Transcripts For CSPAN2 Understanding Trump 20170702

Washington correspondent of the star ledger and a past president of the club. Columnist george will once said that the late senator Daniel Patrick moynihan of new york wrote more books than most senators had read. Todays guest, former House Speaker newt gingrich, has written even more books than senator moynihan. But remember, there are four times more house members than there are senators. Speaker ing given is gingrich is here to talk about his latest book, understanding trump. Well speak for about 20 minutes and then take audience. If you have not previously purchased a book, please do so now. Proceeds benefit the National Press Club Journalism institute that does journalism trading and helps the club. Before we begin, please turn off or silence your cell phones. Id first like to acknowledge the members of the Headliners Team responsible for organizing the event x. If youre in the audience, please stand and be recognized. Betsy fisher martin. Lisa matthews, lori russo. Heather weaver. Bill pearce. Joe [inaudible] be frank massano, and wendy underwood. Thank you all. [applause] i first met speaker gingrich 40 years ago when i staked out a town hall meeting he was holding outside of atlanta to ask him about whether new york governor mario cuomo would play in the south if he ever ran for president. Cuomo never did run, but speaker gingrich did in 2012 and, for a while, led opinion polls. In fact, i got to spend a week with you in florida while you were running. In the interim, this former professor of history became a historical figure himself, leading a successful effort to end 40 years of democratic control of the house and become speaker in 1995. He resigned following the impeachment of president clinton and the unusual loss of house seats in the sixth year in the term of a president in the opposition party. Speaker gingrich never reached the white house, but the candidate he supported did. Despite polls up until election day showing Hillary Clinton ahead and site like 538. Com giving her a better than 70 chance of becoming the first female president , donald trump wound up as the nations 45th chief executive. From his perch as a top trump adviser and someone till close to the white house still close to the white house, speaker gingrich is in a unique position to discuss what makes this billionaire businessman with no previous political experience tick. In fact, the speaker points out in his week, understanding trump, President Trump is the first chief executive with no previous political experience, never ran for office before, came right out of the business world. As the blurb reads, this is, quote the first book written about the world of President Trump by someone whos actually a part of it, unquote. Speaker gingrich, thank you for coming. [applause] since weve both been in washington, its usually the establishment candidate who wins the republican nomination over the insurgent. George Herbert Walker bush, bob dole, george w. Bush, john mccain and mitt romney over you in 2012. But in 2016 donald trump emerged victorious. What changed between 2012 when you were the insurgent and 2016 when donald trump played that role and won . Well, i would say, first of all, that the in 64 goldwater won the nomination against the entire establishment. And in 80 reagan won the nomination. And those were, in fact, the precursors to trump as i think the contract with america was in 94. So i feel a little bit fortunate in in i worked with reagan both as candidate and president while i was in congress. We led the contract with america, and now you have trump. So i think the three actually have a continuity despite the traditional establishment. A couple things. I mean, first of all, trump is just a lot better candidate than i am. And i think you have to start with that. Hes a unique phenomenon. At one point he called and asked me for advice on debating, and i laughed at him. I said im not going to give you any advice. I said you have a unique style, you are stunningly effective, and if you tried to learn what i do, youd get totally screwed up. Just do, be who you are, do what you do. And i actually think hes a better debater than i am if you measure the audience rather than sort of a princeton debate system, to cite ted cruz. I think, second, romney had an enormous advantage. I beat romney in South Carolina, and they spent about 15 million beating me in florida. And they knew it was life and death. I mean, there was actually a New York Times story about one of romneys advisers the day after South Carolina saying if you dont eviscerate gingrich, he is going to be the nominee. And that may have been true. I didnt have the resource advantage. Trump had enough resources at any time you couldnt knock him out. But in addition, trump did something i couldnt have done. I look back on it as one of the great acts of genius in american politics, comparable to fdr inventing the fireside chat. Trump, what nobody in this city this is part of why i wrote understanding trump. Nobody understands this. Donald j. Trump had a prime Time Television show for 13 years. It was the top show in the country for four years. Now, because it wasnt on pbs and because it didnt follow downton abbey, nobody in this city underthat. [laughter] understood that. So nobody in the city said the day he announced a guy who knows television that well is by definition formidable. And what trump had learned and he writes about this in the art of the deal pretty decisively. What trump had learned in new york in the 80s was that any publicity which printed your name correctly built strength. And so he was happy and this is part, i actually think he should modify what hes doing in terms of the tweets and all that. Ive told him, i think 10 less trump would be 100 more effective. But he had figured out early on that if he could engage the media, that the hunger of the 24houraday cable news system and the power of facebook and twitter meant that he could just take all the air out of the room. So all of these other guys are running around raising money in order to be able to buy tv ads to be on television. Trump would get up in the morning, he would tweet. That would then set up his argument with mt. Morning joe. Hed call in to morning joe, and theyd argue for 25 minutes. Then theyd call into fox friends, and theyd have a love fest for 25 minutes. [laughter] then he would have breakfast. Hes already generated so all morning the medias covering the argument that trumps in the middle of. Then about ten in the morning he would do a press event to keep the momentum up, and about ten in the evening he would do about an hour on hannity for free. So hes at about 1 million free media. Meanwhile, all of his competitors are off the air, running around the country trying to raise money to get on the air. And what was happening was the sheer name id. Theres only one poll in the entire campaign where trumps not ahead for the nomination. People tend to forget this. He was the frontrunner from the day he announced except for one poll where dr. Carson pulled ahead. And yet nobody in the elite media could say and silvers an interesting example. Nobody in the elite media could say to themselves if hes the frontrunner every single poll, could it be hes the frontrunner . [laughter] because everybody in the washington elite knew he couldnt be the frontrunner, because then everything they believed in would be crazy. And since they couldnt be crazy, he had to be crazy. And if he was crazy, he couldnt be the frontrunner even though he was the frontrunner. [laughter] this went on. So im in a situation where im watching these socalled experts who, by the way, have learned nothing. I mean, the stuff you get on tv today is as stupid and as wrong as the people who laughed when he announced, the people who laughed in the primaries, the people who laughed at the convention, the people who laughed in the general election. They havent learned anything because they cant, because its a repudiation of their own life. So their choice is i can believe in a fantasy which at least validates me, or i can decide the world has really changed dramatically and that invalidates me. I pick the fantasy. And thats literally where we are right now which dramatically itll be interesting to see how the dance continues for the next three years, because i think gradually trump will figure out an angle to break out of all of this in a way that will be historic. Its still happening. Youre saying that people havent learned from the campaign. No. Look at the whole russian fantasy. You know, what happened Election Night was the democrats said hillary cant have lost. And, certainly, donald trump cant have won. So somebody cheated. I wonder putin cheated. Do you realize this is all putins fault . And that means there must have been collusion. Do you realize they must have colluded . So for the last six months, everybody on the left has been Walking Around town chanting watch for the russian connection, look for the collusion. Turns out even dianne feinstein, the ranking democrat on the intelligence committee, says there is zero evidence of collusion. So now the newest one is, ah, but there was obstruction of justice over the collusion. [laughter] so the fantasy that didnt occur is now being replaced by, by the way, technically the president of the United States cannot obstruct justice. President of the United States is the chief executive officer of the United States. If wants to fire the fbi director, all hes got to do is fire him. Somebody said the other day if john f. Kennedy had fired j. Edgar hoover over investigating and wiretapping Martin Luther king jr. , would people have thought it was obstruction . Be so, you know, so theres not really collusion. So whats the latest leak to the Washington Post whose record, by the way, of running anonymous leaks is actually beating the New York Times. Its an enormous achievement. And i give the post credit [laughter] that in their energy and enthusiasm, they have been even more consistently wrong than the times, which is actually in the olympics of stupidity, an enormous challenge. [laughter] so the latest thing is mueller, who will not be able to get anything on russia or obstruction, is now going to look at finances. And what youre seeing, obviously, is exactly this is why when i was speaker i opposed renewing the independent counsel act. You bring in a whole bunch of highpriced lawyers, they give up their regular career, theyre going to find somebody. And the fitzgerald case where comey brought in the godfather to his children, fitzgerald, in order to appoint him a special counsel when they knew there was no crime because, in fact, Valerie Plame had already been was no longer a protected name at the cia, and they knew who had done it, Richard Armitage had leaked it. And they still appointed an independent counsel who promptly decided his mission was to get dick cheney. I mean, it is the most grotesque example of a miscarriage of justice and the danger of power of the government. You go back and look at that case, thats why i am very worried about mueller. Not that muellers a bad person. Hes a patriot. Muellers a guy who served with great distinction in vietnam. Mueller i have no doubt that he is a person who is going to do his best. But he is surrounding himself with a collective group of people who are going to engage in a witch hunt. And i encourage everybody to actually read arthur millers the crucible which is about the witchcraft trials in the late 17th century in salem. And understand thats the mentality of the left right now. The left right now is engaged in the salem witchcraft process of we know somebodys evil, i wonder who we should burp at the stake burn at the stake. I had two young ladies, i gave a speech earlier this year at cornell, and two young ladies who were in the College Republicans said to me for an entire week after the election, if you smiled, people yelled at you because it was inappropriate to smile when donald trump had won. You know, my i know the crucible. My son is a student at Walter Johnson high school, got to play in that yeah. The whole thing. And i really do think thats the mood of the left right now. Let me ask you, this is the press club. Let me ask you a press question. You talked about the investigation into President Trump. When you became speaker, you faced an ethics investigation right after you took office. The reason i bring this up is during all of that time you never threatened gene cummings of the Atlanta Journalconstitution who had broken so many stories, you never called those of you who staked you out at the Ethics Committee meetings, and i was one of them, enemies of the people. You never called any of the information that leaked out fake news. Whats different today . Why does President Trump react the way he does to the press . Which is certainly different than you and everybody else has. I think a couple of differences. First of all, let me just say for all of you because this is ancient history when i got elected, the cover of time and newsweek, both covers the week before the election was angry white man. For those of you who wonder the left keeps all these things in a drawer. They pull them back out. Lets use that one again. The week after i was elected, i was on the cover of Time Magazine as scrooge you can look this up holding tiny tims broken crutch. It wasnt enough i stole the crutch, i broke the crutch. [laughter] and title of the Time Magazine cover was how mean will gingrichs america be to the poor. That was followed a week later by newsweek having me on the cover as a dr. Seuss figure and the title was the grinch that stole christmas. This was my entry into press neutrality in the modern era. In fact, those two covers didnt hurt me at all, because they sent a signal to the middle class that we were for welfare reform, and the middle class thought, well, thats really cool. Im glad. So now we get to one of the mistakes of my career. Democrats filed 83 charges against me. 82 of the charges were dismissed. And the truth is by the third charge, i should have filed a charge against the people who were doing it. Because it was a deliberate political abuse of the ethics process, and i should have moved, frankly, to expel them. Thats a mistake on my part, because they knew they were phony, they knew they were absurd, but they also knew and this is what trump faces they knew its a constant repetition. Something must be wrong. If somebody files 8 82 charges against you the one charge, and by the way, we won against the federal Election Commission and against the irs. So when i talk about the deep state, i have lived this, okay . Now, the one charge they got me on is a letter written by the law firm which had a mistake. It was clearly a mistake which i should not have signed where i said go pac had never done anything that was federal, and clearly they had. Thats the one thing they got me on. This is why i warned the white house to be very careful. We turned over a million pages to an independent counsel. Who had been hired by the Ethics Committee who later became the assistant attorney general for barack obama. You can imagine his bias. Okay . A million pages. And then we sat down to be interviewed, and he could pick anything out of the million pages. And if i was wrong, i could be guilty of perjury or on to instruction of obstruction of justice. You try sometime to remember four years ago at 3 00 in the afternoon when youre in a meeting with 22 people did you say x. And thats what theyre up against. This is very dangerous, and i keep telling everybody at the white house this is not like new York Real Estate law. This is criminal law. These people are coming after you to put you in prison. And you need to be very careful, and you need to listen to your lawyers. And i say this as much to the president as anybody. This is not a game. Im not the history professor, but in terms of history lessons, go pac was a group the speaker had set up to recruit, basically, elect republicans to state office and basically build a farm team as you look at the republican majority. A lot of those folks started off as state, people who were elected in part with help from go pac. Thats right. And it turned out to be very successful. Well, we were not a big enough party to compete nationally. And after 1985 we decided we had to dramatically grow the system in order to be competitive. We were like a midsized college team in the super bowl. And if we were going to ever beat the took us 40 years of being in the minority, took me 16 years to create the majority, literally. Sixteen years. We tried every two years. We lost in 80, 82, 84, 86, 88 when people say 94 was a great year, i say, yeah, you should have seen the earlier ones. Wed been trying every single year from the time i got elected in 78. When the republicans had the majority in the congress in the 90s, bill clinton a democrat wound up working with you on welfare reform, wound up working with you on spending cuts and tax cuts, and you wound up balancing the budget. President trump had an opportunity to do that as well. He talked about the 1 trillion infrastructure program. Democrats offered to work with him on fixing that, repealing the Affordable Care act, and yet the president has not taken advantage of that, and that forced chuck schumer, the head of the senate democrats, and nancy pelosi, the head of the house democrat, to sit down and negotiate. Hes attacked them and gone his own way. Do you think he missed an opportunity to reach out, or do you think it wouldnt have mattered . I think in term obviously the Affordable Care act Affordable Care act, it wouldnt matter. Any democrat would by definition be hit by a primary and probably defeated in the primary. So i dont think that was plausible. I think that on infrastructure they have a real opportunity to work with democrats, and i suspect they will get a substantial number of democratic votes. On, for example, on Veterans Administration reform, theyve been carrying very large majorities of both parties in the house and senate. On medical research theyve been carrying very large majorities. Excuse me. So its not, its not inevitable that they be isolated. But when you get to tax policy, part of it depends when schumer and pelosi say wed like to work with you, whats the entrance fee, you know . If the entrance fee is we really dont want Corporate Tax rates at 20 , well, youre not going to cooperate. We really dont want something which brings back 2 trillion in money thats tied up overseas. Youre not you know, you go through a list of these things. So i think it depends on i believe they can gradual hi pick off individual gradually pick off democrats, and i believe the infrastructure bill is the best place to start that process. You keep talking in your book and now youre talking about how the left is so out to get trump. It was john mccain, whos nobodys idea of a liberal, who said a scandal engulfing the trump administration. Lindsey graham has criticized the administration. Other republicans, you know sure. The newspaper, the Washington Post, the former Bush Administration columnists are antitrump. Its not just the left, right . The its trump, look, there are a i dont know where you fit mccain and graham into this. Theyre clearly on the, among the literatety of the right, the people who write precious columns and articles and think deep thoughts. [laughter] they are, and then george will is one of my favorite examples. Will is a torrey. He likes an elegant world. He likes things to be done in an appropriate way. Trumps very existence offends him. I mean, trump by wills standard is a baffoon. I mean, he talks at a fourth grade level, you know . Hes not he cant be a serious man. And i start, because im a historian, i start from a totally different angle which is i figure a guy who wins a successful hostile takeover of the Republican Party and thats what it was, it was a hostile takeover then wins a hostile takeover of the National Government beating both the media and hillary aint a baffoon. He may have a style thats different, but he aint a baffoon. This is a very serious man. And thats why i wrote understanding trump in part to say to people its always worth trying to understand a president on their own terms. How did they i had the same thing about obama. Or clinton or jimmy carter. Youve got to say what is it they do right and what is it they understand that we didnt in and i think so the literati, the people who write National Review and stuff like that, theyre all, you know, their noses are out of joint. Theyre offended. He probably doesnt drink chablis. [laughter] and he doesnt, actually, drink. There are so many ways in which trumps just so wrong. I mean, its like a reporter came up to me one day and said when do you think hes going to start becoming president ial . And i said, actually, he did on january 20th. [laughter] because by definition what the president does is president ial. And that was such a shocking idea to this person, because they had a model of president ial that didnt relate to how donald trump acts. Let me ask you one last question before we throw it open to the audience, and thats opinion polls. Weve all written hes at record lows. If you were advising him, wait a second, since you do advise him, what would you suggest . What should he do, if anything, to bring up those numbers . Communicate directly with the american people. Ignore not waste his time and energy fighting over junk like the russian stuff, focus on communicating about jobs where hes done a pretty good job already, focus on communicating about infrastructure. Focus on communicating about a Better Health future. Focus on communicating about tax cuts to create more jobs. I mean, there are positive things that theyre doing. I mean, they ought to spend a full week on the Veterans Administration. They have already this year done so many things both with the congress, in all fairness. The Republican House and senate have passed more reform legislation for veterans this year than ever in history. Already done in the first five months. But none of its going to be covered by the elite media. So they need to figure out a strategy, as reagan would have, to ma knewically focus if they ma knewically focus if they did a rally talking about the great achievements in reform, by the end of the week people would begin to go, oh, they must have done something right. Were learning what his base is, its between 3941. With everything the times says, everything the post says, everything that cbs news says, his way is 3941 his base is 3941. Mayor bloomberg said the other day he fully expects him to get reelected. I love saying during trumps second term [laughter] i mean, it just you see people in the audience who start quivering. [laughter] their mind cant adjust to that concept. Lets throw it open to questions. Please identify yourself. I think we have a microphone. Its going to come over, and lets start in the front row right there. Mr. Speaker, kevin winston, retired navy captain. We met in the first golf war when you came over to visit us. Yes. My question is about the paris climate agreement and could you comment on that . Sure. You mentioned mayor bloomberg, mayor of d. C. , a lot of mayors are saying were going to adhere to it regardless of what the white house does. How do you think that is going to play out . Well, look, i think being mayor nowadays is a symbolic behavior of the left. So you have to be for a sanctuary city. How can just as a side note, how can rahm emanuel, the mayor of chicago with 4,000 people shot last year, be, want to be a sanctuary city so they dont turn criminal aliens over to the federal government to deport . How can emanuel believe putting a criminal alien back on the street is a good idea in a city that had 4,000 people shot . The same thing, they make good postures, right . Were going to enforce the paris accord. What does that mean . San franciscos going to buy only electric cars, and then are they only going to buy electricity from solar power and wind power . Because if they just buy electric cars but the electricity comes from coal, they didnt do a whole lot to help carbon. Its Public Relations nonsense. I urge everybody to to whos concerned about this to actually read trumps speech. It is a brilliant economic speech. I was doing an event yesterday with a liberal democrat, and he said what trump has done has created a zone where china can now take the lead on the environment. And i said to him, thats great. China promised to start doing something in 2031. This means were going to move the chinese up by 14 years. I think thats fabulous. Do you think theyll start next week . [laughter] i want to see the chinese, you know, i want to see the chinese take the lead. The truth is the country on the planet. Has done the largest reduction of carbon of any country in the world by percentage is the United States. And were presently going to have the same level of carbon loading that we had in the 1970s. In the 1970s there was no chinese industry, they cant possibly get to that, okay . So im but if you read, and this is the whole problem of the modern left which is, essentially, an emotional, symbolic system that uses, you know, ranting as a substitute for thought. If you look at the speech, its a very detailed, very specific speech about economics. And and it says, basically, for example, the indians have said if you give us a couple trillion dollars, well be glad to do something about the environment. Now, why would we give india money . Explain to me the theoretical model by which im going to tax somebody in atlanta, georgia, to ship it to new delhi . Its not that imantiindian, im just proamerican. [applause] over there. Right, you. Yes. Hi. Alan [inaudible] wharton d. C. Innovationing summit. You mentioned health care. Its a 3 trillion industry. The socalled Affordable Care act is costing people 10, 15, 20,000 per person and business and other families per year which i would suggest highly unaffordable. What is the path to Better Health care and more moderate costs than what were paying now . Well, im going to say two things that are probably heretical. This comes from a lot of experience in dealing with Health Issues including reforming medicare in 1996 which doing that in a president ial year was probably the most elegant thing we did while i was speaker. I think health is the most complex thing in american society. I am fairly knowledgeable about health, and im fairly knowledgeable about national security. I would say health is ten times more complicated than national security. It is always a mistake to write big bills. We dont know enough to write big bills. Any big bill has unintended consequences. Its always a mistake to write it in secret. I think the fact is sooner or later you have to publish the bill. When you publish the bill, people are going to study it. The earlier they study it, the earlier theyre going to tell you what doesnt work, and then youve got to make a series of choices. I also think we are trapped into a model, and this is a good example from trumpism has not yet penetrated, okay . They are trying to write a bill which meets Senate Reconciliation rules and Congressional Budget Office scoring which both are stupid. They make no sense as a practical matter, the idea that you would redesign the entire Health System of the United States so that the Senate Parliamentarian approves it is utterly irrational, okay . The Congressional Budget Office is a disaster. Go look how often its wrong. New york times in 93 wrote this great editorial because the cbo had come in with a really bad score on hillarycare. And the times said the idea that you can project a 20 or 30year pattern for that large a section of society is absurd. Well, it is. So in a truly trumpian world, you would abolish the cbo you would change the Senate Reconciliation rules, and you would say as a practical, common sense matter where do we want to get . Be we want to get to maximum personal choice, we want to get to everybody having access to care and most people having access to insurance. The two are different. You have 8,000 federal Community Health centers. Theyre never figured into a health bill. But why respect they you know, if were paying for 8,000 Community Health center, why arent they an integral component of what were doing . Instead, we allow the left to define success as 100 insurance which nobody gets. And then we contort ourselves to try to to get to it. If you look at what maine has done, for example, you can do two things; create a high risk pool and guarantee everybody coverage no matter what the precondition. And there are ways to do that that are not complicated. They cost some money but, frankly, given the total waste in obamacare, its not that hard to do. And so thats partly. Second thing is what i would do to really reform medicaid is really simple, and this is what maine did recently which mary may hugh is the commissioner who did it. Now going to run for governor, and shes really, really a great reformer. Maine passed a rule that if youre an ablebodied adult with no children, you have to work in order to get medicaid. The 12,000 males who were on medicaid who fit that category, 11,000 went and got jobs. And are no longer on medicaid. So you, you know, this is a radical idea for liberals. You actually reduce the number of people on medicaid by reducing the number of people who need to be on medicaid so that they and the average person had 116 increase in their income. So they earned more money, had a better future, had a real job and saved the taxpayers of maine a substantial amount of money. If you applied that to new york and california, youd be startled how much money you would save and how many people youll move back into pursuing happiness and working rather than becoming dependent on the government. Let me ask one question over there and then well move it over to the other side, make it easier for our guy with the microphone. Thank you, speaker gingrich. I wanted to ask if you could talk about the concept of the intellectual idiot that was written about that you reference sometimes and how that fits into understanding trump in the context of the elite media but also the bureaucrats whom he deals with. And you talked about several service reform. Is it possible for him to get around the bureaucracy and get out the intellectual idiot types . Sure. Let me for those of you who have not yet read the book, i actually include the entire article in the book. The guy who wrote the black swan wrote an article entitled intellectual yet idiot, its about 800 words. And it was the most satisfying explanation of what i have not understood about modern government that i have read anywhere. And the essence of it he says, look, at least 40 of modern government is people who are really good at taking tests and writing essays. And because theyre really good at taking tests and writing essays, they get into elite universities where they study under professors who are really good at taking tests and writing essays. [laughter] and then because they do really well taking tests and writing essays, they graduate and get a job as a Supreme Court clerk or a New York Times reporter or whatever. And the problem is they dont know anything. So they can write a brilliant essay on how to change a flat tire, but if you have un, they have to call aaa because they have no idea how to change a tire. In the sense, this is the ultimate doily vegas of the great study of leadership decisions in vietnam. Early in the book Lyndon Johnson comes back from his first Cabinet Meeting under john f. Kennedy, and he goes to see sam rayburn. And he says to rayburn, the quality of the cabinet i mean, george bundy, the the provost at harvard, mcnamara, and he goes down this list of brilliant people, dean rusk. And at the end of it, he says, you know, lyndon, id be a lot more comfortable if there was one texas sheriff on the cabinet. And what he meant was a texas sheriff knew that his brand new deputy at four in the morning was probably asleep. And that he needed to be checked on because he wasnt doing his job. And that in the real world people behave in real ways. And what you had in the kennedy cabinet was this Theoretical Group who had a series of theoretical world views which turned out not to work very well. So they assumed, for example, a rationality on the part of the north vietnamese. They talked about orchestrating and going up and down the escalation ladder. In fact, the north vietnamese were quite clear they were going to win or die. Now, we could have beaten them, but it would have been horrendous. Or we could accept defeat which we ultimately did. But they werent confused. Theyd been fighting for years. And nobody and this is exactly where we are today. You have all of these people, you know, and this was and i was part of this, candidly. I thought there was an opportunity that we could profoundly rethink the middle east. And i used to tell people i think we could guarantee democracy in iraq, and we wouldnt stay a day longer than weve been in korea. Now, my dad started korea in 53. Weve been in korea for 67 years. Theres currently no great get out of korea movement, okay . But you couldnt run in, shatter everything and run out. And think youre going to have a functioning governing depp accuracy. Democracy. Theres no underpinnings. You start at somalia, yemen, libya with, syria, iraq, afghanistan, just as starters. Better part of wisdom would be people who understand maybe being cautious is a good idea as opposed to we know how to do it. That would be an example. Over there in the middle. Right here. With the glasses. You. Yeah, you. [laughter] [inaudible conversations] hold on. Wait, wait, hes working his way to you. Dont how much do you think the medias responsible for the heftwing attacks against leftwing attacks against republicans . Oh, i dont think you first of all, individual attacks are a function of individual responsibility. And i dont think you want to get into some collective group guilt. If you have an individual whos insane, theyre insane. So the guy this week who went out with a rifle, in my judgment, is deranged. Now, i think you could almost use the same term to describe a comedienne who holds a bleeding head of the president. These are personal psychological problems that are manifested by people who have an ideological, cultural overview, but the ideological, cultural overview doesnt require you to be stupid. I do think that the underlying pattern, i mean, if you look at its really ironic. All the talk on the left about bullying, you look on College Campuses who does the bullying, its the left. You look at the news media, cnn was 93 negative according to a harvard study. Now, you cant be 93 negative unless its deliberate, you know . And nobody at cnn feelses any shame about it. In fact, theyll even with a straight face tell you theyre covering the nudes. Which, of course the news. Which, of course, is an absurdity. So i think theres a group think. I think its very dangerous, very difficult. Some of you have probably experienced this. You go into the right newsroom and say youre protrump, watch the reaction. You go to the right College Campus and say youre protrump, but this is why i worry about the justice department. According to reports, 97 of the donations at justice went to hillary. 99 of the donations at state went to hillary. Now i ask you, what do you think the cultural pattern is . In a room where by 973 theyre donating to hillary . And thats why i think this idea of a deep states real. I mean, these are fulltime, permanent bureaucrats, and the pentagon the term used to be for political appointees that they were the summer help. [laughter] theyll be gone presently, just relax. Over there. Right front row. Yeah, you. Yes. Hold on. Microphone is coming. Get the microphone over here. Theyre bringing it as fast as they they can, theyre just t of slow. Thanks. Peggy im the Congressional Correspondent hillary said that she would never deport an immigrant, illegal immigrant child nor his family. I didnt believe her, that was Just Campaign rhetoric. But how much should this Campaign Rhetoric be translated into real policy when they become president . Well, first of all, i actually think youre better off as a candidate to campaign on what you mean, which was reagans great strength and was our great strength in 94. You actually say what you mean and then you do it. So i think in that sense rhetoric its not rhetoric. Rhetoric ought to be about reality. Thats how you build faith in a system, you actually keep your word. And thats why we became we were the first reelected House Republican majority since 1928. And it was in part because we kept our word. And people thought, wow, those guys are real. Were also the only group whos balanced the federal budget in your lifetime, for four straight years. Actually, for four straight years johnson did it once, i think, by 100 million. Not that it was a gimmick. But i think that lets take these i was very happy this morning that the department of Homeland Security said that they are not going to deport any of the dreamers. And that, the people who are under daca are, in fact, going to stay in the u. S. Which i think is pertinent. On the other hand, the courts had ruled that obamas effort to extend that to their families was illegal. And so i think, you know, so secretary kelly said, look, in order im going to enforce the court order. If Congress Wants to change it, they can. But the court has ruled that the president did not have the authority to extend it from about 600,000 dreamers to about six Million People. And so i think, i thought that was a very almost solomonlike decision. I happen to think the dreamers should not be deported. I think you came here at 3 years of age, you dont speak spanish, its a little bit goofy to say good luck in guatemala are. At the same time, that does mean you are potentially breaking up families. We just need to understand thats one of the sad parts of how you go through historic change. [inaudible] well, which kind . I mean, look, all campaigns communicate symbolically. I actually am a reaganiten in i think you should communicate what you intend to do and you should actually do it. Thats not the norm in american politics. Obama promised us you could keep your doctor and insurance policy, he knew it was a lie when he said it. Trump exaggerates routinely, its a part of his salesmanship, you know . You ought to come to my golf course, its the greatest, its unbelievable, you cant imagine how great the hotel is, its the greatest [laughter] look, he became a billionaire by selling, you know . You dont sell your hotel by going its actually kind of mediocre, the staffs not very good [laughter] personally, if you can a avoid it, id go somewhere else. [laughter] but that wrings with it the brings with it the baggage that he at times overpromises and at times exaggerates. Its also true, and this is one of the things i wrote about in understanding trump that i think is helpful as a pattern. Trump always wants to negotiate down, not up. So hell always set the initial term, were going to build a wall, and mexicos going to pay for it. Okay . And then the congress, you know, it was great. They cut this deal with the democrats, the continuing resolution, and they cant build a concrete wall which the democrats thought they were being very clever. And the following day after the democrats claimed how clever they were, they released a picture of the steel wall. [laughter] and they pointed out, you know, listen, you negotiate with trump, i youve got to read fine print. Because this guy has done more contracts than all of congress combined, and he knows how to negotiate. Lets stay in the front. Over this. Over there. Good morning, mr. Speaker. Good morning. My name is kwame, im a software engineer, i work at the federal agencies. My question is more along the line of whistleblowers. Sometimes when youre working in the agency, youre like light years away from the white house. Help me understand from your perspective a framework upon which Software Engineers like myself would work with this Administration Given the animosity towards leakers, the cybersecurity issues thats out here floating around publicly . I represent an organization thats called federal Software Engineers and data scientists, were about 350. And so im really curious, i wasnt going to even ask a question, but i just could not help sure. Listen, its a great question at two levels. First of all, i would hope your organization might come forward and offer specific advice on how we should be dealing with cybersecurity issues, because this goes back to taleb, you actually know something about the topic. Thatll be better than most of the guys at think tanks. You actually know the topic. So if your group came up and said here are six or eight things you ought to do, thatd be very endful and helpful and, i think, a step in the right direction. Second, i would hope that you would try to implement the laws of the United States as they relate to your job and would focus on that and not worry about most of the noise. And then third, and i dont know if this affects you, but it affects a lot of federal employees, we have to rethink the Current Civil Service rules which operate in such a way that if youre totally incompetent, you still keep your job. That just as you know, i mean, the people who love their job and want to the to come in early and want to work hard and are really excited really get drawn down. I talked to somebody who runs a small agency whos actually probably a liberal democrat, but she said in her small agency she has one person who for two years has come in, put his head on the desk and slept for the entire day. Shes actually taken pictures of him sleeping. And she has one person whos never come in in two years, and she cannot get the h. R. Department to fire the two people. Now, thats just crazy. And that lowers the morale of everybody else in the department. So thats a different zone, i think. And my advice is, you know, obey the law, do your best to help serve america. I mean, it is a great privilege to be able to serve the United States of america. And i say this im a guy who picks on the bureaucracy, etc. , but i also understand that if you dont have people who care about the country and who work their hearts out, it aint gonna work. And so im glad youre here today. And if you do come up with six or eight serious, common sense steps, if youll get them to me, i will personally put them in the white house. Okay . [inaudible conversations] anybody over there . Yes. Morning. Dave martin, biomedical engineer. In your opinion, what are one or more of the ways that the average american person like myself could spend their time, energy and resources which are limit today affect the change that were talking about and to help the administration . Trump administration. Yeah. Well, look, i think, first of all, as a private citizen, as an individual speaking up with your friends, calling in to talk radio, writing letters to the editor. People actually read the letters to the editor more than the editorials. It drives the editorial writers crazy. Do a blog, tweet. I mean, there are a lot of things people do facebook. There are a lot of things people can do to reach out. We live in an era when you can become your own Communication System, and you can find other people who agree with you, and you can create may not. And a community. I also think this is an era where, frankly, if trumpism means anything, it is decentralization away from washington. So in a sense, what this gentleman was talking about. We want to find ways for everybody at every level to go out and be creative and be positive and do things and maybe so the ideas may flow back up to washington rather than flowing down from washington. Yes. Right this. Yes. Right there. And then well move across back to the other side by the time were done. Thanks. Peter [inaudible] what are your thoughts on the election next week in georgia six and the republican prospects for holding the house in 2018 . I think that the, its probably even money who wins in georgia. Ossoffs not a very good candidate, but hes got over 23 million which for a single house race is just kind of astonishing. Id liked to have had 10 personally. [laughter] and thats all thats keeping him up now. I think hes actually decaying, and only the weight of money is keeping him in the game. The early voting, the republican vote is up 16 . The democrat votes down 23. And the guess is, this is purely a guess, but on the democratic side the College Students have gone home and that they have a real problem. Finding them and getting them to vote. But im told by people in georgia that they, theyre now seeing a significant shift towards handel and away from ossoff. Look, if she loses, well be battered and irritated and a little frightened. If he loses after 23 million, thisll be the third loss in a row after kansas and montana. The left will go crazy. I mean, if literally. They have so much more at stake in georgia than we do that its the unbelievable. But i would say as of right now she has its at worse an even money chance that shell win. Thats the worse you can say right now. Anybody that tells you they know for sure is, im sure, very foolish. Next year is pretty simple. Two to things. Do the democrats keep getting crazier . If you get identified as a party of bleeding heads, assassinations in new york public theater, a National Chairman who has to use curse words because he cant figure out how to say anything intelligent including a u. S. Senator who yous curse words, i mean, at some point that party has a relatively small base because they just sound nuts. Thats what happened under thatcher. And thatcher is much more like trump than reagan. Because reagan never threatened the left in the United States. He defeated communism in moscow, but he didnt try to defeat it at stanford. The difference is that like thatcher, trump is a mortal threat to the left. And so the left under thatcher went crazy, and by her third election in 87, the news media routinely referred to them as the loony left. So the first question next year is do the democrats keep drifting into this insanity representing a world with view that is 20 or 25 of the country. The second question is do the republicans get their act together and actually get not just get good things done, but communicate them. They have done so much on Veterans Administration reform, and it has such a weak Communication System that nobody realizes this is the best proveteran the house, senate and president are the best proveterans team weve had in modern times. Theyre doing real things. It is really working x they cant communicate any of it. Now, theyve got to both learn how to do things that matter and break past all the elite media and make sure that every american hears them despite all of the hostility. And if they solve that and if the left keeps going crazy, we could actually have an election next year where we gain ground, not lose ground. Lets go around, all the way theres somebody all the way in the back. So this is somebody all the way in the back. Right there. Go ahead. Thanks, john. And, mr. Speaker, you are a true intellectual giant and widely respected from the point of view that you have, but just to play dells advocate devils advocate, isnt it possible that trump becomes like mccarthy who became known as demagogue and imploded . It took a few years but it got there. And to give it the framework, the Mueller Investigation you dont think is really going to find anything in terms of russian money that supported trump against his bankruptcies when no u. S. Banks would or paying triple the funding, the value for his properties and flynn and manafort . You dont think theyll be actually indicted . And the senate that just voted 982 for russian sanctions because of what happened in the election . So i know its something that can be smiled at, but theres a lot of seriousness and a lot of evidence, or do you just disagree that theres any evidence whatsoever and that this is going to go nowhere . The other thing i wanted to say was thank you for the advertisement for the rahm event thats going to be here on tuesday, hell be able to answer your question. [laughter] good. There we go. Id love if somebody would ask him that, do you really need more criminals on the streets of chicago . [laughter] let me take your question at two levels, okay . I think its very illustrative, and im going to go way out on a limb. Theres a Remarkable Book by diana west called american betrayal which i recommend to everybody which basically says there really were communist spies. That mccarthyism in a sense is one of the great victories of the left, because the left decided that they had to smear mccarthy x. Mccarthy was a wild man and at times a demagogue. But the underlying truth was there were at least 500 soviet spies in the United States. Therethere are people on the let today who will tell you that, in fact, alger hiss was not a communist spy. Now, we know because after the soviet empire fell for a brief period we had access to their records, many of which were at hoover. And we know that at yalta about 2 00 in the morning, alger hiss met with stalin and was given the highest civilian award in the soviet union for having been such a brilliant agent of influence. I mean, this is not theoretical. Yet there are professors around this country who will passionately teach that what Richard Nixon did in going after hiss was terrible, and it was part of mccarthyism. We also there were a lot of people in hollywood who were communist. The reason reagan becomes so anticommunist is hes the president of the Screen Actors Guild and goes out and has a drink with a guy who says to him i am a real stalinist, and if you win, i am putting you in jail. And reagan thinks, this guys sincere. And he becomes a very hardline anticommunist in 1947. And, of course, the empire disappears about 44 years later. So, one, the very framing of your question, i thought, was interesting. Two, i think we should look at russian influence. Why did the bank pay bill clinton 500,000 . Why did the bank hire John Podestas brother to be a lobbyist . Why did the people who wants uranium decision give millions and millions of dollars to the Clinton Foundation through a Canadian Foundation which does not release who donates to it . So im very happy to lets have a broad, and this is part of what drives me crazy and is a sign of republican just incompetence. I think we should look at russian influence efforts and russian propaganda efforts. But then lets start with the clintons. I mean, why is it that were really worried about Paul Manafort, but were not really worried about these other people . Are we worried about manafort because he doesnt report it . What is the difference between John Podestas brother and Paul Manafort . Whats the difference were worried about money. Why arent we worried about a half billion dollars to bill clinton . Which was paid, i think, at about the same point that hillary was making a decision about uranium. Why does a that that why doet matter . Its impossible for russia to be proclinton. And, therefore and this was the question actually asked, to his credit, by a republican congressman the other day to the former head of the cia who had been talking about worrying about the president talking with the russian ambassador. He said, well, how about if a president said to the president of russia as soon as the elections over, ill be able to do a lot of stuff i cant do now . Which is what obama said to medvedev. So, i mean, im very happy to look at russian influence efforts in the United States. I just think they ought to be bipartisan, they ought to be open. We ought to know the total amount of money thats poured into the clintons, total amount of money poured into the podestas. I think thatd be terrific. Frankly, i would expand it. Id like to know how many countries like saudi arabia give money to universities to hire professors who end up being propagandists for the countries that are giving them money . I think this is a very important longterm question. I am very concerned about the ability of foreign governments to corrupt the american system, and i think it would be very helpful to have a deep, fundamental look at how much foreign money now penetrates our culture at every level. On that note, weve run out of time. I want to thank speaker gingrich again for appearing. Thank you. [applause] and before you go, i know youll be off to the holy see as your wife becomes ambassador to the vatican, and youre going to be still on american television. Youre going to have to wind up getting up very early, so for coffee to be perky on cnn in the morning or morning joe, id like to give you the official National Press club coffee mug. [applause] and id be honored and happy to sign personalized books anybody wants to get here today. Im delighted to be here. Thank you for interviewing me, that was great. Thank you. This concludes our program. Good morning. Ms. [applause] [inaudible conversations] washington journal continues. Host our first guest, former u. S. Senator from oklahoma he is the author of the book, smashing d. C. He is also a Senior Advisor of the convention of state project. Could you talk about what article five said and what it offers as far as power to the states . Guest colonel george ma colonel george mason when they were having a discussion on tower constitution. Doesnt say we head a grievous error. We have to make sure that because nowhere in history have powers have powerful government seeded back to the american people. They put this second componentin into article 5 which allows the states, twothirds of the states to call an Amendments Convention. Not a Constitutional Convention but an Amendments Convention where the states can offer amendments which are nothing but recommendations that go back to the states and then threequarters of the states, 38 states, would have to approve that. So, what it does is its the relief valve for the states when they see this imbalance, and what has happened is theres no long we are balance of power between the three batches in at the gordon. And in and no longer a balance of power ben the federal government and the states because 60 on average of the states when they raise money in state have a federal bureaucrat telling them howl they have to spend that. They have essentially lost all their power. So its matter rove balancing the relationship between the states and federal government. As far as mechanics. Heres what article 5 says the congress on shall call a convention for promoting amendmentses which shall by valid to all intents and purposes as part of the constitution and guess on from there. How many states are currently signed o. 12 have signed and have to have 34. Once you have 34, the congress doesnt have any choice. They have to call in an Amendments Convention, which is a convention of the states, which means each state gets one vote on anything that happens there. And then whatever comes out of that has to coincide with what the application is. Theres already Juris Prudence on that so if you apply forap three areas you cant go outside of those three areas to offer amendmentses. What are the three areas that the states would call for . Well in our application, which all aggregate theyre all similar limit the scope and jurisdiction of the federalt government, force financial responsibility, i. E. A balanced Budget Amendment with generally accepted accounting principles and limit the terms of both aexpound elected officials. If you think about it, why is the congress not considering economic and fiscal restraint right now . Where is the movement for awhers balanced Budget Amendment . 85 of persons want that but nobody is doing that in washington. Cent o its not going to happen unless we, the people, make it happen. Well continue with the conversation with our guest but if you want to talk about this proposal and article 5 and this effort to offer amendments by the states to to constitution, 2027488000, 20247888001 for republicans and independences, 2027 488002. Is this a bipartisan state. It is in state wes have both democrats and republicans and independents supporting it, and more progressive states theyre interested from a constituent extend of getting raid i try to remember the course case that allowed open spending through 529s. So, we have a lot of opposition because people like the power concentrated here in washington. But we also have a lot of support. We have 2. 8 million volunteers right now and well grow that to 10 million of the next year, and we have a volunteer in everylu legislative district in the country. As far as the number of states but quite a was to go to get to 34. How soon could you see that happen . Depend on leadership and what happens in washington. The more people see what is happening in washington the more they agree we need to make changes in terms of how it happens, how it works, the fact that not muching happening, didnt happen in the last four years, isnt happening now in this coming four years, where is the Work Together to solve the real problems of america . Er that whats im interested in. The president was elected with that kind of mandate. Sure. But the point is, this kind of superseded politics. This says what are the real problems we have as a nation, how do we fix them and how do we repair as our founders knew we would need to, otherwise they would have never put is thisn there where we reevaluate the balance of power in washington. Essentially congress has given all its power away. They dont have much pair anymore and the courts and the executive branch control things. A couple of gentleman at the center for budget and policy priorities that look at this, you have a convention of the stated they offer this argue. En saying the constitution provide nod guidance on to the grounds rules for a convention, leaves wide tone political, ask pressures and questions how the delegate will be chosen, how many delegates each stayed would have and whether a super majority vote would be required to approve amendments. The only requirement to approve amendments done by the states. The constitutionre says that and requires a super majority. The select of who comes is totally left up to the states. What they dont understand is before our constitution, everything happened through a convention. All our history is about convinc. Is matter of fact the bill of rights, when madison and johnri jay started propose that through an article 5 convention, Congress Said we dont want them to do that. Congress passed the bill of rights. So, theres a ton of naysayers. I understand that. We would expect that. But tell me, here is my position as a retired u. S. Senator and somebody who cares about the future of our country. Whats your ideas to fix it . It certainly isnt getting fixed here. How do we fix what how do we guarantee a good future for our kids . Heres the number that sticks with me. We have 144 trillion in unfunded liabilities and debt right now thats going to be coming due in the next 50 years. If you take the 85 million millenials, who are going to be the wageearners, how is it fair they lose 30,000 bucks a year they have to pay off when we werent responsible for it. So to not do anything is a moral injustice to the people that follow us and i know people dont want to Pay Attention to that but the fact is, we have an obligation to those that come after to us be responsible stewards and to start acting responsibly. Certainly havent the last 25 years. The book is called smashing the d monopoly. First call from ray, texas, democrats line, youre on go ahead. Guest good miracle, ray. Nk caller hi and thank you for cspan. Tom, i get you, what youre doing and i appreciate it very much. We need this in a terrible way. Where do i begin . You just theres no way whery a sitting president could even implement any of the things they want to do their platform. Too much stuff thats broken. Hires my suggestion. Is it possible, would it be possible, could congress muster the courage to create an independent commission onlobb lobbying, revamp lobbying from the top down and totally divorce the money that is paid to congressmen, senators, whoever,r because it is always a perpetual election, all theyre trying to run, very little gets done while theyre there. Its all about taking money and staying in power. Not the money itself. Its about staying in power. Host ray, thank you. Guest i think as a physician i would say thats treating the symptom instead of the disease. The disease is longterm ray money, get reelected and enhance my ability to have this position. Term limits is the answer to that. Selflimited my own terms but term lilts is the answer and thats what we are proposing, we limit the terms of the members of congress. A large portion of the senate and house have never had a job outside of politics. That doesnt make them bad people but certainly limits their exposure and thought patterns on how you solve problems. So, im with you. I think the lobbying and the money raising is all a symptom of lack of term limits. Everybody that was at the convention the Constitutional Convention was for term limits with the exception of the new york representative, who started our banking business, hamilton, and he persuaded them not to put it in and let the states decide. 26 states but in term limits and the Supreme Court turned it down, again, the way we do this is through a constitutional amendment that the states approve that Supreme Court cant have any control over, and thats why we the people have to solve this problem. Were the ones that ought to bee deciding because were being affected. Host from georgia, independent line, david. Caller this is nothing but the old states right argument that they keep bringing these conservatives keep trying to t bring up all the time. The reason they want to good back to states rights which give all the power to the states which is governed by republicans from the dark on up and its basically just white rice. Anyway, there was a thing that happened back in the turn of the center. The farmers were given the money from the state to dole out to all the other farmers for whatever reason. Well, they give it to the white farmers, the white farmers gave all the money to their friends, and other white familiarers. Family members, whatever and excluded the black farmers which went out of business. Thats why people try to fight that states right mentality when it comes to going back to the way we do things, because they have always hate the federal government for making things right and better for all people. Thank you. Sunny couldnt disagree more. To give you an example, on a highway built with federal money it costs 50 more to build the same exact highway than if you do it with state money because of all the bureaucrats and all the regulations required. This doesnt have anything to do with race. This has everything to do with freedom and thats freedom for everybody of every race in our country. Host from kansas, democrats linehunt. Good ahead. Caller okay. I have to say, mr. Coburn, i could not disagree with you more. This is nothing about false advertisement. This is a g. O. P. Agenda. You guys got the majority of the state legislatures throughout the country. This is backed by alec, and its nothing more than false advertisement. Sort of like youre right to work states. This is bad news. When they open this up who knows, and you said its not about race. Its everything to do with race. Come on. Ou this is what the country is about. Dont be fooled, america. This is another making America Great ploy. Host hunt, what is wrong with the proposal, then . Whats wrong with the Amendment Proposal . Hes gone. You can responsible. Guest im sorry they see it colored that way. Understand why they might. But in fact it has nothing to do with it. We started this movement while i was in the u. S. Senate, and it we didnt have the majority of the house. It has nothing to do with that to do with freedom, and actually this, problems infront of our country, you can ignore it but well pay for them eventually, and maybe not me because im older but my children are certainly are and my grandchildren are. So the question is, are you a good steward do you actually reach out and fix he problem . This isnt about limiting other peoples freedom. This is about expanding everybodys, and restoring the freedom that we were intended to have. Do we really need a big brothert from washington on everything that goes on in the states . Well, if you have been discriminated against you might feel that way. Understand that. But that isnt the way to establish freedom. This is a solution that is as big as the problem that is in front of us, as a nation. And the real question is, who decides . Is some elite person in d. C. Going to decide your future, your freedom, how to do thing or some unelected bureaucrat who has never ran for office or do you get to decide . Heres the other important point. As a u. S. Senator i represented almost four Million People. How many got to talk to me . They i can actually speak a legislator and all i have to do is drive 95 miles and i can milwaukee any voice heard lsen make my voice heard and so can anybody necessary oklahoma. That doesnt happen here. When you sent a leader back you get a letter back thanking you for the letter but no specific response to your question. Host the states that signed on to this, theyre governed by republicans and have republican legislatures largely . Sunny think thats true. Alaska, indiana, missouri,al tennessee, lad. Think thats true. Host will you make this pedestrian largely to red states in you talked about bipartisan nature of this guest i think the reason its going first in red states a is because theyre more desire to give control back to the states. Host as far as being consistent of the three things you want thank you do you make that happen with the states having to have the same principles. Guest lets take the fiscal responsibility that the federal got has to be fiscally responsible. Within a convention, every state gets one vote, if oklahoma wants to send ten and california sends 20 they can but the still get one vote. You have to pass a recommendation that says, heres a constitutional amendment we would forward to the states. That would be, lets have a balanced Budget Amendment that says over the next ten years you have to move towards a balanced Budget Amendment. Heres why that is important. Most of the time our members of congress and our senators wont make the hard choice because if they make the hard choice they might not get reelected and the. Conflict is maintaining power versus losing power. So, if they if we have balanced Budget Amendment that says you have to do this, they can go home and say, look, im sorry, didnt have any choice. Had to vote because we now have a constitutional amendment that says we have to live within our means instead of continuing to borrow off the backs of peoplele that arent even born now. Host this is from ourho independent line. Florida, bill go ahead youre on with our guest and. Caller good morning pedro. I agree with the earlier call, this is nothing more than undermining democracy in america, putting a limit on wages, decreasing wages, as you, have done in puerto rico, with the Blue Mountain hedge fund thats going on there that wrecking that economy. Host how do you make the connection between what you cited and this effort by senator coburn . Caller because thats what all the red states represent. They represent nonunion people, they represent wage controls of 7 an hour. 7. 50 an hour. They wont let people unionize. They are destroying democracy. Its the indifference to the a way of life in america that we used to have during the 50s and 60s. Host okay. Well let our guest respond. Guest again, its very informative to see the kind of response that were seeing, which is one of thundershower problems in our country, the division. Youre obviously bad if you live in a red state. Youre not thinking you cant care for people. We just heard an explanation that if youre from a red state, from two different individuals, that obviously you dont have the kind of values needed forr our country, and that just isnt true. Ru the fact is red states care for their people as well as blue states, and i dont know. Right to work . Right to work is actually w elevated wages in oklahoma. So, i understand thisut porlarization were seeing isac difficult but if we have convention of states and force the federal government, what wrong with us living win our means and is there a moral question to the gentleman who just called from florida . You dont think you ought to pay for your medicare . You dont think you ought to be paying for what is getting ready to come down the pike to benefit you or should you just charge it to your children . Thats the real moral question. We can take it off into a back alley and say thats not what were trying to do, but that is what were trying to do. T even though the constitution allows for it do you hear the argument this is an end runen around representational government. End this is exactly what our founders intended. They knew at some point in time the ineffectiveness and the cost of the Central Government collecting power to itself would have to be neutralized and this is just about restoring what was originally in our constitution in terms of the states having the ability to make decisions. For example, can we the 100 billion a yerbas in the military . Who is working on that . I can documented that i have documented it in a written book. Hoarse the waste. Who is working on that right now . Nobody. So the question is, do we have Representative Government or just continue to waste money. 400 million a year, according to gao is waste, fraud, abuse, and duplication. They just came out yesterday and said, inappropriate payments of 145 billion. 145 billion . Thats enough to run the state of oklahoma 20 years. Why would we continue to allow that . So, i understand what were hearing from callers about i don think it has any bearing in fac of what were trying do. Smashing the d cmon knopp my, using article 45 during article 5 and joining us to talk about the concepts there. Ed from michigan, republican line, youre next. Caller i love this idea. Government closest to the people governs best you. Cant govern a country the size of the United States, as diverse as the United States, from one spot. I would prefer to have people in california, illinois, massachusetts, not suffer under donald trump and a republicanre congress policies. Similar live i would not want to have texas or indiana or utah suffer are in their poll is so barack obama and nancy pelosi. So we need to decentralize power because we do that, we have more freedom. Thats why hitler and the nazi hated federalism. When you do that i always have the left talk about states rights and how its a boogieman. Prior to the civil war theres only one political entity that opposed state and it was the northern states. The several government and Southern States coddledslavery. People have more choices and with more choices you have more competition and more accountability. Love this plan. Guest i agree with him. Its really about who decides. And that is what freedom is about. This isnt about undermining civil rights. This isnt about taking away what is out there. Its about being responsible with what is. And what we have just heard was a good summation of why we ought to do it but the other reason is because look how much fear we have heard this morning. Look how much fear. Why is the fear . Do we expect the elites in washington to do what is best in the long term for the country, when in fact their real conflict is doing what its bess for their political rear . Give you an example from last year. Last year 484 billion deficit. Published by omb and cbo. Except the debt went up 1. 6 trillion. As an accounting major and a degree in accounting, you cant that doesnt work. The unfunded liabilities grew 6 trillion. So, we can ignore that. We can continue what that means is the average millenial will live at a 30 decreased standard of living than what were leaving right now and thats a moral imperative we fix that. Host that idea, if if can get a reaction. The president expected to release his budget today. According to the inflammation theres some spending new spending involved when it comess to things like Public Private partnerships and things like that. One thief bigger issues raised is when it comes to spending cuts, potential of 600 bin from medicaid and the Childrens Health insurance program. Is that the right approach . Guest well, if you look at what they found in pennsylvania . And ohio, they found over a Million People that were illegally signed up for medicaid. Who lied on their applications. They compared tell to the auto applications for their auto loans and then they compared them to what they told the state and in fact they werent eligible. For a republic to survive you have to have a virtuous and informed public. I would tell you that if you have a Million People in two states that signed up illegally for a government program, and that average cost is 7,000 a year, thats a lot of money. Thats 7 billion just in those two states. Well if you have the same amount of fraud elsewhere, whats going on . Same thing on Social Security disability. We know that 40 of the people on disability arent disabled. But nobody we did all people going to jail from the oversight we did on that but who is working on that now . So, i dont overreact. Our goal ought to be is if somebody needs help, we ought to help them but we all to also help them maintain to be personally responsible and not create dean den si. Arthur brookses and his books meat two great points. Learn dependency is tyranny because what happens is you lose your ability to lawyer and grow into what you can to flower and grow but earned success is happiness and its true. So if we create programs that help people that need and it dent allow the fraud and abuse, we know theres 120 billion ofi fraud in medicare and medicaid. Just think about that. That is enough to build every new bridge we need to build per year from now on, every year airport we need build. All the new highways we need to build. Just got rid of fraud in medicare and medicaid. Nobody wants to do the hard work of making people accountable on the programs. I havent looked at president t trumps budget. Will. I have no doubt some of it will be good, some wont be good. You cant be nobody operates a perfect budget and i read its already dead up here. Thats because were going to vote ourselves money from the public treasury. Thats how republics die and everybody has died. Every republics died. We are the longest standing republic and they all died on s the same thing. Fiscal impropriety. Democrats lynn. Katherine in ohio. Caller good morning. And you are a true politician because you speak out of bothe sides of your mouth. Sir, you were the elite in washington; if it was so bad then why didnt you try to do something at the time. You spent the money. You were the good steward who donated or decided where the money would go and then you spent it. And now you act like im the guilty one because now im at Social Security age, and because the money is not there, i have done something wrong. No, sir, you were the supposedu to be the good steward. You were there with the money. You are the one that is responsible, not us. Now its time to pay the piper. We worked our entire lives, sir. I started working when i was 16. I lied. Was the oldest of five and to have a winter coat i had to good to work. When i got 18 and got out of high school i got a job at the kroger company, and there i stayed until the day i retired. I worked, got married, i had children, i raised my family, i bought a home and did all the things that is required of me. But you, sir, you did not. Now you spent the money. My money, my tax dollar. And now youre crying because the money is not there for you to spend again. The money needs to be put back into these places where we paid it in. Now, you, sir, are the one holding the money bag. And now you want to tell me how bad i am because i want to havem somewhat of a decent life. Im not asking to live in luxury like you are, sir. But i like to pay my gas and electric bill and my mortgage in the same month. Me host thank you. Wed let our get respond. Guest she doesnt know my voting railroad. Didnt vote for one appropriation bill the entire time i was in the u. S. Senate because it thought i was immoral. Number two, is im the guy that did the oversight, trying to straighten things out. Im the guy that outlined the waste. Couldnt get people to vote for it. So i understand your opinion but i thick if you check my voting record you would find your statements are far no true. Host as far as getting to the 34, what is the convention of the states project, what are they doing. Guest were expanding our grassroots base wind chill should be at 10 Million People. At the end of the next year. Which gives us a Grassroots Army to actually go and lobby legislators about changing things. We will pick up probably eight to ten states next year, which will put us somewhere between 2n and 22 states, and then well just take that same resource and that same grassroots and work on the states that are left. Host convention of the states. Com, the web site if you want to learn more about the project that our guest is with. Also the author over the books smashing the d cmon knoppfully a former u. S. Snort from oklahoma, tom coburn, thank you. Guest its been a pleasure