0 was doing it and i had that document prepared, handwritten in the neatest handwriting that i could make because a secretary other than mine, a paralegal other than mine was going to be the person who was going to put those -- that financial information into the final document. and that's the document that mark ball talked about that he found on my desk whenever it was that he found it. so that is what was going to be, if necessary, what was going to be used thursday. >> the jury has heard about testimony of you stealing client funds. did you do that? >> i did. >> did you steal or divert that fee away from the law firm? >> i did. how did you get in such a financial predicament that led you to steal money that wasn't yours? >> you know, i'm not quite sure how i let myself get where i got. it came from -- i battled that addiction for so many years. i was spending so much money on pills. i got in a spot i couldn't -- >> what type of addiction are you referring to? >> my addiction is to opiate painkillers. specifically oxycodone, oxycontin. >> when did you first become dependent or addicted to opioids? >> oxycodone or opiates in general? >> opiates in general. >> i'm not quite sure of the exact date. i can give you a time frame. i hurt my knee really bad playing football in college. i had a knee surgery. the medical science at the time was such that the surgery didn't work, bottom line. so it just didn't last. so within a couple years of that, i started having a lot of knee troubles. ultimately i had to have a couple of surgeries. but the last surgery i had was i think around 2002 or 4. i think it was around 4. so i would have started taking hydrocodone a couple of years before that. i took hydrocodone, got addicted to that very quickly. i continued taking that for a long time. i would -- i'd force myself off of it, go back to it. i just battled that for a long time. after a while, i was taking so much of that, i moved on to oxycodone. you know, i'm guessing that was around 2000 -- that transition was around 2008, 9. something like that. of course, it just escalates, escalates. >> did you receive treatment or go to detox on occasion? >> i did. >> how many times? >> that i went to detox or detoxed? >> let's start with going to a detox facility. >> i've been to a detox facility three times. >> when was the first time? >> december of 2017. >> okay. before december 2017, have you tried to detox at home? >> i tried to detox everywhere i could. maggie would help me. >> when you went in to -- was it inpatient facility? >> the detox? the formal detoxes? >> in december of 2017. >> yes, inpatient. all formal three detoxes have been at the same facility called sunrise detox in atlanta, georgia. very good facility. >> jury has heard an audio tape of a telephone conference with sled agents. is that where you were in that meeting? >> that's correct. >> the first time you went to the detox in atlanta -- how long a stay is that? >> seven days is the opiate detox program. >> is there a difference between detox and rehab? >> yes. >> what's the difference? detox is the -- it's the act of getting the drugs out of your system. getting to the point where, okay, there is no longer a physical dependency. all right? that's a big difference than the rest of the dependency. the physical dependency is supposed to be gone after seven days. in other words, the -- there's so many things. opiate withdrawal is -- i mean, it's hard. but supposedly at the end of seven days, you don't have the physical symptoms like -- i don't want to be too graphic, but you're sick, you throw up, you have terrible diarrhea. you sweat like you're running a marathon. you can't hold your legs still. you can't lay down like -- what i'm talking about, the legs moving, that goes away after 24 hours. after 24 hours, you can lay down again and maybe sleep some. but you sweat, you throw up. there's so many issues. after seven days, that's supposed to be over. that's what detox the detoxification of your body. >> what is rehab? >> that is the period that you go to learn how to stay off. you know? you're supposedly off after detox. rehab is where you get help staying off. >> before september 2021, had you ever gone through the second stage of rehab? >> no. >> so in june -- december 2017, how long did it take you to relapse once you got home from detox? >> not long at all. you still going through -- the physical dependency is gone. you're still so sick. >> is that something that you have been battling for quite some time? >> as long as i can remember. >> how long you been drug-free, opioid-free? >> 535 days. i'm very proud of that. >> i want to ask you questions about labor day weekend, 2021. do you remember being confronted by your law firm? >> sure, i do. >> what were you confronted about? >> stealing money. >> did you admit your misconduct to your law partners? >> well, to one of my law partners and one of -- and my brother and my law partner, danny and randy. yeah. >> they learned about a fake forge account. you amid the fake forge account? >> yes. i did. >> did you tell them about your opioid struggles? >> i told them about my addiction, yes, sir. >> to your knowledge, were any of your law partners aware of your addiction? >> not just to my knowledge. i'm certain that they were not aware of my addiction. >> how would you characterize your point use, your addiction? severe, moderate? >> then or now? >> no, in 2020, 2021. >> i don't know how i would have characterized it then. after going to rehab, learning, more of the things i've learned, really talking to addicts about experiences. i mean, i will tell you that my addiction was extremely, extremely bad. >> how were you able to function or were you able to function? >> yes, i was able to function. >> you were able to law? >> yes. >> and were you successful practicing law while you were addicted to opioids? >> on some level, yes, sir. i was successful. i mean -- >> after you were confronted on labor day weekend, 2021, did you resign or were you forced to resign from the law firm? >> absolutely. >> and then on saturday, september 4, do you remember what happened that day? >> saturday, september 4, yes, sir, i remember. >> what happened? >> when i woke up? >> well, let's start after you met with chris wilson. did you meet with chris wilson? >> i met with chris wilson at my mom and dad's house in alameda. >> did you lay it out for chris wilson, your opioid addiction and your misconduct? >> i definitely laid out my addiction. i definitely gave him some details about monies that i had taken. i didn't give him -- we didn't go into all of the details about all of it. i certainly was very candidate with him about the things that involved him. >> had you already contacted the detox facility before you met with chris wilson on the fourth? >> i believe that we had al already -- add that point, i believe we had already spoken to the guy that i knew from sunrise and made arrangements for me to go there on monday. >> okay. >> i know we had arrangements for me to go there monday. i'm sure we had to have had it by then because i went to the hospital shortly after that. yes. >> did you reach out to get your insurance information? >> i did. >> for what purpose? >> because i was going to use my insurance at detox and rehab to help pay for it. >> and what was your immediate plans after -- the day after you met with chris wilson? did you have plans to do anything, have any other meetings on that saturday? >> i wanted to go and meet with corey fleming, who is another lawyer that was affected by the things i did. >> okay. did you -- >> and a good friend. >> did you meet with corey fleming? >> no. >> what did you do instead? >> i had given my -- when i gave my pills to my brother, randy and danny, i think i gave them to randy, but i had taken -- i took a lot of pills because i knew i wasn't going to be taking anymore. so randy had my pills. i had to get some from him the night before. i only got a small amount. i could tell, you know -- i wasn't taking anything near like what i had been taking. so i knew it was coming. i called someone to bring me more pills. i believe before i met with chris wilson. >> did you meet this -- did the person you called bring you more pills? >> you know, i don't know if he brought me more pills or not. because by the time i met with him after meeting with chris and after, you know, the starting of the withdrawals, i changed my plans. >> and what was the change in plans? not to get pills from him anymore. and instead i asked him to shoot me. >> did you ask him to shoot you as a sympathy ploy or did you want -- >> as a sympathy ploy? >> why did you ask him to shoot you? what was the end goal that you wanted to accomplish? >> i meant for him to shoot me so i'd be gone. >> what was this? what did you ask to do this? >> eddie smith. >> did he in fact shoot you? >> he did. >> where was that located? not your gunshot, but where were you shot in hampton or -- where were you? >> it's hampton county. it's on the road right along the river. >> and why did you want to be gone? >> i mean, i knew all this was coming to a head. i knew how humiliating it was going to be for my son. i had been through so much. at the time, the bad place that i was, it seemed like the better thing to do. i don't think that way now thankfully, but i did at the time. >> did you have life insurance on you? >> yeah, i had a lot of life insurance. >> who was the beneficiary? >> maggie was the beneficiary. >> how much life insurance did you have? >> i had $12 million. i had $4 million policy and a $8 million policy. total of 12. >> did you have life insurance on maggie? >> no, never. >> you ever have life insurance on paul? >> no. >> alex, will you tell this jury about maggie and your relationship with her. >> ya'll saw a picture. she was just as beautiful inside as she was outside. she was so adventurous. i mean, you couldn't tell her something was good or bad. she wanted to find out for herself. she wanted to do it, see it, experience it on her own and form her own opinion. she was devoted. those two boys, buster, paul, me, i mean she made sure we didn't want for anything ever. fun, playful. she had a laugh that -- you didn't have to know what was funny if you heard her laugh. you would laugh. you know, she had this playful look where she would smile at you and bite her lip. i can't do it. when she would do it, it would melt you. you knew she was such a lady, such a feminine person, a girl, but then she had two boys. i mean, she didn't grow up in the swamp and in the country riding four wheelers and hunting and fishing. i mean, she changed everything. she became a boy's mom. i mean, her life became ball and riding four wheelers and -- i mean, doing those things. don't get me wrong. she was still 100% girl. you heard marion say, she loved to do those things with her nieces. she threw herself in to her boys life. she might not have worked but i promised you she worked. she worked to make sure me and paul and buster had everything. you know, she wanted a big family. pregnancy didn't suit her. her pregnancies were so hard. i would leave her in the mornings and she would be sick. i'd come home and check on her and she'd be sick. i'd come back at the end of the day and she would be sick. she was so sick all the time with both of those boys. when we had paw paw, maggie got in trouble. the pregnancy didn't suit her. we decided that, you know, we would just have the two boys. you know, i just think how hard it was on her, just made her love those boys. so much more. she did. but she was the kind of person, maggie, you know, she could put on the most elegant ball gown and go to the governor's mansion and hang out with, you know, the most affluent people, whatever, or she could come down to -- go to a food bank in hampton or walterboro and fit in. everybody at both places would say, that maggie, she's a good one. she's just a special person. very special person. >> would you ever do anything to harm maggie. >> i would never hurt maggie. ever. >> would you tell the jury about paul, please? your relationship with him. >> paul paul, i mean, paul paul was the brightest, he was -- he's the most inquisitive young man. he wanted to be a part of everything. if you were working, i can remember as a little boy, you'd be working on something. didn't matter what it was. his little head was going to come in there. just nose in there to see what you were doing. he was a man's man. he was 100% country boy. he was tough. i mean, he could hunt anything. he could catch any fish. he could run any piece of equipment. he could use any tool. i mean, he could do anything. at 22 years old, he could do so many things. he took care of so many -- he was so tough. but on the other hand, he had a side to him that was just so sweet. i mean, he wouldn't come home -- he would go near summerville to go out of his way to check on his grandparents. you know, to be such a tough person, he would get all of his buddies and get on a boat and go watch a sunset. how many 22-year-old people you know do stuff like that? he was such a special boy. he cared about people. he was fiercefully loyal. he was so misrepresented in the media. never, never an accurate story about what he was. i will challenge you right now, i will challenge everybody in this room to go find somebody, somebody that knew paul paul that didn't have an ulterior motive that would say something negative about him. i challenge everybody that can hear me now to do that. paul was that kind of person if you knew him. he would help you. he would be glad to help you. you know, i thought mark ball made a good point when he said, you know, paul paul might not have quiet found his place yet. paul was add, adhd. so he would jump around from thing to thing a lot. but there's absolutely no question in my mind whatsoever that paul paul would have found whatever that thing was that he was going to do. whatever that ended up being, he was going to be one of the best at it that you've ever known. i tell you one more thing, i didn't even know this when paul was a llive, but -- excuse me. when they were doing his eulogy, i gave the names of some of his friends. he had a real cute friend that they were just friends. cute little girl. maggie adored her. i didn't know her very well. they talked to her. paul paul, we learned this from her, julie ann, and at 22 years old, learned that paul paul would tell his friends be present, appreciate where you are, the things you have and the people around you. i think a lot of that came from it hurt paul so bad when mallory died. but how many 22-year-olds do you know that think that way? be present. appreciate things around you. at 22 years old. he was the most special boy. >> did you love paul? >> did i love him? like no other. he and buster. >> did you love maggie? >> more than anything. i loved maggie from the first time we went out. >> did you kill maggie? >> no, i did not kill maggie or paul. i would never hurt maggie and i would never hurt ball ever, under any circumstances. >> thank you. please answer any questions that they may have. >> yes, sir. >> we're going to take -- >> excuse me, judge. >> we're going to take a ten-minute recess. please do not discuss the case. >> martha: wow. dramatic to be sure watching this case play out. the alec murdaugh double murder trial and those murdered were members of his family. his wife and his son, paul, who we heard a lot about today. he has admitted that he lied when he talked about where he was when they were killed. but he has insisted that he did not kill them. judge jeanine pirro joining us watching this. judge jeanine, he's admitted that he lied and he stole from his law firm and he said something very interesting that i want to start with here in this first sound bite. this is at the beginning of this session. this is call number 1. >> i didn't shoot my wife or my sonny time. ever. most of all, i'm sorry to mags and paul paul. i would never intentionally do anything to hurt either one of them. ever. ever. >> interesting. it almost sounds like an admission the way he phrases it. i'm sorry to mags and paul paul. i would never intentionally do anything. on one hand, you can say he's a lawyer and that's how they speak but on the other hand he apologizes to his dead wife and dead son. the interesting part of that intentionally, that word, that kind of creates the possibility of a down charge. so that when there jury is ultimately given the case, the defense can argue that your honor, in addition to intentional murder, maybe there's a reckless murder. the judge will say where is the evidence of that? he just created the basis for that down charge. but other jurors may look at it that's an admission, that he didn't realize that he made. >> i thought that word leapt out at me at well, when he said i wouldn't intentionally do anything to hurt them. kind of opens that window, right? would you do something accidentally? would you have someone else do something perhaps? >> he opens up a whole game of possibilities. the interesting part about this case, in a murder case, there's no requirement that you prove motive. the prosecutor doesn't have to prove motive. but all of us as human beings, when we're presented with a case of a husband killing his wife and his own child, so horrific that the child's brains are across from the child's body, the jury wants a motive. so what the prosecution has done here as they said, there were financial crimes here, it was a perfect storm of things coming together. and so this defendant had no choice but to take the stand. >> martha: why? >> because all the evidence is there. unless he says i was lying intentionally, we know he lied when he said he wasn't at the scene. ten people have admitted that that was his voice. there's too many lies that have been corroborated and confirmed by other witnesses. so he had to take the stand. he then -- how do you -- when you have a monster, how do you personalize him? you put him on the stand. when they showed the 911 call that he makes to the police that night, he's sitting there teary-eyed. all they need is one juror out of 12 to have a reasonable doubt, a doubt for which they have a reason to say, you know, i don't think this guy did it. he was a drugged-out guy and committed financial crimes. financial crimes are not murder. however, the judge will instruct that with a murder charge, if you have prior financial crimes, that go to his credibility. so when he takes the stand, you are free to assume that if he lied about one thing, he lied about other things. this is fascinating. the prosecution has to prove why did he kill them? now, there's also evidence or reports that he was -- his wife was living separate from him at edisto beach. also that she had seen a matrimony lawyer. we know that he was trying to get her to come to moselle that night, a lot of this case will turn on cross examination. right now he's sympathetic. he was a victim in this case, accomplished what he needed to. give a good da a chance to go after him and a lot of grist her. >> martha: that's what i'd tell everyone at home. we're waiting for the other side. wore waiting for the d.a. to poke holes? what you've listened to all morning today. they had to clear out some of these cobb webs today. they tried to do that. they tried to do that by having him on the stand, admitting because there was a very big moment in this case when we heard from their close friend when they played that video of what was going on at the kennel and looking at a dog and you hear a voice in the back. this friend of theirs, young friend, said that's the voice of murdaugh. that's his voice. then they had a big problem. then he was put at the scene of the murder right around the time of the murder. so today he had to admit in front of the jury, i lied when i said i wasn't there. yes, that's my voice. number 2. >> as my addiction evolved over time, i would get in these situations or circumstances where i would get paranoid thinking -- it could be anything that triggered it. might be a look that somebody gave me, a reaction or what a tangled web we weave. but once i told a lie, i told my family. i had to keep lying. >> martha: that's problematic. quick thought on that before we take a break here. >> you know, this is his excuse for everything now. i was taking drugs, i was oxycodone. i was addicted. paranoia is one of the established responses apparently studied responses to that kind of addiction. so it gives them an excuse for everything. a smart juror said wait a minute. if you lied about that, how do i know you're not lying about killing your wife and son? >> and when you were on drugs, do you remember this? do you remember that? all of those things are what lies ahead. >> and ergo i didn't intentionally. >> intentionally. i didn't intentionally hurt maggie or paul. we'll hear more about that coming up in this coverage. judge jeanine, thank you. we'll see you at 5:00. you're the expert by our side. meantime, a 16-year sentence has just been handed down for disgraced movie mogul harvey weinstein after a jury found him guilty of raping an italian actress? 2013. he's already in the middle of a 23-year sentence around similar charges. he was the biggest director, producer in hollywood. he hobnobbed with everybody. you can see him there with michael bloomberg, oprah. he's the man to say that i maintain that i am innocent. also, this story. keith moses, the suspect in a fatal florida shooting spree not cooperating, not speaking to the investigators and fighting with the detectives according to the sheriff here. this is an absolute tragic story that played out this morning. the victims include reporter dylan lions on the left-hand side of your screen. he was gunned down at a crime scene here in the united states. losing his life. 24 years old. engaged to be married. journalists put themselves in harms way all the time in ukraine. we saw that too close in our family here at fox. in war zones. we know these risks exist. but america is increasingly feeling like that in places, like a war zone. this is one of the latest examples. geraldo rivera is here. first to phil keating. hi, phil. >> good an, martha. according to the orange county sheriff, this 19-year-old multiple murder suspect was a known gang member with a long criminal history for things like gun charges, assault, grand theft and battery. so why was he not behind bars two days ago? why was he out on the street able to pull this off yesterday allegedly? that's because almost all of his crimes were committed when he was a juvenile. the central florida spectrum news reporter that was shot at killed at the scene of an earlier murder was doing his jobs. dylan lions was engaged to be married. the photographer was also shot and remained in critical condition. the sheriff says he has talked to detectives, this all started wednesday morning with a 38-year-old woman shot and killed in her car. the news crew responded, pulled up on the scene and were shot while in their news vehicle. another orlando news crew was also on the scene and they witnessed the entire thing. according to investigators, this is the killer. 19-year-old keith moses that is facing several felonies, including three counts of likely first degree murder. he's first court appearance this afternoon was waived. the judge denied giving him any bond. the sheriff says moses went to a nearby house, shooting a mother and her 9-year-old daughter, killing the little girl. deputies say all three crime scenes were seemingly random and unrelated, september for the one connection, the suspect. the state attorney for orlando explained why this guy was out on the street and not in jail. >> this individual's only adult offense was a possession of marriage, 4.6 grams of marijuana that my office did not charge. >> she elaborated by saying when it's that tiny quantity of marijuana, law enforcement doesn't even test. it so the prosecutor said they couldn't prove that it was marijuana and it was such a small amount to begin with. the sheriff says unless this suspect starts talking and explaining what exactly happened yesterday, we may never know the motive. martha? >> martha: thanks very much. phil keating with that, we bring in co host of "the five," geraldo rivera. geraldo, good to have you with us today. we're covering this story, the murdaugh case, which will be getting back underway momentarily and we'll take you live to that. this case broke my heart when i heard about it this morning, this young reporter doing his job. you've been in many war zones. you've taken a lot of risk. we do not expect florida to be a war zone or any other state in this country. but it appears sometimes it is these days. >> it's tragic, you have a -- i hate to use pejoratives but a real dirt bag a gang banger with a violent history. he had not been convicted. most of his crimes committed allegedly when he was a juvenile. to do these seemingly random acts, these acts of hatred, this act of violence, hate, fatal violence, taking the life of the news men and we relate to the kid, 24 years old. they're part of our family. it really does tell the tale of the risk that comes with the territory. to have his life snuffed out, to have his camera man wounded and -- why did it happen? why was it that this 19-year-old, armed to the teeth with this glock, why did he kill the news kid? why did he attempt to kill his associate? go back a couple of hours. in the morning, he allegedly kill as woman in her home. goes into another home and kills another woman and her 9-year-old, this is another mass murderer. what is motivating this child to be the devil, to take these lives, seemingly at random. what is the motive other than hate, other than frustration and whatever it is? i don't care what stresses he was under. what i care about is that he wiped out half the neighborhood. martha, over 80 mass killings in this country so far this year. it is a number that is intolerable. this is so frustrating to come in day after day and hear this one particularly hideous but not that dissimilar to so many others. >> martha: i have to tell you, i was watching some coverage on another network this morning. i was struck. they all shook their heads and they said, you know, just goes to show you it can happen anywhere. when you really look at this thing, it always comes back to the gun. i'm thinking, it comes back to this shooter. you raised the right questions. whied? what is the going on here? if he's in a gang, he has had a number of juvenile offenses, what are -- what is happening? are you going back on the street? why are we not taking him in to custody, to a center where he the get off the street and turn his life around or just saying, you're young, so we can't hold you. go back to where you came from. it happens again and again and again and nothing happens because he's under 18. we see a lot of young people killing people these day. we know the statistics. so we have to have a better solution. most of the people that they kill are other young people in their neighborhoods, in new york, chicago, philadelphia. you covered this extensively. heart breaking stories of children losing their lives. we're doing something very wrong here. >> it starts with the dysfunctional family. i bet you there's no dad in that house. bottom dollar, this kid has some frustration related to a drug dealing street gang. heavily armed to the teeth. whatever the frustration, rage that is inside him boils over. anybody could have been consumed by it. the frustration i have -- more than frustration, march that i am angry. it simmers in me. i say what the hell is this that we can have over 80 mass killings? what is it? i want to know. yet i do know that because you have -- you can't excuse the gun because you have it and you're going to use it and you're going to use it in a random fashion and if you're downstream it from, you're going to get it. >> martha: this gang member put up plenty of red flags and had legal access, it appeared. stick around, if you would. we're going back to the murdaugh case. he's back on the stand. alec murdaugh accused of killing his wife and his son. let's watch. >> all this time later, this is the first time you've ever said that. >> yes, sir. you'd agree with me that for years you were stealing money from clients. >> yes, sir, i agree with that. >> and that you were stealing from you law firm. >> yes, sir, i agree with that. >> and that had been going on since at least 2010. >> i'm not sure the exact date but it's been going on a long time. >> what's your guest of the date? >> i don't take a dispute with 2010. i just don't know for sure. >> you're sure about a lot of things but you don't know that, is that correct? >> i'm fine with that date, mr. waters. i don't have any reason to dispute it. i'm not certain of it. >> all right. let's just keep on things that we may be able to agree about and let's talk first about your family's legacy here in the legal profession. okay? >> talk about anything you to. >> good. >> tell me about your great grandfather. was he the solicitor for the very circuit that we're in? >> yes, sir. >> what was his name? >> randolph murdaugh sr. >> what did he go by? do you know? >> randolph. >> randolph? did you ever get to know him or did he pass before -- >> no, sir, he got killed in 1940. >> how long was he solicitor? >> 20 years. >> 20 years. >> yes, sir. >> and then your grandfather, who was that? >> randolph murdaugh jr. >> what did he go by? >> buster. that's who buster is named after, my grandfather. >> was he solicitor? >> yes, he was the solicitor for 46 years. from 1940 he took over when my great granddaddy got killed and he served until 1996. he was the longest serving prosecutor in the country. >> and you now him well. he was you remember grandfather. >> i knew him extremely well. loved him dearly. >>' idolized him. >> yes. >> he was the prosecutor for all that time as correct? >> yes, sir. >> and then your father, mr. randolph be, he became solicitor not long after that, is that corrected? >> when my grandfather retired because you weren't allowed to be solicitor after age 72, my dad took over, filled his unexpired term and he ran. >> and he became the chief prosecutor for this time as well? >> yes, sir. >> how long was he solicitor? >> 1986 until 2006.2006. >> yes, sir. >> i worked a case with him about a guy that killed a trooper. >> a fine, fine, fine man. >> yes, he was. >> excellent lawyer. >> he was. and he was an excellent right? >> yes, sir. >> that's a big part of your family legacy and your heritage, so engrained around here is that history of being the chief prosecutor and being part of the -- a central part of the legal community. is that correct? would you agree with that? >> that my family has been a central part of the legal community? yes, i agree with that. >> and the chief prosecutor for this area since 1910, i think? up until 2006? >> 1920. >> 1920. >> 2006. 1910 is when my great grandfather started the law firm. >> so 1920 to 2006, correct? >> that's correct. >> and unbroken chain of being the chief prosecutor correct? >> that's correct. >> and then you went to law school as well, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> when did you graduate from law school? >> 1994. >> 1994. did you ever become a full time solicitor? >> no, sir. >> you say you went into private practice? >> yes, sir. 1994. >> and went to the former law firm that no longist exists because of your activities. >> i started -- >> answer my question first, please. >> what was your question? >> my question is you started with moss and coon. answer that one. >> yes, that's correct. >> and then you wendt to the law firm that started in 19 but doesn't exist anymore because of your activities. is that correct? >> that's correct. >> and as part of that, of your practice, you were a trial lawyer, correct? >> that's correct. >> successful trial lawyer. >> i don't know about your adjective, but i was -- i guess so, yes, sir. >> did you make millions of dollars in legal fees? >> yes, sir. >> but you won't tell the jury that that's successful? >> if that's the criteria, i was successful. >> you won cases. >> settled cases? >> yes. >> heard your former law partner say that you were a successful lawyer? >> i did hear some of them say that. >> i think you even became president of the trial lawyer avenatti sosation. >> that's correct. >> when was that? >> i'm not sure the exact year. it would have been in the 2015 range, 2014, 15, 16. somewhere in there. >> in that role you were kind of the president of the association of people that do trial plaintiffs work, right? >> yes, sir. >> did jury trials, correct? >> well, that -- >> that's part of it, right? >> yes, sir, that's part of it. >> sitting down, looking jurors in the eyes and giving the closing is that right? >> yes. >> and what kind of cases did you normally do? just generally, what subject matter? >> i did all kinds of cases. i did cases that -- i mean, i handled very big cases. you know, i had a lot of cases where, you know, somebody -- the cable company was billing them $20 more than they should have been. i handled everything from that to the big cases and everything in between. >> so the big cases. tell me about those. those were typically plaintiffs work? all plaintiff's work, correct? for your big cases? >> yes. >> okay. plaintiffs work is where -- there would be, say, for example automobile or truck accidents? correct? >> every big case i ever had was automobile -- i mean, no, sir. not all of them were automobile wrecks. >> were many of them? >> sure. >> and if they -- let's say your plaintiff collided with a ups truck or tractor trailer or something like that, you've had cases like that, correct? >> i have. >> and they led to big recoveries. >> the ups case that i >> yes, sir. >> all right. and as a part of that, developing those types of cases, you were involved in investigating the facts of the case, >> yes. >> all right. you were involved in gathering less say telemetry data from automobiles, correct? >> telemetry data like you presented in this courtroom this week? >> yeah. you never did that? >> i've never had a case specifically where the type data that ya'll have presented in this case that i've used. i've had data from automobiles. i've had on star data, data from the black box. telemetry data? i don't believe i've had one of those. >> but on star and black box data, correct? >> moore so the black box event reporter. mean times in a wreck, the event reporter will tell you things leading up to the wreck. >> sure. >> i've been in numerous cases where those were involved. >> and you've had cases where cell phone evidence was relevant to your case? >> sure. >> people's call logs were relevant to your case? >> i have had those. >> cell tower locations was relevant to your case? >> yes. >> computer evidence was relevant to your case? >> i'm sure i have, yes. >> when did you start with the law firm? >> august -- september of 1998. >> all right. you've been doing essentially that kind of work more or less up until september of 2021, correct? >> that's correct. >> to the point where you rose to be the president of the trail lawyer's association? >> i was the president of the trail lawyer's association around 2015 as we discussed. >> can we agree now on successful? >> by those criteria, i was successful, certainly. we talked about a lot of my flays here today, too. do i feel like i was successful? no, sir, not sitting here today, i don't. if you want to use that term and on those criteria, i don't have any problem with you saying at that time it looks like i was suc successful. >> do you think people viewed use as a successful lawyer? >> i'm sure a lot of people did. >> do you think people viewed your family as prominent. >> a lot of people did, yes, sir. >> did you think a lot of people viewed you and your family as prominent in the legal community here? >> i never thought of myself as prominent. >> i asked you if you thought people viewed you that way. let me ask this. >> at the time did i think people viewed me that way? >> yeah, prior to everything happening. >> i don't think people viewed me as prominent, no, sir. a big shot? no, sir, i don't think that. >> what about your family? >> my family thought that we were big shots? >> your family was prominent in this community. >> prominent? as in -- >> it's not a hard question. >> i'm just not sure -- i think my family was very well-thought of. i think my family was respected. i think my family helped a lot of people. >> i'm not challenging you on that. i'm trying to get you to agree with a basic fact. >> that my family helped a lot of people -- >> prominent. >> if that's what you mean by that, yes, sir. >> and your family had a long association with law enforcement. >> yes, sir. >> and you had a long association with law enforcement. >>. >> yes. >> yes. okay. >> by association, i assume you're talking about friendships? >> yes. not only just friendships and professional as well, correct? >> as a prosecutor? >> professional associations with law enforcement. >> as a prosecutor or a civil attorney? >> let's talk about civil. did you have associations with them in civil cases? >> sure. as we discussed, a lot of cases that i handled were wreck cases or might be a train wreck or tractor trailer. a lot of local enforcement involved, yeah, dealt with a lot of enforcements in the civil practice. >> and then you mentioned that you were a prosecutor as well, correct? >> i was a volunteer assistant solicitor. >> did you or your family or you law firm ever have events or parties or social affairs in which the law enforcement community in this area was invited? >> sure. the law firm itself didn't really sponsor things like that. but there would be occasions where one of us in the law firm and certainly we all had a lot of friends in law enforcement. they were always invited. >> okay. and it's a simple point. you had a lot of friends in law enforcement. your family and you had a long association with the law enforcement community in this circuit. is that correct? >> association being friendships and working relationships, absolutely. >> okay. let's talk about being a prosecutor. when did you become an assistant solicitor? >> i believe i became an assistant solicitor when i moved from beaufort to hampton. that would have been september -- sometime around september 1998. might have been a little after that. >> did you get a badge when you became an assistant solicitor? >> at some point i did, yes, sir. >> who gave you that badge? >> my father. >> mr. randolph? >> yes, sir. >> and over the years did you prosecute criminal cases much as what's going on here today? >> yes, sir, at times i did. >> and -- >> i believe prosecuted from 1998 to 2001, i believe that i -- >> keep going. i'm sorry. >> 2021. 2021. from 1998 to 2021, i believe i was involved in five jury -- i believe there were five trials. >> five trials? >> the best that i can remember. all with my dad. that was the purpose of me being an assistant solicitor, spending time with him. doing things with him. >> five jury trials over all that time but you had a badge that entire time, is that correct? >> i had a badge for a big part of that time. >> you had two badges, right? >> i had one badge. when my granddad became an
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