0 >> he is active duty marine. >> and where's that at? >> currently stationed in florida. >> and your other son, where's he at? >> he's in college in north dakota. >> are they going to be home for the holidays? >> yes, they will. >> is your mother in the courtroom? >> yes. >> and your sister? >> no, she's not. >> but is your brother in the courtroom? >> yes, he is. >> besides your brother and your mother, your father is deceased? >> yes. >> do you have any other siblings? >> i have another sister and a brother. >> do you know what their ages are? >> my sister, my oldest sister is in her 50's. and my other brother is in his 50's, also. >> what do they do for a living? >> my sister works for a medical device company. my oldest brother works for a parking company and my other brother works for retail. >> going back to when you're a youngster, where did you go to elementary school? >> immaculate conception catholic school. >> where is that located? >> columbia heights, minnesota. >> and did you live in that neighborhood? >> yes, i did. >> while you were at elementary school, while you were going to that school, did you have a police officer visit your school? >> yes. >> and do you actually know his name today? >> yes, it's officer michael mcgee. >> where was he a police officer at? >> columbia heights police department. >> why was he at your school? >> he was doing bicycle safety for grade school kids. >> and you remembered his name, anything else that was significant about him that caused you to do something in your life? >> he was, on that occasion, he really influenced me as a youngster that the police are good people and i wanted to be something like that some day. >> and because of that, because of him being at your school, did you start out doing that? >> yes. >> and what was your first job or volunteer work as a -- some type of a law enforcement officer student, school cop? >> first thing i did was in junior high was a school patrol officer, if that counts. >> yes, it does count. what did the school patrol officer do back then? >> it was junior high so we helped the younger grade school aged children get across the street. >> and did you continue to do that throughout junior high? >> yes, sixth, seventh and eighth grade. >> and after getting into high school, what did you do? >> fridley police department came to my high school and had a booth set up for the fridley police explorers. >> did you join the explorers? >> yes, i did. >> why did you join the explorers? what is an explorer? >> it's part of the boy scouts of america. it's an area where you can have career enhancement or you can learn about different jobs like law enforcement or firefighting, things of that nature. >> and were you an explorer throughout your high school days? >> yes, i was. >> i can't remember if i asked what high school you went to. >> the high school in fridley. >> with respect to criminal justice and law enforcement, while you were in high school, besides being an explorer, did you do anything else? >> i had jobs. >> what was your job? >> my first job was at a gas station. >> what did you do there? >> clerk/cashier. >> did you continue that job in high school? >> yes, and into college. >> ok, so your next visit was college. >> yes. >> where did you go to college? >> st. mary's college in winona, minnesota. >> and that's about, what, 70 miles from here? 80? >> yeah, down towards la crosse. >> what was your major at st. mary's? >> criminal justice and sociology with an emphasis on elderly studies or geriatric sociology. i have an interest in serving the older community and understanding their needs and wants. >> did you graduate from st. mary's? >> yes, i did. >> was that a three-year program? >> four-year program, i finished it in 3 1/2 because i had an internship in the summer. >> where did you internship? >> columbia heights police department. >> columbia heights police department? >> yes. >> ok, what did you do at the columbia heights police department? >> i was assigned to an officer who was in their community oriented policing program. >> were you also -- did you also continue your explorer career while in college? >> i stopped being an explorer after my freshman year and then i role played at the annual conference. >> what does that mean? >> every year, the explorer program has an annual conference at breezy point resort and they needed role players. and they like to use students or people that were in law enforcement. >> so you graduated from st. mary's. >> yes. >> and you -- what did you do after that? >> after that, i would have gone to skills in the summer of 1994? >> ok. what do you mean by that? >> i went to skills. >> what does that mean? >> i went to the police certification program so i would get hired. >> where was that at? >> that was at the technical college. >> in alexandria, minnesota? >> correct. >> 120 miles? >> yeah. >> and did you stay there while you were being educated? >> yes. >> what kind of a program was that? how long was it? >> it was 10 or 12 weeks. >> is that where you obtained your skills to apply as a police officer? >> yes, it was a hands-on training. i had the college education, the book knowledge, and then i went there for my skills program or my hands-on part to get my license. >> after this program, did you go out and try your job in law enforcement? >> yes, i did. >> and were you successful at first? >> yes. >> did you have a job at anoka? >> i worked at the metro regional treatment center because i graduated in january, or i'm sorry, in december, i couldn't go to skills until the next summer, so i had to get -- i got a job. >> all right. but you worked skills, you were in alexandria, correct? >> yes. >> and the job you got was at anoka state hospital? >> yes. >> that was between your skills -- >> i got hired there in february and i worked for a calendar year but the anoka city police department would allow their students to or their employees, i'm sorry, to go to skills and still have a job on weekends or when they would get back before they got hired as a law enforcement officer. >> so at anoka state hospital, what did you do? >> i was a security officer. >> and anoka state hospital is for -- is basically a detox center now, is that right? >> now, it had a detox. it had a countywide detox, and a detox program. it also had drug and alcohol abuse rehabilitation and mental illness. >> and what did you do there? you were in security? >> yes. >> deal with the folks that are staying there, the residents? >> yes. >> were you successful in that? >> yes. >> after working there, where did you go next? >> i left there and got hired at the city of brooklyn center. >> and what year were you hired at the brooklyn center police department? >> 1995. >> and when were you sworn in? >> february 27th. >> of 1995? >> correct. >> who was at your swear-in? >> my mother and my father. >> so after you're sworn in, you started working as a brooklyn center police officer? >> yes. >> what year was that again? >> 1995. >> so that would be in my math, 26 years before you resigned? is that a fair statement? >> yes. >> when you worked as a police officer at brooklyn center throughout those 26 years, did you remain a patrol officer all during that time? >> i did. >> why was that? why didn't you attempt to go like the other officers we heard from? >> i liked my work. i enjoyed working with the community, i didn't want to be in an administrative role. >> did you also even though you were a patrol officer, you did take part in other programs, for example, the f.p.o. program, right? >> yes, i did. >> that's a field train sng>> yes, i was a field training officer for many years. >> how many years? >> i don't have an exact number, 10 to 15. >> and we've learned in this court -- in this case, what a field training officer does. but very briefly, what did you do? >> i would get probationers in different stages of their training, either in their first phase, second phase, third phase or final phase. usually, the primary phase or the first phase and the final phase were always with the same f.t.o.'s and then others would train the other two stages. >> why did you continue to do that for so many years? >> i felt that i had knowledge and mentorship that i could help young officers develop into somebody i would want to work with and my partners would want to work with. >> there are other programs that you volunteered for or joined while you were a police officer, is that correct? >> yes. >> and after you became a police officer, what was the first program that you joined or volunteered? >> i became an explorer advisor for explorer post. >> and what's an explorer post? is that the younger people? >> yes, the program through the boy scouts of america. >> and in that program, they teach them about policing, is that right? >> yes. >> and after that explorers program that you joined, what else did you do as a police officer? >> i was on the domestic abuse response team. i was also crisis negotiator. >> stop at the domestic abuse program. how long were you on that? >> approximately? >> 10, 12 years, maybe more. maybe less. >> and what did that program entail? >> we would respond -- so officers would go out on domestic abuse situations or domestic calls and if there was a victim of a crime or an arrest made or not an arrest made, we would follow up the next day with the victims to see that they were getting the things they needed like domestic advocates, order for protections that they had questions and helping them and checking in with them through the court process. >> did you enjoy doing that? >> yes. >> why? >> sometimes, there were great successes and sometimes there were very sad failures. >> is there another program that you were involved with was a hostage program? >> i was a crisis negotiator for the parent umbrella of the emergency operations unit. >> what did you do in that? >> i was a crisis negotiator. >> what does that mean? >> we would go out on barricaded subject or go out with a swat team, easiest way to describe it, on warrants. we would respond to calls where there may be people in danger. >> and was your job to try to negotiate with the subject and get him to submit to being arrested? >> yes, he or she. >> was that your main job? >> no, i was always the patrol officer. >> i mean, as far as a hostage negotiator, that's what you did? >> yes, i was a crisis negotiator. >> and what other programs were you in? >> i was on the law enforcement memorial association honor guard. >> what is that? >> it's -- so the parent is the minnesota law enforcement memorial association. they do a lot of work to help survivors and their families make their way through the process of getting benefits after their officer is killed in the line of duty. i was on the honor guard. >> what did you do being on the honor guard? >> when i started in 1998, i was on the colors team for approximately a year or two and then i went to the casket team. >> what's the color team? >> the color team carries flags. >> and the casket team? >> we would carry the casket or the urn of the fallen officer and fold their flag. >> and would you be in contact, also, with the victim or the deceased family? >> sometimes with the family, a lot of times with the chief of police because i would have to hand -- i would have to give the folded flag to the police chief. >> this was in minnesota? >> yes. >> these were police officers killed in the line of duty? >> yes. >> or other law enforcement officers? >> 99% of it killed in the line of duty or some retiree funerals. >> any other programs you were involved in? >> i did a lot of crime prevention work for our police department and other presentations. >> crime prevention presentation? >> yes. >> what were those? >> i was assigned an apartment complex in the city, and i would meet with management and we would do some programming for their residents as far as personal safety, locking your car doors and taking valuables out of your car, regular safety in an apartment complex. and then i would do some other presentations on robbery preventions for banks in the city. >> by the way, when you were doing the carrying caskets for that program, were you aware of officers that were killed in the line of duty by making a traffic stop? >> yes, shawn patrick from mendota heights. >> move to strike, your honor. >> objection is overruled. i'll let the answer stand. >> during your 26 years as a police officer, did you ever receive any complaints for abusing your power? >> no. >> did you ever receive any complaints from the public? >> no. >> in training, did you attend all the training sessions required by the brooklyn center police department while you were there? >> yes. >> with respect to gun training, you attended all those, too, right? >> yes, i did. >> did you pay attention? >> yes, i did. >> with respect to that, in your approximation, i'm not asking for exact numbers, but with respect to the training, what would you say the amount of training was for for the firearm, for the gun and the amount of training for the taser? what would be the percentages there? >> for the firearms, probably 80%. we spent a lot more time on firearms than we did on taser. >> and tasers didn't come into being until years after you were a law enforcement officer, right? >> yes, i believe trainers in this courtroom had said 2002 or 2003. >> and you started as a law enforcement officer what year? >> 1995. >> with respect to tasers, did i say lasers? with respect to tasers, there's been evidence in the case that you had a taser seven, is that correct? >> yes. >> the evidence in that was that the taser seven had -- was shaped like a gun, fair statement? >> yes. >> and the taser seven had a dark black or at least a dark handle and a dark top? do you remember that? >> objection. >> i'm trying -->> the objection is overruled. you may answer. >> yes. >> the taser that you received, was it approximately a month before april 11th that you received this taser? do you remember? >> in the courtroom, i was told i received it on march 26th. >> ok, and also, while we're there, with respect to these tasers in testing them, the rule that we read said should test the electronics every day. is that right? >> yes. >> there's testimony that you didn't test yours a couple of days, is that right? >> yes, that's what i was told. >> and do you agree with that? that you didn't test it? >> i don't recall if i would have or wouldn't have. >> was that an important feature for law enforcement officers with new taser? >> no. >> never used them since they had them? >> correct. >> and while we're there, did you ever use a taser, use it by actually shooting it, in all of your years, career as law enforcement officer? >> i would take my taser out on rare occasions, but i don't believe i ever deployed it. >> ok, when you take your taser out, it's to deescalate what's going on, is that a fair statement? >> sometimes, sometimes prepare for what's behind the door. >> all right. the taser that was switched from you, did that go to one of your partners? that taser? >> my old taser? >> yes. >> i believe they were just put in storage at the police department. >> and those tasers were all yellow, right? handle, top, and whole thing was yellow. >> yes, except for the battery pack, i believe that was black and there was some markings on the side. >> i'm going to show you these tasers. show you this taser. >> objection, your honor. can we have a side bar? >> yes. >> you are watching the kim potter trial right now. she is in the middle of testifying on her own behalf. she is the final witness that the defense has called in the case of manslaughter. she faces up to 25 years or 30 years in prison for first degree and second degree manslaughter respectively. after the prosecution's case rested, they called a total of about 25 witnesses to the stand over six days of testimony. three character witnesses were called to testify for what's known as spark of life testimony. the mother, father and girlfriend of the deceased, daunte wright who you are looking at right now, that was the judge presiding over kim potter's manslaughter trial for the shooting death of daunte wright at a traffic stop. the prosecution went through the training kim potter received, how she was not justified to use force in this incident and how she was negligent in her actions. quick recap of the defense's case to this point, one day of testimony up until today, they had called a total of six witnesses to the stand. and they then called today a police psychologist who testified essentially that it was a lapse of what's known as a brain error that she meant to do something, her brain thought she was doing something, and yet, in a split second error, she instead drew her taser while meaning to draw her weapon. prosecution calls that junk science. and they were going back and forth in that expert testimony as to the credibility of such and what happens when a police officer incorporates training with an emergency situation and here we are now back to the kim potter trial where she is in the middle of testifying on her own behalf. >> one before the seven being all yellow? >> yes. >> and was that an x-26 taser? >> i believe it was an x-26p. >> p? so with respect to the tasers, there's been evidence about signing some forms and warnings. do you remember signing those forms? >> in our annual training, we would be handed a form to sign and i would sign it. >> and do you remember the warnings on them at all? >> not from those days, no. >> and with respect to weapons confusion, was there ever any training, actual training, about weapons confusion as you remember it? >> no. >> did you even know what weapons confusion was? >> yes. >> wait until i finish the question. before april 11th? >> it would be mentioned in training but it wasn't something we physically trained on. >> by that, you mean what? >> there was no training on weapons confusion. you wouldn't be set in a darkroom and told to grab which weapon. >> so i'll go out to april 11th. 2021, a sunday. and you surely remember that day. is that correct? >> yes. >> and you're an f.t.o. that day for officer lucky? >> yes, i was. >> and that day, what time did you go on duty? >> 6:00 a.m. >> and was lucky on duty at that time, too? >> yeah. >> and about -- what did you do during the morning? if you remember, just drive around police work? >> we just did police work. we would have checked the squad car if we wouldn't have had calls right away. >> on a sunday. >> it was a sunday. >> so approximately around 2:00, did you pull up in back of -- not you, officer lucky was driving the car, right, the squad? >> yes. >> and you were the f.t.o. where were you seated in the car? >> in the passenger's seat. >> and tell the jury what you remember about first seeing the white buick on that day at approximately 2:00 p.m. and talk slowly. >> officer lucky and i were driving south and we were talking about pursuit policies, doing some regular f.t.o. training. and he observed a vehicle in the turn lane with a blinker on inappropriately. >> and was that the white buick? >> yes. >> and did you have a conversation with him about that? >> yes. >> and what was that conversation? >> we discussed a little bit of suspicious activity. he noticed a pine tree or air freshener hanging from the rearview mirror and the tags were expired. >> and did he want -- did you stop that vehicle? >> officer lucky wanted to stop the vehicle, yes. >> and let me ask you sort of a hypothetical. if he had been working alone that day on sunday afternoon at 2:00, would you have stopped the vehicle? >> objection, irrelevant. >> i can't even finish the question, your honor. that's not fair. >> the objection is overruled. you may answer. >> my question was if you weren't with a field training officer that day, and you were on patrol, would you have stopped that vehicle? >> most likely not. >> why not? >> an air freshener to me is just an equipment violation and during the covid times, the high covid times, the department of motor vehicles was so offline that people weren't getting tags and we were advised not to try to enforce a lot of those things because the tags were just not in circulation. >> ok. but you did stop the vehicle, right? >> yes, part of field training is that my probationer would make numerous contacts with the public throughout the day. >> and what happened after the stop? if you remember, give -- go ahead. >> before officer lucky stopped the car, we ran the vehicle and confirmed that the registration was expired and that the registered owner had a petty misdemeanor type warrant for some kind of drug offense. >> that was the registered owner of the vehicle? >> yes. >> so after -- and you did that while you were still in the squad car? >> yes, it's part of the multitasking that a probationer has to do is run a vehicle license plate, call into dispatch and initiate their lights. >> ok, try to talk a little slower. i know you're probably nervous. but i'd like to get all of this in. all right? ok, so you stopped the vehicle? is that right? >> officer lucky initiates the traffic stop. >> and what happened after he did that? >> the vehicle stops kind of in an entrance to the church on 63rd, and he got on the p.a. and told the vehicle to pull ahead a short distance. >> was that because he's parked in the driveway of the -- >> yeah and i think there was a vehicle trying to come out, as i recall. >> ok. what happened next? >> officer lucky and i exited our marked squad car, officer lucky walked up to the driver's door and i stood at the right rear corner of the white buick. >> so he did get out of the car? >> most definitely. >> and why did you stand where you were standing? >> part of it was so i could see where officer lucky was and just provide cover to see what else was in the vehicle. >> in your experience of 26 years and being a patrol officer all those years, is stopping any vehicle at any time that you don't know, is that considered a dangerous situation? >> yes. >> why? >> sometimes there's guns in the car, sometimes there's uncooperative people. you don't know who you're stopping. >> yeah, because you don't know them, right? >> right. >> so while you were standing there in the rear of the vehicle, did you hear what officer lucky said? >> i could hear parts of the conversation. he didn't seem to be in any stress when he was asking questions. he took out his notepad and looks like he was writing down something that would end up being a name and date of birth. >> ok, after he did that, did you two go back to the squad car? >> yes. >> and at some point in time during this stop or right after it, did officer lucky do anything in connection with obtaining another squad car? >> yes, he called for a second car to come. >> what is that about? >> just be a back-up officer. the registered owner had a warrant of some nature. it wasn't a bad warrant, it was just a regular petty warrant which would still, you'd want a second officer or i guess in this case, a third officer. officer lucky and i are considered only one officer. >> why are you lucky just one officer? >> because he's in field training and he's a probationary employee. >> all right. so did the third officer, officer johnson arrive at some point in time? >> yes, sergeant johnson arrived. >> and was that before you looked up in the computer about this driver of the vehicle? or after? >> i don't know exactly when he arrived. i know officer lucky and i were doing -- officer lucky and were discussing running the name he was given through some various systems. >> ok. and did you do that? you and officer lucky? >> yes. >> was there any correction that you told him about during this time that he should put the name in one. >> because the driver didn't provide him with any government issued i.d., he would have had to verify some information to run him properly in our system through tritech so we run them sometimes through minimum d.b.s. with just a name, date of birth, it will give you a hit on various people with that same, either same name or common name. with a date of birth. >> so did you correct him on that? >> we were talking about it. i don't know if i corrected him on it. >> what happened that that? >> he would copy the driver's license number off the screen and then put it into our tritech system or cad and that would run them through the state for driver's license and warrants and other hits. >> did you find anything about the driver? >> the driver came back with a suspended driver's license, gross misdemeanor bench warrant for weapons and protection order. >> so gross misdemeanor for weapons ordinance, what went through your mind, if anything, when you read that? >> it would be concerning that there would be a weapon on the person or in the vehicle. >> why would that be? >> in my experience over 26 years, i have found guns in cars either by accident or by them just being sitting out in plain view. >> and what about a person with a weapons warrant? >> they're more likely to be carrying a weapon or have a weapon access to them. >> so what about the temporary -- was it a temporary restraining order that came up? was that it? >> i think they're called ex parte orders, temporary protection order until the parties either have a court hearing in front of a judge to make it a permanent order. >> and there would be a name of a female on that? >> yes, there was. >> and was there a female in the buick or in the automobile that was stopped? >> yes in the front passenger's seat. >> after you learned that, did officer lucky tell you something about drugs or marijuana? >> when he initially got back to the car, he told me there was obvious smell of marijuana and some seedlings or shake residue on the center console inside the vehicle. >> ok. so with all that information, what did you do next? >> we told -- officer lucky explained to sergeant johnson what was going on. >> where was sergeant johnson? in your squad car? >> he was standing at my passenger's door. >> go ahead. >> and officer lucky was explaining to sergeant johnson what was happening and what he wanted to do. officer lucky only told sergeant johnson that he had a warrant, and i told officer lucky that he needed to tell sergeant johnson what the warrant was for. a weapons violation warrant would be cause for care and concern. >> all right. and after that conversation, what happened, if anything, next? >> we got out of the vehicle. sergeant johnson was going to the passenger's side. >> excuse me, don't interrupt you. back up a little. i'm getting ahead of myself. what was the plan when you got out of your vehicle with lucky and johnson was outside? what was your plan? >> the plan was for officer lucky to get the driver into custody for the warrant, and we'd further investigate with the female, who she was, and if she was the petitioner or subject of the restraining order. >> were you required by policy and law in learning about that warrant to arrest the driver of that car? >> yes, it was an order of the court. >> and with respect to the restraining order or whatever you called it, did proper police procedure that you know of for 26 years, require to find out who that lady was? >> yes. >> why would that be? >> it's my duty to find out who she is to make sure she is not in harm's way. there's been times when that hasn't happened and somebody has ended up killed because that wasn't followed. >> so now, we're at the buick, it's a buick white car. >> white car. >> and now we're at the white car and you three went up to it, correct? >> sergeant johnson went to the passenger's side. he went to the passenger's side to provide cover. >> what does provide cover mean? >> keep an eye on the occupants of the vehicle and just to monitor what's happening outside in the world. people are walking up on you or things go wrong. >> where were you located? >> i was towards the left rear corner of the car. >> and where was officer lucky? >> he was advancing to the driver's door. >> by the way, before this, how long had you known officer lucky? >> i think we were on our fifth shift. >> and he was pretty new arrival, was he? >> i believe he was in second phase maybe. but he had been a police officer before. >> ok, what does second phase mean? >> he wasn't in his initial four weeks. he was in the start of his second four weeks. >> you testified you knew at least back then he had come from another police department? >> yes, i think he worked at two previous agencies and he was an explorer. >> ok. let's go back to when you three arrived at the white car. we've already said where you're located. officer lucky was at the driver's door, is that right? >> yes, he would have been standing behind this post between the driver's door and the rear passenger door. >> what do you mean by that? standing behind the post? >> he wasn't directly in front of the door, that would be an unsafe approach. >> was there a warm day? was the window down, do you remember? >> i don't know if the window was down or not. >> ok. in any event, where were you standing again? >> at the left rear corner. >> and did you hear what officer lucky said? >> yes, i heard him ask the driver to step out of the vehicle. a couple of times. >> and did the driver step out of the vehicle finally? >> finally, he asked officer lucky a couple of times what was going on. and officer lucky said he would explain to him. >> when he got out of the car? >> yes. >> and so did the driver get out of the car? >> yes. >> and what do you remember happening next? >> officer lucky had him turn around and i think he was still asking what was going on. >> who's he? >> the driver. >> go ahead. >> sergeant johnson and lucky told him he was under arrest. and i told him he had a warrant. >> ok, so who said he's under arrest first? >> sergeant johnson, i believe. >> and sergeant johnson testified here, remember that? >> yes. >> and after he said that, did officer lucky say he's under arrest, too? >> yes. >> and you heard that? >> yes. >> and what did you say to that? >> i told him he had a warrant. >> you just said warrant? >> i think so. >> did you specify what kind of warrant, if you remember? if you don't. >> i don't think i would have. it wouldn't have been in my normal. >> ok, so what happened after johnson or lucky said you're going to be handcuffed or you're under arrest and you said that there was a warrant, what happened next? >> officer lucky had him put his hands behind his back. and i noticed that in the driver's right hand was some type -- was something, it was paper or something, and i took it out of his hand and had it in my left hand. >> you had that in your left hand. >> yes. >> and then what happened next? strike that. when you did that, i take it you got closer to the driver? >> yes. i reached into the driver's hand and took out what he had in his right hand. >> right hand or left hand? >> his right hand and i held it in my left hand. >> what happened next? >> officer lucky started to say something about don't do that. don't tense up. stop doing that. and then it just went chaotic. >> what do you remember happening after that? >> i remember a struggle with officer lucky and the driver at the door. the driver was trying to get back into the car. >> while he was trying to get back in the car, what did you do? >> i went around officer lucky as they were trying to get back in the door in between the door and officer lucky and the driver. and the driver is getting into the car. >> what happened next? >> they're still struggling and i can see sergeant johnson and the driver struggling over the gearshiftecause i can see johnson's hand and then i can see his face. >> and you knew johnson from many years before this, is that right? >> yes. >> and by looking at his face at that point in time, what did you interpret it to mean? >> he had a look of fear on his face. it's something i had seen before. >> did you say anything when you saw this? what did you do? >> we were struggling, we were trying to keep him from driving away. it's just -- it's just when went chaotic. and then i remember yelling "taser, taser, taser"! and nothing happened. and then he told me i shot him! >> can you proceed? >> yes. i'm fine. >> ok. after the driver said you shot him, do you remember what you said or if you don't remember, did you look at the video and see what you said? >> do you actually remember what you said is my question? not with help from a video. >> i don't remember what i said. >> and what do you remember next, if anything? >> they had an ambulance for me and i don't know why. and then i went -- then i was at the station, i don't remember a lot of things afterwards. >> do you remember saying something about prison? >> no. >> if you did say that, do you have any idea now why you would say that? >> no. >> was the climate back then about police officers a little rough? >> objection, your honor. >> the objection is sustained. >> all right. you don't remember saying it? >> no. >> and you don't know why you said it? >> no. >> did you -- do you remember the response of sergeant johnson or major johnson gave you? >> no. >> and when next do you remember what happened, if anything? if you remember. >> i remember getting in the ambulance and then i was at the station. >> ok. >> and do you remember being in the ambulance arriving at the station? >> no. >> you don't remember the station? >> no. i remember getting to the station. >> once you got to the station, do you remember what happened next? >> the next thing i remember is officer fricke was in the room with me. >> where were you located? do you remember that? >> in the front office. >> in the front office room, do you remember were you sitting down? standing up? >> i was on the floor. >> and after that at some point in time, did your husband show up? >> yes. >> at what time do you believe from back there on april 11th, what time do you believe that your memory came back to you? >> probably when my husband got there. so much of it is missing. >> after that night, and for the last few months, have you been in therapy? >> yes. >> and did you -- do you still work as a police officer there? >> no. >> did you quit? >> i did. >> and this was your career? >> yes. >> and when did you quit? >> a day or two after the incident. >> and why did you quit? >> there was so much bad things happening, i didn't want my co-workers and i didn't want anything bad to happen to the city. >> and did you own a home in anoka or hennapin county at the time? you and your husband? >> objection. >> the objection is overruled. >> did you own a home, family home for years? >> yes. >> and did you sell it? >> eventually. >> before you sold it, did you move out of the state? >> yeah. >> do you now live out of state? >> yeah. >> may i have a moment, your honor. thank you, i'm done now. >> good morning, miss potter. >> good morning. >> you've been a police officer, were a police officer for 26 years. >> yes. >> is that right? you said you started in 1995. >> yes. >> and that was with the brooklyn center police department for that entire career, right? >> yes. >> and you said that you resigned from the brooklyn center police department, right? >> yes. >> and that was on april 12th of this year. right? >> yeah, a day or two after the incident. >> right after you had shot and killed daunte wright. >> yes. >> and throughout that time period, you were a licensed peace officer, right? >> yes. >> and to become licensed, you have to go through a number of requirements. fair? >> yes. >> you had a college degree. >> excuse me, your honor. >> sure. you have a college degree, right? >> yes. >> and you also had to complete the peace officer education program that skills component you talked about. >> yes. >> and that included skill sets and classroom training as well? >> yes. >> you had to pass an exam to become an officer? >> yes. >> and then you did all that before you started with the brooklyn center police department in 1995, right? >> yes. >> and then you got your license through the post board, correct? >> yes. >> and that stands for peace officer standards in training. >> yes. >> so you were licensed throughout that whole 26-year career, right? >> yes. >> and you maintained all of the requirements to keep your license? >> yes. >> including all the training that was required, right? >> yes. >> and that training that's required for your license has all different kinds of components, true? >> yeah. >> things like use of force, use of firearms, tasers, all kinds of things. >> yes. >> and you did all that training. >> yes. >> and you did all that every year throughout that 26 year period, right? >> yes. >> sometimes multiple times a year, right? >> yes. >> and all of those requirements were in place to make sure that you continued at the beginning of your career, continued to be competent and capable of performing the requirements of the job, right? >> yes. >> you mentioned on direct that you were also a hostage negotiator as part of your duties? >> crisis negotiator. >> crisis negotiator. that involves some hostage type situations? >> i've never had a hostage situation. >> ok. crisis negotiation. >> yes. >> and that involves some deescalation tactics, i presume, correct? >> yes. >> and you have to develop that skill set and be pretty good at deescalating situations as a crisis negotiator, fair? >> yes. >> you had some experience in stressful situations doing that? >> no. >> but you were a crisis negotiator but never experienced a stressful situation? >> we talked to people. >> talked to people in crisis. >> yes. >> and part of your job as a police officer is dealing with people on their worst days, right? >> yes. >> people who don't want to cooperate with you sometimes? right? >> most of the people we talk to in crisis are either barricaded behind a door or talking to us from another room. >> ok, for 26 years, you were a patrolling officer, right? >> yes. >> you saw people out on the street every day as part of your job duties. >> yes. >> and you talked about doing a lot of traffic stops during that career, correct? >> i did some traffic stops. >> well, in some of those cases, there are people that have weapons, right? >> yes. >> sometimes people want to flee, right? >> yes. >> sometimes people are violent. >> yes. >> and all that is part of being a police officer, dealing with people in those situations, right? >> yes. >> you'd agree that you're bound by policy and the requirements of the job that brooklyn center, the police department for you, right? >> yes. >> and you heard the commander testify but yet you have acknowledged those policies and agree to abide by them every year you were an officer, fair? >> yes. >> and you'd agree that your fundamental duty as a police officer is to safeguard life, right? >> yes. >> and you also have the duty to never employ unnecessary force. true? >> yes. >> part of the policy also includes some of your responsibilities as an officer, right? >> yes. >> and that includes being alert and attentive and capable of performing your job, right? >> yes. >> and getting back to the training and sort of the post requirements, there's a lot of training that goes into being a police officer. fair? >> yes. >> we talked about a couple of those things but one of those subjects is use of force, right? >> uh-huh. >> is that a yes? >> yes. >> and use of force can include things like restraints, handcuffs, defensive tactics, chemical irritants using batons, tasers, less lethal weapons and firearms as well, right? all of those things are options available to you. >> not all of them. >> ok, you carry a whole number of things on your duty belt every day, right? >> yes. >> that includes a firearm and a taser, right? >> yes. >> and you also had other items on that duty belt as well, correct? >> yes. >> as part of the training that you went through every year, they cover topics, all kinds of uses of force, right? >> yes. >> including the things on your duty belt and maybe other options that the department could use additionally, true? >> only the things i was assigned to my duty belt. >> but in any case, that use of force training was a pretty key component of being an officer, right? >> yes. >> you were trained about when you could use force, how much force to use, and what would be appropriate force? fair? >> fair. >> and not only were you trained on that, but you had a lot of policy that dictated what you could and could not do in a situation, right? >> yes. >> you were also trained on the readiness aspect of use of force, right, being ready to engage whatever force might be required. right? >> yes. >> including making use of force during stress. >> what do you mean? auto you'd a lot of scenario based training, right? >> yes. >> in those situations, those scenarios were set up to be as close as they could be to real life, right? >> i suppose. >> so you would be trained to have to make decisions in the moment about what to do and what force to use, right? >> it was a training situation so it was usually slow and meticulous and controlled. >> you did this year after year, right, for the entirety of your career. correct? >> scenario based training started later, probably last 10 or 15 years. >> sure. but use of force training has been around for a long time, right? >> yes. >> since you started as a police officer, you have in some cases had to use force, true? >> yes. >> and there are limitations on how and when to use that force, right? >> yes. >> you've had training on that throughout your entire career. right? >> yes. >> as part of that process to maintain your license you sign in and you sign off on attendance forms. you have to be there, right? >> right. >> and every year you have a certain number of training hours that are required, right? >> yes. >> and you said on direct that you participated and you were paying attention during all of those trainings, true? >> yes. >> and some of those trainings had classroom instruction and power point and things like that, right? >> yes. >> and reviewing policies and other documents, right? >> yes. >> and then there was also the hands on training with the practical components using drawing of weapons and things like that, right? >> yes. >> and over the course of your career, you completed many, many hours of training, right? >> yes. >> hmmm. in terms of credit hours, we are taking in it the ballpark of 1700 credit hours. does that sound right? >> i don't know the number of hours. you are probably right. >> your training hours would have been in the thousands of hours over the 26 year career, right? >> yes. >> hmmm. you indicated that there were not tasers available when you first started at brooklyn center? >> no, they came in the early 2000s. >> in 1996 you had a firearm, right? >> in 1995, yes. >> sorry '95 and sworn in '96? >> no, february 27th 1995. >> in '95 when you first started you had a firearm and trained how to handle it? >> yes. >> load it and unload it? >> yes. >> trained how to draw it and fire it and how to safely handle it, yes? >> yes. >> that included when not to fire it, right? >> i suppose. >> that training started the attin going of your career in '95 and continued until you resigned, right? >> yes. tasers came later. you were first trained on using a taser in 2002? >> that's what the documents say. i am not sure when they came out. >> so you would have been trained ever year there after, right? >> yes. >> and you started carrying a taser on your belt regularly as of 2005? >> yes. >> hmmm. at a minimum in addition to the other training, you would have had taser training year after year for at least the last 19 years? >> right? >> yes. >> and taser training that is required, you saw the documents that were in court. also, required not only -- a review policy for the taser? >> yes. >> it also requires practicing those reaction time draws, correct? >> sometimes. >> all right. if we could put up exhibits 334, the last page. i will put on the screen what was already admitted as exhibit 334. we will scroll down to the very last page. and highlight section c please. so, part of the taser policy includes that all training should include performing reaction hand draws to reduce the possibility of accidentally drawing and firing a firearm? >> that's what it says. >> that's what you were trained to do? >> we were not always drawing tasers from holtsteres.