Hello again. I hope everybody had a great lunch. We are at the portion of the program that i i know many pee are eager to hear. So please welcome to the stage the moderator for our keynote address, our truman member monique alcala. [applause] hello. Good afternoon, everyone. I am so delighted to be a today to introduce our keynote speaker Rachel Maddow and also moderate the q a portion of this conference in just a little bit. This is actually very special for me. I dont think i mentioned to her whenever we were chatting back, kind scared, but i did, i did, i moved back to austin like a couple of years ago and when was because my father was sick. Sadly, he passed away in october but but i remember him telling me a few years ago that he thought watching he stopped watching this because all the extremist rhetoric and all the attacks on our country except for rachels show. [applause] so when truman sp to do this, of course i. Im huge fan it also its incredibly extra special me just because of that. Very thankful to truman for asking me to do this. So lets go ahead and introduce our speaker. Rachel maddow is the host of the Emmy Awardwinning show, Rachel Maddow show on msnbc. It was a most successful show launched bing msnbcs history immediately boosting ratings in its time. When it debuted in september 2008. Sure most of you in the audience know how great the show is. I know i do and how talented rachel is. What did you know shes also the recipient of tens of awards and recognitions like in these . Come on. And also she was named breakout star by the Washington Post in 2008 when the show launched an also named one of the top Ten Political newcomers by politico. Com. Last year along with former reducer michael your best she executive produced and launched the podcast, and a part historian oco not part great sedition trial. It even caught the attention of Steven Spielberg which has the film rights and would help the future film. Alter it is a second original podcast from them paul abbate series which earned the prestigious dupont colombia award. In addition to all of this she isnt authored several books including drift, the and mooring of American Military power which debuted at number one on new times bestseller list in march of 2012 and blowout corrupted democracy. She received a bachelors degree in Public Policy from Stanford University and she earned her doctorate in Political Science at Oxford University which she attended on a rhodes scholarship. She lives in new york city and massachusetts with her partner, artist, susan. Lets welcome to the stage Rachel Maddow. [applause] that is because i give weird speeches. [laughing] so this is your fair warning that this will be a weird speech. Im sorry in advance. I can tell you right now youre going to have no idea what im talking about most of the things im talking about. It is a story about bad guys but theyre bad guys you havent herd of, and that dont necessarily matter to you. It says some unkind things about our namesake president harry truman, which is probably a bad choice for this room. [laughing] but stick with me. It wraps around and there are no commercials and theres no guests. All right. 1789 was a french revolution. Typical maddow show start right . 1889 with the 100th anniversary 100th anniversary of the french revolution and the was a worlds fair that year so naturally they had paris hosted on the centennial and what paris built for the world they are making 89 was the eiffel tower. And parisians that was absolutely hideous. They were so glad it was only going to last for the duration of the fair. But that is how we got the eiffel tower. The worlds theres also how they got the space needle in seattle. Yeah. Seattle has nothing to do with drug use. Had to do with [laughing] it had to do with the 1962 worlds fair. They built the space needle as a centerpiece for the fairgrounds for that year, and, of course, we still have today and it is obviously awesome. We dont really do worlds fairs anymore, not in the same way we used to but they were a really, really big deal for a long time. 193939 the worlds there was in new york, and that was the worlds fair with the world was introduced to some weird new thing called television. They debuted that at the worlds fair. Also my lawn. Also view masters. You can judge amongst yourself which is at a more important impact on american years since. That 1939 worlds fair stretched into 1940, edited think about was going on in the world at that time, there was an interesting reflection of it at that worlds fair as nazi germany started invading country after country in europe, at the National Pavilions of all the invaded countries one after the other started going black, started taking themselves down. The first time we got those National Pavilions at a worlds fair where countries have their own area at the fair to build things unsure of what was great about the country, the first worlds for the did that was one chicago in 1892. It was another anniversary, 400 years since columbus dating to the new world so was like discovery of america. They have all these really racist anthropological exhibits to show what the world was like before white people got here. But they showed up the first ever ferris wheel at the 1892 chicago worlds they are. Chicago was super, super super proud of how that worlds fair went took so much so that it to this date is on the chicago city flag. Chicagos flag is like white with two blue stripes and it has four redstart. One of the stars is for that worlds fair. Like in perpetuity it was that important which is awkward because at that worlds fair the mayor of chicago was assassinated. Disappointed Office Seeker went to his house and killed him. They had to change the closing ceremony, so it was sad. Lots of things about that worlds fair make it stand up at the National Pavilions where countries from all of the world would have their own country specific lavish exhibits and build the thing to show for the work, they were. That was a real innovation that year here and that year to represent the british empire, the british colonies at that fair in chicago constructed a huge thing, not like eiffel tower big, but big. It was a fake buddhist temple. Fullscale temple. They called it ceylon court as an ceylon sri lanka and it was a temporary building constructed just for the fair but it was massive. It was 18,000 ft. 2, so like castle size. It was built with rare hardwoods. Not a single nail was used in the construction it was all held together with pegs. Big elaborate thing the cost 1 million to build it in 1890s dollars, like like 33 million today just for this big, beautiful but we think it was just for the fair and after the fair it was slated to be demolished. Which of course seems like a waste, least it seems like a waste to a rich real estate guy in wisconsin. After that worlds fair was over in 1893, he paid to have this 18,000 square foot temple dismantled, packed onto railcars, 24 different railcars, shipped it to us gods that have it rebuild on the shores of geneva lake in the town of lake geneva wisconsin. And once this big 18,000 ft. 2 temple was assembled on the shore of the lake, the real estate guy decided he did not like it and so he sold it to a rich chicago banker, the rich chicago bigger than probably sold to the may take them as in the maytag washing machin family. Family. They made this milliondollar 18,000 square foot fake hardwick temple held together with pegs all taken from the worlds fair, then made a part of their estate in lake geneva, wisconsin, where it fit right in. [laughing] lake geneva the 1920s and the 1930s was just a real showcase for the ostentatiously rich of the midwest. The maytag washing machine family have huge fake buddhist temple brought in by rail car from the worlds fair. The Wisconsin Historical society will still to this day happily so you postcard images of a big sri lankan temple and come grossly perched on the banks of geneva lake. The other rich people in lake geneva had also bought and shipped the denmark pavilion from the worlds fair, also the norway pavilion. Also for some reason the state of idaho had a whole building at that worlds from somebody in lake geneva disassembled it, reassembled it and they live in the building. It was a thing. Its like got center. [laughing] this is a place where everybody was kind at doing themselves. You have the families that owned the morton salt company. They built themselves a 13 bedroom manchin in lake geneva with 30foot ceilings. The crane family of the plumbing fixtures fortune built a 22 bedroom palace in lake geneva. There was a rich socialite novelist named jane eyre fairbanks. She built a 40 room manchin there that was made to look like it was stamped out of gingerbread. Still today among where coming, dont worry. [laughing] still today lake geneva is among the swankiest addresses in that whole part of the country. They called it the switzerland of america. Theres a manchin in lake geneva on the market today that is like 35 million and it comes with a whole separate house on the grounds thats just for the owners model train set. So if thats you and you the money to spare, lake geneva is for you. In the 1930s lake geneva was that errors equivalent of like the showoff lifestyles of the rich and famous kind of place. And it was also no jews allowed. Lake geneva is about 70 miles from chicago and in january 1941 the Lake Geneva Chamber of commerce put an ag in the Chicago Daily news that said this, it said come to the switzerland of america, lake geneva, wisconsin, right to chamber of commerce for complete information. Tailoring to a gentile clientele. So real estate transactions were what they call restricted in lake geneva. Which meant restricted to nonjews only. A lot of places were in that boat and the United States in 1941 but lake geneva was one of the only places that was advertising it explicitly. They were saying overtly and chicago newspapers come here chicago money. Here you can get away from the jews. A few months after that ag ran in the summer of 1941 a new York Magazine relocated its whole staff, its whole operation from manhattan to lake geneva, wisconsin. The explanation offered by the editor was that new york citys mayor was to antigerman. The editor told Time Magazine that he decided to move his magazine out of new york because of mayor laguardia has yells that german bombers are coming. The decision was explained in blunter terms to a far right newsletter called america in danger. What they said about the movie 1941 was this. They said for some weeks before we left new york our mailbags were rifled. New york has a jew postmaster and did you laguardia as mayor. The magazine that moved the editor told another reporter that he wanted to get his magazine out of new york and into lake geneva specifically instead because there was about to be a civil war in the United States in 1941. He said as long as roosevelt continued to drive america towards war against hitler, Midwest Farmers were going to rise up and lead civil war and they were going to win. Because Midwest Farmers were the real heart when stock of america. America. They did not want to fight the blood in europe. Today the day was soon apprg when they would rise up, it would take up arms, overthrow the elites come over the u. S. Government to keep america from fighting hitler. Since the day was coming soon he figured it was better to be in wisconsin which was going to be the winning side of the civil war, particularly against the east coast. Sort of overlooked now, even i think people who are looking at that history at that time but lots of the more radical americans who didnt want us to fight in the Second World War predicted we would have a civil war here if roosevelt did get us into it. And some of them were saying publicly that they feared that might happen but some of them were plainly kind of rooting for that. So as the magazine moved from new york to lake geneva, you can see, if you can find old copies of it, that it started to change the magazine physically. It got kind of swanky. Its covers were glossy and printed in color which was read at the time because its expensive. It was printed on really high quality paper which is a benefit for those of us looking at this issue now because it survived as opposed to publications that have dissolved over time. This is a magazine that was long, had lots of pages. Also interestingly it had no visible means of support. It had no ads. It did have sort of tsas telling readers like how to join the local America First committee, which was the mainstream organization advocating to keep america from joining world war ii. But it didnt have anything that looked like a paid advertisement at all. How was it being funded . For flavor of what the magazine goes like this this is a me that put Charles Lindbergh on the cover and henry ford. Politicians like influential republican senator Gerald Knight and editorial slant was aggressively and emphatically that use shouldnt join the war, that neither germany nor japan was in a threat to us, that we should be applied within if you think it was pointless for allies to try to fight germany in particular which was is h stronger than everybody else militarily. It also hinted and sometimes sort of flat out said, particularly in its cartoons that maybe here in america it was just the jews who were trying to get us into the war. Not because it was good for america but because jews always have the own nefarious purposes. Although there was no indication that there were, all that many paying subscribers to this very expansive a trip expense of mexicans to have less printed and mailed it in huge quantities. The magazine was sent in bulk to u. S. Army bases and u. S. Army airfield and even to combat ships in port picked his magazine was called scribners commentator and it showed up in both corners unused military posts as far afield as the philippines and alaska and the panama canal zone and every issue of this thing is like hitler is winning, possibly hitler is right. U. S. Has no hope in fighting against him and certainly no reason to fight against them. Thats being shipped out in bulk to u. S. Troops in the field. Who was paying to produce this thing . What was a coming from . In november 1941, that same year, a grand jury was convened in washington to investigate the German Government secret propaganda operations inside the United States. A writer for the magazine for scribners commentator was subpoenaed to testify to the grand jury. The questions for this writer about the distribution of the mixing particularly because his bank sent to u. S. Troops compilations about who was backing the magazine financially. When the writer got his subpoena he went on the lam and it was a National Manhunt to find him. He eventually explained he was on a sudden impulse vacation in the deep south and had forgotten about the subpoena. He was later tried and convicted as a secret for an agent who was on the payroll of the japanese government. Publisher of the magazine was and and and fighting to testify when he was cautious of the magazine was founded, he had the worlds most amazing story. He told the grand jury under oath that the way the magazine was funded is crazy but youve got to believe me, was anonymous gift wrapped parcels of cash. [laughing] that were left as presents for him at his front door in lake geneva. He said on one occasion he found inside his front hall hurled through an open window a parcel that was 15,000 in cash in 20 bills because all wrapped up like a present. He had no idea who it to it through his window. It was just laying in the hall. Thank god he left his window open that night. And it happened again, another 15,000 also in 20 bills also wrapped up in gift wrapped likee a present this time left just inside his front door in lake geneva. For perspective from 15,000 there would be about 300,000 today. And there was still more parties that one day in lake geneva a man on the street walked up with him and without a word handled him a parcel, 3000 in cash but never seen the man before, did know he was. The man didnt give his name, just handed him the money and walked away and that was how they paid for the magazine. It was amazing. Said another 6000 found wrapped up like a president sitting on his desk one day. He had a habit of leaving his door and locked in safe lake geneva. And so who knows . Shouldve been anyone. But thats how he said his expensive glossy magazine was funded. Angels may become some sort of otherworldly benefactor is like winning the lottery without even playing. Four times. The publisher explained to the grand jury no, he was not curious about who was dropping off this cash. [laughing] and he didnt say why the jury, grand jury should see it as odd either. He explained he was producing magazine for such compelling quality that it didnt surprise him that anonymous benefactors would do this. But if it really was like santa leaving anonymous gifts at the lake geneva house to find this magazine, the prosecutors who are leading the grand jury inquiry at questions they want ask him about that. Because one of those big anonymous influxes of cash seemed to coincide with his publisher taking a trip to new york. In september 194141 the guy left like the lake geneva, checked in pennsylvania and took the train back to scott and the next day many ride back in wisconsin he went to the bank and deposit of 15,000. The prosecutor said to him in front of the grand jury, hey, in this case a kind of doesnt look like santa. It kind of looks like you went to new york and got 15 grand and brought it back and put in the bank. He said no, no, no. That whole trip to new york thing was just a lark. Was a big misunderstanding. It was a mistake. He insisted that actually that was one of those gift wrapped parcels of cash that arrived like it always did like a stork that dropped off a new baby, just randomly dropped off at his house. And on that occasion for whatever reason it seemed like so much what he thought its that safety deposit in wisconsin. I will buy a train ticket, take the money on a train wreck in your company put in the new york bank and come back here when he said he got back gnocchi changes might, he felt so, so instead he took the money on a return trip back to wisconsin and deposited it there. That was his explanation. You will be shocked to learn it does not appear to story was true. [laughing] when the war was over in 1946, one of the prosecutors who have been investigating these nazi propaganda efforts in the United States, he went to germany to interview captured nazis because now the was over right. These are high nazi officials who were to spread nazi propaganda promote american fascist groups here. While he was in germany and is doing this questioning their work two nazi officials who admitted in fact, that they were santa. They were the leprechauns, the storks. They had been providing funding from the German Government in cash for that american magazine in lake geneva, wisconsin. Also for another broadsheet publication in lake geneva that took the same editorial line but that was even more antisemitic. This nazi government funded propaganda to try to undermine the american war effort to promote fascism and especially antisemitism here, and to keep america from joining the war against the axis powers that was all based out of this rich, probably at the somatic no jews allowed town in wisconsin. One high ranking each official admitted to the prosecutor that he was the one who at approved the German Government providing the funding. I second nazi official testified that after his boss had approved it he was one who physically took it to the Hotel Pennsylvania and handed it over to the publisher that night in september 1941 when the prosecutors already knew that guy was in there. Pretty good case, right . The prosecutor who collected that testimony from the nazi officials came back to the u. S. And reported to the u. S. Justice department that lake geneva, wisconsin, was hosting a magazine and in newspaper that were both funded by the nazi government, the cash parcels that were used to fund the magazine so lavishly were not, in fact, just flying through the window on angels wings. They have been delivered by nazi officials working at the german consulate in new york. Prosecutor advised doj that it was his recommendation that at the very least the publisher who had testified about this gift wrapped parcels to the grand jury, he should be put on trial at the very least for perjury. And he was. He was put on trial for perjury. And doj did not take any chances with this case. They brought the nazi witnesses from germany to washington to testify in this case. The guy who admitted hand delivering the cash, the guy who admitted to proving the cash to live, there were brought to tesla at the trot and this was core to the substance of the case. The jury was to consider basically which is more likely, that this kind of door number one, this progerman, prohitler, inexplicably lavish expense of next was funded by random anonymous gift wrapped parcels of money thrown at the windows, or door number two, was a more likely it was by the German Government when two officials of that government admit that it was them . Funded by magic leprechauns, or funded by nazis who admit they did it. Which is it . The jury chose door number one. Must be leprechauns. They acquitted the publisher of the magazine of perjury charges. The jury said they did not believe he lied when he explained to the grand jury his story about the gift wrapped parcels of cash and random guys just handing him thousands of dollars on the streets and walking away without a word. They decided that was real. First of all, this is a true story. This happened in march, the ty was march 1947. The reason the jury acquitted this guy is because the defense convinced the jury that the nazi witnesses must have lied in their testimony. According to the defense nazis must have been tortured by the americans when they were questioned in germany. It was only because they were tortured that they gave this false testimony falsely claiming that the German Government had funded this magazine. Now, there is no evidence and all other than the defense claims that this happened here but as the defense, it worked. The magazine guy but he was acquitted. And if you widen the lens a little bit you can see why that defense might have worked. As a set the trial was held in march 1947. For a couple of month before that in january and february of 1947 newspapers in the United States, dozens of newspapers including pristiq papers like the New York Times have been running story after story after story about accusations that nazi prisoners were being abused in american custody in germany. Nazis were being tortured by american interrogators in germany. The line was that the americans were behaving worse than the gestapo ever did. They were giving these nazi war crime to sentence the third degree at accusing them of all sorts of thinks he never did and exacting false confessions on them by thirddegree tactics. Those accusations were false. Americans were not doing that to german prisoners, but the allegations were very scandalous. They got a lot of play in the press at the time. Those false accusations of nazi prisoners being abused have been invented in germany by pronazi defense lawyers defending iqs german war criminals. I say they were pronazi lawyers because they invented these allegations not just you try to get their clients off the hook, it was part of a broader strategy. They were trying more broadly to rehabilitate the image of the nazis, trying to discredit the americans and the allies, trying to make it seem like allies and the nazis were all equally bad. Was victors justice, just that the germans had lost and said they were now getting a bad rap. In the most sinister and formulation, and this was argued not just in german but also by americans are at home, the most formulation of this argument, the claim was that Jewish American investigators and interrogators were inventing terrible claims about germans out of spite. Jewish american servicemen were out to get german soldiers for revenge because of what the germans had done to the jews, and just because the germans were christian and jews were terrible to christians. Answer the accusation was under cover of the u. S. Military, jewish gis were torturing innocent germs for the own sadistic satisfaction, and that was all complete bowl, but German Defense lawyers and American Defense lawyers sympathetic to the nazi defendants, they all advanced these claims and accusations were amplified by the conservative press here in america and by americans at home including some americans serving in the United States senate. There were trying to get political advantage out of it by attacking the army by attacking the administration. By aligning themselves with the scandalous false claims. And it will contribute in that moment in time in sort of late 46 into 47 so this astonishing run of commutes sentences and the fact of pardons for convicted nazi war criminals in germany. Even though there really wasnt any evidence that americans have been brutalizing nazi prisoners. The accusations worked. After months of those false allegations circulate in the press in congress, it helped collapse some of the nazi war prosecutions in germany, and this prosecution of this weird nazi funded magazine from lake geneva, wisconsin, that prosecution in march 1947 it contributed to its collapse. On the part for the same reason. These false claims the poor nazis mustve been mistreated by terrible american interrogators gorgeous out to get them. This deception to try to rehabilitate the image of the nazis and smear the United States, particularly to smear Jewish Americans. Its a really ugly story. And in the moment, and march 1947 it was this big embarrassing courtroom loss for the Justice Department. The magazine guys who had conspired with the germans who are taking orders from berlin who had so obviously been on the german payroll, they absolutely got away with it. There additur went on to a long career at readers digest, after running this of the magazine for the nazis. By the end of his long was retired and writing genteel racist books about sailing to tropical islands. Still get them today on ebay. The ride was convicted as an agent for the japanese, he did a short prison since and then went on to a long influential career of the american hard right promoting american support for apartheid and later holocaust denial. The nazi funded propaganda operation that operated in lake geneva, wisconsin, in that rich, wellconnected, deeply antisemitic down, that just disappeared from history. You can buy yourself a 35 million manchin there today with a separate house for your train set. The prosecutor though who uncovered all of this got this evidence of rotted back to america, what happened to him is he was fired by harry truman. Did i read the room wrong . [laughing] im okay . All right. When this prosecutor had gone to germany and question nazi officials about the work been done in the United States, the americans, they find the americans. Ma plans with against the risk of it. That prosecutor came back to use with a pretty good understanding of how nazi germany had operated inside our own country. He came back with a list of americans are bit on the german payroll or who ive been working with them. And on that list of americans were two doesnt serving u. S. Senators and members of congress. And on that list of serving senators was a democratic u. S. Senator who was a very close friend of president truman. He had been friends with them when President Trump was in the senate himself, and that your 1946 president truman had openly endorsed and campaigned for precisely one democratic senator who is up for reelection, and it was his friend, the senders name was Burton Wheeler. That prosecutors report on what he discovered in germany when he had learned from captured nazis brought back to the u. S. , report was submitted to the attorney general whose name was tom clark would go on to be a Supreme Court justice. The attorney general appears to have told president truman that his friend senator wheeler was on the list of americans would work with the nazis inside the United States. Senator wheeler then went to the white house to pay president truman a visit. And we know from white house records at the time that they had a twohour oneonone meeting. At the end of that meeting that same night president truman summoned his attorney general and told them to fire the prosecutor, a guy who had written this Justice Department report, told the attorney general to bury the report and keep it secret, even though the prosecutor had previously been told it would be made public. The attorney general did so. Thats a night at midnight he fired the prosecutor. They were bank rolling pro fascist authors and publications, supporting violent fascist groups that stock piled weapons and planned to overthrow the federal government. And they had confederates inside the United States, including a large effort they ran in congress using nazi funds and nazi agents. And we now know that those members of congress were powerful enough, they had friends in high enough places that they used their own political influence to get themselves excused from accountability, to get the people who had found them out fired. So how does this help us in the National Security context today . Two points on that and then i will sit down. The first point is this, it would be great to know why president truman did what he did. Why fire that prosecutor . Why order the burial of that report on americans who had been working with nazi germany . We do not know the answer to that for sure because president truman never explained himself on this point and depending on how youre feeling about president truman at the moment, you can come up with a range of potential explanations very, very bad to not quite as bad. I think the worst case explanation is when that was offered by a crusading newspaper columnist who actually did break a lot of factual truths about the story at the time, but he also suggested in one of his columns that maybe president truman offered to have one fired because of a grudge because that prosecutor had a hand in corrupting the political boss in missouri to whom truman owed his start in politics. And i dont think theres any evidence to support that that was president trumans motivation. Ive listened to it and i dont think its there. But in the absence of any explanation to the contrary, that one did circulate in the press at the time, first withdrew pierson and widely, and leaving that out there not leaving a reasonable explanation that does feed peoples lowest suspicions about why the government takes the actions that it takes. Corruption is bad. The appearance of corruption is also bad in terms of breathing cynicism about our democratic form of government. Another slightly bad explanation, that he buried the report in order to protect his friend senator wheeler. This one i think theres strong support for. Senator wheeler was trumans friend. Senator wheeler had been up to his neck in the nazi scheme in congress and senator wheeler was all over that prosecutors report from germany and it was right after senator wheeler met with the white house for two hours that truman ordered the prosecutor fired. Senator wheeler advocated to the Justice Department that they fire another prosecutor who had been working on the same investigation, which would make this the second time senator wheeler had used his political influence to get a prosecutor fired from this case, a case in which he himself was in the cross hairs for something very bad. And its really bad that the Justice Department gave in to that kind of pressure that they did. And its really, really bad that senator wheeler used that kind of pressure in the first place. Its also really bad if president truman helped him do it. If president trumans friendship with senator wheeler is why he did what he did, why he fired that prosecutor and buried that report, thats a conclusion that does not reflect well on president truman. That said, theres also sort of a best Case Scenario that you could conjure for him. By late october of 1946 when truman had the prosecutor fired, the big marquee nuremberg trials just had come to an end. George kennon sent his long telegram about the global ambitions of the u. S. S. R and the need for the United States to contain soviet ambitions as a matter of existential, and maybe this wasnt the time to be prying open an ugly can of worms about us and the germans and americans with ties and sympathies on the nazi side, particularly americans in our government. It was shortly after world war ii, but we were armed to fighting communism in our first imperative what would soon be called the cold war, in which we wanted west germany to be on our side as an ally. Maybe that informed trumans decision as well. We dont know. We dont know because he never explained himself. We know from files at the Truman Library that the firestorm of press criticism over what truman did over him firing that prosecutor had resonance with the prosecutor and angry letters, and civic groups, disgust for the president that he stood up for wheeler, that he had fired the prosecutor, demands that president truman reverse his decision and let the reports be public. President truman never responded, never explained himself, he bore the firestorm and let it pass and maybe thats fine. Maybe thats fine if its one ephemeral scandal during a long presidency with a lot going on. One little firestorm that rages in the moment, but then ends. If you think of National Security challenges as one off challenges, if you engage each one as unique, as a product of its time as inexorably tied to contemporaneous context, let it blow up, do not explain it if you dont have to. Maybe 80 years down the road at the conference of the Truman Center for national policy, maybe in admittedly weird speech some nerdy american journalist may be looking for help for history today. Maybe 80 years down the road our country will once again be contending with hard questions about whether its in the National Interest to criminally investigate and prosecute high ranking, influential political figures. Maybe we will once again be contending with questions about whether a politician steeped in scandal and voted out of office, which Burton Wheeler was in 1946, maybe we will be contending with whether that politician should be seen as punished enough by his political loss or whether it would serve justice and the National Interest to put him on trial for serious alleged crimes even after he left office. Maybe 80 years down the road, well be contending with questions of the propriety of Justice Department and hostile powers involving themselves with political contests and in our country. Maybe 80 years down the road, we will be facing what seemed like new hard questions about how much the public should be allowed to know about those investigations. And what we should do with the report to the attorney general laying out the findings of such a congressional investigation into a foreign power, interfering in our elections and with our politics. When the Justice Department under roosevelt and under truman contended with ultra right american zealots and paramilitary groups bent on overthrowing the u. S. Government and members of congress who are sympathetic to them [audience yelling] coming to a subset newsletter near you. [cheers and applause] as i was saying, when the Justice Department under roosevelt and truman contended with ultra right zealots and Para Military group bent on overthrowing the u. S. Government and members of congress sympathetic to them and didnt want them arrested or prosecuted, im sure in the 1940s they thought that was a oneoff and never would happen again. As such, controversies up to and including controversial orders by the president himself at the time, they went unexplained and one defended because im sure it seemed at the time those things were only of temporary interest, temporary importance. They didnt need to stand the test of time. They were like buildings constructed just for the worlds fair, who would ever think theyd still be standing, theyd still mean something to all of us all of these years later . If we have learned nothing else in National Security, let it be that there are no real oneoffs. There are no black swan events. There was no one american fight against fascism. There will not be just one president or expresident indicted. There have been many and there will be more hostile foreign governments that yes, interfered in our elections and in our politics and there have been many and there will be more americans eager to help with that. Principled Decision Making means not only responsibility to the full circumstances at hand in the moment, it also means theres a responsibility to the americans 80 years from now who will be contending anew, contending with Something Like this mess that were in today. At the risk of calling out the pitchforks and the torches in this room, i will leave you with this, dont be like truman in this case. If youre going to do something really controversial like firing that prosecutor and burying that redhot report, please explain yourself. Your country needs you to, if not, then 80 years down the road. Thanks. [applause] hi. Hi. I told you it was long and boring. No, no, im excited. When i heard a little bit of scuffling in the front i leapt out of my chair like i was going to tackle somebody. Times of crisis who your real leaders are. We have a couple of actually im just going to start off with our q a. Okay. And i have one that i want to start off with and then move over to the audience questions, so loved the speech, by the way, i did. Thank you. I always love whenever we bring in this type of discourse. So its far right extremism that weve seen in recent years and kind that translates to domestic terror attacks and feels in many way unprecedented. Many in the attacks are portrayed was lone wolf or one off incidents, but repeated rhetoric that we hear from politicians really points to a larger system of extremism. What does a country do to combat this type of violent extremism that seems increasingly ingrained in its own democracy . Well, i know that its been a discussion of a lot of the conference already today and i dont i certainly dont have all the answers, but i do think that the one thing that history offers us in terms of combatting that spectrum of extremism that youre talking about, it cant be just one thing. You know, if youre fighting, you know, global imperialistic fascism where youve got a fascist dictatorship with other countries, part of the response has to be war, right . If youre dealing with acts of violence in the United States, no matter, violence is a crime and needs to be prosecuted as a crime. If youre dealing with politicians for constitutional rights, that lends itself to violence, combat activity even when its advocating for terrible things, you advocate against it, you use speech against speech. So, there has to be a range, depending on what youre contending with, but i think it is helpful for us to talk about and to recognize the way these things interact, that violence and extremism the efforts to delegitimize the democratic form of government are things that feed each other and so you have to see each other and attack each other. I want to dive a little into something thats one of the talking about earlier, thats diversity, and well move to audience questions. Earlier today the importance of wide variety of voices in the room when making decisions relevant to National Security. Yeah, despite the evidence that diversity does, in fact, the diversity initiativeses in culture over perceived wokeness prevented some reforms from being actualized in government. What do you see as the most effective arguments in the work force and Decision Making . Its interesting. I think that the sort of antiyou know, antiwoke messaging on the right is completely unreconstructed from the earlier iterations that weve seen of this, and antiPolitical Correctness or, you know, just every eight years we have a new version of this. And the arguments are always the same, which is that you know, white people are the real victims and white people are put upon and christians are the real victims and christians are put upon and those arguments are the same going back, not just decades, but generations. And the best counter argument to that is reality. Youre not building the strongest work force you can or brain trust if youre only having part of the population to build it. That is true, true both in terms of gender and race, and religion and other forms of diversity is irreducibly true and in a way thats never disadvantaged in argument. Prouder of that in some ways and counter arguments are not novel always been made in some cases you can learn good techniques, borrow good political ads the last time we saw that, in the 90s, Political Correctness panic and 80s, affirmative action on the right. Its an old song. We have a few more minutes left for this. Can you see people in the audience . I cannot. I think i see charlotte climber. [laughter] but, yeah, i think we can go ahead and move because we have quite a large audience. Hi. Hello. Rachel, first, i want to thank you for having senator cavanaugh on your show for nebraska. For those of you dont know shes a state senator in nebraska who promised to filibuster through the entire session until the trans hate bill was down, and along with abortion bill and must pass bill and despite her efforts and colleagues efforts, it did unfortunately pass. My question is to have you brain storm, we seem to always be fighting rear guard movements and having heroic women stand up like Michaela Cavanaugh did, how do we be more active, we know where the right is, even on the left if we claim to be pro choice, if we do claim to be an ally of the Trans Community why are we not investing in the states, that trans hate is more than half of our state legislatures, how do we brain storm to get more attention to fighting these battles and getting the money and effort and resources in the states that do have a lot of Michaela Cavanaughs that dont get on your show. Thank you for that question. Im not a political strategist and i wouldnt take political advice from me if anything depended on it. I would say that just as an observation, that i sort of referenced that a lottery slogan, you cant win if you dont play. You cant win if you dont fight in these fights and i think that it does atreasury secretary it does atact energy and allies when you fight and occasionally win, you can triple down on that and so where youve got senator cavanaugh as in nebraska standing up and saying, articulating beautifully what it is shes doing and why, and making excellent arguments and winning the argument even though she lost the fight, its going to attract attention, its going to attract allies and attract resources, so i feel like those of us in the News Business who are covering this cultural war that were having as a country need to find the stories of people who are making good arguments and standing up, whether or not theyre likely to win. And theres a space for activism all over the country that does every single time you stand up and make a good argument, whether or not you win that fight, you are exposing people to reasoned linear thinking that may convince them, invite them, convince them, persuade them to do the same thing themselves. It takes leadership, i think. Thank you. Sorry, again not a strategist myself. Thank you so much for being a part of happy to have an opportunity to see you in person. Kind of fan girling right now. Im a brand new member from florida and theres a certain nameless political figure that is apparently ruining our great state. I have recently heard that there are some rumors that this certain politician is planning on running for president and also continuing to plan to stay governor. What do you think are some of the political implications if thats allowed to happen. The question about Governor Desantis staying governor as hes running for president. Just an a pure matter of messaging it seems like a bad move to me. The sort of thing that you do when youre running, but you think youre going to lose, but you know. [applause] i dont know, well see. There is an interesting, its not exact parallel in the 1920s the politician who fdr was most worried about, excuse me in the 1930s the politician that fdr was most worried about was huey long, the populous governor of louisiana and assassinated in 1935 and fdr never got to find out if he was a contender for the presidency who was going to give him a run for his money. And huey long the dictatorial governor, he decided to go to washington he ran for u. S. Senator and ran the seat as senator and he won, and he was still the governor. And huey long had his office in the State Capitol and convened the state legislature and thats one of the things that american fascists most loved about huey long, he had no apologies about grabbing hold of every lever of power available to him and never let them go or let any mores, or laws, that would actually hold him back. That unabashed desire to accrue maximum power without limits is a bad sign in a boyfriend, and in a politician of any stripe. Preschool teacher with those instincts would be a bad teacher. I think its a character flaw. I think was a shortterm matter it teams like an insurance policy for him. We still have time for at least one or two more questions. Hey, rachel, how are you doing . Happy pride. So when Tucker Carlson was unceremoniously kicked off fox news he did this extraordinary segment of the history of demagogues with big microphones, kofflin, limbaugh, and i think so that communications in this country is broken, maybe irreparably broken. And where do we need to be more it for all of us. Thank you for watching that segment, i was really wound up about it. Part of the reason i tried to put that news in that context because i feel like its important for us to recognize that lots of different generations of americans, lots of different types of communications technology, lots of different media environments have produced terrible people who do lots of bad things for the country and we always have megaphones of different stripes and people who master them in ways that are malignant. And the answer, i think, is always the same way, its competition, but i dont think theres a way to regulate speech for Media Communications in a way that makes them safe. I think that within reason, you know, the First Amendment protects even terrible, terrible speech, again, within reason. And if youre worried in particular about whats happening in tv, we should develop and cultivate better talents who arent malignant on tv. The same goes for radio and tik tok and twitter and the other means by way people are having an impact. I just dont think there is magic. I dont think theres a key to unlock it. But, its also true that to the extent that there is a sort of fascist style in broadcasting in particular, its attractive and always works, you know . Its always associated in western countries with antisemitism. You need to have some sort of parasitic other who has ruined everything for the real people. Its often antisemitism. You need Sexual Orientation or others from the mainstream population lionized being blamed for decadence, and moral decay and the answer is always to compete and make sure that human beings get to speak on their own terms and for humanity for who they are because you cant reduce somebody to an insect or a parasite if you see them as a human and thats in our religious traditions and rhetorical traditions and traditions that call to the best of us. We have time for one more question. When you say that people get desperate and then it hurts everybody. We cant see it i have no idea how many hands are up. Hi rachel, they stated, also fangirling, my sisters, florida chapter really excited to have you here and i appreciate your very thorough reporting so thank you for that. I want to actually go back to your speech. You spoke a lot about politicians, you know, perpetrating or keeping ultra right ideas, persistent. And when i think about, i know a lot of times in this country we like to go back to world war ii and our role there and what we did to put the nazis on trial to really criminalize, as you said, the violence. And so what i actually was a fellow member who brought this to my attention as we were thinking about the current race issues that we deal with still and thinking about there are some, you know, the unwork theres a lot of work thats undone from a reconstruction era and how that has really started to it really hasnt been dealt with so now were still dealing with this idea, racism. Were not shocked, we feel it. What youre touching on here is Human Security in the National Security context. Its like something that its like my jam. If you could speak about that. Here in our country we didnt do the work necessary there and i recently learned that dr. King actually also had a Foreign Policy lens in his action or civil im flipping out because shes so like i got you, dont worry. Long story short if you could speak a little about that and as National Security professional how we can in our own spaces really start to peel that onion back because thats wellneeded. Its been needed for a long time. [applause] new for that question, yeah. You know, in as the nazis came to power in germany, one of the things they did is they sent a very promising young lawyer his name was heinrich krygier, and to the university. And he was here to research the law and write a book on american law, that was about race and citizenship because the germans, the nazi party looked at the United States as the biggest and most powerful country in the world that had race specific citizenship, where you were defined legally according to your race and the benefits and the responsibilities of citizenship were accrued to you on the basis of your, what was perceived to be your racial makeup and the nazis were very inspired by this and they used heinrich krygiers research in the book he wrote not just about american jim crow laws, but also about American Indian treaties and American Immigration policy, Asian Americans and native americans and laws. They used krygiers study as part of the basis of the nuremberg laws they unveiled in the 1930s that applied to german citizenship, that did not apply to the jews. They wrote them the way they felt they would stand up in court the way that it did in the United States courts with the jim crow laws. We gave them an idea there. And we fought them and won, we were right, they were wrong. At a fundamental level thats true, but a deeper level our own failures not only something we didnt deal with, its something that fueled the worst of what we then had to fight. And so, those kind of nuances about american history, that reality about what our inheritance what inheritances that weve offered to the world in the ways that our moral position in the world has bevels on its edges and isnt so clean. That to me is guiding in terms of not being too selfcongratulatory about these things and understanding that our work here at home should humble us, but also should be something that that is direct influence around the world. Thank you for that question, and its the National Security is the right way to look at it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. [applause] and thanks to everybody and again, loved the speech and i know that my dad will be totally geeking out at this moment for me. Thank you. For everybody were going to take a coffee break and join us for the podcast. [applause] please enjoy coffee and snacks in the foyer and well resume promptly in 15 minutes, again, promptly in 15 minutes at 3 05. [inaudible conversations]