Transcripts For CSPAN2 Capital News Today 20120822

early childhood education. again, a lot of research, some as referenced in today's report comes out as federal reserve bank of minnesota, gave sharon must affect of economic development a state can make is in early childhood education. so we invested state resources and were fortunate to bring this back and rested atop early learning grants. as a result, we are going to increase from 22 a.d., from 22 a.d., the percentage of four kids in delaware who were enrolled in a quality preschool program. in my view is that it's a true game changer. we are really, really excited about it. our effort will focus focus on four main pillars. one, a land of birth approach to school readiness. secondly though strengthening the quality rating program. this is not just about throwing money -- we have a terrific program and delaware called our stars program for early childhood centers noted their extra milestones they have to be to get a certain stars rating. we have a very clear transparent process, so we are focusing that as well. we are addressing health and development of the whole chat and building professional in effect to really chat at work force it and of course this is one of the real challenges because so many senators don't have resources they need to invest in quality status or materials. our program is going to change that. we are also focusing on working with teaching professionals in taking that to the next level. we obviously know are focused on building a professional workforce has to go beyond early childhood gum which is why the third after we are focused on is transforming the education professional. as today's report clearly shows, the top-performing systems around the world are those that recruit and retain top-performing educators. in delaware, we are focused on a number of things. number one commit conducting meaningful evaluations of educator performance and developing new leadership opportunities for most effective educators. were committed to opportunities for best educators to take on more responsibilities, earned her compensation while still staying in the classroom. around the country this is one of the day challenges. teachers say that they have to move on and get out of the classroom to earn more and build their career and more focused on changing that. we are also adding some coaching initiatives for principles. we talked to teachers as they do all the time and asked them if they cared most about, they care about compensation, but also the working environment within schools is a collaborative environment. and so much of our principles time is taken up in administrative matters. if you have it in any school recently, you'd be surprised by how much time they are focused on dealing with the bus company because the bus is late, chilling with folks into service because the parent complained that it is cold, whatever it is. with several initiatives underway to transition our principles to be more of instructional leaders. we've also got additional pathways to get into teaching positions, things like tsa as well so the colors stand residency program as well. finally, we are focused on improving professional development in our schools. i think a lot of teachers around the country feel the money we spend on professional development is often money that is not very well spent and so we think we've got to ramp that up significantly, which leads us to the last area i want to talk about, which has to do with user data. it is absolutely stunning how little good data at the educational community has had historically in terms of understanding how students are doing and giving good information on a timely basis to teachers and principals and other staff so that they can change their approach. so we believe we are at the cutting edge of changing none in delaware. it is about a new focus on transparency and performance in using data throughout the system to determine what is working and to challenge your thinking about what is not working. this is all possible because two years ago we introduced a new assessment. before that it is typically administered in the spring. results came back in the summer. this is absolutely no use to teachers who may want to say okay, i'll make doing? what can i change? that is all changed in its really change within the last year because we had this new assessment. we just finished the second year and it suffers several times a year. teachers can see in real times what kind of progress their kids are making. and if you link that was not only teachers see it, but principles than others. the kind of conversations this opens up some of the kind of dialogue among educators is powerful. we've just got every public school teacher in delaware now sits down several times a month with five of their peers. he said at a table of five people and drilling to put the data is telling them about student performance. i sat in the elements are not teachers who teach kids to add numbers. the data assignment kids are not making the game to get in the performance had expected is that they reached out, teachers took it upon themselves to reach out to the school having better results, to assist teachers in a school what kind of worksheets are using, what kind of approach are using a fortnight he seen here. similarly, we have our superintendence get-together amongst themselves once a month and periodically they get together and sit down in groups of four or five. he figures that were doing in high school not the middle-school reading. they dated is very clear. we look at the same data and not making the progress we felt we were making a middle-school reading. what can i learn from the other superintendent over here? and said this ties back to the professional development issue because many teachers in our state are telling us that they hands-on -- these hands-on meetings that they have several times a month as some of the best professional developments they have ever done. they have periodic meetings between our department of education and our districts, where we essentially share the data with each other and ask questions about what they're doing to improve. they come at the superintendent, board members, local teacher union have a representative from that district so everyone is operating from the same set of facts. these are very powerful conversations than we think disorientation is very transparent is just an incredibly useful tool. i had the opportunity a week ago to sit down with delaware's teacher of the year from this year. she's a fifth-grade teacher and our smartest school district and she was telling us how powerful desire to sit down to drill into the data mbo to talk with her peers about what they could be doing differently. so we are proud of the work underway in our state every game for a the earliest of data to working to teachers, but we also know we have a lot to do in the report today clearly says even the states doing it fast have a long way to go. none of us can sit still because it's very clear that all these countries around the world are doing quite the opposite. they're investing massively into human capital. and so, we know that identifying what comes off the plate at the state level is also very important because we can't afford to do everything, which is why i try to drill and an figure out what is working and what is now quirkiness critically important so they can do less of what is not working. to address that challenge, the leadership in our department of education is examining how we can organize the department, trying to transition from a department historically focused on compliance to a department focused on support. it is my view that some day and the secretary duncan has done nationally. he's been absolutely terrific with the support of states. i also in that area have figured out what is now working. i recently signed a two weeks ago an executive order requiring state agencies to hold public hearings and all three accounts so we can hear directly from the public, teachers, parents and everybody else but is not working to the extent we impose regulations that don't have any benefit to kids. we better hear about it because we can't afford to keep doing that. finally the last thing and maybe this is easier to do in a state of delaware size. we work really, really hard to keep everybody at the table. that includes business community, teachers union, and includes principles, disability community, parents. we don't have any luxury to have any finger pointing going on. to the extent we are getting something wrong, the best 86 it is fixed it is for us to talk together were getting wrong. so we have spent a lot of time on collaboration and keeping people at the table and i think that's invaluable. so that is sort of my message. i wanted to give a vocal sense from the perspective of the governor and i think a lot of great work is going on in many states across the country. as you have the privileg association. i can tell you the issue of competitiveness is not just to think the issue of the day. we spent a lot of time trying to compete to get the job spear but companies have to decide first they want to be in this country before they decide wednesday person either. we have a lot of work to do together. i appreciate the next generation irking the center for american progress on this report, highlighting the critical issue and i worked forward to working with all of you. thank you so much. [applause] >> governor coming thank you so much. we all appreciate your leadership on education. next up we hear from eric hanushek in our neck of the west, stanford university from my house. he is a renowned education economist and as we've discussed, this is not just about money. he has made a critical contribution by focusing on what policymakers and political leaders, how they can widely as resources for education. after that, we'll hear from jonathan baas, for the center of the next generation looks at voters attitudes on competitiveness and education. rick. >> thank you very much for having me. and thanks to the two organizations that sponsored this great report. when i look at this report, i think that it is starting to move the discussion in exactly the right way. the talk is not about tomorrow. it is about decades from now. it is about our children. it's not about what's going on today. it is what we are going to look like in the future. i wanted to run through a few things. i should say also the governor leaves, delaware is one of the top three states in terms of improvements, measure performance in math and science at the last two decades. so you should put a little extra weight on his comments. let me see if i can -- but i want to start with is a very simple syllogism. and that is that the future of the united states in the long run depends upon his economic growth. if we remain the same, were pleasantly doing all right. everybody else is going to move past. that is one of the arguments about this report. the second thing is a statement they could see a lot of lipservice, but i think it needs more than lip service. that is the only thing, in my opinion, that matters for long-run growth is the human capital of the work force in the united states. that is what has led to our success and that is what will propel us in the future. this report has made a great contribution in pointing out that it is the broad investment in our youth that is going to make the difference in the country. it is not whether we regulate this in the marketplace or whether the tax rate notes by 1% or she present or that. what is going to matter is whether we in fact and best in our youth and make it the results. and then finally, i will put in a remark their brands through this report that is not going to be so central to my talk, but it is absolutely clear that we've had a lot of discussion about distributional issues in recent time and the only way that we're going to follow our distributional problem is by thinking about good investments and are used and what that means. so let me fill in a few details. this report is important because it makes a statement that their nations recognize what has made the united states strong, which is our investment in human capital. and in particular, what is highlighted in this report as china and india, which are not very good economies right now. but in 20 years, malic and tiredly different. and that is the message here. so what we want to think about here is not how they are investing. there is a lot of that in the report. it is what they are doing. in particular, they are models of commitment to the future that we don't quite see it and the same regard in the united states. and i think they point out it is the challenge of the united states future. it is not that our nation will fall out a vocal into a long recession. is that we will not keep pace. we will not have the standard of living at the forefront. we will not be doing the kinds of jobs we are used to in terms of technological leadership and that is the key. so let me try to simply -underscore what investments in human capital needs. but i'm going to try to do is talk about the value of increasing the skills of our workforce. we have measures of the math and science ability of our students and pens that we see regularly is that the government mentioned and so are. what is less recognized is that performance on these tests is an extraordinarily powerful predictor of what economic growth looks like in the future. i mean, extraordinarily powerful. this is the thing that matters. and what is man is if the magnitude of this economic facts, that if you just sit back and say oh yeah, we know education is important. let's do some more. you're missing the point. so let me put this in a simple table that comes from some work in germany and economic growth than the day in the future. in particular, i am going to say, what would the u.s. future look like if we could be at the level of germany, canada or finland, which is that both of us? or what would it be if we actually meet no child left behind work? i will give you all four of those. what i am going to do is say at the future looks like the past 50 years, then we know that improving performance at two levels levels that these other countries will change our growth rate, which will change the future gdp of the u.s. and we can calculate in dollar terms, in current dollar terms what would be the impact. here's a table table you won't believe. i hope you can see this. the first row of this is calculating the present value of the added genes to our gdp over the next 80 years, which is the lifetime of someone born today. the expected lifetime of someone born today, look at the expected gdp. the columns are germany, kennedy, finland and then onto to ncrp ncrp in a second. these are the levels of performance increase family further from it. the first number -- i don't know that i have it. the first number on that chart in the upper left-hand corner says getting up for the level of germany as a present value of $43.8 trillion. that is on a 15 or $16 trillion gdp that we have today. are attacking about three times the current gdp as the present value of getting up to germany. now, think of canada. when i was going to graduate school, we used to refer to as the 13 federal reserve district. it's kind of like the u.s. a little colder, but kind of like the u.s. if we could get our performance level, which is an index of the quality of our labor force, a to the level of canada, it is easy to trillion dollars. and then finland, the eye of everyone in the world, but it is too cold. except for being too cold, it is $112 trillion in present value compare each worth 15 or $16 trillion gdp today. now, if we could actually make an clb work, which is operationally get everybody had two basic levels on this international math and science tests, that is what $86 trillion. it is not a trivial matter. now, the second row of this size, what proportion that says is that the future gdp because gdp gets and so forth, so trillions of dollars don't mean anything to you. germany is like adding an increase in gdp of 6% every year for the next 80 years. canada is 11.4%. finland is 15.8%. nclb is 12%. so let me translate that into another thing that might make sense to you. about half of our population draw salaries. so what these numbers say are these percentages and this is the average increase in the paycheck of every worker in the united states for the next 80 years. so just getting up to germany is sent too far ahead of last, but they're pulling away from us. it is like a 12% across-the-board increase in salary for every worker in the united states for the next 80 years. can you do to canada is a 20% pay increase, nothing else. in my sort of reckoning from california, that looks like it's worth it, worth doing something. we notice other countries are doing it. first, the report underscores how canada and india are manichaean the u.s. investment in human capital that is made as strong in the past. secondly, there's this other aspect that canada and india had the world's most messed up economy for a very long period of time and all of a sudden they say well, all make our institutions, economic institutions, too, was to make these investments in human capital more productive and they are doing now. quite dramatically. all these other countries have now surpassed the u.s. in terms of the school attainment with higher quality. very few people at least outside of this realm, the round understands that, but very few people understand that today the u.s. has a lower completion rate in high school than the average oecd country, the average developed country. if you go down the street, i think if we walk down to teach street and asked somebody, they would say were probably first in the world in terms of the art of education. that's not true, either in quantity or quality. this report is really important in my opinion because it says that we have to think of a broad investment in our youth. we have to worry about the family that they are helping out because they're extraordinarily important in education. we have to worry about the support network, the early childhood development and the school. in the past, we've done two things. first, everybody in the united states, including people down on each street say we've got to do more about our schools. but it's more that service. and if anything, it calls for a deepening the upper doing now. so we'll have slightly smaller class sizes. we'll have this, that were the other thing. a little extra program for reading. without thinking about what it is that creates higher achieving a better performance. and i will go in terms of saying the essential component at least in terms of the school and part is the quality of teacher. but that is not doing more and it's making better choices, getting better people and getting rid of bad people. every time i say getting better for a people, it is a combination of making better choices to ensure that the quality of our teachers is higher. if the need to do something different rather than more. we've tried the more strategy. genetically and consistently over the last 40 years and more has blessed us flat in terms of performance and outcomes. we have to do something different. and this is the line that was for the governor. you know, which is the political leadership here and we need governors to stop saying we've got to do more and get governors to say we've got to do better. that is where we are at in my opinion. [applause] >> thank you, eric. my name is jonathan boss and i want to thank ann and not at the center for american progress further issues. it's fun to work with folks committed to the next generation. we want to conduct research and see how they perceive america stand the world in education relative to this report. the one thing i would differ with what eric said is if he went to that person on h. street, they would want america to be the leader in the world on education, but they are not necessary sure we are at the moment. we asked a question, and methodology of over 1200 registered voters, likely the 2012 general election voters. samples of african-americans, latinos to the survey was conducted at the end of july. one of the questions we asked was a follow-up for a question asked in 2011. once again we found plurality of americans do in fact think the united states is falling behind other countries when it comes to education. we asked the question in another way some voters believe that other countries are surpassing the united states when it comes to education. we ask in a couple of playful ways they show you as well, we see the majority of americans think future innovators come from other countries. voters want leaders to prioritize restoring leadership and increase investment education, particularly executives. the next president states of governor, more so than leaders in congress. they're interestingly for us, they are willing to pay more in taxes if those funds are dedicated to his education, k-12 education. majorities to pay more in taxes for pre-k, k-12 and higher education and majorities would also pay more in tax personally reduce spending in other areas of the sons were dedicated across education levels. the parkway tolls, we found across lines are going to pay more in taxes. so on the left side, we we asked this question from 2011. in 2011, 40% of voters thought united states is behind other countries. 22% about even in 22% ahead. today 46% say we are behind, 25% had an 25 about even. on the right inside our schools in china and india catching up with surpassing, but the same or behind your schools. 14% say they are catching up. 44% say they are passing schools in the united states be 13% about the same in 10% falling behind. two different approaches at this question with very similar results. these numbers are consistent across state lines. asked in a different way, the left and said we asked where will the next bill gates come from. on the right-hand side to more of a scientist to cure cancer come from? more people say the united states is any one country, 35% say the united states will produce the next bill gates and we explained to that list. the founder of microsoft and 31% believe the united states will produce a scientistic cures cancer. we see the majority and left inside, 52% of voters say the next innovative leader that the gates will come from another country. 25% china, 15% india, 3% 0.9% somewhere else. on the right-hand side, where will the scientistic cures cancer come from? 40% say no. in terms of the priority voters face on this issue, the high one good 70% of voters want the next president, whether it's barack obama or mitt romney to meet restoring america's leadership in education and increasing investments in education a top priority. 42% a top priority, 36% a high, but not necessarily top priority. these are consistent across party lines as well. among democrats for the president they would like 90% to be a top for education. among independents is 80% of republican voters is 61%. the governor's level is 85%. 69% of republicans. and the next congress, 77%, 70% of advance. so at least two thirds of voters across party lines for restoring america's leadership in education to be a top or a high priority. and not only do they want it to be a priority for leaders, they are willing to put their money where their mouth is. we asked this in two different ways. going to pay more for education programs for pre-k, k-12 and higher education and we also one half of the sample if they do want to pay more in taxes and reduce spending and other programs and majorities across the levels so they would be willing to. the dark lubar means they were very willing to pay more in taxes for the life of ours somewhat willing. total numbers k-12, 68% of voters are going to pay more in taxes and those funds are dedicated to education. that's 81% of democrats, 59% independents and 57% of republicans. the pre-k level is more consolidated around democrats going to pay more in taxes. lower levels of independents and republicans. k-12 across party lines is a desire to personally pay more in taxes at the center dedicated to education. pay more in taxes or reduce spending for other domestic programs. majorities of voters would do so for all three education levels. again, the partisan dynamic is very similar. by party, the consensus is around k-12. 76% democrats, 64 independence and 55% republicans are very somewhat willing to pay more in taxes or reduce spending in other areas if funds are dedicated to programs. that is where voters come out on these issues. i'll turn this back to ann o'leary. [applause] >> thank you very much. i'd ann o'leary, director of the family program for the center for the next generation and i want to just say i'm delighted to be back in d.c. that is my home base at the center for american progress. i'm wearing my new hat. is not set from the center a think tank based in san francisco, dedicated to improving investment in children and families and investing wisely in children and families and gaining the political will. we are focused on looking now at a new strategic communication to get people focusing and thinking about issues that are high quality research quality research and melissa were doing today. i'm delighted to be joined on the stage by rick hanushek, bob carpenter, one of the new authors of the survey that jonathan voss just presented. is the chesapeake beaked consulting and a long time, very well respect his survey researcher, poster, particularly republican surveys. were pleased to have him in a bipartisan survey us. and marilyn reznick with at&t and executive director of educational leadership at at&t a lot of work in educational leadership on the business side. i'm really delighted the maryland sfs. before starting the discussion, i would want to reiterate my thanks for the american progress and anita cooper, in amherst, co-authors on the report, terrific work taking hard at data from china and india. we appreciate that. and thanks to michael allender who provided a lot of guidance and leadership throughout. i really appreciate their help. let me start with maryland who we haven't heard from yet. how to go back and save more about one one of the things refining. what we see in the business community. matt started by telling you one fact i want to reiterate. in china by 2030, were going to have 200 million college graduates coming out of china. that is more than the entire united states labor force. the other fact that as we highlighted in the report that is quite interesting is that we look at the u.s. labor force. one of the things happening is that people are retired wicked new individuals, we see that we have a less educated labor force today there are new entrance, less educated than those retiring from the u.s. labor force. so really a change in how we're doing things in the united states. marilyn was mentioned at the beginning the commitment that at&t is made to the type of people they feel they need to hire in the workforce, which is the only hire people who have those secondary education or training in terms of new entrants into at&t. they do this at a time in which there is a scarcity in terms of individuals who are and all jobs. so i'd like to turn to you and have you stay up a bit about what type of commitment to think business community is making enemies to make of it is sure as you look at what the global competitors says. >> thank you. at&t, like every company invests in education because you need you need a smart scout work for us be successful in an increasingly competitive global marketplace. we know that education is directly tied to growth and development. in fact, investing in education may be the most important thing we can do to help america remain a leader in a global economy. we invest a lot in education to increase high school graduation rates and better prepares students for college and career. a lot of companies are investing in education. and yet, in spite of those investments, in spite of other good efforts that are going on in this country to improve education and workforce development, we still are not able to find enough workers with the skills we need to fill the jobs that are available today. and then if you look at the graduation rates in this country in both high school and postsecondary education, those numbers are only going to get worse. then when you look at what china and in you are doing, that is real cause for concern and that is why we need to do more. >> rate, while thank you. can you see a little more about the type of investments you see the other worker community investing? for many years we've had the business roundtable and other stepping up to the plate. we have the governor of delaware today saying they want to make sure businesses off the table. what d.c. in terms of how we get businesses like at&t more involved in this debate in the public way? >> i think we do have to do that we have to engage a broader part of the business community. it can't just be a handful of companies that are always the leaders. it can't just be the business roundtable. it needs to be all business is a minitour card to work hard to engage more of an. we have chosen to focus on that particular problem in the country, but other companies are looking at k-12 education, early childhood education. and in fact i think there's a real growing sense of urgency in the business community, particularly around k-12 education, but i think we have to be careful that it's not just k-12 education. by the time i get the students out of high school, we need to make sure that postsecondary institutions are prepared to accept those statements, graduate more of them faster and have them prepared to enter the workforce. >> welcome upgrade. when they take take up on something you said he had one of the things they found in the poll is that there is this very strong commitment to k-12 commandment. as jonathan just presented, 68% of voters said the willing to increase taxes in order to commit more k-12 education. 57% of republicans would increase taxes to those dedicated to k-12 education, but not the same robust numbers that early childhood that we look at how you read. can you say a little bit more about what it's going to take in terms of the political will and some of these issues? one of the things we found is reported. in some sense we know what to do, but what we need is a robust number you see in k-12. maybe if you could speak to what we found in the k-12 numbers. >> certainly. just to follow up on one dating marilyn said. the public is ready to follow investment education. we are willing to pay more in taxes more in taxes across the board, whether it's democrat, republican or independent and we see slightly higher numbers add up parents on the same question, which is really not surprising. in terms of how we move forward in terms of here, the public again as john pointed out, the public has believed that high priority or a top priority, that their governor as well as the next president and congress should be focused on education. and when you think about the high versus top it all the things that a governor or member of congress or president has done his or her plays, to make it a high priority and a top priority is still a very important statement. when you're in the 80% and 90% of the public lending to focus on education, and that speaks volumes for what are the officials should be doing. in terms of moving forward, it is really convincing it is a priority, not just of those in the room around the city, but it's the public is ready. voting members that are likely to vote in the 2012 presidential election. onecompany focused on education and are willing to pay for it. and on my particular side of the i/o, we are saying 60% plus saying sure, i'll pay more for a commitment to education. >> is a fascinating number and i want to highlight two things you just said. one is i want to highlight survey were voters and the next election and that's really important. but the other thing is that the parents are higher in some of these numbers, not the pricing. but one of the things that is so fascinating is the last several weeks facing a very big shift and focusing on medicare and talking about what we need to be doing for seniors and that's obviously a very critical part of who we are and that we want to make sure that our seniors have the greatest generation do not live in poverty were committed to medicare and social security. one of the things that is frustrating is how do we have that debate, but also ensure that we have the type of commitment to the next generation to her young people. one of the things about bob is always the in the commandments in how we may be able to build on that to get our politicians and voting on these issues. in fact they do care about this. they also care about medicare, but this is a top priority, high priority and they should be talking about it. >> let me share some additional numbers in terms of the clash and where we rank as a remember, jonathan pointed out among all respondents, the u.s.a. that had, 25% said it had, 46% and 21% at about even. perez, 21 ahead, 55, difference of nine points behind and 16 about even. so across the board we see parents believing that the u.s. and other countries is falling behind. a majority believe that peer to the question you think schools in china and india catch up at u.s. schools are passing u.s. schools is about the same or falling behind. we see about the same numbers. 14% among all respondents catching up. 44% surpassing, among all 46% among parents and 13 about the same among both. but when you look at making the commandments, how willing the gb to pay more taxes if the funds raised were dedicated to kindergarten through 12th grade education programs. among all respondents, 60% were among willing, among parents 75% were somewhat willing. how willing would you be to pay my taxes as well as reduce spending among all respondents, 65% area or willing among parents. so you see a greater commitment to non-parents. one of the caps i do politics is encouraging to get out of the. and they develop a message that they're going to hone their elect officials accountable. when you look at the questions relating to the priority for the next president among all respondents, 70% there is a top or high priority among parents 80%. what 88% of, in particular, voting bloc is saying something, it is incumbent on any of the official, or someone who wants to be an elected official to certainly within. the next congress among all respondents, 72% for high priority, 75%. how much of a difference. over 75% or even 72% of the public expressing a particular point of view, it is important to obviously pay attention. restate governor bob all respondents, you have priority. so again, a difference of eight points, 85% of parents are saying to their governor, pay attention. so you know, make it either a top priority or a high priority. again, when you think all that is on the governor's plate or president's plate to 5% focusing on a single issue at the top or her priority, that's a pretty strong message that if i were governor, i would be rewriting the state speech right now. >> so they heard from maryland about the business leaders available and we see there is critical well to do this. and then the question, what do we do? brick touched on that in the remarks that happens a little more. i want to highlight one piece of this report and i noticed some of the ideas to help this report is americana, a research associate. and as he dug the numbers. one thing she brought forth is this issue that if you look at reading scores, one of the things that happened is that we're doing quite mediocre with regard to international comparison. the students who go to our most wealthy schools, the way we measure that is less than 10% of the students get free and reduced price point, it will cure school, poor schools for 90% aren't free and reduced price lunch. you see a huge gap. so you see wealthy students are number one in reading compared to these other countries, where poor students were only second to mexico. so a huge difference. not so much of the different is not pointed out at the beginning were all doing mediocre in terms of math. but you have really focused on looking out what it would mean if we actually made some improvements, both in our math assessment, but also if a close some of these inequities that we have overall. can you say a little bit more about that in terms of we could have the political will, what would we be able to see? >> we really talk about changing changing -- you introduce the discussion of medicare that the current debate, the paul ryan budget is all about what is the balance between future revenues and future expenditures of the federal government trying to take care of the fiscal problems you see. they all go away with a slightly higher growth rate. they go away. and we don't have those discussions if in fact we can improve the quality of our schools. now, the problem with improving the quality, i think we have from washington d.c., the unfortunate part of this meeting is in washington d.c. gives you the sense that washington d.c. has much to do with education in the u.s., whereas it's actually different states that are the key to education. i think we've had two terrific presidents in terms of education policy in a row. i think george bush and barack obama has been terrific on education issues. but it is whether you can get the state to in fact changed dramatically. if you go out into the country, countryside outside of his district, you see that there's a real battle going on. we all witnessed this constant and saw it was in a lot of turmoil about how state laws should have sat should have sat should have sat should have sat they changed the labor laws or the pension system or what have you trained to deal with education. none of the states quite know what to do. we don't have a lot and it's all a great experiment. i happen to think it's a good experiment because it is moving states to consider first and foremost issues of the pay of teachers and evaluation of teachers and how those go together, which is the secret to changing anything. >> right, what one of the other seekers of changing anything is also investing early in early childhood that i want to raise that because one thing fascinating look at the maryland and the work he did on the survey is that we see in the business community and the voting public a strong commitment from k-12, but not a strong commitment to early learning and necessarily to higher education. i think it's important to recognize what we are doing. so china and india, not noted at the beginning china has said are going and make sure 27% of our population gets three years of preschool education. 3-year-olds, 4-year-old on the account of kindergarten so their 5-year-old would get three years of data. for us, our three and 4-year-old, only about 50%. it's quite a significant difference. india is also recognized that will make sure 60% of our kids are ready when they enter primary school by 2018. again a different commandment. but many people know is we've made a commitment and many states have made a commitment to preschool education. we've seen the repossession and the impact on our economy, does have the robot for they perceive they had to rollback and we are -- i think this is concerning. i do it for you to say a word about the economic commitment. if you want to add anything to that. >> have been a good start through preschool education is an extraordinarily important. what we do see the schools in the sixth grade are the ones behind in kindergarten. and we have to deal with this issue from not only equity and fairness kind of data, but also from where our country is going to go, because these are resources being left behind. much of this discussion of preschool actually can be traced back to a colleague of mine, and noble laureate in economics from chicago who has done a lot of work on preschool. and the simple line that he had said they think should run through all of this discussion is fat burning beget learned. when you start better off, you learn more in third grade if you start ahead. when you know more in ninth grade, you do better in college and the colleges and universities can build upon the stronger base. and it starts early and our nation to the extent that our european nations has done and that is to try to ensure a solid starting point. and a part of this and the statistics that we have before for that upper income, middle class and upper income parents know the story that she start early. i remember a psychologist friend of mine said well, you know, when we had a head start comment really about nutrition, how penetration because it's not developmentally appropriate for kids to learn things. and then you look at every middle class parents in the country who is making sure that their child is learning way before they get into any kind of school and you realize that this is not the right thing, that she really have to start early and in particular are most vulnerable populations have to be helped. >> i think this report is really sobering. i think we've all got some notion that china and india, yeah, they're really big, but when you see the numbers, it's really struggling. when you put their investments, starting early, we are not. it doesn't take a lot of math to figure out where we're going to end up. and i just think the report is very important for putting real numbers, real data behind that rather then yeah, we start having to worry about them because they're sort of big and growing. this is real data, real numbers and that is really alarming. >> i want to make the point that the public, while perhaps not quite as committed to spending money are being taxed for k-12 education, it is still supported that being taxed for pre-k and for higher education. when you see a number like 60%, which is the number willing to pay more in taxes for k-12 education committee think wow, 68%, two thirds or to put ip willing to be taxed to pay for more. it's important to point out that 60% of the same voters said they would gain more for pre-k education and 55% said they would pay more for higher ed. and i don't know of a single politician in this country who would take 55% job approval are we elect scored 55% of the ballot or 56% and not be happy. so while 68 is a great number and another was focused on, to 55 and 56 or higher ed in pre-k respectively are important numbers to remember and to think about because the public is committed to spending more of their tax dollars on education across the board. k-12 certainly comes in first, but the other two are not far behind. >> i'm going to a question for a moment. rick had one more point he wanted to make. >> i want to add a couple and it does. i'm not really a reckless person by birth, but the two stories that, thayer, first is the importance of the imported labor into silicon valley, which is a reflection of the fact that many of the firms in silicon valley look more to h. one v. says teenagers to our k-12 education system. and that is key. the second man is to try to keep my body going. i play with some other people around stanford. one of my long-term opponents as someone who's getting a phd in electrical at the university comes out and says, i'm going back to indiana. the opportunities are better there for me than they are to the con valley. and that is the part that brings someone would talk about china and india and not only developing their own, but having the opportunities for educated people. >> using our world-class education system to then import back to the transpacific is another point. several more questions. in the pink right there. >> thank you. i'm a correspondent for macedonia television for macedonia, europe. talking about competition from china and yeah 10, 22 now, what about now? between september the european countries like spain, portugal, italy, ireland, are you ready for the high skilled personnel coming to this day when you talk about high school personnel and not taken a college graduates. pentax zoom out dr. of science -- okay, people who speak at least two foreign languages. >> yes, i think one of the things that is very evident is in this particular report we focus on competitors in china in the future. there are real competitions in terms of what's going on right now in bringing up the issue of hero. i think one of the things we recognize that some underwear was a camp right now, the united states is preparing our children for today or tomorrow, certainly not for tomorrow and even today we are stretched in terms of how we prepared our young people. i was looking at some data is not in the report, the to send data to foreign languages, one of the issues you just mentioned. i took a redeye last night because my daughter started demanding it to be there for her first at kindergarten. she started adding mandarin kindergarten called fuming charter school. i was curious how many children are learning mandarin. it turns out the last time they collected data about four years ago, only 60,000 kids in the entire united states for only. the entire country of china is teaching english. only one of five children learn another language. so we really are behind in terms of a whole plethora of issues, including foreign languages. i think you make a good point, which is the need to look both today and tomorrow. >> we are going to take advantage of this many europeans highly trained as we can. and actually i think this is from a very parochial u.s. view, this is one of the ways we can bridge to a better educated labor force by a in the short run borrowing people that are trained in major education systems abroad. >> let's see, we have in the purple and then in the pink. >> hi, thank you. alyssa schwenk from change the equation. one of the tenets mentioned at the beginning of the presentation terms of where china and india are investing their resources and strategies regarding education a stand. we also spoke a little less about teacher quality. i'm just wondering what investments are china and india make you that are interesting in terms of science and technology he? >> i'll say something and turn to rick, the first of all, congratulations with your great work your great organization focusing on not on the same subjects. what we know at the beginning is that china and the right now, china in particular is graduating over a million people and half a million people are investing tremendously in making sure their population in higher education are trained in those subjects. india is making the same type of investment. we make investments much, much smaller, much larger scale. one problem facing the united states will you get to, and i know you know this wasn't anybody, but because we don't start early, by the time students get to college, they are not able to participate because they haven't received the baseline they need in their early ad in case all of education. marilyn, did you want to make a comment? >> we to. not surprised that an at&t would care about stand. those disciplines are at the height of our business. increasingly we think this disciplines will be important to every industry and every business. stan drives innovation. innovation drives the economy and i think that his wife so important. >> this is sort of a simple global answer. the other nations pay attention to whether their teachers know matt before they teach it. and we don't pay as much attention to that in the u.s. so that the stem problems that are often talked about our middle-school math and so forth. i think they're actually a third and fourth grade math where we are preparing a and even deeper than that. we have to make a commitment that knowledge and results are important. >> let's see. the blue here and orange in the back. i'm calling you out by your color today. if you stand up, i'll repeat your question. ibm back [laughter] [inaudible] >> to two observations i want to offer them like to have the reaction of the panelists if possible, as number one, when we talk about quality in the context, the danger i perceive is that we may have already used the ground to those competing with death at area. i.e. we want to model quality within 30 years about what china and india and other countries in finland and canada and germany are doing. the questions that arises is observation is what atrocities do you see in place for us globally to define? apple is now the largest capitalized company and somehow the company has to find quality of globally. they've managed to do that and it's an american company. so i would like to hear some observations about how do we go about really thinking about 30 years ahead from now, not in an american context, but a global context. the second question i have is icy and place it and what it's been said and i haven't had the benefit, that we will lose part of the population regardless of what we do. i would like for the panelists to talk about what assumptions have gone into the study. you talked about the results, the methodology, what assumptions have gone into it when he started out on this process to define the study? thank you very much. >> so, let me turn to the panel to think a little bit about quality. i know a number of people are working on an effort in the states to define some of our national goals of how we are preparing children in terms of being ready for postsecondary training or for college or postsecondary education through something called a common core initiative to make sure that we do have an understanding in all of our states. marilyn, i don't know if at&t is banned about, but you have to see to that effort? >> yes, we are very involved and committed to helping the states now implement the common core standards and does not an english-language art as governor markell said earlier, the real heart part comes now and implementation. we have states agreeing to that, but implementing that and join with the results of the assessment when those come in 2014. but for us, we are going to be the recipients of the outcomes of that, if you will. that is going to form our workforce. we must adhere to higher standards, to higher quality so we can remain a competitive force. >> i think that to your first question, quality is going to be very hard to measure because then, for instance, the business community and the quality of employees and how they perform his or her job is the measurement. to a parent, the quality of education is going to be so their child has a little better, it's not a lot better than they have. .. >> i want to do what i can, either through paying more taxes or through my congress member or governor, encouraging us to be more upfront and involved in pushing the education agenda at all levels. ultimately, that is going to be my measurement in terms of quality. because my job is a little bit educated and has a better life than i do. again, 200 million is an astounding figure. but you have to put it in to a sense of the entire person and their existence and how that will be measured. >> i have a slightly different take on this. and that is the kinds of policy decisions that we are making, we have a measure of quality. we can measure the ability of people fairly well and that is fine. there is a much broader sense that everybody thinks about when they think about quality of life for me, it is not necessary that every person in this room advances that. there is going to be new objects and focus. for the kinds of broad policy decisions in the broad competition in terms of the development of the world economy in the future, i think that we do okay right now. we know how to do it. >> let me just say one thing about the assumptions that were made. one thing i want to make sure to be really clear is that obviously global competition is not all bad. having china and india educator workforce, is we want more people to be educated and to be contributing to solving the world's problems. it is a good thing there to prove the education and workforce trade one of the things that we don't want to see happen is for the united states to be in a lack luster economy. so that is where we started. and we look at what is happening and i have been pulling out some of the numbers here. what you are seeing is that from 1980 until 2011, china increased their world economic output from 2% to 14%. over the same period of time from the united states decreased its world economic output from a quarter, 25% down to 19%. things are going in different direction, directions, and that is the assumption we started with red.. [inaudible] >> i am mindy reiser, i am a sociologist and i work with the u.s. department of education and also internationally. [inaudible] >> [inaudible question] some private education institutions are really diploma mills that we have in this country. other campuses overseas, universities with great salaries, high-tech all over the world, campuses and the gulf states and elsewhere. they are available internationally from an i.t. has some a lot of that. some of the opportunities to learn and grow are now diffusing internationally come even though you can get a degree. my question is, i would like to ask you a little but more specifically about the world business universities that i'm talking about. there is motorola university, gallup university. how are you perceiving this? as at&t have university? and of course, cisco does a lot. is their association there association bring them to the front? can you tell us what kind of training at&t does provide? in terms of its workforce. >> my observations in terms of what that means. [inaudible question] >> her microphone wasn't working very well, so they're probably a couple of questions in their current one is the quality of higher education. some things are not as good as they could be. what implication does not have. the implication of businesses that have their own universities and trainings. the third one, [inaudible] let me talk to maryland. we have to universities, which are owned internal education and training organization for our employees. and we provide a really broad array of coursework for our employees, everything from basic management courses to hire technical courses, and that changes as the needs of our work force changes that is one of the things that we need to worry about. in terms of education, generally in this country. technology is changing our jobs and changing the nature of the work force faster than we can prepare people. how do you educate and train people for that kind of a workplace. at at&t, for us, it is ongoing all the time. we can go and take courses for our own edification to change jobs and reach skills so we as we can be competitive within our own workforce. and i think we need to keep up. we talked to other corporations, obviously, who have their own workforce and training programs. i don't know of an association that brings us all together. >> sing a couple things about higher education come i think higher education is going to go through an enormous transformation in the next two years. the best example other than mit is to stanford courses and artificial intelligence and database management. that were offered to over 100,000 registered students in the world. all of a sudden, we should not monopolize this whole tier. part of this is also a story that there are students in other countries that are more hungry than our students. that are out there trying to work harder. that is part of what china and india is. they are just not at the level of even california schools. but what you see there is with 1.2 to 1.4 billion people, there are a large number that are working very hard on their own, to get to the point where they will be at the highest level in their own countries and to move into the u.s. universities and so forth. >> well, i would like to think the panelists, not only for their contributions today, but for the ongoing work that they do on these issues. please join me in thanking the panelists. >> i will be quite brief. i want to thank you for your participation today and hopefully you will take this report and help us all raise the flags for public attention on this issue. when we started to this report, remember the first day that i walked over to my colleague, adam hersh, and i said to him that i that we will find out those crazy chinese over there, they are teaching their kids multiplication before they start school. i was joking. only two weeks later, there were experts who pointed out to me that the chinese have just changed the preschool curriculum. they used to teach three digit multiplication by entry to kindergarten. predigital tradition. but they tested 90,000 pre-k students in china, a couple of years ago, and realize that they couldn't use three digits, so they are bringing down our standard 22 digit multiplication. by the time that you enter kindergarten. so what middle-class parents know, one of the things that we see around the quality deficit in india and china is that they are mimicking what middle-class parents know in america need to happen for their children to have the skills to compete in the global economy. that is one of the points that we make and support heavily. we look at the patterns that have served to middle-class and upper-class families well over several decades. they have focused on volunteering in their children's schools and they have focused on making sure that children have jobs before they graduate high school come so they have some work experience. the outcome of those patterns of behavior are markedly different for children who have those and those who don't. even for poor kids, whether they are able to take advantage of early childhood, parental volunteerism, quality schools and employment, they also do better as adults. it is not a surprise that china and india are limiting our behavior. what is surprising is the pace at which they are doing this and the scale. the biggest echo is china has 1.1 million students graduating with degrees. that number will rise dramatically as they get towards their college completion goals over the next 10 years. in india, they have increased in seven years by 200% from the number of graduates. about 220,000 spam graduates compared to our half a million. in that same seven years, our number of spam graduates only grew by 24%. in fact from the last year, in 2010 from the number of graduates declined a little bit. sort trajectory of projects may not be anywhere near where we needed to be. so when you think about it, 33 -- for every 100 kids that enter elementary school, 33 kids in america are graduating from college. our assumption in this report is that we change that. not every kid has to go to college, but in order to get a job at at&t, every kid has to be able to get a postsecondary credential or degree. for that reason, we also looked at the american history and we saw that when ronald reagan was president from there was a very telling report called the nation at risk. barack obama brought together the nation's governors. the goal of that summit remains the goals that we have today. we have not yet achieved them. as bill clinton, raise the red flag again, calling the nation to focus on improving the outcomes of our children. none of those presidents gave lip service. all of them focused on investment, as did george w. bush and has barack obama. but what we learned by doing this research was that china and india approaches unturned approach the state differently. they have a plan. they don't just have goals, they have a plan. that plan started from pre-k and goes through college. how many pre-k slots do i need? how many qualified teachers do i need? how i get qualified teachers, how do i keep them. how many was secondary. >> what our report calls for is for the next president, to look specifically at how we create new goals and put plans behind them. how we expand assets to early childhood education and ensure that it is high-quality how we ensure that americans competitiveness is advanced by improving the future of our children. the olympics ended a week ago and we wanted the most medals. four years ago, china vetoes by 11 gold medals. that is a sign that the u.s. is getting more focused on quality. but we believe that the competition that really matters is the competition of what happens when children go back to school. this week and over the next two weeks, children are going back to school. this is a call for the next president to go back to school and take us all back to school and improve america's competitiveness by improving the outcomes of our schools and what they deliver. we invite you to be part of that challenge and encourage members of congress and governors of the next president to leave for america's competitiveness and leave for our children. thank you very much for coming and thank you to the center for the next generation for being a terrific partner. >> we are in the countdown to the convention. in six days, gavel to gavel coverage of the republican convention from tampa, florida. your front row seat to the convention. coming up next, supreme court justices from the u.s., canada, and israel, talk about different constitutional systems. then a discussion about women's rights and peacemaking. and the center for american progress releases a report on education and global competitiveness. in tomorrow's "washington journal", we will talk to the heritage foundation's robert rector about welfare is requirement. vanity fair's editor on the business experience of u.s. presidents. and the politics managing editor for the huffington post, amanda merkle. "washington journal" begins live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> this weekend on booktv, getting on sunday at 4:00 p.m. eastern, from his 2010 afterwards interview, mitt romney and juan williams. >> a strong defender of democracy, free trade, free enterprise, those words of apology and those statements, i think, have emboldened those who find this is a weekend enemy. >> later, in the book, the real mitt romney, co-author and investigated unchecked investigative reporter explores the 2002 winter olympics end his tenure at bain capital. part of booktv weekend on c-span2. >> from the american bar association's american meeting, a comparison of the constitutional legal systems of the united states, canada, and israel. it includes a former canadian justice minister. judges sitting on the canadian and israeli supreme court and u.s. supreme court justice, ruth bader ginsburg. this is an hour and a half. [inaudible conversations] >> good afternoon, my name is michael traison. welcome to our discussion on constitutional law in north america and the middle east grid to all of you, welcome on this very auspicious day when we haven't addressed the panel of supreme court justices andembero members of thisations, program. we will say a few words and then get observations and encourage them to interact with onen another in a conversationalal sy style.le posing questions back and forths and then we will take questionsh and answers back and forth withl the audience as well. 3:3 we are working on a schedule to finish at 330, and i think that will work out fine.e at many of the programs we have attended here at this 2012 aba o meeting y in these times win the rule of law is in direct contravention of the rule of power as we have been hearing on the news, even as recently as today. i think it's very appropriate that we take a look at constitutional law as it is in the north american continence and also in israel, and see what these folks here today have to say about what lessons can be learned and how we can apply what we have to help the other countries in the emerging middle east achieve their goals as well. this panel is the kind of panel that doesn't need an introduction. as trite as those words are, they really don't need such an introduction but i would like to mention each one by name, and of course, first of all, we're very honored to have associate justice of the supreme court, ruth bader ginsburg with us today, and next friday will mark the 19th year since you have been appointed to the court. so congratulations on achieving that milestone. [applause] >> to justice ginsburg's left, have the justice of the israeli supreme court. justice ubran is one of 15 justices in the israeli supreme court. the only member of the court who is an israeli arab, israeli christian, and he has many observations to make for us today, as he has done in chicago this year, and we look forward to hearing from him. he was appointed to the bench in the year 2003, but it was in the springtime, i think, when you went to the bench so i call upon you before i call upon justice morris fish who ascended to the bench as the associate justice of the canadian supreme court in that sameee, 2003, but in august. and justice fish, i have to say i was struck in your buying agraph that you started out by naming who your parents are, and i think that's very significant. that told me and all of us a lot about what kind of justice you are as well and we're very pleased to have you here today. [applause] >> another person who is not only well known to us here in chicago but worldwide is professor basunni, an interacknowledge law expert, especially in the area of criminal law. if you combine the books he has personally authored, which are in the 20s, and add to that the books he has edited, we come up with some astounding number in excess of i think almost 75 different books in the legal profession. we owe a great deal to you. welcome. >> thank you. [applause] >> and of course we have with us today the great honor of having irwin coppler. a member of the canadian parliament and also been the attorney general and minister of justice in canada. he has appeared in many courts and is well-norway in north america and israel and elsewhere. and i'm sure he will have many observations to make for us today. one of the reasons we attend the aba program is of course to get our compulsory legal education credits taken care of. but i've gone to this convention for 23 years and it's an inspiring exercise when you get out of the office and there are no more billable hours for those who are commercial lawyers and you hear the kind of things that are going on because of the rule of law, because of our profession. yesterday we saw magnificent program below nuremberg, and saw a form of justice jake -- jackson and it made one proud as a lawyer to hear justice jackson articulate the standards that are so important to us. and it's the same kind of feeling i get when i hear justice jubran. about ten minutes and i'll signal you. >> thank you, michael. good evening for everybody. i try to give you a short overview of the judicial and constitutional of the state of israel. we do not have a israeli constitution until now and it is because of historical reasons and not the time to talk about it today. but the parliament, the kinneset decided to enact laws which are superior to regular laws. in 1992, a constitutional revolution took place in israel when the kinneset inducted law on human dignity and the other is occupational vocationings and those two laws, there was -- the supreme court has the right to overturn those acted by the parliament if they are in the conflict with the basic laws, and in a landmark decision of the supreme court in israel in 1995, a panel of nine judges, the court decide it has the right to have judicial review and overturn laws enacted by the parliament. the first time this decision was given. and until now we do have about 11 basic laws and we are waiting for enacting of two more basic laws. one is human rights basic laws, and the ice social rights basic laws. once the kinnesset enact those laws and govern with those other 11, this will be the constitution of the state of israel. the human rights are, of course, protected by the supreme court. the judicial israel is independent. it is independent both person and material. personal by the way of appointing judgessed. it's a very unique system in our country, where judges are appointed by a recommendation of the committee of nine members. two members of the israeli cabinet, one of them is a minister of justice. two members of the israeli association. this year we expect the members of the israeli bar involved in the appoint of judges in israel. i hope maybe some day in your country you will be more involved. two members of the kinesset, the parliament, and three justices of the supreme court, including the supreme justice, the president of the supreme court. this is a nine-member committee. and five out of the nine are not politicians and this is according to us the right way to select judges, not by politicians. five which are the justices of the supreme court and the two members of the israeli bar association, and the majority is nonpoliticians. and material -- the judicial independence and judges are subject only to the law, not any person or any institute. judicially, we have the principle of separation of powers. the government and the kinnesset mayber vaccine -- and because we do not have a constitution and in order to protect democracy and protect human rights, there should be a judicial review of the supreme court over ruling of the authority of the government and the kinesset, and i think this is the right way to serve the public to give the feeling to the public in israel that somebody is listening to them, and protecting them from the measures taken by the government, by the kinesset. i can say that the supreme court in israel is one of the most busiest courts in the world, because if we compare the number of cases to the supreme court in the u.s. or canada or great britain, all those countries are between 80 and 100 cases every year. we do have about 10,000 cases every year. i'm sure that it's unbelievable but it's a matter of fact. it is because we do not have a court of appeals between the district support the supreme court. we have 8,000 cases every year. 4,000 criminal cases and 4,000 civil cases. another reason of this huge number of cases is that in the supreme court opens its door to everyone claiming regulation of human rights by one of the branches of government. and he may apply directly to supreme court, and not applying to the lower courts. he has from this 2,000 cases every year when citizens come forward, asking for assistance and help against the government leak the kinesset. this is a unique system, but at the same time it is good for us to give the feeling to every citizen in the country that somebody is listening to him. he just deliver the paper, pay the fees and will have his day in court. and when somebody comes to the court and appear before the court, at the end of the day he goes home and tells his friend, you know, today, i appealed before three judges of the supreme court, and they asked me questions, and you know, it's a good feeling to the citizen that he may come the supreme court '. two unique things that we have in our system. we have in our system religious tribunals. it's the only place in the world it exists. we have the court for the jewish community, the sharia court for the muslim community, and we have ten religious court for the christian communities. we have roman catholic, for the greek catholic, the greek orthodox, the modernized catholics, baptists, lutheran, et cetera, et cetera. every community has the right to have its own court, and there is short story about the catholic community, the first in israel. and one day one of the parties appealed the ruling of the local tribunal in israel the court of appeal in beirut and because he cannot cross the border, the court had the session without the parties and gave the ruling back to the parties, and they wanted to review this ruling in the office which is part of the minister of justice in israel. and the other side claimed you can't do that because this ruling was given by a court located in a country that dot not have diplomatic relations with israel. this issue was brought to the supreme court because there's no jurisdiction -- this is very small -- they should come to the supreme court. this is very small short story about very, very sensitive, and to conclude i want to tell you about very important development that took place last april when the minister of justice delivered to the kinesset a preliminary draft of law -- basic law of legislation, which brought -- the first one declared that the kinesset has the right to create a constitution. the second one is that the kinesset abducting the -- adopted the ruling of the supreme court that basic law is superior to other law. and the procedure of enacting basic law is by four-round voting and the fourth round should be 65 members of the parliament, of the kinesset to enact basic law. the fourth one is -- it was given overturning jurisdiction of the laws of the kinesset is to be given to the supreme court and the panel of nine judges. not like the situation today where every court in the country may declare a law which is unconstitutional. and the fifth section, which is the most controversial, is the override section. the first time in israel that this project is to the kinesset. may pass a law which was declared by the supreme court as unconstitutional. the kinesset may pass this law in the majority of 65 members of parliament. for five years, and this term may be extended to unlimited periods of five years. this is a very important development. as i mentioned, we should wait and to know whether it will be a law or not. thank you. >> thank you, justice. one of the questions that we wanted to pose was the sources of law that your court relies upon. i know i've heard you speak about calling upon sharia law, jewish law and so on. can you comment on that? >> the source of the sharia law should be -- used to be the ultimate law because the ultimate law is concept of 400 years. then we have had the british mandate for 30 years. then until the 1980s when a judge -- used to go to the common law while in the 1980s the kinesset enacted the law that in these cases, going back to the common law, you should go to the principles of freedom, equity, and of the israel heritage. it's very interesting, you know. in my rulings, i usually cite many times from the israel heritage as from the koran and the new testament. it's something i do very often, you know. and it's not a problem to me as a christian to decide from the old testament with the israeli heritage. my problem is a computer department at the university. when a judge faces -- they may send a question to this department, and my problem is instead of receiving one answer, i receive 20 answers. and i have to choose the best of them. i think it's -- we use the organize argument, many cite from the -- i cite from the koran, and they say, oh, this is a christian judge quoting with our book. you should compromise. when i citing from the koran, this is an arab judge, it's good for us to go to settle our problems. >> thank you very much. >> may i ask two questions that -- a very interesting talk. one is something new to me, the recent laws of the kinesset -- if the only court which is competent to override a law made by the knesset is the supreme court, the difference in the united states, the constitution is the highest law for every court in the land, from the first instance to the top. and now how will it work when no other court has competence to measure an ordinary law, an executive action, against the basic laws. >> as i mentioned this is judgment. i hope it will not pass in the parliament. if have a feeling. it will pass to this. we will try to find solutions. it's better for us as a society that the supreme court will be above all. and we should wait to see what will do the parliament. >> i have one other question. and it stems from something that a former chief justice of the supreme court of israel said. who said in the united states you have had your 9/11. we in israel have had our 9/11 and 9/12, and so forth. in the country that is constantly in need of security concerns, you said that the israeli supreme court is independent. how have you resisted the pressure to give into security needs and to uphold basic liberties? >> that's a good question, and it's a difficult question. you know, the state exists until now unfortunately in the state of israel as defined by the law, and we as judges usually face many national security cases brought before us. the basic thing that it is -- while dealing with these cases, it's not only we should keep in mind the measure of security concentration. it's one of the consideration, the national security, because the court decided more than one time that even in the national security cases, they should -- the government should not be over the law. the law should be for all of us. and one of the considerations should be the measure of security. and many case, for example, when the palestinians are coming to our courts asking for help, want them to come to israel for work, something to get health treatment, sometimes to come to visit their relatives. then they will not be given this special permission and we look all the circumstances, including the national security reasons, and the relevant -- try to find a compromise with the government to give them this permission to come to israel in spite of the fact there are national security reasons. as i mentioned it's not only this reason. we should take in mind other considerations. >> thank you both for that. justice ginsburg? >> to take a concrete case, the ticking bomb case, was a really splendid judgment of a supreme court of israel. the question was, if the police suspect someone they have arrested of having information about where and when a ticking bomb will go off, can they use, to put it bluntly, torture to distract that information? the answer of the israeli supreme court was torture never. how do you implement that decision? how can we see it to that it is enforced by the security forces? >> actually, we don't have more than our pencil and the paper. we can't followed up what's happening on the ground but the police or by the government. if somebody comes to our court in a specific case concerning this issue, then we have the right to check what's happened in this specific case. generally we can't follow up our rulings. we don't have this power, unfortunately. >> thank you very much. justice fish, canada has a legislative override provision, does it? >> yes, we do, and that's one of the two constitutional innovations, i think, in the charter. the other being a generalized limitation clause, and i can explain that in a minute. we have our override, called -- generally known as the notwithstanding clause. the federal parliament, or the provincial legislature, can in one of its laws in any one of its laws, provide that the law will operate notwithstanding that it is found to be in conflict with the charter of rights and freedoms. the override is -- can last for five years, and be renewed after five years. that may be seen by some as bad news; by others it's good news. the fact of the matter is that the legislative override has practically never been invoked by any government in canada. the federal government has never invoked the notwithstanding close. seven of the ten provinces have never attempted to invoke the override. saskatchewan in a case in 1984-86, you in the, involving back-to-work legislation, had inserted an override clause, but that was unnecessary because the statute was found in any event not to violate the constitution. alberta on one occasion inserted an override in relation to the definition of marriage in 2000. alberta wanted to provide that the common law definition, persons of opposite sex, can alone form a valid marriage. but it was determined that the provinces have no jurisdiction over marriage. it's a federal matter. so, that override was of no consequence either. quebec beck, on the other hand, has invoked the override on a number of occasions. initially immediately after the charter. the legislature of quebec -- the period was lapsed in 1987 and not renewed. there have been four other occasion where quebec has invoked an override. the only one that attracted any attention related to the court' ruling in case -- that held that it was unconstitutional to prohibit any language but french in outdoor commercial advertising. so the response was an override. in short, we're blessed. it has very seldom has the notwithstanding clause been invoked. i mentioned another constitutional innovation and that is generalized limitation clause, which is section 1 of the charter. section 1 provides the charter guarantees all the rights and freedoms set out therein, only to limits as can be justified in a free and democratic society. so the way that clause operates is at follows. if a particular state of law is found to be contrary to our charter, the government can still, under section 1, justify the derogation from a charter principle, the burden would fall to the government essentially the government would have to show first of all that there is a rational link between a pressing state need or security issue or social issue, and -- put it differently. first, there was a pressing need. second, there's a rational link between the progression need and the derogation. and, third, that the derogation is proportional in relation to the effect. it operates on human rights, charter protected rights and freedoms. those two innovations, i think, are important reasons why the canadian constitutional model has had a general appeal in other countries across the world. it provides a middle road. a middle road between those countries where there is no generalized limitation, as in the united states, or maybe specific limitations that evolved over time but not a general limitation. and the european model, which has limitations in respect each right. so, that's one of the attractions, and perhaps i can say a word or two later do you want me to now? there are three -- first, let me preface -- before i give you the reasons, what i am giving you reasons to sustain. i think it is true that the canadian constitutional model has been found to be an attractive model in the last 20 years across the world. i think that justice ginsburg mentioned nat one of her talks abroad. and the reasons, i think, are three-fold. there are generalized reasons and particular reasons. the particular reasons relating to the attraction of the canadian model in a particular national context, and i won't deal with them now but generally speaking there are three reasons. the first is the accessibility of -- well, the second -- i would -- the first is the modernity. unlike the bill of rights, the united states bill of rights, enacted in 1791, and the declaration of human rights, 1789, the canadian charter speaks with a current voice and in a current environment, and i think that is one important reason for its appeal as an operative model. the bill of rights, the declaration of human rights, the magnansrational sources for new bills of rights and new charters, but as an operative model the modernity of the canadian charter is an important factor. second, the canadian charter is accessible. internationally, english is doubtless the language of today. that doesn't explain why it is more accessible in some other english language countries but it does add an element, making the canadian mod al palatable one. it is also accessible from on point of view, in the current era. that is, because of technology today. the world has immediate access to all the decisions of the supreme court of canada. i think as well that canada has a credibility in the international community. canada, i'm told, belongs to more international organizations than any other country in the world. like a good canadian and a good guest, i'll give you four. the fourth reason is that canada has worked hard at exporting its constitutional law. so there are many programs sponsored by the government involving exchanges, bringing foreign constitutionmakers to canada, and sending canadian surist, judges, lawyers, to developing countries, and the countries are developing in terms of their identity and history and countries developing from a newly constitutional point of view, from a new framework. hence, i think the current appeal that has been noticed internationally. >> i think we should make sure that everyone notes of the charter of rights in freedoms is 1982. that's why it's such a modern document. before that there was no judicial review for constitutionality in canada. >> there was -- judicial -- the judicial review -- i'm glad you asked that question. it touches one of my favorite subjects and that is that constitutional litigation in canada prior to 1982 involved almost exclusively the division of powers between the federal parliament and the provinces, and the aspect which i find quixotic and delightful, is that most of the major cases have to do with alcohol. so i've written that alcohol had a startling influence on the canadian constitution. almost as much influence as it had on canada's first prime minister, sir john a. mcdonald, who in a debate with an opponent meant named brown, was accused over being a drunk, and he said he had a feeling from the crowd's reaction that the country preferred sir john a. drunk to georgetown -- george brown sober. the case read like a liquor board document. canadian pacific, the canada temperance federation. consolidated disstillers, a wholly -- a whole list of them. prior to 1982, we -- i would not say that we had no constitutional review -- >> for human rights. >> well, there were cases, few and far between, ron carelli, would be one, which was a case involving a restaurateur who was a jehovah's witnesses and systematically provided bail for witnesses who were being arrested by the provincial police in quebec. the response of the then-attorney general and prime minister was to cancel carellis liquor permit in order to render him incapable of providing bail. the attorney general succeeded in the mission, but was then personally sued, and i'm not sure whether that would qualify as judicial review in the sense in which it is used here, but it certainly resulted in an equally effective and happy ending. the attorney general and prime minister found personally libel, and i think it's fair to say that had a constitutional dimension that i would include in judicial review. >> may i ask about one competence that your court has that the u.s. supreme court declined, the very first supreme court. that is, you can give advisory opinions, and i spouse the most famous one was the secession of quebec. s is that one of a kind or is that invoked fairly often. >> in the almost ten years, i've been there only one in the same-sex marriage case by the then-minister of justice, who should answer for that impudence, what we did in that case to the attorney general's chagrin, publicly expressed, was that the government put three questions to us having to do with whether the federal or provincial parliaments have jurisdiction over the definition of marriage, which solemnization was federal or provincial. it's clearly provincial. and one related to whether anyone could be compelled to perform a marriage contrary to their religious beliefs. for example, could a minister of religion who was opposed to same-sex marriage be compelled to perform a marriage? and the answer to that last was, no. the answer to the first, as i mention earlier, was that it's federal. the government also asked us, justice ginsburg, a fourth question, and that whether the command law definition was constitutional or not. and the court declined to answer that question. and it declined to answer that question for reasons that are set out in the judgment. i should tell you that irwin and i were at a session in cambridge at about that time, where he asked me to explain why. i was taken aback. my response then, and my response now, the answer is in the judgment. >> may i ask you how many times in the last 30 years you called to use power to overturn law of the canadian parliament? >> i don't want to hear myself say too frequently to mention but that would give you an entirely wrong impression. i would say not terribly often, but it's not uncommon. so, i would think in the -- some years, not at all; some years, once or twice. generally, though, it isn't the law but a particular provision of the law that is found not to be justifiable under the limitations clause. so it's not something that happens frequently. we have developed a notion of constitutional dialogue between the supreme court and the parliament of canada, where we take care not to reform late or restructure laws when we find them to be contrary to the charter. but, rather to leave it to parliament -- parliament is better equipped than we for modified law by reading in or reading out. we do it but very rarely. parliament has the staff and process to hold public hearings to understand what alternatives to the legislation which we find unconstitutional, ought to be adopted, and so we have called that dialogue. we say, sorry, and go back to the drawing board. it happens. it doesn't happen all that often. >> can you give your opinion, before the law was passed by the parliament. >> only privately. but as justice ginsburg mentioned, it happens, not often, we will be asked our opinion of a proposed statute, but that does not happen often. as i mentioned. unlike the french courts. we cannot -- we are not asked in advance. there is a mechanism -- >> only one constitutionality. >> yes. that's absolutely correct, and i thank you for taking me up on that. >> it's not really a court. >> i think the court -- i think that the -- in the last couple of years, someone will correct me if i'm wrong -- you will correct me if i'm wrong -- and it will be a privilege to be corrected by you rather than by my colleagues who think it an opportunity they find it difficult to resist. as of a few years can, i think, entertain the question and make it -- that's not the preliminary opinion. you're perfectly right. i stand corrected. >> just one footnote to what you said. i think that the canadian supreme court nowdays is cited more than the u.s. supreme court by constitutional courts abroad but i think we have to give great detroit a great surist injurist to kellson who was responsible for the constitution of 1920 and for the institution of their constitutional court which game the model for the post world war ii constitutional courts in europe. he was a great jurist and the united states was a beneficiary len he had to flee his own country. >> before we leave the bench, i wanted to pose a question. in some community there's an aversion to citing law that has other origin than that particular jurisdiction, whether it's citing to court decisions from other countries or some religious law. what would you say is the situation, as in canada. how often are you citing to the laws of other nations? >> well, we do not share the aversion of some justices in some courts. however, personally, although i do tend to cite other courts, i always do so, i hope, with care. judges have to be very careful in applying the laws of another jurisdiction which have a different background, a different rationale, a different enforcement apparatus, and so on. so, the short, yes, we do cite foreign sources. we're not averse to doing that. and we're young enough to learn from our elders. >> thank you very much. >> the time to ask the relationship between the u.s. supreme court and international law. >> international law is, of course, part of our law but that was said by the great chief justice john marshal and it must be applied unless a statute is in conflict with it. we have to make a sharp distinction between international law, which is part of our law, we are a nation, world of nations. and foreign law. that is, the laws -- a decision of the supreme court of israel, by the supreme court of canada, they are not the law of the united states but we can look to their attempts to wrestle with problems that we face, too. not in any sense binding as precedent but for the per swayssive argument on the -- per -- persuasive argument. there's an article containing comments written by chief -- by justices, starting with chief justice hughes, of their views on the utility of references to comparative law, and i think you can count a majority of the current supreme court members who are not averse to looking beyond our borders. >> if you permit me, on the subject of looking to what other courts decide, americans are not onlylett litigious but have wonderful courts at the federal and state level. and so we can have a criminal law issue -- or a constitutional issue. case of patrick is a good for example. a few years ago, where the issue was a person who puts out their garbage insuring that case happened to contain drug paraphernalia -- gives up, regular length wishes an expectation of privacy. that issue came up in canada for the first time in that case, and i had a law clerk look at the american experience and there were 42 cases. so it's not with a view to considering those precedents at all, but to looking at how the court wrestled with similar problems. the expectation of privacy is a fundamental barometer in the u.s. and canada, and so from that point of view, it's often helpful to look elsewhere. even for domestic law. >> thank you very much. professor, perhaps you can give us your observations after having heard the justices. >> thank you very much. every legal system in the world is derived from what a famous french jurist referred to as the family of legal systems. we have multiple family of legal systems which have evolved in the course of time and have inspired different national legal systems. consequently there is a historical continuity for the most part between the origin in the legal system from which the national system came from and how it has evolved. justice referred to the applicability of different religious law sources to different religious communities, and this is called the melat system under the turk ottoman empire, and the -- in turn, the melat system has its origin in 637, when the second caliph of islam came to jerusalem and declare that all religious communities would administer their own religious sites and own communities, and in fact it was on that occasion that the law passed by the romans in 70a.d. on the expulsion of the jews war rescinded and jews started to return to jerusalem. so you see an historic continuity newt from 637 to the contemporary application of it and without really, if you will, concern or discomfort by an israeli society, which is predominantly jewish, and israeli supreme court of saying, you know what, if you're armenian you can apply armenian law to your matters of personal real estate and it doesn't take anything away from the predominantly jewish character of the rest of the nation. and so in a sense, you can see, if you will, in that aspect of legal history a total acceptance of diversity and a total acceptance of the coexistence of diversity in a broader framework. on the other hand, we do find that there is an extraordinary commonality in which many legal systems, including international law, refer to as general principles, and here i come back to canada. i had the privilege of being selected by the minister of justice to be the chief legal expert for the canada government in a case called sympka. this was the only case in canada in 1987 where the canadian government applied the law -- i believe 1983 -- which allowed the canadian government to prosecute a person who had committed, among others, crimes against humanity, during world war ii. and the big question was, was this a retroactive law which violated the chart center and the drafters of the law were very astute and called it retrospective but not retroactive and said, well in order to find it applicable, you must find that the crime in question was a crime under international law at the time it was committed. that it was a crime in canada as well. and so i find myself with the task of trying to prove that crimes against humanity existed before nuremberg because mr. finta in 1944, deported 6,217 jews from the district of segid, in the infamous trains to auschwitz and other slave labor camps. well, the charter of the imt was not established, so i resorted to general principles, and i went to the number of countries in the world that existed then there are -- there were 74 -- and i look at their criminal codes. where the specifics listed in article 60 of the mit charter on crimes against humanity contained in those criminal laws? and sure enough, every one of these laws contained the crime of murder, manslaughter, deportation, and so on. and so i prepared the huge chart with an expert opinion from each country showing that as a general principle of law it existed everywhere, and therefore, it could be positive law without being positive in the sense of being written, and that, of course, was consummate with the command law which was not necessarily written law. so, again, you can look at the idea of general principles of law as inspiring an understanding of what certain moral and social values in a given society mean, not only by reference to the local community terms but in reference to its global terms if you accept the fact of wanting to be part of a global society. now, my most extraordinary experience in my almost 48 years teaching, was in 1965. the american bar association's past president established an organization called world peace for law, and they had their first convention in 1965 in washington, dc. it was a big reception. i'd been teaching for a year. met the chief justice of the supreme court of colorado, who was particularly impressed with the fact that i spoke six languages. the next day, live speakers throughout all of the washington hilton, professor, would you urgently report to the desk. i went running, quite troubled and surprised. to find charlie rhine, and said is it true you speak six languages? i said,ey. he said, tell me what are they, i said arabic and french italian. that's good enough, comp with me. and he drags me on and we took an escalator like here, went to the basement, and here was a huge room with 56 chief justices and justice of supreme court of the world, with the late chief justice earl warren in the middle. to his right was the chief justice of the supreme court of saudi arabia, who had never said that he didn't speak english, and he didn't. across from him was the chief justice of the supreme court of france, who would never admit to not speaking english. [laughter] >> and next to him was the chief justice of the supreme court of italy, who was never asked if he spoke english. and so i was introduced very briefly, asked to draw a chair behind and between the chief justice and the saudi justice and i acted as an interpreter. well, this developed a personal friendship, and i had the great honor of being an aide or assistant to chief justiceway for the next five years, traveled with him to major conferences of justices of supreme courts. and at these meetings, as i know some of these meetings still continue at yale and other venues -- there was a very open exchange of -- as a little bit what we were seeing here, how do you deal with the expectation of privacy? is the garbage unanimous your done -- garbage can in your country part of it or isn't? in a number of years thereafter, if you look at decisions of courts very wide apart, constitutional court of south africa, house of lords, canadian supreme court, others, you can see references to decisions by the united states supreme court. you could see references to courts of other countries. you could see citations to authors of other countries. you will forgive me if i say that but i think -- i'm among the few who have the honor to have been cited six times by the israeli supreme court. now, for somebody who is of arab origin and a muslim, i take that as being quite a badge of pride. it also demonstrates the intellectual openness of the court. ... world war ii, the declaration of human rights in 1948, the company do need team 63. and i thought a ring some numbers to your attention. we have 198 countries in the world. 191 countries have written constitutions. 163 countries have adopted these constitutions between 1965 and 212. now, this is very important because the international covenant on civil and politicall rights of the 160th parties through the economic and social cultural rights has 160167 state countries. the convention, convention, thea 193 countries. racial discrimination is 175. the discrimination against women is 187. you start comparing the tax with the contents of these international conventions. and you no longer see a correlation. is the almost exact fixed it from the cabinets into the national constitution. now implicit in that is a process of harmonization of constitutions, which in turn is the process that the interpretation at the national level in fact on the national level. the contingent is there is a process of harmonization through the importation of international human rights, international constitution that seeps in through national law, seeps into the application or the ports itself unnecessarily if you will invite comparisons and borrowing from one to the other. >> and how many other countries is their constitutional guarantees of human rights, aspirational rather than law to be applied? >> that is a very subjective judgment because when you look at the texts themselves, the tax do not make a very sharp distinction in that respect. it's when you look at the application on it that you start seeing the distinction between. >> i did have one question about the diversity, recognition to control matter for a family of thought. but one of the sizable population of people who are not affiliated with a particular phase. i think that in modern time there are more of those seen in ancient days. >> yes, they would be subject to the conflict approach. there'd be subject to whatever national access, assuming the national laws has been farsighted enough to devise an alternative system to those who do not want to be bound by the religious system or the religious community. >> the interesting thing here, how do phase out in islam. >> e-mail, you have an exclusive exclusive -- you have the parallel inheritance case, when both of the partners can go. and we have also a parallel eviction in the tradition of poverty and cat does, far between. but in this case, the first call , it is the absurd side for the position will be the religious one. and they have the right to tears the religious without the convention of the law. and in spite of that, it was in specific civil cases, the court should give a quality to women according to the civil law, which is not given according to religion. in the supreme court case more to women. >> only a man can give it a voice and a women receive it. >> yes, this is a situation and i can see that things will be changing. according to jewish law, the man should give the divorce to -- if there is a problem, we have a specific case. i think 40 years ago. in one case, the husband refused to get the divorce and you once said in jail for 30 years until he says yes, you know. last night and when he died, his wife insisted to attend the sooner i'll. she would testify because she said i want to see hugh under the ground. [laughter] >> thank you very much. >> welcome were several references to one of canada's most appreciated while the mistress of justice and attorney general. maybe you know what they are referring to. joubran, can you give us a little bit? >> this is a comparative constitutional moment. this is a 30th anniversary of the canadian chart, which is how to transplant and make a revolutionary impact not only a modest, but on a diet. it's the 20th anniversary of the israeli basic laws on human rights, known in israel as the constitutional revolution, which drew upon our charter of rights and freedoms. i hope he won't drawn us for the override because that is where the impetus came for that. it is the 50th anniversary of the south african constitution, which in turn is strong in the canadian charter. i was there recently appeared in south africa we had a discussion on the canadian and south african bill of rights. and i noted when i was overseas at the time, you never hear about canada when you are overseas. but this time i did in the reference to some name with justice ginsburg was quoted at that time in cairo when asked about the united states constitution serving as a model indicated that she thought the south african constitution can be in rights and freedoms might serve us better models for constitution making in part because some of the justice mentioned regarding maternity and the like. the person that rice is and why is the charter of rights transformative and revolutionary? taken away from a comparative context, just in terms of canada, one has to appreciate that if you look at canadian troops chartered bought come up rechartered by sandlot and i'm really oversimplifying, but for purposes of time, there are two things that i think emerge. first is a history of social discrimination particularly against people send in fact benefactress even institutionalized as law. are referring to discrimination against aboriginal people, women disabled and the like. the second thing was that legal history of discrimination. and in fact, there was an absence of any constitutional right to a quality, and absence of any constitutional protection against discrimination and absence of any constitutional remedies. in fact, and this links up with lois mentioned committee look at the 115 years of -- don't worry, we'll take a tour come from 1867 to 1982, you will see there is a preoccupation with the division of power between the federal government, otherwise known as the power process or leave her as journalism come unconverted limitations and the exercise of power, whether federal or provincial, otherwise known as civil liberties. so whenever a civil liberties issue came before the court, the question was which of the two jurisdictions, federal or provincial has authority over the subject that are quite but i think the former chief justice of the supreme court put it best when he said that the real question is, what should the two levels of government have the power to work the injustice and not have the injustice itself could be prevented. i do want to suggest there were no protections. their predictions of common law, principles on expression. there were statutory exceptions, but there were no come as i said, constitutional rights and remedies. all of that change with the advent of the canadian charter. indeed on the 10th anniversary of the charter, former chief justice of the supreme court, antonio lemaire spoken rather firms with a revolutionary act comparable to the discovery of the metric system and the discoveries of pastor in science. now, even allowing for rhetorical ucs invited judge, he was not wrong in terms of its revolutionary impact. another justice at the supreme court in power terms set five years after the charter was enacted at the supreme court of canada has stretched the course of liberty more in five years than the supreme court of the united states had done in 200 years, i can't allowing for search and enthusiasm in the rhetoric. there was some reference here to certain precedents. for example, constitutionalizing affirmative-action in our charter or constitutionalizing the equal rights amendment and gender equality. let me conclude by just making reference to what i've written about elsewhere. and that is the canadian charter of rights and freedoms is a revolution in five acts. and i will give one-liners almost on each of the acts by way of that may suggest why in a recent article in the new york university of journal and long canada was referred to as a constitutional superpower in comparative terms. the first is the actual act of adoption of the charter was transformative and that we miss her being a parliamentary democracy to be in a constitutional democracy. the judiciary and the attribute arbiters of legal federalism, which they still are to be a guarantors of human rights, not because he served up our come about because parliament gave them that power. individuals and groups that a panoply of rights and remedies, which were hitherto inconceivable and nonjusticiable charters. so that's the first act. the second act was the revolutionary dimension of the involvement of civil society. the charter of rights they have is not the charter of rights proposed the government. the charter of rights that was kind formed as a result of representation and submissions made in what was called the year of the constitution, 81 to 82 were hundreds of individuals and groups came before a joint house-senate committee on the constitution and literally transformed every provision of the canadian charter of rights and freedoms, including the section one, to which justice fish referred and i make reference to specific provisions from other jurisdictions come international, human rights and the like that became part of our charter. the third revolutionary act had to do with the international law to canadian constitution and charter law. in two respects. one, our charter of rights was drafted with international covenants in subsections drawn from those international companies. and influenced by the global human rights movement, which led a former chief justice dickson to say they should look in international law as having a relevant and persuasive application and being a relevant authority and application for freedom. international law and merges. just to contrast empirically. we had only one case in the history of canadian constitutional law or international law was cited before the charter. the application in its first volumes cited 40 cases. in the second edition of his book cited 400 cases. by the time there were simply too many cases. there is the revolutionary component. for further judgments that principles by the courts themselves to the same-sex marriage. it is instructive here to note that there were unanimous decisions from nine provinces in the territories regarding same-sex legislation as to affirm in its constitutionality. it was giving the advisory about how same-sex marriage legislation not only comport added with the charter of rights, but would otherwise be absent be a breach of the charter of rights and freedoms. the important thing to realize is in pre-charter like you wouldn't have even had standing to breathe the issue before the court, but allowed the issues become justiciable before the court and i have almost every court on provincial jurisdictions unanimously affirming constitutionality of same-sex legislation. the final part of the revolution has to do with the role of the minister of justice and attorney general. i had an occasion is my first job to serve as to the then minister of justice from 1968 to 72. i think the transformation wrought by the charter in the role of the minister of justice and attorney general. simply put i can conclude number one the responsibility of the minister of attorney general that every prospective law or regulation coming for it to any department or a the to see. it is called the good housekeeping constitution approval. second, if any extradition with regard to ensure that they comports with the charter. so the wrongful conviction, he can, minister of justice and determination set of characters of justice and rob of conviction , the charter has dropped a dramatic transformation on that whole case. finally an amount of criminal prosecutions, we ensure every criminal prosecution, the prosecution comports with the charter. that means making full disclosure. at this time you are a minister had three positions. one minister of justice, to attorney general and these are two separate positions in the united states. and attorney general amnon minister of justice. and also the chief prosecutor. i felt that this was a little overreaching and so happily we were able to outsource at least the role of the chief prosecutor by the time i turned in. it can cause a certain conflict in the grounds of the minister of justice is a sitting member of the government and bound by cabinet solidarity on a particular issue. on the other hand, in role as attorney general, he or she has to get independent constitutional advice. it may not always follow the advice, so you have a situation where the government and cabinet announces the decision, which could be embarrassing to the minister of justice if he or she is getting contrary constitutional advice and otherwise capacity as attorney general. >> thank you, justice ginsburg before the questions out? >> i think we should have not too much time last. i was the whatever time we might have to the audience. >> well, we can't have a question that the story from politics or any pending decisions before course, but there is a microphone over there if anyone is interested in posing the question. i think we want -- i think c-span would like you to use a microphone. >> my name is sammy atoll coming from beirut, lebanon, the other side of the plan. i have two questions. you mentioned about the case of a speaker, present team and appeal in lebanon. in this case was not in israel because there is no relations. in my view that we have a bad of matter nights in israel envious except good that the relevant of israel. and he can give to approve that the case is appealing. they can appeal to the vatican. do you see that there is an impeachment to make an appeal to the appeal court in lebanon? >> well, maybe i was misunderstood because according to the israeli, all religious are enforced and the execution for the state of israel. it is not done like that, with the supreme court rejected the case. it was respect it in israel enforced by the minister of justice. it was responsible for the enforcement of the state of israel. >> so my second question. >> i know -- [inaudible] and now we have a new one coming to my city -- [inaudible] >> i know that. >> my second question. you mentioned we have around 100,000 files -- >> 10,000. 10,000. >> so what does the number being quite >> 10,000, we are all doing well. we are working very hard. sometimes seven in the morning until 9:00 every day of the week. but we feel well, we don't complain. >> but she said and panels. >> sometimes in a very important case says there's a right for the president to enlarge the number at two judges. but usually we set with authority judges only. >> if you have to set with all 15 of you in every case, you cannot handle 10,000. >> well, we have reached our time, justice ginsburg, one more time if you'd like to have anything at all. >> perhaps picking up on a comment on something in egypt. i refilled the u.s. constitution that was way ahead of its time. remember the founding fathers were natural right thinkers and that's why they didn't put into the constitution itself what came four years later in the bill of rights. they thought people at rights by virtue of existing and there was a fear about writing down those rice. but we have come to think about rights differently nowadays. and i get the south african constitution at the model in this respect. article number one is human rights. so the human rights not at the end of the bill of rights, but the very fewest article and you could see the structure of government it says to uphold and implement those rice. purdue is certainly not intended to distract, distract and anyway from the u.s. constitution, which i carry around in my pocket wherever i examined the world. >> thank you very much. thank you offered being here and to our >> i'm not in the habit of writing my promises to my country and the various governor perry. when we tell you were going to change washington and stop believing our country's problems for some like year generation fix, you can count on it. [applause] with a record of doing just that. and the strain, experience, judgment and back bone to keep our word to you. [applause] >> u.s. to one by one inside and out to the tip passed. you understand that in a city election the same old politics at the same old players and expect a different result. you have shown what history teaches us. defining moments like this one, the change we need doesn't come from washington. change comes to washington. [applause] >> after an human rights act to vess, kati marton a nobel peace prize winner, leymah gbowee and sad time for goldman sachs but the discussion of women as peacemakers posted by dan ince institute and the rooseveltelt t institute. this is an hour and 15 minutes.. >> the executive dirt and tracey marshall who puts together theo production of these wonderful weekend programs.th i am ln chessplayer, the partnef organization in this enterpriseh now havinga our third summer ofd programming. under programming. i guess we are becoming in east hampton institution. i want to thank our underwriters. [applause] are the sponsors, but our family and the tub group and if local agent and then many of you and others who are not here on this gorgeous day, who has been faithful underwriters and sponsors and fellows of the program for three years. i want to think specifically who i gather us in the audience, donald molin of goldman sachs to help secure a wonderful speaker, dina powell and my good friend, abby disney who made the wonderful movie, pray that doubles back to how, about -- [applause] -- leymah gbowee in the situation in liberia, which you will hear about and it helped introduce me to leymah and bring her here today. just a rigorous about the roosevelt institute. we're up on time partner of the roosevelt museum in hyde park. the mission over the last many years has been to a source as roosevelt legacy come it's fabulous exhibitions that they are. we have a new extraordinary park opening up on roosevelt island, the president of which a member of our board is here today and we hope you all come out to see this exquisite monument to roosevelt, which will open october 18th and is the only work in new york after of the great architect louis khan. it's been 40 years in development since the early 70s and is really exquisite. some of you that on the east and the art e-mail on the southern tip of roosevelt island. in recent years, the roosevelt institute has decided to create freedom centers of wedge i am fortunate to be a senior fellow that is creating a robust conversation across this country , specifically in economics, created a deal for the 21st century. an extraordinary campus network in 200 campuses across the country. we are now expanding our reach and specifically to begin a human rights legacy. so today, our program helps launch a program called women rising that the roosevelt institute, which is about the very conversation you are fortunate to hear. the ways in which investment than women are agents of democracy or formalizing of women's work is bringing in securing peace and prosperity in so many countries in the world. it is my pleasure to have the opportunity to introduce my dear friend, kati marton coming to see bush and best-selling author but also a longtime human rights activist who will in turn introduced the panel. kati come as you know are many of you know is an extraordinary memoir of growing up in hungry after world war ii and the experience of her parents, enemies of the people. it is a book you can't put down. her new book come about to come out in the two weeks as the story of her marriage and the loss of ambassador richard holbrooke. i just one of those previews and it is another must read you blog build a put down. i hope you all go buy it. unfortunately, it is not in the body because the publication date is two weeks. hence i know you all enjoy reading it. it is a special occasion for me to have this conversation because eleanor roosevelt really has is the founder of the human rights movement. went to the united nations is america's representative to the human rights commission, wrote and in that conversation, and made specific reference to the rights of women and the need to secure the rights of women long before there was really the robust conversation, even in the united states we now have. it was eleanor roosevelt understood that human rights must begin in small places close to home without the been there, they have no meaning anywhere. she encouraged people all over the world to engage in a conversation about advancing the rights of women long before it was fashionable. but we are going to your about how that conversation is going and how it is changing the world in this wonderful program this morning. so kati

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