Transcripts For CSPAN3 Hearing Examines Rise Of MS-13 Crime Gang In U.S. 20170526

Interesting description of a problem that i think plagues so many inner cities and from my standpoint really one of the contributing factors of this is one of the Top Priorities of this committee is securing our borders. This is what i think our 25th . 25th hearing on some aspect of border security. Now, the title of the hearing was border and security the rise of ms13 and other Transnational Criminal Organizations. Reading through the testimony, it looks like were going to be focusing an awful lot on ms13 which is obviously in the news today. And ill let the witnesses tell the stories, but it is kind of interesting the history of ms13. Originally formed out of immigrants coming from el salvador, the war there in california, Southern California area. And then based on problems, those members being deported to Central America, the organizations grew and tliefd in Central America, now were seeing them come back sometimes in the form of unaccompanied children. I did send a letter yesterday as a result of information we received from a whiffle blower i sent to mr. Chot lloyd, the director of the house of refugee and reset willment. And yesterday we were informed by a whiffle blower of a customs and Border Protection document from july of 2014 describe ang incident. This is at the height of the surge of unaccompanied children arriving at our border and the documents appear to indicate the cpb april preened htd the selfidentified ms13 gang members at the border. The incident report dated july 5th, 2014, basically stated that officers assigned to the npc, thats the that gal lous Placement Center, identified multiple admitted ms13 gang members. Another document goes on ton quote all identified gang members at the Placement Center have been placed in the appropriate Placement Center and are no longer being held at the mpc, the that gal lous Placement Center. 16 identified juvenile gang members were transferred to Placement Centers around the country including shan nan doe valley in virginia, staff secure in washington, nova staff secure in virginia, the swk maca staff secure in texas, childrens village new york, and Army Training center in oklahoma. Now the office of refugee reset will meant, orr within the department of health and Human Services was responsible at that point for the care and custody of the children apprehended. Why do you point that out . Weve got a broken system. It was in 2002 in the operation of Homeland Security we split split out the responsibility where now cpb apprehends, process, then turns unaccompanied children over to hhs. And weve gotten very good at apprehend, processing and dispersing. Which for my standpoint has just fueled this rise in unaccompanied children coming to the boarder. Certainly during the last administration, just so i understand what were talking abouting when we say unaccompanied children, because i know immediately people think of little children, 7, 8, 9, ten years old. Here are the facts out of 188,000 unaccompanied children apprehend from twifl through 2016, that includes from Central America as well as mexico because its only broken out with that so its not just Central America, 68 of those unaccompanied children were 15, 16, or 17. In other words, prime gang age. By the way, 68 are also men. Less than 18 were under the age of 12 or under. So the fact of the matter is, so many of the unaccompanied children are literally young men, prime gang age and now we have documentation from whiffle blower that cpb apprehended them, new they were ms13 gang members, and they process and they disperse them into our communities. So, again, i think the purpose of this committee is to highlight these problems within our government agencies, within our government laws and procedures, to make the public aware so we can actually keep this homeland safe. So, again, i appreciate the witnesses coming here to testify. Well describe the danger, the problems with ms13, the barbarity, and thats what this this committees all about is holding these hearings to raise that public awareness, lay out a reality so we can actually enact Public Policy to combat it and keep this homeland safe. With that ill turn it over to senator mccass skill. Thank you. And i want to thank the chairman forholding this hearing. Theres nothing more important than getting these criminals behind bars, nothing. And if if we have, in fact, in any way allowed criminals to come into our country, then there is complete agreement, i believe, on every member of this committee that we need to do everything we can to apprehend them and catch them. I want to begin by recognizing the three witnesses here today and such respect for what do you every day. I know firsthand from my time as a prosecutor that people that wear the uniform in Law Enforcement in this country go to work every day not thinking about themselves but thinking about what they can do to protect, what they can do to make sure that families are safe in their communities and they take a great deal of risk in doing so. So i know youre job is sometimes thankless and its easy for folks to criticize you, but i just want you to know from from the depth of my person how much i respect what you do every day. Gang violence is certainly a huge problem in this country and its tearing apart families and take the lives of way too many. They prey on the week, on the vulnerable, they provide a sense of family that many times young people have neverhood had and they do irrelevant represent per able damage not just to the lives of their victims but also to the communities where they live. Today were here to discuss one gang in particular, ms13, a gang that was started in st. Louis in the 80s and excuse me, in los angeles in the 80s and has since kp panhandled to Central America. You know, i want to recall the feeling of hopelessness i used to have when i was the prosecutor in kansas city and we had a huge gang problem. When we would be confronted with horrific violence that was gang inflicted, and we couldnt get anybody to talk. I remember sitting and crying with victims and explaining that if no one talks, no one goes to prison. And thats why these gangs are so insidious. Not only do they do violence, but they also by the way they commit violence they discourage anyone from ever speaking up in ways that can hold them accountable. And thats why im troubled that weve seen a recent trend in some places even fewer people are willing to come forward. In communities that are full of people who have come to this country looking for hope from another country. And i certainly want to protect our borders, i certainly want to secure our borders, but we also have to be cognizant that what we say and do has an impact on peoples willingness to come forward. And then you exacerbate that by the fact theyre going to come forward against gangs then we give you an impossible job to try to hold these gang members to the standards that we demand. And that is putting them in prison for as long as we can possibly put them in there and in some instances seeking the death penalty. So i because of my sensitivity about how hard it is to get these guys, i just want us to be very careful about documents that are released because sometimes information about individuals is very sensitive. Even documents that the committee got a hold of last night. These documents did not come from cpb, they came from a whistleblower when we want to encourage whistleblowers, but we also have to be very cautious if theres Sensitive Information in any of these documents that they have been fully vetted and that Law Enforcement in those communities who may be working investigations as we speak about some of these individuals, that theres nothing that in any way is released that could ever hafharm any of those investigations. Putting these people in prison is way more important than this hearing. So i have concerns that these documents were release sod quickly and that we didnt have a chance to even view the documents on our side of the aisle until they had already been released as now part of the Public Discourse on this issue. So i understand the concern and i share the concern, but i think weve got to be careful and cautious because at the end of the day weve got to make sure were supporting you. And that is the most important thing that we have to do. So i look forward to your testimony and i look forward to answering asking questions about the challenges you face in getting these gang members that are wreaking havoc in so many communities across the country. Thank you, senator mccaskill. It is the tradition of this committee to swear in witness sods if youd all rise and raise your right hand. Do you swear the testimony you will give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you god . I do. I do. I do. Please be seated. Our first witness is mr. Timothy sini. Sini. Sini, okay, sorry about that. Police commissioner sini serves a a Police Commissioner for Suffolk County in the state of new york. Prior to his appointment of commissioner he served as the isnt county skpek executive for the Public Safety in the same jurisdiction. Commissioner sini. Thank you very much and i want to thank the chairman, all the members of the committee to provide testimony today regarding ms13 in Suffolk County new york in ways in which we can Work Togethering to effectively rad indicate this gang from our communities. Just briefly, Suffolk County is new yorks fourth largest county situated some 20 miles east of new york city covering 911 square miles and 1,000 miles of coastline on the eastern end of long island. Suffolk is comprised mostly of suburban communities of approximately 1. 5 Million People. The Suffolk County Police Department is one of the 15 largest Police Departments in the country with approximately 2,500 sworn officers and approximately 1,000 civilian employees. Contrary to stop you. Is your microphone working or can we turn up the. Its the green button is on. Sure. Contrary to vent sentiments in the national media, thanks to the hardworking men and women of the Suffolk County Police Department, suffolk remains one of the safest countiesch its size in the United States. Presently crime is the lowest its been since weve been collecting reliable crime stat zikz in 1970 five. Dis despite these historic reductions in crime, weve experienced an increase in Gang Violence expected to ms13. Specifically since january 1, 2016, of the 45 homicides that occurred in Suffolk County, 17 of those are believed to be linked to ms13 which is approximately 38 of all homicides during that time period and since 2013, 27 murders in suffolk have been attributed to ms13. Suffolk county has approximately 400 identified ms13 gang members organized in cells called alcoholics. Many of these clicks has connections in neighboring counties. Active ms13 gang members are predom nait nantly male and range from the age of 16 to 29 and the median age of ms13 arrest tease is 18. In Suffolk County ms13 engages in a variety of criminal activity such as assaults, murder, drug dealing, extortion, robberies and burglaries. Intelligence indicates that many ms13 gang members hold wagepaying jobs and are not focused primarily on incomegenerating crimes such as drug dealing differentiating them from the typical street gang. Rather ms13 often engages in violence for the sake of violence. To increase the know the right of the gang and to cause communities to fear the gang and its members. In fact, in 2016, the most frequent reported crime committed by ms13 was assault. The signature weapon used by m sgs13 is the machete. As noted, ms13 members also commit murder often targeting members that they perceive as disrespecting the gang. For example in 2016, the gang members brutally beat two young girls to death in a suburban kulda sack. They were 15 and 16 years old. They were high school students. Shortly before her murder, kayla had a school yard argument with an ms13 gang member. In collaboration with the fbi long island safe street task force they arrested their murderers and theyre currently being prosecuted by the United States district Attorneys Office. In response to the heinous acts of ms13, the Suffolk County Police Department launched a gang retaliation act which has resulted in 213 ms13 arrests of more than 150 individual ms13 gang members. Our strategy is as follows. We collect a tremendous amount of intelligence on the gang with the specific objective of identifying ms13 gang members and hang outs and assign Police Officers to specific gang members to aggressively and relentlessly target the members and the locations and the locations where they frequent. This targeted enforcement suppresses crime, results in the collection of intelligence, and generates valuable evidence for federal prosecutions down the road. As we engage in this targeted enforcement, we are working hand in hand with our federal Law Enforcement partners to strategically select ms13 gang members for federal prosecution under the rico statute which is a very effective tool to dismantle gangs such as ms13. We recognize, however, that targeted enforcement as well as enhanced patrols not alope lead to the irrelevant rad occasion of ms13 from our communities at as we weed out gang members from our neighborhoods, we need to invest in schoolbased and communitybased programs to reduce gang recutement and enlistment. Ms13 preys on our most vulnerable, young people and if we do not provide the structure for these young people ms13 will. To this end we use intervention strategies such as custom notifications, call ins and we also work closely with our schools to identify atrisk children to be intervene and effective ways to prevent them from joining gangz or to assist them in getting out of a gang. One specific segment of our population, particularly vulnerable to gang recruitment is our unaccompanied children known as uacs. From 2014 through march, 2017, 4,624 uacs have been placed in suffolk countrity alone making it one of the largest recipients of uacs in the country. While the vast majority of these children are good kids seek a better life in the United States, theyre vulnerable because they are young, unaccompanied, adjusting to a new country, culture and language and seek a sense of belonging and some of them do not have the structure and support system in place to help them. We have seen a small percentage of uacs fall victim to gang recruitment. In some while the vast majority of uscs lead lawa biding lives, the vulnerable of these children creates a sense of recruitment for these children. The to highlight ways in which the federal government can further assist local governments on this critical Public Safety issue, i respectfully suggest the following. More federal prosecutors to prosecute rico cases against ms13 gang members. For example, we work with the Long Island Criminal Division of the United States Attorneys Office for the Eastern District of new york and they have only 11 line assists and four supervisors despite the fact that districts with comparable or smaller populations have significantly more ausas. If provided with sufficient ausas, the Suffolk County Police Department could launch a pilot pro granl in collaboration with the fbi and direct Attorneys Office could be screened for possible pros cuing. This would increase the number of federal prosecutions of ms13 gang members taking dangerous individuals off our streets and likely generate significant gelts due to the incentives in the federal system for defendants to cooperate with Law Enforcement. Second, improve intelligence sharing among Law Enforcement agencies throughout the country. Perhaps by creating a singular database with with information relating to ms13 gang members. This system could include automatic notifications to agency whens information is added regard ang individual whos of interest to that agency. Such a database would encourage multijurisdictional operations and allow local pris Police Departments to be more proactive in targeting ms13 gang members in our communities. Additional funding to social hotspot policing in areas of ms13 activity. Fourth additional funding for programs tied directly to the number of uacs placed in our communities as they are some of the most vulnerable to recruitment. And lastly improvements to the uac Program Including but not limited to increased screening and compliance monitoring of sponsors, notification of placement Ton School Districts and local government and increased funding for post Placement Services. In closing, i want to thank the committee for its time and its commitment to this very important issue as well as the opportunity to appear before it today. I look forward to working well, the commit teend all its members and its staff. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Commissioner in the our next witness is detective scott conley. Detective conley is the lead investigator for the Chelsea Police gang unit in chelsea, massachusetts. Detective conley has also has been serving the public for over 22 years, including serves as a Task Force Officer in the boston field office. Detective conley. Chairman johnson. Rag member mccaskill and distinguished members of the committee. Its my honor to address you today. My name is scott conley and ive been a member of the chelsea Police Department for over 22 years. Two provide context for my testimony today, i have included a brief biography. I would highlight that i currently serve as a detective with the chelsea Police Departments gang unit as well as being a Task Force Officer for the federal bureau of investigations north Shore Gang Task force which is funded by the federal safe streets initiative. Chelseas a city in Suffolk County massachusetts, directly across the river of the mystic river. As of 2017, chelsea had an estimated population of 42,828. It is also the second most densely populated city in massachusetts with a total area covering just 2. 5 square miles. Chelseas diverse, workingclass city, is one of only three massachusetts cities in which the majority of the population identifies as hispanic or latino. Chelseas residents enjoy a large and thriving Central American population. In 2014, our community as well as surrounding cities and towns experienced a significant increase in the number of teenage students entering the schools from Central America. For the most part, a large majority of these students were hardworking in pursuit of the american dream. But there was a second type of student entering our schools as well. The ms13 gang member. Straight from el salvador, honduras, guatemala with nothing but malice on his mind look to further the influence of his gang and to recruit as many of the abovementioned children into the ms gang as possible. These children were entering our country across the southern border as unaccompanied children. They were coming to communities that are strong, Central American population and attempt to be reunited with Family Members. Upon arrival to the metro boston area, they found themselves in a very vulnerable position. Some of these individuals, some of them being reunited with Family Members that they have not seen for 14, 15, and even 16 years. Some being reunited with mothers and fathers that have moved on and started their own families and didnt welcome the child to be part of it. And at worse, some of these unaccompanied children went into a Sponsorship Program with a socalled concerned adult had no interest in had the childs wellbeing. As gang investigators, we know that this combination of bre breakdown in Family Structure and individuals wanting to belong and the childs thought that theyre in need of protection makes that child a perfect candidate for gang recruitment and in this case recruitment by ms13. Ive been investigating the ms13 gang in massachusetts for 15 years. Over course of those years, ive seen the gangs membership numbers increase and decline. The most recent increase in and the most significant increase began in 2014. The city of chelsea as well as surrounding cities and towns saw an uptick be in streetlevel Violence Associated with ms13 and its rival 18th street. At first, this violence was isolated to mostly armed and you armed assaults. But soon developed and evolved in the coordinated attacks on rival gang members and students within our schools. Some of these attacks resulted in homicide had the homicide investigators have detailed the most brutal, premeditated horrific crimes committed at the hands of ms13. The organization has no respect for human life, they kill on demand, and without mercy. They often use cutting instruments like machetes, knives, and even box cutters to inflict the most damage on the victims as possible. This is how they spread their influence, this is how they intimidate, and this is how if left unchecked they can take over a community on the case of el salvador and influence an entire country. In 2016, as a result of a threeyear investigation conducted by the north Shore Gang Task force, an hsi, the u. S. Attorneys office charged 61 leaders, members, and associates of ms13 in a rico conspiracy involving six murders and 22 attempted murders. We dont view this investigation as a case but rather of our ms13 program. The multiagency approach is critical to any successful ms13 program. That program depends on closely coordinated, investigative measures by a Law Enforcement Team Consistent of the fbi, specifically in massachusetts the north Shore Gang Task force, hsi, the fbi tag offices in el salvador, kwauts malla and honduras. The Massachusetts State Police and various local Police Departments within communities contain a strong ms13 presence. This program also requires close coordination with the u. S. Attorneys office and local district Attorneys Office. The multiagency approach is critical to any successful ms13 program. Also critical is an appropriate balance between criminal prosecution and deportation. To really get to the heart of the problem and the metro boston area, we need to investigate and prosecute a high volume of ms13 members including the entire leadership. Along the way, we used deportation tactically to remove dangerous individuals when we were unable to prosecute eenl are because of age or inability to gather sufficient evidence. We work closely with our hsi partner to ensure that we are targeting the right individuals for deportation and providing hsi with the evidence it needed to ensure that the deportation would occur. Now that weve taken out a large portion of the leadership and membership, we continue a threepart strategy consisting of developing human sources for continued largescale criminal enterprise investigations and prosecutions. Using the intelligence, the sources weve developed for our prosecutions to assist local district Attorneys Offices and investigators and in our case with three or four pending investigations, prosecutions of ms13 murderers involving juvenile defendants. And three, using deportation to disrupt ms13 criminal operations. It takes a task force approach with the most sophisticated investigative techniques to combat a transnational threat. Each local, state, and federal partner offers a unique still set to the team. It is my opinion that its critical to Mission Success that these efforts are supported with sufficient funding and appropriate recognition by the United States government. Thank you. Thank you, detective. Our final witness is chief Police Thomas manger. Chief manager has been the chief of police since 04 with the he began his career in 1997 with the fair fax county Police Department. Thank you. Chairman johnson, disfing continuing mished members of the committee. It is a community of one Million People many maryland, onethird of whom were not born in this country. Im also here representing as representatives the president of the mange juror city chiefs association, thats an association of the largest 69 Police Departments in the United States. And i want to thank you for this opportunity to address the committee. Senator johnson, i chairman johnson pointed out that in his remarks that ms13 has been around in the United States for over 40 years. They started on the west coast, ten years later they started showing up on the east coast, and since that the time that theyve gotten here, ms13 has evolved into one of the most violent and murderous gangs in the world. It has progressed from a group whose members certainly in my jurisdiction started off committing petty crimes and were initially considered as more of a juvenile delinquency issue as opposed to anything else and now theyve escalated into acts of extortion, aggravated assaults, and murders. As a result, my department and others in the washington, d. C. Region formed a dedicated Investigative Unit that are solely focused on gangs and continue to target ms13 and other gangs. Over the last 20 years, my department in partnership with our region regional and federal Law Enforcement partners along with the u. S. Attorneys office have prosecuted numerous case dollars against ms13 and its primary rival the 18th street gang. With each major prosecution, the county experienced a period of relative inactivity from the gangs only to have them reemerge after reconstituting their ranks and reestablishing their criminal enterprises. Beginning in about two years ago in june of 2015, Montgomery County began to experience a spike in gangrelated homicides. This marked increase correlated with the break down of a truce between the gangs and the el salvadorian government and a significant increase in that counts homicide rate. This year, Montgomery County has not experienced not seen a spike in those homicides by ms13, but this is because weve just completed a major rack tier influence corrupt Organization Rico case that Task Force Officers in the d. C. Region and acts from the dea and Homeland Security operations condhauktd netted several indictments of top maryland based ms13 leaders. Coincidently we had two ms13 gang members that were murdered in an altercation when an unidentified suspect at a local Shopping Mall got into a confrontation with them and stabbed both of the individuals to death. There was another high will he publicized incident earlier this year where a 15yearold run away from my county was killed in a neighboring jurisdiction by ms13 gang members and associates. This certainly reminds us that while weve seen a bit of a decline in the homicides this year, it reminds us that our work against gangs must continue. Its important to note that during this same time frame my jurisdiction experienced seven more homicides that were acontribute butded to two other local gangs or crews. These murders by the neighborhood crews appear to be motivated by illegal drug transa actions whereas the ms13 appear to be based on affiliations with rival gangs. Committing homicide say means for them tom elevate their status within the gangs. What also distinguishes the m sks13 murders is premeditation, brutality and callusness in which they were committed. With many of the victims suffering from multiple blunt force traum and stab wound and left in shallow graves in isolated wooded areas. In addition to the homicides that ive mentioned, weve also heard from Community Members that be ms13, which historically kpton torted month from solely illicit businesses are now collecting rent from legitimate Latino Business owners and residents in certain apartment complexes. In some instance, if the victims of these extortions refuse to pay the fee demaended by the gang, the gang members return with detailed information on the intended victims Family Members still living in Central America. The victims here in the United States know that that threat of violence to their extended family in their native country is a true possibility and that the perpetrators are out of the reach of u. S. Law enforcement. This same coercive tactic is used to get young adults to join gangs or do tasks on their behalf. The unaccompanied minors that come into our country are particularly vulnerable to gang recruitment. The gangs surf the internet guilding d guilding building dossiers and the data is used to entice new suspects. At least two of the murders committed into my jurisdiction rrk the victims were identified, targeted and lured to their deaths after they developed fabricated social media relationships and accepted false invitations to meet with female ms13 associates posing on the internet with promises of having sex with the unsuspecting victims. Technology also plays a role in hampering Law Enforcement investigations against gangs and other Transnational Criminal Organizations. In our recent case with the dea and hsir investigators learned that are gang members were using commercially available encrypted apps to plot their criminal activities. These applications and other technologies are part of a growing, larger issue of criminal organizations going dark and exceeding the current alkts of both local and federal Law Enforcement to legally monitor their Communications Even with a court order. I want to also mention that my colleagues in corrections have mentioned that there has been a marked and dramatic increase in the number of ms13 gangs in our jails and prisons. This dramatic uptick in that population has impacted the ability for our corrections professionals to keep these individuals segregated. Its impacted staffing and the safety of corrections officers. Let me just finish by offering two recommendations to the committee to address this growing problem. First, i believe that congress can and should fund federal, state, and local task forces to focus on gangs. They could be modeled after the joint Terrorism Task forces and should have a Single National and coordinated infrastructure led primarily by a federal agency with significant input from local departments. These Regional Gang Task forces will need the full spectrum of support from centralized intelligence sharing and analysis to the prosecution in the u. S. Attorneys offices where federal grand juries and firm sentencing have the greatest impact on disrupting these gangs. The senate has previously enacted legislation to accomplish this purpose, but it was never approved by the house. Senator mccaskill you mentioned that sometimes we have an impossible job. My last recommendation i urge congress to act to balance Citizens Rights to privacy with Law Enforcements needs to lawfully monitor and intercept Electronic Communications regarding criminal activity and potential deadly plots. The expanding issue of going dark must be addressed at the federal level to afford local Law Enforcement and our federal partners the legislation and the tools they need to legally access encrypted communications that are used to coordinate criminal activities. Thank you for holding this hearing and thank you for the assistance that you provide Law Enforcement throughout our nation. Thank you, chief. Is it manger. Mainer, yes. 50, 50 shot. Two out of three i was wrong. Its not unusual. Senator lankford has to leave so ill yield my position to senator lankford. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Gentlemen, thank you not only for being here for the preparation for this time for the incredibly compelling testimony and the issue that you bring and the complexity of what you deal with every day. We appreciate your work very much. All three of you mentioned the interaction between ms13 whats happening in Central America, sefrl of you mentioned specifically the coordination efforts between Central America and Law Enforcement here both federal and their Law Enforcement. What can we do to help facilitate greater cooperation, fingerprint sharing, identity, Background Information between individuals that are being deported here back there as theyre trying to receive gang members back there, but also individuals that are moving this direct as well. So what coordination is missing because ms13 obviously is is a strong Central American salvadorian especially presence there. What can we do . I would just say that you touched on a couple of things that we need to do. First, our ability to remove eye dent fied ms13 gang members that have been arrested and convicted of crimes. Often times we have not only in Central America but other nations in our world that will not accept their residents back and we need to remove them from our country and so if we can work on that issue, it would be very helpful. And as i mentioned in my testimony, that the truce that was in place between gangs in el salvador and their government really did impact things in our country. And when that truce broke down, it had a very created a spike in violence in our country. So. What youre saying is the gang truce broke down in el salvador. Thats correct. And affected the violence directly here in the United States. Yes, sir. What other resources what other cooperation do we need from sent tal american countries . I had the privilege to just return from el salvador and with my position with the fbis task force ive been able to go down there approximately a half a dozen times. I just returned just recently as saturday. The fbi has in place an el salvador the tag, the transnational antigang group. Their success prompted them to have another tag placed in honduras and guatemala. What i believe were seeing up in the metro boston area is the inability to refer to a database that doesnt just cover local ms13 members, but ms13 members nationally as well as internationally. And i feel like a database that was the input was from both el salvador and the United States would assist in the vetting process of these unaccompanied children that are crossing the border. A lot of times in el sal contract dore they have information that the individual may have gang ties, possibly not a member, and in return in the United States we have information that the individual has gang ties, whether or not he or she say member. And it would be a great asset if that information found its way to a clearinghouse that they would have access to internationally and nationally and even at the local level. All three of you mentioned something along those lines. Is the fbi the drikt correct deposz depository for that . Because trying to set up something new, obviously, is an additional cost and bureaucracy and everything else. Is there enough of a relationship with the gang task forces locally with fbi and their gang task forces to say fbi should be tasked to be able to have this database all ploek local folks be able to have access to it international and national . In the metro boston area which i can speak on with confidence, we speak to the fbi tag in Central America specifically guatemala and el salvador on a weekly basis. The Massachusetts State Police speaks to the fbi tag in el salvador and guatemala maybe even more often than that. So it would be my opinion that the fbi already has in place those resources and to expand those resources would probably be the best course. Okay. Mr. Sini. I agree wholeheartedly. As i mentioned in my testimony that this database is a Critical Mission critical to facilitating effective collaboration in eradicating these gangs from our communities here. The what were seeing for the first time on long island is direct connections with the young gang members to el salvador. So in the past weve seen connections from folks gang members be in Suffolk County on long island to the west coast. Now its directly to el salvador, guatemala and honduras. So your question is directly on point. The only in addition to the database, i would just add, you know, we work very closely with the fbi in Suffolk County through the fbi safe streets task force. However, a broad special Operation Division may also be worth take a look at. My understanding is that that is essentially a multiagency organization and that could be a divisioning that could assist in this type of database. Whats very helpful is when we have a number pop in Suffolk County, a phone number and we share that with our federal partners abroad who have assets over in Central America and the type of analysis and intelligence that they can gain from a single number is both scary when you see all the connections, but extremely helpful. So what is missing in this database that doesnt already exist . Because it sounds like the cooperation is there, the relationships are already there. Whats missing in there database . Is it just of that it hasnt been launched . Because the informations there. Its my opinion that we have a series of individual databases that dont always connect nationally and internationally. And i think it would be an asset to be able to connect them internationally, again, because that would assist with us not only knowing whos coming into our community, but also would assist the governments within Central America to know at times whos. Coming back. Whos coming back. And from conversations with government officials in el salvador, that was one of the things that they were struggling with is that as their resources to include the fbis tag addressed the ms problem locally in el salvador, and they may arrest 20, 25 individuals, its just a short time later that a plane arrives and 50 more gang members are brought back to their country and they have to continue the process again. So its important to address the problem in el salvador if were going to take a real hard look at the problem that were experiencing here in the United States. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, just a quick comment on this. This is something that the Appropriations Team has started on, in fact yesterday had a hearing on this about Central America specifically and some of the investments in the way were targeting, spending money in our foreign aid and how we need to be able to target this specifically dealing with violence in those areas because it has an exact connection to whats happening here. I would encourage cooperation between those committees and whatever we can do with the fbi to be able to help them finish out this database. It sounds to be pretty much a common scloouolution here so sol Work Together with you on that. Senator mccaskill. When you all identify a gang member who is in this country illegally, are you getting Immediate Response from ice for deportation . When we arrest them we typically do. We can identify them, its not until that they are arrested, fingerprinted, the fingerprints go get to Homeland Security that are they identify them as someone they would be interested in, yes. And let me ask about the countrys who wont take them back. I mean, are we and the problem that you just very laid out very well with us, you know, just when el salvador arrests 25 leaders we send them 50 more to take their place back from this country, are they have we had any problem with either guatemala or el salvador refusing to take any of the people that we have arrested for Gang Activity here to send back there that are not in this country legally . I wouldnt be the subject Matter Expert to answer that question. Have you all encountered not being able to get rid of a gang member that youre holding because a country wont receive them back . I we in massachusetts and specific in the task force that i work in, we havent had a problem. We dont know of a problem where the country didnt take them back. There have been roadblocks at times when an individual committed a crime and was placed in custody up for deportation and the federal judge refused the order of deportation. But that would be completely different than the country not taking them back. Right. Right. Thats another thats a whole other issue. I know you all talked about money for Regional Task forces, i think this is one of those areas where weve got to be really careful with the budget the president presented because while theyre putting more money into border security, we cant we cant forget that a lot of the height of money, a lot of the money that burn grant money, i mean, you all know what these programs are because your departments depend on them especially for inner agency task forces. Having firsthand experience at this, this money is not wasted, this is not soft stuff. This is whats giving you the tools. So i just want to make that comment, because the president s budget was not kind, the skinny budget and the new budget thats been presented was not always kind to programs like that. Let me ask you about prosecutors. You talked about commissioner sini, about more line u. S. Attorneys. And i get that rico has tools that local prosecutors dont have within the rico umbrella. But are you are you getting cooperation from local prosecutors on these assaults, on these felonies . Is there not enough cooperation from your local das on this . Because all of these crimes, obviously, are state crimes, not federal crimes. Assault is not even a federal crime really murder isnt either. So im just curious what the loco operation has been. So as i mentioned before, the part of our strategy is to target these gang members and make street arrests and i mentioned weve made over 200 ms13 arrests. The vast, vast majority of those arrests are prosecuted by our local district Attorneys Office. So in that regard, we get excellent cooperation from the district Attorneys Office. Where i would improve the collaboration among the Police Department, u. S. Attorneys office and district terps office is often times youre able to develop probable cause and the ability to arrest an individual on local state murder charges much sooner than youre able to make a federal murder rico charge. Right. So what i would like to see, if the machine was running perfectly, is once we have pc, that person is arrested, prosecuted in the state system. If it turns out that were able to make that into a federal rico charge, bring that case over to the u. S. Attorneys office. And its a collaborative effort. Perhaps you have a special assistant District Attorney and a u. S. Attorneys office and a special assistant District Attorney so its coordinated . Exactly. Yeah. Yeah improved screening and post Placement Services is also one of your recommendations. I certainly am aware of the post Placement Services issue. We had a whole hearing, senator portman and i did, in psi about the incredible problem of hhs not really there has been some put the gang issue aside, there has been some horrendous treatment of these children in terms of being forced into child labor and other issues, and clearly, i think thats someplace that we need to continue to focus on that. Let me finally just ask you, its my understanding, commissioner and chief, that neither one of your departments will be participating in 287 g. Is that correct . Thats correct. Would you explain briefly why you will not be participating in 287 g . Although we believe that Mission Critical to collaborate with the department of Homeland Security to remove dangerous gang members from our streets, we also simultaneously have to create an environment in which undocumented individuals feel comfortable coming to Law Enforcement with information about crimes. Therefore, we do not, for example, inquire into the immigration status of those individuals who are coming to the police as a witness, as a victim, or someone merely seeking police assistance. In the same vein, we believe if we entered into a 287 g agreement, that could hurt our ability to encourage witnesses and victims to come forward. With that said, whenever we arrest an individual for a crime, misdemeanor or felony, and that person is not here legally, we automatically notify the department of Homeland Security. So and, chief manger, your department was listed on i. C. E. s jurisdiction that supposedly didnt cooperate with them. Obviously, what the commissioner just described is the ultimate cooperation. Its paying attention to your Public Safety mission which has to be foremost. Youre the only one that answers 911 calls. Im not aware of anybody else in the entire criminal Justice System that answers 911 calls besides your department. So what was the downfall of you being listed as a department that failed to cooperate with i. C. E. , and what was the impact on your ability to, in fact, put criminals in prison . The biggest challenge that ive had is to try and make sure that what a number of our elected officials have said has not been misinterpreted by our federal colleagues. The fact is we are not now nor have we ever been a sanctuary jurisdiction. We have found we believe as i mentioned, Montgomery County is onethird immigrant when you look at our population, and i think the commissioner described it perfectly. Weve got to find that balance of whats right for Public Safety in our jurisdiction. If people are afraid to come forward to report crime, afraid to be witnessed to crime, our jurisdiction is less safe. We dont inquire about peoples immigration status. However, if we arrest someone, we cooperate fully with i. C. E. We respond to every one of their inquiries. The issue where i think many jurisdictions run into the challenge and weve been talking to Homeland Security about this forever, are the issue of the detainers. I think many people look at the issue of whether we honor a detainer or not, that is hold someone beyond when they would normally be released as a political decision. It is not. It is a legal decision. We have been instructed by the federal circuit, fourth circuit. Weve been given instructions by our attorneys that we can hold these folks until the time when they would be released. At this point we will notify i. C. E. Theyre being released. If i. C. E. Can come down and get them, theyre welcome to them. Well give them notice ahead of time when theyre going to be released if we have that information. We had a case recently that i. C. E. Took the opportunity to put a press release out on, saying that Montgomery County released a dangerous person back into the community. It was a mistake. We had a detainer. We should have honored it. It was unexpected that a judge was going to release this person and we didnt notify i. C. E. When i say we, it was our corrections department. It was the mistake. It was fixed the next day. The person was taken into custody the next day. That does not overcome the press release. It does not. The fact of the matter is we are doing the same thing that Suffolk County is doing and same thing that about 90 plus percent of the Police Departments in this country are doing. We have found that balance where we do not want to be the immigration police, but we absolutely cooperate and help our federal partners. Make no mistake. You guys are handling 95 of the Violent Crime that occurs in this country, not the federal authorities. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Ill take senator lankfords question. That would be senator hassan. On that same line of questioning, is there any federal law that you would want to see changed or modified to help you do your job as it relates to gang activities and dealing with i. C. E. In terms of detainers and Immigration Law . I would love to see you know, were bound by case law, and when were informed by our attorneys that we would be liable for false imprisonment if we do not release someone when theyre entitled to be released, thats a problem. And so, if there is can be a change in the law to give those detainers the strength of a warrant, because if we have a warrant we will hold someone and that is, i believe, the easiest solution, is to get a warrant to hold somebody. That gives us the Legal Authority to do so. Again, your concern about your liability and ive heard the same thing in terms of county sheriffs departments in wisconsin. There are some civil cases that hold them liable if they detain people, so its really giving you that Liability Protection if you actually detain people in this country legally. Thats correct. Believe me, theres not a Police Department in this country that doesnt want to hold someone who is a danger to their community, and if we can use that person who has already committed a crime, that has gotten them locked up in the first place, if we can use deportation as a tool for that individual, im perfectly happy to remove that person from my community. But i cannot run afoul of the law in doing that. Im going to come back to the strategy of using deportation versus arresting and imprisonment. But i first want to get to something pretty basic. It was interesting being briefed for this. Ive not been a prosecutor. I havent been involved in the whole issue of gangs. My assumption going in is the ms13 would have been primarily there as drug traffickers, human traffickers. Kind of splitting this out, the reason people join gangs, weve talked about, they dont have people here. They dont have family here. This is a type of family. But theyre also extorted to join the gang, as well. Can you tell me, what is the purpose of ms13 . I mean, from the gangs perspective, why are they recruiting, extorting . What is their main activity . Ill start with you, commissioner. Sure. They recruit to sustain themselves, and they are a criminal organization and their Main Objective is to exist and to be feared. Theres no question that they engage in criminal economic activity. Many of them sell drugs. Many of them commit extortion, robberies, burglaries, but they dont engage in those criminal activities as their primary purpose of existence. You understand how this is surprising to hear that . Their main purpose is just to exist, to be an entity, to have people loyal to them and the loyalty extends to macheteing people to death. Does everybody else agree with that . Is that the main purpose . Just to add to what the commissioner said, we have to look at ms13 in the United States as it evolves, just like we have to look at ms13 in el salvador as it evolved. On the east coast of the United States, ms13 is just getting a foothold. On the west coast of the United States, like senator mccaskill and senator johnson said, theyve been there for decades. When we actually imported ms13 back to el salvador, but now theyve begun to evolve and on the west coast they do control Drug Trafficking markets. They do have connections with other criminal organizations such as the mexico mafia, ma. In el salvador, almost everybody pays, almost everybody pays some sort of extortion payment to ms13. In some cases it might be as little as 1. But when a household in el salvador might only bring in 250, that 1 is pretty significant. So we need to learn from the patterns of ms13 on the west coast and the patterns of the criminal activity of ms13 in el salvador to be prepared for what ms13 is ultimately going to try to put into place on the east coast. So to piggyback what the commissioner said, as of right now, they are just maintaining, and they really do just go out and commit the most heinous of violent acts, some of which as a 22year investigator ive never investigated before. To include cutting off of limbs, the attempt to cut off a victims head with a machete. So at this moment on the east coast and in boston, the commissioner said some of them are employed. Some of them go to work at 6 00 in the morning. If you go into certain restaurants in boston to arrest an ms13 member, sometimes the Business Owner says, he was one of my best workers. Right now theyre maintaining. Theyre getting their numbers up and we can see that from the metro boston area all the way down to charlotte. But they are going to evolve, and they are going to attempt to take over trafficking markets of narcotics just like they have in the west coast and just like they have in Central America. So again, they have different specialties. In el salvador its extortion. In the west coast its Drug Trafficking. Were not quite sure how it evolves. You would expect it would be Drug Trafficking, Human Trafficking . I believe on the east coast theyre still trying to get leadership into the right places to include boston, long island, virginia, the carolinas. I think once they establish that leadership base, youll start to see a more sophisticated gang that doesnt just solely commit violent acts, but also, controls some sort of narcotics market, possibly even illegal trafficking. Let me ask how theyre different, how theyre similar with other major gangs. Maybe chief manger can answer that. Our neighborhood crews, which are not ethnic based, that is, they are more diverse in terms of their membership, they are the ones that typically have when we have homicides relating to those, its usually drug related. The homicides related to ms13, its just because we can and because we will and because we want to instill that fear. Its because if youre not in my gang, then youre my enemy and im going to kill you. The economic support that ms13 was engaged in was very unsophisticated for a long time. It was, were going to rent an apartment in some old Apartment Building and were going to put a couple of young women in there and get, you know, 20 bucks for every guy that wants to come in. This would operate for about a week. When it would finally come to our attention, we would be able to shut that down. It would just pop up somewhere else. Not very sophisticated. And it was usually they were extorting money and making money from unlawful operations. Now theyre going to latinoowned businesses and charging them rent and theyre using coercion, fear, threats, and threats that the victims know that these people have the ability and willingness to carry out to now extort money from legitimate business. This is a trend that were seeing more recently. Real quick because i did just want to ask you, you talked about the instance of a couple individuals lured through the internet to their deaths. Was that a initiation right . Why would they lure individuals just to kill them . In one case it was because they believed that that individual was part of a rival gang. Okay. In another case, it was that this individual had been approached and had been resistant to joining ms13, so it was basically to teach them a lesson. No more reason than that. Senator hassan. Thank you, mr. Chair and ranking member, for this hearing. First of all, to the three of you, thank you for your service as Law Enforcement officers and please thank your families for all of us too. Im the former governor of New Hampshire and i had the great privilege of being the chief executive over the New Hampshire state police, so im very appreciative of the time, effort, commitment that you all provide to your fellow citizens. Im very grateful for your testimony today. Im very grateful not only for the information but for the suggestions and recommendations. I think they will help all of us as we Work Together to combat this gang and other Public Safety threats. I did want to look or delve into more of the discussion over what we think the root causes of Gang Violence are. We know we have to ensure that our federal, state and local Law Enforcement officers have the resources necessary to keep our communities safe and i thank you for your recommendations in that regard. But to touch on something that commissioner sini talked about a little bit, having a strong Law Enforcement presence in our communities is only really one part of the solution. We have to ensure, too, that there are social and Education Programs in place and that those are adequately resourced to try to divert young people away from joining gangs in the first place. So my state one of the important social programs that has helped us to address Youth Violence was a Mentorship Program between police and students. Its known as mpal, pair cops with kids in order to help kids grow, make the right choices and become productive members of the community. Among other things, they teach kids boxing, how to exercise, how to work out. Its been an important tool to combat gang recruitment and crime, but also, to combat drug abuse, as well, which you know is a particular devastating issue in my state. I want to ask you all about the social and Educational Programs in your communities and how they seek to address some of the root causes of Gang Violence, and also, just wanted your thoughts on what we saw from the president s budget yesterday which has eliminated federal support for key Education Programs such as dropout prevention and after School Support activities. I assume that you think federal dollars for this kind of work is important but id love to hear your thoughts. Maybe, commissioner, we can start with you. Sure. That is a critical piece to this to addressing this significant Public Safety issue. In Suffolk County, our Police Officers, do such fantastic work in terms of mentoring our students, our children in the communities and doing outreach to all of our children but particularly our atrisk youth. We do that in a variety of dmpt forms. We do it directly with Police Officers. We also have launched a program called change which is with the department of probation and a notprofit organization that specializes in gang prevention. The idea is Early Intervention. Trying to identify atrisk children early on to connect them to services, whether its social work, medical services, and providing that support so they can do well and also involving the family because thats key. The family is going to have the biggest impact on this childs life. So there needs to be an approach to involve the family in that process. And involving Law Enforcement in these social programs is critical for several reasons. One, Police Officers tend to be just very warm and very intelligent and charismatic individuals and they tend to be good at this, but also, it creates that trust between Law Enforcement and the community. So to the extent that people are not comfortable with Law Enforcement, mentoring programs like the one you launched in your home state help break those barriers. So it also achieves that objective. Id just add that in terms of Early Intervention, what better place to start than with the unaccompanied children because we know theyre coming over and they have they are at risk. They are vulnerable by nature of coming to this country illegally, not being with their parents, being so young, being new to this country, and to identify them early on would be key which is why notification to local governments i think would be very helpful. Yes, i vehemently support federal dollars for community policing. Thank you very much. Detective . In chelsea, massachusetts, my chief has always said if were reacting to a crises, then weve already lost. We need to be proactive and prevent the crises. In chelsea we have many programs that especially address the unaccompanied children, whether it be after School Programs that involves policing, whether its the Massachusetts General Hospital in chelsea that provides social resources to these children. Like the commissioner said, you have to involve the family. You cant take a 15yearold and think that 30 minutes after school playing basketball is going to have a lasting effect. It may open up some doors for a relationship, but once that door is open, you need to find out where that individuals going home to. Because we can spend all day playing basketball, but wheres that 15yearold going home to . As Law Enforcement agents, its our job to know where that 12, 13, 14yearold individual is going home to. So we spend a lot of time, i probably spend just as much time fighting gangs as i do trying to spend time with individuals in chelsea, preventing them from joining the gangs in the first place. So you have to get the families involved. And when it comes to these unaccompanied children, its important to help us identify what the crisis is. A lot of these individuals are coming here across the border and they already have ptsd setting in, just the crossing in and of itself, weve heard Horror Stories about. One of the important things that i think would greatly help the state of massachusetts, and specifically my community, chelsea, is that if we knew there was some sort of notification that came to the Police Department or came to the city that an unaccompanied minor was about to join your community, so that way we can search them out to offer resources, versus them trying to have to seek us out. And lastly, when it comes to ms13, inherently, theyre not very trusting of the government. A lot of the social programs that we have in chelsea to include whats called roca, reaching out to chelsea adolescents, the ms13 members see that as a government agency. They dont know thats a social agency, so it does hinder their ability to do reachout work. But just in closing, the proactive approach, the reachout work, preventing these individuals from joining the gang at the recruitment stage is critical. Thank you. Chief . Every single one of us when we were 12, 13 years old, you start to mature out of always being out from under mom and dads umbrella and you want to have every one of us wanted a sense of belonging to something, a sense of being able to be somewhere where we had people that cared about us, friends. For some of us it was sports. Some of us it was other school activity. Some of us it was church. The unaccompanied minors that come here are just a perfect recruitment opportunity for gangs because they come with none of that, but they all want that. So the key, i think, is to be able to, as soon as possible when we identify those folks, is to give them wraparound services. Im telling you. Scott is right on, and i wrote down that, you know, walking home because we can do all we can for these kids, but then they got to walk home and thats where theyre vulnerable. So the Early Intervention programs, the intervention programs, we have something called a Street Outreach Network where we have counsellors who are specially trained, many of them former gang members, who actually intervene with these kids, keep them from joining gangs in the first place. The challenge is to identify these kids, and the one place where these kids will all end up that you might be able to connect with them is schools. The problem is the schools are hesitant and i understand why theyre hesitant. Theyre hesitant to get involved in the gang issue, but thats where you can actually find these kids. The schools have been reluctant, understandably, to start getting involved in those gang kind of programs, but if we can somehow coordinate a little bit better without running afoul of all the protections that are in place for these young kids, the Early Intervention is the way to go, absolutely. Thank you. Mr. Chair, thank you for your indulgence. Gentlemen, thank you very much and be safe. I have to chime in, the primary goal of federal policy should be to stop the flow or drastically reduce it. If we focus on that, then youre not having to worry about dealing with all these unaccompanied children. Its been a crisis level and creating havoc. Our focus ought to be how do we stop or reduce that flow. Senator hassan. I mean, senator harris. Thank you. Chairman, as attorney general of california, i convened a group of Law Enforcement leaders in our state and other experts over quite some period of time to produce this report, gangs beyond borders, and its an examination of Transnational Criminal Organizations and what we need to do to stop them. Id like to submit that for the record. Without objection. Appreciate it. Thank you. I want to thank each of you as a career prosecutor. I started out as a baby d. A. And i prosecuted permly everything from lowlevel offenses to homicides. I was the elected d. A. Of california and the attorney general of california. I cannot thank you enough for the work that you do. In particular as local Law Enforcement, perhaps its a bit of buy but i do know that local Law Enforcement disproportionately shoulders the burden and responsibility for dealing with these issues, including tran including Transnational Criminal Organizations. And it is too bad that others when we talk about Transnational Criminal Organizations, they automatically go to international Law Enforcement or federal when, in fact, local Law Enforcement really does carry an extreme burden for dealing with it at the local level. So i want to thank each of you and the men and women of your departments for the work they do. As local Law Enforcement, we know that, one, Transnational Criminal Organizations are involved in the trafficking of drugs and guns and human beings. They also like everyone else in society have adopted technology in the way they do their work. Among their many reasons for being, the chairman asked that question, is one of the highest reasons for being is to make money. And they profit off of illegal activities that rise to the level of also being lethal. Theyre involved in money laundering, government fraud, theyre involved in piracy. Theyre involved in identity fraud. All of those are pursuits of illegal and organized criminal associations. But as local Law Enforcement, one of the things that we know is that one of the best tools that we have is the trust that we have between ourselves and the communities we serve. And when there is a break in that trust, it breaks our ability to do the work that we need to do and the men and women of your departments need to do which is to concern themselves with Public Safety. Id like to talk for a moment about the importance of the relationship of trust between local Law Enforcement and the communities you police. You are aware that this administration has been looking at a policy of withholding burn jag and cops funding, federal funding, to local Law Enforcement if you dont cooperate with Immigration Enforcement. Weve talked about that previously. First, tell me, how much do your departments rely on burn jag and cops funding to do your every day work . Can you tell me . Each of you if we can just go down the line. Sure. We are a recipient of grant money in excess of 1 million and it helps us fulfill many of our Mission Critical objectives. If that funding were withheld, what would that mean in terms of your ability to perform your every day duties and responsibilities . We would have to secure funding from another location which in these days in my county that would be extremely challenging. Okay. Thank you. I would mirror what the commissioner said. My department relies greatly on that funding and if that funding was taken away it would seriously inhibit our ability to do what we do every day. Thank you. Ditto. We typically have around 1 million at any given time of that kind of grant money. The programs that we operate based on that money are absolutely critical to our mission. Theyre doing phenomenal things for the residents of our county. My hope is that were getting more clarity as to what a sanctuary jurisdiction is and what would make jurisdiction ineligible for these kinds of grants. As we get that clarity, i think my concern is lessening a little bit because nowhere did i see a place like Montgomery County would have to change what were doing. We do, in fact, cooperate with federal authorities, but again, we have but the fact that we have elected not to become 287 g jurisdictions and do Immigration Enforcement ourselves would not make us ineligible for those kind of grants. Im hopeful that as we get more clarity that it wont impact the majority of jurisdictions. Thank you, chief. On your point about your departments statement to your community that you will not be a 287 g city and department, lets talk a little about, again, the relationship of trust as it relates to what we ultimately want to do which is not just arrest the bad guy but prosecute him and get a conviction and lock him up. What we want to do is make sure that theres going to be serious and swift and severe accountability and consequence, in particular for those who commit Violent Crimes in our community. As we both know, the only way that we get to that goal is that we prove a case in a court of law. And the only way were going to prove a case in a court of law is if we present evidence to a jury or a judge, correct . Most of the time that evidence is not going to be coming from the bad guy himself. Its going to be because we have produced witnesses to the crime who will come and testify before a jury in an open courtroom. Is that correct . That is correct. Wouldnt you agree then what has happened over the course of many months since these statements have been made about a policy that would have local Law Enforcement cooperate with i. C. E. Is that there has been a chilling effect, in particular around witnesses who are immigrants, be they documented or undocumented . Certainly when the executive orders were first issued right after the new administration came into office, there was absolutely a great fear in our community about just how those executive orders were going to be implemented. You mentioned youre the head of the Police Chiefs major city chiefs, yes. Thank you. So you probably know chief charlie beck in los angeles. Very well, yes. Chief beck has reported that in march he witnessed a 25 drop in reports of Sexual Assault, a 10 drop in reports of Domestic Violence among latinos in los angeles from the same time in 2016. Similar reports have come from houston, texas, and salt lake. Would you agree that when the people of our communities think that theyre going to be deported, many victims, in fact, especially, will endure crimes like Domestic Violence or Sexual Assault rather than be deported and removed from their children or the community that they know . I do believe that. When we became we were very quickly aware of the fear in our community and we redoubled our efforts to ensure to let the folks in our Community Know that our policy has not changed and that they had no reason to fear coming forward to report crimes or being witnesses. Ill just tell you a very quick story. We had a domestic homicide where a man driving down a busy street had abducted his estranged wife and she tried to jump out of the car. He grabbed her by the hair, pulled her back in, shot her in the head and pushed her out onto the street. There were two men who were within a distance that you and i are away from where this happened. They heard her scream, heard the shot, they saw what occurred. Both these men were day laborers. They were standing in a parking lot at a Convenience Store waiting to be picked up for work. Neither men spoke english. I dont know their immigration status but people can certainly speculate. As we arrived, these men came forward and spoke to one of my officers about what they saw. Had we not had the relationship with the community we have and the policies that we have, my guess is that both of these men would not have been there when officers arrived to start investigating that case. Thank you. Thank you all for your service. I really appreciate. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator heitkamp. Their, mr. Chairman, and again, were all announcing our street cred on this. I, too, was the attorney general of my state, like general harris and i had the wonderful opportunity of leading teams in Drug Enforcement which inevitably led to gang enforcement, and it was very difficult sometimes for people in a state like north dakota to understand that gangs had infiltrated their community. I think sometimes one of the challenges we have in states unlike california is getting people to admit they actually have a problem. I dont think theres any doubt that ms13 has become a cancer in our society and that its met tastizing in every community, including communities in my state, especially native American Communities where its easier to infiltrate. I will tell you, like any cancer, we need a whole range of treatments. If you get breast cancer, you cant just rely on surgery. Youre going to have chemotherapy, radiation, after treatment. So i want to focus, as my colleague senator hassan focused, on prevention and senator harris focused on what we need to do to actually have prosecutions. Want to talk about deportations. I, through an interesting set of circumstances, actually spent about an hour and a half, two hours in an el salvadorian prison with leaders of ms13. They rely on those gang members to maintain some kind of order within the prison system because otherwise, the overcrowding, thats no way they could maintain that population. So you see ms13 basically embedded throughout the culture and throughout the society, the Civil Society of these communities. I also in el salvador went to a religiousbased antigang program where a lot of it was job training, a lot of it was trying to find opportunities so that future gang members or people who were just on the cusp of recruitment could not could find an opportunity other than joining the gang for economic stability in their lives. With that said, i will tell you, the biggest problem i see is extortion. When you deport a gang leader, an ms13 gang leader back to the community, theyre going to find a Family Member and theyre going to extort. All the great wishes and outreach that youre talking about today may not be all that valuable if they think that if they dont join in this country, that grandmother will not be alive the next day. So the extortion piece of this is incredibly difficult to get at. And i think we cannot we cannot solve this problem without thinking about stabilizing the triangle countries, especially the country of el salvador. They are still suffering from the residuals of a civil war. That created the vacuum in terms of security and safety that gangs moved into and theres never been, in my opinion, a very effective reestablishment of the rule of law. They act in that way. Senator johnson and i also chairman johnson and i also witnessed some of the collaborations between our institutions, and we actually saw the colombian folks come up and try and help to establish a rule of law and order in these communities. My question to all of you and then ill just let you take it from here, when you are arresting or when youre dealing with the community, how much of this do you hear and have you thought about if only we could have a program in el salvador, if only we could work more collaboratively with our counterparts in the triangle countries, particularly el salvador, we could get a better handle on whats happening here . How much thinking have you done about international collaboration, i guess would be my question. To answer that, i just wanted to touch base on what senator harris what you were asking. In my community which is the majority of the community identifies with hispanic or latino trust with Law Enforcement is priority number one. A lot of our community is made up of undocumented residents. And so, trust with that subcommunity is priority number one. Weve gone to Great Lengths to assure them that, yes, since january i. C. E. Has had more of a presence in our neighborhoods, but the chelsea Police Department doesnt assist i. C. E. Operations when theyre solely for immigration issues i can appreciate that one of the challenges that you have is just within the community writ large where you are, but its going to be really hard to convince that kid not to join a gang and not to act the way theyre going to act if they think that their parents or if they think that their grandparents are at risk back home in el salvador. Right. How do we solve that . Thats a true statement. We do have evidence of individuals being pressured into joining gangs because of some sort of tie directly with el salvador. I think senator, i think you said it at the beginning of your question, which was, we need to secure we need to stabilize those countries. Theyre fleeing for a reason. When they do, theyre coming to this country under the worst possible conditions. So like yourself, ive been to many of the jails and prisons in el salvador, and they have resources that are minimal at best. And so, theres no reason for that individual to actually attempt to reform while theyre in prison. Theyre just looking to get out and just go right back to where they were before they went in. So to answer you directly, yes, we need to make an effort to assist those Central American countries, specifically el salvador where ive been, in stabilizing. From the standpoint of the chiefs of police, how do you see an opportunity to collaborate with your counterparts in the triangle countries, particularly el salvador . Its a challenge. I mean, we certainly have partnered with our international partners. Ten of our members in the police is from canada. Weve had associate members from the uk. The relationship between Law Enforcement agencies, especially our federal partners, and the Law Enforcement agencies in some of these countries is theres not we got to build the trust there. You have to be able to trust that that information that youre sharing is not going to be misused. There is no question, the premise of your remarks, that theres an impact on what goes on here by whats happening there. Unfortunately, as a local police chief even president of the major city of chiefs, im not sure local Law Enforcement has much control or much influence over the issue that youre asking about. And i think my point would be that then were just treating symptoms because we arent going to get ahead of this unless we work collaboratively, and i completely understand the hesitation to share intelligence or any kind of information back and forth. You dont know who youre talking to. And i think these are all efforts that were working on to try and improve the professionalism and the honesty and integrity of the Police Departments. Weve seen some steps in the right direction. They definitely are not there. But i still like senator harris and like senator hassan, i understand the Critical Role that local Law Enforcement plays, and when we make mistakes here in terms of National Policy and National Cooperation and the utilization of the resources we have in this country, when we dont do our job internationally, you guys are going to continue to be stressed and have this same issue. And so, i just wanted to bring that because i think a lot of people think, well, deport them home. Deporting people home may, in fact, be sending one of the worst perpetrators who now has the ability to extort any number of additional people to achieve a criminal result right here in the United States. So thank you so much for everything that you do. We want to be great partners with you, and thank you so much for your testimony. Thank you. Senator dean, good timing. Thank you. Precision like the blue angels here. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you all for testifying today and for your service in the Law Enforcement community. You all mentioned brutal crimes in your testimony. These are hard to stomach. We just had a very brutal crime in montana last week where we had a Deputy Sheriff that was murdered, murdered by a man who was eventually killed by Law Enforcement. We had the funeral yesterday. We need to do everything in our power to put an end to the violence and cut off the flow of resources that fuel it. In montana, while we do not have a sizable Transnational Criminal Organization presence, we do feel the impacts of their elicit activities. Ms13 has established relationships with Drug Trafficking networks that distribute in montana. Virtually all meth in montana are trafficked from south of the border. We have seen the price drop in half with the influx and now more than 90 of all drug offenses in montana are meth related. Additionally, weve seen a nearly fivefold increase in heroinpositive drug tests. This impacts our communities from increases in Violent Crime to a disturbing rise in child endangerment and foster care caseloads. Detective conley, at previous hearings with Homeland Security secretary kelly, we discussed domestic demand for drugs as a key contributor to the violence in Central America. I understand you recently returned from el salvador training their police. From your perspective, how can we reinforce their Law Enforcement efforts . While i was down there i had an opportunity to speak to high ranking officials within their Law Enforcement community, and what they said over and over again was that what they were experiencing in el salvador was the sophistication of gang members coming back from the United States. Just recently in el salvador, they started doing title three wiretaps. Up until 2015, they didnt even have the ability to do that. In el salvador, what theyre what they need most in regards to combatting the ms13 in the rival 18th street gang is not just the technology but the personnel that knows how to utilize that technology. But most importantly, and i know the department of justice has gone to Great Lengths to provide this, training for their prosecutors. A lot of their prosecutors didnt have the adequate training to prosecute a sophisticated gang like ms13 or 18th street. When i was down there not this most recent time but a couple years ago, we found that their homicide detectives didnt do homicide vehicles. Homicide investigations. That the for the most part just responded, wrote a report and then moved on to the next homicide. So to answer your question directly, training. Training is what they need. They want to combat the gang. El salvadorians that live in el salvador, they despise the ms13 gang just as much as el salvadorians who live in massachusetts. They despise the gang and applaud all efforts to rid their area of the gang. But to answer your question, training. Followup, what else do you think these countries can be doing to stop the production of meth, to stop the production of these other drugs before theyre even shipped to the u. S. . I think i would be outside of my scope of expertise if i was to answer that. Im sure the same techniques that we would use here in the United States. It would require a joint approach, a joint effort to totally stop the trafficking of narcotics. Commissioner sini, in your testimony you discussed a surge to over 400 ms13 gang members in your county in just a few years. How in the world did that happen . These are identified gang members in Suffolk County and a handful of hamlets. These individuals certainly comprise of mostly males. They are mostly latino coming from countries such as el salvador, guatemala and honduras. Many of them came to the country illegally. A small percentage of them are unaccompanied children and a small percentage are also lawful residents and even american citizens. Certainly, we are concerned that ms13 is recruiting younger people. As we target them, they recruit even younger. As we mentioned earlier, the unaccompanied children are certainly vulnerable for ms13 gang recruitment and thats why its so important to address that population. Speaking of gangs, and i hail from a state that has a number of indian reservations, im told by state Law Enforcement that gangs often find indian reservations to be a safe haven. Do you have any thoughts and ill open this up to the panel. Do you have any thoughts on how we can boost collaboration with the tribal communities and Law Enforcement . Suffolk county has reservations in its jurisdiction and we have had issues involving crime, particularly gangs, on our reservations. In one instance what we have done is we have entered into a memorandum of understanding with the tribe to essentially provide Police Services to that reservation. Theyre obviously very complex issues involving jurisdiction and sovereign territory and that memorandum of understanding set forth clear terms upon consent with the reservation and the tribe to accept Police Services. That has gone that document has gone a long way in improving relations between the native americans living on that reservation and the Suffolk County Police Department. And we have been able to collaborate with the Tribal Council to target those criminals because the. How long ago did you put the mou in place . Several years. Have you seen results . Yes. Absolutely. We are able to work hand in hand with the Tribal Council to target problem individuals and problem locations. Because theres no arguing and thes no debating about whose role it is, whos allowed to be there, when were allowed to be there. It facilitates that collaboration and we have an excellent relationship with the Tribal Council on the reservation with which we have that mou and just like we would work with a town or municipality where we partner with the Code Enforcement and Public Safety to target, say, a problem home, we have zombie homes, abandoned homes or problem location like a drug spot, we do that with the reservation and its very effective. Thank you. Thank you, senator daines. To give you more insight of Law Enforcement in Central America, we were down there. One of the biggest problems they have, first of all, theyre combatting impunity and corruption. When i first heard that, impunity, thats a different term. But then you find out that local Law Enforcement is provided not so subtle threat when theyre given a dvd showing their family is going to church or their children going to school. Thats a, you know, pretty brutal reminder of why its pretty tough being local Law Enforcement down in Central America. Senator hoeven, further evidence that we are strong were committed to securely our northern border, well represented on our committee. Youre next. Thanks, mr. Chairman. Appreciate you calling a hearing on this important issue. I guess id start out by asking each of you, what are we doing . What is customs and Border Patrol doing at the border, particularly in regard to unaccompanied alien children to make sure that were trying to prevent the growth of ms13 . In other words, looking at people who may be trying to come across to join ms13 in this country. And thats the average age for ms13 gang me believes . In Suffolk County the median age of active ms13 based on our arrests is 18. It certainly ranges from the the largest age range for active ms13 gang members is 14 to 29. Certainly, there are younger and older ms13 gang members but that is our biggest bulk. In terms of the what department of Homeland Security is doing, my understanding is they are transferring responsibility over to department of health and Human Services at an early stage, and i think ill speak for Suffolk County. What we would like to see is more collaboration between local governments and the department of health and Human Services in the office of Refugee Resettlement in terms of replacement of these children in our communities, including notification to School Districts and local governments so that we can be proactive in dealing with this very vulnerable population. Also, the immigration courts. Because if unaccompanied alien children, particularly young males in the 14, 15 to 18 age bracket, if theyre being released into the community, then what doesnt that create is real concern that some of those may get recruited and end up as ms13 gang members . Yes and weve seen that some have. Its still a small percentage of the uac population but nonetheless its of concern to us which is why we think local notification and funding to provided services to these children is so important. Where is ms13 drawing their ranks from . Where i mean, you talked about significant growth. Where are they drawing that growth from . Where is it coming from . Theyre recruiting young people in our communities and theyre recruiting recent immigrants because oftentimes theyre they prey on peoples fears. Recent immigrants may not be may not feel comfortable coming to Law Enforcement. They are adjusting to a new culture and society, so they are vulnerable at that point. And theyre recruiting also very young. There is one instance where, in Suffolk County, we have intelligence of ms13 gang members recruiting a 10yearold. Whats the draw . I think its a combination of factors. There is the draw that you can belong to something. We can put some money in your pocket. You can get high with us. You can youll have a family. Well protect you. There is a sense of cultural unity, as well. And then there is the other part. By the way, if you dont join, youre going to have problems. The fear factor, the coercion, if you will. I guess the same questions. I just wanted to add to what the commissioner said. I can tell you in my community, if you are a 17yearold el salvadorian that just arrived in the massachusetts area, as a uac, all you have ever known is ms13 and 18th street back home. From childhood, thats all youve ever known. They control complete city blocks. Multiple city blocks. They control multiple cities. A lot of times, when that child comes here and theyre confronted under like what we spoke about a few times, under the worst possible conditions and they have one individual come up to them and even speak about ms13 or 18th street, that child goes right back to what he or she knows, which is what ms13 is in el salvador. And they know that once that contact has been made that they only have, really, one choice. And that is to join. Now, we have had success with individuals resisting at the beginning of that recruitment process. And locally, i am talking about success locally, weve had success with having that individual resist that gang recruitment, and then actually the gang at some point kind of leaves them alone. Because a lot of times ms13 is only looking for individuals that want to be ms13. But, under the uac program, a lot of these individuals are coming to homes that didnt want them, a parent that didnt want them. Sometimes weve even had interviews done with individuals that didnt want to be here, that their grandparents said, weve raised you long enough. Its time for you to go live with your mom. And then the worstcase scenario, the Sponsorship Program, where there wasnt any vetting taking place. And we have horrific stories of individuals living in the worst of conditions. And like everyone on this panel has said in our opening briefs, that is the classic vulnerable 15yearold individual that seeks out gang, the identity of the gang, in replace for a broken Family Structure. Just one more point. I cant comment on what goes on at the border. But i can tell you from a local Law Enforcement perspective, like the commissioner said, if we had some sort of notification that came to the community and im not sure how that notification would be made so that when the individual comes here, that they have resources provided to them, whether it be through the schools, whether it be through mental health, but the worstcase scenario is the scenario that were living right now where we get notified from the school that 38 new students just arrived from Central America. Some are thriving and some are not. And those are only the ones that we can identify because theyre seeking out education through the schools or social services through medical facilities. So its it would greatly assist local Law Enforcement if some sort of notification was done, especially when were talking about 13, 14 and 15yearold kids. That actually goes right to my next question. Are our laws sufficient to try to deal with the ms13 problem. Sounds like right there something that would be helpful, and that is, some type of notification requirement for people coming across the border as to at least notified. I mean wed have to give some thought how to do it. Are our laws sufficient so you can deal with this problem . I think our criminal laws are sufficient in terms of dealing with criminal behavior by gangs. Where i think we need help and i dont know whether its new laws or different laws but if our health and Human Services folks and they are notified in my jurisdiction. Somehow theyre notified when they get these unaccompanied minors. But detective conleys mention about often times these kids, they say im going to my uncles house, this is where my uncle lives. What they dont do is get enough information about whether the uncle is capable of taking them in and two weeks later says this is not working. We cant do this. Where are the wrap around services to help that family . To help that child, that individual . And this is we need perhaps better standards in place to make sure that whatever situation were sending that person to, its viable and viable for a longer period of time. Thanks for your work. Again i want to thank the witnesses for taking the time for your thoughtful answers to our questions but primarily thanks for your service. We all know the risk youre taking and we all have people, Police Officers, other Public Safety officials who have given their lives in the line of duty. We truly appreciate your service. The hearing record remain open until june 8 at 5 00 forewoman the submission for the record. This hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] this Holiday Weekend on American History tv, saturday at 10 00 p. M. Eastern on reel america, the 1977 documentary men of bronze about the all black 369th u. S. Regimen during world war i. Approximately 24 generals attacked. Roberts got slugged almost immediately and johnson fought them off. He shot and he caught and he swung his knife around and defeated the 24. Cut out. He had 21 wounds in his body but he refused to die. Sunday at 910 00 p. M. , historian and authorer elizabeth hawks of the. In france. That meant that the local operator had to speak to a french operator. They had to parlay view and most did not. So they had to give bilingual american women who could handle this job. They hired women not because they were as good, but because at least at this job they were better than men. Well visit the National World war i museum in kansas city. Missouri and talk with the senior curator, authors Richard Faulkner and museums president and ceo matthew nailer. What we seek to do is tell the story through ordinary people, men and women as well as volunteers who served in the armed forces from all sides. From our complete American History tv schedule, go to cspan. Org. Sunday on q and a. I had a friend who was vaporized along with a sixman Security Team that i sent to the airport and it took three months to separate them all. War is not a game and its not a funny thing. Malcolm nance and his most recent books. The plot to hack america. How putin cyber spies and wikileaks tried to steal the election. Plot to hack america actually came out of hacking isis while we were writing hacking isis, we found there were two hacks that were done against one tv five in france. And another one against the germanys parliament. Which were atrebutribattributed. So we learned the methodologies, the malware that was introduced and the place where the servers terminated that were stealing the information were certainly not isis, they are what is now known apt 28, cozy bear and that was the name that crowd strike, the Cyber Security company gave for their interpretation of this malware package that Russia Military intelligence. Sunday night at 8 00 eastern on cspans q a. Federalic