Transcripts For CSPAN2 Democracy In Chains 20170826

Democracy in chains. Ive made no secret of just how important i think this book is, in my humble opinion. [inaudible] we are doing our best, okay . Turn up the airconditioning back there . Okay, okay. My little experience in electoral politics, some of you might know i was on the Durham City Council for eight years in the previous lifetime. [applause] and it seemed to me then that one very important thing in politics is to understand your opponent, and understand where theyre coming from, what motivates them, what they are really trying to do. And as this book shows, i think, that our understanding of what is called at sometimes the radical right, the libertarian right, has been very limited, and that there has been a philosophy and a strategy that goes back decades that is behind much of what we see in politics now. I think there are a few things that can be more important for those of us who dont agree with that kind of politics than to read this book, understand it. And i think will be a much better position to counter the arguments that are being made on the libertarian right. Nancy maclean is the William Chafe professor of history in political science, right . And Public Policy at Duke University. She taught previously at Northwestern University where she served as chair of the department of history. She came to Duke University in 2010. We are very pleased, very happy to have her here. Thank you all for coming. Thanks, cspan, for covering this. Nancy maclean. [applause] wow, i am so thrilled to see how many of you are here. Its so nice to look at and see so many friends and colleagues at people i havent met yet but hoped you. So thank you so much for coming. I want to give a special thanks to tom who took an interest in this book way back when what i was still furiously writing and revising it is, in vikings catalog and tom called me or contacted me to set this up. Im grateful to be here. Its a wonderful bookstore. I hope you all stay and browse if you havent been here before. [applause] can you hear in the back . No. All comedy. Okay, im going going to get my big voice on, how is that . No. Is not a function of the microphone. [inaudible] i will do my best, folks. Can you hear me now . Good. Im going to tell you a little bit about how i came to this topic and what i learned i want to share with you a few passages from the book and then will open it up to the questions and comments and such. So i am a historian of social movement. I have a particular interest in the u. S. South. About te ten years ago i just finished another book and i was in philadelphia and went into the American Service Committee Archives and alert about a story i had never heard before even though i am a historian with emphasis on the south. And the story was the story Prince Edward county virginia in aftermath of round versus board of education where the county in the name of state sovereignty and individual liberties completely shut down the Public School system and sent all the white children off to private schools with public monies and let the black children with no schooling for five years because the students have had the temerity to go on strike in 1951 for a decent school, school that might be at least a little bit as nice as the white students school. And for the act which then funneled into brown v. Board of education, the Prince Edward case became one of the five cases in brown v. The board of education. For that active resistance the county leaders shut down the schools and let the children with no Public Education for five years. All they had was a social Movement Organizations could provide like the naacp, the american friends Service Committee and so forth. I was horrified by the story i i had never heard a special as an educator and i was deeply moved by what happened to the students. Students. I started to research that story and i learned that tuition grants can what we would today be calling vouchers, were crucial to the truth of what happened in Prince Edward county. And i learned that Milton Friedman, this is part of the Virginia Program of massive resistance to brown which led the entire south in doing and to learn that Milton Friedman, the chicago trained economist had issued his first manifesto for School Vouchers in 1955 after the news have been coming up from the south for several years by then at the most arched segregationists were threatening to set the Public Education rather than allow desegregation in defiance of the federal courts. So at first i thought all the common Milton Friedman is part of my story can let me keep him on the radar. I kept moving with my school story which was a civil rights meets neoliberalism story, you could say. In following footnote i learned of a 1959 report by two economists also trained at the university of chicago, James Mcgill Buchanan and were not her would set up the center of University Virginia in 1956. 1956. Arrived in september just after the General Assembly of virginia had passed this week of massive resistance loss. Im going to get a sense of that report, the 1959 report in a moment with the reading but i would just say it really shocked me to see to University Professors making an economic case for what the arched segregationists were asking, both radical committed segregationists in virginia were seeking. What really upset me, provoke me intellectually is that these economists were not making their case in racial terms. They were making it they said in the terms of the discipline but it was clear that they were opportunistically exploiting the crisis, tremendous crisis and tragedy that was unfolding in the south in order to push through their agenda. And, in fact, when they sent the report to one of the state legislation was one of the links of massive resistance, they said they were making the case in the terms of economics, the terms of the discipline letting the chips fall where they may. That phrase haunted me, letting the chips fall where they may. So that put buchanan and his colleague on my radar but i still thought the school story was my focus and that Milton Friedman was the surprise figured that i was tracing for the many connections he turned out to have two virginia people who are pushing for these tax subsidies for private education for segregated schooling for white children who did not want to go to school with black children. Then i learned again by chance from a political scientist who is transnational political scientist who also worked on latin america that although many people have heard Milton Friedman went to chile and advise the dictatorship on how to combat inflation, in fact, the Virginia School of James Buchanan have had everlasting effect. The beginning school, then i started to get interested in began, like what is going on . What trail have i happened on . So i continue to follow it and then the move to North Carolina in 2010 and at the point Milton Friedman was still the focus. He was the famous one, the one everyone you stuff about the what is he doing . Im following obvious connection and as you know, something happened in 2010. After the midterms, and radicalized Republican Party won majorities in both houses of the legislature, suddenly all these things i was reading in the canyons work, a man who wrote abstractly compassionate understand these abstractions and suddenly it became real, concrete and really frightening because i was seeing these ideas play out in what im sure you all remember and have responded to over the last few years. What i was seeing, comes from buchanans thoughts. He always argued it was a mistake to focus on the question of who rules. The real question was the rules. If you didnt like what was going on in a government, in a society, which none of his libertarian and rightwing and ultrafree Market College student like what was happening, so his argument was needed to focus on the rules and change the rules. And you need to break up collective power, the kind of power you would see in labor unions, and civil rights organizations, even the aarp, a retired people, any collective group that could make demands on government for tax resources that would lead to transfers of resources. That was a problem. His solution was to alter the nature of governance by radical rules change. Lets come back to North Carolina where this is becoming real to me. What we saw unfold in North Carolina after 2010 was radical changes one after another, extreme gerrymandering with the operation red map. Attempts to undermine unions particularly publicsector unions, hostility to Public Education at all levels, and radical cuts in funding for Public Education and changes to the governments of Public Education. Refused to accept Medicaid Expansion that was part of the Affordable Care act even though there is a desperate need among lowincome people for healthcare. Rolling back measure to protect the environment and address global warming, getting rid of the Racial Justice act. In instituting what some called the monster Voter Suppression law. What i found disturbing and evn frightening was that i could see this was an application of james prince edwarbuchanans ideas ofy guided by his understanding, hes unique of the political process, a come back to that in a moment because he had original insight and he won a nobel prize in economics site for the 1986, but driven, guided by his ideas and driven by a libertarian morality that says it would be better to let people die from lack of healthcare if they cannot afford to pay for it on their own if they did not say for it, then to receive them covered. Its a morale to donna dont think almost anyone in this room which yea share but i think its extremely important for us to understand that it is a coherent ethical system, and it is frankly think for some people a fanaticism that is shaping our Public Policy as we gather here. The bottom line idea is what they really mean by personal responsibility is that you should be on your own. You should be a self responsible individual and if you fail to say for your future needs, whether thats healthcare, whether that retirement security, whether that your childrens college or your own, tough luck. Your failure will teach other people that they need to conduct their lives differently and start saving from the moment they become essentially sent him. So okay, so i want to keep this moving. In january, so i knew i had to get into his private papers and was a collection at george mason to i been trying to get in. After buchanan died in january 2013, i finally get access to his private archive at george mason. Ironically, just as a Government Shutdown led by republicans who would been exposed to his ideas and trained in these ideas were engaging in this Government Shutdown in washington in the case of what buchanan might have called coercive bargaining. Such a cost of so many. It was just haunting to go into the archive with a totally when i had came out to the reader. In those papers, and they were everywhere. They were key attic. If you read the book, lets talk about it a bit. But papers fmi hypotheses confirmed in a way that literally took my breath away. One moment i will describe was finding the correspondence about his trip to chile in 1980 picky was invited in by actually the most antidemocratic civilian associate with the regime in order to advise on this constitution and they translate his work into spanish and they gave him audiences with all these regime figures and he gave up five public lectures that were recorded by the regime newspaper. He thanked them for the accuracy of those reports. And what, this is a 1980, chile was one of the worlds leading examples of what human rights mobilizations were beginning to become acute phenomenal because this dictatorship was brutal and it was clear they purchased university before he came. I could go on. The letter that really stop my heart was when he got back, he wrote a thank you letter to a man named sergio decastro is one of the top advisers to pinochet and he thanked them for the lovely lunch held in his honor, the wind in the jewelry given to mrs. Buchanan and something else. This is not a word about any of this but there is this Lovely Exchange between france and i thought it was someone set his life mission was promoting free society, promoting liberty. How do i get my mind around that . And so then i went on and took, and then another key moment was when i went upstairs into his personal office and found stacked helterskelter on the chair a series of letters from the blowup that happen after charles koch started investing massively in George Mason University and, in fact, some people connected with the operation engaged in what confidential whistleblower identified as probably illegal activity in its violation of the tax codes. That was also pretty heart stopping. In any event once i bought him these hundreds and hundreds a document that i copied and put them together with buchanans publish work and other sources, i found myself lying down pieces of a puzzle that sometimes to be honest literally nauseated me. When i saw the scope of the operations being guided by this individual, when i started to follow out the career trajectory that made out of this Training Center that they established at george mason and saw that people coming from this program, this Talent Pipeline were stacking of these major institutions of the Koch Brothers Donor Network world, it was shocking. And as it took the measure this project i saw something else, that the form of government that these men understood as ideal that they referred to as liberty mirrored that of midcentury virginia, minus the segregation. What am i getting at . A great political scientists sct published a book about southern politics just before these events and he said that virginia was the most oligarchical state in the south picky set next to virginia, mississippi as a hotbed of democracy. [laughing] so virginia, they had elite control like you couldnt imagine, this kind of unified elite, and harry byrd was the senator almost a corporate form and that elite made sure that they had their economic liberty, and that meant nobody else had the freedom. They didnt have much else besides. So in the name of liberty they practiced extreme Voter Suppression with the poll tax. They gerrymandered the General Assembly so it overrepresented rural conservative districts and underrepresented urban and suburban communities. They pass laws that prevented workers from organizing, even tax labor organizers who came in. It was absurd. And they brought in harry byrd was a big is grow in virginity he brought in right list immigrants to harvest his Apple Orchard because again that was liberty and these were the cheapest workers he could get to why should he employ American Workers who might have access to the constitution . Anyway, as a begin to trace the operation built up at George Mason University with koch money to apply began his understanding of political economy to come as charles koch said, he said when he gave this beget in 1997 when all of this really get going in earnest he said, i want to unleash the kind of force that propelled columbus to his discoveries. What was really interesting to me, too, is that he also said since we are greatly outnumbered, the failure to use our technology will essentially lead to continual failure. This is a man with three degrees from mit. When he speaks of technology hes talking about ideas that can create a great advantage. What he was doing was harnessing this understanding of political economy developed by buchanan in order to achieve what he wanted. I think you will know that he wants a very audacious, radical change in our institutions. Ready to did and its worth knowing this man is compared himself to martin luther. Hes got that messianic sense of his mission in life. So koch of the money and he been funding intellectual spies on description when he gave this morning for some three decades, until he found the technology he wanted. He found that at george mason and he turned it into an Operational Strategy for something that he can have long advocated a buchanan spoke of chaining leviathan when he was very clear to me from Everything Else i found in newspapers and in his correspondence and his writings that when he spoke of in chaining leviathan was what he really meant was to nj and modern democracy. To undermine again the power of organized citizens, to curtail regulation, to curtail transparency and ultimately, this is crucial because stunned to see this in our own state, to make changes in state and federal constitutions to lock in what this cause never been able to get through persuasion or the electoral process. The cannabis advocating constitutional regulation beginning in the 70s. He tried it in chile. Its coming to america. We can talk more about it in the q a. I would just sits there or i could read a few selections from the book that i honestly believe that what is at stake right now that my book is talking about is the fate of the American Democratic system. The kind of government that citizecitizen action can remembr understood of social movements, i teach patient social movements, the kind of government that citizen action is demanded at least since the populist movement of the 1890s. There was a time with all social movements seem to think they could be in silence. You could do whatever your movement here, Civil Rights Group here, in this world that are coming for every group that looks to government in order to achieve their vision of social justice, there need to six environment, all of those things. This is a unified challenge. Ill stop there again with the story of the book. Happy to say more in the q a but now want to give you a little sample of the narrative with selections from three moments that illustrate some of what i just shared. The first selection and the longest, the next one will be as long but the first selection is some an early chapter about the events in the fall of 1958 in virginia with the governor of virginia engaged in what is today around the country in these red controlled states being called preemption using the power of the state kevin to prevent localities from doing what their citizens otherwise would like to do. The governor applied these massive resistance laws passed in 1956 to take away the autonomy of local community and to force on the residence the will of a gerrymandered consider state legislature that in school that was about to desegregate in response to a federal court order should be shut down. So thats the context. Goes back to our phrase letting the chips fall where they may. James buchanan and nutter did not put together their proposed solution to the School Crisis until early 1959. When they did it was as if they are pulled down the shades on every window, counsel the subscription to all the newspapers and plug their peers to new set of voices in harry byrds virginia. The economist and allies had steadfastly maintain that the states fight was against the federal government, against coercion from outsiders, in the stand for liberty. True, they ignored the overt racism and turned a blind eye to the chronic violations of black citizens liberty and Constitutional Rights that led to the federal intervention. The voices of 1958 and early 1959 if i even their narrow and exclusionary framing of the conflict, because they came from white middleclass virginians, from parents in particular who are shocked at the actions of the state officials and determined to resist. Most were moderate republicans and democrats of the expanding cities and suburbs of northern virginia. They spoke powerfully enough over a sixmonth period to move buchanan and nutter to explain publicly what the vision of liberty would mean in practice on the most pressing matter of the day. The school system. In the summer of 1958, three different communities, the port city of norfolk, home to the u. S. Navy base, charlottesville, home to the university of virginia, and the text him milltown up front royal announced their intentions to admit a few black students to some previously white schools the following september. They removed to do so not because the white townspeople or their School Boards sadly converted to equal rights under the law. No doubt a few did. But most having been reared since infancy in the culture of jim crow did not. Still, many saw themselves as patriotic, lawabiding citizens, and so were unwilling to defy a court ruling, even on the matter of race. Federal courts had instructed their communities to desegregate without further delay, particularly schools that been subject to naacp lawsuit, and they plan to comply. These local plans triggered via fermentation of the 1956 state massive resistance legislation empowering the governor to close any white school the plan to admit any black students. His act would deny Public Education to some 13,000 white students, throughout the fall of 1958 in these communities from firstgraders to high school seniors. The reason was only whites is because no white student pursuing to enter black schools, so they were not subject to this federal coercion in the view of those who disagreed with it. In july 1998, the week after governor almond announced he would close the schools come september, a Virginia Country doctor, who before this time it a little to state politics announced that she would run for the senate seat held by harry byrd. Her name was doctor louise dr. Wensel minced no words in explaining why she was running. Because senator byrd massive Resistance Program is designed to close our schools, she said, hurting our virginia children more than any other group. That was the horse that nuclear, as a working mother of five, to run for office. But she didnt stop there. The problem was not just whether local communities should be allowed to decide to admit black children to formerly white schools. Virginias coming generation, black and white, needed more and better schooling. That was just the beginning of the changes she was campaigning for. I think i will kind of skin a little bit because i know its hot and you are kind of crowd and that i would just say a little bit more because i was just blown away by the story and its that this woman would to a death thinking nobody had ever written about her story or understood it. She was fearless in shaming byrd for presiding over an electoral system rate to keep most citizens on the ballot box. Keep in mind this is a high cold war for ugly people and were in virginia as well as russian should have a chance to vote for candidate who opposes a political machine that oppresses them. Whose liberty was a bird organization protecting . She noted in the u. S. Senate, senator byrd was among the most outspoken opponents of centralization in government. Yet his political machine she said has been gradual depriving our communities and cities of the rights now dictating the School Boards what they can and cannot do. Her Campaign Motto was virginias own, sic semper tyrannis, thats always a tyrant and was time for the states citizens to resist tyranny. I can want to read you more of that by think i could hold back the one thing i do want to tell you in a state in which unions are fighting for the life that you know we are the least unionized state in the south, our legislators talking about putting right to work in the state constitution so no future generation can change it and give workers the kind of rights that they enjoyed at midcentury, so there i think you need to know who encouraged dr. Wensel to run for office. It was the president of the virginia aflcio. She had written a letter to the editor of a newspaper protesting the school closure, and he called up the house that morning and came over and a financial over, came over, shook her hand and said, wed like you to run for the u. S. Senate. And they brought material. They gave her supporters. They did everything. So is actually the Virginia Labor Movement then backed by the protestant, mainline Protestant Church activist, league of women voters, that all supported a run but it was the Labor Movement who first came to her aid. I think thats extremely important for us to understand at a time when laborers rights had been so much under attack. Ill stop that story there. And get to the second set want to share with you. So the second selection ill share is from the moment in 1983 as James Buchanan come home from chalet and embolden either success, the cause had enjoyed their offered strategies to achieve what even president Ronald Reagan had drawn back from, radical changes to Social Security. If youve never read david stock wins book about this, read it. I couldnt believe it but he basically said what they first had to do in reagans first budget woul not be achieved in a democratic society, that they shouldve understood that, they shouldve gone back. Instead, and reagan itself to back because he didnt want to hurt people. He had liberal ideas. Stockman talked about how he is going to be engaged in mortal combat with old people, with senior, people, and his own voter base, and reagan to back and we ended up with huge deficit. But anyway. So the point im reading from is after reagan has decided not to push through the kind of changes that stockman, libertarian, was first seeking, and what happened after that. So i pick up here. These libertarians seem to have determine that what was needed to achieve their ends was to stop being honest with the public. Instead of advocating for their goals, they need to engage in a kind of crab walk even if required advancing misleading claims in order to take territory bit by bit in the manner that cumulatively yet quietly could begin to radically alter the power relations of american society. The program which i tested this new strategy was Social Security. Social security comments both James Buchanan and David Stockman had observed, was the linchpin of the american welfare state. The most popular new deal reform, its very success had made it a target for the far right since its creation in 1935. No doubt inspired by chalets conversion, Charles Koch Cato Institute turkey began to teach its staff how to crab walk. My term, not theirs. Cato had made the privatization of Social Security its top priority. Buchanan labeled the existing system of Social Security ponzi scheme, a word that might be familiar, a framing that as one critic pointed out implied that the program was fundamentally fraudulent, indeed, totally and fundamentally wrong. It was fundamentally wrong in the view of the libertarians, but with a few canons tutelage the cause learned that opposing it candidly like it used to make in his terms political suicide. Because the majority of voters wanted assistant to continue as it was. The professor ward, and i quote, there is no widespread support for basic structural reform among any Membership Group in the american polity. Among the old or the young, black, the brown for the white, the female the mail, the rich were the poor, the frost belt or the sun belt. The near universal popularity of Social Security meant that any attempt to fight it on philosophical grounds openly about opposition was doomed. Buchanan therefore devised and taught a more secure disk and sequential and, indeed, i would say devious and deceptive approach, but one that served this new crab walking cause well. Those who seek to undermine the existing structure must do two things. First, they must alter beneficiaries understand us also securities liability, because of that would make abandonment of the system look more attractive. There is a whole industry of nonprofits funded by rightwing foundations that have been doing this as im quite sure you are aware and is cheating the commercials. Step one would soften public support for the system by making it seem unreliable. Step two would apply a classic strategy of divide and conquer. Recipients could be split apart in this way. The first group here to find as all those already receiving Social Security benefits. The current recipients and those close to retirement should be reassured that their benefits would not be cut. This tactic buchanan referred to is paying off existing claims. The reason behind it is vintage public choice analysis, the broader school of thought of which the Virginia Schools was one speaker as the citizens both attended to any change in a system, these are the people who would fight the hardest to preserve it. Getting them out of the struggle to preserve this system would greatly enfeeble the remaining coalition. The second group you can coached consisted of high earners, the plan would be to suggest that they be taxed higher rates that others to get their benefits, thus stalling the image of Social Security of an Insurance Program in the minds of the wealthy by making it look more like the now unpopular means tested income transfer programs popularly understood as welfare. If that message were repeated enough, the wealthy would begin to believe others were not paying their fair share, this in turn would become less opposed to altering the program. The third group would consist of younger workers. Younger people needed to be constantly reminded that their payroll deductions were providing, and i quote, a tremendous welfare subsidy to the aged. I think if nothing else i have said conveys this, i think this tells us what were looking at is not classic conservatism by anyones definition. Classic conservatism does not fight effectively class struggle of young people against their elders and say that grandma is a rent seeker which is the kind language of this program uses. I do think theres one more thing to add. A few more things, to paragraphs. So this patchwork of reforms, the candid language, he put quotation marks around reform to make sure that the message was clear to those he was advising that reform was not really the in game. This package could tear at groups that have been united before in the support of Social Security. Better still, he noted, the member groups of the once unified coalition that protected Social Security might be induced by such changes to fight against each other. When that happens abroad failing that it upheld the system for half a century might fracture. Buchanan said projection left unanswered how to identify those who would benefit from end of Social Security and turned them into active allies of the cause. And for that to other people at Heritage Foundation contributed to this discussion with what they called a leninist strategy, or getting rid of Social Security. And they said the answer to build up that group that would help to push for Social Security privatization was clear. The financial sector. The right was not against people putting away for the retirement, to the contrary, they wanted people to save early and actively for their own retirement as part of the philosophy of personal responsibility. They just one pill savings taken out of the hands of the federal government and put into the hands of the capitalists as was done in chile and also they wanted to end employer contributions to Social Security as was done in chile. Ill stop that section there. The final section and the one i close on his deeply ironic, even to my reading and shakespearean, today you may have heard some of you can his former colleagues up in lines at the portrayal of his ideas and the cause they moved forward. It is an interesting fact. The koch Political Team and academic allies at George Mason University pushed buchanan aside when he called what they were doing at George Mason University exploitation. And when push came to shove, Top University administrators chose the man who became the universities biggest donor over their first nobel laureate, and they pushed buchanan to the side also. And some of those who are now complaining loudest about my book was the billio billionairer the friend and colleague into fancy swanky new quarters provided by charles koch while buchanan papers were left to rot in the building does begetting to get bold and was essentially untended. There were a few people who remained loyal, and one of them came to feel profound contempt for charles koch and his operation. I think this is very interesting because he was a libertarian. This is not like me an outsider talking about this. What im about to read you come from a person who is buchanans colleagues of you who ran the John Locke Foundation i believe is called the virginia. He was deeply involved in this cause by the couple and more disgusted after the turn of the new century at the way wealthy businessman and wealthy people were taking over what was supposed to have been a movement of ideas. So the conclusion opens with charles unheated whistleblowing and ill share o a file selectin of this and then we can go on to questions and discussion. It is a contradiction in terms to remain a selfgoverning intellectual and the part of a messianic movement. Messiahs dont entertain doubts. I suspect while we felt the change underway, if it didnt bother others about themselves, it bothered him about himself. We also know that once the code people settled in and then took over in this court at George Mason University those economics department, now Scalia School of law, it didnt need the whole university, just a good chunk of it. Anyway, after they settled in and took over George Mason University, rallies concerned into content. Then discussed until they came to this early despise a few operatives and academic enablers who are not as far as he was concerned occupying his campus. He called richie think is from economics colleague at george mason and now charles koch come by then i should say charles koch top political strategist, a thirdrate political hack and a man who is very appropriate named. [laughing] rowley said what others never dare to admit, i quote, far too many libertarians have been seduced by koch money into providing intellectual ammunition for an autocratic businessman. It had reached the point he came to believe by 2012 that there was no hope that any of those who participated in the freemarket think tanks would speak out. He was blunt about the reason why. He said, too many of them benefit financially from the pocket money doled out by charles and david koch. Did rowley include the canon as well in a suggestion of so many having been bought . Body buchanan no longer came to campus after 1998 after the fight when he was essential pushed to the side to teach strategy to new generation of operatives with the alacrity he once showed, nor did he play in other direct ongoing role that ive been able to trace in what have now become kochs movement, he continued to accept the honors and emoluments that kochs people mitchard is it his way. In his memoirs he went out of his way to say that, looking back over his lifetimes work, i have no regrets. Perhaps. But buchanan was far too smart not remember the idealistic young man who had once promised universal virginia president colegate darden that he would seek to defeat keynesian economics and liberal politics by winning the war of ideas against the other side, not by writing training manuals for subversion by stealth. Had he withdrawn after 1998 so that have to personally witness what is decades of work had rot, again we dont know. Rowley continue to respect buchanan but not so blindly, for he predicted as the twins of election approached that the libertarian cause they shared quote may well suffer, at least in principle, serious harm for having become the instrument of a tyrant. Watching out koch, do they get institute for what he called his crude plan to speed up the libertarian conquest of america by using the very governmental apparatus that libertarians have long criticized made rowley angry. He saw and i quote that koch had no scruples concerning the manipulation of scholarship. He wanted cato output to aid his caustic when if you libertarian Board Members and Staff Members raise questions, one said we support legalized constitution. Just because we support legalized constitution doesnt mean we want to be prostitutes. I think that appears later. Anyway, when if you members raise questions to replace them with his own people who now included the kind of social conservatives and Political Party figures who were once anathema to libertarians. In the end though, rowleys loyalty was to the cause. He was concerned about cato, not america and serving not about the fate of majority rule. Neither he nor any other insider ever went public with their concerns. Nor did anyone else sound the alarm for the rest of us about what kochs proxy army as one rowley reader calle call it, wag to the country. Thank you. [applause] [applause] yes. And now we have time for questions. Can you talk about the summer camps that were held at george mason to teach all this stuff . Yes. And again, the question is, about the summer camps that were held at george mason to teach all this to federal judges and others. And yes, at one point, when he gave the gift, charles koch said the problem had always been a shortage of talent. As part of this project, youll see this going around campuses around the country, koch and the Donor Network are establishing, donating heavily we have them in weight force faculty and students are trying to get transparency about theirs. Its an uphill battle. Western carolina university, the faculty and student were overruled i believe by the administration. Really funny sampling it. What did you scrape these Training Institutes. They are Training Institutes for high school students, for teachers, Training Institutes for faculty come from different places, and there are Training Institutes for federal judges. I did get into that. I give a hint of the legal store but you can become one of his colleagues, a colleague is a crucial entrepreneur in law economics and built george mason to law school around that, and he ran the summer camp, that at one point and i believe by the early 1990s had trained 2 twofifths of all the sitting federal judges in the united states. 4040 of all federal judges have been treated to a koch funded curriculum. Those efforts continue. It changed under obama because obama had a chance to put in a number of federal judges come so the numbers are not what they were but people, this is so serious. These people are dead set determined to transform our legal system and then in buchanans terms to lock it all in with these radical constitutional changes. Yes. What do you think it says about the class rule in this country and the socalled liberal opposition that there been such an abject failure in the face of all this . Why has all the far right wing ideas receive such power when you would think there were plenty of rich people with play money and intellectual ideas, the money to pay for intellectual ideas to back in opposition to this . I dont think any of us has really understood that, right . Hindsight is always 2020. Partly for democrats, theres lots of money in both parties now, especially with citizens united, bigmoney shaping everything. What we have is politician to become more accountable to donors than to their citizens. We just saw this play out with healthcare. Why was Republican Party in washington supporting a health bill that only Something Like 12 of the American People supported . Because they were answering, there being pushed by the Freedom Caucus funded by these donors and answering to the stone network, not to their own constituents. Thats buchanans ideas, change incentive, make it so they are afraid to be primaried as we call it now and so the answer to donors instead of their voters. On this larger question frankly i think weve all been remiss in part of that that way our culture. How many conversations have youll be in alachua people are talking politics and a safe will be hillary or elizabeth . We focus on personality in washington. We have to learn this lesson that its about the rules. Its about power and the democrats in washington were so focus on washington that they didnt notice, they were losing all of the states. This is a strategy that is in buchanans Virginia School of economy and a fourth by the koch Donor Network. They have trifactor control trifecta controller i think they might return to wake up at the national level. Im not sure but what i will say is people in places like North Carolina, even in kansas. The republicans broke ranks with the party instituted a tax cut because it relies schools are being destroyed. Their state was being destroyed by this ideology but it is going to make people want to see this turned around its going to be in, on all of us. Everybody, everybody has 1000 things to do but it will be incumbent upon the citizenry to get engaged and to make things happen. [applause] given the scope of what theyre doing, decades theyve been doing it, how do we combat this . I hear you. But i will say that the single most important thing [inaudible] im sorry. The question was given the scope of this and that its been decades in development at how elaborate as it is how do we combat this . And my preliminary answer is that the single most important thing about this book and about the story i tell here is that these guys are doing this because they understand people dont want what they want, and if they tell the truth about what they want, we will recoil and not let it happen. The most crucial thing we can do is inform ourselves when we see what this is, make them tell the truth. They say i want to reform Social Security, Safety Support the principle of social insurance . Challenge them so they have to get out of this anodyne language that obscures what youre doing, actually i made a list at one point of things that i think follow from this analysis. I think the main thing is to realize that is the source of tremendous strength, that they understand that if the majority knows whats going on in the majority sees what kind of society that would bring into being, people want to stop it. The task is to reach out to one another, to engage come to get involved and civic organizations, involved in whatever your world is, didnt fall into church, so many Different Networks people are plugged into. I think that can begin to make a difference. Frankly as if on health care. What better conditions to the have for pushing to this agenda, right . People did it because it didnt like what they were seeing and they really responded. So, yes. That are clearly parallels between what buchanan was doing at george mason and what friedman was doing at the university of chicago. Do you see any documentation of collaboration between those two schools . Its quite interesting. Began came out of chicago and in the first year as a talk about what he said at the university of virginia is being a colony of the university of chicago. I dont think you like that idea. In this hothouse crucible of what was happening in virginia and in later chapters i talk about how even the university was being democratize, the university of virginia, that was changing, the state with changing, the poll tax in did. Gerrymandering and all these Different Things happened that finally were making virginia inclusive and democratic for the first time. It was in that context, and that crucible that the canon developed a Distinctive School of political economy that was focused on the political process that keep up with these operating conclusions i just described. Milton friedman, not my favorite person or a economist, but in some ways what they were doing at University Chicago was a big difference, buchanan always smarted because he thought he didnt get adequate recognition by them. They were all these tensions, all part of the society which was promoting these ideas for the world, but i think chicago maintains a different, somewhat of a different feel. Although i dont know, huge business. Maybe its just because i havent dug deeply into the archives of it. Maybe i will leave that question and osama else will be here next year or two years writing a book about that. [inaudible] he asked, the question was, is foxnews part part of this network . I will say the archival information that they had was mainly from buchanan. I dont know of, i dont know about, the origins of fox but i will say john who was so big at fox was part of this literature network. When i was in buchanans office he had a letter from young woman who is talk about the Summer Program whodunit internship with stockstill and it become a convert to this cause. And also some of buchanans colleagues at george mason talked about when theyre watching this program about making use of insights from cognitive psychology and evolutionary biology launched so i do think some of the tribalism that we have seen jammed up in our society in the efforts to get, particularly right wing people in a constant state of fear to think someone, because they love, a woman does a woman a something she hates the religion and wants to destroy their civilization. I do think a lot of that is being consciously exploited, and i am a the direct mailing list of a number of these groups and i can tell you some of the stuff they sent out is just horrific. Theres a group called Judicial Watch that basically said kept saying are you aware that millions of illegal aliens are about to steal the election . This is the kind of stuff theyre sending out. Again i think one thing that citizens can do is Start Holding their elected officials accountable to the kind of stuff that is being used to get people to the polls. I will Say Something about this. I talked about how this cause is taking advantage of understanding that by changing the incentives they can get elected officials, particularly the republicans, and that no sentimental loyalty to the Republican Party. They have made that very clear. I have all kinds of sources that show that but it turned it into a delivery vehicle so even people who dont agree with them or do what they say or be primary and lose their position. But, frankly, while the people of courage in that party to say this is wrong . You know, i will not support that health care bill. I will not do those things because they are wrong. [applause] and i dont need this office and a major donor money. That will change things but i think people can put up that kind of voice and create that kind of pressure to change that. That would be one thing. Yes, sir. How does the buchanan trantwo axis differ from organizations like the Federalist Society has been chasing the worm of originalism or the evangelical colleges trying to make sure that we attack separation of church and state, or for that matter, alec . How does this organization differ from those, cooperate with those . You probably will not be suppressed im sorry. The question was how does this koch funded cause, network of organizations i describe related groups groups like the Federalist Society, alec, the evangelical school and so forth. And at this point i think you probably will not be surprised when i tell you that i found in the can is archives that charles koch was one of the early people supporting the Federalist Society and helped to vote its programs and that begin with the gaguests and early Federalist Society events. One thing i will say again about both men were extremely smart. Theres no question about their intelligence. There is a danger on the left about the smartest kid in the class. Are they down, are we smart . Like trump with his tweets. Thats the kiss of death. The worst thing people can do. It does make people look like snobs, like their condescends to other people. But also because it keeps us from understanding how incredibly shrewd some of these people are. So charles koch, a lot of people have said look, this got inherited his fathers business. Big deal. Well, what he got from his father he is increased over a thousand times in its value up to 5000 times. They got a shrewd. Three engineering degrees from mit. Very should think of. Always playing, always thinking six moves ahead. I think that something that people want to dispute this project and others want to start doing. Not just paying attention to a celebrity studded what but instead of thinking how do we save our institutions . If you want to save our Public Schools how do we think for steps beyond to get to the next thing . Im not sure if i quite addressed it, but all these organizations and begin a talk about when i started to get into this and to try to find out, i swear for a while i felt like sardines in homeland, if you seen that. All the stuff and im just losing it. Then i would dig into the stuff that it was just crazy how these same people straight up in the and so forth. Indicate people that were involved help us bring the financial crisis. Phil graham was working with this cause, was very committed public choice, economist in the senate when he was pushing for financial deregulation. His wife was in the center, all of these people were involved in pushing for opening up the financial industry for deregulation if allowing all of this stuff to happen, was there a moment of shame that the ideas didnt work out, no, not a moment of shame. Just a more aggressive push to take advantage of the crisis and dislocation of that financial collapse to move this agenda even harder. So thank you for that question. I think our time is up but i just want to say, wow, im just so thrill today see so many people here and i this can be turned around. [cheers and applause] thank you. Every book tv book tv offers nonfiction aho