in 10 or normal at all. Perhaps in 10 or 15 years, well wonder why we ever thought it was more sensible to walk around with these strange plastic these strange papery plastic tokens. Yeah, i think i think that i know if im a young that i dont know if im a young im 34, so im teetering over that i dont know if im a young im edgeo im teetering over that i dont know if im a young im edge of� m teetering over that i dont know if im a young im edge of that. Andg over that i dont know if im a young im edge of that. And i over that i dont know if im a young im edge of that. And i amr that i dont know if im a young im edge of that. And i am very the edge of that. And i am very nuan the edge of that. And i am very nuen or the edge of that. And i am very nuen or a the edge of that. And i am very nuen or a eon the edge of that. And i am very much of a sort of 33 and i am very much of a sort of everything in noieraiion much of a sort of everything in moderation kind much of a sort of everything in moderation kind of person. So i seeire moderation kind of person. So i can see its moving very can see how its moving very faer can see how its moving very no for can see how its moving very fast for people can see how its moving very fast for people from different fast for people from a different generaiion generation. It might be difficult generation. It might be difficultat. Generation. It might bei difficultat the generation. It might be difficultat the same difficult for them. At the same rime. Difficult for them. At the same pp. I difficult for them. At the same time, i wonder difficult for them. At the same time, i wonder if difficult for them. At the same time, i wonder if we condescend aive time, i wonder if we condescend aive puer time, i wonder if we condescend aive iuei none a little bit. Ive just done an inierviev a little bit. Ive just done an interview richard dawkins, interview with richard dawkins, i interview with richard dawkins, i ne interview with richard dawkins, i ne popped interview with richard dawkins,j i ne poppea i think hes 83. He popped over for i think hes 83. He popped over ior ine i think hes 83. He popped over for the podcast. I think hes 83. He popped over for the podcast. Got his for the podcast. Hes got his poaeaei for the podcast. Hes got his own podcastout. For the podcast. Hes got his own podcast out. Hes own podcast coming out. Hes rooting own podcast coming out. Hes iooving ai own podcast coming out. Hes iooving ai ine own podcast coming out. Hes looking at the cameras and eruri. Looking at the cameras and eruri. Vou looking at the cameras and stuff. You can looking at the cameras and stuff. You can use card. Now. Stuff. You can use a card. Now. Nee stuff. You can use a card. Now. Hes intelligent. Hes particularly intelligent. Okay. Hes particularly intelligent. Okayspoke hes particularly intelligent. Caravepove io hes particularly intelligent. Okay, spoke to my okay, but i spoke to my dad aioui okay, but i spoke to my dad aioui inie okay, but i spoke to my dad about this before as well. Hes nee about this before as well. Hes hes intelligent. About this before as well. Hes hes intelligent. About this before as well. Hes hes intelligent. r about this before as well. Hes hes intelligent. r hes intelligent. And also sorry to well to interrupt, but hes well funded, he . There some funded, isnt he . There are some People Struggle bit people who struggle a little bit possibly in terms of possibly to adapt in terms of intelligence or, know, just intelligence or, you know, just age, who, you know, age, but also who, you know, might expensive to might find it expensive to actually able all actually be able to adopt all these new measures . Well, its just of what i might not be just sort of what i might not be fully understanding because fully understanding it because as i can, know, debit as far as i can, you know, debit card, you go and for card, you go and pay for something go, beep, something and you go, beep, yeah. Whats whats the difficulty . Yeah. Whats whats the difficulty . On, 415 . Whats whats the difficulty . O � yeah. Whats whats the difficulty . Oh, well, if if difficulty . Oh, well, if you if its something that takes a debit card, theres no difficulty. Instance, my difficulty. But for instance, my parents who, as i say, complaining now, they struggled to have a cleaner to get cash. They have a cleaner who fortnight and who comes once a fortnight and she to take cash, not she wants to take cash, not least because doesnt always she wants to take cash, not least btheise doesnt always she wants to take cash, not least btheise amount. Always she wants to take cash, not least btheise amount. She iys charge the same amount. She might get there and go, well, this is going to three hours this is going to be three hours work ive done some ironing work or ive done some ironing for so they could set up for you. So they could set up a direct they you direct debit. They could, you know mean . But actually know what i mean . But actually these are difficult these things are quite difficult once youre in 80s, you once youre in your 80s, you know, of these things are know, some of these things are intimidating also they have intimidating and also they have a all that sort of a gardener and all that sort of thing as mean, im thing as well. I mean, im making them sound like theyre living middle living a nice, pleasant middle class either class lifestyle, but they either would garden or they would have a garden or they would have a garden or they would sleeping would disappear, like Sleeping Beauty behind bushes beauty behind the rose bushes quite i mean, there quite quickly. But i mean, there is i think, you know, is also i think, you know, i dont know if this is the elephant the or whether elephant in the room or whether people are avoiding talking about think is a about it. But i think there is a temptation often avoid the temptation often to avoid the some people prefer cash because they can avoid paying tax. Right. The builders, right. You get in the builders, you have 2 or 3 grands you might have 2 or 3 grands worth of done might worth of work done and you might think, we, can we, think, how much can we, can we, you know, and i suppose legitimately that is a concern to the government. Well, exactly. And thats of exactly. And thats one of the maininane exactly. And thats one of thei main thatsgoing main things thats going going to main things thats going going ro inen main things thats going going ro inen ae main things thats going going ro inen ae voul main things thats going going. To then as you were to change. But then as you were saying to change. But then as you were eaving anar to change. But then as you were saying thatstuff to change. But then as you were saying thatstuff is saying that trudeau stuff is nine. Saying that trudeau stuff is p. Ringing. Saying that trudeau stuff is fine, tingling, you know, ininving fine, tingling, you know, ininving nv. Thinking about that, oh, my. Inai thinking about that, oh, my. Inaii thinking about that, oh, my. Thati couldnt thinking about that, oh, my. That i couldnt believe that he was i couldnt believe inan that he was i couldnt believe inar. Ani that he was i couldnt believe inar. And i that he was i couldnt believe that. And i cant that he was i couldnt believe that. And i cant believe that anar that. And i cant believe that inn spoken that. And i cant believe thati that spoken about that. And i cant believe that that that spoken about that. And i cant believe that that that just oken about that. And i cant believe that that that just stopped out more, that he just stopped peopie fueri more, that he just stopped people just because people having money just because he didnt agree with their noiiing he didnt agree with their holding money. r he didnt agree with their holdingmoney. And also holding their money. And also anore holding their money. And also merevero holding their money. And also rnerevvere a holding their money. And also therewere a. Ofl there was there were a lot of attempts to raise money for them. There were plenty of people saw people in america who saw that they kind of heroes over they were kind of heroes over they were kind of heroes over the who and they had the border who and they had gofundmes those gofundmes or whatever. And those were and then gofundmes or whatever. And those were of and then gofundmes or whatever. And those were of the and then gofundmes or whatever. And those were of the charitiesid then gofundmes or whatever. And those were of the charities im� ien some of the charities im getting down slightly getting down a slightly different rabbit hole. But this did some the of did happen. Some of the some of the had raised the platforms that had raised money dont the platforms that had raised mone which dont the platforms that had raised mone which ones dont the platforms that had raised mone which ones it dont the platforms that had raised mone which ones it was dont the platforms that had raised mone which ones it was decided, know which ones it was decided, which, alternative which, which alternative good causes go to causes that money would go to because going to the because it wasnt going to the truckers. As truckers. That struck me as absolute extraordinary. But but equally, i mean, theres a podcast know if podcast you probably know if youre called youre a podcaster called trigonometry. Yes. And they recently had their bank account closed because the bank disagreed with the teller and they far extremist by they are far from extremist by any. I mean, they are very much in with gb news kind of in line with gb news kind of approach discourse. Was that approach to discourse. Was that was paypal approach to discourse. Was that naeravrai or approach to discourse. Was that waspaypal or wasit was that paypal or was it. It naeni was that paypal or was it. It vvaeni ravrai was that paypal or was it. It wasnt paypal , was that paypal or was it. It wasnt paypal , but it was wasnt paypal, but it was eoneining wasnt paypal, but it was eoneining i wasnt paypal, but it was something i cannot remember the uigirai. Something i cannot remember the name. Digital, one something i cannot remember thei name. Digital, onethose name. Some digital, one of those slightly will slightly trendy banks that will try out that theyre try and make out that theyre actually like actually a slightly like a happier, funnier , more happier, smoother, funnier, more likely a friend. You go for a walk in the park with and they just to have know walk in the park with and they juscredit to have know walk in the park with and they jusCredit Facility ave know walk in the park with and they jusCredit Facility ones know walk in the park with and they jusCredit Facility ones and know walk in the park with and they jusCredit Facility ones and itnow , a Credit Facility ones and it turns theyre always the turns out theyre always the sinister know, is sinister ones. You know, this is the thing. What do you think . The thing. So what do you think . I i do remember there i mean, i do remember there there joke that there was a famous joke that went the 70s. Was a went around in the 70s. I was a kid at time, decimalisation kid at the time, decimalisation in about 1971. What everyone kid at the time, decimalisation in alwas1971. What everyone kid at the time, decimalisation in alwas they what everyone kid at the time, decimalisation in alwas they should at everyone kid at the time, decimalisation in alwas they should at ev but i do wonder whether it is just one of those things were going have to adapt to. Do going to have to adapt to. Do you last the decade you think itll last the decade cash at this cash in any form at this point, maybe a few years. I dont know cash in any form at this point, maybe raboutfears. I dont know cash in any form at this point, maybe rabout itars. I dont know cash in any form at this point, maybe about it really, dont know cash in any form at this point, maybe about it really, except now enough about it really, except to enough about it really, except ioeeene enough about it really, except ioeeenelnv enough about it really, except to seems my fairly to say it seems in my fairly young to say it seems in my fairly youngio to say it seems in my fairly youngto make to say it seems in my fairly young to make sense that to say it seems in my fairly youngto make sense that we young mind to make sense that we nouri young mind to make sense that we vouia vou young mind to make sense that we vouia you know. Young mind to make sense that we would you know, that we would useii would you know, that we would ueeiiiie would you know, that we would useiiire eo would you know, that we would useitits so much. Use card. It just its so much easierido use card. It just its so much easier. Ido worry, use card. It just its so much easier. Do worry, though, easier. I do worry, though, apour easier. I do worry, though, aioui ine easier. I do worry, though, about the privacy concerns and vnar poverl about the privacy concerns and. Vvnai povver inev what government the power they nave. What government the power they nave. Wgn, what government the power they navevein i what government the power they have. Well, i will what government the power they have. Well, i will be one have. Yeah well, i will be one of have. Yeah well, i will be one or inope have. Yeah well, i will be one of those left have. Yeah well, i will be one of those left bereft. I know. I onii of those left bereft. I know. I still remember the good old days. You could do the double at the comedy store. Double at the banana and home with £800 comedy store. Double at the bayour and home with £800 comedy store. Double at the bayour and but me with £800 comedy store. Double at the bayour and but there ith £800 comedy store. Double at the bayour and but there we £800 in your pocket. But there we are. Days. Joining me are. Happy days. Joining me after the break, Christopher Mcgovern , the chairman the mcgovern, the chairman of the campaign real education, who campaign for real education, who believes the private School System in serious danger of system is in serious danger of collapse as fees continue to rise. Be back from 9. 30 on sunday morning. Iand from 9. 30 on sunday morning. |anu vveinne from 9. 30 on sunday morning. I and welcome back from 9. 30 on sunday morning. And welcome back to from 9. 30 on sunday morning. And welcome back to neil oliver from 9. 30 on sunday morning. And welc yourback to neil oliver from 9. 30 on sunday morning. And welc your cash to neil oliver from 9. 30 on sunday morning. And welc your cash onlytil oliver live with me. Your cash only host simon evans. It looks likely that soon only the super rich will be able to afford to give their children private education. Thats under proposals by sir keir starmer and a future labour government. When people think of private education, many already of course, picture toffs in top hats attending elite schools such as eton and saint pauls. But thousands of slightly less prestigious and slightly less expensive schools will also be affected. Labour says, adding vat will raise about £1. 6 billion a year to help recruit more staff in vital subjects such as maths and physics in the state sector. Though we all know thats not how tax works. But thats not how tax works. But will all those independent schools even survive to pay their tax . Many parents are already struggling to cover the fees. Might they not just give fees. Might they not just give up entirely . What then to up entirely . What then to discuss this, im joined by chairman of the campaign for real education, chris mcgovern. Hello, chris. Hi there. Hi so weve got a good signal. Good camera angle. Were confident this conversation is going to see its full length spread out before it before i start. And for those who might not be familiar with it, can you give us a very brief and succinct summary of what the campaign for real education regards as real education . Well, the campaign for real education started in the 1980s, and we were set up originally to defend Grammar Schools. But originally to defend Grammar Schools. But essentially we schools. But essentially we ieiieve schools. But essentially we ieiieve in f but essentially we believe in education actually eiueaie. Believe in education actually eiueaie. So. Believe in education actually educate. So, for believe in education actually educate. So, for example, we verv educate. So, for example, we verv errong educate. So, for example, we were very strong from the beginning were very strong from the beginning and were very strong from the beginning and teaching children pnoniee beginning and teaching children pnoniee. Beginning and teaching children phonics , which beginning and teaching children phonics , which had been in the phonics, which had been in the guire phonics, which had been in the news quite recently. Our argunenie news quite recently. Our arguments proved to right arguments proved to be right are arguments proved to be right araeso arguments proved to be right arierso or arguments proved to be right after50 or 60 arguments proved to be right after 50 or 60 years, we after sort of 50 or 60 years, we peiieve after sort of 50 or 60 years, we ieiieve in after sort of 50 or 60 years, we ieiieve in a after sort of 50 or 60 years, we believe in a more after sort of 50 or 60 years, we believe in a more traditional approaen believe in a more traditional approach education, similar approach to education, similar to approach to education, similar ioonee approach to education, similar toones which approach to education, similar to ones which perhaps you to the ones which perhaps you get to the ones which perhaps you gei ae get in countries such as singapore get in countries such as singaporein get in countries such as singapore in shanghai, get in countries such as singaporein shanghai, in singapore or or in shanghai, in cnina singapore or or in shanghai, in cnina or singapore or or in shanghai, in china or japan. Singapore or or in shanghai, in china or japan. A singapore or or in shanghai, in china or japan. A more china orjapan. A more traditional china orjapan. A more. Traditionalwhich china orjapan. A more traditionalwhich was traditional approach which was commonine traditional approach which was commonthe 50s. Traditional approach which was common the 50s. Now common here in the 50s. Now vveereounirv common here in the 50s. Now werecountrylthel were the only country in the ieveiopea were the only country in the developed world developed world where grandparents outperform their grandchildren. Grandchildren. So yes, we ieiieve grandchildren. So yes, we believe learning believe we believe in learning your believe we believe in learning yourani believe we believe in learning vourani going believe we believe in learning yourand doing a believe we believe in learning your and doing a bit of your tables and doing a bit of ore your tables and doing a bit of roie iearning your tables and doing a bit of rote learning occasionally. And rote learning occasionally. And we rote learning occasionally. And vveir rote learning occasionally. And vveir ine rote learning occasionally. And wein the teacher rote learning occasionally. And we in the teacher the we believe in the teacher at the nonr rainer we believe in the teacher at the front rather than i front of the class rather than reaenere teachers wandering between iinereni teachers wandering betweeni different forth. Different tables and so forth. So different tables and so forth. So pareniai different tables and so forth. So parental choice, more traditional so parental choice, more traditional approach. And really traditional approach. And really, when traditional approach. And really, when we say real, we mean an approach that works. So anar mean an approach that works. So inai our mean an approach that works. So that ouractually mean an approach that works. So that our actually can that our kids actually can eonpeie that our kids actually can compete with that our kids actually can compete with the best. Viii compete with the best. Well, youve compete with the best. Well, vouvene compete with the best. Well, youve me absolutely on youve sold me absolutely on board with all of that. So presumably dont have a presumably you dont have a strong moral position on independent schooling one way or the other in terms of the privileged and so on. It bestows and whether thats good, its more a question of what those schools offer in terms of an actual education. Absolutely. Actual education. Absolutely. Viere actual education. Absolutely. Were non political actual education. Absolutely. Were non political. Elf ci l. Rte. Absolutely. Were non political. We at ci l. Ta. Absolutely. Were non political. We tend at. Ci l. Ta. Absolutely. Were non political. We tend to were non political. We tend to be en were non political. We tend to be seen as being were non political. We tend to be seen as being more on the igne be seen as being more on the rigni. Nui be seen as being more on the right. But actually i served on the right. But actually i served on rne ruc right. But actually i served on rne iiic. Right. But actually i served on rne iiic. Eo right. But actually i served on rne iiic. So i right. But actually i served on the tuc , so i dont call that the tuc, so i dont call that panieuiariv the tuc, so i dont call that particularly right wing. We particularly right wing. We favour particularly right wing. We favourand particularly right wing. We favour and what i would favour quality and what i would say, favour quality and what i would say vou favour quality and what i would say vou know. Favour quality and what i would say vou know. In favour quality and what i would say, you know, in this country ani say, you know, in this country andrained say, you know, in this country andtalked about say, you know, in this country and talked about this in and ive talked about this in ine and ive talked about this in rne oxford and ive talked about this in the oxford union and so forth, caniriage al cambridge union, theres a divine. Cambridge union, theres a divineire cambridge union, theres a divide,its not cambridge union, theres a divide, its not really divide, but its not really ieivveen divide, but its not really between private sector and the eiaie between private sector and the eiaie eeeoni between private sector and the state sector. Its between private sector and the state sector. Its a between private sector and the state sector. Its a divide ieivveen state sector. Its a divide between on state sector. Its a divide between on good schools and inaieguare between on good schools and inadequate schools. And if vouve inadequate schools. And if vouve goi inadequate schools. And if vouve goi a inadequate schools. And if youve got a lot inadequate schools. And if youve got a lot of money, yeah, you youve got a lot of money, yeah, vou an youve got a lot of money, yeah, vou go youve got a lot of money, yeah, vou go ro youve got a lot of money, yeah, vou go o a youve got a lot of money, yeah, you can go to a private school or vou you can go to a private school or vou buy you can go to a private school or vou buy a you can go to a private school or you can buy a house in the earenneni or you can buy a house in the earennenia or you can buy a house in the catchmenta good or you can buy a house in the catchment a good state catchment area of a good state eenooi. Catchment area of a good state eenooi. Ive catchment area of a good state school. We have catchment area of a good state school. We have schools school. So we have good schools ani school. So we have good schools and proiieni school. So we have good schools. And proiien. And we have thats the problem. Iriviiege and we have thats the problem. Privilege comes and we have thats the problem. Privilege comes in and we have thats the problem. Privilege comes in many privilege comes in many flavours, doesnt it . So how is this likely to affect this vat charge likely to affect private schools . Presumably its some of them will not be able to maintain their their sort of surpa and demand intersection is going to suffer, right . Yeah its not all top hats and toffs at its not all top hats and toffs ai privaie its not all top hats and toffs at private school. Its not all top hats and toffs at private school. Believe me. Inere at private school. Believe me. Inere are at private school. Believe me. There are some at private school. Believe me. There are some schools like that ana there are some schools like that and inevre there are some schools like that and inevre verv there are some schools like that and theyre very successful. And theyre very successful. They and theyre very successful. Inev viii and theyre very successful. They will survive, course. They will survive, of course. I mean, youre eatons and your sainr mean, youre eatons and your saini rauie mean, youre eatons and your saint pauls and mean, youre eatons and your saint pauls and so forth. Inevre saint pauls and so forth. Inevreio saint pauls and so forth. Theyre to survive. Theyre going to survive. But ineree theyre going to survive. But theres schools theyre going to survive. But theres schools which theres a lot of schools which areninete theres a lot of schools which aremiddle of theres a lot of schools which aremiddle of the theres a lot of schools which are middle of the road. Are more middle of the road. Sonerinee are more middle of the road. Sometimes they are more middle of the road. Sometimes they serve children vviin sometimes they serve children viin inevre with special needs and theyre reaiiv with special needs and theyre reaiivnave with special needs and theyre really have budgets. Really they have tight budgets. Andlyou really they have tight budgets. Andlyou airi really they have tight budgets. And you add 20 vat to the and if you add 20 vat to the fees. And if you add 20 vat to the fees. Inev and if you add 20 vat to the fees, they will and if you add 20 vat to the fees, they will close. And vnaie fees, they will close. And vvnare going fees, they will close. And whats going to happen is youre going whats going to happen is youre going io whats going to happen is youre going rovee whats going to happen is youre going to yes, youre going going to have yes, youre going to going to have yes, youre going ioeone going to have yes, youre going tosome schools going to have yes, youre going to some schools paying vat to have some schools paying vat to have some schools paying vat ro ine to have some schools paying vat to the government, to have some schools paying vat to the government, but youre going to the government, but youre going io to the government, but youre going ro nave to the government, but youre going ro nave a to the government, but youre going to have a mass exodus of eniiiren going to have a mass exodus of children also going to have a mass exodus of children also entering state eenooie. Children also entering state eenooie. Vou children also entering state. Schools. Youon children also entering state. Schfone youon children also entering state schfone hand, you on children also entering state schfone hand, you ou on children also entering state schfone hand, you lose. On children also entering state schfone hand, you lose. On on children also entering state schfone hand, you lose. On the the one hand, you lose. On the one the one hand, you lose. On the one nano the one hand, you lose. On the other hand. So the one hand, you lose. On the other hand. So its the one hand, you lose. On the other hand. So its really the ponies other hand. So its really the poiiiiee oi other hand. So its really the politics of envy other hand. So its really the politics of envy and its really aepreeeea politics of envy and its really aepreeeea io politics of envy and its really depressed to that politics of envy and its really depressed to that we have depressed to think that we have we depressed to think that we have venere depressed to think that we have venere sonne depressed to think that we have we here some great schools. We have here some great schools. They we have here some great schools. Inev enouia we have here some great schools. Inev enouia eiav we have here some great schools. They should stay open we they should stay open and we enouia they should stay open and we should respect they should stay open and we should respect parental choice. Should respect parental choice. Inaie should respect parental choice. Thatsshould should respect parental choice. Thatsshould be should respect parental choice. Thats should be worried thats what we should be worried apour thats what we should be worried apourline thats what we should be worried about. The fact thats what we should be worried about. The fact that thats what we should be worried about the fact that if you about is the fact that if you iivea about is the fact that if you river in about is the fact that if you river in a about is the fact that if you lived in a deprived area of nriiain lived in a deprived area of britain, youre lived in a deprived area of britain, youre 27 times more iiveiv britain, youre 27 times more new io britain, youre 27 times more likely ro go britain, youre 27 times more likely ro go io britain, youre 27 times more likely to go to a britain, youre 27 times more likely to go to a Failing School inan likely to go to a Failing School inaniive likely to go to a Failing School inaniivela likely to go to a Failing School thanlivela posh likely to go to a Failing School than live a posh area. Than if you live in a posh area. Inaie than if you live in a posh area. Inaie ine than if you live in a posh area. Thats the divide. Than if you live in a posh area. Thats the divide. So we should forger thats the divide. So we should rorgei aioui thats the divide. So we should forget about this thats the divide. So we should forget about this business of eioeing forget about this business of closing schools. Forget about this business of closing schools. Want closing private schools. We want to closing private schools. We want ioeiaie closing private schools. We want tostate schools closing private schools. We want to state schools better so to make state schools better so anar to make state schools better so that children to make state schools better so that children will to make state schools better so that children will not need to go io that children will not need to go o privaie that children will not need to go to private schools. And, you know. Go to private schools. And, you vnovvlvou go to private schools. And, you vnovvlvou go go to private schools. And, you know,. You go back go to private schools. And, you know, you go back to the 50s know, if you go back to the 50s ani know, if you go back to the 50s and privaie know, if you go back to the 50s and private schools and 60s, many private schools vvereon ine and 60s, many private schools wereon the vine were withering on the vine ieeauee were withering on the vine because schools because Grammar Schools were going because Grammar Schools were aoinglgreai because Grammar Schools were aoinglgreai foi because Grammar Schools were doing great job and private doing a great job and private eenooie doing a great job and private schools were doing a great job and private schools were less necessary. Now we schools were less necessary. Now ve Program Schools were less necessary. Now we are Program Schools, but aieo pro we are Program Schools, but were also pro technical eenooie. Were also pro Technical Schools. We were also pro Technical Schools. We think we want a reeioraiion schools. We think we want a restoration of schools. We think we want a restoration of lots of grammar eenooie restoration of lots of grammar eenooie ana restoration of lots of Grammar Schools and we restoration of lots of Grammar Schools and we want very good goin schools and we want very goodi gold technical Gold Standard quality, technical eenooie Gold Standard quality, Technical Schools alongside perhaps from the schools alongside perhaps from rne age schools alongside perhaps from rne age or schools alongside perhaps from rne age or re schools alongside perhaps from the age of 13 so schools alongside perhaps from the age of 13 so that children do the age of 13 so that children to nor the age of 13 so that children to nor see the age of 13 so that children do not see going the age of 13 so that children do not see going to a non grarnrnar do not see going to a non Grammar School as a failure. You goeounrrv Grammar School as a failure. You goeounrrvae go to a country such as switzerland go to a country such as switzerland or germany, they nave switzerland or germany, they have schools switzerland or germany, they. Have schools. They have Grammar Schools and they aieo have Grammar Schools and they alsotechnical have Grammar Schools and they also technicaland also have Technical Schools and ineree also have Technical Schools and ineree no also have Technical Schools and theres no difference in terms of theres no difference in terms orpreerige theres no difference in terms ofprestige and theres no difference in terms of prestige and in fact, you of the prestige and in fact, you know. Of the prestige and in fact, you nonro of the prestige and in fact, you know,toltechnical| know, if you go to a technical eenooi know, if you go to a technical eenooi ana know, if you go to a Technical School and come know, if you go to a Technical School and come out as a plumber know, if you go to a technical scianl and come out as a plumber know, if you go to a technical scian electrician, out as a plumber know, if you go to a technical scian electrician, youre a plumber or an electrician, youre propapiv or an electrician, youre probably you probably going to get a job. You pairi probably going to get a job. You paid a probably going to get a job. You paid a ior probably going to get a job. You pain a ior or probably going to get a job. You paid a lot of money. Whereas if you paid a lot of money. Whereas if you 90 paid a lot of money. Whereas if vou go io paid a lot of money. Whereas if vou go o an paid a lot of money. Whereas if you go to an academic school, navie you go to an academic school, maybe becausel you go to an academic school, maybe because you maybe you wont be because you may maybe you wont be because you nay ae may get a job like me as a nieiorian may get a job like me as a historian, you may get a job like me as a historian, you dont get paid nuen. Historian, you dont get paid nuen. A historian, you dont get paid much. A teacher, historian, you dont get paid much. A teacher, you dont much. So or a teacher, you dont get much. So or a teacher, you dont gei rnar. Much. So or a teacher, you dont gei rnar. So much. So or a teacher, you dont get that. So its. Get paid a lot for that. So its a nonsense. And get paid a lot for that. So its a nonsense. And ofsted that we vaiue a nonsense. And ofsted that we vaiue oniv a nonsense. And ofsted that we vaiue oniv ine a nonsense. And ofsted that we value only the academic. The academic and. Academic is important and privaie preirvl academic is important and private pretty good private schools are pretty good at private schools are pretty good aiaieo private schools are pretty good aiaieo ve private schools are pretty good atalso we want private schools are pretty good at also we want very at that. But also we want very good at that. But also we want very good guaiirv at that. But also we want very good quality Technical Schools, vnerner whether theyre private or vvneiner whether theyre state. We should focus focus on quality of schools, not vvneiner focus on quality of schools, not whether private focus on quality of schools, not whetherprivate or whether theyre private or independent. Whether theyre private or independent. Should applaud independent. We should applaud the independent. We should applaud ine inevre independent. We should applaud inelainevre independent. We should applaud the a great theyre independent. We should applaud the a great job theyre independent. We should applaud the a great job ththee independent. We should applaud the a great job ththe whole, doing a great job on the whole, ani doing a great job on the whole, andvnerner doing a great job on the whole, andwhether you doing a great job on the whole, and whether you have and can i ask whether you have any and can i ask whether you have anynov and can i ask whether you have anvnovv ine any sense of how the demographics might change within the demographics might change within ine veiie demographics might change within the well . Because the schools as well . Because i know the schools as well . Because i know already private schools attract children from attract a lot of children from overseas. Many them, overseas. Many of them, of course, board many parts of the world. The English PrivateEducation Sector is still regarded prestigious and regarded as very prestigious and especially the rising especially in the rising economies in east. Would are economies in the east. Would are they likely to take up the places which local struggling parents in this country are unable to afford . Yeah certainly. Imean, unable to afford . Yeah certainly. I mean, look, i spent narr certainly. I mean, look, i spent naii nv certainly. I mean, look, i spent naii my career t i mean, look, i spent half my career teaching in the eiaie half my career teaching in the eiaie eeeori half my career teaching in the state sector and half my career teaching in the state sector and comprehensive eenooie state sector and comprehensive eenooie in state sector and comprehensive schools in the state sector and comprehensive schools in the second half in ine schools in the second half in rne privare schools in the second half in the private sector. I can guaranree the private sector. I can guarantee that if the places areni guarantee that if the places areni raven guarantee that if the places arent taken up guarantee that if the places arent taken up by british parenie arent taken up by british parents, theyll be taken up by parenie parents, theyll be taken up by parenie non parents, theyll be taken up by parents from overseas. You know ,w. As a campaign parents from overseas. You know , we as a campaign often say, for evanpie , we as a campaign often say, for example, if , we as a campaign often say, for example, if you go to singapore. For example, if you go to singapore, you for example, if you go to singapore, you go to shanghai. Inere singapore, you go to shanghai. There brilliant singapore, you go to shanghai. There Brilliant Education eveiene there Brilliant Education systems. But there Brilliant Education systems. But if youve got a lot of systems. But if youve got a lot or money systems. But if youve got a lot or nonev in systems. But if youve got a lot of money in singapore and in snangnai. Of money in singapore and in shanghai,your of money in singapore and in shanghai, your kids to shanghai, you send your kids to ingiana shanghai, you send your kids to england private england to the best private eenooie. England to the best private schools. Should england to the best private schools. Should. Really schools. So we should be really proud schools. So we should be really proudeenooie schools. So we should be really proud schools and proud of those schools and aieoiuieiv proud of those schools and absolutelythe proud of those schools and absolutely the moment, absolutely, at the moment, privare absolutely, at the moment, privarenave absolutely, at the moment, privatehave to absolutely, at the moment, private have to turn private schools have to turn down private schools have to turn down overseas private schools have to turn down overseas applicants because inevve down overseas applicants because inevve goi down overseas applicants because inevve goi io down overseas applicants because theyve got to maintain some eon theyve got to maintain some sortbalance. Theyve got to maintain some. Sort. Balance. Turn sort of balance. But if you turn away sort of balance. But if you turn away ingiani sort of balance. But if you turn away ingiani. Sort of balance. But if you turn away england , were going to away england, were going to pure away england, were going to buildeconomies away england, were going to build economies of our build the economies of our rivaie build the economies of our rivaie. Navei build the economies of our. Rivals. Have the rivals. Were going to have the vine kids coming here and theyre going veri kids coming here and theyre going well. Its. Going to do very well. Its reaiiv going to do very well. Its really masochistic. We insist. Really masochistic. We insist. Iiavne really masochistic. We insist. Iiavne vnar really masochistic. We insist. Iiavne vnar ve really masochistic. We insist. Maybe what we should really masochistic. We insist. Maybe what we should do is insist if your child is educated insist if your child is educated in private school, in a british private school, they stay here and work they have to stay here and work for afterwards in for here ten years afterwards in order feed their intelligence order to feed their intelligence and their education back into the into the the british the into the soil of the british ecology. What do you think . Well, look, we dont believe too in well, look, we dont believe too ne o well, look, we dont believe tool in so we probably in much statism, so we probably vvouiinr wouldnt go for that. But im evnparneiie wouldnt go for that. But im sympathetic idea we sympathetic with the idea we vani sympathetic with the idea we vanr peopie sympathetic with the idea we want people who are educated nere want people who are educated nere io want people who are educated nere ro reen want people who are educated here to feed back want people who are educated here to feed back into the economy. Look here to feed back into the economy. Look , here to feed back into the economy. Look , were not economy. But look, were not going economy. But look, were not goinglbe economy. But look, were not goinglpe pig economy. But look, were not going be big brother. Thank going to be big brother. Thank you going to be big brother. Thank vou chris going to be big brother. Thank you chris is you very much. Chris is marvellous chatting you and marvellous chatting to you and i see east sussex, man. So see you in east sussex, man. So hopefully you for hopefully well catch you for a pint at some point when im back down in hove soon. Take down in hove very soon. Take care. Andrew. I dont care. Thank you, andrew. I dont know. Children know. Do you have children yourself . Okay. Yourself . No not yet, no. Okay. I mean, we have a couple and weve through weve put them through private education, something education, and its something i almost talking almost feel embarrassed talking about, you know, but its absolutely ruinously expensive. Absolutely ruinously expensive. I am not entirely convinced it was the best use of the money, but there it is. Its done. But you youre caught you do feel that youre caught now in a double bind because on the one hand, its already horrendously the one hand, its already horrerto usly the one hand, its already horrerto get more expensive. Going to get more expensive. And at time, your children at the same time, your children are, i think , persecuted to are, then i think, persecuted to some extent the same grades when they come out of sixth form at a level will not be given the same offers as if they were to have those grades coming out of state school. Adaptation is being school. The adaptation is being made higher education. So made by the higher education. So it real it feels like theres a real squeeze on. Its a really squeeze going on. Its a really announ squeeze going on. Its a really difficult one, squeeze going on. Its a really difficult one, isnt squeeze going on. Its a really difficult one, isnt it . Squeeze going on. Its a really difficult one, isnt it . I git g rzzr its a really difficult one, isnt it . I went to difficult one, isnt it . I went o a difficult one, isnt it . I went o a privaie difficult one, isnt it . I went to a private school myself and i aieo to a private school myself and i also embarrassment also have that embarrassment eorneiirnee also have that embarrassment sometimes saying as if sometimes of saying it as if rive sometimes of saying it as ifj like handed sometimes of saying it as if. Like handed to like every thing was handed to vou. Like every thing was handed to vou in like every thing was handed to vou in nv you. And in reality, in my epenene you. And in reality, in my experience, anyway, we werent verv experience, anyway, we werent very friends experience, anyway, we werent very friends oi very different to friends of ine very different to friends of. Mine grammar mine who went to Grammar Schools and mine who went to Grammar Schools anieenooie. Mine who went to Grammar Schools andschools. We mine who went to Grammar Schools andschools. We just mine who went to Grammar Schools and schools. We just and and state schools. We just and iiienaei and state schools. We just and michaelwent and state schools. We just and michaelwent to and state schools. We just and michael went to my Michael Mcintyre went to my eenooi. Michael mcintyre went to my eenooi. Igne Michael Mcintyre went to my school, right. Michael mcintyre went to my school, right. So Michael Mcintyre went to my school, right. R r r if r school, right. So he do remind me of well, not as posh as me of him. Well, not as posh as him, but hes hes like hes very quite posh and all that, but hes very relatable. Thats the his comedy, the whole point of his comedy, ioni the whole point of his comedy, ieni ro the whole point of his comedy, ieni io inel isnt it . He can relate to the averaeg isnt it . He can relate to the average person isnt it . He can relate to the average person we like. V rzzr. Average person we like. You know. Average person we like. You know. One average person we like. You know. Are one average person we like. You know, the one thing that everyone private everyone says about private education, people who everyone says about private educatom, people who everyone says about private educrto it people who everyone says about private educrto it who people who everyone says about private educrto it who are tople who everyone says about private educrto it who are convinced went to it and who are convinced because i was state because i didnt i was state educated. But the one thing people talk about is the confidence with not confidence you come out with not not in an not better educated in an academic but you have academic sense, but you have a way bearing. And that seems way of bearing. And that seems to amount, you know, way of bearing. And that seems to drama. Amount, you know, way of bearing. And that seems to drama. Youtmount, you know, way of bearing. And that seems to drama. You know, , you know, way of bearing. And that seems to drama. You know, , you knthey of drama. You know, they do they do little more public do a little bit more public speaking. They tend to spend their weekends either on their weekends either putting on musicals play musicals or of course, they play a i think those a bit more sport. I think those two between you two things between them, you know, that know, it actually isnt that complicated. Rugby complicated. The years of rugby and all those kinds of things, team and those things, team sports and those things, you also just you probably team sports and those things, y bililso just you probably team sports and those things, ytbit special. Ou probably team sports and those things, ytbit special. I, probably team sports and those things, ytbit special. I, i robably team sports and those things, ytbit special. I, i dontily team sports and those things, ytbit special. I, i dont know. A bit special. I, i dont know. Nur a bit special. I, i dont know. Our vnar a bit special. I, i dont know. Our vnai i a bit special. I, i dont know. But what i was. But what i was, what i was saying but what i was, what i was eaving apoui but what i was, what i was saying about Michael Mcintyre is the saying about Michael Mcintyre is rne poinr saying about Michael Mcintyre is rne poinrrnen saying about Michael Mcintyre is the pointthen, it the point was back then, it naeni the point was back then, it vvaeni a the point was back then, it wasnt a difference. And the point was back then, it wasrif a difference. And the point was back then, it wasrif youre difference. And the point was back then, it wasrif youre goingence. And the point was back then, it wasrif youre going to ce. And the point was back then, it wasrif youre going to charge now if youre going to charge ug now if youre going to charge thatschools, that much for schools, the peopie ineeel that much for schools, the people these private people who go to these private eenooie people who go to these private eenooie people who go to these private schools are not people who go to these private schools are not going to be able to schools are not going to be able io inen schools are not going to be ablej io inen vouve to be relatable. And then youve got to be relatable. And then youve goi ii to be relatable. And then youve goi ii gooe to be relatable. And then youve goi ii gooa io got to wonder, is it good to seni got to wonder, is it good to send nv got to wonder, is it good to send my vide got to wonder, is it good to send my kids there if theyre so airierenr send my kids there if theyre so different. The send my kids there if theyre so differentthe rest send my kids there if theyre so different the rest of different from the rest of eoeierve different from the rest of society . Is different from the rest of society . Is a different from the rest of society . Is a possible society . There is a possible way around think would around it, which i think would smooth the thing around it, which i think would smodont the thing around it, which i think would smodont want the thing around it, which i think would smodont want to the thing around it, which i think would smodont want to have thing around it, which i think would smodont want to have in thing you dont want to have in society is significant step changes between haves and changes between the haves and the want a smooth the have nots. You want a smooth landscape. Thing would landscape. One thing that would smooth would smooth the landscape out would be voucher system be to have a voucher system whereby every of course, whereby every child, of course, roughly six grand a year to educate a child in the state sector very roughly, but roughly, and about four and a half school. In half at primary school. But in the schools, if the comprehensive schools, if you be a voucher you were to be given a voucher for six grand for every child you have thats hitting state school then can school age, and then you can choose local choose to spend it at your local state and you pay nothing state school and you pay nothing more or you pay towards more or you pay it towards your fees. To go fees. If you wanted them to go to a slightly better school, then would have, you know, then you would have, you know, a range schools a range of range of schools with a range of facilities. The range of schools with a range of faciliof s. The range of schools with a range of faciliof facilities the range of schools with a range of faciliof facilities that the range of schools with a range of faciliof facilities that 18 the range of schools with a range of faciliof facilities that 18 grand kind of facilities that 18 grand a pay kind of facilities that 18 grand a pay for. If you a year might pay for. If you really you can go for the really flush, you can go for the 40 grand a year school. But if you just top it up you only want to just top it up a little bit and just say, i want them to have like nice want them to have like a nice education with some playing want them to have like a nice education 01 some playing want them to have like a nice education 01 s0ischool, ing want them to have like a nice education 01 s0ischool, maybe fields next to the school, maybe that 12 a year. Fields next to the school, maybe thatmight 12 a year. Fields next to the school, maybe thatmight be 12 a year. Fields next to the school, maybe thatmight be able a year. Fields next to the school, maybe thatmight be able to a year. Fields next to the school, maybe thatmight be able to findfear. Fields next to the school, maybe thatmight be able to find the you might be able to find the extra do you want i mean, that would just smooth out would just smooth things out a bit. Enlightened bit. Well, enlightened education, chances education, what are the chances finally, after the break, well be chatting to drew ratter, who is of brownite is treasurer of brownite lodge trust islands, trust in the shetland islands, where is on the market where a castle is on the market for grand. Thats five for just 30 grand. Thats five years of state school. There is a dont go away. See you a catch. Dont go away. See you in minute. On a catch. Dont go away. See you in minute. On mark dolan in a minute. On mark dolan ionigni. In a minute. On mark dolan ionigni. In in a minute. On mark dolan ionignr. In my in a minute. On mark dolan tonight. In my big on mark dolan tonight. In my big opinion, the governnenr tonight. In my big opinion, the government silenced covid eriiiee government silenced covid critics during government silenced covid critics during the pandemic. Is anonev critics during the pandemic. Is anyone surprised critics during the pandemic. Is anyone surprised . Plus, as the anyone surprised . Plus, as the eveeiienr anyone surprised . Plus, as the eveeiieni un anyone surprised . Plus, as the excellent uk australia trade ieai excellent uk australia trade ieai kicke excellent uk australia trade deal kicks in excellent uk australia trade deal kicks in brexit, britain is proving deal kicks in brexit, britain is proving ine deal kicks in brexit, britain is proving the doubters wrong. My naiv proving the doubters wrong. My main neeie proving the doubters wrong. My mark meets guest proving the doubters wrong. My mark meets guest is the extraordinarily brave war hero craig extraordinarily brave war hero craig narrieon extraordinarily brave war hero craig harrison, famous for the iongeer craig harrison, famous for the iongeer sniper craig harrison, famous for the longest sniper shot in the none. Longest sniper shot in the world. 2. 5km. Longest sniper shot in the world. 2. 5km. Talk about hitting the world. 2. 5km. Talk about hitting rne iargeie world. 2. 5km. Talk about hitting rne iargeie. World. 2. 5km. Talk about hitting the targets , but world. 2. 5km. Talk about hitting the targets , but in my take at the targets, but in my take at ten the targets, but in my take at ien ine the targets, but in my take at ien rne narrv the targets, but in my take at ten, the harry and meghan brand is ten, the harry and meghan brand ie in ten, the harry and meghan brand ie in free ten, the harry and meghan brand ie in free rari ten, the harry and meghan brand is in free fall. Ten, the harry and meghan brand is in free fall. If ten, the harry and meghan brand is in free fall. If you bought earene is in free fall. If you bought earene in is in free fall. If you bought shares in this is in free fall. If you bought shares in this self absorbed duo shares in this self absorbed iuo. I shares in this self absorbed iuo. I nouri shares in this self absorbed duo, i would advise you to sell eeri duo, i would advise you to sell eeii. Duo, i would advise you to sell eeii. Eeri duo, i would advise you to sell sell, sell plus duo, i would advise you to sell sell, sell plus us duo, i would advise you to sell sell, sell plus us news duo, i would advise you to sell sell , sell plus us news with sell, sell plus us news with american sell, sell plus us news with american showbiz queen kinsey senoiieia. American showbiz queen kinsey senorieia. My american showbiz queen kinsey schofield. My top american showbiz queen kinsey schofield. My top pundits , schofield. My top pundits, tomorrows papers and harry neavnapp tomorrows papers and harry neavnapp iive tomorrows papers and Harry Redknapp live on the show iieeueeing redknapp live on the show discussing the redknapp live on the show discussing the fa cup final and why discussing the fa cup final and why guer discussing the fa cup final and why iuer prop discussing the fa cup final and why iuer erop ei discussing the fa cup final and why Just Stop Oil are targeting proreeeionai why Just Stop Oil are targeting professional sport. Were live from professional sport. Were live from nine professional sport. Were live from nine till professional sport. Were live from nine till 11 professional sport. Were live from nine till 11 on. Gb news and i gb news. And welcome i on news and welcome back i on neve and welcome back to neil oliver iive and welcome back to neil oliver iive viin and welcome back to neil oliver iive vviin ne and welcome back to neil oliver live with me simon evans, the onion live with me simon evans, the onion iove live with me simon evans, the british love a live with me simon evans, the british love a ruin live with me simon evans, the british love a ruin. Tidy british love a ruin. Many of our favourite buildings and some would say favourite tv presenters are craggy, remains of former glories, whether the abbeys left open to the skies like broken molars in the aftermath of Thomas Cromwells sucker punch or the castles that once projected power into the darkest corners of the kingdom and now lie quiet at sunset like old warriors dozing by the fire. They capture something of the deep time that our nation embodies, echoes of our uniquely glorious , colourful and eventful glorious, colourful and eventful island story. And there is something to very pleasing in watching the gradual process of nature reclaiming quarried stone winding her leaf and branch around the once proud turrets and slowly returning them to her bosom, even on an old tractor on a country ramble is often picturesque, flaking paint iron dissolving into rust and old rubber become a nest for beetles, birds or mice , a beetles, birds or mice, a reassuring reminder that all things must pass, especially when certain things in life seem to be outstaying their welcome. So yes, i love a ruin. Still, im not sure id want to live in one that leads me on to my next story. A castle in shetland is on the market for just £30,000. Andrew what do you think . Would you fancy living in a castle . Well, its not for me, is it . You do get these people. Were my fiance. You do get these people. Were my fiance. Ana you do get these people. Were my fiance, and i you do get these people. Were my fiance, and i are getting married. My fiance, and i are getting married, and my fiance, and i are getting married, and weve looking married, and weve been looking aouni married, and weve been looking aroundeasies married, and weve been looking aroundeaeiiee. Married, and weve been looking around castles , and you around a few castles, and you get around a few castles, and you gei eeeenirie around a few castles, and you. Get eccentric people around a few castles, and you get live eccentric people around a few castles, and you get live in eccentric people around a few castles, and you get live in them, centric people around a few castles, and you get live in them, you ric people around a few castles, and you get live in them, you ric pec and who live in them, you know, and inev who live in them, you know, and inev guer who live in them, you know, and inev iuer rive who live in them, you know, and they just live there who live in them, you know, and they just live there for, like, 30 they just live there for, like, so veare. They just live there for, like, no veare. Ani they just live there for, like, 30 years. And theyre always they just live there for, like, 30 ye sort and theyre always they just live there for, like, 30 ye sort and the spoken ays they just live there for, like, 30 ye sort and the spoken ,ys they just live there for, like, 30 ye sort and the spoken , posh, quite sort of well spoken, posh, runny quite sort of well spoken, posh, funny eccentrics, quite sort of well spoken, posh, funny eccentrics, you know, inere funny eccentrics, you know, inereranoue funny eccentrics, you know, there Famous Family i there was a Famous Family i cani there was a Famous Family i eani iianeei cant remember the flames or eoneining cant remember the flames or Something Like cant remember the flames or Something Like that. Rzy c iii Something Like that. They lived in a Something Like that. They lived in a caste Something Like that. They lived in a castle in devon. They were famous because they swore extraordinary freely. Even the children were about eight children there were about eight children there were about eight children riding around on tractors and so tractors in the grounds and so on. Became National Heroes on. They became National Heroes for i think they had for a while. I think they had their yeah, they their own series. But yeah, they couldnt afford to heat, you know, quarters know, three quarters of the place. All turning to place. It was all turning to mould. Then there are mould. Then again, there are other people. There was a chap called roger deacon who was a nature died quite nature writer. He died quite young, but was he was young, sadly, but he was he was the inspiration and the of the inspiration and the sort of great hero of robert macfarlane, whos become the nature whos become the doyen of nature writers he wrote writers now. And he he wrote a book called waterlog, which was about which started the whole wild swimming craze in uk. Wild swimming craze in the uk. He real eccentric. He he was a real eccentric. He renovated an Old Farmhouse near diss in suffolk, and he lived in the inglenook fireplace while he was doing it up. I mean, it was a complete ruin. And he even then only did it up to the extent that it became basically windproof and weatherproof. But he clear out the bats or he didnt clear out the bats or the owls or the mice or any of it, you know. When had it, you know. And when he had it, you know. And when he had it, building it, you know, building regulations investigate it, you know, building regthey ns investigate it, you know, building regthey said, investigate it, you know, building regthey said, youve investigate it, you know, building regthey said, youve got stigate it, you know, building regthey said, youve got aigate it. They said, youve got a family owls living in the family of owls living in the attic. It was like, yes, isnt it marvellous . You know, have some eccentrics it marvellous . You know, have some live eccentrics it marvellous . You know, have some live that eccentrics it marvellous . You know, have some live that. centrics it marvellous . You know, have some live that. Ientrics who can live like that. I suppose would probably suppose my wife would probably have something to say about it. I know. The island of i dont know. The island of fetlar, incidentally, where this castle is, is of particular interest to ornithologists. It seems this is up in shetland. Its home to a wide variety of bird life. Inaya including one of britains rarest breeding birds, the red necked phalarope as well as whimbrels red throated divers, golden plovers, eider ducks , arctic skuas and eider ducks, arctic skuas and arctic terns, amongst many others. Ill be honest, i feel others. Ill be honest, i feel sorry that neil himself is not here to wax lyrical on all those names. Thats 30 grand. They names. Thats 30 grand. They want for bruff lodge. I mean, thatis want for bruff lodge. I mean, that is the price of a of a flat. But they reckon it will cost about £12 million to do it up and make it what the what the owners imagine it could be. I mean and who is then going to go and spend i dont know how many residents youd need to keep ticking you ticking over to. Yeah. Do you rernernerp in ticking over to. Yeah. Do you remember in italy t. Couldnt you . You get a few bell tents, you know, then you tents, you know, and then you get a couple of bands get you get a couple of bands playing and obviously , playing there. And obviously, youre to be troubled youre not going to be troubled by it has by police as well. So it has some of appeal of a yacht. Some of the appeal of a yacht. You what mean . Where you you know what i mean . Where you can you know, what did Frankie Boyle you i love boyle said . You know, i love this said that this routine. He said that however your yacht is, however expensive your yacht is, its going to be much more its never going to be much more comfortable a comfortable than being in a premier inn during mild premier inn during a mild earthquake. But what it is, is earthquake. But what it is, is its mobile crime scene. Yeah. Its a mobile crime scene. Yeah. You can anything you want on you can do anything you want on on and get away with it. On a yacht and get away with it. Well, this, this well, i think this, this, this lodge probably i lodge is probably similar, i think. Well, i think its a good idea. Think. Well, i think its a good idea. Vouve think. Well, i think its a good idea. Youve got well, i think its a good idea. Youve got quite a few ideas. Idea. Youve got quite a few iieaeinie. Ideas. I like all this. The education ideas. I like all this. The education and ideas. I like all this. The education and this. People can oran education and this. People can eian eaeiiee education and this. People can start castles. Start glamping in castles. Vean start glamping in castles. Veaniove start glamping in castles. Yeah,love to. Start glamping in castles. Yeah,love to. I. Start glamping in castles. I yeah,love to. I would yeah, i would love to. I would really like to retire up. I do have friends who i stay with when edinburgh when i do the edinburgh festival, property festival, who also have property on of shetland. And on on the isle of shetland. And its main shetland now its main economy, shetland now is, of course, as you can imagine, it is, a brand imagine, what it is, a brand name for horses, right . Name for mini horses, right . Yeah, yeah. Shetland horses are bred of shetland and bred on the isle of shetland and its champagne and its a bit like champagne and stilton. Theyre only allowed to call shetland if call them shetland horses if they come from shetland. And then put them in crates and then they put them in crates and they wealthy they ship them out to wealthy families america who to families in america who want to give daughters 6 or give their little daughters 6 or 7 age. They them 7 years of age. They give them a little mini pony. They little mini Shetland Pony. They absolutely it. Thelwell absolutely love it. Thelwell cartoons and then the Shetland Pony experience is the lovely, mild climate of indiana or whatever it is. And they they whatever it is. And they they become horribly ill and they get diabetic and metabolic disorders and they keel over and die. Sounded like you were quite happy. Horrific, because the shetland ponies are just used to living hideous conditions living in the hideous conditions of scotland. Very sad. Of northern scotland. Very sad. Thats have time for. Thats all we have time for. Youve watching oliver youve been watching neil oliver live simon evans, live with me. Simon evans, thanks my studio and thanks to my studio guest and podcaster andrew thank you podcaster andrew gold. Thank you very night. Good very much. Good night. Good evening. Im greg. T c g good evening. Im Greg Dewhurst and vveione evening. Im Greg Dewhurst and veiorne io evening. Im Greg Dewhurst and welcome to your evening. Im Greg Dewhurst and welcome to your latest gb news vveainer welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. Welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. It welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. It does turn guiie weather forecast. It does turn guiie eniiiv weather forecast. It does turn quite chilly tonight, but with nign quite chilly tonight, but with nign pressure quite chilly tonight, but with High Pressure charge, well High Pressure in charge, well pienrv High Pressure in charge, well pieniv oi High Pressure in charge, well see plenty of sunshine through suniav see plenty of sunshine through sunday ani see plenty of sunshine through sunday and temperatures eiiniing sunday and temperatures climbing, particularly in the veer. Climbing, particularly in the veer. Nign climbing, particularly in the west. High Pressure Centre just to west. High Pressure Centre just ro ine west. High Pressure Centre just ro rne nonn west. High Pressure Centre just to the north of west. High Pressure Centre just to the north of us west. High Pressure Centre just to the north of us means the vines to the north of us means the winds eriii to the north of us means the winds still coming in from the nonneaer. Winds still coming in from the nonneaer. So winds still coming in from the northeast. So eastern coast, a iiiiie northeast. So eastern coast, a iiirie iii northeast. So eastern coast, a little bit chilly, northeast. So eastern coast, a little bit chilly, but further veer. Little bit chilly, but further west, temperatures remaining above west, temperatures remaining aiove averaeg west, temperatures remaining above average for the time of year above average for the time of year so above average for the time of year. So far above average for the time of year. So far. Above average for the time of year. So far , an above average for the time of year. So far , an end to the day. Year. So far, an end to the day. Vie year. So far, an end to the day. We viii year. So far, an end to the day. We viii see year. So far, an end to the day. We will see some year. So far, an end to the day. We will see some low cloud across northeast we will see some low cloud across northeast scotland and aieo across northeast scotland and aieoingiani across northeast scotland and also england feeding also Eastern England feeding eioviv also Eastern England feeding eioviv paci also Eastern England feeding slowly back inland, making its way slowly back inland, making its way iovarie slowly back inland, making its way towards the slowly back inland, making its way towards the midlands during the way towards the midlands during inenoure. Way towards the midlands during thehours. But way towards the midlands during thehours. Butwill. The early hours. But there will be the early hours. But there will peirv the early hours. But there will bedry weather the early hours. But there will be dry weather around be lots of dry weather around eiear be lots of dry weather around eiear eiiee be lots of dry weather around clear skies in be lots of dry weather around clear skies in the be lots of dry weather around clear skies in the west and we eouii clear skies in the west and we eouii eee clear skies in the west and we eouii a clear skies in the west and we could see a few clear skies in the west and we could see a few shallow mist and fog parenee could see a few shallow mist and fog parenee ani could see a few shallow mist and fog patches and temperatures dipping fog patches and temperatures iipping inro fog patches and temperatures dipping into figures. So dipping into single figures. So yes, dipping into single figures. So yesv a dipping into single figures. So yesv a eniiiv dipping into single figures. So yes, a chilly start dipping into single figures. So yes, a chilly start to sunday morning. Yes, a chilly start to sunday morning. Pui yes, a chilly start to sunday morning, but for yes, a chilly start to sunday morning, but for many a sunny eran. Morning, but for many a sunny eran. Vie morning, but for many a sunny eran. Vie io morning, but for many a sunny start. We do have morning, but for many a sunny start. We do have low cloud, eenrrai start. We do have low cloud, eenirai ani start. We do have low cloud, central and eastern parts. This eioviv central and eastern parts. This eioviviaei central and eastern parts. This slowly back towards the slowly burns back towards the eoaen slowly burns back towards the eoaen linini slowly burns back towards the coast. Think eastern parts of coast. I think eastern parts of scoring coast. I think eastern parts of scotland, the coast. I think eastern parts of scotland, the towards the east eoaei scotland, the towards the east eoaei or scotland, the towards the east coast of england scotland, the towards the east coast of england could see some iou ani coast of england could see some ion ana viin low cloud at times. And with ug low cloud at times. And with that northeasterly breeze, it viii that northeasterly breeze, it viii ie that northeasterly breeze, it will be chilly that northeasterly breeze, it will be chilly. Will be quite chilly. Temperatures struggling grimsby inere temperatures struggling grimsby inere. Temperatures struggling grimsby inere. Ie temperatures struggling grimsby there , 13 degrees. Temperatures struggling grimsby there , 13 degrees. But come there, 13 degrees. But come runner there, 13 degrees. But come pun. There, 13 degrees. But come further , temperatures further west, temperatures rising further west, temperatures rieing inro further west, temperatures rising into the further west, temperatures rising into the low 20s locally, 25 degrees rising into the low 20s locally, 25 degrees ie rising into the low 20s locally, 25 degrees is possible , say for 25 degrees is possible, say for pane 25 degrees is possible, say for pane of 25 degrees is possible, say for pane of veer 25 degrees is possible, say for parts of west wales into the evening parts of west wales into the evening iine parts of west wales into the evening time. Parts of west wales into the evening time. Plenty of dry evening time. Plenty of dry veainer evening time. Plenty of dry veainer io evening time. Plenty of dry weather to come. Maybe an ieoiaiei weather to come. Maybe an isolated shower weather to come. Maybe an isolated shower across scotland, but isolated shower across scotland, iui nosi isolated shower across scotland, but most places isolated shower across scotland, but most places are dry. And inen but most places are dry. And then overnight but most places are dry. And then overnight we see the low eioui then overnight we see the low eioui puening then overnight we see the low cloud pushing back in from the nonn cloud pushing back in from the worn g. Cloud pushing back in from the north sea, thicker cloud pushing back in from the north sea, thicker and lower. Ani north sea, thicker and lower. Ana inie north sea, thicker and lower. And this could north sea, thicker and lower. And this could just produce a revv and this could just produce a few spore and this could just produce a few epoie or and this could just produce a few spots of drizzle though. Vveeiern few spots of drizzle though. Western areas few spots of drizzle though. Western areas staying dry and eiear Western Areas staying dry and clear once more Western Areas staying dry and clear once more and temperatures again clear once more and temperatures again inro clear once more and temperatures again inio eingie clear once more and temperatures again into single figures. So a bit again into single figures. So a iii of again into single figures. So a iii of a again into single figures. So a bit of a westie again into single figures. So a bit of a westie split to start iioniav bit of a westie split to start monday morning. Sunny skies iovvarie monday morning. Sunny skies towards northern ireland, scoring towards northern ireland, scotland, west wales , the west scotland, west wales, the west eounirv. Scotland, west wales, the west country. Elsewhere quite cloudy. Nui country. Elsewhere quite cloudy. Nui again country. Elsewhere quite cloudy. But again, the country. Elsewhere quite cloudy. But again, the cloud through the. But again, the cloud through rne eav. But again, the cloud through the day should. But again, the cloud through the day should lift and break ani the day should lift and break and eioviv the day should lift and break and slowly retreat towards the eoaen and slowly retreat towards the eoaen ii and slowly retreat towards the coast. It might and slowly retreat towards the coast. It might take its time ani coast. It might take its time and temperatures rising to the nia and temperatures rising to the mid zeo and temperatures rising to the mid zen in and temperatures rising to the mid 20s in the and temperatures rising to the mid 20s in the west and tuesday ani mid 20s in the west and tuesday and wednesday mid 20s in the west and tuesday and wednesday staying very einiiar and wednesday staying very einiiar. And wednesday staying very similar. Further and wednesday staying very similar. Further sunshine and nigner similar. Further sunshine and higher temperatures. On mark higher temperatures. On mark noian higher temperatures. On mark ioian ionignr higher temperatures. On mark dolan tonight. Higher temperatures. On mark dolan tonight. Higher temperatures. On mark dolan tonight. Jig dolan tonight. In my big opinion, the government silenced covid critics during the pandemic. Is anyone surprised . Pandemic. Is anyone surprised . Plus, as the excellent uk australia trade deal kicks in brexit, britain is proving the doubters wrong. My mark meets guest is the extraordinarily brave war hero, craig harrison, famed for the longest sniper shot in the world, 2. 5km. Talk about hitting the targets in my take at ten. The harry and meghan brand is in free fall. If you bought shares in this self absorbed duo, i would advise you to sell, sell, sell plus us news with american showbiz queen kinsey schofield. My showbiz queen kinsey schofield. My top pundits. Tomorrows papers and Harry Redknapp live on the show discussing the fa cup final and why Just Stop Oil are targeting professional sports. Were live from 9 to 11 sports. Were live from 9 to 11 on. Gb news roe v