Exists than the rest of the world combined than all. Society thinks of itself as being nonmilitaristic and i think in our essence we are. Preserves battlefield land to such a degree. Now our traditional view of the civil war was born on the postwar period. The reunification of our nation. Think about the fact in United States capital today are seven statutes to man supporting the rebellion against the federal government during the American Civil War. They dont do that in syria, libya. They do it here. Thats remarkable. Now there are lots of ways and the reconciliation scholars have shone is buried and incomplete in some areas and in some ways. How did that come to pass . Part of the answer is when you want to make up with somebody you find Common Ground. Place where you can both be comfortable. To some degree we did it on a national level. In the aftermath of the civil war few things everybody could agree with or most people and that was that the american soldier be he dressed in gray or blue was amazing phenomenon. In our search for Common Ground we found that ground literally on the battlefields. All of the great Battle Movement for preservation was initiated in the 1880s and 1890s when the veterans were at the height of their power in government and Industry Leaders and all of them. It was because battlefields ironically these places of conflict could become places of comfort. So americans always put tremendous emphasis on these places as a tool of reconciliation. The key part of the battlefield that came from the sons of confederate veterans stipulated the government would care for this battlefield and not detract from the glory. The dedication speech i helped managed. 1927, said the keynote speaker said we do more than dedicate these fields in memory of things that have passed. We consecrate them in the spirit of lee and lincoln to a more perfect understanding to south and north. For the next 50 years or so would faithfully carry out that charge. Where americans can come together and understand the war in a very human level. Just to give you a sense of how deep this tradition is and how its perceived by the public. A couple of years ago a colleague of mine were doing a tour in fredericksburg for three black churches. What do you mean . Are you going to get the trouble for doing this tour . You guys, are you allowed to do this . Now i share that story to point out how deep perception is. Celebrate the centennial of the american war. The 150th was a very different time. We have talked about that in our organization that thats our goal. What in 50 years has changed that weve gone from celebrating to consciously and in a reflective way commemorating this. I think there are a lot of things. One is since 1963 and many years that is my math doesnt add up 40 some odd years weve been at war 24 years. Theres no other period of American History that approaches that. Were tired of it. The late, great, Jerry Russell will be an advocate for battlefield preservation. Many of you know could argue against it. He said and it applied his view but it applied very well to the centennial period. This rests upon all americans having a chairshared language and a shared culture. Thats one version. Common understanding. Of course, the obvious question is it white southerners . Was it northern abolitionists. Whos memory do we pick . Prior to the centennial that was an easy question. Because history to some degree always reflects those who possess who are in power. Of course since the beginning of the centennial the dynamics of our political conversation, the dynamics of power within our society changed dramatically. Womens rights movement. I think most of us are glad. Its an important part of the story. The Civil Rights Movement of course. So it goes on. New scholarship. Scholarships with job of academics is to agitate us all and provoke us, and they do. They challenge us. They ask questions. Some of it we dont like. Some of it makes us feel a little bit uncomfortable or unstable. Have pretty convincingly shown us that many the cultural assumptions about the war, the simplities that we cherish were purposely shaped in order to help the nation achieve reconciliation. Slavery was not benign. We treated our slaves well. We often heard that. Ive heard that in my career. Weve all heard that but we know that simply not true nor was it on its last legs in virginia in 1860 or 1861. The emancipation proclamation was not meaningless. Grant was not simply a butcher. Lee was hardly devoid of political fun. Lincolns views on slavery evolved as the war progressed. Slaves did not standby loyally rooting or some have suggested fighting for southern independence confederate victory. All these things have been changed. Most of them have been demonstrated to be far more complex than the simplicities we once embraced. Some of them the that is what americans do. We challenge each other to be better. To be better in the present and we challenge each other to see our history as well. Sometimes that challenge comes from think tanks and people sitting this big towers. Or in the houses of congress or the white house. Just as often it comes from the people themselves. It is this process of constant challenge that renders what one generation believes insufficient for the next. Its always been so and it always will be so. Content as we might be with our perspective on certain issues today our grand children 50 years from now will look back and say just as we look back on those state troopers at the Edmond Pettus bridge or a dozen moments in American History what were they thinking. This process of challenge and revision and improvement is what america does. Its noisy, its raucous. Its sometimes painful. Argument and failure and discord are every bit as much part of the American Fabric as success, virtue and community. Its conscience will never be calmed. From the first day to this day. So, in 50 years since the centennial we have changed. We should not be surprised by that. In the 50 years going forth for those of you here for the by centennial well have a different conversation. Youll wonder what were they thinking. Here is another question. Why do we argue over whether or not slavery provokes succession and thus the American Civil War. Theres a historical topic where theres a wider span of opinion than that in question and a louder volume of discourse than over that question. This is a question from 150 or 160 years ago. Why do we argue about it now . If you roll back time to the succession debates of 1860 and 1861 and sat down with the delegates of the Virginia Succession Convention and said to them, you know, we know what youre doing. It has nothing to do with slavery and they would have said, what. Because at the time, of course, they said it had something to do with slavery. Not everything to do with slavery but something to do with slavery. After the war, i would suggest to you that the mainspring and the answer to this question or an answer to this question as to why we are is rooted in our very very personal connection. How many of you related to par tis participants in the war. Probably 60 of you. How many are related to a confederate confederate . Most all of you are. And, so when adelia donovan in 1902 stood before her groups annual convention and declared what lies before us is not only loyalty to memories but loyalties to principles but the vindication of the men. If you want to google that statement by stephen d. Lee it appears online last time i checked more than 8050 times. John gordon one of the great kind of postwar romantics of the civil war would write the unseemly things that occur should be forgotten or at least forgiven. Those things should be forgotten. You see by these, its very complex story and were simplying it here because we only have 45 minutes or so. Youll pardon me for engaging in some simplicities myself. That search focused on the common virtues at northerners and southerners shared which are most commonly shared. It even extends in former heritage of defense for the sons of confederate veterans said admonishing the park service we dont need to give visitors an entire history so they come away with an idea that one side is civil. Even today. I would suggest its because as this room evidences so Many Americans have not just an intellectual or scholarly connection but a personal connection to the American Civil War. If slavery caused the war what does that say about your an ancestors. It makes many people uncomfortable. I would suggest to you we ought to be at a point in our National Development where we can see that the deeds of our fore bearers are not always a testament. Indeed oddly not to see those deeds rather as a testament on the morals of their time. I think all of us hope as we sit here today and ponder our grand children and great grandchildren thinking back upon us. As a testament on us as individuals. Rather as a testament in our time. So, another question. You can start squirming any second. Or vj lawyers from new york city. The Union Soldiers marched into farmville. Let me put the question differently. I see shaking or noddings of heads. Did the confederates who rushed on to the field at gains mill or who held the stone wall in fredricksburg, did they fight to preserve slavery, to perpetuate. I dont see anybody offering up any opinion in terms of shaking or nodding their heads. Rons heard it. Patricks heard it. Youll hear Something Like this. My great great grandfather he didnt own slaves. He didnt fight to preserve slavery. He fought to defend his home his way of life and the community and state. The civil war wasnt about slavery. Youre wrong to tell people that it was. You had that happen, weve all had that happen. We had that happen probably a couple of times a month if not more. What do you say . Oh, yeah, the war was about slavery. Your grandfather fought to preserve slavery. Its not likely to receive, well, its likely to receive a letter to a congressman more than anything. Theyre great, great grandfather from woodstock virginia who served the second virginia infantry infantry, for example. Most resume their ancestors did not fight, were not motivated. They didnt march off to war saying we need to keep them. Most people who attend to believe that or believe that about their ancestors, many of them might be right. That is we have done a very poor job in our nation of making a distinction between the nation and the soldiers who fight. We have in america to a degree in many ways thats astonishing allowed the personal motivations of why soldiers fight to define the National Purpose to which they fought. Soldiers go do war choose to enlist and carry a weapon and enter places of danger for a million reasons. A million reasons. Most of them noble. Nations go to war for a list of reasons far narrower than that. That list often bears very little resemblance to a list of reasons. One of the things we have not done particularly well was to make the distinction, that distinction. Nations go to war for very special reasons for policy and purpose. How many years ago couple years ago i was doing a program and we were talking about if legacies of war. A man stood up, he was an africanamerican gentleman. He doesnt see the war through the lens of personal connection. He sees the confederacy through that lens of national the confederacy fought to sustain it fought between itself and the rest of the union. Thats what brought on the war, the differences. Those differences are clearly laid out in statement, policy and practice. The confederate constitution, for example. What is the difference between the United States constitution and the confederate constitution . Theres a sixyear term president. Dont think they went to war over that. Major difference is the issue the approach the National Commitment to the sustenance of slavery. There were many other characters, social regional distinctions that fueled into this. When someone who doesnt have the personal connection to the war stands back and looks and they see the confederacy, they dont see a swarm of young men fighting to defend their homes. The government committed to the sustenance of White Supremacy and slavery in america. Not all people see it that way but some of them day. Getting back to this question of policy. Those Union Soldiers who marched into town in april of 1865, racist Union Soldiers who might hated black people, some of them, they marched for freedom. Not because they were motivated by that but because the government that they were fighting for had established that as one of the purposes of the war. Our job is to help people untangle these tangled things. Remembering or creating a memory of your life or of our national life. While remembering certain things can be painful and some can be hurtful, forgetting can be just as painful. What youve seen over the last 50 years in an effort by this nation challenged by people within it to not forget so much. And to understand how so Many Americans might see the war differently than you or i might see it. That puts the Parks Service in a very interesting place because we have always been the keeper of the nations memory especially as it relates to the civil war. We facilitate this dialogue of reconciliation, of virtue. People come to our parks not to be provoked and angered but to be inspired and to learn. And to understand why they ought to be grateful to be americans and why they ought to be grateful to the americans that proceeded them. I think we do a pretty good job of them, but here is the question. Are we seeking truth. Can we do both . Some people would argue that our role disqualifies. Some people have been a little bit uncomfortable with the role we play in a facilitating connection. They recognize, as i think we have increasingly so recognized that part of the work that weve done involves a good deal of forgetting. You dont need to kind of coddle people. Just throw it out there and do it. They work on negotiated ground. Think about the Historic Sites we manage. Lbj. Do you think when lady bird was alive with park staff didnt say i wonder what was mrs. Johnson was. All of these places have come to us 9 11 directly often times. Does that put us in a different place than the historians and academia . Absolutely. Can we do our jobs better . Absolutely that. Can america distinguish between confederates and the confederacy confederacy. Can we honor confederates and talk honestly about the con fed confederacy at the same time . It applied two things, be perpetuation for a time and the destruction of the union. Can you lament the demise of the confederacy and still love america . Its a milestone moment along americas meandering Journey Towards freedom justice and equality. Its the foundation from which our nation emerged on to the world stage as a world power. Its the greatest demonstration of both the failure and durability of democracy. It is perhaps the vivid reflection of our virtues, successes and failures all wrapped up into one. These are all things that have shaped the lives of every american and millions and millions of people beyond our nations boundaries have lasted 150 years. In our relentless quest for simplicity an our selective memory that exists on history that flatters or inspires us Many Americans and maybe america at large today fail to see the immense legacy of the civil war in our lives and in our culture. Too many people are interested if the civil war. Problem is not enough are interested in the civil war. Every american should be able to find a gateway into this story for engaging the civil war as part of not only the National Experience but the frame work of their own lives. Yet for 100 reasons many of them within our control they do not. Lets return as i conclude here to that list of names, the civil war, the war between the state, the war of northern aggression, the war of rebellion, the war for southern independence, the second American Revolution the war for emancipation. Each of these names speaks a certain perspective on the war. Its easy to see why so many southerners would see the war as war of northern aggression. I get that. We all get that. Or the war for southern independence. Its easy toe sigh why former slaves might see it as the war for emancipation or northerners as the war of the rebellion. I think if you think about i, you can see that. Some might see this as a bother bothersome debate. Each is a potential gateway for americans to engage in this story. This world changing story. We throw barriers large and subtle into this history. We view the labels these names as not able to stand side by side but mutually exclusive. If the war is war of northern aggression cant also be war for emancipation but it was. It was all those things. You draw strength in those risked an gave all for our communitys protection our Nations Protection and we only pray as we look back on now that were worthy of their sacrifice. Its improved as well in both large and small ways. We learn from their triumphs and mistakes in ways they never could. This tide of history that we ride that carries us here to this very spot today and to this conversation at this moment this tide of history with its greatness and all its shortcomings all mixed up and intermingled gets carried forth. Thank you. [ applause ] thanks for the thought provoking talk. You put out a lot of questions to the folks here. They might have a couple of questions for you. If you do if youd come to the microphones in the aisle, state your name and your question. We got about five minutes for questions then well wrap it up. William trout from williamsport, maryland. That was a very inspiring talk. Thank you very much. Kind of went there and went around the bush and around barn chasing it. You didnt answer the one question we all want. Are we still fighting the civil war . Are we still resolving the issues that the war evolved upon. Absolutely. Pick up a newspaper today. I dont know whats in it. I guarantee you in the newspaper today theres an article that raises questions about the appropriate role of the federal government in our lives. If you pick up a newspaper on march 15th 1791, i guarantee youll find an article somewhere in there about whats the appropriate role in our lives. Only once did that discussion collapse. I think that as we look a t the flow of our lives and how we resolve issues as a nation, its important, really important to understand how we have failed to do that in the past and what the consequences are which is in my mind at least another reason for all of us to not only be interested in the war ourselves but try to find a way to engage in friends and neighbors and people you dont even know in this discussion. I will say that the civil war was not over in my life, about 20 years ago we started going to some nascar races. We went to richmond virginia. Given a nascar flag with the checkered flag on the bottom but the Confederate Flag on the top. Went to New Hampshire speedway and decided we were going to fly the flag in the parking lot and we were told we werent welcome. If we flew that flag it would be torn down and burned. Im not so sure thats true but there would be people who would object to it. I think americans are generally very respectful of expression and i think that generally speaking people who are made uncomfortable by the Confederate Flag arent tearing them down but they are expressing themselves for sure. To see that flag to many of you as a symbol that your ancestor walked on famous fields, gave their lives, all of those things. We run into trouble im all in favor of arguing about these things. When we run into trouble is when we try to insist that Everybody Needs to see this the same way. Its not going to happen. Its just not going to happen. I think once we figure out why when lincoln got emancipation through but he didnt think the next step out, civil rights. Of course, there was sellma and ferguson today. Are we still fighting the civil war . I think we are. That tide of history. Youre absolutely right. Yes. These will be the last two questions. Craig swain leesburg virginia. You made mention that some of the Common Knowledge that we are refine and revised over the years one of them you briefly leaded to the myth of the monolistic block of southern white soldiers or civilians you begin to start looking at reconstruction and opportunity to do something similar in regard to the study of that period. I dont know theres any way that someone who is engaged in and looked at not just the kind of memorial aspects of it but the intellectual aspects cant but look through. Reconstructionists, maybe, if you think the civil war is the contentious issue, wait until we Start Talking about reconstruction. That was craig swain who runs one of the best civil war blogs in the country. Its a great place to go. Yes, sir. I never thought i would live to see the day when thousands of americans in new york city were marching this summer chanting what do we want, dead cops. When do we want them . Now. We are a very divided country today with racial relations. President obama has weighed in on ferguson. Hes weighed in on selma and on Trayvon Martin in florida. I wonder how the Parks Service feels about his lost opportunity to unite us by going to vicsburg or going to gettysburg or appomattox next week and celebrating the 260,000 let me change that, 360,000 dead Union Soldiers who died for the National State of policy of freeing the slaves that they never met . Two things. First offer, i dont have the slightest, the National Park service doesnt have a mind of its own. Its a collection of people with a lot of their own minds. Secondly, the president of the United States is my boss. I would be a little bit hesitant hesitant, no matter what my opinion was to enter into that discussion with you in this setting. When im off my uniform and walking the streets ill be glad to offer up my opinions on that but not here and now today. I hope youll excuse me for that. My name is a. J. Douglas. I hope you dont mind me doing this. Its kind of long but id like to say i dont really think though civil war was completely about slavery. Why . Because throughout history people dont really care about black people that much. I dont really mean to say that way but for example the shooting in paris, massacre this paris. Same day nobody 5,000 africans were kill bid the same organization that were fighting today. Didnt happen. Wasnt on the news. The point im making is, question im confederacy won the war, how would things have changed in the country . Because either way, union won, confederacy won, theres still slave owners on the back of our money. So if slavery was the object to really get rid of it did we really do that . Because it still resonates there. Well, theres theres a number of issues that you raised. I cant tell you what would have happened if the confederacy had won the war. There have been books written about that. Theres lots of speculation, and i dont really have hig toanything to add to that conversation. But your question is a perfect example of why, how this tide of history just still engulfs us its all absolutely connected. No question the civil war is about many things. Many of the issues that we hear about, the tariff, and National Banking system and, you know, economic policies, all of that. All of those are certainly part of the whole thing, but they have also been part of the discussion from the very beginning. But there was one issue that lit it that spark, that turned this discourse about the proper role of federal government in our lives into a war. And that issue was, i think, inarguably slavery that did that. Now you equate the issue of race and americas comfort with race with its view on slavery. Theyre obviously closely related. But the great impact of the American Civil War was not a giant stride forward in race relations, but a giant stride and new direction as it related to government policy with respect to race. The hearts and minds of people move slower oftentimes than constitutional amendments reconstruction acts. All of these things. So there are two issues at work here. You know, people often point to the emancipation proclamation or the 13th amendment or 14th amendment or 15th amendment. Its still a problem. But the great watershed of the civil war is that it pointed the make if terms of its institutions and policies in a new direction that it had never taken before. All else followed, haltingly, slowly loudly boisterously, sometimes unproductively, but it follows on the last sentence, still follows today. From thank you. Thank you. Thank you all. [ applause ] here are some of our featured programs for this weekend on the cspan networks. On cspan 2s book tv, on afterwords, president of americans for tank reform dwroefr nordquist says that americans are tired of the tax system. And susan butler on stalin. Allies during world war ii and their unexpected partnership. On lectures and history Jennifer Murray on how civil war veterans reunions have changed from the reconstruction era to present. And sunday afternoon at 1 00, American History tv is live commemorating the 150th anniversary of the confederate surrender and end of the civil war. Each week american artifacts takes you to museums and Historic Sites around the country. In 1865, general lee met general great in the village of appomattox courthouse and surrendered his army. While confederate armies were still active in the field, the surrender of the south ace most potent fighting force effectively ended the civil war. Next, we tour appomattox courthouse historical park to learn more about the events surrounding that day. Welcome to appomattox historical park. Now were standing in front of the historic clover hill tavern. This is the oldest building in the village, built in 1819. This area was called clover hill before it became appomattox courthouse in 1845. This was one of the later counties formed. And they took parts of the four surrounding counties and formed appomattox county in 1845. They had slaves working on tobacco farms. As of 1860, about 120 people lived here. People would stop at the tavern as they traveled along the stage road. The courthouse was finished maybe in 1847. There was a jail that burned during the war and a new jail was built across the road. Interestingly enough, when people come to appomattox courthouse, they learned in their schoolbooks that the surrender took place at appomattox courthouse. Well, it did in the town of appomattox courthouse, but the actual surrender took place at the home of wilmer mcclain. The difference in writing, if youre saying the town of appomattox courthouse, court house would be two words, but if youre talking about the building courthouse would be one word. And this is where one of the most significant events with the military took place in spring of 1865, april of 1865 with lees sur ep der. Now were going to walk down the road. It effectively ended lees retreat. We are standing on the historic richmond stage road. Many people wonder why general lee was even heading towards appomattox courthouse after leaving richmond and petersburg on april 2nd, 1865. He was going to concentrate his army at amelia courthouse and head south and link forces with general johnston in north carolina. General grant was a bit different than former generals of the union army and he blocked general lees line of retreat thus general lee had to continue further west searching for rations and hoping to get around grants army. The next place general lee could gather supplies was about three miles from us here at appomattox station. Supplies had been brought over from lynchburg to feed the army. Hundreds of thousands of rations, new uniforms and equipment, and thats where theyre heading for on april 8 after leaving Cumberland Church on the night of april 7. General lees advance is led by reuben lindsey walker. They go into camp about a mile from appomattox station about 2 miles from us on the afternoon of april 8. And general custers cavalry advances upon that station and captures the supplies. Then encounters general reuben lindsey walkers reserve artillery and fight for about four hours the battle of appomattox station. A very unique battle in in the civil war, because its mounted cavalry attacking unsupported artillery. No infantry involved other than cannon ooers had picked up weapons the battle lasted for about four hours from the afternoon until after dark. And in the end, general custer overruns the remaining guns of walker. Captures about 25 canon 1,000 prisoners and it 00200 wagons. They continue into the village here where they are repulsed at the eastern edge of the village and during the night, the federal cavalry form on the ridge west of town. During the night general lee has a council of war. And asking should they surrender or should they try to break out. And its determine thed they will try to break out on the morning of april 9. They file off to the right and left into these fields. Theyre going to attach that ridge. Theres a federal cavalry under smith. The attack begins after 7 30 that morning and they successfully drive the federals off that ridge doing a left wheel. But hardmarching infantry from the army of the james the 24th corps and a division of troops from of the United States colored troops had covered over 30 miles on april 8. And they come up and close the road back down and begin to push back into the appomattox river valley. Federal troops are also coming from the south. And off further to the south and east is general custers cavalry. Behind general lee, about 4 miles from here is general mead. And general lees army is effectively surrounded. White flags are sent out to stop the fighting. And over that course of the week of fighting in the Appomattox Campaign lees army had dwindled from 60,000 men to 30,000 men. Here at appomattox courthouse. He had lost half of his army. And he determined it was time to meet with general grant and surrender his forces, and they did that here at the mcclain farmhouse in 1865. Were now inside the parlor of the home of wilmer mcclain, appomattox county resident who moved here in the fall of 1862. Le general lee and general grant corresponded for over three days, and finally after being effectively surrounded here, general lee wished to have a meeting with general grant to surrender his army. Lee spent Lieutenant Colonel marshal to find a place to meet. And mcclain offered his own home. Lee arrived about 1 00 and sat here at this marble top table. General grant arrived at about 1 30. And when he came in he sat at the oval wooden table here. The two had met each other in the mexican war, and that was their first discussion. They talked about the mexican war for quite a while. And the conversation got quite pleasant. And general lee reminded general grant of the mature of thise ureuree ureure nature of this meeting and asked grant to put his terms in writing. Grant sat down and put his terms in writing. The federal officers were allowed to be paroled and go home. He was going to allow officers to keep their sidearms and personal baggage, and general lee later requests if their men can keep their horses. Grant initially says no but thinks about it for a minute and says that he understands that most of these men are Small Farmers and they could use those horses, and he will not rewrite it into the terms but will allow the confederalte forces to keep their horses if they have one. The terms are read over by general lee and given to general grant. General grant calls out bowers. He is nervous he botches the job and turns it over to elig parker. He actually writes out the formal terms for general grant. General lees staff officer is Lieutenant Colonel charles marshall. He writes the acceptance letter. They exchange those letters. Thats how the surrender is affected, the exchange of the letters. They both do not sign one document. Over the course of the meeting, general grant introduces officers of his staff to general lee. Some of them general lee knows very well such as Seth Williams who was lees adjutant. Another interesting aspect of general grants staff, there was a young captain named Robert Lincoln on his staff, and he, of course was the son of president Abraham Lincoln and he was here in the room. Another interesting participant in the ceremony was a, or at least maybe not a participant but a witness to this ceremony was this rag doll of lula mcclain, the youngest daughter of wilmer mcclain. It was sitting on the horsehair couch when the officers came in, and they moved it to the mantle during the meeting. After the meeting, some of the officers took the doll off the mantle and began tossing it around. Captain thomas moore of general phillip sheridans staff took the doll home with him as a war souvenir. In the 1990s, the family wanted the doll to come back to appomattox courthouse, and it is now on display in the park visitors center. The meeting lasted about an hour and a half. It was said to be a gentlemans agreement. General grant was very generous in the terms. When the end, when general lee says he has nothing to feed his men, general grant orders rations to be sent to feed lees army. The men shake hands, general lee departs, goes out into the yard, calls for his horse traveler and rides back to the confederate army, bearing the news of his surrender. The gentleman who owned the house had married a wealthy widow from manassas and thats where he lived at the time of the first major engagement. He decided to move south he could not conduct business in northern virginia. He got into sugar speculation. He was not a farmer as many people will put out. He got into sugar speculation. And this area was convenient, because he could access the south Side Railroad and make trips to the south to deal in that sugar. They owned the house here at the time of the surrender. Then in 1867 they are not able to keep up with the payments on the house, and the house is sold, and the family moves back to northern virginia. After the house is sold, the ragland family owns it for a time. But in the early 1890s, a group of Union Veterans have a plan. Theyre going to start