0 perhaps that's their reasoning. i'm more distrustful of it so i doubt it. >> but think about all of these scandals. whether eric bringing up benghazi, you bringing up syria. they're already in the rearview mirror. like everything else, a shelf like of an obama scandal is less than an open container. >> what is the scandal about syria? >> the way reacted. his scandals have less of a shelf life than an open con tarn of mayo. let me finish my sentence. >> i'm sorry. >> he doesn't throw people under the bus, he just drives right over them. >> he tries to drive over them, realizes the american people don't want the bus driven that way, then walks it back. and goes, you know, we were actually thinking about doing that anyway. >> is that a red line metaphor? >> bob, what in the world makes you think you can trust anything rohani says? he doesn't run the country. you know who runs the country. >> that's not the point. the point is you have to sit there and have a conversation. doesn't hurt. may not help. >> but you've got to act while you talk. that's what the iranians do. they act and they talk while they're negotiating. they're building things. we just talk. that's the problem. >> if they're building them anyway -- >> the talking allows them to build. >> does the russian president corps consider syria a scandal, the way -- >> i hadn't heard it described that way before. you could describe the way the president's backed into this sort of almost fortunate diplomatic -- >> how about incompetence? can we call it incompetence extraordinaire? >> that's your word, not mine. he struggled week to week on this and said one week, you know, we're not going to go to congress, we're going to do this on our own. then he pulled back and said, let's go to congress. they didn't have the votes. they said, no, let's not go to congress. look, if he can get this breakthrough with the russians on syria without ever firing a shot, that's not necessarily a bad thing. >> when bush does something, it's bafoonery. when obama does it, it's a struggle. >> you remember last week, the horrible shooting in washington, d.c. at the navy yard that resulted in 12 people being killed. take a look at president obama last night in washington. >> i do not accept that we cannot find a commonsense way to preserve our traditions, including our basic second amendment freedoms and the rights of law-abiding gun owners. while at the same time reducing the gun violence that unleashes so much mayhem on a regular basis. and it may not happen tomorrow and it may not happen next week. it may not happen next month. but it will happen. >> okay, just practical reality, ed, how is it going to happen? >> that's what's significant. he's almost reluctantly saying, look i don't know if it's next week, next month. that's a lot different after newtown when it was a call to action. he said, we've got to do it, we're going to do it. this is a president who has hit brick wall after brick wall on these issues and is confronting a new reality which is he's almost done with his first year of his second term with basically no domestic achievements. didn't get a grand bargain budget deal. these are facts. he's trying to turn it around quickly. come next year he's got no political capital. >> while we got you here, immigration, the assumption that immigration is dead through 2014? >> there's a hope signed the white house after some of these primary deadlines in early 2014 are done, meaning a republican finds out he or she doesn't have a conservative primary opponent, that after that closes, they might actually cut a deal on immigration, because they won't fear, you know, a primary challenge from the right. but i think that's a little too optimistic. if there's anything -- >> one more, can i ask a second follow-up question? >> sure, please. >> is it on the things we were -- >> i was curious about the answer. >> you're like a commercial break question. >> wayne la pierre went on one of those shows and said, gee, if we all had gun, we'd all be fine. what obama is calling for here is an expanded background check. why do they not think that's possible to get through? any creatant would understand the importance of that. >> it's important to do. on the other hand, the shooter in this case, there were background checks done and they didn't find a problem. and so it proves there's still cracks in the system unfortunately. so unless you come up with some fool proof background check, it's still a hard case on capitol hill because of the nra. >> well, because if you had a background check -- >> doesn't mean you couldn't fight for it. >> anybody who goes into a mental institution should be checked. >> this is beckle filibustering because he doesn't want to get to obama care. >> we are going to get to obama care. >> can i just comment on guns? i don't know if that was the right place to talk about guns. because if you -- could have gotten maybe speck aboific about he meant. who is he compromising with? the left and the far left? there's no other -- there's no one else he's talking to about guns. if he would, he would talk about mental health. it's not really about rounding up guns. it's about looking at the people who have guns. i don't know. gun free zones create a fair ground of sitting ducks. >> somebody who was at a mental -- in a mental institution, should they have guns? you ask them. >> well, they can't. weem done this time and time. >> the law's in place lshgs bob. >> if you've been admitted into a mental institution -- >> he worse. >> forcibly admitted against your will, then you cannot get a gun. he was not, bob, ever. >> i'm saying anybody -- >> that's what happens, it become, a strongman argument where there's nothing really to fight against. he's not arguing against anybody. and he's not compromising with anybody on anything, including obama care. let's take a look at some of the things president obama said about obama care in the past. >> we will keep this promise. to the american people. if you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. this is not some government takeover. if you like your doctor, you can keep seeing your doctor. >> in "the new york times" today, on the front page, it was like a revelation. >> i cannot believe you took him out of context like that. and you took it and you edited it -- you made it look like he was talking about your doctor when he was talking about dr. pepper. he was arguing in defense of removing dr. pepper from schools and you made it tasound like he was talking about mds. >> the story said for most people who are poor in lower, middle class, they were going to get their monthly premiums were going to go down and the people who are wealthier who can afford it are going to be able to keep their own doctors. now we've got obama care proving you can lower your monthly payments and you will be able to go to -- >> you just made a comment that is factually inaccurate. >> what's that? >> no premiums have gone down. they've gone up. >> if you read that story -- >> they've risen faster than they were rising prior to obama coming on. >> but they have not gone down. you're forecasting the future. >> maybe in 3020. >> maybe. >> from the communications perspective when you talk to the white house, are they concerned that this is -- that obama care continues to be like lead weights around their ankles? october 1st is when the exchanges supposedly open. >> it's a struggle for them. they haven't been able to communicate this effectively with the american people. you see polls turning against the president's health care law. it's been getting worse. what they're hoping inside the white house is they'll get past the speed bumps and in the end they're going to save the law and then once these benefits start kicking in, it's going to be harder and harder for republicans on the hill to fight it but they haven't gotten to that yet. >> ted cruz is not a speed bump, he's a big hole in the ground. >> kimberly, do you want to comment on obama care? >> after bob had his little truth serum sips during the show. >> you want to move on? >> i think we should move on. >> just a point, saying obama care is cheaper is like saying a bus fare is cheaper than a plane fare. you can travel across country but it will take you a week and you'll be sitting next to richard greieco. >> and there's no clean bathroom. >> this reveals the hypocrisy of the left. >> at least they'll get there. >> yeah, maybe. >> if they survive. there's only one route. >> well, you've got to keep up with the analogies on the five. that is one of our specialties. lois learner. remember her? she was at the irs. i've got a theory. she announced today she's going to retire. after i think five or six months of getting paid while on leave, had a great summer vacation. now she's going to retire with no problems whatsoever. she pled the fifth. i think this is what we should -- this is my new theory on this, ed. i don't need any more investigation. we know she was a political favorite. she went to the irs because of her connections. she targeted the tea party in particular at the request of the political appointees at the white house. now we're just left with pretty much nothing. >> there's never been the proof that the white house actually directed it. >> do you think there ever will be? >> once lois learner's gone. >> no, because now she's been silenced. they gave her essentially cement boots in the form of retirement so we're not going to hear from her. that's their play. they've been able to use that successfully. not just here but in other places where they've had problems or, quote, scandals in the administration. the american people deserve the answers. he should be forth right. >> she wanted to spend more time with her family on a bus. >> i think you can call her again. >> yes, you could and they should be. >> and she'd probably take the fifth again. i also like -- it's a little bit off topic. general hamm, i want to talk benghazi. general hamm again and again, we talked about it, i called five different phone numbers for this guy. >> you're stalking him. >> why don't they call -- one of the panelists call general hamm to testify and tell the american people -- >> some have tried. >> what we need to see -- >> where is he? >> yes, where is he? we can't find him. >> he didn't get back to us. >> where's hamm? >> he's on a bus. >> quick comment about obama care since i haven't yet -- >> yes, you did. >> on the irs scandal. i don't think it came from the white house. i'm sure glad somebody thought of it. this is politics. it's a tough business. >> glad someone targeted the tea party? >> yes, indeed. >> this is after you said it was the biggest scandal? bob, do you realize we have all these clips for weeks of you saying this was the biggest problem? >> it's a terrible problem. >> now you're happy? >> you realize that? >> of course i realize that. >> now it's not wrong? >> of course it's wrong. it's terrible. it's wrong. >> now you're saying it's a good idea? >> i'm saying if i were sitting there, i would have done it. >> guy, the bus is leaving. >> okay, the bus has run other me. ed, aren't you glad you came? >> i'm getting on the bus. >> directly ahead on the five over the weekend, a massacre of at least 60 people in kenya and attacked a christian church in pakistan. new developments on both those stories when we come back.