0 do you remember looking tony satterfield in the eye and lying to him? >> i remember lying to tony satterfield and i remember looking him in the eye on many occasions. >> and lying to him? >> yeah. >> lying to his family? >> i lied to his family. i don't know if i did it in person but i know i had phone conversations with them where i lied to them. >> okay. let's talk a little bit about the pills if we can. >> okay. >> and you've already testified, as have other people, that you were still able to function as a lawyer over the years despite the pills that you were using. is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> and you were able of course during this period of time to engage in these relatively complicated thefts that increased over the years that we've just talked about despite the pill usage, is that correct? >> i was. i was. >> all right. and you were also able to, during this time period, convince your staff that nothing was amiss with all of these exhibits, despite your pill usage. >> most of those didn't require convincing my staff, but just so we're on the same page again, i acknowledge that i certainly allowed them to be misled. i certainly allowed them to do things that i shouldn't have done on my behalf knowing that they trusted me. >> how many pills were you using a day? >> depends on a number of items. most importantly how strong the pill was. >> let's talk about -- let's start maybe in january of 2021 and move forward. can you describe to the jury what your daily pill intake was like? >> i think at that time most of what i was purchasing was 30 milligram pills, instant release oxycodone. probably mixed in with some oxycontin which was made of ox owe -- oxy codeine which is just time release. i would have been taking anywhere from 1500 milligrams maybe to maybe 1,000 -- maybe 1,000 milligrams or 1200 milligrams on a day i didn't take as much or didn't have as much up to -- there were days, many days, a lot of days, most days were more than that. many days would be, you know, more than 2,000 milligrams a day. >> how many pills was that? >> it depends on the strength. >> let's say it's the 30s that you just mentioned. >> if i too -- if i had 30 milligram pills, you figure 1 pills would be 3,000 milligrams. >> you are taking 60 a day or something like that? >> there were days i took more than that and days i took less than that. >> how would you take them during the course of a day? how many are you taking at one time, how frequent in the time period january to june? >> you know, there is a point in time -- i'm not sure when it was -- i think it was well before that, where -- you have to understand this. this is something that i didn't -- i can still remember the first time i ever took an oxycontin. >> can you answer my question and i will let you explain all you want. how many were you taking a day during this time from january to june, answer that first, please. if you want to explain i'm happy to let you do so. >> i'm not positive and here is why is because over the years as i was saying the first oxycontin. one made me sick. and that was when i was transitioning from hydro company doan to oxycodone. it was a really strong one. it made me sick. one oxycontin pill was like ten hydro pills. as i took more and more and over the years you build up a tolerance to pain pills and so what might give me this energy. the reason -- one of the reasons i became so addicted is some people talk about pain pills and how they make them lethargic and where they can't do anything and they feel -- opiates gave me energy. whatever i was doing it made it more interesting. it made me want to do it longer. you know, to go on a drive, it just -- at the beginning it made everything better. but i took so much just to keep -- it got to a point where i was taking so much just to not backslide or go into withdrawals or have all those symptoms so it got to the point where i was taking the amounts that i came to be taking in the time period you are talking about january to june. so it evolved over time. it wasn't like it just started, mr. waters. >> give me one example of a day during that time period. did you start at 8:00 in the morning or whatever time you got up and take one and then one every 30 minutes? i'm giving you a chance to explain. >> it would totally depend on any number of circumstances. so starting a day one of the main things this would depend on is how late the day before i had taken pills and how many i had taken. and did i take them during the night? did i wake up during the night and take them? so, you know, let's just say it had been a while since i took any and i slept and i woke up, all right? then i would immediately -- immediately first thing take pills because it had been a while. a lot of times if you slept and hadn't taken pills, you would wake up and you could tell the beginnings of those -- i won't say they were really withdrawals but the agitation you feel when you don't take it and you could tell it so you had to take it right away. first thing i would do was take pills. >> that's how strong the withdrawals are for opiates, right? you feel that agitation until you can take another pill. >> yes. but that's just -- agitation is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to opiate withdrawals. >> i think you said in your what has been played for the jury and the telephone conversation with special agent kelly that -- you talked about withdrawals, just how strong they are. how you are willing to do anything to make them stop, correct? >> i think what i said is almost anything. >> almost anything. >> describe that, please. >> you are sick. you are physically -- you are physically sick. it's like having the flu when you ache and your joints hurt. you don't want to get up. you can't get up. that's after a while. it starts with what you are talking about agitation and, you know, fidgeting. everybody talks about how fidgeting i was. but it starts with that and then it goes to you just -- you might be sitting here and all of a sudden sweats running is down your face all over your body. like you ran a marathon. you literally sweat that much. the next thing that comes on after about 12 hours is i call it jumpy legs. i mean you literally -- there is no way that you can sit right here in this chair. you couldn't remain sitting. you would have to get up and move around. it is like your legs don't want to work. and that lasts for about anywhere from 18 to 24 hours. during that period, the -- you know, the intestinal issues come in and you literally can't control yourself. you have diarrhea like you have food poisoning. you throw up. you physically are sick. >> how many times did you try to self-detox? >> mr. waters, dozens, dozens. if not hundreds. it is so many i can't tell you. >> and those symptoms you just described are extremely powerful and made it very difficult to do that, is that correct? >> made it difficult to -- >> self-detox? >> oh, extremely hard. >> you mentioned yesterday that you were paranoid. how long had that been going on? >> well no, i didn't say that i was paranoid. what i said was as the addiction evolved there would be situations where you would have these paranoid thoughts. >> when did those first start? >> i can't tell you when they first started. >> how long before june of 2021, a week, a month. >> no, no, it was -- you know, it was as my addiction got worse, i mean it was a significant period of time but, you know. >> how long would you have these paranoid thoughts? >> usually a matter of seconds. it was something -- again, my whole life you wouldn't see me where i didn't have pills on me. that's where i kept them. i kept them on me because i was scared to put them somewhere for fear somebody would find them. i kept them on me. if you saw me, i had pills on me. i had a pocketful of pills on june 8th, on june 8th when i was sitting in david owen's patrol car. so i always had them on me. and i might turn -- i might be going to a town and i turned on hampton street and a police car pulls out, boom, i have paranoid thoughts, you know? it just -- but i could always say you're not doing anything wrong. he is not following you. i could get past it then in a matter of seconds. >> did anybody if your family ever see you having these severe withdrawals? >> absolutely. >> and who did? >> maggs, pawpaw, bus, my dad, randy, john marvin, and just to be clear, randy and john marvin never saw me having withdrawals before september. >> thank you for clarifying that. prior to june of 2021 who in your family saw you having these severe with drawings. >> bus, pawpaw, maggie, my dad. >> do you remember calling -- remember calling paul a little detective? >> i don't know that i ever called him a little detective but i think maggie did. i may have. pawpaw was very intuitive so i heard -- i heard miriam call him a little detective. maggie used to call him that. >> did that have anything to do with the pills? >> well, yeah, it had something to do with it. paul was always that way. but that -- what led him to be called a little detective certainly there were times when paul found pills. >> including just a month before the murders, is that correct? >> no, sir. >> all right. do you recall 6-5-23 which was a text from paul to you which he said that maggie found pills in your bag? >> right. >> tell me about what happened after that? >> you asked me about paul finding them. it was maggie that found them. >> it was maggie that found them? >> yes, sir. >> but paul is the one who reached out to you, correct? >> on that occasion, yes, sir. >> all right. and what was the discussion after that? >> i can't remember exactly what it was but it was about that i had eye surgery -- i don't know what day it was. days before that. the day maggie found them maggie drove me to the doctor for me to have my cataract removed, whatever they call that surgery, i can't remember. i had a cataract taken out. out patient. you come in for a couple of hours and you come out. it was during covid and so maggie wasn't allowed to come into the doctor's office and so she sat in the car and i had left pills in the computer bag and sitting out there bored, i guess she started looking at my computer and found them in the computer bag so she found those pills. >> all right. and so she obviously told paul and paul texted you, correct? about finding those pills? >> that's correct. >> in may of 2021. >> that's correct. >> you have heard your sister-in-law say he called him the little detective about the pills. you heard that testimony in this courtroom? >> i did hear that. >> did they start to watch you like a hawk and get on you about your pill usage during the month of may? >> no. >> they did not? >> no, mr. waters, this battle that i had with addiction, it had been going on for years, years. and so they had been watching me like a hawk for years before may. may was just one occurrence where i let them down. again. >> they had been watching you like a hawk for years, is that correct? >> about my pill addiction, yes, sir. that is correct. >> this time in may wasn't the only time that paul found pills or maggie found pills, is that correct? >> there were a number of times where maggs found pills, pawpaw found pills, bus found pills, i mean, it was an ongoing -- it was just an ongoing battle for me. >> and after they found those pills in may, that being maggie and paul, were they trying to get you to self-detox? >> no, sir, not at that point in time. >> they just let it go. ? >> no, they didn't let it go but at that point in time, pawpaw and i had already had a discussion based on -- i can't remember exactly when it was but there had been a previous occasion a good while back where -- there had been a previous occasion where either maggie or paul had found pills and paul had come to me and asked me -- and i told him, you know, i was back on the pills. and -- >> when was this occasion? >> we had a long talk. as i said, i don't remember exactly when it was before that. paul and i had had a long talk and we had agreed -- i had agreed and i detoxed so many times. i had been to detox. i detoxed at home with maggie's help and detoxed at home with doctor's help. detoxed on my own, tried to, and it just detoxing just didn't work. it just -- you couldn't -- you could detox, but you couldn't -- but i couldn't -- i couldn't stay off of them, and so -- i promised paul that as soon as his -- as soon as we finished with his criminal case that i would go to rehab. and -- and on this particular occasion, paul knew that his mom worried about me so much with the pills that on this particular occasion, i think that pawpaw convinced maggie that i got those pills in anticipation of the eye surgery but that i never took them so that she would not worry that i was once again -- >> now you are talking about the time in may that paul talked to maggie and told her that? >> i'm not claiming that, mr. waters. that's the fact, that's what happened. >> we're hearing that now, correct? >> hearing what now? >> what you just said. >> you just asked me. if you keep making an issue the first time you hear about these things. when i got arrest had and want to jail we began reaching out to talk to you about all these things to try you everything i had done to give you all these details to help you go through the financial things and up until the time that you charged me with murdering my wife and child you had never give jim griffin a response to our invitations to sit down and meet with you. >> so you are saying i never responded to jim griffin. are you saying that you ever before yesterday reached out to anyone for yourself or through your attorneys and reached out to anyone and told them the story about the kennels. are you telling me that? >> what i'm telling you. >> answer my question first, please. did you ever reach out to anyone in law enforcement or the prosecution and tell that story you told this jury yesterday about the kennels before yesterday? >> did i ever reach out to law enforcement to say i want to tell you about the kennels, no, i did not. >> the fifth amendment line. this questioning about him volunteering information on these charges violates his fifth amendment rights and we strongly object to any more we have to make a motion. >> you brought it up. >> objection is overruled. >> what i did was -- >> answer my question first, sir. >> he was talking about financial stuff. >> answer my question. before yesterday, did you ever bring up what you told this jury about that kennel to anybody in the prosecution or anybody in law enforcement? >> no. i didn't have the opportunity to, mr. waters, because you would not respond to my invitations to reach out and tell you about all the things that i had done wrong. and to talk about bringing this to a head to talk about bringing this to closing. i understand how many people i hurt. i understand how angry my partners are and how hurt they are. and i understand how hurt these people that i stole money from are. i understand how hurt they are. and one of the things that i believe is getting past this may help them get some closure and so since at least january i've been trying to sit down with y'all to talk to you y'all. and never, never, ever got a response to the multiple requests. >> multiple requests? >> yes, sir. multiple requests. i would ask about this. >> did mark ball ever hear your story to the jury about the kennels until yesterday, your buddy and law partner? >> i haven't spoken to mark ball since i went to rehab. >> these were the same law partners you were listening to the night of is that what you testified to this jury earlier? you testified to that earlier, did you not? >> i don't understand your question. >> didn't you testify earlier you were listening to your law partners on the night of the incident? >> was i listening to them? >> you testified to that. simple question, sir. >> i'm sure i was. when are you talking about? >> on june 8th in the early morning hours you testified you were listening to them but you never told them the kennel story either and they heard it for the first time yesterday as well, isn't that correct? >> yes. that's the first time they heard it. >> the first time crosby ever heard that would have been yesterday. >> he was listening it would have been the first time. >> and the first time crawford heard it was yesterday? first time danny henderson, represent you in the boat case was yesterday? >> yesterday is the first time i have said that openly. but that's not what you were asking me, mr. waters. you go ahead. >> first time your brother randy heard that was yesterday. >> if he was listening. >> just to be clear i was begging for a meeting with y'all to try to bring this to a close to talk to you all about everything up until the time that you charged me with hurting maggie and paul. now, after that point in time, i stopped. >> you were begging for a meeting and -- but you admit information was never conveyed that you wanted to change your story after multiple interviews with law enforcement about what happened that night, including the most important fact of all which is when the last time you supposedly saw your wife and son alive was. >> i don't know exactly what was conveyed or not because to you because i wasn't part -- all i know is what i was trying to do was to sit down. i understood to bring all this to a close that y'all would want me to sit down and go through all of these financial things, all of these things that i had done wrong, and to try to bring that to a close. i was repeatedly trying to sit down with y'all. >> the reality is, mr. murdaugh, the reason why no one has ever heard that before is because you had to sit in this courtroom and hear your family and friends one after the other come and testify you were on the kennel video so you like you've done so many times over the course of your life had to back up and make a new story that fit with the facts that can't be denied, isn't that true sir? >> no, sir, that's not true. >> okay. you have done that over and over again over the years with all this we've been talking about, haven't you? >> i've done what over and over again. >> the second you are confronted with facts you can't deny, you immediately come up with a new lie. isn't that correct? >> mr. waters, have we established i have lied many times but i can't sit here and tell you what are you talking about facts that i can't deny? i would disagree with that proposition that you are putting out that that was what i did all the time. in doing that, i admit again that i have lied to people that trusted me. >> so we can agree that the prosecution and law enforcement and so many of your friends and family heard for the first time your story about the kennels yesterday after all these weeks of testimony. can we agree on that? >> law enforcement, my partners, and my friends heard me say that for the first time, yes, i agree with that. >> would you agree with me --