And thank you tonight for cspan for being here. This is a first for me. Maybe you guys are used to this. Im going to cover just a few basic things before we get started. Copies of the book are available downstairs. I think they are at the register. You can purchase them there and then bring them up here to get signed after the event. If you could take a moment silence your phones, i think we would all appreciate that. Youre welcome to take photographs. You can post them on social media, if theyre good. And then after the event, or after the author has finished speaking it will be a q a. Then if you could please wait for a mic, come by with a a microphone so we can all hear your question, that would be great. All right, lets get started. James hornfischer, hes a writer, a literary agent and a former book editor. He is the author of the New York Times bestseller neptune inferno, the last and other 10 can sailors and the ship of goes. Hes widely acclaimed historical accounts of the u. S. Navy in the pacific during world war ii have been praised for the detailed descriptions and sharp insights. He has given keynote lectures at the naval academy, and he is a frequent guest speaker on the history channel, fox news and that youth and civic groups. A graduate of the ut law school, he now lives in austin. His latest book, the fleet at flood tide is published just in time for the 75th anniversary of the attack on pearl harbor. It is the extraordinary story of the most consequential campaign at the pacific war. The u. S. Fifth fleet seizure of the mariana islands. This relentless deployment open the path to total victory over japan and establish a new state of the art and warfare. Here to give you the details on this extraordinary historical event is james hornfischer. [applause] thank you, brenda. I appreciate it. Ive always been very happy and proud that my hometown of austin, texas, is home to one of the greatest independent bookstores in america, bookpeople, here. Its a community center, events such as these are salons if you will, bring such a diversity of authors and to give so much vibrancy to the community that i have called home for 23 years so im proud to be here for the third time i think, and especially happy that cspan is here to turn our discussion and the presentation into an opportunity for readers around the country to connect, so thank you for being here. Much appreciated. Ive had the great opportunity the Great Fortune to turn a lifelong interest, my interest in the navy and the pacific during world war ii into an ongoing project. This series of narrative histories that, First Published back in 2004, was a battle near to pick its ambitions didnt extend to far beyond the nation of telling the story of this improbable upset victory that our navy one over japan in october 1944. It benefited a great deal of engagement in the interviews an ongoing conversation with the veterans of that battle. Only a tiny handful of those guys are leftright now. Its been 15 years. Over the course of my projects ive seen the participation of that generation diminish from book to book. My second book ship of ghosts is about a single ship, the uss houston. There were lost early in the war march 1942. The survivors taken prisoner and made slaves of that notorious project, the railway. All through the war so that book carried to their story 33 and half years of war and of the step up in scope and ambition. The third book Neptune Stanford is a camping history covering in close detail a six month period of time in which the navy fought seven major sea battles for control of the aisle island of guadalcanal. The fleet at flood tide attempts to take on the story of the in game of the pacific war, really for the better part of 1944 and all the way through to the end, not just for the surrender of japan onboard the uss missouri but all the way to the occupation itself. I think that shows as so much, that estimates to show us about what the american war effort was all about. So this book then covers a large part of history and encompasses diverse operations on air, land, and sea. The Marianas Campaign operation forge or involve the successive invasions of three important islands. These islands wer are strategicy vital. They were within striking distance of the japanese home islands that became heights of b29 bombers, and beginning around thanksgiving making 44 the bombing of japan begins from these islands. The u. S. Seizure of the Three Islands lets move to the next slide. Whicwhich you will see at the cr of the detail map, top right, the seizure of these islands provokes japan into its largest counter stroke against the use offensive of the war, the battle of the philippines is the largest Aircraft Carrier battle of world war ii. Japan since the entire combined fleet to contest the u. S. Invasion of the marianas and to precipitate the battle of carriers that was more than three times the size of the battle of midway. There were 15 years Aircraft Carriers in that engagement, nine japanese. By the end of it, really the question of why the japan will have a carrier navy has been settled. This finishes bama. So thats a major story that itself has been the subject of many books. The third element of my story is really embodied in the person of the man at right in this light here, paul tibbets, the founder of americas first, worlds first atomic striking force. He takes command of the composite group and hi a special mission is to deliver the atomic weapon, to atomic weapons against japan and to fly specially modified b29 bombers in that mission. So the operation forger quickly precipitates something far larger than just another amphibious operation. It will becomes a battle to decide the pacific war and becomes the fulcrum, the marianas, those critical items become the focal against which we wield Strategic Airpower against japan and finally force the imperial of the japan to surrender. So these three figures of my devices. We have diverse Naval Operations and ai our operations. We have three prominent, very willful i think interesting characters at the center of the story. Raymond spruance, the commander, i find beatles and Rolling Stones people, the world divides itself among the two types. In the context of the navy and the pacific, youve got spruance people and you have all see people. Spruance so reserved, so analytical, so thoughtful, so intellectual. Both of them so tremendously effective with holsey theres always a degree of risk to what he was doing. With spruance the japanese came to know him as the man who was impossible to trap. So in the marianas, their contrasting styles will become pronounced. Naval history buffs like to speculate what might happen if spruance his role and holsey his role had been flipped. So thats a partner argument that can get rather heated. Polarizing figures and, indeed, the start of the Marianas Campaign, indicates a spruance, become that at this huge carrier battle which pits one side of innatanegg against another. The air admiral socalled because theyre all rated as pilots. They became ever group commanders, fleet commanders, committed to the proposition that the true power of the navy in the form of these Ugly Duckling ships sending aircraft hither and yonder to think everything in sight. Spruance did not come up to these ranks. He was a battleship man, and so the fact that he did not cut his teeth in cares is constantly held against him and his partisans from the air admiralty resent him, and now for his audacity in conducting to the person of the subordinate mark nature, the battle of the philippines. So the navy fight for its own soul takes place this controversy with his subordinates and coequals and becomes a thing of the book, a very character centered, its rooted in the tradecraft of naval warfare, circa 194445, the45, the rights of the Aircraft Carrier which comes in the focus in the marianas. At center with kelly turner who is the subordinate, command of the fifth amphibious force. The navy is undergoing conservation not only in terms of the types of ships that fight for control of the sea but also in terms of the type of ships the project power. Turner was in charge of the Ugly Ducklings of the amphibious force, lsd, lcm, lci, all the amphibious ships better to carry troops across the ocean to assault amphibious objections, islands and so forth. Turner is the modern master of this. That mary had his campaign is the first large island that he undertakes, 46 square miles, very deep terrain, a large inmate gerson and becomes sort of a proven count ground and also some surprises for the americans they become very faithful and as a Campaign Rolls along and some of 1944. Finally we have paul tibbets, i indicated use the commander of the composite group, the b29 outfit tasked with ending the war from these islands. Now, the title of the book the fleet at flood tide, this suggests in the following eye chart, im sorry if this is hard to read from the back of the room, apologies also to the home audience on cspan. We have a graphic indicating production 19431944, and it really shows the growth of the fleet, the large silhouettes will command your attention Aircraft Carriers and battleships. The navy is surging into being through 194315 large and mediumsized 1943, 15 quickly taken under nimitz wing andy reid forges the navy along the lines of the Aircraft Carrier battle group. Battleships as welcome well, des to screen and protect them but at lower right, the Landing Craft, youll see some positively huge numbers. Single digits for the battleships and carriers, annual production. Its in the area of land and crap that we really see the transformation of the fleet and whether fleet acquires this metaphorical new dimension, the flood tide. Way of Landing Craft on the order of 21,000 produced in 1943 and 37,000 produced in 1944. This will be the fleet that really wins the western pacific campaign. Turner arrives in the summer of 1944, june 15, now mind you, its been 90 since the landings in normandy. Almost simultaneous with this with got this operation innocent pacific. Its always overshadowed by dday, the Normandy Landing but this is the other dday. June 15, 1944, saw two divisions of the United States marine corps go ashore on the southwestern beach of saipan as well as a division of youth army and reserve 27th infantry. As i indicated saipan is a rubicon because its here. These islands are essentially south of tokyo. Theyre white along the 145th line 45th line of meridian. Tokyo is 140. This provokes japan to a massive counterstrike, and the fight for the island itself is seen individual as a preview of a way to further to the west come take the with regard to possible landings in the islands of japan. What we have inside bent but for some anywhere in the pacific is not only craggy terrain, large land mass, with a 1500foot foot mound at the center, provides cover for artillery and mortars. But something very important exist on saipan that americans can for the first time and that is the presence of civilians. Japanese sugar farmers and plantation workers are there in great numbers, 25,000 some odd job japanese civilians are on saipan. And, of course, as a military gerson, 30,000 japanese soldiers protecting saipan but what you have is a mixed militarycivil society that we are proceeding to take by force. And the reaction, the dynamics of the threeweek campaign for saipan really changes the way the americans look at the war. Especially the american commanders who are tasked with landing in the home islands. Just to get a sense of what saipan looks like, the mangrove forest, the limestone, the craggy case and cliff faces, the basaltic lava beaches. One of the features of this campaign will be the reefs surrounding saipan required for the first on a fairly large employment of underwater demolition man, the socalled demolition swimmers. The frogman of the navy seals to operate with turners force as the recognizance judah, scout up the lagoon comfy at the best avenue for the landing ships to approach. Once the marines get ashore there quickly swallowed up in a battle where the lines are very blurry indeed. The marines struggle in a fight for saipan to hold their lines type, to prevent infiltrators and it gets very difficult, 13,000 americans will become casualties in this campaign, about 4000 dead. So you can see here how terrifying it must have been. Saipan also sees one of the first city fights anyway in the pacific, the japanese capital is the site of some fairly intense combat. And so the invasion takes place on june 15, and almost immediately the japanese contest the american lodgment. The admiral brings the entire combined fleet, and the americans meeting of what becomes the battle of philippines c. This is kind of a test case of tepco employment of the kerry force for what becomes controversial is the fact that spruance never gets his carrier command is licensed to rome west and seek battle with the japanese fleet. He yokes them close to the islands and so they stand task force 15 carriers stay close, kind of west of guam in a covering position because spruance realizes the objective here are the islands themselves. The air admirably cant wait to get hold of the case, send them to the bottom but spruance is this Strategic Mission in mind. The amphibious force, three divisions on saipan are the reason for the mission. And, indeed, the consequences are holding these islands would become strategically vital. And so he throws the leash around, and hold position close to the islands what this means is that the navy has to absorb the first blow as the Japanese Carriers approaches. Theyve got scouting aircraft flying from the islands. They have sightings of our force and so on june 19, 1944, the socalled great marianas turkey shoot takes place, the battle of Philippine Seas acquires this nickname for the aircraft american pilots claim in battle. Some 380 japanese planes are claimed shut down undo 19. Why . It has a lot to do with the world, hellcat fighter and is more to do with our mastery of air search radar and the Rapid Transmission between ship and Squadron Commander of vectors and so forth, the fighter direction teams are able to control the combat air patrol to the point where we intercept the japanese almost on a straight line, just at the right altitude. Why does that matter of course our pilots are intercepting sufficiently will have plenty of fuel left to engage and so in a series of air battles through the day of the 19th, these 380 kills, this guide his score is posted. This just about takes care of any possibility that japanese power can ever again fight as an effective force. Mark major is the air admiral who wants to sink carriers. They see their Mission Accomplished in a different way. Without aircraft worker Aircraft Carriers . This is what spruance accomplishes in the marianas to very convincing effect. And so one of the greatest set pieces that follows on the next day is when spruance finally does authorize strikes. With absorbed a series of air attacks on the 19th and, of course, were still casting search planes, they are all searching for the japanese fleet. Our subways managed to make some sightings. Two japanese gears are put down by submarine sunk on the 19th. But seven more Japanese Carriers are roaming out there somewhere to the west and late in the day on the 20th you with citing aircraft, search aircraft make a sightings. The reason it presented from is the site is made late in the afternoon of the 20th, at any prospect of a strike will have two involve a nighttime recovery which are pilots were not trained for. Late on the 20th mitscher sends out strike planes such as these hell divers and he managed to sink at their Japanese Carrier and the recovery into the socalled turn on the light episode so the planes takeoff late in the afternoon if they make their strikes right run sunset and on the return of kind of a different circumstance were pilots are navigating in some cases wounded low on fuel trying to find task force for the Aircraft Carrier to land. The standard doctrine at night is to black out everything. A cigarette butt can be seen for miles by the enemy submarine skipper comments of the strict blackout protocol in place, and so the piles navigating home. They have radio beacons to a system but are making their way in this desperate way of late in the evening when all of a sudden the fuel is running tight. They have a sense of their close. They can hear the deacon. They can make radio, packed with him ship and all of a sudden the nighttime erupts in life. Every searchlight on every destroyer, crews come battleship entered task force 58 is soaring skyward state face huge 24inchn arc searchlights with handheld searchlights, every sailor top light and it is a heaven sent reprieve for all these pilots. This episode kind of segments the loyalty of our naval air corps. Aviation exhibition now only a victory but one of sort of unit cohesion shown by the admiralty to its pilots. So pilots this day, f14 pilots will still talk about this night as something thats very important in their history. I can come into an incredible set piece and i folded this into the story of how the navy is going to do its business have any age of the Aircraft Carrier as they charge was towards the final reckoning in the home islands of japan. Here we have a picture of Japanese Carriers absorbing some blows. Meanwhile, back in saipan the story is acquiring some gravity. The marines are confronting civilians now for the first time, as i said, on a battlefield. We sort of assume that the civilians would come to our lines, hands up to be taken into custody, to be taken back to the internment camps, to be given medical care. To be treated for the words, to be fed, to be given water. But thats not what happens on saipan. The japanese have been fed some terrible propaganda but the nature of the American Fighting men. They are told that marines noted that enlistments accepted have to kill their mothers. They are told that if you are taken prisoner by americans, your children will be eaten, your women will be raped and youll be killed in short order. This is a fairly persistent message delivered by the Japanese Army to the civilians on saipan and other Japanese Garrison islands. And so when american troops push inland and start engaging japanese troops in ground combat, they find civilians with them. The civilians have been herded up, being held essentially prisoners by their own nations military in caves in many cases. They are seldom surrendering, and as a lines push north and as saipan is secured in the course of the threeweek fight for the island, we have some really horrible atrocities taking place. Japanese troops are killing their own people rather than allow them to take prisoner. And then in the northern tip of saipan the real tragedy is we have japanese civilians so tepid of the americans that their leaping to the depth from cliffs. They are killing their own children. This is absolutely stunning to you every american soul on this island. It was a tragedy from the japanese standpoint to be sure, but when americans see this, their eyes are utterly disbelieving. In july 1944 when admiral nimitz, shown here, commander in chief of this pacific fleet, in the company of general holland smith, the marine corps commander, and admiral ernest king, chief Naval Operations is a saipan. They are given a tour of the island. They are shown the spectacle of bodies drifting in the surf at the bottom of cliffs, children, and theres a widespread sense of utter disbelief on the part of the american commanders. Whats important about this campaign is shortly after this reconnaissance takes place of our top pacific commanders, nimitz returns to hawaii and king returns to the west coast. Each of them in turn in july 1944, president roosevelt comes to life or strategy meeting when he sits down with nimitz Angela Macarthur to decide on the westward path across the pacific. The following months, admiral king goes to quebec city where he joins president roosevelt and the socalled octagon conference, meeting at the combined chiefs of staff, the hotel front in quebec city with a larger question of allied war strategy is handled. So churchill is there with his top people. Fdr is there with his top people. King is one of them. King is fresh from this jawdropping experience in the marianas islands. And what we see coming out of the meeting is something i thik is very important i think we cross the line into this horrible resolve. I call it total war. Its not my formulation. Its a term that suggests no longer will we abide selfimposed restrictions on the way we fight. All weapons will be used, and the goal will be as before, the goal will be Unconditional Surrender of our enemy. But all options are now on the table. In the mary ennis use the army topical aviation deploying napalm for the first time in a large scale. And we see the Strategic Bombing of japan in the form of b29s which are basic but for some innocent pacific, really 1300 miles south of tokyo just within range. Their willingness to use these weapons against civilian Population Centers is practiced here. We have the bombings, the bombs that proceed from the marianas target city. All the signal, here are the cliffs before we move along but what i wanted to get to wise the words of fdr himself following these revelations come following the revelation in hawaii Planning Session with macarthur and nimitz and then following the meetings in quebec city at the octagon conference. We see fdr to macarthur august nighttime you been doing really magnificent job against what were great difficulties given us by climate and by certain human animals. September 16, 1944, the allied press can mitigate following the octagon francaise. Conference. We have an official allied press communique which says in part and a very short space of time they reach a decision on all points, both with respect to the completion of the war in europe, now approaching its final stages, and the destruction of the barbarians of the pacific. This language i find kind of stunning. It certainly i made a bold face and put it in red because thats how it struck me in the initial reading, these words, these words are daggers, if you will. They are very out of phase with what you would expect from allied commanders. I guess in private correspondence you might expect that the are to be a little salty with one of his Principal Army commanders, but an official press can mitigate you wouldnt expect use correlation such as the barbarians of the pacific. Its by since the revelations of saipan triggered this willingness to see the enemy in this way. I dont believe that america fought this war as a race war. I think the reaction to the nature of the fighting led kind on come at the frontline juicy dehumanizing dynamic coming into play. I think japan did conceive of the war, in part as a pushback against western colonialism. We can get into this later if you want i suppose in the q a but there were specific elements of a race war in the japanese notion of the greater east steer and you see the way this homogenous culture inflicted itself upon asia as having this element of race, the rape of nanking, the wholesale enslavement of koreans, the racist framing of the fight against the west against america and the british. But in this language, you really start to see the pushback, the recognition that were up against something other than an enemy that we can reckon with kind on traditional terms. Not to get too heavily into that but i think this points to whether Marianas Campaign was as i said this rubicon where you have an awareness on the part of fdr himself that theres an alien this, theres an extreme sense of other to the enemy. And this language like this activates a certain willingness to use any and all means in the course of defeating that enemy. Saipan and guam, guam is rolled up in august of 44 and almost immediate the armies Aviation Engineers and nady seabees have a bulldozer in that transfer these islands it will be the largest air complex anywhere in the world for strategic bombers. We have a picture of the b29 taxiing for takeoff. As i said earlier, thanksgiving 1944 where the first strikes against japan using conventional bombs, high explosives will i helped to pick the idea was within the Army Air Force precinct was that we could wait the scent of war against japan that we waged against germany come socalled precision bombing, precision definitely in air quotes again these are strikes against cities. Cities contain military factories. That was the comingling at civilian and military targets but initial idea was we can bomb japan for High Altitude peculiar problem was, japan was these a jet stream the wins run the western pacific insured bomb stopped at High Altitude would be notoriously inaccurate and the first strikes committed by the 21st Bomber Command from the marianas were utter failures. We had aircraft losses, very negligible accuracy pixel curtis lemay relates him in early 1945 relieves and changes away the waste Strategic Air power fight. No altitude and using incendiaries. The slide in front is taken from b29s striking the japanese city in early 1945. These are not the little egg shaped high explosive bombs that you typically see, you know, the eighth air force dropping over germany or dive bombers topic on Aircraft Carriers. These are incendiary clusters, devilish little things. If you go to youtube you can find the training video that shows how they work. A burst at altitude, dispersed little six pounds in 69 insincere bomblets and when he hit the ground they spurt this devilish chemical off, its some chemical composition evolving phosphorus and napalm, and it starts, since if i would ever touches and so most impossible to put out. Army planners realize japan would be an ideal target for this type of weapon while before the war started. We also used them against germany as well. It was not exclusively reserved for japan but at eglin air for air force field of florida, the plan was, army planners on the japanese cities were very susceptible to incendiary bombing. And so general lemay commences the offensive against japan. Were talking three dozen major cities burned out, you know, 50 of its square mileage of these urban areas, 50 50 or more of e urban area of 30 or more japanese cities entirely burned out. The losses in these strikes toward the atomic rates. On march 10, 1945, the bombing of tokyo, the fire borrowing of tokyo killed 100,000 japanese civilians. These are considerably more than died in and either of the atomic strikes. Whats stunning and i think whats at the root of the necessity for this type of warfare had to do with the views of this man shown right here. He was the Imperial Japanese war minister. He yelled additional duty on the emperors supreme or direction counsel. This was a six man body basically said in prayer japans war policy. He and two of his colleagues on that body were absolutely unreconstructed dead enders about come in the sense of how far are we willing to carry this war. Their view was that the penalty for defeat should be the death of every man, woman and child. And they argued this view at every meeting of the supreme or direction counsel through the summer of 1945, two tremendously tragic results. And so my book looks not on at the operational side of the American Military in the marianas from 4445, but it looks very close it also at japanese politics, japanese war policy. And the people of the socalled big six. Their role was utterly tragic. It was their dead inter philosophy insured that the means of war that were being carried out would fall upon japan in the hardest possible way. And it is utterly tragic or for the japanese people, for the people in inland as you were under the Japanese Occupation and for everybody involved in the pacific war. That the willingness to surrender was simply nonexistent at the level at which they could have mattered. You can find a lot of japanese commanders knew the war was over as soon as the sum of 1944, a full a full year before the Strategic Offensive begins. You will see a lot of complaining and even some political scheming, indeed, with the fall of the marianas in the summer of 44. The Prime Minister is sacked. He of course was the head of the highly militaristic Japanese Army click that took over Japanese Foreign policy in the 30s and carried the war to this point. The fall of the marianas seized tojo sacked and in his place he is succeeded by a Prime Minister who is far less militaristic, but really its not a good thing. Its not a good thing at all that suzuki, his successor, is really ineffectual. It essentially cede control to the war counsel, and the war counsel with its three out of six members total dead enders, their primacy and japanese policy war policy and planning is insured. This is a propaganda leaflet that were dropped, the likes of this leaflet were dropped by the tens of thousands over the home island of japan and every garrison ivan in the western pacific. The americans realized that we have to find a way to persuade japan that defeat is upon them at. We have to give them an opportunity to surrender with their pride intact. This cultural dynamic is at the center of this propaganda effort which is detailed and some very revealing document that i found in my research where they talked about how to communicate with japanese civilians, japanese soldiers. How do we give them the space, how do we allow them the opportunity to surrender with the dignity intact. If i can simplify this, the line that we use essentially went, you know, great warrior, he fought nobly for your country, but tragedy is upon all of us, and the war, lay down your weapon and come to us with your dignity intact. We will feed you, we will clothe you, we will give you medical aid and we will ensure that betr able to help with your nation out of the tragedy o of the sore and into a brighter future. Come to our show gone, surrender to our show guns, general smith, and he will, not show mercy but he will treat you with respect. This was the message. Also used this imagery that suggests the illegitimacy of this click, emperor, this predatory military and social click that had japan under its boot in 1945. And so we are waging a Propaganda Campaign and spreading this message very purposefully. But it doesnt, obviously, they are quick results. It doesnt bring fruitfully until the final chapter is read in the form of the atomic mission. Long story short, the Strategic Bombing rolls through the sum of 45 towards the fall. We are terrible losses. The japanese are suffering terribly to the hands of the 21st Bomber Command. Meanwhile, the island campaigns in the western pacific are becoming increasingly costly. Iwo jima, okinawa and finally the atomic bombings are the final tragedy in this epic story. It is simply a historical fact that not before august 9 the bombing of nagasaki was japan ever ready to throw the towel on the pacific war, on the war effort. Its only when the inferior distance from his sort of divine removed and evolves himself in the controversy that is raging in his own big six and a Supreme Court direction counsel that estimate is possibly the imperial is stripped august 15 as his announcement to a station that this war really needs to be ended in the name he adopts this pretense that japan is doing this great favor to the world which i guess it sort of dead. It was only within japans power, only japan had the ability to end this war. America could not end the war for japan. The great tragedy of the pacific war was that it required means so harsh to force this result and, you know, i guess its much to transfer his credit but he had the courage to break with Japanese Culture and tradition to send from his semi divine removed, come talk to the big six and carefully explained to them that this war had to end. Now, my book carries pass the surrender of, the surrender ceremony on the decks of the uss missouri on september 22, 1945. I spent a lot of time looking at how the occupation itself kind of carried on this idea that japan would be rebuilt, that japan would continue, that the nation of japan would not be dealt with in this punitive way. And here general Douglas Macarthur i think turns in his most important effort as a fivestar commander. He was named Supreme Commander allied powers, scat. It was given to macarthur to take the planet was to be the invasion of japan, this twophase plan, operation olympic and coronet and basically use as a mission of mercy. Were going to occupy japan, were going to demilitarize a nation, except at the surrender of its armed forces, but were going to do so in a way that allows their traditions to survive and, indeed, affects surrender by, with answer the emperor, his police, all the mayors of the different areas of the country were going to leave that in place so that this ordinary way of life that the services that the japanese citizens are used to receiving from the government continue, that there isnt this kind of punitive removal of all public officials. So this really was mac arthurs greatest moment as a leader i think, the way, he has this massive ego and this self possessing sense of come hes the man from op him. He has this divine sense of mission and its really, we need a man like macarthur to resume to command and emperor, hirohito, subject to macarthur wishes and orders. But it was in preserving the political edifice of japan that i think the foundation for americas great position in the cold war, having japan as an ally for the postwar period, it was effected through the surrender proceedings and the manner of occupation, a man in which japan was occupied. Its a terrible and tragic story. I tried to enfold a lot of subject matter into one volume, taking the last 18 months of the war from the invasion of the marianas to the strategic result, highly important purposes to which those islands were put. Ive tried use a narrative storytelling style to make it accessible, but to do justice to its complexity, operation and strategically. Literally spent a lot of time with people, showing people in their moment, resting with impossible circumstances and to the best they could. If i taken some criticism for my previous books, theres always the opportunity to do more with the japanese side. So when this book ive spent time developing utterly military personal but civilians. The civilian experience of this war was so fateful. In my work at the fdr library i found in john told the newspapes some incredible diaries from, well, in particular an 18yearold daughter of a sugar trader on saipan who wrote a very detailed memoir of her experiences confronting americas war power firsthand, and confronting the japanese and military brainwashing affects and determination never to surrender firsthand, caught in this lies. How did she find a way through . The store isnt much a part of this book and its one thread that i developed in the sort of attempt to reckon with the human tragedy of this war. Really kind of the most understandable, relatable level. It was a great challenge. Im proud of the book. Im delighted you here to talk to about and if you have any questions i think i would like to start taking notes right about now. So thank you, thank you very much. [applause] yes, after we dropped the second bomb di didnt have enouh material for a third . Yes. Los alamos wouldve had a third atomic bomb ready by the end of september, and Going Forward from there it would have been about three bombs a month. We went to bed 10 bombs through the end of 1945. Whats chilling is to see what the plans said about how they were to be used. Starting in october, november they were going to be used, atomic bombs are going to be using tactical support in the invasion of japan, which meant they would have been dropped on japanese troop concentrations two or three days ahead of an american assault. At the time there was no real understanding of the effects of gamma ray sickness, of nuclear atomic, or atomic fallout. It begs the imagination to see what that would look like. Something i get into the book is the experience of the hospital ship, uss haven, that pulls into the peer and august 1945 at nagasaki. They are there to evacuate u. S. Pows. Again, we were occupying japan, we are demilitarize in the japanese military, japanese society, and we are also tending to our own who are in great numbers all through as pow. So nagasaki, the pows are if i could and then, the japanese civilians who have just been to the bombing of nagasaki. Our navy medical teams had never seen with the japanese were calling the effects of gammaray exposure. There was was no understanding. Everybody understood that an atomic Chain Reaction released vast quantities of heat energy, but this next level of facts was a revelation. So yeah, and a sense, can you imagine american troops, the experience of atomic weapons on a battlefield all around japan, three bombs a month to the end of 45 . They would have used them. They would have used them. Speaking you said your interest in the pacific war came from your childhood. Can you tell us about any books or movies or things you did as a child that gave fruit to that, that gave seed to that interest . That was a whole lot of model building. As we got older in high school, by the time i left for college there wasnt a score age of my ceiling lift that didnt have a pushpin in it was some eightpound test or some monogram, aircraft hanging from it. My bookshelves filled with books but also ship models. As my come as we got older, we got into avalon war hill gaming. Black sheep squadron was on. It was terrible history. The storylines they made up for that series were ludicrous, but it was a gateway drug to the f4 you corsairs and all the hardware of the South Pacific campaign. It was a childhood passion. If you like lou gehrig says im the luckiest man on the face of the earth. I feel the opportunity to turn a childhood interest into Something Like this has been a real, ive been very fortunate in that respect. Bubut i left it behind. When you go off to college you cant study military history in college. Save for a handful of institutions, the service academies, texas a m ohio state may be. Liberal arts. This has to be kind of a hobby pics i reconnected with this stuff when i started my career in book publishing. Thats been empowering i think. Some of writing has been an outgrowth of my work in book publishing. So with fewer and fewer actual of veterans from world war ii are alive, did you have opportunity to do in in person interviews with combatants or participants . On this book, you know, i really have to tip my cap to the foresight of groups such as the Naval Institute whose Oral History Program is wide and deep, and so expertly done. It allows us, you do, to tap into the well of Human Experience forevermore because of the foresight in collecting these testimonies. The answer is no. I mean, i think and what are my sons boy scout trips to louisiana without a fiddler in cajun country who actually drove and lci. He was there at one of the history sites. I remember interviewing him on the side. He was outside saipan and he was quoted in the book, merlin. You can look them up. That may be the only living interview i did for this book. I can with a Campaign Narrative like this, the focus is at the strategic level. And so at quantico the diaries and oral histories of individual marines of the second and fourth division, i used those heavily. Bubut i really did miss i think the experience of talking to men that only individually but in the company of their shipmates and fellow marines and soldiers. When i wrote last stand of the tin can sailors i went to a large number of these reunions and got a sense of the social network and the bonds. Thats not Historical Data as such but its an energy and ive missed tapping into it. With this book. How do you use Research Assistance in your book . You said Research Assistance courts these are, as a friend of mine says, the works alone, these are handcrafted. So every snapshot of a document, every photocopy, you know, i do it all. And so this book was fairly ambitious in scope and needed, the way i segregate my work tax, the first couple of years, you know, stealing time for my ongoing work as a literary agent, on weekends and to go to repositories and just collect material. I dont worry about writing that i feel like ive gotten a Critical Mass of documentary evidence that i can write from it. So no, i do it all myself. Im not, well, i think we were very fortunate to have a whole lot of talent at the admiral level in our navy. Do you think it was more so than normal, or was it due to our great naval institutions, or will be a little bit of luck . You know, those kids that came out of the depression and world war i produced a whole lot of very talented admirals for us. Youve got a couple of different strata, i think im a personnel you are talking. You mentioned the depression. I was struck when is working on this story of the houston, where the survivors of that ship endured the horror of captivity. What could have prepared them for that level of a deprivation . What could have prepared them to be so tough to get her three years of japanese captivity on a cup of rice a day in burma . You got to say that, you know, that the depression prepared them, that being raised by an abusive father mightve paid an unexpected dividend in the jungles of burma, you know . A poor family. Theres that level. You can look at this at that level. You can look at the question of higher level military leadership. I think through an appreciation of chester nimitz. President roosevelt picked him from really come he was kind of an off menu choice come if you will, for president roosevelt. The first, the people who held kind of place on the list were a consensus choices by the peerage of the fleet. There was a list, kind of a ranked list of who the top guys worwere in nimitz wasnt on. So nimitz did something to present president mosul along the way, and the fact that nimitz was from the navy bureau of navigation which is some reason they gave it name back in the day, the head of personnel for the navy. So he did note the talent, and it was one of his greatest strengths was a think dealing with people, managing diverse personalities of ferocious will all around him. He could maintain his equanimity and his equilibrium and kind of keep everybody focus on the mission. Not to make the war effort, to give credit to one man but nimitz did have a gift. As for subverting fighting admirals from everybody else, the work itself took care of that. Thats the thing of my book on guadalcanal, the net tunes inferno. They were not a war fighters. By the end of the war you look at her submarine corps at the crop of people commanded submarines. There was a hard forging that took place over 43, 44, by the end of the war yet your red ramage is an much smarts and some real war fighters out there carrying the fight into any water the same thing with the arab groups and the pilots. The Training System as a setup, thats american genius for personal management and training processes pick the japanese sent the pilots to the front and discuss fought until they died. Our pilots, they would put together a fairly good tour, maybe 10 kills and go back to Corpus Christi or pensacola to train the next generation. So we have that going for us as well in terms of where our people came from. I think that was very important, but its a fascinating thing to look at, isnt it, where talent comes from and how people in the rise to the moma, raise to the occasion of the moment or dont. So many case studies that are think are eliminating, and should bear lessons for today. How do we took our leaders . Do we need politicians . Do we need fighters . And where should they be put in the hierarchy, what should their sphere of influence . Its different in peacetime i guess. Anything else . Yes. Could you comment about admiral halsy when he took on the japanese speak with . I Start Talking about what wouldve happened if spruance had been in trend once place and if halsy had been at Philippine Sea. A lot of people say everything wouldve gone better. We wouldve had the fiery aggressive commander at the Philippine Sea where he could chase Japanese Carriers and be aggressive, then some people say we needed spruance cooled methodical disproven at the tie of the japanese were trying to bait as into a mistake. You know, i think it worked out just fine. I think, the war was over by the time the campaign was underway. Its not to underestimate the loss of life that took place on october 25, 1944. Halsy made a terrible mistake, but admiral kincaid made a terrible mistake, and the two fleets that were under divided command, their failure to communicate, each site has some culpability in this pi. This is the first time that i can will point you were admiral nimitz had to share some culpability for assenting to turn ones demands to have this flexibly to abandon the beach it and go chasing Japanese Carriers if and when they turn up. Nimitz never shouldve given halsy that kind of discretion because he erred. He erred in facing what in hindsight we now know and really i suppose we could have known at the time where, you know, a threadbare, very people Japanese Carrier force. So trend line was the name we needed at guadalcanal when a risk taker, you know, the talents of a risk taker were kind of the need. But whats passing to look at, at the end of the war when the last fifth star is being given out by president truman, the choice comes down to spruance or halsy. Halsy was put, a board of inquiry had recommended courtmartial or halsy following his second experience with the typhoon, okay . And yet when this decision comes down which guy, the last fifth Star Promotion Company goes to halsy come at a think the rationale for it was well, in the early going when the war still couldve gone either way, halsy help Theater Command in the South Pacific. Spruance never had that. He was a fleet commander but he never had a whole theater. So lets remember the good halsy will look back at the start of the pacific. He made his share of mistakes are really at the time when the work couldve gone either way, his position was such that he goes down to the South Pacific, relieves gormley in 194 1942 and turns the whole thing around. That shouldnt be forgotten. Im of mixed mind of halsy a great hero, but great heroes will blunder. The japanese after the war, the japanese gave spruance the ultimate account limit koppelman. He was just too smart. He was cautious, reserved, discerning. He knew his intelligence and he knew what his mission was. You couldnt always say that about admiral halsy, but i dont think that takes a whole lot away from him because again, when the war was in the balance, he was only man who could have done what he did. Well, thank yo thank you very m. Ive appreciated your time this evening. [applause]. Or post a comment on our facebook page, facebook. Com book tv. Welcome to authors voice. The virtual book signing network. Im Daniel Weinberg and we are here at our studio, the bookshop in chicago which since 1938, weve