Transcripts For CSPAN3 Ashley 20240704

As many of you know, we are a nonprofit but were dedicated to preserving and celebrating the history of tennis and its greatest champions to inspire fans globally. In addition to presenting the ultimate in tennis induction into the International Tennis hall of fame, we also how is the largest collection of tennis artifacts in museum, which hopefully many of you saw as you came through this evening . Were home to the atp in both this hall of fame opened in july we run a year round tennis club. We have a National Junior tennis and learning chapter for 50 plus at risk youth here in local community. And that all resides in our seven acre property that is National Historic landmark, the building that youre all sitting in was built in 1881 and the grounds out your right were home to the very u. S. National lawn tennis championship as that event grew to be too large here for newport, it moved to the west side tennis center, which is where in 1957, Althea Gibson, the first black person, woman or man to win the event. Eventually the tournament moved flushing, queens. Where you now all know that event as the u. S. Open. So theres a rich history here, the International Tennis hall of fame, and its that we not only how is history, but we celebrate and share that with all of you, which is exactly what were here to do tonight. Tonights lecture, not only educational in nature, but it also shines light on one of our 262 hall of famers and Althea Gibson. And althea is short eight year career. She appeared in 19 major finals and won 11 of them. But perhaps most more significant was that in 1950, she was the first africanamerican to compete at u. S. National championships and the first to win it in 1957 in recognition of her remarkable and inspiring career career, althea was inducted into the International Tennis hall of fame in 1971. So presenting tonight is dr. Ashley brown, who joins us all the way from wisconsin. To share more about althea is remarkable life and career professor is an assistant professor at and the alan h. Seelig chair in sport and society u. S. History at the university of wisconsin, where she teaches courses such sport, recreation and society, africanamericans in sports biography in u. S. Sports history in history, sport and film. She earned her ph. D. In american studies at George Washington university. Professor browns newest book is the first full scale biography of Althea Gibson. It looks at gibsons and professional life as it developed amidst the context of historic events. And i can tell you from having read portions of it this past weekend, professor brown weaves, together the history of what was transpiring in the United States, along with althea as career beautifully. So please join me in welcoming professor ashley brown. Good evening and everyone hear me . Yes, thank you for joining me tonight for what i hope will be an engaging talk and a rich discussion about my new book, serving herself the life and times of Althea Gibson. Allow me to begin by acknowledging four organizations that have made tonight possible. First, the internation final tennis hall of fame is our gracious host for the evening. Months have gone into tonights event. I thank staff led Nicole Markham and Imelda Rivera laxton for all that they have done to get us to this point. I located many of the sources and serving herself right here in the archives of the Information Research center. You will see and hear some of those sources tonight. Next, i acknowledge the National Archive and the National Archives foundation, like the tennis hall of fame, collections of the National Archives, specifically the repository and, college park, maryland, and read my book as well as the articles that ive published about american tennis and Althea Gibson in the journal of sport history and the journal of african history. Finally, i thank my publisher, oxford press. Oxford has a long and storied history of publishing groundbreaking books, especially in womens history. Africanamerican history and sports history. Without a doubt. Oxford University Press is the proper press for serving herself. I extend gratitude to oxfords president nico fund humanities editor in chief theo caldera, the marketing and Publicity Team as represented by jostle in cordova and aaron cox. And last but certainly least, susan added our susan ferber, my editor, the executive editor of american and world history. Biography is, a historical genre steeped in concern about origins and many years that i spent researching and writing serving herself. People have often asked me when i first learned about Althea Gibson. The question itself me because it speaks to the relative obscurity and to which gibson had fallen until recently when i scanned my bookshelves and multiple biographies of joe louis, jesse owens, Jackie Robinson muhammad ali, and now arthur, i find myself wondering whether the authors of those books that same question, because it seems to me that in their cases it might be a curious one. Those authors probably received a more nuanced inquiry. How did they become interested in . Fill in the blank in zweig, an entirely question would be appropriate to, and that question would be was there ever a time when you didnt know, said athlete . As it happens can tell you. When i first encountered the name althea, i was a child. I was likely in the third grade and my family had made one of our many trips to our public library. As i remember it, i found two illustrated biographies. One was about babe didrikson, the winner of three medals, two of them gold at the 1932 olympic games. The other was this one, a thin volume about Althea Gibson . I remember sitting beside my mother in the magazine section and reading both of those books. I think i read the gibson one first. I never forgot that bright pink cover. In hindsight. I think the books had been haphazardly left where they did not belong, but again, it occurs to me these many years later that they were in the right place after all. I find it fitting. I was introduced to gibson through a Childrens Book because numerous childrens and young adult books have been written about her. A turn of events that began in her lifetime. In fact, there are many more such books about gibson and other African American sportswomen than there books or substantial academic Journal Articles about them that have been written for adult audiences over the years. In fact, have sent me pictures of their children sons in both cases, reading about gibson. This and chance me, of course. It also leads to questions primarily about why the stories of gibson and other African Women are considered worthwhile, primarily for young readers. Yes, we want our children read. Still, i ask whether relegating these womens stories to thin, colorful books is a further form of minimizing their pursuits and achievements as they so often were in their lifetime times and in ways that do not happen to. Men in sports and in other fields. So in my case, i read the gibson published by academic industries inc. I learned about her numerous firsts in tennis, which you see there on the screen. And i was prepared for many years of black History Month trivia. I heard gibsons me again as venus and Serena Williams. Rose prominence in the late 1990s a ely 2000, when both made a point of speaking of he of letting people know that an africanamerican woman had won the most illustrious titles in tennis before them. I remember learning of gibsons. In september 2003. The turning point happened seven years later, and out of four to it as time i had become an avid golfer and i was preparing to begin graduate school, i had begun to read about history of golf. I noticed the conspicuous absence of attention to africanamericans, the sport. I saw pictures of and references to caddies always, men. But that was pretty much. This was years before publication of layne lane idema excellent book, game of privilege. I borrowed a copy of Pete Mcdaniels uneven lives from another library and that in 1963, Althea Gibson was the first black woman to compete on the Ladies Professional Golf Association tour. Immediately went stockstill. I thought to myself, this woman integrated. Then she integrated. What kind of woman does that. And what must she gone through tonight, i present you with three answers. Althea gibson status as a misfit began the day she was born. On august 25th, 1927, in silver south. Her father, a sharecropper, aspired that his first child would be a boy. Whatever his perceptions, the different meanings of having a daughter as his firstborn instead of a son. Daniel creative, if unorthodox in his thinking, devised a solution. He would parent althea in the way he thought it was appropriate for a male child. What did mean . Well, it began without the his name. And he, Daniels Young wife, chose name for their newborn daughter, althea. And he thought sounded pretty. Daniel the name, but he shortened it sometimes, calling althea out serendipitous silly. The name looks like the word athlete, and daniel and ernie seem not to have discouraged althea from playing sports games. Her father claimed, have taught gibson to shoot marbles when she was just a toddler. Her mother remembered her as being interested in athletics early on, almost as soon as she learned to walk. Simply being africanamerican in the jim crow south made gibson misfit at that time in history. South carolina was not place of first class citizenship. Those who were black voting, earning a living at fair wage, receiving competent and Timely Health care, as well as fair treatment before the law. Having equal access to Public Education without the interference of segregation. And simply having a variety of choices in life, thereby increasing ability to exercise free will were not available to black people. The 1920s and 1930 there and for decades beyond. Daniel pointed to economic toll of the Great Depression as reason that he and annie left south carolina, harlem, new york, in the early 1930s. By leaving silver, the gibsons joined the great migration, the Mass Movement of more than 1 million africanamericans out of the south. From the period just before world, world war one through approximately the of the 1920s, it was a trend would continue engaging millions more africanamericans for decades to come. But Gibson Family like so many of those black migrants, refugees, Isabel Wilkerson calls them, found that the north was not cliched promised land. Daniel got a job as an attendant in, a garage earning 10 every week. He worked at that garage for the next three decades. A short story shows just how different life was from the connotations of wealth that surrounded tennis. Early on a weekday morning, july 1957, gibson to new york from london after winning her first wimbledon singles title, hundreds of people gathered at idlewild, now kennedy airport. But her father was not among them. The reason he worked the night shift at the garage and there was no one to fill in for him. As gibson matured, status as a misfit grew opposed to the disciplining and spankings she received at school. She began to skip classes. Gibson got into fights with boys and girls there, but also on the streets of harlem. Daniel encouraged her to fight and even gave her lessons. There had been at one time women who boxed in the urban. But those days were over by the 1930s. In country, indeed, in a world where, girls were according to a not very helpful nursery rhyme made of sugar and spice and all things nice. The pugilistic gibson was an aberration by gibsons account. Daniel didnt teach her to fight. He struck and threatened her with more beatings if she did not fight back. The bullies at school and on the street. Gibsons yen for sports further marked her as a social misfit. Historically have been dissuaded from participating sports. Of course, some have been deemed ladylike and acceptable activities that have been considered social pastimes than competitions that require exertion and those that have been associated with the upper classes have, been regarded as permissible for women and girls. Figure skating, swimming, tennis and. This list. Other sports, though, have been more controversial. These include baseball, football and basketball, the supposed scandal of women playing these games as related to class and physicality. But the restrictions and negativity, women playing those games are about something. Fears and anxieties about challenges to ideas about where women belong and what women do. As sports studies scholar griffin tells us, one of the functions of sport has been to define and reinforce traditional conceptions masculinity. Griffin cites team sports as particularly important as what we might call training or proving grounds for masculinity team sports, she says have a reliance on physical size, strength, power, mental toughness, competitiveness and all the other qualities we typically consider important and male athletes and all of which are also central, a traditional sense of masculinity. And far from being innate, have been carefully taught and reinforced. Griffins list. Lessons learned in team sports elements for success in the sports, and by extension, life are also qualities historically society and culture not encouraged. Women and girls to cultivate. And those women girls who have developed and possessed these characteristics are often the subject of ridicule or worse. Althea gibson, the heroine of our story, played all kinds of sports in harlem. She played pickup games on the streets, on playgrounds and in church gymnasiums. She especially basketball and as an adolescent on a championship winning team, the mysterious girls on the screen, we have a picture. Gibson that was taken in 1943 whenheas 15 or 16 years old. She is with masten bruno, the coach of the mysterious in an advertisemt r born br. Gibson competed on sports tes with the boys and, e d not shy away from playing against beating boys and even grown men. Gibsons fearlessness and her desire to hone her own strength power, mental toughness and competitiveness very clearly put her at odds. What society expected of girls, women . What is more her role models and athletic heroes were men boxers. Sugar ray and joe louis. We have covered gibson status as a misfit of race and of gender in her early life. Now, what about gibson as a misfit in matters of class, especially in relation to her identity as africanamerican girl and young woman . Well, we see at work in her early years in tennis, the street where gibsons family lived was a place to read. This that the Police Athletic league hell closed the street on afternoons, weekends and certain hours during the months to give local children places to meet and play sports and. One summer morning in the late 1930s, gibson walked out of her familys Apartment Building with. Her friend. They discovered small wooden rackets, white rubber balls and chalk outline courts for game called paddle tennis. The two picked up the equipment began to play. As gibson said, 40 years later, it got to. So we would anticipate summer morning to be the first on the paddle tennis court, practicing it, hitting, enjoying it and a matter of fact, it got to a point where we owned the paddle tennis court. Nobody could get on the court. But. In her autobiography, i always to be somebody, published in 1958, gibson included photograph that was taken of herself during this time. It perfectly her identity as a misfit. She is 12 years old standing at or near her full adult height of 510 and a half wearing what looks like a mans suit minus, the necktie and an awards ceremony where she is being honored for her skills. Paddle tennis. The gives credence to something gibson said in the book, which was that she had not a dress since she was a very young girl. Adding to remarkable ness of the picture is the fact that she included it in her book. 20 years later. So even then she isnt hiding that this is what she chose to wear in early moment of glory. Whether of a sense of personal pride because of her familys poverty or some combination of the two. Furthermore the picture, like many of the stories gibson tells in the book, shows disregard for written and unwritten rules about the ways in which women, if they wanted to be regarded as socially acceptable, dressed and spoke about their early years. Gibsons her combativeness and her working class background made, her a misfit at the Cosmopolitan Tennis Club, buddy walker, a supervisor for powell, gave her to used tennis rackets and, a few tennis balls and got her started with the basics of the game. It was through walker that she landed ace to try out for an honorary junior membership at the club. Located at 443 convent avenue near, 149th street in harlem. The cosmopolitan was just six blocks north of gibson street, but it might as well been in another world. And in a sense, it was the club with for high tone of its neighborhood, sugar hill, where, according to local lore, africanamericans who had made it lived the sweet life, some of the most eminent in the country had chosen live on the hill, as it was called, moving into elegant brownstones and vaunted Apartment Buildings, which very different from the tenement where her family seven gibson, her parents, her four siblings were crammed into just a few small rooms. The cosmopolitan. She remembered the ritzy tennis club in harlem, where all the sugar hill Society People belong. They had money enough in the words of novelist dorothy west, not just to spend but to save. And some cosmopolitan members were choosing to spend their disposable on gibson. Tennis was an expensive sport with its finicky rackets that needed to be raced from white clothes that, required frequent laundering and replacement, and a Club Membership and lessons. If one hoped to get good simply put. Gibson was good. Within a year of joining the cosmos. Politan she won her first tournament, the girls title, the new york state open, which organized by the american tennis association. Africanamericans founded the rta in 1916 to popularize tennis. Raise the level of play among people and give them a regular circuit on which to compete and the chance to vie for an annual national. An honor that the United States lawn tennis association, the u. S. Lta denied them. The aita was about more than fun and fellowship. It was devoted to personal and community development. In 1939, Time Magazine said that tennis was the sport in which were the most firmly organized. This was high, given the existence of League Baseball and the united golfers association. Time paid special notice to the class of africanamericans who belonged to the 88. They were upper crust doctors, lawyers and preachers. According to the magazine, the cosmopolitan was most glittering jewel in the crown of chapters in the United States. Canada, the caribbean. The New York Herald tribune noted that the cosmopolitan was rich with courteous treatment and pleasant surroundings. The attack and the cosmopolitan were strong in another way. They were interracial and. In short, you could pay the membership dues and fees for tournament. You were welcome play. The color of your did not matter but the way in which at members carried themselves did. Gibson stood out for many of the wrong reasons at the cosmopolitan, she wore blue jeans on the tennis court and breached tennis etiquette other ways. The head pro fred johnson and a kindly member named rhoda smith spent years with gibson to try to get her change as gibson explained years later. I really wasnt the tennis type, but the polite manners of the game that seemed so silly to me at first. Gradually to appeal to me. So the pretty white clothes. I had trouble as competitor because i kept wanting to fight other player every time i started to a match. After a while i began to understand that you could walk out on the court, like a lady all dressed in immaculate white, be polite to everybody and still play like a tiger and beat the liver and lights out the ball. As her comportment developed, so did her tennis game in 1944 and 1945. Gibson was Atlas National girls junior and held the number one ranking in the girls division. During the same time, gibson drew inspiration from another misfit, albeit a deceptive one. Alice marble, 1939, winner of the wimbledon singles title and four time champion of the u. S. Nationals, fit many peoples ideas of the quintessential woman in tennis. She was tall, lean, blond, white, and even from california, Fertile Ground for americas champions for decades. More. A few sportswriters found it pleasing to gaze upon her. But markles brand of tennis offended some people who found it incongruous. As with her, looks, as life magazine wrote, 1939, her legs, arms were too long and muscular, and she plays too much of a slam bang of tennis to be glamorous glamorous. In august 44, marble to the cosmopolitan to play in a of exhibition matches and singles doubles and mixed doubles with Mary Hardwicke, a english professional. Marbles play mesmerized gibson marbles effective of strike and the power that she had impressed me terrifically. Gibson said it was the aggressive ness behind her game that i liked. Watching her smack that effortless serve and then follow it into the net and put the ball away with an overhead strike as good as any mans. I saw a possibility in the game of tennis that i had never seen before. Sometime after marbles a visit to the club, gibson to the u. S. Nationals at forest hills as a spectator for the first time. From her seat in the grandstand, gibson a promise to herself. One of these days im going be down there. Well, we. What happened . Gibson made it to forest hills in the summer of 1950. She got there on the strength of her own determination and fine play the mentorship. Two africanamerican doctors in the south. Dr. Hubert, eight and senior. Then dr. Robert walter johnson. The behind the scenes work of eighleers and a more audacious editorial written by alice marble and published in american tennis in an act of white allyship. Marble the u. S. Lta for what she discovered to have been a concerted effort to keep gibson out of forest hills. The American National championship. Marble then attended gibsons debut match and introduced. And of course we know that gibsons future brought many victories. 1956. 1957. And 1958. A veritable thaled to her induction this hall of fame in 1971 as its first africanamerican inductee. In fact. But lets make sure we are not so dazzled by gibsons trophies and achievements by the glowing headlines. The famous and influential World Leaders she met at the apex of her. Queen elizabeth Vice President Richard Nixon and secretary of state john foster dulles, for example, that we forget about the struggles for any athlete reaching the top is hard and staying there harder as gibsons shortly after her first triumphs at wimbledon and the u. S. Nationals. They say uneasy lies the head that wears the crown and in a sense thats but youre always because youre always a target. She was speaking of her competitors but it is easy to forget that gibson came to elite amateur tennis later than most of her stars in the game. Most of the stars in the game. She was 23 when she made her debut at forest in 1950 and at wimbledon in 1951. She was 29, 30 and 31 when she won her 11 grand slam titles. A multitude of younger players eager to beat her. And in 1958, some of did just that, making little slam as the chicago defender called it unlikely in the end en more remarkable. Yet gibson was just a target for established as well as up and coming opponents. She was also a target for criticism and for other peoples expectation that she represent africanamerican fans and the United States as a whole. By a misfit is antithesis of a representative. The two are paradoxical, and yet this is the situation. One might even say the impossible situation in which Althea Gibson found herself throughout her amateur tennis career. That expectation of representing, though, would have happened to anyone. This would have been called comfort. Comfort to gibson. And it is the truth. All that had come before her terms of race, class in tennis made it so. Here are a few examples. In 1929, the u. S. Althea denied Gerald Norman and reginald weir the opportunity to compete in the National Junior indoor championship for the following year. Norman was, the son of an nba founder who was also the executive secretary where was the National Junior champion . Both were black and played and against white players at their schools. A u. S. Lta explained in pursuing this policy, we make no reflection on the colored race, but we believe, as a practical matter, the present of separate associations for the administration of the affairs and championships of colored and white players should be continued. In the 1940s, parity jones, then the secretary of the Southern California tennis association, actively worked against allowing africanamericans to enter the Southern California tennis championships. Jones wrote to holcomb, the president of the u. S. Delta, to express his displeasure with what he called the growing strength of the influence in the region, a result of the large of who have moved to los angeles these last two years to work in defense plants during the war. These migrants had, and joness words created a very serious problem. The Southern California tennis association. Jones asked ward for advice on how the association can best proceed to effectively and legally prohibit from in our tournaments. Ward responded that he had no feeling against playing against any player white, black, yellow, providing he is a good. But ward added, if we attempt to break down social barriers too quickly, i believe more harm than good will result. Ward regarded africanamerican interest competing in the same tennis tournament as white players as becoming a serious problem, one that was, he said, filled dynamite. Jimmy mcdaniel, the 88 mens champion of 1939 through 1941. He would win in 1946 had inspired joness august field letter of prejudice as ward apparently unable to access an entry form for the tennis tournant. Mcdaniel had his own addssing it to it may concern. Recall ellis marbles visit to the Cosmopolitan Tennis Club in 1944 with Mary Hardwick that one of the few examples of white tennis professionals meeting africanamericans. The first occurred in 1914 when donald budge seen here the first man to win the single season grand, came to the cosmopolitan to face off against the eighth best male player, jimmy mcdaniel. It should be noted that those moments of integration were initiated by the actor, not the u. S. Althea, and typically involved again professionals, those who had the us all to often unhappily wear discussing amateur tennis today. But the socalled justifications, racial separation were the same sports. Those justice occasions were concerns about supposedly sullying the product and its value if black players met white in competition. Anxiety over the impact on supremacy. If black if a black fared well and even won. And of course the social implications of black people, white people on common ground. A sportswriter firm, fisher later observed acceptance on an amateur level means on a social level. The athlete who appears professionally can still be regarded a paid performer. The who appears on an amateur basis is then accepted on social level. This year was speaking of southern attitudes, but his idea ideas apply to the tradition world of amateur tennis. In private clubs across the country long before and well, Althea Gibson emerged emerged in the u. S. Nationals and the westside tennis club, its annual host site, were symbols of the gregation pervaded the sport. Forest hills the shorthand name for the u. S. Nationals presented very best in american tennis. After years of being played in newport, rho iand,he moved to new yorks west side tennis cl in 1915 and americas indeedheorlds best players, played and won there. The game was. The club was private and indicative. The history of the segregation practiced by American Country clubs did not admit africanamericans as members and indeed would not have them members for many more years. The u. S. Nationals, like west side, was understood to be elite, so no black person entered the tournament which was established. 1881. The notion that african were too gauche for tennis is captured in these lithographs published by currier ives 1885, as part of its socalled darktown series. If you are interested in taking a closer look at these images, can find them via the excellent web site that the International Tennis hall of fame has created for its breaking the barriers exhibit. The subtitles of the lithographs are a scientific player and a scientific stroke. But as you can see, there is nothing scientific or methodical about these players. And notice the garish apparel and the caricature it features. The message is clear. The very idea that africanamericans would play tennis, a game associated with grace, strategy and social, as well as intellectual sophistication was preposterous. Africanamerican were well aware of the stereotypes and the jokes and the way that both circulated freely through cultural products, including the lithographs keeping the walls of, segregation firmly in place. They relied upon kinds of strategies and hopes in their pursuit to bring about the end of their marginalization. The end of segregation since the civil war and even before many hoped that military service would lead liberty and justice for all as the pledge of allegiance states, this illustration by ollie herrington of the new york amsterdam ns conveys this point very well. Africanamericans not lacking in, as herrington writes loyalty and courage to fight for the United States. Spor have beenompared to war in battle, so this adds extra significance to the inset of harringtons illustration, where he observes the segregation of american sports. The same men who are expected to defend democracy, he writes, are barred because of color. And lets remember, just as those professional and college teams. Amateur sports were segregated. So was the american military. With the integration of major League Baseball and the return of African American men to professional football. After war, two many africanamerican sports enthusiasts held fast to an old idea that African American men demonstrations of excellence, strength, bravery, intelligence and speed in sports might bring about the end of prejudice and exclusion not just in sports, but in avenues of american life. This was the climate which Althea Gibson carried out her carrying to the expectation that she would be in words, a fine lady and excellent tennis player. In her skills, but also in manners. Her mentors from the black elite in new york, North Carolina and virginia impressed upon her the importance respectability, politics, the survival strategy and idea that marginalized communities adherence to a set of normative standard is associated with majority and idealized can reduce ostracism and discrimination and earn first class citizenship for their group. Gibson the selfdescribed wildest tomboy you ever saw learned to the part of the young middle class black lady, and she improved as a tennis player. She ascended to the number one ranking among women in the 80 and to the joy of many in the africanamerican media. She made it across the color line in. There was to be sure tremendous excitement about gibsons achievement in becoming the first white person to compete at forest hills. The Baltimore Afroamerican embraced gibson. We, as our top tennis player. The norfolk journaling guide felt that gibsons hard work had led tennis to join the parade of democracy in sports. Gibson wrote the etors of the chicago defender struck a blow for democracy that is still hoing in the snooty precincts, country clubs and exclusive sports throughout the land. Take a look at the illustration on the screen here. Chicago defender henry brown shows cle sam, the symbol of america, tipping his to salute gibson as john paul, symbol of england shields his eyes in displeasure and peaps even shame during the first round match in which gibsons english opponent, barbara knapp, lost. And quickly. Browns illustration perfectly captures the idea of gibson as a representative of america. Like the accompanying portrait which he has been made to look like when a famed illustrator, charles dana gibsons gibson girls who were supposed to represent the beauty employees of american women. But we know, of course, that althea gson did not fit the mold of one of charles dana gibsons girls. There were those felt that gibson just wasnt that her debut at. Forest hills was anomalous and hardly representative of all african. Since since the sport was considered a male. It was for many a foregone conclusion that sports would be led by africanamerican. This helps us the ock that emanated from the front pag headlines of two mainstream daily newspapers in new york titled tennis adms a girl player at the New York Times. The comma was a tool of emphasis, de the two words that followed it akin to a punch. The Herald Tribune was blatant, less blatant, but so new york International Tennis championship and sreboard underscored that gibsonas an anomaly. It is also worth noting that at 23, gibson was hardly a rl. But the use of the word showed the casual and normalized infantil ization to which women were routinely. The enthusiast zone for gibsons pol tohallenge racia and restrictions continued into the spring of 1951, when she invited to compete at wimb the prestigious tennis tournament in world. The black press. The news of gibson invitation. Her entry in the tournament was yet symbol of racial progress in sports and in society. Some white late sam lacy, the lead sportswriter, the Baltimore Afroamerican, remarked upon the class implications of her latest first gibson, a product harlems crowded tenement district was playing a sport favored by to be and blue bloods, he wrote, astonished that the king queen of england might even see her play. Lacey boldly thatns debut at wimbledon be one of the greatest advances our race has made in the history of athletics outshining the achievements jackinson, joe louis and jesse owens as the top accomplishment of any ten athlete in. Robinson. Louis owens had made their in Sports Associated with the working. But gibson played sport that was neither highly commercial nor for the crowd from the other side of the tracks. Others remarked upon the transnational significance of gibsons debut at wimbledon. In a sense, said the pittsburgh courier. Wimbledon will be providing world setting where gibsons presence will be indicating to players, spectators from all over the world that the american is coming fast and has arrived. Nevertheless, at least one sportswriter was not pleased. Gibsons position as the lone and female representative of africanamericans in tennis. Marion jackson of the atlanta daily world was irritated by the announcement that gibson would be the first black competitor at wimbledon. Jackson took a special cognizance of miss gibsons sex and, considered her leadership without the counterpart a first rate enigma. Jackson called for a and aggressive and immediate for the full inclusion of all sexes. In all tennis. Jacksons gusto for black men to excel in tennis reflected the gender politics of the black media. Since the 19th century, newspaper, newspaper had promulgated the concerns of black men believing that doing benefited the entire race. Racial uplift strategies, including sports integration, were generally predicated on demonstrate black masculinity. Gibsons rise and success first at forest hills and with her debut at wimbledon, was transgressive from a black patriarchal standpoint, a woman as the leading symbol of african in sports, gave credence to racist perceptions and stereotype of insufficient black manhood and racial backwardness. The search and hunger, an africanamerican man to be recognize as the best in tennis, would continue until arthur ashe s emergence in the 1960s. In 1955, the state department to gibson to represent the United States its hour of need. The kidnaping and murder of emmett till in in august led people the world for an either the first nor the last time to question americas commitment, equality, justice and fairness. Gibson traveled to asia that fall as one of four tennis players on a goodwill sponsored by the state department as racial propaganda to. Rehabilitate the image of america, gibson remained abroad until july 1956 and one dozens of titles in asia, north africa and including france, where won her first grand slam. Roland garros and two of her doubles majors, the french and wimbledon, with angela and all the while, more bad news about american Race Relations in the world, including the montgomery bus boycott, which brought rosa parks and Martin Luther king jr National Prominence and the that ensued at the university of alabama all because offering lucy a black woman had enrolled and sought to take classes like any one else. None other than the New York Times heaped praise on gibson for the winning way in which she had carried herself, including winning during that extended global tour. The paper of record called her a credit to the game an unusually good envoy for her. The United States, the times went on to say, was fortunate to have an Althea Gibson, the sort of representative that we need and want. She is part and parcel of the real america that works for what it gets and plays and well to win. Gibson status as a reluctant representative for africanamericans and the United States reached its nexus and apogee at four specific moments. The ticker tape parade in which she was the celebrant. In july 1957, after capture of her first singles, major at wimbledon, the trophy at the u. S. Nationals on 1957, the of 1957, when ebony the magazine of africanamerican culture, placed gibson on its cover for, october and at forest hills in september 58. There she is, seated atop that big american car, the chrysler convertible limousine, wearing a red blue dress pinned with a white flower. She, like the queen of america at the nationals. She received her trophy from richard, the Vice President , as the nation and the world were on yet another crisis, the coming mob resistance, the integration of Central High School in little rock, arkansas, leading some to ask, in essence whether the little rock nine and all thing gibson lived in the same country for they were being treated and received in very different ways. Ebony hailed her as tennis queen from harlem, and a year later, gibson received the forest hills trophy again this time from john foster dulles, the secretary of state, who told her, i give this to you a richly deserved honor and. We in the United States are proud that you earned it. The climate of american tennis and america was not conducive to gibsons in tennis in the 1950s, and yet she succeeded. Not overnight. She wanted and not as others, but nevertheless, she did. In yet another paradox of her life, gibson alternated between financial and independence. Gibson won her grand slams, the era of open tennis, which meant that players in the of amateurism competed for honor trophies, not for money. The sponsorship of the aita and the doctors gave the kind of backing that was necessary to make it an amateur tennis. Backing. It must be noted that other africanamericans had not previously known, but at a certain point she was on her own, trying make ends meet by saving the 12 to 15 per diems that the u. S. Lta allocated for players. 75 per month from her rackets, possibly under table payments and bills that friends pressed into her hands or tucked into cards and envelopes to help her. As for any the table payments, sexism limited what she may have received, male tennis players received more tournament organizers. Two things. First, that the public was simply more in seeing men compete since. Men, they reasoned, were just naturally at everything. And second men needed money and more of it because they had to support. Even though this was not universally the case. Well. Wanted to support her and siblings. She was 30 years old before she could afford an apartment of her own. What is more was a subject of camp jim crow. Though dissembling as a matter of survival and emotional as well as psychological preservation, she was reluctant to talk about it. New york had not been to her family with its own history of housing and employment discrimination. She faced discrimination seeking Hotel Accommodations in tournament towns, not just in the south and in the south. She sat, in the back of busses, seethed that lunch counters would take her money but not allow her to eat her meals. There and was irritated by movie theaters that told her where to sit. She was like millions of other black people who had limited access to health care and attended underresourced schools because of the reduced staff funds and care allocated to africanamerican. The media in the United States and abroad never tired of remarking on the color of her and comparing her body to all kinds of creaturespiders, panthers and tigers. She was even as can e, called the black. Her features were caricature. Spectators called her slurs. She was nied access to locker rooms and people, black and white made fun of the texture of her hair time, time again. Some members of, the press showed that they could not acknowledge that gibson was good. They also had to blend insults, praise and distasteful references. Her perceived racial differences differences. Gibson rose fell and rose again in tennis in an era of heightened racial solidarity after World War Two and in the early years of the civil rights movement. People consistently sought to see her as actively as consciously battling to prove something about. Each time took to the tennis court and certainly every time she won those five grand slam singles titles. Gibson however was consistent that this was not the case after lost dramatically in the second round at forest hills in 1950. Reporters wanted know whether she had thought about herself as representing all africanamericans during the match. I just think about it, she said. She followed the same course in 1951 at wimbledon. I said myself, althea, all have to do is watch the ball. Dont look around at everyone and laud the fact that youre the black to do this or that, or youll forget why youre here. Just concentrate on at the ball. While touring the state department, gibson saw herself as playing for the United States and as playing for herself thanks to a once in a lifetime opportunity to rebound competitively personally. She was annoyed by what she called her quite involuntary role as an instrument of international policy. She wanted to be, as she said, allowed to play tennis. Win or lose with the same purely individual responsibility assigned to anyone. And so her career and all that she wanted. Gibson deflected questions about inequality and racial strife in america. Telling those who wanted to know weve got a problem. As all countries and all states and individuals have. But its a problem that certainly can be solved. And that, i firmly believe will be solved. She irritated, members of the africanamerican press. Late in the summer of 1956, when she told a New York Times correspondent in london, im just another tennis player, not a tennis player. Of course i am a. Everybody knows that. But you say somebody is a white tennis player. You. To some in the africanamerican media, gibsons remarks suggested that she was not proud to be black. Gibsons attitude her approach and her chutzpah filled candor explained in part why i decided to call the book serving herself. Gibson statements race her devotion to, giving her all and to challenging herself to reach the heights of tennis for herself and for herself alone. Put her at odds with social expectations of africanamerican women who were expected to the race by a beatific league looking after the men. After men and children in their lives, as well as the religious and Community Organizations in their orbits unmarried until the age of 38. Free of children traveling the world and always focused on her own career goals in tennis, golf, acting, singing and public speaking, gibson did not heed the call of altruism and sacrifice that characterized the lives of so many generations of black women who found in the powerful interracial mandate to serve others being selffocused, relentless and resilient. Led gibson to cross the color barrier at the elite level and not just one sport, but in two, one was hard enough. But to how many other athletes have that . Even i have written this very thick book ten years in the making. I have still more thoughts about Althea Gibson. Several times it has occurred to me i could write the quotable Althea Gibson across than 40 years in public life. Gibson said many things that showed her sense of humor, charisma and confidence. In 1975, while looking back her career, for example, gibson told an interviewer that she had been a killer and a thriller. During her tennis career career, she could also grab ones attention. Poignant observations between the late 1970s and early 1980s, gibson told zina garrison, who was only a teenager then, that she had to be far better than everyone else. And even then, garrison would probably find herself in a situation where being the best wasnt good enough. Gibson knew this all too well. After she won wimbledon and the nationals for the first time in 1957. Many reporters in the United States and the United Kingdom resisted calling her the best player in womens tennis. But perhaps my favorite lines among the many that Althea Gibson said and wrote. The years were published in in august 1960. As perhaps se of, you know, guideposts was and is the magazine founded by the popular minister and motivated speaker Norman Vincent peale. Gibson was a woman of faith and spirituality, and indeed she would lean on her faith to get through some difficult times during and after her tennis career. And gibsons essay she said the followg. Its a hardhing to keep coming back after time in the face of defeat. If you were convinced of the merit of your goal, and if you want to reach it enough paying the price of embarrassment is not so hard. When do you feel that your goa is worth the price . You can stand an amazing amount of embarrassment, defeat and fatigue. The line is the essence of gibson, of her independ. Its her relentlessness and her resilient spirit. Its the talk that she talked her in the low points of her tennis career when people criticized her and counted out. Its what she did long after she left the amateur game and saw it, to use a phrase to keep body and soul together. But also as she pursued excellence in the face of one challenge after another. In our time of anxieties, hardships and they might just be words to live by. Thank you. For the question. Thank you so much. And congratulations on that wonderful effort that youve put forth. Thank you. You mentioned the cosmic cosmopolitan in new york. There were several benefactors that helped soften some of rough edges. Can you comment on the role that dr. Putin and wilmington, north coast, north might have played a similar role . Gladly gladly. So, dr. Eaton, thats dr. Hubert ayton, the senior. He has a remarkable story. And hope that among many things, this book will lead more people to take an interest in him and in his legacy. Dr. Ethan, a tennis enthusiast, he had been a junior champion of the 80. In early 1930s, he was a doctor, as you can tell from from his title. But whats remarkable remarkable about that, that he estimated that he was one of only perhaps 50 African Americans to a predominantly white school or college when he enrolled at the university of Michigan Medical School in the late 1930s. He met Althea Gibson. He saw her for first time in 1945, and then in 1946, he watched compete in the womens finals, the 88 championship at Wilberforce College in ohio. His good friend and compatriot. In this unified effort, Althea Gibson was dr. Robert walter. He was from lynchburg, virginia. And gibson lost singles final, but they were not put off by that. They thought that she had terrific potential. They approached her after the match, she was pretty dejected because she heard from a lot of people were part of the aita. But specifically a part of the cosmopolitan that they were disappointed in her. They thought that she should have won, but the doctors had much bigger and a wider view than that and they had plan and gibson went along with it. She needed to finish high school. She dropped out of school when she was about 14 years old. They that she could move with dr. Eaton and his family and wilmington carolina spend the Academic Year with him with his family train with him in the afternoon on weekends on saturday they took sunday off she would finish school and get her High School Degree and she would spend summers with dr. Johnson at dr. Johnsons home in lynchburg. They would start off there and then they would spend summers playing the eighth circuit across, the country. It was a remarkable arrangement. No other africanamerican had ever had this. And it explains in part why it took so long to push the walls of segregation tennis, because, quite honestly, it took money. And so many people really, they didnt have that. She lived with the eaton family and she she was a member of the family. You know, dr. Eaton refers to her his his own autobiography. He called every man should try. He called her a foster child. She referred to him in letters as dad, referred to his wife, celeste, as mom when she went off to college to florida a m in 1949, it was a rocky first semester for a number of reasons, one of which was the fact that she was homesick. She missed the eaton family and dr. Eaton and dr. Johnson stood by her and supported her. Things could be rocky at times because this was a young adult person trying to find her way in the world. She never forgot them, despite what some people, the africanamerican media wanted to this idea that after she succeeded tennis, that shed gotten, you know, that old phrase too big for her britches. I dont think that was necessarily the case. When she won wimbledon for the first time in 1957, she sent a telegram to both doctors praising and thanking them for the support that they had given. Later on, in 1959, that spring, when she was at sea, trying to figure out what she would do because no one was offering her a contract to play professional tennis, she spent part of that spring with dr. Just getting his his counsel and his advice and later years she would sometimes if she found in the south in North Carolina she would visit with spend time with dr. Johnson. So this was a close in a deep a deep relationship. Thank you very much for that. Does that list haleys. Your presentation brings to the forefront what previous writings of her has that she was extra namely disciplined in those tennis years and shes never portrayed with that discipline and that amazing folk and i wondered you had some other things about that to show. I do. I appreciate this question because in putting together this talk, how, you know, only had so many minutes, theres only so much that i could say. Dr. Aden said that gibson put untold hours into her tennis game. And i like her question because i think, yes, a lot people have missed that she was a lot of things. But was a diehard athlete and she rubbed some people the wrong way as die hard athlete. But she knew very well that you had to be so focused and lets just say it you have to be selfcentered to reach the top in sports of a lot of arent really altruistic right. But she wouldnt have traded those trophies and those titles for anything and she said in an interview that she gave in the early 1980s that, yes, there were number of social things that she couldnt do because of segregation in tennis. She said, yes, that a reality, but she chose to put her thoughts and her energy into Getting Better and playing with her sparring partner and playing for hours and hours on end. She couldnt do kind of social thing. She would call up her and they would talk about strategies that. She could deploy for her matches and then speaking strategies. She was an absolute master of playing her tennis matches and then going to scout the matches of possible old opponents for the future. This is something that dr. Eaton impressed upon that she carried out throughout her career of playing and watching the other players so that she could get a sense of maybe techniques that she could learn, but also some insight into perhaps what their weaknesses were so that she could beat them, she could exploit those weaknesses the next time they met. Racket work in tennis and all of the racket sports is key to being good player. Ive seen clips of althea playing and she has these marvelous flowing strokes. Was there a principle or especially coach in her career who taught her that beautiful technique . She had a few coaches. Fred johnson was her very first at the Cosmopolitan Tennis Club. She credited with, she said, putting her on the path to making her the champion that she became. Later on there was a little bit of controversy because when she took up with Sidney Llewellyn in the early mid 1950s. He worked with her to encourage her to work on to change grip. That also explains the rather kind of low dip in form that she took right between 1951. And when she finally starts clawing back. By 1956 was a tough adjustment. She really she wasnt into the visual right. So fred johnson noted that she wasnt always the most studious player in terms of giving her, say, a book or something to study the moves. But she was really quite strong when it came to watching what other folks were. And she was known for those groundstrokes for her just terrific forehand. She was very proud of her serve. She loved the overhead smash and i dont know if they called it trash talk back then, but the story goes that a reporter said maybe during a q a question on the strength of her backhand, perhaps he said it was weak. She found him after the press of that, and she told him that her backhand was doing just fine. She loved practicing with the male players and just again, back to the work of, dr. Eaton and dr. Johnson and just getting her out there day after day and just telling her, you know, this is what youve got to do. You want to win. Did she play with the arthur. That would be something to see. They played doubles together in 1971 at the u. S. Open, and that is an important year because thats the year that dr. Johnson died. And as some of you in the room, perhaps know, dr. Johnson was a great mentor to arthur ashe. So Althea Gibson ashe, arthur ashe have a deal in common specifically dr. Johnson. So they decided to play doubles in the u. S. Open in 1971, they didnt do very well, but that was something that they did in part as a tribute. Dr. Johnson. Who assisted. Ive learned so much tonight i also think she set yourself up for other athletes who dont go the twilight gracefully and she she should have done that. I mean, she went from tennis to go. I think, fascinating that she was able to transfer that and stay herself and i think all that discipline that you im sort of interested in her later life. Oh yes Althea Gibson was a workhorse she had the work ethic. That is thats for sure. She moved her golf because really so many doors were closed to her in professional tennis. So the pro tennis that we know today, it doesnt look anything like tennis did 60 and 65 years ago. Certainly for the amateurs, but also not for the pros. She faced discrimination in the travels that she did with her pro group. So some of you might also be aware that gibson did ultimately turn pro october of 1959. Abe, sam, christine, the owner of the harlem globetrotters, gave her a contract and she traveled for several months between fall of 1959 and the early spring of 1960. She played on a really a two person pro tennis trip with carol figueroa, who had been her her teammate on the state department in 1955 and 1956. That rough going and it was also somewhat unsatisfying because even though ferraros and gibson were friends, carol ferraros was not gibsons equal at all when it came to winning. So gibson herself playing and making money, though certainly not the of money that the men had made making their tours and prototypes. But she really wasnt challenged in the way that she wanted to be challenged. And i think that yen for challenge but also to other things and interest in and making money as a professional and also just staying around and being able be satisfied as as an athlete. Those were the things that led her to turn to professional golf and as youll see when you read the book she certainly transferred much of what she learned in of integration tactics ways to deal with the stress pressure but also her work work ethic. She brought those things to her golf career. Working. So she had great achievement. And what basically two White Country Club sports and did she face similar or different barriers between tennis and golf, similar and more similar or different that she faced in tennis and golf . Or was it the same or was it different barriers that she faced . I would say that they were the same, but also different. And then maybe you could add a few so in the of golf. Theres more think there were more difficulties in a few ways. First of all, she came to the game later. So shes dealing with playing with folks who had taken up the game when they were teens when they were, you know even young girls. So they had more experience. And she found the celebrity that she had that she had earned through tennis didnt necessarily lead to doors for her in golf. And theres a crucial between the gibson of the 19 the middle 1960s and the gibson of the 1950s, which is i think she was definitely impacted by the rhetoric, discourse of the civil rights movement. So she earned her playing card, her lpga card in 1964. And after that, when she still finds that there were tournaments that would not allow her to play at the lpga tour, was going to clubs and having and the folks who ran those tournaments were not allowing her to play because she was africanamerican. She put up with it for a time and then ultimately she spoke out and just seemed like a very different gibson than the one that most people have been familiar with. And she started saying, you know, it was thing when you i played as an amateur, but this is Something Else entirely. The inability to play those tournaments placed further pressure on her game. So the lpga typically traveled through the south the early part of the season. Gibson could play in perhaps one or two events in florida after when the circuit moved to mississippi, alabama, georgia, south carolina, kentucky. She went weeks without playing. She up and so machinations of discussions took place and things began to change. So she could play more often. It put a little bit pressure on her to and to do well, but she was effectively selffunded during her career in golf. Sponsors were not, you know, opening their coffers to support her or to offer her endorsement contracts. She had to. The golf one was with dunlop, which still exists. She was a Public Relations representative for the world banking company, but she found after five years that work wanted see her do more in terms of out and meeting people and talking about their business and their product. This was at odds with goal of having a corporate sponsor who would support her as she would say during the lean times to help her on golf circuit. So in some ways, it was as if she. What is that expression about out of the fire, the frying pan and into the fire . In some ways applies to her experience when she moved into. Your question . I think. Thank you. Good evening, maam. My name is william edmonds. I serve as a Navy Chaplain here at naval station newport and, a lover of all things tennis. And i want to thank you so much for your, you know, just sharing with us. This is inspiring. I honestly feel like ive experienced a moment in history right now. So thank you for that read, dr. Work read arthur ashe, his memoir. And they talk about this list, namely arthur ashe, about being a black athlete. And some of the just unspoken challenges that you just got to face and. I think tennis in life go hand in hand. And i think about Althea Gibson ive seen the documentary about her life and as awesome as it was, it was kind of disappointing on the way her life ended and so i was wonder if you can kind of youve a bit about it but just the Mental Health challenges Mental Health has become like a buzz word now. And you know naomi osaka has, you know, took time and she got fired for it. But its so important. And its like althea gibbs didnt have that luxury, even though im she experienced those things. So if you can kind of talk a little about that, also, if you can talk a little bit about, i know how Serena Williams is farther always talk and not to call balls out because of playing this sport in these environments, youre going to these unspoken challenges being a black athlete. So could you please touch on those things . Certainly. So two points. First on Mental Health and second on maybe these unwritten rules for africanamerican athletes, specifically in gibsons case, when the title is context on Mental Health. She she found herself feeling down at times. You definitely see it when she finds her game going downhill after wimbledon in 1951. She wins a few tournaments, international tournaments. When she comes back from missouri, when she left her teaching position, won a position. I want to tournament in new york in the summer of 1955. But to gibson and to a lot of other people, these were not the big tournament. These were not the grand slams. And she she was definitely emotionally at a low point because she felt that she just could not break through. She could not win the one. So she wanted to the letter to be lost to time. But she had a difficult time when she traveled to australia for the state department during the fall winter of 1956, 1957. Fortunately, she had a good companion a good friend and shirley frey, who had been her rival, but they became friends. That state Department Tour and they room together and they seemed to have these nice late night chats and that friendship stands out because it gives and shes not the only athlete or person who felt this way. She i think had a hard time being friends who were better players. So this brief friendship with shirley fry stands out because its a moment when she really seemed to enjoy spending time with and taking advice from someone who had been her on a number of important occasions. The letters that i referred, she she had a rough time in australia. I mentioned during the talk that sometimes people would call things for her. Someone in the crowd in australia seemed to think it would be funny to tell her to let her hair down, which for her was that, was a very sensitive comment, something that came up again and again and you still see it in various sources that i talk about in the book but she wrote to dr. Johnson or pardon me to dr. Ito i dont know what he wrote back to her, but along the way she just thanked him and said you basically your letters during that time a lot to me and they helped me get through a rough moment and. Then in 1960, 1961, 62, when shes doing the work for ward, shes not playing tennis anymore. Shes not competing and that way that was just so ingrained much a part of her identity. Shes doing the for ward and then she writes in her second memoir that she would very often just go back to the hotel where she happened to be and just go straight to bed. She doesnt use the word depression. And of course, i want to make sure i dont use that word carelessly, but its very clear when Somebody Just works and theyre smiling and they put on a good face for the public, and then they go alone if theyre not in a good place. And i think this is another reason why golf was so important to her was because got her help out into the open air. And i think one of the reasons it was difficult for her to leave golf was because she she associated it with i think really some kind of spiritual being the spiritual element to second point about maybe restrictions that she faced in tennis she gives gibson she didnt follow dr. Johnsons rule which was that you you didnt challenge lyons persons and the umpire you know the person in the chair she did it. She didnt go along with that. Or at least she go along with it for a long. And in one of her more dramatic matches, she played against Maureen Connolly at forest hills in 1953. And connolly writes about this in her book, forehand drive. Gibson just, just seemed to lose her composure because she was just so frustrated by being called for one foot forward after another after another. And this happened in several matches during her career and. Maureen connolly thought that gibson was had finally just decided that she would act out, deliberate to challenge the lyons person who kept doing this. And she never said that she felt that it was racially motivated. She said that at least at the time any of the calls, but in the 1980s, she observe that she sometimes wondered what was going on, that this thing about her feet and about space right, kept happening again and again and. She also said in the 1980s and it was an essay, perhaps she she also spoke this to people but she that she knew that she could it raise her voice about things that her in the way that athletes course including tennis. Were doing in the 1970s in the 1980s because she did feel that there a number of people who didnt want her in tennis the first place and they were effectively looking for a reason to get her out. And if she spoke about anything that she felt that happened to her, that unfair, that that would really be the thing that that they needed to try to pull the plug on her career. Oh, well, maybe one more. All right. Okay okay. Hi. Im sorry. Is it on. I have one short story, which is how i came across. Matthew gibson. I was reading about a gentleman. Lenny simpson. Yes who lived in the adjoining and the story of his mother and father said cannot over and father down there practicing. And this gentleman was a short time instructor. So new jersey who taught my and she would come home and said momma never had an instructor like lenny what the story was lenny would be up the hedge looking at arthur ashe and althea practicing. And one day she came over and she said, when are you going to come join us, children . And he said he ran home and said she wants. So the story was he then went back to sit at the doctors house. He was also she gave him his first racket, which kind of shows the kind of person was. And she was very interested in his career, which i think theres also a new book out now, but i have found this so interesting to tie so many loose ends together for me. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for history, for bringing this, for speaking way. You speak. Its amazing. I you very much for sharing your story. I met lennie samson and i hope hes hes doing well. And i understand hes published his autobiography i think and my daughters following. And so she went over to see him and we started, dont remember, you get some tennis and think about you. Thats a lot of tennis for her. Thats right. And one love i its my understanding that the students there wrote letters that were instrumental in some way and encouraging the the commission of of course the monument thats now there on the grounds of the King National tennis center. Yes. And hes redone the house and the tennis court. Just fabulous. Thank you so much. Well, thank you all so much. Thank you, ashley this was wonderful