Transcripts For CSPAN2 Capital News Today 20130306

Relief activities. We are proud of and believe we are wisely spending every penny of Hurricane Sandy relief fund has been appropriated. I will give the same amount of time to the Ranking Member. I would tell you when i drove over the nevada line up to lake tahoe a few weeks ago, i saw a brandnew sign that gave credit been put into the stimulants, and others the recovery act being put up two weeks ago, three weeks a day driving through the snow. Its amazing that the dollars being spent but every time theres a request for a cut theres no money and its overdue. This is one of the challenges we face if you dont do some portion that can be that commit cutaways recognized by the ig never program is essential come here telling us only texan creases of nearly double in the American People will celebrate deficit. Without i recognize the Ranking Member for seven minutes. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Mr. Scovell, you heard the response of mr. Porcari with regard to air Traffic Controllers. Are you aware of what he said theres a different situation than what it was 10 years ago . Do you have enough information to answer but i just asked you . Thank you, mr. Cummings. It is a different control situation that was 10 or more years ago, but its also a fact number of operations has decreased markedly from what it was 10 or more years ago. Mr. Cummings, where the project in my office at the request of congress to examine air Traffic Control product can be a mess with the chairmans ultimate question goes to you. The project is underway. I dont want to prejudge results, but will report into this committee when the review is done. So you think you agree with the chairman and i do want to put words in his mouth, just trying to remember what he said, that maybe the distribution of air Traffic Controllers is not the most efficient and effective way to use the . That is a possibility. We have examined faas air Traffic Controller workforce for a long time and weve offered in the past recommendations to the agency for how could analyze the composition and the distribution of its controller workforce because they found problems in the past. Mr. Miller, can you tell us the total amount of cut the department of education is now facing as a result of sequestration . The impact of our program, about 2. 5 billion. I understand the 722 million is enticed to title i. 600 million title i programs. He said as a sophies choice, i guess this is what im getting to. Year to say that these questions. This is what im trying to go to, mr. Scovell. Some people have the opinion that when these kinds are made, because they made to aim that they dont have to be made to. In other words, a fact somewhere some oral secret cut and not affect programs for kids like me when i was growing up in special ed. So im just wondering, tell me about that. This is something mandated or with . Our programs are focused on the most needy. In an environment where weve fallen behind the world, 16th in terms of college graduates. Where 25th and 17th by 15yearolds when you look at the direct Investment Education and how that impacts gdp and employment, the quality of education is clear that Investment Education is critical. We have no choice. My question is again going back, is there some way we do have sequestration under the circumstances that she could avoid the cut in these areas. I want to know because the implication is that the administration is trying to zero in on things that get the headlines or whatever. Im trying to figure out how struck situation is. Simply put the money for the programs. [inaudible] yes, sir it is time. I would agree sequestration in its acrosstheboard approach to coding is going to leave many things unfunded, since title i special ed and those monies are the folk of the departments money is, thats where youre going to see because. I think a better approach would be looking at reducing funding. The recommendations we make, the deputy secretary brought up the issue of 200 programs in the department of education. Not all of them are bigmoney programs, but why shouldnt i look at more thoroughly and holistically what programs might duplicate each other. Lets get to the point where we have duplication between the departments that focus on education. Why cant i look at that a government may cut their . In other words, go through those programs, the ones getting the most bang for the buck to reduce or eliminate those to free up money for the others. Is that right . Is that what youre trying to save quick yes. Their assembly play if we were to do these things quite out fiercely really sequestration. Right now i dont think theres leeway. We are all facing across the board cut. I am facing a 3 million in a somewhat small appropriation. I am going to be for allowing all of my employees for 10 to 11 days on myself on down at the sequestration can use to the end of the fiscal year. Ricotta rfid is no work, going to cut support for risk modeling work and weve told for Term Employees they need to leave at the end of the month. So we are facing greatly reduce travel, which is very much impacting your criminal investigator and auditor you have to travel to do your business. Im having to make choices in what cases reopened and went on as i see my time is up, thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Mchenry. I yield to mr. Jordan. Thank you for this hearing. Mr. Miller, i want to be clear at the chairman is questioning. You have not responded to the chairmans letter last week . The letter the 28th at notice upon my return on monday. Those wheels are turning, but i dont believe a formal response has been submitted. Tummy was sequestration was passed. Friday. When it passed requiring sequestration shtick affect. August 2nd, 2011, 19 months ago. It seems to me when you get a letter but sequestration you have 19 months to plan and get ready for it. If you check time, you should have been ready in december because this thursday january 1st. You have the response ready to get back to the chairman. You guys didnt start planning for this until the last couple weeks . We plan on sequester and thats quite consuming actually. Weve been planning since the beginning of the year. Why not before that . It past august 2nd, 2011. As i interpret it, it was both parties in the administration. Thought it would not be going into effect. A statement secretary made, the now famous statement means a lot more children look at the service they need in as many as 40,000 teachers could lose jobs. Teachers now get pink slips that they cant come back to fall. Do know where he was facing when he made the team and he was basing that statement on . The issue of the 40,000, a recognition of local funding. It does represent an estimated directly with the current tenant would be a had you guys given information sameness is going going to happen . The survey schools, military schools, did you serve it doesnt make is we concluded that being consistent. We have an understanding of the cost structure at the state and district and school level and understand the basis of the cost structure. How might this translate to impact, we say with allocation of funds that is this today suggests the department and portray to the American People as fact. Weve been very clear that he translated this is the impact it could have been that remains true today and there are examples in anticipation of sequestration. The scissors teachers now are getting pink slips are noticed they cant come back this fall. Is that true . The secretary spoke inaccurately to correct that statement. What is true is the impact of 40,000 jobs. With anything given to the secretary thing you can say this, or is this just taken place at the department . I cant speak to a briefing materials. With the Washington Post accurate make it four out of four pinocchios . Are they accurate or wrong . I would resume the Washington Post did what they thought was with their practices. There is an impact of sequestration on jobs. Its demonic mr. Porcari, mr. Lahood said others could experience up to 90 minutes during peak hours because we fear are controllers on. Mr. Meadows tells me last week in transportation and Infrastructure Committee dfa at the straighter it did under questioning the 90 minute delays and cities are not based on data or study. Is that true . Same question to mr. Miller. Do you have databases going to happen . I flew this week and it didnt happen to me. We know impacts your chicago would be a good example. By having less controllers on duty, chicago has two hours. But not in the north tower is there any study that indicates this is going to be the case . If so, with the faa administrator mifflin in the Transportation Infrastructure Committee last week when he said theres no data that this is the case. It is difficult to measure precisely until the cuts are in effect. We know have a Significant Impact in the primary impact will be on our busiest once again it was a gas. The secretary of education and transportation suggesting that the data or study to support these attacks are going to happen in the Washington Post saying he misled the American People 24 out of four pinocchios. Those are reasonable estimate of what we know now. Did you start planning like a good planner or later but do . Did you start planning the 2011 when the gophers past click we were well prepared. We started planning in the fall. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Miller, the ig reports or 2010, 90 of audits the issue since 2007 have not been resolved within six months. 53 or overdue by an average of almost three years come including question cost of 568 million. Due to the statute of limitations, it appears costs questioned by the ig and audits, the department wants the opportunity to recover 415 million of cost. Two years later in january 2012, 42 per numbers still unresolved. My question to you is is that acceptable performance by the department . We are in agreement that we need to improve our ability to resolve audits in a more timely way, including through completion of the corrective action plan. Its directly whether taken steps most recently with the formulation of a dedicated task force. The party had a 30 , 33 reduction should take a 20 fiscal year. You agree of us the opportunity to recover 415 million in costs. Probably stated with a look at the recovery that becomes total potential of which based on finding what the public interest, the amount when we attend the recovery is a fraction of the total potential costs. I would not want to leave an impression the 400 million figure was the amount of recovery that wouldve happened. That would be inaccurate. Inspector tighe, do you have any comments . I would agree we probably would not see any recovery 415 million. Part of our point is when you let the statute of limitations when you have no opportunity to do any thing. A lot of that money didnt involve School Districts and state and local entities who we know are virtually undetectable minute. On the other hand, part of the problem is not just the money. The fact when you dont resolve the audit all communities the opportunity to work with the states and other jurisdiction to put in internal controls to make sure they spend the money wisely. So you really lose a number of opportunities. Mr. Miller, how much money do you spend, what resources are expended in the suspension and department process in the department . Im not sure we have i dont have the specific allocation because that would be an allocation of individuals across oldschool functions. We can get the specific investment were making on the process. If you would get that to the committee, that would be helpful. Have any grantees or contractors been suspended or disbarred in the past three years quick 150 departments through 2010 and the number has increased sense. What kinds of offenses . We could give you a break down of those. Of any individuals then depart permanently . That i cant answer specifically. Would you provide that as well . Of course. I think the department has tried to make improvements in how its focus on departments and the nonprocurement area. As for his grantees can usually the grantees themselves or People Associated with grant that have been debarred based option on criminal investigative work. To see grantees themselves are debarred may overstate. The department doesnt do barrio entity. Well take individuals out of the entity. I think the Department Still faces challenges in making a suspension process effect. We did a report last year that highlighted some issues. Thank you. I yield back. With a gentlelady yelled . The 450 million, would it be fair to say if you have every one of those in a situation which are negotiating with the excess recipient that the future savings by not having mr. P. Would certainly be as great as 415 million further behavioral change revealed; in addition to recovery . Absolutely. We have not quantified the fact you can save money over the long haul but in internal controls into place. Thank you. I think youre the right line. I appreciate your yielding. Without we go to mr. Jordan, and returning stars recognize. I dont know about that. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Porcari, some have said mr. Lahood stier points are not backed up by Financial Data and may suggest that the faa to 500 elion and 200 million on supplies and travel. I know this is the faa, but do you think that is something they can focus on . We could not achieve savings that way and ill be glad to document why. Im a first find out what the sequestered means. Two thirds basically 74 of our department is exempt from the sequestered, which means the sequestration cut followed on a portion of the department, primarily the federal aviation commission. A 5 cut is the equivalent of a 9 cut my question is does the faa part of your budget spend 500 million a year those categories exist. This fitness categories is important. Let me ask another way. This buyer and i discovered this two weeks ago that we all remember the gsa to las vegas for this 600 per day per conference and if you set as a benchmark, 183 times agencies have exceeded that mark and conferences. I remember defense was 50 times and they had exceeded the benchmark. In the past year has the department of transportation helped conferences around the country . How many . Do you know fewer above or below the benchmark . For the 600 a day per conference . We stay within the per diem requirements. He said we could get that information. Mr. Jordan, which you yield . When he said per diem, but finished the individual get paid. Whos asking how much is spent. The scandal was not about per diem. Im referring to the per diem rate for hotels. How many conferences did you send employees to last year . Ill be happy to get you that. Ive been reviewing and approving conferences. As much as its been a news of the gsa in the hearing two weeks ago, 183 times youve used that number and you dont know that information . You dont omnicom as he went to . Would achieve the same as we think we can achieve. Would like to have that information the committee. Maybe the american taxpayer doesnt. Thats why we have these hearings. Mr. Scovell, do you know how many times they went on trips . Chairman issa requested that information. Fiscal year 2010 total cost 12,833,000. The number of conferences was 49. Were going to have 90 minute delays because the sequestered. Were going to have to furlough faa agents. The fact you know that information in the agency had dozens of the problem. If i may, the single largest faa Conference Part of the department is Safety Training for air Traffic Controllers. Im not saying some of them arent important. Let me move quickly if i can. Mr. Miller, do you know how many conferences you sent employers to last year . It was roughly theres no roughly to it. How many did you go to . Time, 49 . Below 49. Ms. Tighe coming to know how many it was . Cheat of the costs for travel conferences . Review the cause in earlier submissions to the senate, but i dont have that off the top of my head. To know how much the department of education and the comets as last year . About 10 million. The largest caiman , and employees to have . 4400. How many of the department of transportation . 55,000. Thats amazing. Instead of having the secretaries of the federal agencies scaring the American People, maybe cut back on conferences and achieve savings for taxpayers and do the way youre supposed to. But that i yield back. We now recognize the gentleman from northern virginia, mr. Connolly. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Gosh, if the American People want to wonder why its hard to Reach Agreement sequestration, perhaps that last run questioning clears that up. Mr. Trained for, i went to give you an opportunity without badgering you to answer the question fully in terms of air Traffic Controller training because there seems to be confusion between conferences and training. Which you care to explain what you were trying to get at before being interrupted . What the gentleman yield for a second . Id like to ask the clock be stopped. What i was referring to with air Traffic Controllers is although some of the duties are technically listed in the conference, there is a safety agenda or they are basically getting updated education and safety at dignities and other vital parts of their role. We think thats a very important part of what they do. We also think its managements responsibilities, minus chief operating officer should make sure they do that responsibly and as costeffectively as possible. For the last year and a half weve been carefully reviewing conferences where, when, how many people going with the agenda is. Terran one and thank you for the courtesy. To followup on that, what train are we talking about . Is this just how to party, how to have a good time in las vegas . This is serious Safety Training. For example a number of new technologies deployed. We share safety data. There are daylong at trinity is further having various safety briefing and updates and participation. Or trying to build us a safety culture. If youre familiar with management systems, it starts with a holistic approach to safety. The reason we have the safest air Traffic Control system and Aviation System in the world is because we have the best trained safety experts, putting air Traffic Controllers. To be sure we understand, training us up for a lifetime. One has to be refreshed with changes in technology he coming changes and new information, changes in technique. For example, were getting ready i hope to invest in the new jenn air Traffic Control system, which loves the leaks and safety over the panic. There requires training and understanding the technology involved. Would that be a fair statement . It is a fair statement. Its evolving very rapidly there was the previous question about the number of air Traffic Controllers today is previous. The concentration of commercial activities different than 10 years ago. The other part is we bring the air Traffic Control community and the design and implementation of her nexgen system. Some of the early steps we had and route modernization for because in my opinion we developed a system with an integrated object approach did not have controllers as part of the process. It is the very seventh of the process to do that. Presumably festers a public purpose. Safety is our number one priority. Do you take any issue with what mr. Beccaria has just said . On the basis of our available data it appears to be accurate. If i could return to one of your earlier questions and i do want to make sure the record of this Committee Hearing is accurate because they certainly dont want to be in a position to have misled the committee at all. When i spoke of the departments earlier conference expenses for fist year 2010, i also hope to bring to the committees attention the department reported to this committee for fiscal year 2011 having spent 3. 4 million on 23 conferences, for fiscal year 2012, 660,000 for 11 comments this. So whatever 2010 occurs to be an initially high number its come down since then. These are not audited figures that have been supplied by the department to the committee. Im sure the committee appreciates that. Before my time is out and i thank the chair for his gracious allowing us to finish your answer from earlier. Youre accused of scaring the public. Or theyll be furloughs including controllers and while that affect patterns and delays at airports . Warbler be furloughs of the cpb agents, all of which could lead to delays at airports . There will be furloughs among the 47,000 staff including air Traffic Controllers because we cant impact safety, we have to reduce volumes that can be processed at the most busy times. We know that well have a Significant Impact on reliability and on time performance. Thank you, mr. Chairman. We now go to the gentleman from utah, mr. Chaffetz. Can you help me understand the formula as to how many days are going to be on furlough . Hominy furlough days and how did you come up with the number . Furs, the process of notifying employees but will be subject to a maximum of one furlough per two week pay period to the end of the fiscal year. In other words, up to 11. We have arrived at the pictures looking not all of their available savings, including what we can do with contracts. Of the 2. 7 billion, how many of the savings are not able oriented savings . What are you going to cut that is not payroll . We are cutting back in contracts within the federal Aviation Industry should become one of the largest of the contract tower program. Are looking for value, the dollar amount. If you save 2. 7, how much is payroll at how much her mother with the federal Aviation Industry should number from which overall is 600 million, we are going to has informationtechnology savings for fy 23rd team of about 86 million. With 30 reduction in travel costs or that really looking at every contract for the federal aviation frustration. I appreciate he said he started this in the fall, so here we are in arch. Given the floor, months, how much is going to come out of payroll . We believe that about im sorry. I will get you that number because its a moving target as we get further in the fiscal year, we originally thought there would be far more than 11 furloughs. We dont know the dollar amount. Maybe 11 days over the course of the year. How did you come up with 90 minute delays . The delay number comes from a web anything can happen. They got it bad weather day in new york or San Francisco or chicago and those types of delays you typically from other dignity, we think youll see because because of further committee. I use the example of chicago ohare at the airfield requires two towers with one of operation because of furloughs, we take one of the runway set of operation. Thats how we try to measure the pact. The other thing i would mention is the number for the impacted hub cities with and can be fairly significant and when any are impacted a challenge i have is when we see significant or big, it doesnt sound like much of a plan in specificity. 600 million. I would love to know the breakdown between the payroll cost versus the others. He talked about one a furlough for every two weeks of work. Is that for the 47 dozen employees at the faa . Yes, the 47,000 employees subject to it. How many of those 47,000 employees are actually going to be furlough . The vast majority of the 47,000 employees. The employees that were for the mandatory contract spending areas like the Airport Improvement Program are not subject. Everything but aa he is subject to furlough. Mr. Chairman, what i hope you could give me, mr. Porcari, is how long would it take you to give a specificity and questions are just answered . Your thoughts of things to prepare for, but if you have a plan, would like to see it. Any good specificity. Could you give that to me was a fair amount of time . We have some preliminary numbers now. We know they will keep shifting and ill be happy to provide those by close of business today. Thank you. Appreciate it. Would you also include to the extent you can come any steps that could have anticipated that the end of the fiscal year because if you, for example, restrained hiring, you could have abated some of the starting dinner. Id like to know to the extent that was planned or done because i know submitting them for an part of the movie numbers things not spent that it anticipated. We have been in a hiring freeze at the faa for some time. Of that to make sure all of that is in the record. If i could add to that list two quick things. The amount of bonuses given up this year and how much money you spend in iraq and afghanistan because theyre 17 agencies spending money in afghanistan and iraq. If theres any dollars associated with that. We have not awarded bonuses this year. We now put the gentlelady from illinois, ms. Duckworth. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Porcari, given information on the air Traffic Control tire every year . Yes we do, man. You could tell me how many would not be landing on the run way based on past minutes at the airport . Yes, we can. Can you tell me how many air Traffic Control we can get that as well. Thank you. Can you tell me how much capacity could be absorbed by the remaining air Traffic Control tower as it stands . Will be happy to. Again from the same principles apply to numerous other airports as well. You be able to tell me how many land on the north runway to shut down. You know how many can be picked up by the other control tower, how many would not be handled in a timely basis, correct . Yes, we do. What should point out is important because part of the process for delays goes to historical patterns, whether its for weather or any other throughput delays. Wonderful, thank you. As someone whos phone my adult life as a professional pilot come a thank you the training i is a dod pilot received at the safety conferences i attended. It may be a far better and safer dod pilot analogy in the general aviation pilot, thank you for keeping me safe and ill be signing up for one of those training conferences on how better to speak with air Traffic Controllers in an air Traffic Control environment. I look forward to attending that coming out. My question is towards mr. Miller. Two weeks ago at a meeting meeting with the superintendent of schools have been planning what would happen if the funding were cut for title i and sola specialeducation anime. They know exactly how many people they would have to layoff, but it was going to cost them. Do you know how much money this country spends on subsidies to the oil and gas industry every year . Its 4 billion. Can you tell me what the cutting title i Education Funding were cut from the department of education . 750 million. How about the cutting of special Education Funding . Another 600 million. Instead of slashing Education Funding, democrats offered a balanced alternative that wouldve made sensible cuts in our nations spend aim to subsidize the oil and Gas Industries that have had record profits come other Republican House leaders have refused to allow a vote. If we could cut spending on oil and gas subsidies, we would save 4 billion. Im concerned, mr. Miller, that by superintendence told me that because Service Requirement to provide Services First units of special needs and also specialEducation Funding, what would happen with the title i found to his cut such as remedial reading tutors is cut, they would provide that, which means they would cut services to the mainstream student. Can you speak about what this would do in School Districts to have a shift pressure from students with special needs to mainstream students about this this would do if the scouts were to go through . Is a requirement for students of special needs that they need to provide an appropriate education. As a federal resources are compromised, they need to ensure they are still delivering against that standard and that puts a strain on resources. It is also at a time with any districts like yours are investing and not just the Basics Services for those children, but investing in new instructional tech elegies will be more effective accelerated learning and dealing with . Mentioned the student who dont speak english as they put a new data systems and prepare for Higher Standards internationally benchmark. So its not only the loss of resources, but the leadership spent to do budget manipulations is taking precious time permitting reforms. Its compromising the ability to the Education System. Could you tell me if you would be keeping data on what the sequestration cuts will do to Educational Programs across the country . Some is based on historic trends and theres been discussion of the lack of data. When you keep data over sequestration on what it does to funding education and what gets implemented across the nation . Will continue to capture the data currently allowable. Restrictions in terms of data we can capture subject to Statutory Authority that regulatory authorities. Consistent with that, we will continue to understand the adverse impact sequestration for you thank you, mr. Miller. Amount of time, mr. Chairman. Thank you, not in chairman and thank you for the panel for being here. I know you are taking some heat today. Probably because of lack of some leadership at the top and some inaccurate, incomplete statements that have been made. Mr. Miller, let me ask you a question. There were statements made earlier by one of our Committee Members that we are dangerously close to being third world country status educationally. I am not sure of the accuracy of that. But improper payments in the department of education, poker programs specifically that exceeded the lmb threshold of 750 million per year seem to be a problem. In fact in 2010, improper payments exceeded 1 billion. Mr. Miller, i ask you what steps has the department taken to reduce improper pal payments . First of all, what i would like to highlight is the rate of improper has dropped significantly over the last im glad for the. I guess im asking, what are you doing to stop it . What steps have been taken . I think its important the rate is important because it speaks to the impact weve taken. The member programs has grown dramatically. We take a number of steps that are financially. Susan schools to better ensure we have the right studeman with the right amount of one subject to the constraints we have. We work with ig to better understand where there is potential risk of inappropriate at yours. We specifically with the vehicle by which students apply for qualify for aid work with the irs to put in Income Verification and minimize the risk where so few using the irs tool . I would not characterize so few are using the irs tool. Thats one of the things were trying to continue to promote. Go on. So those are the actions for taking to reduce the rate of improper payment. Any other actions are contemplating taking . The rate may be going down, but weve gone up in dollars. The most recent dollars was over 1 billion. I think that is one reason by no which is why i think the departments actions and the income match are going tone evident belie be limited in helping proper payment. The problem is just let me speak a minute about the irs drt, which deputy secretary miller taunted. The problem there is we dont think anyone who wants to defraud the State Government going to pick the irs data retrieval system. What is the department doing to manage the students or applicants, shall we say, some of whom might not really be students who arent otherwise chosen by verification of schools of the information their application information in what is the department doing to fix that the problem . What are they doing . What have you found . We havent found they are doing anything. I would also like to highlight that we do have a problem with how the error rate is being calculated to begin with. We recognize it has gone down. I think it shows there has been some modest success in the irs i dont know drt match. I think that the way the error rate is calculated is really based on a statistical study with the irs based on income. Theres also fraudrelated to a number of dependents, and a number of other issues like that that can happen. When we talk about the other issues related to 750 million to the special Needs Program and 6650 million and over a billion dollars of fraud wasted revenue going education. I think we have a problem. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you mr. Wall berg. I yield to the gentleman from pennsylvania, mr. Cartwright. Thank you, madam chairman. I would like to emphasize how much i value the work of our Inspector General community. Your work is critical for everybody who, like me, wants our government and work better and be more efficient. Thank you for your work in addition to being here today. I want to invite you to answer these questions. The sequester is arbitrary across the board cuts, they also do apply to the offices of the inspectors general. Am i correct in that . That is correct, sir. All right. And so the question is, how are your offices impacted when your budgets are cut . Sir, if i may. We heard from the other witnesses about how sequestration is affecting their office. It will impact our office. My fear because, for instance, as he spoke of the fa ark being a personnel heavy and therefore salary expensed heavy account subject to sequestration. My office is personnel heavy. 75 of my overall budget goes to personnel salary and expenses. If we were going get hit. That is where it was going to happen. For me, if im to accomplish my mission, i have to have my staff on deck. My focus from very early on was to minimize the impact on my staff, keep them at work. Sure may be happy because im getting a paycheck. Im happy because im getting mission. What weve been doing sin late 2011 has been to focus on eliminating, reducing, all expenses not staffrelated. Minimize those to the greatest extent possible. And then to see how we can write ride out of sequestration. My office is some degree of expert funding for the recovery act and Hurricane Sandy relief. That provided some flexibility. We could not get to the position where we are today, which is that we will not need furlough any of our staff or not for the Cost Reduction more thans we had in place for a long time. We had a hiring freeze in place since august 2011. Were reduced staff, released rented space. We have not paid any do bough us ins. We have sought to cut every single expense we could. Let me jump in. There according to data provided to the committee, at the end of february, 2013, your office had about 10 fewer full time equivalent that you had in fiscal year 2010. Is that correct . That is true. We are, in fact, at the lowest strength level in the history of our office since the Inspector General act 1978. What impact has that reduction had on your work . Impact . Data point, whether its a completely imperfect measure. I will acknowledge this. In 2004, fdie was responsible for covering 137 million in d. O. T. Budgetary resources. They are now responsible for covering is the 192 million with he an example. Last year in our criminal investigation side, e i regret to say we had to take a pass on information that was provided to us to see whether we believed we needed to dedicate an investigatory resource, a staff person to participate with other agencies in investigating that offense. Bedidnt have the personnel, and we decided that the expenses associated with participating in that investigation would be too great to justify it. We have also taken steps internally to increase the degree of scrutiny that we will need to affly every single request whether from department or congress for audit support. I want to jump in there. Mrs. Tying your staffer expressed concern about reduction and fte level in your office. With respect to audit, what impact does it have on your ability to conduct audit and investigations . Well, certainly will have an impact, as id mentioned earlier. 70 of our budget is salary and benefit. Next highest increment of funding are the common support we pay to the department for it and other costs that i cant control. We have the Financial Statement contract. After that i get, you know, travel, training, and smaller contracts. We are canceling or will cancel those contracts, which support or our work and d. A. Risk modeling. We will be furloughing our employees from me on down to about 11 dais. Ten to 11 dais. Will have a real impact on the work and the audit and investigative work. We are already turning down cases. We have shifting priority. We are telling our criminal investigators in the field they can only open the highest priority things and they better, you know, watch whey what they have done. Our audit work we put on the audit plan for this years, for example a frojt look at the project to the race to the top money, which is one of the big dollar marquee initiative of the administration, i dont know if we have the travel to go out there. Thank you. Thank you mr. Cartwright. Next is the gentleman from tennessee. Thank you, mrs. Chairman. Thank you for being here today. We have had a lot of discussions today about sequester and we talked about where we need to cut spending and how difficult this is going to be. Its been kind of contentious and even maybe it seems like people got an little defensive. Let me ask the panel, do you agree looking at the big picture and our government and deficit. Do you believe we have a spending and deficit program in our country . Mr. Miller, we start with you. Based on my reading of the press, i believe that theres a consensus we need both address the deficit to preserve longterm health of the country. Okay. Did that with sequester. We cut 85 billion and had another tax increase and raised 60 billion in taxes. We have taken a balanced approach. Is that in line with what you think we need to be doing based on the 17 trillion in debt . To be clear, my area of focus is the department of education. What i think the right fiscal policy is administration view, is that we need a balanced approach. Right. And taxpayers our committee is here to make sure we are sending taxpayer money properly. In a taxpayer not as an ig. I say that certainly a balanced approach makes sense. I do think i cant help but thit sitting as an ig there are Government Spending that ought to be spending that can be cut, programs run more wisely. I know, that the entitlement programs are a pot of money that ought to be looked at in some fashion. I see it as a few years off myself from receiving some of those. And taxes im no expert on tax policy, but nothing should be off the table, in my opinion. We have raised taxes. Do you want to raise more taxes . I husband sometimes i feel its the price i pay. Yes or no. You think we have a debt and spending problem . As a citizens and taxpayer i think a blantsed approach is the right way to go. I want to stay in my lane and go with policy decisions. All right. I say that, again, its easier to cut other peoples spending their own. You are passionate about your department and so on and so forth. In education, i guess im disappointed to hear him say were taking a hatchet to education. You truly believe theres no waste in education . We had the department of education now for three decades. A trillion dollars put in there and reading scores are certainly flat. Theres pell grants gone from 12 million to 43 billion. We are not really seeing an return on the investment. We had, as i think representative joggerson, we had nineteen months to prepare for this is. Is there nothing in the department of education you want to cut first instead say of say we take a hatchet to head start and special education programs. It sounds like scare tactic, something i hear from the white house. Is there not a better approach in prioritizing . Ic we have. What you have seen is the proposal with the support of Congress Eliminate 49 programs 1. 2 billion which has been. Come here and say. Title i an an environment where we are raising the standards because not enough states have competitive standards. We are putting more of a challenge on the educators to do more, better, faster. To disinvest education is only to going to threaten the longterm growth. We know that sequestration taking the draconian cut. You realize the Super Committee had equal number of each at the table. Its a failure of both sides of the aisle. We have to make cuts. We better get used to them. Its one tenth of our deficit spending. I would suggest its a learning experience today that were going to see more cuts. And maybe we need to prepare as we move on. You were talking about the 47,000 air Traffic Controllers and we have to furlough them. We have to take maybe up to eleven days out of the year. I know, theres increases in salary 47 ,000. I dont know what the annual salary is. Can there be a taxpayer instead of delayed flights because nobody wants to give up anything. They want to take more. I think the problem we have in this country and this government right now is access spending. We see it. We know sequestration was a responsible thing to do in the sense we have finally cut spending. Instead of us feeling good we are doing the right thing after admitting we have a spending problem. President should be saying thank you for making a shared sacrifice. We have taken a first step in doing the right thing. We shouldnt be sitting here whining and planing about with a we have to do. We more to do. I know, my time is expired. Theres a question there. Do you want to answer it relative to the contract and so on for the frowflers . Yes. First, i would point out through sequestration, our employees are taking pay cut of up to 10 for the remain of the fiscal year. We worked very hard over the last couple of years to have a good working relationship, and appropriate collective bargaining relationship with our air Traffic Controllers. We have a, i think, 18 in term of the working relationship that shows up in how we implement things like nextgen with our work force. I think run the risk of undoing that and unralphing that. Ill take a liberty for a second to make sure i get the answer to the last question. Within the context structure, you can have a reduction in force, you can have furlough, as i understand correctly, simply reducing atful pay per hour is not within even with sequestration is not contractually allowed. Thats my understanding. We have started i should point out ninety days ago the collective tbar bargaining process with the air Traffic Controllers for the furlough. I want to make sure we understand the government can or cant do. We have suggestions what we would like you to be able to do. I only want to stick to the one you do. With that we go the gentleman. Clay. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for the hearing. For the record, let me say to my state to my friend from the tennessee, the American People know exactly what is going on here in this congress. Which is nothing. We shirked our responsibility with the Super Committee. We shirked our responsibility with simpsonbowles. They dont like it. You can if you want to. But the American People are smarter than that. They know that we arent doing a thing. Let me direct my question to mr. Miller. At this time. You know in 1994, there were only seven states with Charter Schools. School laws and sixty operational Charter Schools. Today there are more than 5,000 Charter Schools in forty states. And d. C. The rapid growth of Charter Schools presents an opportunity to help reform our Education System by presenting innovative practicing that can be incorporated in to traditional public school. This growth also presents risk and requires rigorous oversight. Deputy secretary miller, one of the concerns iched identified in the Inspector Generals letter to the committee is how effectively pardon me, is overseeing an monitor charting school grant. There are numerous report of fraud. Do you agree with the concern that there needs to be increased accountability for Charter School funds once they reach the entity running the Charter School . Subsequently. Yes. We believe that from a policy stand point, the growth in Charter School and posh they offer for being able to develop innovative reform are good. We think oftentimes so you a proliferation in different oversight and authorization model. At the state level that make the subsequent oversight kind of more complicated. Our direct interaction generally speaking is with the state entity and the authorizing entity responsible for the if fiduciary duty. Our work is with the state versus with the school. I think we have concern that the state need to do a better job in terms of exercising that oversight. Yeah. And how does the department create more transparency and how Charter Schools use taxpayer funds . , i mean, do you look at graduation rates, test scores, reading levels and math . Relative to direct recipient of tight i one. Governorring schools and again we work in partnership with the respectfully have to defer cases to where the states govern framework with respect to the Charter Schools. We send them title i money. We have responsibility. We provide oversight for the title i. Im a strong supporter of high performing Charter Schools. Im troubled by the risk of prioritization of Public Schools under the charter operation. More prevalent with for profit organizations or nonprofit . We havent found a difference between profit and for profit. We have found problems with charter management organizations. Were actually getting ready to commence auto work in the area also. Because while we had a number of investigations involving the entities and Charter Schools in particular, we want to get a good look at what it might mean. I agree with you. There are some problems. And so it could be a we may be able to find savings in these funds for some of the organizations . We had a number of investigative cases already. Probably since the last few years we opened 56 Charter School informations. We had recovery of about 10 million. The deputy secretary was correct when he said that part of the problem is that there are a number of authorizers in every state and they vary. And the level of oversight varies wildly among states. I think that is lies where some of the problems are. I think the gentleman has a good line of questioning. We go florida. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Secretary, in the recent legislation, Congress Passed the transportation reauthorization. We mandated the consolidation or elimination of some fifty department of transportation programs. Can you tell me how many positions have been eliminated and what taxpayer dollars question expect from the consolidation or elimination in program . Its a good question. First, were in the process of the consolidation right now. As you know, there are specific map 21 requirements for doing so. Can you give us an estimate. Is it 100 positions . 500 positions . Will it save a million, 10 million . Although the programs have been consolidated. The need for oversight implementation of the fund has not gone away. We will be redeploying the personnel. How many positions do you expect to eliminate . We are currently selective hiring freezes. Nobody . I did not say that. I said selective hearing freezes were trying to. And the other thing i hear from outside talking to the dot. People are trying to justify the continued existence in congress set a mandate tout consolidate or eliminate some fifty programs. But people in the department of transportation are still making excuses to continue the red tape and paper work. Before i became chairman of aviation in 2001. There was a study, maybe you remember about the operation of contract tower they said they cost less and also they were i have Better Safety operations. Well, after i became chairman, they asked me the air Traffic Controllers said this is a skewed study. It isnt right. They didnt ask the right questions. Give me the questions, well ask. We did another study. The study came out and said that every contract tower we save a Million Dollars and they operate and they also carefully monitor the safety records. What is the afroamerican cut it to objective we have is to 13 4 million is that what were spending in we want to minimize the convenience for the maximum number . How be i think is the cut. The criteria up to 248 hours. Both faa operated and contract powers in the universe. Each contract tower operates the number i have is that the million and a half per contract tower. We would, you know, and we had a list from way back when the Clinton Administration save money and name safer . Are you familiar with that report . Am i. Youre generally correct sir. Thank you. Thats all we need to say. We wont get to the gentleman. At least a little bit further than general correct. It you dont mind. Real quickly. Okay. How much in the rail area are we cutting . Im sorry in the rail area Passenger Rail . On the Passenger Rail side, there are actually its about a 10 million cut. We are cutting back on. We talked about some things with the conferences, et. Cetera. Now, you know, we lost the increases in loss and food service on amtrak have gone from 81 to 85 million in the last fiscal cycle. We can eliminate food service. You think anybody would starve between here and new york . We did a little analysis on the transportation committee. Every hamburger underwritten almost 7. We can stop that loss couldnt we 85 million. Wouldnt that area we can look at instead of the other essentials Safety Services . Would you consider that . Again the amtrak cuts about 70 million. Be happy. Just by eliminating food service and the loss would save us 85 million last year. Let me close with i. T. Hes the former chairman. When i came to Congress Said the Clinger Cohen act required, again, all of the agencies came up with the Enterprise Architecture. We have 3 billion in annual expenditure for i. T. In the department and 400 information systems. Some due politictive. Some archaic, some obsolete and d. O. T. Doesnt have and i understand something is coming in may. Yes. The plan . Okay. We are waiting with bsh bated breath. For the rest of your answer. Thank you chairman issa. Quickly mr. Micah. I couldnt show my face at my office if i let it go by. It was an oig study. We have done two. They are less expensive than faa operated towers. They are drn faa towers and general accepted with approval by the user computer. I apologize. I meant i. G. Thank you. I thought he might. With that. We go to the gentleman from massachusetts, mr. Tar tear any. Your office did a study i think over three years they found there was 187 million from federal student aid funds involved in student fraud rate. I commend you. Thats a good study. In reality its less than onehalf or 1 what we spend on federal aid. Yes. What i fight for the oversight for National Security is minuscule on the basis. Its important. Nonetheless, if you look at what private institutions in the Higher Education field or whatever, i guess statistics here. 90 percent of revenue come from taxpayers. Thats correct and [inaudible] and federal Financial Aid, student loans, g. I. Bill funds, department of too wees assistance. They have 10 of the student enrollment. They take up about 25 of Financial Aid dollars we spend. The Health Education labor pension reported 2009, 2010 we they got 32 billion. Thats a lot. We had problems with overpricing tuition and predatory recruiting practice. Things of that nature. Are you looked at them. Where we have seen the greater risk its the low cost institutions. Because which is primarily Community Colleges. There are for profit schools, for example, the university of phoenix that operates a Community College component called which is a little bit lower cost which seems in a number of problem with fraud ring. Its the lower cost institutions primarily, not exclusively. Can you explain why it is. We have so many more dollars in the programs going to one set of institutions. And less going to the others. What is. Its not really a function of dollars. I agree with you on your statistic, but the problem with fraud rings is what, you know, its about what comes back to the socalled student. So when you sign up online. Online, you know, you have invisibility to your institution. You can so they sign up for classes, they apply for student aid, they then the Community College, say, for example, will take back from the title iv funding they receive a pell grant of 5,000. Because im going put zero income on my application. Well, what happens is the Community College will take 600 for a semester of classes. Will remit the rest for room and board and books and other expenses related to education. The problem we see for education is why are we funding room and board in those kinds of circumstances . All of that brick and mortar schools, you know, where you go on campus. You live there and you need to pay room and board. You do not necessarily need to do this in distance education. Theres restriction on the old respondent school. Remember those. You dont get room and board for those. The post 9 11 g. I. Bill done by the department of defense eliminates significantly living expenses. So that gives you money that goes back to the bad guys. So all they need do is get a bunch of friends or inmates in prison institutions to apply for student aid then they kick back some of that money to the ring leaders. That raises a good question. What are we doing about that. Generally the issue of how do we address the fraud rings . Were finding is that in large agreement working with the ig and following on the the recommendation to take action. They break down theres system changes question make. Like what . Statistical models that on the front end through the application of fafsa which is about 60 go through it. You can put flags in. If theres a pattern that looks like suspicious behavior. You can basically require for personal identification to go on with the application process, some require statutory changes. Some that require the statutory changes if you change the eligibility requirement. That requires actually congress to act. Are you making the recommendations to congress. Yes. We will work with congress and pursue what we think is the right approach. In the mid theres regulatory changes. We are going negotiated rulemaking. Could you provide to the committee the recommendations you made for statutory changes and the recommendation you making for rule changes . Yes. There will be a negotiated rulemaking. We are starting with hearings. The process that goes to hearings. Can you provide give us an update on what request you making for rule changes and what you recommend to congress. Of course. I want to be clear, part of the hearing in the regulatory process not fact, we have to honor the process. We cannot have a prescribed prescription even before we start the negotiated rulemaking process. Its meant to be informed by the public. The agenda gets said we are. So you already have some idea what you think ought to be changed in the law . You can give me that . We have an understanding of the issue. The question is how do we engage. You have come to no conclusion . No. That would be premature. We understand theres a problem and different ways to address the problem. Coming up with a legislative solution. We not at the point. Can you help us . Well, thing the primary statutory change we recommended was the change to the cost of attendance. I think there has been some Modest Movement in the senate through the appropriations bill for this year that would look at pell grants, but i would urge Congress Look at it as a total package of not just pell but also the loans that country get. It possibly just looking at pell could lead to a somewhat perverse situation where Financial Aid administrator would do two calculation for cost of attendance. One for pell and one for loans. And a student who is disadvantaged or otherwise might get pell might end up borrowing more. We want to avoid that. But i dont know that the department has put in concrete fashion any kind of proposal to change the cost of attendance. Okay. And if youll summarize. Thank you. Do so you have any written report with respect to in . We did do a written report on the fraud ring i talked about. Okay. Ill make the recommendation. Yes. We do. I would like to thank the gentleman i might remind all of us we response 0 or sod dat act which pass the. It would have changed recipient reporting. Woulded have changed a lot of the data bases in which the investigations go. Im not sure you can use, mr. Miller, the recovery act. Has been extended by the committees pushing and acting. I might suggest some of what youre trying to find may still be able to use that asset that former ig set up to do modeling of what could be done on a broader basis. We could encourage that. If you need support we would provide it. Now to the gentleman of texas. In high school i was a dj. I would get sick of a song is about the time people would know what the song is and start to like it. Im getting that same feeling with a lot of talk about sequestration. American people busy raising their families and working. Are really catching on. To me, i think theyre saying this is looking a lot like a manufactured crisis with people screaming that the sky is falling. If i were out if i personal budget being sequestered and i were in your place testifying before the committee. I might not choose not to pay my mortgage and say, oh my god, because of sequestration, my children are going to be homeless. I could choose not to eat out as often and say, my children are going go hungry. Heaven forbid we look for a fox of noodles in the pantry. My kids would probably refer mac and cheese compared to some of the places i go. Elf its a lot of postering. I want to ask the two secretaries. Cut 2 from your budget. Do whatever. Minimize the effect of 2 or 3 . Minimize the effect on safety. Minimize laying employees off, you know, you have Carte Blanche could you it . Well start with mr. Miller. Money for kids on indian reservations. What child is more or less employee. Its not 3 in waste, fraud, and abuse. Maybe we dont need. 99 is program you couldnt cut if i asked you to. Could you fund cuts not adversely Impact Education and students struggle right now . The least advantaged and struggling to participate in the Global Economy because they dont have the skills. I would say no. Making the cuts is going to have an adverse impact. All right. I just cant believe theres not 3 there. What about in transportation . Yeah. Thank you for asking. Again, what the sequester is in a part of fiscal year because three quarter of the department is exempt from it is the equivalent. If i Carte Blanche could do you if . Of course we can do it. Its a question of what the impact are. Thats the process were going through right now. I point out the easy stuff has been done since 2008 for example within the federal aviation administration. We cut 510 million out of the of the cost basis by reducing travel by 20 30 i. T. Savings 36 million. 100 million. Came up with a nice laundry list of things question still continue to look at. I find it difficult, im sorry im running out of time. I find it difficult to believe that when just within the increased cost of gasoline many families had to squeeze 3 out of their budget now. I dont think its unreasonable we ask. We in the house have come up with two different replacement for sequester that arent as painful. I get at least you find something, mr. Miller. Maybe not. I want to go to the Inspector General. I have an important question for them. Im subcommittee chairman on the committee. The post Office Government work force and census. In recent news report and the Washington Post suggests that Agency Managers can be able to choose favorites among the employees to spare them from furlough and sequestration. Let ask and decide. Can you commit to us that the i. T. s office will be looking to make sure that whatever furloughs cover handled in a fair and appropriate manner so we dont have choosing of favorites . Investigative reallegation and we have a Hotline Center to take the allegations and to insure they ensure they are acquired in to properly. Similar in education . Yes. All right. Great. I have twenty five seconds. I had a couple of questions on improper payment. Im going yield back the remain of my time. If i could have. Its yours, mr. Chairman. If you went to your work force and told them they had a hypothetical choice of taking that furlough, that 5 effective pay cut, or finding a way to come back to you and show they can do the same amount of work with a 5 percent less employees next year. Not this year but next fiscal year. Would you predict the workers would come up with organizational changes or middle men that come up with organizational changes to allow you to keep the pay and benefits where they are, and do more or do as much with slightly less people . Just a prediction. I think thats what he is getting to. Is isnt there enough organizational that bilged in that in fact almost any work force faced with reducing other means, or taking a pay cut theyll find a way to do better in the efficient sei . Most of the savings since 2008 have been suggested to us by the employees. We have a smart very committed group of public servants. They will continue to find savings. And i would submit, mr. Chairman, they would do that with or without a sequester scenario. You would also agree that your work force is smart and innovative and given the right motivation. I would argue they have been. I think frankly we asked them even today to take on more and more responsibilities. They are forced and have been over the last several years to be more innovative with the program. It required both sides of the aisle to come together to find a balanced approach to pass a balanced budget, which is what weve done. And i believe that the federal cards, whether under sequestration, under what occurred in the prior fiscal year or what may come needs to be put in context with the coyotes that state and local entities have dirty incurred. In nevada and the department of education and the 70 are federally funded positions. That is on top of the reductions made by our state agencies. So im a bit perplexed, mr. Chairman, that the line of questioning that the other side somehow is pointing the blame under a federal agency had, rather than members to do our job, too, but the policies we need to a balanced approach, which is that State Governments have been doing for many years. Now i respect the professionals here today and in your viewpoint and i specifically want to ask mr. Porcari on the faa. Im concerned about air Traffic Control. We have 40 million visitors coming in and out of our airports in las vegas. So can you elaborate on what the impact of the furloughs were that occurred in 2011 on your employees . Be focused on what the new impact would be. But what already occurred . To the extent weve had furloughs in the past, they have not been nearly as broad as what is being proposed under sequestration. I mention the vast majority of the 47 as an essay in place of the subject to furloughs because 70 of operations account is actually the cost of people out there overwhelmingly in the field. It is going to have unlike anything in the past is going to have an acrosstheboard impact on operations. Were trying to minimize the impact on the maximum number of people. Again, i respect the position that faa employees are definitely going to fill the front under sequestration. What about the average American Traveler . At the travel by commercial airline and if youre going through a hub airport, which the book of the passengers are coming are likely to experience significant delays. If you are a general aviation user, you will see a number of places where control Tower Services controlled airspace was formally provided but will not be either midnight to 8 00 or 24 hours and you will operate in what we is a safe, but different operating environment. This is an important aspect because sometimes people talk about federal employees this nondescript aircraft performing an essential function. We are talking about air traffic safety. Has anyone forgotten about 9 11 and the effects of not having the topnotch safety we expect as the traveling public and what will that cause . Is a report issued by the Aerospace Industries Association Says the combined reduction in commercial air traffic resulting for the sequestered complete anywhere from 10 tonight 20 billion to reduce Economic Activity in a job loss of a person 132,000 jobs. We cant afford any more job losses. For trying to get our economy jumpstarted in moving in the right direction and we need to work in that regard. So is this study accurate . We have not independently verified that study, but there are several others out there that it broadly similar conclusions. What we do know this aviation but large is one of the driving forces behind the economy, whether its a passenger commercial air traffic, whether its air trout Production Company innovation every day we know is one of the driver said the economy that will clearly be in tax on the economy, broader impact of the sequestration cuts. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to close by saying i want to work with anybody who has a good idea for how we can identify target cuts in federal programs that arent deficiency can be improved to single out acrosstheboard cuts are not good for economies and Public Safety and our illconceived. Etchasketch live in a different direction. Will now go to the gentleman from gainesville, georgia, mr. Collins. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I appreciated. Im sorry, go right ahead. I yield. You should be next. Okay. One of the things going on the front row when you listen to the entire hearing a lot of times, especially when you go back and forth. It is amazing how many things we talk about that about really nothing to do with this hearing in all fairness. We talked about sequestration, we talked about other things. Its interesting if you talk about sequestration is there unimplemented recommendations could save the taxpayers 67 million over the last few years. Sequestration is 85 billion. A quick story to illustrate some questions with god. A few years ago coming you know my background, a pastor to church for 11 years i felt led to go back to law school. The only way can go back at 38 years is fulltime to get this over with. We sat down and settled in the senate income because they couldnt work and go to law school at the same time. So we listed all the things from other things who take lunches and cut back. I have three children. But was not discussed is taking a kid and selling them on ebay. We looked at what we could do. When i look at this right here, one of the things i served in the Florida Legislature as well. We cut our budget and an attractive business. The problem im having right here if there is summit talk about cuts in sales. At this point in time youre not listening anyway. Whats the problem . Hes got to have a balance here. I go back to 67 billion on the table they were not talking about. Mr. Porcari, the cuts you were discussing was furlough days, correct . One of the other things, and i believe my friend for misery talked about the rhetoric from both sides in dealing with the inaction in congress is also an understanding here that theres a frustration of common sense and planning. Im going to assume that a serious event here and not anything else, but we just thought it was going to happen. Thats the problem in government right now. The pollyanna approach that it wasnt going to happen. But it was something coming and now it is here. The frustration most people like myself who made plans Going Forward is not planning. My question goes back to the political nature of this. Mr. Porcari come youve done wonderful with your talking points. I remember secretary lahood say the exact same thing the other day. My question is you mentioned in your, chicago and San Francisco because those are the highprofile airports. Just curious, why didnt she mention that land at the busiest in the world . Because it doesnt play as well . Because you dont get the bang for the buck . Because i could only rattle off to refer at a time. So we leave off the largest in the country . Not at all. Therell be substantial impacts in atlanta. Next question. Governments in nevada, youre telling me you cannot plan well enough that you cannot stagger furlough days in such a way they would have to close a tower . Well be staggering furlough days. Employees will take one per pay period. Youre telling me you cannot stagger them in such a way the year, at least closing of the northsouth . Thats correct. Its a major operation centers, 84 of employees are outside of washington 10 in our tax center. I want to thank you think about this . Weve been working on this for months. When you had vig recommendations on the table that are currently getting around, not getting them coming getting a hearing like this when theres ruckus going on as part of the problem, its time to squealer figures the problems for having. In georgia a few years ago when the cut started first coming, one of the cuts were trying to look at apartments and one that was said was Higher Education, which is taking a direct hit. There became as saying were going to raise tuition 30 and then one of our president s said were going to have to cut extension program. In other words, were going to cut 4h, knowing good and well that was one of the least things that wouldve made it to have been cut. What he did was generate 700 cards across the state if they dont cut my 4h program. The American People are frustrated because they dont understand thats the reduction and they dont understand 67 billion on the table. Best of the American People dont understand. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you, mr. Collins. The jumbo lady from new york on this baloney. I think all of the panelists for being here and id like to address my questions to mr. Porcari. At any reference referenced in your opening statements. I want to thank all of my colleagues devoted for new york, new jersey and 21 other states that were hit. Mr. Porcari, the pats would have a devastating impact on hurricane seeing the relief that is the new york and new jersey that they to ask about to keep the i. T. Programs. The Emergency Relief Program in the federal Transit Administration Public Transportation Emergency Relief Program. Each faces sharp cuts under sequestration. Is that correct . Thats correct. The Emergency Relief Program for federal highways and bridges face over 100 million in cuts under sequestration. Is that right . Thats right. 101 million. Will the Relief Program be required to create less money to state departments of transportation and has already been approved . Weve made provisions of the emergency relief that it will not affect. It is part of the previous natural areas. And the federal highway administration, this will not be true. We will not be impact team sandy with each. Betray the cut of 544 million will directly impact the rebuilding postsandy. New york as he knows the city with the largest transit city in the world in terms of how we move our people. While that be a 544 million cut to sandy or how much will it affect the transportation . At 544 million will be towards the sea and the aid. If i may point out that the important thing is Congress Approved his mitigation. Rebuilding through more resilient standard in the last 18 months that have flooded heart of the transit system, for example. Five stations in my district. As resilient after its will bear the brunt of that cut. Wow. Is it disproportionate to sandy that the rest of the country . Supplies only to sandy aid. My word. Is there anyway we can change that . If its the will of congress, obviously. Why were we able not to sustain the cut in the Emergency Relief Program comes with the cuts went to the Transit Program . How is that decision made . The emergency relief funds were little over over 2 billion of that, the cut was 101 alien dollars, which left a sufficient balance to not only take care of the highway related Hurricane Sandy relief required under the program, but to cover the existing priorities as well. The other 544 million is the transit money for cme. Thats correct. While, to make that decision . Does a specific specific sequestration cut. We did not have any flexibility in that. I also wanted to talk about a flight that felled the great state of new york, killing a number of people including a dear friend of mine in february 2009, flight ready for a seven crashed on approach to buffalo. Both flight attendants and 45 passengers were killed and the National Transportation safety board said the pilots performance were found to have hundreds of miles prior to the flight, end quote. A new rule known as the pilot fatigue rule to emphasize response ability to pilot an airplane to ensure pilot their feet to five when they report for duty. The new rule does not restrict the amount of commuting pilots may undertake to the airport and id like to ask i guess he would be the proper person . Mr. Scovell . Who would be the proper person . Have you recommended the faa ensure that data regarding domestic for all 121 flight crews and white achievement this recommendation . We the one who made the recommendation . What type of study do you feel is required to understand the risk associated pilot cameo . Weve made that recommendation because gist of what you said. We found that most significant and eyeopening in turn said the fdas available information on pilot domicile to make sense. We thought it would be helpful to the agency and their safety oversight responsibilities to collect that data, not to jump to the conclusion that regulation of private domicile practices should be embarked down. In light of data, ntsb is concerned, the todays study and found a lack of available data without would behoove the safety regulators to take a look. Can i ask you very quickly, do you think the nonoverview of existing studies and literature is sufficient . We are not satisfied with the data we have. Mr. Scovell mentioned that National Science study. The results over the Aeromedical Institute on cabin crews as a proxy for flight crews. In neither case did it draw a direct link between commuting time and fitness for duty, the responsibility of the air crew. We all know we could benefit from better data on this. To believe the examination of literature is enough . Not yet. The faa owes us a response. I believe the 28th. We havent yet seen it. Im told informally assigned its on the way. Is a trusted chairman if we could request a copy of that important to me and the families who lost loved ones in the Airline Pilots and everyone else. Deputy porcari, can you make an effort to collect and analyze primary source data to determine whether additional steps should be taken for Flight Safety . We are looking right now what can be done in terms of reliable data and what i can commit to you if safety is our number one priority. We know this is a real frustration of all of us and we need to understand this better at this point. Id like if i cant for the the faa is completing now to speak for itself as the next step in this process. Thank you at my time has expired regretfully. I have a lot of other questions. Thank you for your time and testimony. Will go quick second round. The Ranking Member has a couple questions and i just have one or two. Well do that if the panel will indulge us. Mr. Scovell, i listened to which you had to say. The bulk of the recommendations added to your teeth lately so briefly so deal with it the issues and bridges in particular. The district i represent has been aging bridge the 600 million thats not uncommon around the country. What we didnt talk about one of the purposes of the hearing was where we can find saving to avoid having to do additional tax increase to offset some of the things were sequestered. And the unimplemented reports from your department, did she find some cost savings . Of course we did. Thank you, mr. Farenthold. Wed recommendations in the year before that 1. 7 billion not to say that all those financial recommendations trades late immediately to cost savings because they do not. Some we respect recommendations for is to be Enterprise Architecture or facility consolidation realignment are forwardlooking. Ultimate cost savings over the course of a long process to fully implement programs. We heard a lot of testimony about nexgen and aviation. Had the infrastructure aviation subcommittee. We heard about about delays associated with nexgen. I had the opportunity to speak to folks within the Airline Industry to commute back and forth to texas. I hear time and time again not only are these delays costing the Airline Efficiency and money, but to chile costing us money. How much would receive if we wouldve gotten next john done on time clicks we can issue estimates, but i would tell you in one piece were simply straight now is saving the airlines a significant amount of money. Its the equivalent of a couple thousand cars off the road. Theyre struggling getting a route from to corpus christi. Theres other regulatory approval. The houston metroplex initiative is one of the marquee is a the shortterm benefits of nexgen. Ive been down to houston to meet with the interlude part mental status. They take great pride in getting approvals in designing the approach is another accelerated basis. They are the truly committed to shaving years off of what would be a multiyear process. Anything this committee can do to expedite the process . Be that congress has been supportive of nexgen, a multiyear system of systems that quite frankly is expensive. If it continued yeartoyear commitments that we can plan ahead, the contract to community and airlines can be confident to make investments. Thats the single most important thing. Have been had the privilege of touring sa facilities, you have some kind than in women working there, the years 1950s technology. The traveling public would be better served if that were taken care of. Unhealed that can recognize the Ranking Member for a second round. First of all, i want to thank you all for being here and for your testimony. Its been extremely helpful and its clear more needs to be done. I would hope those departments would act on them swiftly. Certainly a lot of the discussion has gone to sequestration because that is the revealing ways. Weve heard mr. Desjarlais say theres more to come, more cuts beyond sequestration. And so, i guess im trying to figure out if they listen to you , ms. Tighe and mr. Scovell come to the ig offices have tremendous credibility. As a lawyer and legislator i respect what you all do. I was saying to myself, as you talk about, i think it was you they said there was criminal investigation because of personnel. I wish there was a level of trust with regard to other federal employees outside of your agencies. I was telling a group on the floor the other day when they were talking about federal employees leave at 8. 4 rate federal government thats not as extensive as to her because they have reaped benefits and pay. If they listen to federal employees and ask them why they do what they do, in most instances this because they want to help the public. Its not about hate. So you now, when the electric people losing jobs and theyre going to be some job cuts. When we look at furloughs like the lady i met the other day is going to lose 800 a month and shes got two kids, trying to put one through college. We may act like its not a big deal, but its a big deal. The thing i really can turn about is i want us to make sure that when we say there is going to be impact that is true. In other words, if theres Something Else to avoid certain things, i want to know those things are being done. I guess we get to situation where you talk about sophies choice, weve got disadvantaged kids trying to be all gotten that for them to be and they cant get there when you cut things the age of title i and that status. So mr. Porcari, now coming back to you, you said that before severe budget is exempt basically. Is that what youre saying . Is correct. 74 exempt. When you have the delays and played, when i look at baltimore, the verdict god about 250,000 commercial flights to hear. Im trying to figure out at some point something skeptic gave. They are already flying from 5 00 in the morning to 1 00 at night. What gives . Is an excellent question. Its like during a rock in the pond. It ripples through the entire system. You may have cancellations because most passengers are moving to a hub and spoke system, they may miss connections. Heres tightly tied together in banks. So we cant fully quantify what the impacts are. We believe they both be significant and its also to point out they are cumulative in the sensor airport experience includes the tsa delays to get through the security line. Then the potential flight delays beyond that. Just one question. Exactly where it is your responsibility and vendors began . For example, possible criminal investigations, whatever. Any talk about money launched, where is the line there . To follow my question . Now, and her stand. Generally dag makes recommendations. We are not management. We cant make management decisions. We make recommendations of the department has to decide how to proceed on those. Their responsibility to execute if they come up with correct faction, it is said to them to execute that. That is fully in the response ability. Im trying to figure out criminal investigations is clearly under my bailiwick. That is not sent in one way or another. The secretary under the act is strictly prohibited from in packing my investigations on what i initiated but we dont. I do know that Resource Wise im going to have to drop numbers over the next couple years. Lets look past this year. I need to drop numbers. In terms of people. We have a hide could attrition. That may be a nice deflection of an okay place to work. But for a budget, it has created problems. So we have to do a buyout of the ways the government has to reduce numbers. Thus few investigators and auditors. Thats fine if thats how we want to spend our money, but thats one of the consequences unless we sequestration aside. Were still looking at era over pages. Thank you all very much. Seemed that no other members said they could take this opportunity on behalf of the committee to thank our panel for being in front of ice. I realize it may not be the easiest committee to testify for his admissions status as is our solemn responsibility to hold government accountable to the taxpayer. Chairman issa likes to refer to assist the watchdogs. So thank you for coming before the dogs. Thank you very much and were adjourned. Thank you very much. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] according to a report released by the Veterans Affairs department of february, 22 veterans are committing suicide every day. One every 65 minutes. Wednesday the Services Subcommittee on ella terry personnel through some representatives of the military testifying about prevention programs in the funding that up for you in future spending bills. Live coverage of 2 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan 2. And instrument did not want the thousands of freed slaves and refugees and theres the infamous terrible case. I forget the name of the river. He had as many as 20,000. He wanted no but troops and his army and he had no black troops in his army. They reached savanna or liberty county. If you go today, you can meet people who will readily tell you, this is where sherman turned left. But he didnt know what to do with all these people, so he let his generals put out the word of the invited black ministers to come in a not of that, sherman setaside 200 miles along the coast down to jacksonville, florida. 20 miles inland for the exclusive settlement of free people with promise airing a tiny piece of land. Which was to train all of them hot. They will let us because the Andrew Johnson successor to link and the House Rules Committee met tuesday to discuss the Government Operations to the end of the fiscal year in september. Funding runs out at the end of the march. The house takes up the bill on monday. See them moving in its entirety at cspan. Org. Start doing the circumstances none of us wish we were. The cases we are spending money that we fire out and when you borrow money to run the operations, whether its a family or business or government, at some point youve got to pay it back. Our government will spend around 275 billion figure that we will pay on interest. In a normal year, or Interest Rates for different, that can move to 500 billion a year. This means that my children and others will have a diminished opportunity to have freedom and make the American Dream work. So this member is no different than any member of peer. We wish we werent in this role, but we are. I say that u2 have given given us a direction albeit with a great headlamp. Im glad were able to come to an agreement, move forward and this chairman bradburys has said on a bipartisan eye camera basis and will see how we do. But fox. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank the chairman and Ranking Member for coming today and then a default done a lot of work with the staff to get us to this place so we can keep the government on name. I understand what youre saying and i agree with you about the fact that this sequester is not good for the defense of this nation. But if you havent read bob woodward spoke i hope that she will, let me tell you page 326 on july 26, this is a direct quote. At 2 30 p. M. , chocolate White House Legislative Affairs to her went to the Senate Majority leader harry reid. We have an idea for the trigger, lee said. With the idea . He ask up tickly, sequestration. So i hope youre taking your plea to the president and his staff. While the generality of frequent question . Not yet. [inaudible] thank you. I hope very much do you have made your appeal to the president because we certainly have made that it heal and i think you know we passed two bills last year to stop the sequester and to make what we thought were sent to bowl, smart, commonsense cuts. We just havent been able to get bipartisan support for those. Its very important American People understand this is the president sequester. This is not republicans of the house sequestered. So this voted for it. I dont know festiva college is going to ask. Like many people, we hoped would never get to this point. The idea came from the president. I tallow the number one role of the federal government is the defense of this nation. Every other thing we do from the federal level pratt to clay can be done at the state and local levels, but not defense. If we dont have a Strong Defense and we are not kept you free people, the rest of it frankly doesnt matter much because we are not free we cant do the other things. So i appreciate your appeal. I appreciate your concerns about defense and you are wholeheartedly felt on their prior. I think our colleagues on the other side of the aisle are directing concerns to the wrong people because they think its the other side of the aisle that needs to Pay Attention to where we are and with that i would yield to my colleague from massachusetts. I would point out that tom is manned in her bornstein have put out a piece that discredit the bob woodward book. The gentlelady just say she voted for the bill that includes sequester . I believe i did. Wait till school kid is their separation of power. Executive and legislative branch. The legislative branch we say yes or no. Decoded so i say she owns it and the fact we are here at this point basically in a state of dysfunction is representative of the lack of leadership in the house of representatives. I think the gentlelady for yielding. Added to point out her definitive mark is not so definitive. Reclaiming my time, i realize theres a separation of power the three branches of government and i would say the house is only half the congress. The white house is controlled by democrats, senate controlled by democrats. The republicans in the house are not in the state of dysfunction. We passed bills last year twice, asking us to be taken care of and it was not taking care of. All the president would need to do is ask the senate to pass the bill the house sent over or to pass the bill. Were still waiting for the senate to pass a bill and send it to us so they can go to conference. She must support the sequester she voted come if she didnt she wouldve voted against it . Thank you. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. If i may respond, if i recall im not sure thats the vote ms. Mcgovern is talking about, but i believe theres a vote for the sequester in the summer 2011 in the cut cap and balance act so this is a republican priority. It is important secondly to make the point because they think we are adults and we all care about the longterm debt and the deficit. His three children, eight grandchildren. I dont know how many you have but we were talking about it and i do worry about children and future. We did pass the budget control act, which took a trillion dollars in the one term that come a trillion dollars over the 10 years of the decade and also a cap of 555 billion on discretionary spending. I also want to make it clear as i know the chairman and i worry that discretionary dollars as a percentage of the gross domestic product, as a percentage of the economy is at its lowest level in the last 45 years. So i guess theres a difference in philosophy because i believe we have to decrease the longterm debt. But i also believe putting people to work, investing in infrastructure, dealing with roads, bridges, highways is the way to do it. So this sequester cut as part of a cap in balance act i dont think its a responsible way for legislators to legislate. Mr. Chairman. Pajamas recognized. Sequestration is one thing. We hear about the continuing resolution and sequestration is upon us and we have to deal with that, but not now. It is keeping the government operating for the balance of the year and i hope we can stay with that. First of all it grew with the gentleman. In reference to the political remarks that have been named, theyre very appropriate in this context. Let us remember speaker john owner and eric cantor will not allow the government to go into chaos because we dont pass the debt limit. It became a very matcher boot early on 18 months ago the president and the leadership working together in the resolution was that they all worked together. We can all say we didnt like it. But it became law and we are there. Thank you for the comment, mrs. Slaughter. Thank you for an opportunity to speak. I didnt vote for sequester. I do know what we can do about it, mr. Chairman. Mr. Van holland god blessed is going to come up for the fourth time and i would do away with sequester and save us an awful lot of money with cuts to agriculture subsidies and Oil Companies and others instituted the buffet rule. I hope we can find it in our hearts today. For a time for the Budget Committee is a little bit embarrassing. I hope will be able to do that. Weve been sequestered [inaudible] [laughter] i told them to stop talking about sequestration. I hometown of kentucky. That may be precursor. Mrs. Slaughter in my were before the committee this morning, asking for a budget for this year and we may have just gotten an answer. I hope we paid our bills, but we support the organization. Mr. Bishop. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Before we engage in the political spin of the day in which you mind if i asked specific questions about the bill before us . I do have about three. Actually i have the first with the most question. Mr. Chairman, i wonder if your friend and acquaintance from the good old days if you have any stories we could use i do not find those germane to todays argument, but i will say this that with respect to that we have mutually assured destruction of each other. I give you business card. Im in trouble, blake. Some of the media report were naturally describe is adding 10 million to the current levels and that is not accurate. You about the shifting of funds since the operation and maintenance of the military. If you could simply me what you do in the shifting of those funds and perhaps what would be the offset for a 19. Essentially, unless we pass the dod appropriations bill that we included in this bill, if we dont do that and they stay under the old cr, theyre going to run short of operations. So what the bill does is shift money if the bill to pass the house stayed, shifts money into the operations and meet and. From when that money columns. Beat on a, the departments must import will be reduced if we dont do this by about 119. Thats because the plain old cr keeps each account static. All funding remain at last years levels. Important funds are cut from accounts in which they are needed while billions are given to obsolete programs are ones that should be reduced. A couple examples. 4 billion in excess for things like iraq operations that should be reduced, no longer needed. 500 million in savings from spare parts better access to what they need. The regular cr does not allow for a start. With these billion more in contracts the pitch. For example, construction of the next Aircraft Carrier would be pushed back a year. Construction of new destroyers would be halted. 17 hospitals, which are needed to treat hundred warriors would not rebuild unless we do this. The Defense Budget is a very fluid account, more than any other government because you got so many things at one time. Yearold positions of money, which are regular cr would take away the departments ability to spend money with immediate bad they are and where they would be made to it under the old law. Said this misrepresentation is roughly what you about the flexibility back into allen and for the military to cope with a wish to put. Let me mention briefly, to, hes the author of the defense bill that were incorporating in the fifth committee, which he chairs is proved by the senate committee. His favorite thrashed look at how dod wants and needs to spend the money they get, given the flexibility to fit todays needs. To you first see this shift, not necessarily us, but a shift of the budget is helping lessen the impact of the large civilian furloughs threatened within the Defense Community for civilian employees . Will this give them flexibility to play around with the concept . This does not address the sequestration problem. Dont give them flexibility to absorb sequestration costs better than they could have otherwise, but it will by no means solved the sequestration hay. Just on this one area of furloughs, sans this appropriation to vcr, thered be little be little opportunity to move around and mitigate that commission. This gives the military flexibility to see if they can post some mitigation into the impact are not. And i knackered and not quick contract employees quick civilian work further. If the flexibility to play with furloughs . Adult think it would have any impact. Each agency has to implement sequestration. But i dont think it would be of any hope in the area youre talking about. Jay carney spoke on the House Republicans 2013 spending bills and the president s outreach to congress on an alternative to the sequestered. You can see this entire briefing and other daily briefings at her website. The House Republicans yesterday talked about and i guess they sort of unveiled a proposal to extend the rest of the fiscal year two and cleared i guess some provisions that may stop in the sequester somewhat, impacts on the Defense Department although the programs they selected might not be the same programs that democrat would select donated the house or senate. What is the president s reaction to that . We are reviewing the proposed resolution so i dont have an official position today. I would point you to a couple things. One is we believe it at a cr should be practical, nonpolitical and consistent with the budget control. It is our understanding of the last one in cr with the budget control act. I would await for your further responses are experts examine it and make assessments about it. Our interest is not in islamist goals are met, that we do not go into another manufactured crisis we are focused on trying to find Commonsense Solutions to the challenge that face us with deficit reduction, the issue on the table consistently put forward. Common sense, middleoftheroad solutions that represent balance and have met republicans halfway to pursue that with the congress as we address the sequester in a way thats fair and puts us on a sustainable path. Former will have to wait while we assess it. A number of republican senators have set forth to say the president has reached out on the sequestered. The president is engaging with lawmakers of both parties and will continue to do so. He stood before you on friday and talked about the need for a bipartisan work on Common Ground when it comes to reducing deficit. We should be able to achieve that. Hes put forward a proposal that addresses entitlement reform and a serious waste part of a comprehensive package that includes tax reform to close loopholes and tax reductions and away speakerphone or said was his position two months ago. So both sides are for entitlement reform and tax you for a one of the issues that is still a matter of debate is what to do with the revenue gain from improving tax code, closing loopholes, limiting his special breaks for the wellconnected and while love. Do you take that and convert to tax cuts that disproportionately benefit the wealthy were applied to deficit reduction, conservative and reasonable position to have. So he is reaching out and talking to members on a variety of issues. Certainly the fiscal issues are among the issues hes talking about with lawmakers. Its not as anyway as the president or the white house not been comfortable with what the house is talking about. This might evolve into another one of those manufacturing tracks. I would take the cr, which they measure if it meets the test i talk about to send you continue to fund the government does not in any way resolve the challenge about the sequester or more broadly how to further reduce deficit preachy with a 4 trillion plus school over 10 years. That work remains to be done in the president is interested in finding the members of the caucus of common sense in working with them to bring about a resolution to this challenge because we should be able to do it. Finally you think this recognition here, although occasionally you see some Republican Leaders insist the president is not a plan. Perhaps they dont have the internet in those offices, the plan is available to of you. It is lived in incarnations including the Super Committee in fall 2011, the president s budget as well as the president s proposal to Speaker Boehner at the end of the year come which remains on the table to be taken up and we hope it is. The in supermarkets and fast food chains. Tuesday, Parliamentary Committee and beef producers examined government standards for testing beef products. This is two hours and 20 minutes. In england and wales and we have a board which i chair with the oversight responsibility for regulatory activities of local government we have a Membership Organization also within the National Policy affecting local government. Several is twofold about supporting businesses businesses, gross, a compliance for Proper Health of consumers. For product is mislabeled . Is by a trading standards responsible for food standards. Who brings enforcement action to be taken . Typically the office would take action it might require in place, warning, a prosecution is a last resort really have to enforce a precautionary approach. Emily e. Have taken place . I cannot speak nationally i am not aware of any region that has had a prosecution. But not in mine. Yes. Prosecution of the enforcement measures taken by then. But to be honest since there was so much National Publicity manufacturers and retailers with first top priority to put their house in order to insure the actions taken to assure public confidence. If they fail categorically to make those changes have been, was the local authorities consider the enforcement wrote. And that route is prone to contaminated or mislabeled foods who is responsible . The retailer . It depends on the evidence and Due Diligence the retailer has. He needs to know who is supplying him, where it comes from we would look at that but also follow through the chain and it would depend on the action taken. Have you describe your relationship . On several levels, to work closely with local government in a National Framework around the guidance that they would give regard to with their own food safety District Council areas. It has a an invaluable role to bring together National Issues to work towards. On a relationship basis the offense say it works with different to assure regulators looked at National Priorities of so they are aware of the risks of the food chain that fsa brings to our attention. I could go on committing is an effective one. You chair the lpga for the communities. Are you aware of, or consulted upon january this year . I would not expect for myself personally to be consulted on that. My colleagues would have been consulted on that. It concludes the fsa needs a greater understanding of challenges to assure it has the capability and capacity to deal with increasingly challenging landscape. Do believe of the recent tests the fsa has shown an understanding of the challenges they face . Since this issue became a national concern, the relationship between local government and fsa is a Strong Partnership to do with those concerns. At the local level all authorities are because of the fetid jolt challenges facing a country as a whole. Me know the using the riskbased approach with those financial challenges workingclass pretty clever to flee at all levels so when food testing is done, it is done once and the information is shared between local authorities on a National Level that booker are done on a much more widely basis. They recognize the complexity of the job job, Environmental Health offices and on it a day to day basis. Some risks we have to Pay Attention to this is one of them but from a unexperienced over the last few weeks, i am proud of the work that is being done and Public Safety is a high priority. Do you routinely pass good products are only dinner menus suspect . It is sent predominately by a the two samples we would take military ranger products that may be is in negative National Pitcher that we would do with the local situation. From the standards of view we will look get the National Pitcher and to shoot to determine if we should do something. We get complaints from consumers that shows a local or regional problem and we decide on that basis. It is not routine but we are driven by intelligence to where the samples go. What we can do is fishing trips he had to be quite clear what were sampling and why because weve been need to be quite specific and what taste. Can you explain the role in your decision juke canosa Health Protection agencies so to determine what types of foods we would want to sample and take part in that but the flexibility from the food standard side that comes down through the food stigmatization abet the types of food whether a labeling or composition issue. We plug into that and our information based on the information. Do they provide you with guidance . It is with guidance. What funding does agencies provide and the relief fund affair requires you to carry such . Requires some funding but most councils have a fund often including other types of samples that, again, is set private publicinterest and they will owe it helps Protection Agency gives credits. If i could reflect a male situation i have a budget which is 100,000 pounds per year that has just been reduced and that will enable me to sample a wide range of products safety, food, water , we will determine how best to use that budget. I believe in response to the funding from fsa 2012 provided nine had a thousand and 2013, a one point 6 million. One final question. Wasnt it a relief but then after the general election . Can i also refer to the year earlier question about if the Food Standards Agency instructed local authorities what to do or if we comply . The relationship has to be working collaboratively. They understand the rule but there was information that produced a report given nationally so that shared information between different parts of the country. With the effective means of communication about what those issues are. Said in particular anything to change some relationship is not required. Now the fsa has a new executive and locals have significant financial challenges and that gives us the ability to completely rethink how we conduct business and instead of reach with the same food sample 62 was shared significantly over the next year as well. You can make a go further. My question has already been answered. To they give any rate moved advice to relation to Public Health . Who gives you advice or assistance of contamination . Is that actually a Public Health issue but of labeling for what were supposed be eating. Where does the fsa began. With also disinformation time to time from sources like if it is a health issue and what contamination there is from the health point of view so you will get a crossover theres. And you are receiving . Most premises from which there is detailed guidance that we have half a mind to so we have good guidance mimic and you had direct contact immediately . What we did in response was to issue publicly richer there is no meat in the food chain. But just to make sure there are no issues we need to be aware of. The Background Information might help. And the National Interest this assault negative sugar and those amounts with the retailers but they work with the department of health health, Public Health institutes and fsa to identify those things to improve or health and wellbeing. And as a result of the partnership the of the information fed into policies are the responsibility to help people to eat better and be healthy. We have lots of examples of Good Practice between national and local regulators. You said you were issued a statement relating to the problems when you expect something to come out before . What is more of a standardized way but because of the media interest in much earlier we were talking and working out ways with a response to the issues but we dont need that notification. That part of the question is the current for those meet products. It is a good question and. A phineus specifically thin but these the way to think about it if the European Corporation with National Economic giving to the local authorities but if we Start Testing products you will see that there are hundreds of thousands of products on their shelves but which when duchesse for what, when, how . You could spend billions of pounds could you have to say with this is a bit contentious. Each began to the intelligence based. The betting knows quite to where that will take place. Earlier you said you cannot test products or have to have a good reason to do so . East on intelligence when reduced sample food we need to know what we sample for. So to tell the public analyst what doodoo do so i need pretty clear information. I would unnecessarily in the u. K. Take a sample of beef that not be my immediate thought i made checked in the content or any other source that we would normally come across. And in this particular case where that is a strong drive for autonomy and about supporting legitimate business to do the sampling program. We should put the responsibility and the chief executive chairs to have this on the agenda but of the time to look at the risk to shore up the businesses are compliant. Theyve looked up at all risks and how you have a large responsibility but by and large they want to keep the confidence of shareholders but another analogy on sampling is the police only stop drivers when driving erratically or under the influence dados sample hundreds of thousands of drivers on the roads. We have to look at the evidence, the risks brought to your attention to major the sampling is done in a way that provides it with reassurance. Final question. The trees contamination what they give a percentage . Maybe it is 1 of what level of contamination and is is acceptable to the not harmful . It is a leveling issue. Any level is unacceptable sleeve would be in discussions why there is contamination. Their release of National Guidance of trace elements and we would be guided by that in reno most products were made with less than 1 . Is it what it allows . There are certain elements in economic gave few particular details of for example, meet content and that sort of thing. You gave us dickers but does that cover the costs of testing you were carrying out. Go for the last two months the cost of testing but a grant is not given to the fsa when requesting local suretys to carry out a specific testing. So the moneys are a small proportion of the budget that is expended. Testing on sample products . Just to clarify 20 councils around to do testing mind standing is some of those if they will do one testing if given money but what we did, we spent over 5,000 pounds testing locally. So that is pretty similar to most council. With the offending element in increasing at 2010. Search and they. Since 2010 the first big test the deuced, we lost about 25 that will be about 33 depending on the challenges but i want to root the figures of the nsa so it is more independent than local authorities. The fsa and the zero local regulation of this has said the figures have been told reduction but doesnt have enforcement offices. Of local Regulation Office said through 2012 there was a point eight decrease in but to increase, a standards and budgets are part of the Environmental Health, which saw decreased 11. 5 in england and 80 in wales. Those percentages are single figure percentages from the enforcement offices. If you compare