0 this is real. >> katie, speaker boehner, that is the leverage he has on the debt ceiling to try to make sure the united states could live more within its means, a good message for the republicans. what do you think of that? >> it is. i want to point out president obama talks for the first time in history defaulting our debt. the was the first president in our history that saw our credit rating downgraded and voted against the debt increase in 2006. when speaker boehner says we need negotiations for what we get in return for increasing the debt ceiling, by the way, 58% of americans according to a new fox news poll say if they were voting on it they wouldn't increase the debt ceiling. for president obama to say we're not going to meet our obligations, republicans are threatening to breach the debt ceiling, they're not threatening that. president obama is the one calling speaker boehner saying, i'm not going to negotiate. >> the change on boehner's part, he didn't mention the debt ceiling. his leverage on the continuing resolution. that 58%, i understand why people would react to that poll question. if they knew that would precipitate a huge market crash, endless amount of world economic disruption i don't think they'd be willing -- eric seems to think we can get through this and won't have a debt ceiling problem and will explain his numbers in a second. the fact of the matter is we have never allowed the full faith credit of the united states to go under. these few republicans, ignoramuses in the house are doing it to us and it's not funny. >> the good news is we will still not default on a debt. $225 billion a month, $24 billion to service the debt, once you do that, you will never ever default on your debt. that's automatic. the first $24 billion goes right to debt service. it's in the constitution. we will never default. then military gets paid and social security checks go out and medicare and medicaid gets paid. >> what about air tr-traffic controllers and border security. >> eventually, they'll all get paid, bob. >> when the deal is cut -- when these bozos back in these buildings get a deal together. >> you can't let that happen after the debt ceiling limit. >> they're not going to let that happen. president obama is not going to let the united states default. john boehner knows that. he's very very savvy at this. he's a much better politician as far as navigating this terrain than president obama is. he knows he has the president in the corner and knows he's feeling heat from democrats. absolutely. boehner has always known this would come. >> who's in the corner? republicans. look at these polls consistent. republicans are taking the heat on this close down and it is going to continue to be that way and people will feel it more and more everyday. republicans are playing with fire. >> tell me about some of the things you have seen from the house side. they have passed eight separate funding bills including things that would fund the parks and national institute of health and president obama today said that he is not going to deal on any of those. he would veto anything that would fund individual programs. >> right. it seems like what the media and senate is saying, they're offering up ideas when it's the house that passed more than a dozen bills to the senate and the senate refused to acknowledge their existence and have them dead on arrival and president obama has offered to veto every single one and they're smaller continuing resolution bills. today, president obama said in his speech he was willing to pass a smaller continuing resolution. when it comes to the actual legislation passed through the house he's not willing to move on it. >> enlighten me. has the house done anything on the labor bill or peace corps? >> why should they? >> they prioritize. one of the main things they asked for, number one thing, i think they should use this as their leverage because it is the most important thing, the funding of the veterans administration. john boehner has offered that. harry reid, senator reid, at president obama's direction, has refused to bring that up for a vote. i think when the veterans don't get their checks, that's when americans get edgy. >> do you think doing government by piecemeal is anything more than a game? >> i think it's more than a game. it's serious. >> by the republicans. let's set a precedent. let's decide to fund the government in pieces. >> like they used to. no. like they used to. when was the last time the senate passed a budget? >> last year. >> it took them almost four years. >> i agree with you. it took a long time. they have been asked -- dana said to me earlier when we were talking about this i am wrong about this but i am not. the democrats and estimate have had a budget. republicans had a budget. the republicans refused for a year to sit down- >> the reason why, i was explaining, democrats were demanding the debt ceiling be automatically raised in any sort of deal. republicans said, no, we're not going to agree to that. we think we should live more within our means and there are more spending cuts to be made. before we run out of time, we have to show this clip from last night. the whole reason we're talking about this in the first place, we haven't gotten to it is obamacare. it's been a week since the website has been up. it's not going swimmingly. u "usa today" called it incompetent. secretary of health and human services, kathleen sebelius did something brave last night and went on the jon stewart show. she got quite a grilling. >> how many have signed up thus far? >> fully enrolled. i can't tell you because i don't know. i can tell you we've had not only lots of web hits, hundreds of thousands of accounts created. >> hundreds of thousands of people have signed up. >> of accounts created. >> okay. there was not only that issue, the glitches, she also had to admit if you go on the website and it doesn't work, it's okay because then you can just pay a fine at the end of the year. listen to this. >> i would feel like you were favor i favoring big busy because they lobbied you to delay it because they didn't want to do it this year but you're not allowing individuals that same courtesy. >> well, again, big businesses are already in the health market. >> why is it that individuals, though, couldn't say they didn't want to do it just for a year. >> they can. they pay a fine. they pay a fine at the end of the year. but they don't have to -- they can say, i don't want to do it. >> basically what he's saying is big busy got a break from the obama administration but individuals can't get the same deal. >> aside from the fact that's ridiculous, pay a fine and don't want to do obamacare, young and healthy won't do it. one of two reasons they don't know. president obama didn't know and kathleen sebelius didn't know. one is the number is so low it's embarrassing for them. they didn't realize the turnout wasn't good. they keep saying the glitches are because so many people want it. maybe it's not or maybe because the system is so incompetent, four almost five years to get this together and failing on every leg it's standing on, they're worried with one-sixth of the economy relying on this, almost $3 trillion a year, they're worried the whole thing could collapse on itself. >> think about the millions of dollars they had to get this thing up and running in taxpayer money. this has been a fiasco. >> amazing to hear jon stewart sound like john boehner. that's his whole point. watching sebelius be the human shield for the white house, rolling her out there. she has no leg to stand on. she's basically telling the american public. you have all the information you enter. we get your data. you may log-on, you may not. you may be rejected from health care, you may not. you may get to pay more in premiums, probably. if not, guess what, you get to pay more in taxes. that is their message? >> they were waiting for the individual states to decide whether they would get in the system or not. leaving that aside, assuming you are right, this thing will fall apart, the structure of this think is terrible, can't possibly do it, let it fall apart. it gives you a campaign issue and everything you want. you don't have to sit here and try to mess with the full faith and credit of the united states government when it's something you think you will win anyway. >> they could have done it with just one exchange. could have had one free market and they wouldn't be in the pickle they're in. >> have one single payer i want. >> that's the argument, right, jo jon stewart from the left is coming at it basically saying you guys didn't go far enough, having to do the shenanigans with employer mandate and individual mandate and didn't go to single payer program you should have when you had the opportunity. >> the system being a failure and website fiasco puts people already frustrated not having insurance to be even more insurance. when they go to that website and sit there hours for a day trying to get their health insurance they will quit and not come back and the government will have a lot of explaining. >> you're right. they didn't have insurance before, why? because the insurance companies won't insure them. they're big risks. you never blame the insurance companies. >> or, bob, the young people who didn't want to enroll and get health insurance in the first place. they're not going to sit on the obamacare website. >> guess who the new insurance company in this country will be? >> u.s. government. >> u.s. government. >> i wish it were. >> i wish it were a single paye payer. >> no one's talking about this. an october 17th article in the "new york times" by robert parr, u.s. set to sponsor health exchanges. there is going to be a health exchange barry care that will be sponsored by the government that will run all the other insurers out of busy. that's the end game. >> good. run them out of busy. fine with me. >> that's very scary. >> that was a rip roaring a block. >> coming up, charles krauthammer has advice for the president regarding negotiations. >> and then the washington redskins, we'll tell you what it is when we return in just a moment. if you've got it, you know how hard it can be to breathe and man, you know how that feels. copd includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that helps open my obstructed airways for a full 24 hours. you know, spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. stop taking spiriva and seek immediate medical help if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, vision changes or eye pain, or problems passing urine. other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. does breathing with copd weigh you down? 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