Dr. Sheri fink, what is the timeline of your book . What are you talking about . Casco im talking about this fire days in 2005 when the levees failed in new orleans after Hurricane Katrina and water just round one of americas most beloved kitties. Looking specifically about what happened after those five days at the hospital. Memorial Medical Center was one of those scary longstanding Community Hospitals that have been built in 1926. It was the place people went for storms. The staff would go there even if they didnt have to work. They brought along their pets sometimes because of coors you need somewhere for the past. They brought Family Members and they sometimes even to a coup detat may not be safe at home. This is a place everyone thought was safe in the storm. Host so they would ride out hurricanes . Guest yes. What happened was that this has several vulnerabilities that ive since learned Many American hospitals do. One of them was that element of the electrical power system. So when the waters dirtied approach in the hospital, they knew they had to evacuate because city power was gone. They were relying on this backup generator. Data within hours, all powers could fail. The first real dilemma was when helicopters landing on the route to take people, there were 250 patient, 2000 people. Talk is, nurses, staff, Family Members. Purdue rescue first thing i got our stuff to pow members. Purdue rescue first thing i got our stuff to power . That was the first dilemma. It also started getting hot inside the hospital. Another vulnerability hospitals have come im sorry to say, is they are not required for their backup Power Systems to keep the air conditioning or the heating, depending where you are in the country, functioning. Even before all power was lost, it was august, it was new orleans. It was hotter than it is here in miami and is it getting hot in the hospital, making it difficult for patients and people working there. Host where is memorial in new orleans . Guest it is uptown in new orleans. It is two feet below sea level. New orleans is like a bull in the dips below sea level. Many of the hospitals there were in a similar situation. Host what is memorials reputation . Guest the reputation was excellent. This is a place where people were proud to work. The giants in new orleans had walked the halls. People were proud to work. It was a place where a nurse would work and have a child and the child would grow up and work in the same unit. Theyre a Multigenerational Families who had worked at this hospital here at a real family, a Real Community and very wellregarded. Wellregarded. It had been a baptist hospital, originally known as southern baptists. But the changes in medicine we saw in the 90s, it was bought by forprofit company. Host is memorial opened today . Guest it is under new ownership and back with a baptist name. Same building. I was just at the other day and theyve just reopen the neonatal icu in a place for people to go have their babies, which is many, many people were born at doctors hospital. They have made the improvements in their electrical system that unfortunately, hospitals and the for example, in my city where i live now, new york, do not have to make improvements until the year 2030 because we discovered with Hurricane Sandy that we at the same vulnerabilities in as many places in flood prone areas that do not have their Power Systems protect it. This hospital now does. They felt secure enough to bring their babies back. Eight years later, it took a very long time for this to occur. Host sheri fink, walk us through the five days. What is the date we are talking about . What happened on the first day . Guest basically the first everybody arrives. The next morning the storm hits. It was scary. Thats not what they remember. They remember the next day, the third day that the levees failed near the hospital that the water started coming up. Thats when things became very, very critical. You can imagine we rely as doctors and nurses rely on power to do just about everything, whether it is running an iv that is run by gravity. Now there are electrical pumps, which are not digital. That doesnt work when when the power fails. Think about ventilators. People who rely on machines to help them breathe. Those failed. The doc is had decided to get the neonatal outcome of the little babies, as well as the intensive care unit patients. They also designated a group of patients to go last. Some of the sickest patients with do not resuscitate orders. We have since learned that this may not be the best way to do triage, trying to figure out how you get the resources that people need to people in a crisis. Sometimes you need to allocate those resources or ration them. You do not resuscitate order does not mean that somebody can benefit or would want to be saved at the expense of others, which is what doctors assumed. Bad to make this on the fly. So these patients it was decided they would go last. And you imagine all power fails. They moved patients out of their brooms come into staging areas, think and helicopters would be coming. At some point, everybody was up on the rooftops. Many people did not evacuate the cities. People waving anything they could to get helicopters to come rescue them. The pilot had to decide, do i rescue someone off a rooftop that may not even have water . Or do i go to this hospital where presumably they have a helicopter drop of medicine that they needed. Sometimes the helicopters came very slowly. The patients grew sicker and sicker. Some of the staff grew very afraid. Host sheri fink, 2000 the hospital when hurricane hit. How many people were evacuated . Guest so, what happened was purchased incredible work, creative thinking, they were bitterly doctors and Staff Members who win out a new faribault semitrailers in the neighborhood. They went and hotwired one of them, brought it back to the hospital and started getting sent ablebodied people out because dry ground was only about eight blocks away. That would be a way. They got people out that way. Originally, they started euthanizing pets because they felt, no, we cant set them on a helicopter. We are trying to take patients and Family Members out. It turned out through creative thinking they were able to extend resources to the hospital. I always say one of the big lessons is that you, me, any of us could be in a disaster for official hop doesnt come quickly enough. Its really that creative thinking, the preparedness of you and me to care for ourselves, Family Members, community is really crucial. You saw in the philippines, too. The help comes a little too late. There is a Family Member of a patient who is outside of new orleans, who fought her way past the check point, found some guys in a small boat and got an directed them to the hospital. Saved not only her and her husbands mother, but also many, many people at the hospital. Overall, there was an incredible effort to coast guard skin. No air Traffic Control risk in their lives to an anonymous helipad that hasnt been used in years. What was found after were 45 bodies. About 40 patients had died during or after the disaster. Thats when this question began, why did so many more patients die at this hospital than many hospitals in a similar situation . Very soon after, some of the staff at this hospital came and spoke with the media, spoke also with investigators for the state and said, we think something happened here that wasnt right. Just imagine you are in mrs. Them. You feel patients are starting to die. You think you may not save everyone. You categorize a whole group of people, but you think they may not survive at all. The question began circulating in the hospital. Shouldnt we be thinking about putting the patients out of their misery . Host who started the circulation question . If youd like to participate in our conversation with sheri fink, the author of five days at memorial, also a poet or winner and medical doctor. Were talking about Hurricane Katrina, medical ethics. 202 5853880 the Central Eastern time zone. By the high 3881 and a knot in pacific and further west to time zones. You can also send comments or questions via twitter. booktv is our twitter handle. So back to my question. Guest yes, several people started talking about this when i investigated and looked into how this all played out. It was interesting because even at the time there was great tension over this, there were staff who thought like this was the right thing to do. Some of them bravely spoke to me. I say briefly because ultimately there were arrests involved. There were people who thought they should give these patients in madison and help them to their death essentially. One of the authors that he was so fright and he literally called his wife and that i dont entail going to see you again. He had to get out of the hospital and what would happen to the patient. Host who is he . Guest he passed away recently, that he is a Critical Care doctor at memorial. Host he was there for the five days . Guest he certainly was. Postcode can you say doctors at memorial were euthanizing patients . Guest it kind of takes you back into the definition of euthanasia. I typically say to doctors told me that should be called according to the attorney general of louisiana, murder, seconddegree murder is what he called it. He arrested several Health Professionals because, a yearlong investigation took place. According to medical ethics, the laws of the land, the will of the Family Members who were present and some cases, that we dont do this. There is a tradition in madison that goes back to hippocrates, that doctors should not be in a role. That is something medical codes in the United States is not about. There are few places in the world now where euthanasia is allowed, but only with a can and then under certain very strict rules for the end of life, if wishes that to be hastened. Host sheri fink, who is dr. Anna poe . Guest dr. Anna poe is a head and neck surgeon. She was one of the doctors who is now said to give some benefits to patients. The investigation shows that 20 patients receive a combination of morphine and a powerful sedative, one of the other oath and died in a very short time. Im not fit day, but thursday, september 1st. Many physicians and nurses were involved in this. She was one of them. There were two nurses who are off the arrested. The three of them arrested and accused by the attorney general of seconddegree murder in the deaths of several patients. They were arrested because the prosecutors had the most evidence. There were witnesses who had seen them, who had heard them, had spoken with them about giving medicines. Unlike the doctors who spoke with me openly about what they did, dr. Poe, while she spoke with me, will not address the issues around those deaths. Not surprisingly, if you are arrested and accused of murder, settled or dismissed now. I think, on the advice of her attorney, she has not really address the issues that the court, except to say she was innocent and not guilty of murder. Host still practicing medicine . Guest dr. Poe is still practicing medicine at Louisiana State university. In fact, she was promoted after these events because, i should say that there was coming in now, while the evidence was there that these deaths were hastened, certainly the drugs were given. What the motivation was was that the case hinged on. If you intentionally cause death, you can see that might fit into murder according to the attorney general. However, if the medicines were given for comfort, that is something we do allow in the United States, certainly to treat patients for comfort truth the endoflife. But you know, the experts who were called in to look at these cases were pretty convinced. There was one that just a pattern of so many deaths in such a short time led them to believe that this was more than just an effort to provide comfort. But these Health Professionals and louisiana, because of the larger context, that the decisions were made in and fail to respond quickly enough on a governmental level, corp. Model. So given that context, and if so, how we arrest three professionals give incoming and no, all that sort of failed around them. Host sheri fink, when did news reports start coming out about what may have occurred at memorial . Guest very early on there were doctors and nurses who disagreed, who had been involved in discussions over euthanasia, putting people out of their misery, whatever wording you want to use. They felt this was wrong, the patients were suffering to a degree where this is called for, even for comfort medicines. Doctors said her job is not to bring about death. He really disagree. Some of them spoke with the media. Early on their intimations of what might occur. Of course, no real evidence. A lot of people tend to dismiss the story as a sensationalist that cannot believe what happened. I had worked in disaster conflicts as an aid worker. My first spoke at the hospital under siege for three years during the bosnian genocide. Never a set of the of fiction had i heard of a situation getting so desperate that doctors and nurses really thought that some of them thought this might be to best option. It was urgent for our country to know the true story and that was the best way to really honor the sacrifices of the people who work so hard in the situation and the lives of the people who had passed away, was for us to face this head on, do not walk away from it, to look at these events. Whatever the motivation, whatever the feeling for the people who took this fact, obviously thinking it was the best name. We need to learn from that spirit we need to go forward. We dont want to see this type of thing happen again. Theres all sorts of important lessons for preparedness in our country, invest in infrastructure, areas that have vulnerabilities in certain disasters or organizations better prepared leadership and communication and individuals have been around plants, thinking through the first half is almost an hour by hour for recreation of what happened. Unlike these four. Yours and nurses who are stuck in a situation, we have the luxury of thinking about what we would want to do. Host you have a picture in here of memorial underwater. Want to show that to our viewers. 202 5853990. 5853891 in case youre interested in participating in our conversation. Please go ahead and show us what we are looking at. Guest this is taken on the fifth day. One of the tragedies here is finally the helicopters arrived to assist day. Theres a real concentrated effort. Five federal officials, just as the injections were taking place. One helicopter heading towards the hospital. You can actually see a helicopter on the top there. This is the garage ramp. Creative thinking is that saved lives here. They saved so many lives. They pushed the patient drove them up or down brand of the circling parking garage and then carried them out these rickety steps to the top of the helicopter. When the power fails, youve got no elevators. Host you see the water in the streets below. How isolated we the people of memorial on day four . Guest thera isolated. This hospital is two city blocks long, like many of our hospitals. There just was in a pattern regular meetings. People really felt like communication was good in the hospital. So there were people who have radios are in touch with rescuers and coast guard plucked a radio fare. Or for that is to get from the top of that helipad and to send staging area and the hospital, it was very difficult. The rumors just flew. As i was writing five days at memorial, i got the audio from the callin radio show that was happening. There is a Radio Station that kept going. People were calling in and supporting what was happening. People with that or he powered radios were listening. There were rumors of sharks and hotel swimming pools. They were saying that zombies were taken over new orleans. I mean, really. People at the hospital heard gunshots. The phones were cut out. They didnt have satellite phones working. You asked, where they cut off . They felt very cut off. Host what was the temperature in the hospital . Guest people have estimated that as 100 degrees. The stations were not keeping record at that time. I would say it was in the name is at least in the area around the hospital. Inside, it became human. If youve ever been in a hospital, they are sealed shut. When the power goes down, which it sometimes does, if you have no air conditioning, the walls start to sweat. It becomes slippery on the floor. It becomes so difficult to work. Host did they have water . Guest they did have water. They did not have running water. Some people feared that it would run out. Host sheri fink come youre a doctor, a medical doctor as well. Ha host sheri fink come youre a doctor, a medical doctor as well. Have you thought about putting yourself in the place for those five days at memorial . Guest ive worked in conflict and disaster zones as a worker with the nongovernmental organizations. That is what made me interested in looking at this tori. I certainly was not there when this happened and that is why it took me six years to gather documentation, to really try to piece together, moment by moment, what happened. I have a lot of empathy working for people under situations of grace rest. I felt that this lack of sleep for days can do to you when you hear gunshots going off in alms exploding. Ive been in that type of a situation. And so, that gave me some sympathy for the condition. Host were these patients euthanized in your opinion . Guest i think it is completely clear that its going to be argued 20 patients were found with drugs and their bodies. It is well documented when they died, where they died. They would take these medicines in a short period on thursday, september 1st. As to the attention knowledge of each individual person who did this act, that is sort of up to each person to say. So, two doctors said we intentionally hasten the death of her patients. Others have said i was trying to give comfort. I think when you read the book, i wanted to show the different days. I didnt want to insert myself in a manner. You know, the whole question of the legal aspect of it, the whole second half of the book is how did we adjudicate these potentially criminal acts in the context of the disaster. Host sheri fink is our guest, author of five days at memorial. Also a medical error. Isabella in orange springs, florida. Good morning. Thanks for holding. You on booktv from miami. Caller hi, how are you . Guest good, how are you. Host isabela, turn down the volume on your tv. Make the comment through the phone. We are listening. Caller okay. Host we are going to have to move on, isabella. I am sorry. We are going to go to cc and portland, oregon. We are listening. Go ahead and make your comment for sheri fink. Caller i was reading something about this in the New York Times spread out. I dont know if you are the author of that piece in the New York Times. This seemed like there were a lot of good things going on from what i gathered in the New York Times article, but there is this one woman and a director of the hospital does maybe making this decision. I guess another part of it was there is really no smoking guns in the sense i guess another part of it was there is really no smoking guns in the sense that you see those two doctors came out and said we plan on doing this. They argued no one ever said lets kill these people and therefore, people were able to use that as defense of not being clear, but many people were going to do, but no one actually said those words out loud to all the individual doctors. I was wondering if you can comment on that. And if youre involved with the New York Times writeup or the extent to which you use that in the degree to which the hospice that kind of was told that. Just as a commentary, i feel more sympathy for the patients. I know you are trying to kind of stress the fact that these doctors were under immense pressure. You know what, im sorry, i have more sympathy for the patients. They go to the doctor. They are in the hospital for their care. Regardless of the stress and how it is they were thinking things were growing, their job is to save lives. It just shows you how it was during katrina, that so many people kind of shirt or responsibilities, both police and hospital people, that they ended up killing people as opposed to trying to care some of the citizen and resident of new orleans. Guest well, the book raises the question of, is at a time when we allow our moral values to drive a little bit . Or is it a time when they need to hold even more closely to our deepest moral values. That is one of the questions the book raises. I think many people were very disturbed because i should say, it wasnt just patients who are teetering at the end of life who receive these drugs. In fact, one case in particular, and that everett was i think a 61yearold gentleman. He was partially paralyzed, but he was conscious. He had expressed a desire to be rescued. He had sent himself breakfast that morning and told the nurse says, are we ready to rock n roll . He said to one specific nurse, dont let them leave me behind. She was devastated because he was one of the patients, who received these drugs. He was 380 pounds and a hospital without elevators functioning. According to people who participated in the discussion about him, they felt they were elt they weree, that they felt so out of hope, that they felt they couldnt carry him down the staircase. I feel we really need to think about this because obesity is an issue in our country. It just came out that bellevue last year, the last person rescued when the water came up on the east river in new york city, all of your hospital, 20 some stories high with a 500pound man. They didnt give up hope in that kept carrying feel up to the back of generators after the fuel pumps failed in the basement, on the 13th floor so they could get one allocator running and get him out safely. A lot of people feel the way that you do and it is one of the reasons why we really need to look at these issues. Asked to the group think, if you read five days at memorial, you will see i sort of traced back. I interviewed everybody had occurred. Where did you hear about this idea . Where did this person here from that person . You can see how that initial idea was introduced text at first euthanizing pats and perhaps an offhand comment, were putting the patients that were making the pets comfortable, why dont we do more for the patient . More for the patients. The patients were getting comfort medicines all on. They were giving them doses of what they needed for pain and four for distress as well. So the question of how does that idea percolate through the medical staff, embraced by some, rejected by others, its all in the book, and yes, i did write the New York Times article that you mentioned and early version of this story, which i felt even in 13,000 words could not tell the whole story and that is why i took another three years and wrote five days at memorial life and death in a stormravaged hospital. What did you when your poll surprise for . Remapped for the magazine that this caller was referring to that was published in 2009. We have chuck from arnold, the next call is trapped in arnold, maryland. Hello, you are on with our special guest. Caller hello, doctor. I organize a group under an fbi volunteer program where we looked at nationwide longterm disasters and we have a group of individuals, including those from the military who have formed a group to look at Health Care Infrastructure nationwide. And im wondering if you would be so interested in participating into some of the discussions that these people are holding that would look at Critical Infrastructure and how to do it and what we might do to improve it. And i wasnt sure if there was an interest that you might have were a way to contact you to better participate. Guest thank you. Anyone who wants to get into touch with me, go to my website, which is my website, and it is sheri fink. Net. And i also have a twitter account as well. Sheri fink books is also my website. And i think that it is so nice to hear that. And since the book has been published, of some really fantastic initiatives of people realizing that we have seen so many disasters and we have so many vulnerabilities. Different vulnerabilities in every part of the country and it is such a wonderful thing when various organizations and individuals get involved in looking at these preparedness issues. And its Good Practice in certain parts of the country that could be implemented in other parts of the country. I am happy to hear about that. Host who started the investigation into memorial . Guest it was started by the medicaid Fraud Control unit and it turns out that these units are, i believe, in every state. Im going to get this wrong but its a combination of federal monies as far as state resources. Yes. State resources in the state capital and the attorney generals office, i should say. And they typically investigate medicaid fraud and this could be anything from abuse of the elderly in a nursing home to financial shenanigans going on and this is most of them. And so the second half of five days at memorial life and death in a stormravaged hospital, you meet this young and passionate investigator and a veteran prosecuting team that works together to become very impassioned about what happened at this hospital. And when these allegations came out, there was a code of silence and people shut down and did not want to talk about it. They were afraid knowing that the investigation was going on. So these two Law Enforcement officials face a tough battle trying to piece together what happened. The bodies had sat in an unrefrigerated condition for a long time. So even to do toxicology tests on them, they could detect the amount of drugs in the presence of certain drugs. But the amounts it was very difficult to detect. And so it is really the whole second half of the book is have a piece together what happened in these difficult conditions. After one year of investigating is one the arrest took place. Host our next call comes from walter in new haven connecticut. Welcome, youre on booktv on cspan2. Caller yes, i would like to comment on the military situation. I had a friend who was in the military quarters and in battle, there is a certain point but i suppose it is taken out of their hands and they do what they can. But i wonder if with medical training and these are people who have limited training and battlefield triage. And so the determination is taken away from them. Some wondering if you could comment on what the dividing line is that is making the expectation of their fellow soldiers as opposed to civilians and what you can expect and what they can actually do. Who they can actually save as opposed to what people think that they can do. Guest thank you very much for that question. And i looked at the history and what we are talking here, which is triage. Its a french word originally referring to the sorting of coffee beans and it was first applied to the battlefield by Napoleon Bonaparte a and his surgeon. So his original conception of triage was exactly what you said. We have a battlefield situation with many people injured. And his concept was we save the most grievously injured without regard to the rink or distinction at a time of egalitarian systems as the french would refer to it. Some years later there was a concept added with some conceptions of triage which would imply that there might be people who you might the last, as much as the Memorial Staff decided that a Certain Group of patients might collapse. This idea is that perhaps their care would require too many resources, if you save that person. You might lose to other people. Or perhaps you dont even have the resources in that situation to save them. But interestingly enough, when we look at the triage protocols that say that our indolence units in america use the prehospital triage, i was surprised to learn that there are roughly nine wellrecognized systems in the u. S. And they dont all agree that category because there is a danger in creating it. Which is if you designate a set of people, we are not always good at predicting which of the patients will have no chance of survival and youll have a chance if rescued first grader has not been a lot of rescue research and i would urge anyone watching today who might be in the sciences or know a young person who is going up and wanting to research something important in the medical field. We do not even know, you know, how these different methods might impact in overall population and really triage is about normally we try to do our best for each individual patient. They come into the e. R. And we treat them according to how cute the situation is. In a situation like this crisis, we are looking to a populationbased approach. But what are we trying to maximize . The number of lives saved . Years of life . Quality years of life . Should we try to aim for justice or should we do it randomly. These are things that are still debated. And i do believe that we in america need to think about this and this particular story is one example. But we face these types of situations across our health care system. You think about who gets resourcing and who doesnt or when we prepare for a pandemic, for example. There are discussions starting to go on that would help medical professionals make these decisions and guide them. But these guidelines are being made, for the most part, by small groups of health care professionals. They may have very different values and so i would urge anyone who is interested in this to get involved and to take a look at your Health Department website in your state and see what is going on in terms of development of these guidelines. Host the next call comes from jana in poulsen, montana. You on booktv. Go ahead with your question. Thank you. Caller i was interested in how many of those people [inaudible] guest okay. Host why is that important to you . And i think she hung up. Guest well, im glad to have a chance to answer such a question. Because in the book i did not really make it clear. When i felt that the race of a person if and felt like it wasnt necessary to always mention i. And so some people have assumed that this was perhaps euthanasia of all africanamerican people. Because there was this doctor who spoke about this and he had said something when i interviewed him, having to do with race and the fears in new orleans, having to do with historical issues of race. I think sometimes is a disaster leads we just looked on our communities. And perhaps those potential fissures can open up we are not careful and if we allow ourselves to fear others. But i should say that one as best as i can tell when i looked at the 20 patients who received those, it is about half and half between american and caucasian and white and whatever words we once used to denote those races. And i am not sure what we dont know. That is the denominator that we do not know in terms of the overall racial breakdown, if you will, of the 250 patients were there originally. I can certainly say that wasnt all one race or another who received those in who died and they had a very low socioeconomic status as well. Host to the families of these patients get involved . Guest they did. I think some would assume that if the families out of office would be a merciful act, thank you for putting my loved one out of the misery, in this awful situation and maybe they did not have a great chance to survive. Part of the problem was in some respects the staff did not even know where they were sending people to and whether the next place would have the kind of of care that people would need. But the Family Members were not asked what they wanted. Several were present and were made to leave their loved ones besides to evacuate themselves. And i would say that almost every single one was maybe one exception feels like this was wrong in the loved one still had value and their life in some effort should of been made to rescue them. And this was a fascinating part of five days at memorial life and death in a stormravaged hospital, it takes you all the way to today and it takes you right up to Hurricane Sandy and some of the more recent disasters. And we have found that one of the big challenges and tough decisions that have to be made, even short of euthanasia and this question of who gets potentially lifesaving resources at a time of crisis and it often Family Members are not involved. And i think you could say that its such a crisis so how can we possibly do that. But there is an example where before Hurricane Sandy was approaching, there was a hospice and i believe its the very first hospice of america. And they realized that they are on the ocean and they have to evacuate in short order and they assumed that they would move the most fragile and sickest, closest to death patients first. Of course providing comfort care to people that were not expected to live very long. But they took that extra step and a little bit of extra time in the crisis and they asked the families and they found something to this staff did not anticipate, which is that the Family Members of those closest to death one of them to go last. They wanted every chance for their loved one to dive hospice where they had chosen to be. So they reverse the order. If we ask that question, we can find things that we never would have anticipated. And its so crucial. Host the next call for sheri fink comes from sheila in louisiana. Sheila, where is your town in louisiana . Caller hello. I really liked your book. I am south of monroe, louisiana. Hello . Host please go ahead and we are listening. Caller yes, i liked your book. I think these doctors have a tough call. And there was a leper colony before Hurricane Katrina hit up the coast of new orleans. What happened there . We never heard anything. We never heard anything about that. I have researched. Guest i didnt hear. Host we will let the caller go. She wanted to know what happened to the leper colony near new orleans. Guest oh i dont know. Host how much did it cost the Health Care Systems . Guest not only were these doctors and nurses brought before a grand jury, which i should say did not indict. But there were many lawsuits against the corporation itself. One lawyer described it as a failure to prepare for potential and possible disaster. They knew that hurricanes to hit new orleans and they knew that there could be flooded and they knew that there was a vulnerability in many of the hospitals. So the hospitals many times have been sued by the people who were in them. Not only them, but those who suffered during the days of heat and fear and one in particular was satisfied as an action on behalf of everyone in the hospital, except for the staff because of Workers Compensation could not be part of that lawsuit. And so just as it reached this stage of jury selection, the corporation and the plaintiffs settled for 25 million without any sort of compensation or responsibility. So that money was divided up this year. People just received it this year. Everyone ive talked to is pretty much unhappy with the amount that they received and people feel that one daughter of one patient who had received the drugs and died, who led her own lawsuit, because you could still have individual lawsuits acting out of the class action. She settled this year and she said that she just felt like the amount was not enough to make a corporations and carter about Disaster Preparedness and making these investments. And you must wonder if maybe we need to regulations. The state of new york is looking at improving the Building Code. Strengthening the Building Code of our Critical Infrastructure. And not only do you want hospitals and nurses and im sorry, hospitals and Nursing Homes not to be places of danger, all of us may need them ourselves and that is the moment, if theres an earthquake or a hurricane or whatever. An attack of some sort. We need that to service and to be able to continue functioning. The thinking about strengthening the building cousin who is going to pay for that, it is a big question for our country. Host nicole and brooklyn. You are the last call for sheri fink. Caller hello, i really love this book. I just think he was amazing. And i have a question. Number one, regarding the issue do the doctors feel that the patients in the hospital was worse than giving these patients their debt. And second of all, this is an argument in a disaster situation in american law does not apply anymore. And its very disturbing and i just wanted to get your thoughts on those two things. Guest sure, thank you. About american law not apply anymore. I think that american law still applies. I think that obviously it was difficult to apply in this situation. But juries do have discretion and they are able to, you know, in this case it became a question as to whether the grand jury heard all of the evidence, or whether they maybe didnt hear all the evidence because it was a very unpopular case at that point. But even if they heard it, they may have decided that, you know, with their discretion or thinking that it possibly, but something done in this case would not require punishment. So there is that discretion. And i forgot what the first part of the question was. Host i did as well, and i apologize. We both apologized. Nicole in brooklyn. She got part of it answered. I want to ask you finally, who designed the cover . Guest chris brand and i think its brilliant. You may take it out of the wrapper for the box and think it is water damaged and that is exactly the effect that we were after. Host we have tried to fix it a couple times here. [laughter] host doctor sheri fink, thank you so much for being on booktv here. This program was part of the 30th annual Miami Book Fair international. For more information, please visit the Miami Book Fair. Com. Now on booktv, warren cole smith, associate publisher of World Magazine presents his thoughts on why the press, which he asserts once reported the news from christian perspective, has now adopted an antichristian bias. This program is about 15 minutes. [applause] thank you, john. It is great to be with you today and the other good folks at heritage. Senator jim demint, all of you. I appreciate this. We will be talking about prodigal press confronting the antichristian bias of the American News media, as john said. The book was written originally 25 years ago. And it has been a widely used in College Classrooms around the country and much has happened in the past 25 years. The 24 7 new cycle that john referred to is, of course, facilitated in part by the internet. The original book was written and published in 1988. The internet was nearly a gleam in the eyes of al gore. But since then the internet has really driven what happens in the new cycle. So we felt like it was due for an update on the started working in this about three years ago and it was just published in the month of september and we have been delighted by the reception of the book so far. So what im going to do today is just share with you some of the ideas that are in this book. I want to talk a little bit about world news group, just to give you an idea of who we are. Even though john did