sort of cooperate with president trump, both politically and on the question of international security. so it's going to get very complex, and it could get uglier before it becomes clearer. paul: i have to say, bill, rudy giuliani going out and running sort of a shadow foreign policy with ukraine and when he could just go through the state department just doesn't look good. particularly given the fact that rudy giuliani at any given moment just makes a bad presentation of the facts. you never know what's really true >> yeah, look, presidents choose emissaries all the time outside of government -- paul: sure. >> rudy is a pretty volatile emissary. it does complicate things because the democrats are trying to secretary pompeo and attorney general barr, and i think it would have been easier for the president without rudy being in the middle of that mix, because i think what they are doing is perfectly appropriate. look, we know that you don't have to commit a criminal act for it to be impeachable. the house can determine -- paul: right.