Transcripts For CSPAN2 BOOK TV 20170102

Barack obamas presidency. All things are possible. If the dream of our founders questioned the power of ourof democracy, tonight is your answer. [cheering] if the answer told by the lines that stretch around schools ande churches. Suppose that are rich and poor, democrat and republican, black, white, hispanic, asian, native american, street, disabled, not pp disabled, americans send a message to the world that we have never been just a collection of individuals with a collection of red states and blue states we always have beene and will be the United States of america. [applause] [cheering] an estimated 250,000 gathering at chicagos grant park on the unusual mild tonight marking what could be the start of eight years in the white house for the 44th president prepares to leave historians begin to assess theo obama legacy. The three leading authors adding their perspective to the newanad terms in the white house. We are joined at the table with april ryan, my upclose view of the presidency and race for america. How is still in slaves and David Maraniss barack obama for story. Thank you for being with us on the tv. David maraniss, i want to begin with you. If he were to write the first paragraph of the presidency, what would include . Ten to guest the Election Night address by then president obama to think about the promise of whats happened since, i think the only things you can say for certain on what that would include are that he was the first black president , he took office at the time when the country was in a deep recession. Its extending health care to the millions of americans, but thats like many other parts of his program are uncertain because of whats happened inw the last election. And it if you look at it 50 years from now it might be quite different. It might be that he was the first of many africanamericans, women who become president from then on independent takes on ann even no more importance from the political perspective. Books takbut take a look at k which came out at the start of the presidency and you wrote the following. You said he came ou out of an uncommon family scattered and broken although the parts could never be fit neatly together. How did he figure it out, how did he create a life that made it possible for his own . T out. Teaneck he spent years trying to figure it out when he left from the furthest place possible. It was an introspective trying to deal with the contradictions coming from a broken family. He spent those eight years from the time he got there from the time he left for harvard laweft School Pretty introspectively trying to figure it out, which he did for better or worse unlike most human beings i would call them the integratedat personality, ancoming in secondh selfconfidence and not a need for people that is common among politicians. The lack of a need for other human information is not. And the selfconfidence to the presidency and the lack of the need for the politics i think in various times got him in trouble but it was an internal effortre entirely. Alks abo host your book talks aboutut his father. What did you learn about him, his father and the relationship and how that may have affected his own thinking and career . Ti guest the memoir dreams of my father really set it off in an interesting direction. It was the joy of trying to figure that out. His father was brilliant in the very deep resonance voice with barack obama and i would never underestimate that sort of genetic inheritance in terms of the appeal. His father was an alcoholic and was a man that had aspect of success but failed at the end at an early age. And i think that barack obama spent that period that im talking about you and then later when he went to try to find out more about his father dealing with what it meant and who he was. His father was part of that in a traditional sense, barack obama could be called an africanamerican. He is african and american. Somewhat different. Growing up in hawaii he didnt have many black friends. It was a multicultural place. They studied africanAmerican History and then tried to search for his father. Host we want to talk about the issue of race and what your wrote about in your book. How do you answer the question beyond the issue of race is legacy the past eight years. Guest you cannot take breaks away from the president in the United States of america. We talk about a society before barack obama became president , a postracial society. In these days before the transition of power, we will announce postobama. We dont have a postracial america. That all became clear once this man became presidency. They put a spotlight on all then ills for the better and for the worst. We didnt think that was a big deal but it was a big deal because that individual, we thought about this more so at the Democratic Convention whenwn we saw Hillary Clinton came out on the stage and we saw the picture of every white male president and then you stop at number 44. At that visual was impacting and then you see the chance of Hillary Clinton breaking the Glass Ceiling but to stop there changes the dynamic in a lot ofr ways because the things people believe that africanamericans are now seen on videotape and its not missing the context or more. People talk about it before. But when you have a black man from a kenyan daddy and a whiter son. Ive been profile. My father, my brother. And now we have this piece with the kneejerk reaction to present it at the First Press Conference in each room talk about henry louis gates. That was after the win for the ages, criminal justice. In the Trayvon Martin, and then when you had the issue of accountability, that was amazing. Because now were saying people are bold enough to take these videos. Some things are not necessarily the way, going the way we would like them, but theres still the accountability piece. Without that now, if that were to go away, where are we . If they start suppressing, if the Justice Department says i dont want to deal with that, lets go by what the police say, communities, the black community is all for supporting great policing but weeding out the bad policing. That is one part i can say wholeheartedly for the barack Obama Administration, that reaction led to this accountability where you have white people buying in to criminal Justice Reform and buying into yes yes, its not ms and conjecture anymore. Like lies matters matters. Theres a Mass Movement for criminal justice at the forefront that pushing it. The first administration, one thing, the organizing that happened around the death of mike brown in ferguson, the murder of eric garner, we can go down the line, jones, down the line and we can begin to talk him and the Mass Mobilization of everyday ordinary folks in the street pushed this administration spirit they need to learn to leverage spirit i think barack obama the organized would agree completely that he needs to be pushed. He would agree needs be pushed by professor glaude on all these issues. But you have to acknowledge that its counterfactual that you dont know what wouldve happened if you tried to get universal health care in the first term. What he had been defeated . Did he get this to open the way so that even donald trump and Republican Congress cannot fully rescind the entire package and from now and more people would be covered . All of those are open to debate, but when people like you are necessary, i mean, from either side to push to do more and to be the best they can be a spec David Maraniss, the author of current income associate editor at the washington post. His work also includes first in his class, a biography of bill clinton. Once in a great city, a detroit story and heading down to that of the where you will be teaching for the next couple of months. Guest i do it every other year for one semester. I teach a course on political biography at this time of teaching on the mccarthy era, which thats my next book and i started it before that with the echoes that we now sort of here. Host and eddie glaude, author of tranthirteen, teaching africanamerican studies and religion at Princeton University and april ryan for the last two decades, white escrow spun for american urban radio and author of your new book at mamas and knees. We will talk about that in a moment. Our phone lines open. 202 7488201 for those of you out west follow us on twitter at a booktv. On facebook at facebook. Com a booktv and you can also email us, booktv at cspan. Org. David maraniss, a political question. When you look at the reagan legacy mini pointed Party Election of George Herbert walker bush in 1980 as part of that legacy. How did the defeat of Hillary Clinton affect the people will view the obama legacy . Guest i think it will have a large effect on it. I think that first of all thats what barack obama was so important hillary get elected because the policies, policies, particularly healthcare but in every possible way i think when you talk about education or policing or the clintons in the early era did not have a good record on some of those issues, hillary had changed enough that i think she wouldve extended his policies, and in some places perhaps including immigration push them even further. So in the short market depends of course on whether President Trump is president for four years or eight years and what happens after that, but i think that solidifying what obama accomplished is very important that hillary get elected. Host lets talk about guns. He said what of the darkest days of his tenure in the white house, the shooting that took place at sandy hook elementary school. Then there was this moment at the mother e Immanuel Church in charleston, South Carolina, following the shooting in 2015. Heres president obama. Amazing grace. Amazing grace. Theamazing grace [applause] how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me i once was lost but now i am found was blind but now i see host from june 2015, your thoughts . Guest that was an important moment, an important moment for the country. It was an important moment for his presidency i believe. But for me as a scholar of africanamerican religion i stood in a critical relation to it. I thought the speech or the eulogy was a bit confused. What does grace had to do with what were doing . Race is extended irrespective of our choices and actions. And second, in that moment, that moment of going to amazing grace, a former slave who is repenting slaving, what does have have to do with those people in the conference . Part of what i was thinking at the moment is it actually real the distance going to your word, david. The distance between him and his africanamerican tradition that goes back to slavery because in that moment most preachers wouldve reached for precious lord, take my hand, lead me on, help me stand. Im tired, im worn, im weary. So part of what i was seeing in that moment was an attempt to stand in a tradition, right, at a tradition, it the way when he was genuinely trying to console. But what was revealed in the moment, at least for me as a scholar of africanamerican religion, was a distance. Host David Maraniss, did this just happened . Once this plant and advance . Advanced . Whats the back story . Guest he had thought about on the way down there, and talked to some of his staff and his wife about it. Most said dont do it. Some didnt say anything, so it wasnt just spontaneous, but it was the decision he made at the moment to do it. As someone who is not a religious scholar i was incredibly moved by it, and i think a lot of people were. I totally understand your intellectual and even racial context of choosing precious lord instead. But it had, i thought it had a very powerful effect, and was one of them in my opinion, one of of the most moving moments of his presidency. I was in london on the book tour promoting my book. I made it a point to be in my room to watch that. And it was amazing to me. On going back to what david said, yes, he told his staff that it was impromptu. He would make the decision once there. Im not a scholar, a biblical scholar, but i am but i am a member of the black church and have been. I know many people who are on that day is to include bishop, i can sitting right next to him. They welcomed it. That day was a moment of momentous praise and also a coming together, id unify for this country after seeing a racist go into that church out watch and pray. Thats where grace comes in. Gods grace is efficient. After this we can still come together. So thats what grace comes in. He also worked with josh dubois, his former head of his faithbased initiatives. They worked on it by president obama really penned that. It was assumed except for text but it was about grace. Thats the only thing, he couldve opened the doors to the church really, but that moment was impactful because look at the lead up to that friday when it happened. You had Reince Priebus and head of governor South Carolina talk about taking down Confederate Flag after years of people wanting that thing that was racist. After dyla dealing with them whe did. President obama that money talked about the nword in the garage of this guy who is a great twitter following because he wanted to show that this nation still is hypersensitive when it comes to that was a ability that day. I was very moving and spiritual base not just for president obama is something that really changed his legacy to a certain extent, but it was also a unification for us because we are a people who believe in a higher being and that was a moment for all of us to come together. For someone, a racist to go into a black church, a Historic Black Church and watch the break about the love of god and then shoot them down and then let one stay so you can say what something is wrong. Host David Maraniss, you wrote a great book about detroit and as you look back not only at barack obama stages in the white house but really the last 1525 years americas inner cities and some the problems, detroit really epitomized, what is his legacy and what are the challenges facing the new President Donald Trump who really campaigned on making America Great again, hoping cities like detroit . Guest if he just took a narrow range of detroit, obama, one step he took was entrance of the Auto Industry and panicked out that industry, a key moment which had a larger ramification in terms of when detroit was facing bankruptcy, he did not come in and save the city. That was a political choice. He did do some things behind the scenes of most people dont know about. He sent an entire staff from the Treasury Department to work just in detroit. He located them there and you spent a lot of time dealing with detroits light, the trouble with housing and other issues blight pick it was sort of underneath the radar but i think the larger thread is that ever since Lyndon Johnsons great society, america politically has turned away from its inner cities. And thats been something thats been going on now for more than 40 years. And so in this campaigned you didnt have much at all about the problems of the cities of america, of urban issues. And i think that barack obama in some ways, in terms of, like his answer to april sort of explained it. He was saying we have to do with everything, the cities as well, or the struggling black population. But i dont think that he did the direct action that might have more effect. Host of course there is flipped michigan which is an economic issue issue, a race is, and infrastructure issue. A moral issue. And he drank the water. The symbolism of singing amazing grace, the symbolism of saying Trayvon Martin couldve been me, all of that has to be measured against the actual consequence of the policies that follow from. Barack obama grab a glass of water and drink it. And the water is still potent today. It still painted today. And he bears responsibility for that symbolic act. He shouldnt have drank the water. Its not healthy to drink. No, no, no. For the children in flint today no, no, no. [talking over each other] its a small piece of a bigger issue. It was a spontaneous act because those people are there and he said he stood by them. Im not trying to justify what he did what he said im with you. They put a glass of water, if you would not of taken the water, what would it said two people watching that day . And what it said the water is not safe. Its not safe for me, its not safe with his children. Its not safe for these children who now have elevated lead poison. He hugged to someone with ebola. If these children to drink it, ill drink it too. An interesting argument you raise. It is. Look, i just want to be very, very clear. Im not trying to just simply everything president obama has been and will do is bet. The part of what i wanted is move out of this kind of understanding of barack obama as this kind of symbolically significant figure who dump that in and of itself represents an achievement that blocks the way to a critical spirit but he was acting as president of United States spit if you talk to mike moore and folks on the ground in flint they found the act of drinking water, not just an act of solidarity but an act to limit undermining the effort. Thats the first thing. Im just saying, if you talk to folks on the ground in transeven, organizes, talk to organize on the great about from justice, even though you get some of the stuff, talk to organizes on the ground. Theres an much more critical orientation to barack obama spirit but its not as complex as youre making it up it was not as design plan for him to but what is different to drink the water was to he did know the water was going to be there and he drank the water. Thats all there was to it and he, that, i know you dont think its true but ask a lot and you know, i will get to the bottom of it but the water wasnt there. What if he did that drink the water gauge is a drank it in solidarity as president of United States spirit what if he didnt drink it . Guest its not safe for me, s not safe for this baby. Im going to bring in the army corps of engineers and spirit those kids drinking the water, their brains are having you have lead going into a brain, this can be a lost generation. Others [talking over each other] spirit lets host 202 7488200 for those in east and central time zones and 202 7488201 for those of you in the mountain and specific time zones. Three hours. Three authors, cleveland, ohio. Thank you for being patient. Go ahead, please. Call back a few comments if i may. Host certainly. Caller i like mr. Obama was very thoughtful reflective approach to most things, and i consider that he had a very good demeanor, a very nice temper, and i admire that. Two things i didnt admire was when that representative joe wilson called out to him, you lie, at the Congress Meeting when the president was talking about the healthcare matter. The other thing i didnt like was when the gop leader, senator mcconnell, said that his top goal was to make mr. Obama a oneterm president. Host thank you for the question. Guest i agree with the caller that obama does have a good disposition and demeanor and hes an intelligent man, a rational thinker and is, often in an irrational world. I was a quite clear he was trying whether the caller was trying to say prez obama should have responded more harshly to those two actions, in terms of being called a liar and a state of the address. You dont want to get into a shouting match in there. I think president obama is, a larger thing is he is a very cool individual and there are a lot of times when he appears either sort of behind never quite at it. Hes either hea ahead of it or behind it. People are frustrated by that. He doesnt always react immediately to whats going on. From my perspective hes trying to look at where the traps are ahead of him mostly. Thats the way his mind works. Host drink that state of Union Address when joe wilson wagged his finger and said you liked the topic of a moment was that for him as president . Guest i think it represented the entire effort of a Major Political party, the Republican Party to completely delegitimize a president of United States. I think from Mitch Mcconnell statement from that and onward it was an eight year effort to delegitimize this effort. Host a tweet from edward who says 6 69 statehouses and 99 now headed by the gop am adding progressives are not progressive enough. Guest ive always said republicans go for the jugular, and we saw what happened this election. I mean you know, not progressive enough i guess. I dont know. You say not progressive enough, im looking at how they react and also get at the issue of politics. When it comes to politics i believe Bernie Sanders tried to help get hillary to be more progressive after they had the fight to forget who was going to be the head of the ticket. He actually brought her a litte bit more to the left, but it wasnt good enough. When it comes to fighting and fighting against the gop, Hillary Clinton wanted to take the high road, i guess. Vice president obama did, along with the house situation and they always look to others to fight their battles. I said this the other day, the president is the moon, and the moon doesnt bark at the dog. You let other people fight your battles and he has to be president ial in those moments and remain president ial spirit part of what we had to do and assessing president obama the legacy with regards to the Democratic Party is look at what is happened down ballot. Look at what is happened in terms of states competence of gubernatorial houses, state legislators. Your newspaper is reporting on this. An oped a couple years ago talking about what was happening downstream. Why didnt president obama replace that it was mentioned earlier . What would happen when they wouldnt hand over the email list . What would that mean downstream for the Democratic Party. What weve seen is over a thousand seats have been lost over this period of leadership vacuum where the leadership is seven and above. And so the idea, for me i would say this if you have a choice between republican of people act like a republican, oftentimes you choose a republican. So the dlc, the strategy of the Democratic Party to trying to make itself into this court has resulted in i think the email el that suggested that more progressive agenda, that actually reflected what every organ in every americans and think and hold, then perhaps we could break through. Host lets go to norfork virginia. Mark, youre next. Go ahead, please. Caller yes,. Caller yes, good afternoon. Enjoying this edit think professor glaude is 100 on point. Especially about the michigan water. I cant believe that your other two panelists cant see what he is saying. Is that if you go to michigan and hes got more into on the situation and anyone else watching the tv or who was president at that press conference, it wasnt to go to try to capitulate to say look, im drinking the water, so you should drink it. The fact of the matter is that the water was insufficient for any human consumption. And so his visit really shouldve been about what im going to do specifically in a very emergency type fashion to make sure that the water is corrected, not only in transeven, but across the nation. And so i agree with professor glaude. Edit think if we continue to try to play nice with racist that a being honest, will be just on a treadmill. Host mark, thank you. Guest theres a distinction between a symbolic act of drinking the water and what professor glaude said he shouldve said instead. I think i sort of agree with you he should have said that. I think that, ive always tried to explain it politically that it think he thought if he didnt drink the water it would be viewed in the same symbolic way as president George H W Bush not knowing what the price of milk was. That sort of thing, thats all. But the statement of what he shouldve said i think with all the great. You have to remember they are pouring millions of dollars to fix, millions of dollars, congressional members are upset. Democrats are screening. They want more money to go into places like flint and working on the problem and remembering going back and thin thank you fe question, going back to the glass water. Those glasses that were there that day, the water was filtered. It doesnt excuse the problem but again that was symbolism but the issue is fixing the problem. The gridlock in washington, the gridlock in the state of michigan, the gridlock is the problem and the needs to be help right now for all those people speak symbols cannot obscure the actual i am with you on that but i i dont want to even belabor the point of the water. Lets talk about the action. Host you already about race and this president. The book to marcus simplot, explain the premise behind this book and why you wrote it. Guest i wrote it trying to account for this moment when were talking about as coming out of this economic recession of 2008 when i looked around my community. I saw devastation. What did me for people to say that we had turned an economic corner when lack folk around the country were still struggling with unemployment comes to struggle with the fact that losing jones and entered a brutal rental market . On a regular basis engaging this ritual of their and their children who had been killed at the hands of police. I wanted to think about this and so i offered an account, and account the weight beyond just simply kind of racial kumbaya moment but begin to think about something a part of the country. We talked about the empathy gap, the wealth gap, each even get. What i argue in the book is there something much more fundamental in the training and thats the value gap. Society is orders of leaf white People Matter more. Host april ryan, the presidency in black and white and now your new book, the premise behind these two books . Guest women are now increasing the head of household, the sole provider. The typical issue in the blackcomb would be the talk from a father to son. Now it is being transposed into the mother giving a talk to the children. Its a necessary issue right now from others and its not just a book from black mothers. Its a book that i talk to many people to include the mother of eric gardner, sabrina fulton, also president barack obama talk to me about his mother and how his mother talked to him about race. President carter, Hillary Clinton, so we people many people and aisles of valerie jarrett, talking about First Lady Michelle Obama and just how black women are very important that we are lost in society almost invisible, and how they have gone for walks. You have the first late hates to be in the bubble and she will walk out on the bubble and just go for walks and no one recognizes is a beautiful, tall, statuesque women. Shes invisible. And you cannot ignore someone who looks like that. No baseball cap, no makeup but shes invisible. This book goes into the heart of the matter what comes to women in the household and mothers. And what mothers influence and how they tell their children about race. Host David Maraniss, congratulations on the pulitzer. The premise behind the biography, the early years and a childhood years and the genealogy of barack obama. Guest there were two things i wanted to do in this book and first one was to explore the world that created barack obama. Unlike any president in American History he is a creation of the world. So all of those forces, not just from kenya and kansas, but his years in indonesia, probably the most colorful moment in my reporting was when i stood in jakarta and the little neighborhood where barry obama lived when he was six years old, not knowing the language, going to the public school, fighting with the kids of their who thought he might of been from a Distant Island of indonesia. You know, listening to all the sounds and smells of that place and realizing that this little boy became president of United States. That was an overwhelming moment for me. So thats the first part of the book is this incredible that created him. And the second part is how he created himself. How we found himself it of course his memoir is about that to some degree. Theres a difference between memoir and biography. What is literature and won his attempt at real history. The real story is somewhat different from his story but he was riding it from one perspective of trying to understand himself through the lens of race, which is of course a central part of the story but not the entire story. So those are the two things. The world that created him and how he created himself. Host lets go to gym in king george, virginia. Welcome to booktv and in depth. Caller well, thanks. Host are you with us . Try one more time for jim. We mightve lost the call. Let me go back to when you wrote entering transfer my father because he talked about being a Community Organizer. In Chapter Seven he said that change will not come from the top. Change will come from a mobilize grassroots. That really wasnt the premise oof his campaign to defeat Hillary Clinton, which many people now forget how significant that was because she was at the front runner leading and the 2008 campaign. Guest theres a certain contradiction certain contradiction in that statement involving barack obama. After those years as a kindred organizer he came to conclusion that he needed to get to the top to create the change. That is oh so much he could if pushing himself on the southside chicago. Hes always us at that connotation as part of his political nature. Whether its defined negatively and ladin leading from you whici think a misnomer. I really came out of his organizing a yes as you said, you have to have the movement push you, but he went to Harvard Law School with the understanding that for him to really affect the change he had to get somewhere larger than being an organizer. Host is an exit from dreams from my father come in the audio release from november of 2004, barack obama began to think about his own campaign in 2008 and released his bestselling book for years earlier. Its very clear to me that theres a direct line between the subject matter thats contained in dreams from my father and the type of politics that i aspire to. Because essentially what this story is about is a boy born to a father from kenya and a mother from kansas in hawaii with an unusual name, who travel to indonesia, came back, found himself in chicago working in some of the lowest income neighborhoods in the country, and then traveled back to africa. Africa. And somehow was able to weave together a workable meaning for his life as an africanamerican, as an american, and as somebody who is part of the broader human family. And that was not an easy task. It wasnt an easy task, not because i did not not have some enormous love my family, i did. It wasnt because i didnt have people helping me every step of the way. I had that help. But it was because i found myself born astride a nation and the world that is so often divided, divided along lines of race, divided along lines of class, divided along the lines of religion. And so we have this enormous tragic history that all of us confront, from whatever our backgrounds are. Whether we are white, black, hispanic, asian. , asian. Whether we are muslim, mac or christian the notion that, in fact, in the words of a great writer who happen to win a nobel prize, william faulkner, he said the past is never dead and buried. It isnt even passed. Host barack obama talking about his book. Again comes in november of 2004. Yet just. He had just been elected to the u. S. Senate. Four years later it would become our 44th president. Guest and he also delivered the speech at the Democratic National convention that same year which really propelled into the national light. When i was researching the book i found some letters that barack obama wrote at a much earlier age which are taken at the same thing. In a somewhat more poignant way where he talked about about, hea columbia and is talking about looking at all of the different people that he knew in his life, whether there were white kids he knew at occidental or africanamericans at columbia, his friends from pakistan and singapore. He said they all knew, they all had a specific sort of channel for the life, and he knew exactly where they were going to go and what they thought. They were secure in that knowledge. For him to just accept himself, to try to embrace it all come at the notion of trying to embrace the doll is really what defined president obama, what defined barack obama as a candidate, but we define him forever, for better or whether they succeed or edit or failed at it. Host david frum denver, you are next. Go ahead, please. Caller good morning. Really enjoying this and so happy to have a chance to participate in this and David Maraniss, i read your book on the summer olympics in 1960 at rome. Is also one of the first audiobooks i listened to. So i want to piggyback on the first caller who, one of the points he made was the republican resistance. And i dont know if commentators or historians are emphasizing the fact that for eight years the republicans refuse to help president obama govern. And the political skills president obama have to demonstrate in order to get elected again in 2012, despite the fact that the republicans had refused to cooperate on the legislative agenda. And i think we are seeing the results of that went a trump could come and say your government doesnt work for you, when the republicans were to blame for that obstruction. And i just dont know if im hearing in your comments the effect that played on president obama is ability to govern, and yet the political skills and to demonstrate in order to last eight years. Guest thats a great point. You have to acknowledge the obstructionism of the Republican Party. I think its important to think about what president obama couldve done in the face of it. So 2010, the Democratic Party gets, the floor was wiped with n the. So they lose the house, the majority that in the house and in the senate, the congress flips and, of course, the context of this is the astroturf movement called the tea party, as well as a range of other factors. I think he shouldve gone big at that moment. At this point he plays is a freeze on raises for public employees. He starts doing things in order to his some way at pease and a Republican Congress. This in the name of something he was committed to. This in a postpartisanship when in fact the gesture was extreme partisanship on the part of Republican Party. In that moment we talk about a republican extraction is done which we must, but also his complacency. Host i dont believe he was necessarily a complicit. I asked the questions of why he didnt go biggest love with senior staffers. Theres a lot of things he couldve done by executive order and he chose not to. At the same time, they were talking about all the executive orders and they didnt have nearly the amount but also going back to the really basic go into the very basic peace. Going back to the very basic piece of what we see now. I believe going back to the collar about the change in how people want something new. I believe barack obama was on the cusp of this nation saying we dont want washington. We want someone new. Yeah, he was a black man who had experience, but he was something totally new. He had not been in washington that london people gravitated to him. I believe thats what we are seeing. It is totally not washington, totally not governance at all. Hes taking a business approach to social problems about these other problems. I believe we are now at a point it wasnt obama, but well see what happens and how the nation respond because theres a loud collie is not qualified to know as well. You probably will not hear him talking and someone screaming you like. That weve never heard any president been guessers acted like that ever. David marinus, the caller also talked about your book on the 1968 how many books have you written by the way . Guest 11. Seven larger book spends more fall or one. Well, the way president obama responded after 2010 is exactly the way president clinton responded in a team 94 after the republicans took office. There is sort of the clintonian politics. After two years, president obama was not ready to give up on his own rhetoric of the nobel states pleased it. That had a lot to do with the way he reacted to the next two years. Trying to see if there was still the possibility of some, even in the face of the republican hostility, if there is some way to deal with something larger and not grand bargain with john boehner, which is never going to happen. I think thats why he did it. Host this is from records as ive read several books on his background, the president s background. A dirty understand why youre such antiamerican worldviews. He was more in common with europeans come into nations and elites living in a bubble than ordinary americans. My guess this will not be central to this production. Please ask them what books did he read. I would be very interested. Antiamerican views . Have them please respond. Host go to jade and colorado. Keep those coming. Go ahead, please. Hi, happy new year. I have two facts i would like to stay. I would like to ask what your opinion is. One mans bit eight u. S. Code section 11 about payments for slave trade. And i would like to bring out the free expand act of 1996. In that particular act, there is section four car allotment, housing, all of these things have been headed. I want to know, and to think its incompetence from the president on down and im back where do you think its just latent racism and just oppression from this government offices to hide this information from this recipient from the black sewers of suffering. Let me just say this and then ill take your opinion on it. I have four cases and the post office and i cant get the prosecutor to press charges on this person. Several other cases. It is just blatant racism. What is a person to do when you have the government, the workers and all of them working against you. You cant get into courts. Okay, we look at a response. I cant speak to the various sections and maxim articles are talking about, and that i do know when there is an effort to swing the ax, budgetary wise, food subsidy programs. All of those programs on the chopping table in the department of agriculture. I know you have people like the Congressional Black Caucus and the congressional has been a caucus who are fighting to make sure those are funded and funded abundantly to support those who fall through the cracks. I would suggest that you reach out to your state or federal leaders as well. On the issue of reparations, i believe that is what you are going to. I may get in trouble for this, but this nation was built on the backs of slaves could wealth in this nation was built on the backs of slaves. People talk about preparation. Constant bills introduced are conversations about it. We have yet to see that. It goes down a slippery slope and i talked about in my first vote. Many people joke with me. I asked president bill clinton at the time about im an apology for slavery. You may remember that. I was in my first book. President bill clinton when he was sitting president had a dinner with black journalists and i was one of those that helped organize that dinner. And i asked why he did not apologize for slavery. He sent them in poignant. He said because black people cant come together. If there was an apology for slavery, people say its a slippery slope because how do you do about reparations . How would reparations be dispersed . These are issues still be entered about in washington. I asked the question. We know president obama has ideas about reparations and piece in the atlantic and a section in which president obama talks about the fact that its not politically feasible. What we do know beyond the question of reparations and how we might parse with that, we know that since 1980 there has been a systematic attack on the social safety net in this country and that systematic attacks and spread the shift in what Public Policy aimed at the most vulnerable becoming a policy becoming black. My colleague has written wonderful work about what happens in the face of poverty becomes black and certain kinds of entitlement programs are red. Theres a way way in which we see in the context of the democratic administration. Since 1980, an attempt come and attack on the social safety net. Whether its welfare reform with president clinton or whether in the midst of a deal with republicans, president obama signing off on undermining or reducing food and, we see the politics of our particular moment suggest, to my mind is nice, but no concern for the most vulnerable. Can i say one thing . I just thought of this. One of the paradox that this election and campaign was that maybe it started to shed that vision of poverty to the right people that a bit even though theres no indication in any way that the republicans who now control are going to deal with white or black. Nonetheless, you saw this rise of poor white voting republican and why they felt neglected for so long. And that to some degree mightve shifted position a little bit. But i dont know to what end. Is a bit of irony was asked about appalachia. You know the story that people in the appellation love the Affordable Care act, that they dont like obamacare. It is the same exact thing. They had to switch or router name is crazy. Are you reading the treats in advance . Dallas next is going to get your reaction to it. Can the panel speak on the Affordable Care act . It is 2009 fight from a botched rollout in 2014. The rate hikes that led to the democratic 2016. Different legacy for obama if it wasnt an Affordable Care act. Different legacy. It was a large part for all of its faults. So when you look beyond not, probably the most important and cannot or he was elected as getting out of the recession. But that is the one thats hardest to explain to see what wouldve happened had he not done that. But i think that coming in now, in terms of the rollout, it was a disaster but thats not the important part. When i finally took the fact, my view is that it can be improved. And so you shouldnt just look at what it is, but what it could be and whether it will be rescinded or be changed. But it was the first step that no other president has been able to take forever. So i got to that point. Emeritus, author of barack obama transfixed. April ran his book includes presidency in black and white and now at my mistake, mothers and race in black and white. And the author of democracy in black, however he still is that the american soul. Vicky is joining us from sandusky, ohio. Go ahead, please. Hi, first of all. Thank you so much to cspan. Dont forget cspan 3. Forgive me if. For me it has been a tool to be able to Pay Attention to our Government Action in the part of the problem is more people arent doing that, watching our government in action and what is going on taking place from the white house down. I want to echo sentiments of the gentleman in colorado. The last eight years have been nothing but extraction is done. They talk recently about lameduck session and this being a lame duck president. Its been a lame duck years and my personal opinion. I dont even know where to begin. We talk about discrimination in this country. Some pretend like it doesnt exist. I will say that this country was built upon not only slavery, but also discrimination of the indigenous tribes on the backs of many immigrants that came to this country, my family included, working tirelessly and still coming into this country illegally. The state has been doing a lot of gerrymandering coming around. Tried as hard as they possibly can to take our right, access to birth control, whatever it may be. Go into this year koch is, hopeful because of something we have to have. I want to say thank you very much for your time and what you do. I will read these books. Thank you for joining the conversation. Youre shaking your head. Shes ready. You know, i grew up at a time where we talk about slavery, but its real and we dont really talk about why we have the device, a generational divide that stop from of this country. When you Start Talking about it, people say you cant get over it. You dont tell groups to get over it. She is absolutely right. Native americans have an issue and they still need help. Bill clinton talked about that as well. Africanamericans. Until you deal with this issue, you will have a clashing of people and we are, i guess they came on in hamilton, we are the united divided states because of these rules have yet to heal. They keep trying to put bandaids over it and its not going to happen. Incurious in the classroom, has there been a question or comment with regard to the Obama Presidency that has given you pause to question . This past master i taught a seminar. So we read note published in 1955 to the evidence that this became, extraordinarily powerful book. It was an interesting kind of journey to read aldrin during this election cycle. I think there was a sense in which my student were constantly asking of obama and and at the moment, and they kind of for the presence of witness in the presence of courage, trying to demand something more of the political process, more than what president obama suggested that you have to leverage and move into these domains coming change in the seat of power, trying to only figure out what does that mean for us to be crapping in 2017 today with the same issues that jimmy was grappling with in 1955. Is that the subject of your next book . My next book will be 1963 1972. Host what are you preparing for in terms of talking about this president in the last eight years and what questions you might get from students. Well, barack obama is just one small part of a larger course on political biography ranging from robert caros works on and a job then to the branch on Martin Luther king. But i dont know what ill get about barack obama. I honestly dont. I know that these students are very engaged and not sort of moral question in a way that i think that this generation is underestimated, underappreciated and not moral underpinning of the students ive undercovered. You quote in your new book, the art of the moral universe is long, but it does tend towards justice. It ran those words. Ultimately in the end it does. That would have been. Think of this. Think about the history of this country. Think about the civil rights movement, the most successful movement in this nation that everyone is taking for womens Rights Groups to the lgbt community, to the immigration community. But think about this. When he was marching, only 4 of the black church supported him. It took white people to see the injustice and die in places like bloody sunday to Say Something is wrong. Its a Civil Rights Act to happen and then the Voting Rights effort. They had to go make lbj. So the bottom line is the fact that he told him to do this. So thats the thing. I thought this and is so important. The day after the election, christopher, the o. J. Simpson prosecutor said on face but, this is in a time of activism. I thought that quite frankly. And i heard bob johnson. Bob johnson who is a democrat said its time for us to find Common Ground as well. But then the farmer had at the naacp and a former member of congress that we are at a crossroad. So the art is long, but justice will ultimately prevail. But there has to be activism with that. Host toledo, ohio. Go ahead, please. Of wondering if theyve read the warrant for having the donald. The high rate of out of wedlock birth, but she does have the first place. Im wondering what you think of this. Answer the call. Im familiar with it and i dont think much about it. I find the arguments suspicious of mental positions. Often times we try to get these sorts of claims kind of legitimacy by addressing them. What we do know with out of wedlock is declining and to make the kind of argument between family constitution and criminal behavior is silly. Again, much of these sorts of claims. I want to say this clearly come to begin with the assumption that the black people whove been killed at the hands of police deserve to die. I reject the premise that it can. So the idea is to find some kind of reason whether its coming from her or Rudy Giuliani or whether its coming from certain bluebloods matter, the idea to suggest that if this is something to warrant their deaths, whether it is they are lazy, come from broken homes, a nature prone to criminality, something about them is the reason why they are in the grave. I disagree with that claim from the beginning. I agree with you there. Cafe, welcome to the program. Thank you for watching the tv. Hello. Professor, and a big fan. Senior several times been interviewed by amy goodman on democracy now this past year. They were so many of your views than i am in agreement with im voting and i just thank you for your intelligence and your gift of sharing how things should run, what questions should be asked, iraq did this them. Thank you for many, many points of view that youve given me personally. This statement as president obama gave me hope and change and that that would have been any really instilled that in me and i was so excited to vote for him the first time. Once he got in, i felt that he almost immediately fit in with the status quo for the establishment, whatever you want to call it. I was so discouraged not the most significant changes i expected, such as the Bank Failures and i didnt see any of these gangsters as they call them go to jail. That was a big, big letdown for me. He continues to drone warfare and bombings seven plus countries and i dont understand why we are still so heavily involved with to meet the murder of innocent people. Ascender comments, who did you vote for last november . Guest i voted for dr. Joel stein in 2012 and again since Bernie Sanders didnt get the nomination. I voted for dr. Jill stein in 2012 because he let me down. Host is how you phrase the obama legacy from your standpoint . You that you don . Guest caller he let me down the change would occur. Host before barack obama came on the scene there was a lot of activism on the ground that had everything to do with resisting the iraq war. Before that there is the activism of seattle. So then barack obama jumped in front of this extraordinary solid activist energy and because the object of it. In some ways the green screen it. He says this in the audacity of hope. We made an antiwar president. They made him the progressive savior. When he gets in office come in some ways the energy gets to be mobilized and has to find itself. What a weekend when it finally arrives in the white house . Guest the rules have changed. When we went into iraq, george w. Bush took us into iraq. Were fighting in afghanistan. But that was about al qaeda. That was about wmd, all that stuff. But now we are in a different phase. We have a new type of terrorism and terrorists out there. First it was al qaeda. Now it is isis. These are two different groups. So what do you do . You allow them to go into countries and takedown to democracy, it causes a problem. There is a nation that will breed terrorism. Thats not the rationale for syria. If much of our complicated than that. You have to have a Foreign Policy that reflects a series of democratic commitments that go all the way down. No boots on the ground. It is a policy of assassination. Whether he is the first but resident or not, we need to describe we are d. O. China money. Then we dont want to put our people in harms way. We dont buy boots on the ground. With the other recourse to stop rogue activity. The callers point is really interesting to me because i called rob obama in this hope and change. Its a harsh judgment. But there is a sense that he got into office, its like intellivision where you can put behind anything you want. And it turned out to just be an extension of clinton and some. And a lot of ways, folks were deeply and profoundly disappointed and betrayed. The energy to manifest itself by talking to grassroots organizers across the country. Everything you say is dont look at the words, look at the action. So they will look at obamas words before hes running for president , but who he was before that. It would not have been a surprise. Is that it explicitly. The antiwar speech, he was very clear that he wasnt against the war. Remember, this is the same guy given the nobel peace prize. Irony of all ironies. Wind or a obama for president , we were seeing gas prices up 4 a gallon. We were going into recession. I remember asking george w. Bush in the rose garden about recession when James Clyburn did and managed heap. We were going into recession. They were other things going on. Barack obama came in and said we want to change it. You do not change things in washington. Things do not change. People looked at him as a savior. Tim geithner. A whole host of refinance to come in and they were response well for the financial crisis in so many ways that lead to the collapse. The last 20 years to have the same kind of people. Again, you dont change so much in washington. To come in and appoint treasury is to say to folks at that moment does business as usual. Clinic. The make of your prime example for today we will see january 20th, donald trump jump in on hillary but about wall street. Who do see a point . Theres not much change. Over the last 20 years with same wall street. Whether its obama impartially, yes. Thank you to David Marinus joining us as well. Lets go to the next caller. Caller hello, thank you. Currently cspans coverage of the United Kingdom this week. It has given me a lot of insight into how different their governments are. The children were they used, ages 11 to 18 were elected by constituents to represent them annually in the parliament were they debated different issues and decided on an issue to cover for the year, something they would like to manage. Would that be a possibility in our country u. S. A. . Stay on the line because i want to have the father but. I want to segue into something barack obama told Rolling Stone and get your reaction. David maraniss, because he was asked about the donald trump of his. Sitting behind the desk is sobering. The most important constraint on any president of the American People themselves of an informed citizenry active and participating in addition that will be something i will in my own modest rates continue to encourage to do the rest of my life. Mobilizing, getting people involved with what she saw. Stay on the line. Look at your reaction. James thought about trying to do at the u. K. Is doing in the u. S. First of all, in terms of u. K. , whatever hours you showed the Prime Minister debating the parliament, that is so fascinating because there is a rhetoric and a sense, but it is so real. They talk about real issues in the various civic way they can never here, sorry to say, during the debate cspan covers in the house of representatives, which is all. Roderick and nothing real. And really enjoyed the way british give more to the point letters to congress or the Prime Minister. In terms of president obamas action, i hope he does revert to its organizer a days and keep pushing. My fear based on what ive seen in the last year is a trend towards authoritarianism in the United States senate very important for people to push against that. Host jane, do it to follow up . Guest yes, i do. When i president was elected, and is they are theres been so many challenges for the country. Is there some name that is possibly realized in his children, would this be some pain that he could stand to watch his kids go through this politics such a dirty business that we dont want our kids involved . Thank you. He has made the statement that Michelle Obama will never run Public Office. I think she will never run for Public Office that i believe she doesnt have time. She has seen what is happening to her husband and how theyve run through the mud with his attempt good or bad. One thing about her is that she is someone who is raw. She is real and you can tell it is from the heart. That is what people are looking forward. Someone who really sees the problems and speaks truth to power. Unfortunately shes got some special shoes there. I dont know about the kids. Host normally a malia and sasha . My son was 12 years old and now hes a junior at brown. So hes come of age politically with the black family in the white house in this, page. So his political signs has been shaped by this uniquely complicated moment and it has shaped the way he engages the political process. What we do now when we look at the exit data around the general election, millennial broken particular sorts of ways, which suggests when they first started noting that will suggest the pattern of their voting behavior for decades to come. So id rank pair of, act did come in changing things on the ground in local areas. They are fighting and thinking about the black youth project, thinking about the organizing going on in North Carolina and i am an alum of the ymca Youth Legislature program are they used to bring us in the state of mississippi to the capital for three days and we would legislate. I was the first vikings governor in the state of mississippi. We let in the Blue Mountain with other kids who participated in Youth Legislature in which common talk about governance and politics. I dont know if that is still going on, but we do know in the hinterlands of the United States folks are thinking about politics. Post code David Maraniss in an interview with David Axelrod in a podcast released last month that he was confident had he run for a third term, he would have won. It is the constitution the biggest obstacles like Michelle Obama with permit him from seeking a third term. T. Think he wouldve won a third term if the constitution allowed it . For all the ways you can critique president obama for his failure to bring the democratic trading into the larger realm in states and in congress, yeah, i think he wouldve won. The Obama Coalition was there at hilary confounded. Host howard in bend, oregon. Go ahead, please. Yes, im enjoying your show about the ticket back to David Maraniss spoke. It was just a terrific book. I read it i think about five or six years ago, so a lot of it is a lot of it isnt fresh in my mind anymore. The impression i got was that iraq was really not thinking of himself very much as a black man. His days at columbia and it wasnt until he went to chicago became a Community Organizer that he really got involved in the black culture and of course that is where he met michelle and married michelle. One of the questions i had was that they read in the book somewhere that baracks mother, im not sure when she died exactly, that she had some of her actions. She had hoped that barack would not marry a black woman. Am i correct . Guest she died right when he was about to get into the political life. Now, that is not in my book. I dont think she had any objections to him marrying a black woman at all. I think she was encouraging him to find that part of himself. I think a somewhat misinterpreted. Its not that he wasnt thinking about being a black man. Thats all he was thinking about, but he was still trying to find a tunnel. My book is really a search for home and he finally found it on the south side of chicago with the show later. The first in terms of organizing with these wonderful older africanamerican women who embraced him and make them feel at home for the first time. When you say you come home in chicago, not only did he find home, but i believe Michelle Obama is one of the reasons hes president of the united date because of the connection she was able to afford the then aspiring Barack Hussein obama. Statement is one that its purely political. Guest he loves her. You can see that there appeared whats to come together you know which other strands. Spinnaker at washington in condemning of chicago, house significant was he . Guest that is one of the reasons barack obama decided to go to chicago because chicago at that point seemed like the place to be because the africanamerican mayor who had them of the same vision as barack obama. He was elected with a lot of white folks as well in chicago. It was a place of hope. Interestingly, barack obama arrived in chicago the same time basically Oprah Winfrey and Michael Jordan arrived in chicago. It was really kind of the place for africanamericans might at that point. And so Harold Washington was a very important part of that. Once obama got to chicago, he saw this incredible Racial Division between the city council and mayor washington and that is why he decided to go to springfield and run for city council which is a much more powerful position to wouldve gotten trapped in the racial politics of the moment. This is a sidebar question, but an interesting photograph in your book. Where was this taken and why did you include it . That was scratched into the cement in honolulu when barack obama was a junior in high school. It was sort of it is sort of Poetic License here. That couldve been the only brandon of this guy. But it isnt because of what happened later. Host is still there today . Guest still there today. Host david mayor ness, we are midway through our three hour conversation. Were going to take a short break and come back with more of your calls and questions as we continue here at cspans twos twos cspan 2s in depth. The pain that run throughout culture of corruption is theres a massive gap between the Obama Administrations rhetoric and the reality. I am not arguing that influence peddlers and power broker should be outlawed somehow. Everybodys got to make a living. The point is team obama came here as high horse at the divers being to washington to change the way they do business. And yet they have people like leon panetta who parlay an entire career as a government or event into massive private wealth. Youve got people who came from the Hedge Fund Industry stuart and blurs. These are all the prototypes that barack obama condemned and Michelle Obama for that matter. And yet, they fully embrace them in their administration and dont seem to acknowledge hypocrisy there. The effects of president obamas ruinous policies are now coming to light. What weve done i think i may think your presence here is a testament to that is that weve begun a national reappraisal of whats happened. Again, sure. A time in 19 months. For many of us, seeing it unfold is not really surprising, right . Its happening exactly as they expect to do but. Despite the fact that the elites on the left and the right and many of them misjudges ideally pedigree and a catchy speech in a less catchy for executive leadership ability. The fact of the matter is we elected a man as president who was woefully illprepared, unqualified and inexperienced. [applause] why are we applauding that . I want to remind all of you that the president s professional resume consisted a sickly of a little more than handing out leaflets on chicago street corners and organizing the occasional anticapitalist merge. And no, i do not count the short stint as a constitutional law lecturer or his unremarkable drive died in the Illinois State senate and the u. S. Senate. No, no, no. Youve got to do more than that to be president of the United States. You just really doesnt stand for the same things that grassroots americans stand our, which is why they have raised up spontaneously throughout the country of them protested in a peaceful fashion. This is not just about the economy. Its not just about the fact that theres a lot of unemployment. Its about what he is doing, what is threatening to do, nationalizing health care, capandtrade, immigration reform. All of these are radical measures unlike weve ever seen in the history of our country. Its not just a pendulum swing back republicans throw out and go back and a democrat. Weve seen en masse, unbridled, unchecked liberalism for the first time in a long time. Both chambers of commerce, the way cows and they are doing things that are horrifying people. Thats my position and they make you see that in the country. Kind of ironic that barack obama munichs public appearances come to cross as the likable outgoing of the guy. We can see again and again that his likability quotient far outrun his polling numbers in job approval. So he still liked person in public. But that is his performance we are talking about is a public figure. In terms of his actual working in the government toward the governance of this country, and again and again i learned from republicans and democrats that he doesnt have the skill set that Lyndon Johnson not for instance who understood how to manipulate power in washington or Ronald Reagan who would get together at the end of the day with tip oneill, democratic speaker of the house, have a drink with him, reminisce, tell jokes and then start working out how to get a bill passed. Barack obama doesnt seem to know how to do that. He in fact in private is a very introverted person who doesnt reach out via on a group of chicago operatives whom hes brought with him to the white house. When i got the idea for the brief against obama, and said hey, whats the worst thing president obama has done . For what up of course. I just made a list. People call up and say hes no friend of israel. He left that yahoo in the base at. Or it didnt help the iranian revolution. That came up a lot. Unemployment is at such and such a rate as such and such a time. I just made up on this and i had a list of more than 50 suggestions. I whittled it down to 24 the 25th cap your is a summary chapter. Let me repeat the table of contents. Im not going to go through each of these because after all you need to buy the book. The nightmare of obamacare. A failed stimulus. Stimulus to point out. The biggest spendthrift in history. That is true by the way. The Committee Organizer who collapsed housing. Selling the roles of the unemployed, soaring gas prices and read energy scams. The doddfrank had fake. The fast and furious debacle and cover it. The president s attack on cap, congress and the constitution. Standing by is iranian side abandoning israel, howling out of the american military, reset and the button, it during border security, bowing to china, ignoring North Koreans ignoring North Koreans, naivete in the arab spring, gitmo and the trials and terrors. Hyper partisanship of a chicago ward healer. Unilateralism of an anticonstitutional president , the founder and finis teleprompter dependent and finally, in a number of rounds of golf he has played followed by the decline in despair rhetoric. Its a pretty good list. When you look on the International Scene, you see some extremely troubling developments that are read as serious. Obama says we have to prevent genocide and to use this force against libya. The number of People Killed by gadhafi at that point was about 250. Meanwhile, over a period of many months, tens of thousands of people have been killed in the area and upon absolutely refuses to use force. What explains why he intervenes with force over here but not over there . Obama has been very active in egypt and pushing mubarak out of power. Not only that, but now that there is a power struggle going on between the military and the Muslim Brotherhood, the Obama Administration is intervening on the side of the Muslim Brotherhood. Obama has won the egyptian military, you better turn over power to the Muslim Brotherhood or we are going to cut off military aid. Obama can say im a champion of democracy. These people were freely elected. And yet, a year earlier in 2009 when there are massive demonstration in iran calling for a comment the end of the mullahs, free elections, obama but they refused to support the democrats. Is said weve got to say i did this. We will let them settle it. They are basically been at the protesters than not that bad. In gaza and . Leaving a security in an area where were running guns to syria through turkey in an area where the New York Times reported the year before the entire time was grand by all sharia. Surprise surprise is behind the terrorist attack with three other americans. Whos responsible for that . Other clinton is responsible for that. She shouldnt be worried about whether she goes to the white house pitches should be worried about whether she goes to the big house. Unfortunately, we have an attorney general who would never prosecute anyone for these violations because he too is a criminal guilty of involuntary manslaughter. He led the program. Turns out that you might think that running guns to mexican drug cartels with no tags in them, by the way. There were no optronics monitor sundays guns. It is widely known inside atf when you run guns to mexican drug cartels, the only place they will show up to figure out where they where is the crime scenes as it is explicitly not. You might think thats reckless. You might think that may result in homicide that the killing of a Border Patrol agent perhaps. You might be the head of the doj and if youre involved in this, youre probably promoted because nobody was optimal for fast and furious has gone to jail. And nobodys really even been fired. How about violation of Internal Revenue laws . If you write to leverage, we would be put in jail. Thats a violation of the Internal Revenue code itself for people who are following. Its also a violation for politicians and politically motivated bureaucrats to get involved in a violation of the hatch act. The hatch act or this bureaucrats from getting involved in political situations like this in targeting political opponents. Its a violation of law. But its a phony scandal according to the president of the United States. And depth on booktv continues in here at our table in washington d. C. , april ryan, author of presidency in black and white, white house correspondent. Eddie glaude, his latest book, democracy and black. And David Maraniss, has written 11 books. One of them, transfixed. The tone and tenor of the critics barack obama has faced we heard him a moment ago. They dont function that the loyal opposition. It seems what weve witnessed over the last eight years of folks who are committed to their ideological position of the prophecy of democracy. More so than george w. Bush or Ronald Reagan or Richard Nixon . He was able to assemblies implement his policy. We could actually push this back to the contract with america. They can actually push it back a little further than that. I think what we are witnessing now is in some ways a kind of apex of a general tenor of our politics for its broke into its core. Donald trump is an exaggerated indication that the rock at the heart of the beltway. Host David Maraniss, you corrupt with what Richard Nixon faced during watergate. Any difference is last eight years . Well, i think it has intensified. Actually, the contract for america seems kind of tame now. Policy is the least important thing now it seems like. Its opposing whatever someone opposes. Richard nixon was impeached and resigned from office because of his unconstitutional actions. President clinton was impeached and saved from being removed from office or for largely Political Community since he was impeached that would argue. So that is where he would start this modern trend. But i think president obama, you add in the extra added issue of race and the way he and his family have been just unbelievably characterized by some opponents is beyond anything thats happened before. Host Michelle Malkin or hugh hewitt yearbook was going through your mind . Guest what is at the crux of really why you despise this man. Host thats the word, despise . Guest i believe so. Ill tell you why. It is so embedded. We have never seen any president and ive never seen him there were state anyone do or say anything about them the way theyve done against barack obama for the time barack obama became president , we heard on the radio, Rush Limbaugh say i want to see them fail. Host but he said he wanted a spouse is failed. Guest afterwards. He went back at all. Ive got the tape of that. On this wonderful platform of cspan, and we have heard people taken off the air for using the. I am not saying everyone who does not like president obamas polished these were about the Affordable Care act where policing, not necessarily about that. There is a strong undercurrent in this country and weve seen it before or hate against someone because he is different is very pervasive. I believe race and politics and i believe its the fact black man is president of the United States. Host at eight years ago, barack obama sworn in as the 44th president. Heres a portion of his inaugural address. The focus on her website, cspan. Org. Today a cd of the challenges we face are real. They are serious and they are many. They will not be met easily find a short span of time. But know this, america, they will be met. [cheers and applause] on this day, week out there because we have chosen hope over fear. Unity of purpose over conflict and discord. On this day, we come to proclaim an end to the petty grievances and false promises of recriminations and wornout dogma is that for far too long have strangled our politics. We remain a young nation. But in the words of scripture, the time has come to set aside childish things. The time has come to reaffirm our injuries. Had to choose a better history, to Carry Forward that precious gift, the noble idea passed on from generation to generation. The godgiven promise that all are equal, all are free and all deserve a chance to pursue their full measure of happiness. [cheers and applause] host David Maraniss comments you hear the words, you cannot muster the echo of what he spoke in boston in 2004 at them later this month the president will deliver an address in chicago basically looking back at his eight years and i wonder if we will hear more of what we heard during his immaculate dress. I will always be a threat as any speech he gives. Even as the world to shift it around him. I was there that day of the first inaugural address and i remember the contrast between the incredible dealings of the crowd. People have never gone to another duration before. Thousands and thousands of africanamericans finally feeling franchise didnt come way and this incredible joy of the crowd. Yes, there was the aspect of this speech that echoes the larger sensibility, but it was also a fairly bleak beach because he was facing a really tough position of the nations economy and he was trained to warn people this to be difficult. I was struck at the difference between that rhetoric and the feelings of the crowd. Host lancer rope and at 2027488200 for those of you in the eastern half of the country. Those of you not in pacific. 2027488201. Three hours the first sunday of every month on cspan2 and death. This month we look at president barack obama, his legacy as he prepares to leave office. Gene from sandy, illinois. Go ahead, please. Hi, i would like to take the conversation in a different direction and talk about why the American People are so frustrated by the election of barack obama and their disappointment in what he has managed to accomplish. I think that after giving this considerable lot has to do with the way we elect our local officials, that we actually need a constitutional amendment to our United States constitution to make sure that we are 50 individual countries instead of 50 united stated, so that we have a uniform way of a lack in our local officials, who by the way of control over what happens in our country. Not the president. Everybody calling in as critical of obama, blames everything on him. But i watch cspan everyday and i watch the congressmen cut job bills and say that we cant have infrastructure bills just to defeat him. Host that would do away with what they were talking about earlier with Alexander Hamilton on the issue of state right. That would give federalism and state level. Caller if we continue in the direction we are going, we are going to become a dictatorship because basically the power isnt the president. The house of representatives and the senate. It is unconstitutional. Ive written about this today because im so frustrated. I am one of these people and 73 years old and im ready to stop voting. I voted since i was old enough to vote. Ive seen the local republican representative in my district prevent another man from running against him by changing the local election laws to increase the number of people that have to sign the petition. He had to finally give up. This is wrong. This is not democratic. Host thank you for the call. Guest our constitution, our wonderful Founding Fathers when they crafted the constitution i dont think they have my social media and we would expand the way we had. That is one thing. The question is how do you do it and will people be ready to change history . I believe we are now at a point and i understand what shes saying about it could or should. We are now at a point where its people we are now looking at personality instead of the issues and its not right. We had a charismatic president with one of the greatest barack obama. Even William Jefferson clinton and thats unfair. Donald jay trump who is a billionaire and who knows how this is the reality tv show, reallife reality tv show. I think we need to start focusing in on issues. But going back to the people, that people can make a difference and i still believe that. I believe that the victim is the key. I dont believe that we should have 50 countries. I dont believe bush that the United States coming together. It all starts at the local level. You have to ignite a fire to make a change that you want to see happen. This event happened in history and the gallant an offensive could see where i will let them deal with it, but we have to be active and engaged to make change for herself. Guest this is a really important point on the part of the caller that sent some of our colleagues there with your view we are no longer a democracy, we are an oligarchy. We have known in response Barack Obamas election particularly in 20 tells them are really historic in that he won the presidency with 30 of white people voting. This is so much reflective of the demographic shift, the deep demographic shift that has begun to have an impact into the extent that its true, some people when in full panic mode that you can actually win without the majority of white people voting. What did we see in response and even before that . A voter i. D. Law, Voter Suppression. Theres a reason why it books away books in terms of voter i. D. Laws. Theres a reason North Carolina books the way it looks at Voter Suppression at texas although it was struck down. In North Carolina and around the country, seeking to, shall we say, pursue theyre own interests youing for got a. M. And how the government there took many of the Motor Vehicle Administration Offices particularly in urban areas, closed them, and now the department of transportation is working with them so they will reopen them and its almost like what happened with voter rights back in the 1960s. Even deeper than just the Voter Suppression and the getting rid of the voting acts act, which is redistricting and realignment. You have states in wisconsin, the legislature is completely republican dominated. And yet more people vote for Democratic Candidates than for republican candidates because of the redistricting. Jerrily map at thing sort do jerri gerrymandering. You quit barack obama, he said the following immigrant. If were on with ourselves well admit there are times when some of us claiming to push for change, lost our way, including, he pointed out the selfdefeating riots of the 1960s. How does that apply . The context of the quit, i was actually in d. C. And i his already listened to that peach and i threw my shoe at the television. He narrating that fit with the neocon position. And rosa parked sitting down in 65, and then i have a dream and then the wheels fall off with the black power moment and theres a moment when you describe the period as people invoking victimization, people trying to reward laziness in the smooth, its insidous and its fact. Think the broader opinion the way we tell the story of american politics opens up space or closed down space for everyday ordinary people. So if you tell a story in which politics is backroom deals, then you get republican operatives and democratic operatives trying to figure out to secure power. If you inform and empower everyday, ordinary people, tell the story of the radicals you get a different picture. David, i wanted to take that and put it to a concrete level in detroit. People conservatives after that the fell aapart after the riot and then the corruption of certain majors. But if youside detroit the seeds of decline were structural and they had to do with housing, with urban renewal, with the news that the suburbs war the noose that the suburbs were. Ing around detroit and being a onecompany up town. Theres a tendency to blame riots and black power and there are structural problems be teeth that. At quote from your book. You quiet tavis miley, in the book, presidency of black and wide, and he said just balls he, barack obama, is our color does not moon he is our kind. That was at tavvs smileys state of the union and it was a split screen. It wasnt tavis smally that said it but he was interviewing reverend al sharptop and thats the same day barack obama announced he was going to run for president of the United States, and it was interesting of that reverend sharp continue said that because the relationship of them flourishinged is close. Theres a loyalty there between the two that wasnt there prior. To reverend al sharpton wanted to make sure when he made that statement, that the black current was covered, and not all not only that but you have to remember, barack obama was an outsider, he ran against bobby rush, and theylike, particularry members of the black caucus. They said its not your time yet. So people didnt know him, and they needed to find out who he was, and now looking back, reverend al sharpton stayed away from making an endorsement in iowa of Hillary Clinton or barack obama and that really played into the relationship that they now both share. And that would have been very he have gone out and said something for hillary would it have been over for a lot of black people. Estster in southfield, michigan negotiating ahead, play. Caller happy new year, and. The goodness for april here on your show. Thank you. Caller she is right on. On so many things, and david mariness i was born and bread in detroit and i was here at the time of the riots and youre right in some ways but youre also wrong. What it is and let go back before those riots and go back even to world world war ii becas a im 79yearold old and im a child of that war. People let barack obama down, people let our democracy down because of lack of civic engagement. The lack of voting. The lack of keeping themselves informed. And maybe because im a child of that second world war, my family always understood about what happened in voting, and i have voted every year every time and i was eligible to vote when i was eligible to vote when was 21 years old, and that was for eisenhower. My father was for him, and my father was from that war. But lets go to this business about what has happened now, and our time about black folk and about black folk not being engaged. They havent been engaged because they havent had the Civic Education and they need to they dont need the book. It doesnt need to come from school. They need to have to understand who theyre voting for. Host estes, if you can stop there, thank you for the call from michigan. I appreciate her comments. I went clear to me what she said that i said was wrong. The about theorieses. She didnt the riots. She didnt say why because it dont know how to respond. So ill just appreciate ore comments and leave it at that. Can you give me the quote about the riots . The last statement i wanted to Say Something about that and go back to what she said. It was basically something about how we do the riots remember when dr. King when dr. King died there wererights around the country and in our own community. It was selfdefeating and i believe thats what he said. Selfdefeating. We were upset. We go into the rich communities and im not saying we should riot but we hurt ourselves. I am from baltimore maryland, freddie gray when there were riots in place is frequent and still drive by, i remember that cs was on fir. People in that community, very low income. They have to go a very Long Distance to find medication now. I know congressman Elijah Cummings lives that that community and someone saw him at the rite aid a couple miles down but that was the impact. Selfdefeating because were upset and because of that, we do have activism. We had black lives matter run for mayor, didnt win, but we need to understand that everyone has a right to express not that way but express and try to change and make a difference, and the up fortunate thing many of us dont feel we have 0 voice. It one to to talk about impact of urban rebellion on the community. It harmeds the community. It does. Its wrong to make the claim that nothing politically follows from that. Wrong to say nothing followed from watt policyfnothing from furyk and at the rebellions across the country after the aassassination dr. King, we saul the ways in which government tried to move in response to that. Understanding that rebellions are the cries of the voiceless, which other kind of political pathways or processesert not available and this is what happened. But i think to render them as simply apolitical or irrational acts, kind of is in some ways to evade what history has taught us. I think part of what i was saying was barack obama was narrowing the range of what constitutes legitimate forms of political dissent. What has happened over the last decade or so even longer than that, is that the nature of american politics has become such so narrow. Walter mondale is a radical today. Can you imagine hearing the tale of two cities from mario como and whether your march organize some ways behind some some closed room. The black radical tradition is much more robust than that. The problem is we dont have a seat at the table. The next administration there is a concern within the black republican community, the seats at the table or in. Reverend blackerrer didnt have a a seat at the table igoing to quote shirley which chisolm. She said if theres no at zito table, bring a folding chair. And thats what thats people are trying too do whip riot. Im justifying at awe because it selfdieting in your own community. But the bottom line is were not at the table. Host send us a tike at booktv, youre making me cry covering our gracious, intelligent president. What will we do now . The caller from colorado. Caller thank you for having me. I want to be real quick and maybe change the topic a little built. I just want to say im my mother is mexican, my father is black. And my grandfather came from mexico. One thing that is really important to me and we need to address is the lottery system that the United States that. My grandfather guest immigration, correct . Caller yes, maam. My grandfather was not illegal mexican. We was brought from the ghetto project and he won the lottery at 13 years old to be in texas. My family was then a migrant worker. I married a cause indication man. Im in caucasian man. Im in the medical felled medical field and im i want to address cultural sensitivity and its important to remember that we as americans were able to come here through the lo lottery system on my grandfathers side, and i just wonder i have to allow people in the medical field and re respect for cultures but mind is not respected. If i show my assertiveness, its posturing and confrontational. So id like to have the panel help me understand how to address these issues, especially in the medical field. And i have two men, two boys of my own, who their culture is not respects and im trying to bring is in full circle in that as an africanamerican boys, they cant wear braids without being stereotyped ump. Host angelina, thank you for the call. Im going to turn to you, april ryan, because you write that is in. Guest assimilation in my new book i talk about that. A lot of voices on assimilation. We talk about assimilate. Im a black woman in a white male dominated town, been here 20 years and its not easy, but one of the pieces that helps me do my job, unapologyic and we hear a lot of in the journalism field we hear in the newsroom and prepredominantly white newsroom they put us on a story about africanamerican and we have had to find about issues in mainstreamers but theyre not forced to do things when it comes to my issue. Aim correct in that assumption. Guest to a certain extent. Guest but its valley we have to without in who we are and walk your truth, but at the same time understand the dynamic of where you and who you are who i am, what i. A nit the panels, the 20 years ive been here, and asking president s questions. When i look at the president of United States and ask him a question, ive talked to the black caucus but i focus on urban america. Host let me ask you about syria and whether thats a stain on the own on presidency. Guest astain on the world, and its a paradoxical stain on the Obama Presidency because you have not just obama but the u. S. Ambassador to the united nations, Samantha Power who built her career on trying to prevent genocide and writing that issue, and yet the United States has not been able to prevent genocide in syria. The murder of thousands and thousands of people. Its much easier to criticize syria than to say what anyone should do host he did say the red line, and syria crossed the red line. Guest absolutely. Im not defending president obama on that statement or whether he should have said it in the first place. Because it just led to hes much more of a flexible person that ever setting up a red line on things. Thats just not his nature. I dont have any profound to say and i dont think anybody does. Its a very sad aspect of the modern world and everything that could go wrong went wrong in syria, you have the situation among the many mistakes that president obama made is is acing where the dominant player is russia. Host month his biggest nemesis on the world stage has been putin put, the russian president. His closest alliances including canadaon Prime Minister trudeau, angela merkel, so what about the world of barack obama and how World Leaders have viewed this his presidencies spa and i think the is generally respected around the world but not necessarily by the leaders. Think his strongest alliance is with angela merkel, and they come out of different political perspectives but found the same place, basically. Which is attempting to be rational and in a traditional sense liberal on immigration, particularly with merkel, and in dealing with the rest of the world, but i think that people yearn for strength in Foreign Policy. Thats a narl natural, huge thats not president obamas strong point. The fact he doesnt always try to exert strength is not necessarily a weakings in but it appears to be. Youre nodding your head. Guest really important to think about how president obama has seen on the International Scene post the bush year. The overreach of george w. Bush and the caution both president obama with regard to these questions to the extent to which he has tried to recoup americas reputation on the interstan stage after the disasters of the bush years, might become an interest way of measuring the relative success or failure of bone obamas Foreign Policy. We look at the particulars, whether its syria, libya, the drone policy, and we know that the exercise of soft power and hard power, driven by some consistent ideological commitments that cut across his administration and bush administration, open him up for criticism. Husband last state of the his last state of the union was a profound, i think, voicing of his understanding of the use of hard power and soft power. At the moment at the beginning of the last state of the union he described americas military as the most powerful in the world. At the end he is talking not use of soft pair and example is cuba. How american soft power can work and in the in between he makes the commend e comment about a civility and language around immigration and the like at the moment and he is chastising donald trump with an eye side there but making the isis raiding houses croat across the border. That speech gives us a an indication of the ideological frame of obama. Guest which is pretty complicated. Host joe from venice, california. Youre next good afternoon, sir. Caller hi. Well, in the many discussions i have heard on programs such as this, ive almost never heard my following point i think that the white part of our nation has gone about as far as it can go in our racial feelings toward blacks. Look at our society. The number of black respected Police Chiefs we have, judges, news anchors, commentators. The number of black politics, now asked for their opinions in the number of interracial couples on the street. One of your callins was such. The issue ive been writing this her hurriedly and im losing some we see a host of science now of how black people are being accepted as equals. Imagine 50 years ago, none of this would be happening. Weve come awfully long way. Still have a long way. Guest we still if a long way to go. We have reached the highest level the white house, you cant get any higher but we still have the lowest of lows and a problem in the middle. Say this. I hear you, but weapon we talk when you say that i think White America has gone as far as we can could be accepting blacks, no you havent. I say this without politics as an africanamerican. When you look at the facts and still see africanamericans disproportionately in almost every category, thats a problem host one of the moseyingant speeches in doug in which he addressed the issue of Race Relations in america, here is thensenator barack obama. Im a son of a black man from kenya, and a White William white woman from kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who see e served in world war ii and grandmother who work an bomber Assembly Line while he is overseesaws. Im lived in one of the worlds poors nexts and gone to the best schools. Inup married to black american mo carry monday her the bloods of slaves and slave owners, an inheritance we give to our daughters. Her ons, nieces, uncles, of every race in three constant continents and as long as i live i will never forget in 0 country on earth is the story is possible. A story that has not made me the most conventional of candidates. But it is a story that has seered into my general nettic makeup the idea that this make is more than the sum of its parts. That out of many we are truly one. Host march 2008 teche National Constitution center during the highlight of the campaign, opposed by Hillary Clinton. Conclude respond . And what you heard from the caller. Guest that speech was really important and a number of ways. Its salvaged his candidacy. I dont think he could have won if he hadnt made that given that speech. Guest really . Guest i think the reverend Jeremiah Wright issue has. The campaign on the. Edge. If had no come couple and struck the balance. Guest his advisers said he wanted wanted to give that speech even earlier and was dissuadessed. It was jeremiah right that propelled him to give the speech guest at the heart of the speech is the way the approached the issue of race and a kind of degree of equivalent in the sense that the equates places on the same level, white resentment and blackeninger, white resentment at the changing nature of society, society is becoming are more equal. Folks ang because because theyre losing jobs to folks who were once locked out. That anger is equateed to people black whose highway chafe been kill by a white Police Officer or a dad who couldnt goal to a drivein 0 cornel west who jumped in pal and everybody got out and they drained the poolful and theres always this lang of eequivalency, whatever you draw that line, becomes very, very difficult to address the deep structure inequality that defines the country. Guest heres one you just said that speech saved his campaign. The politics of it makes sense. And that im not sure it was completely equivalent but i understand the cargo. He was trying to make but he understand the argument but saving the campaign meant he was talking to whites completely. So you have to put into that context. Guest this is why called him in the interpreter in chief. Whenever theres a moment where has talked about race, he rarely talks to black america about question. All in some ways trying to convince white mrs. To no convince are so talk to White America. Guest one quote from James Baldwin here. Host your next to book. Guest one of the most exanother tech things about being blah is in thin can you we constantly have to try to . Are you preaching to the choir or preaching to people not in your choir . Thats a more possesssive look at what he was doing but another perspective. Im going to challenge you, dont think he convinced them because Jeremiah Wright what his kess friend and con confidante and people still talk about it. Guest i think part of what insist on in democracy in black is that until we kind of confront forcibly without all the sweet talk that in this country, theres an animating value, that white People Matter more than other and that belief animates or, arrangements and its evidenced in habit. But until we address that well find ourselves in what jim baldwin,mer is like a monstrous minstrel song, same songs and same jokes. We can do the show in our sleep. Guest do you believe any candidate for president could address that optly and be elected . Guest yes. Guest you do. Guest i have to believe it. Outside otherwise ive allowedded the con transplants to effect my opinion. Host is this write, in question. From the genesis of doing a buck on baldwin to its completion which will be when . How long does it take you to complete a book cincinnati takes a wall. All depends on how the lord moves. Host your book. From idea to publics. Guest first one was 17 years. It took 17 years but i think it came at the right time. We had the first black president , and then this one, the second one, less than a year. Host david, the book on president obama, from idea to publication. Guest my books take my senior larger books take between three and four years. Host why the book on detroit . Guest i was born in detroit. It was signed by a commercial on division that super bowl in 2011 when m~ m m emememwazi driving through the streets and saul sauce during. Host the chrysler commercial. Guest i teared up and i wondered why it was that way. I didnt want to buy a chris her but a wanted to write about the city. Host once in a great city, and ben is next. We have 25 minutes left focusing on the obama legacy threequarters authors, three hours this sunday. Thank youor waiting. Want to point out something voice and that is that a half of awe tech are paid for by medicaid and i thought obama was disengines reduce in thises fors for Affordable Care act and to but all these only the medical plains its would require other people to give up medical care or pay higher premiums. Think he did that because he doesnt have a faith in human beings but if he had been honest with the American Public and sat that in thebes miss mary not been able to get care for cancer, he could gotten plan passed and americans would have accepted it. Host dan, youre teeing up a debate in washington in the year ahead. Guest they enwhats to Affordable Care act, theres no question it neats to be tweaked needed to be tweaked. Meeting in go say he did this knowingly but there are pieces that had to go through they didnt like and theyre saying they have to tweak it. But at the same time, in moving forward, how will it be tweaked . Its not about repealing it and its about defunding it. Who wants to kick people off. The vast majority of people say there are problems but im glad i have self insurance, is covers preexisting conditions. You can foe be discriminated against if you have a condition and do to another insurance company. There are. Com opinion meants that componentses that happen people but it had to be tweaked and well see. Guest the difficulty is that parts the least popular are the parts funding the part that popular. The only way to do that is universal health care which will not happen in the United States but anything below that is go going to complicated and different problems you cant just tweak them. Bet clear our disingenuous other the critique is, some wasnt to single payer, some want the Public Office. This is a plan of the republicans, romney of massachusetts so the idea of republicans being so offended like this, it opinions towels hip potcracy and the manufacture outrange. Host some people said he never used the white house to way he should have. I didnt do it the way clinton or lbj would use the white house, bring his critics down 01600 pennsylvania of now wine and debris them. Did he use his Vice President . Guest well, vicepresident biden was very effective. Much better at hat part oft transaction politics than president obama. Its a valid argument except in terms of result. Bill clinton was a great schmoozer. He didnt get any health care bails passed he lost, obama won. You can critique president obamas personality for not wanting to have drinks with congressmen and nothing strongarming them. Never going to be like that. You cant make somebody be something theyre not going to be. But he so the extent to which he was able to accomplish things, despite that, is rather extraordinary. Host idaho, teresa. Caller yes. Im my son and i are lone democrats in cord coeur dalene idaho, i vote vet for barack obama twice and would have voted a their time and so would my son. In the conversation when talked about the frank dodd act and the bailouts, one thing im never heard point it out and it affect meds 2008, i was diagnosed with Breast Cancer, and emphysema, copd, within a week of each other, i had Idaho Medicaid and my Cancer Treatment stopped. That was the year that whenever you want to kell call it. Obamacare, came in and pretty much has been saving my life ever sin. Last night i went to the er and asked them to get me out before midnight but a my deductible starts tomorrow. I worked for a credit card can i and saw what they used to do to people before the frank dodd act. So theres a lot of good things to protect consumers. Now to high interest rates. In the midst of all this thighed declare bankruptcy to save my childhood home. Because of the Bank Bailouts i dont know if obama did it or the dems. Dont think it was republicans. I got a home loan modification so that i can keep my house. So he did those things for me he didnt do everything the said he wanted to, sometimes i was disappointed but he had to play politics. To get us what he could get us. Host teresa, thank you for sharing your story in a final point. April, david, ed by i pieing reed your ed our president will be the most beloved and said to say the most hated president ever. Host interesting die cot me. Most loved and hated. Guest thats true. I dont know about up to now, of the 44 maybe the 45th 45th might be would give him a run for his money. Host what you hearing from the dahler caller. Guest the heart. The and mammogram. Women have issue width Breast Cancer and prevention and thats another piece of aca, preventive. I heard someone going through real life issues and she is jumping him as someone who helped her but she said city course. Guest i heard real life consequences of policy, which always important to remember, and when people argue that theres no difference between the two parties, you have to remember that for millions of people, policy does make a difference and the two parties have differ policy. Host and giving full attribution to dr. King will barack obama be judged by the color of his citizen or his american president si. Guest its not either or, its both. And i dont think that in this case the color of his skin is just something incidental. I think in terms of american politics and American History. Its much deeper than that. Even though policy is what defines a president , the color of his skin defines this country in a very huge way, i think. Guest i agree with david. Race and politics will always follow him. And he is the first black president out of all of those white faces. He will now go down down in history at one of the nations fathers and a lot of people dont like that and they knew that coming in and they were very insular as to what the allowed in and what kinds of critics they allowed in. Theyre very concerned with how her is perceived and how his legacy will carry on. Guest i hope we reach a point in our history where we can judge his presidency, aproperty from whether he is a the first black president , but theyre linked. He has made history. Think for black america we have to ask ourselves the question, whether or not the fact of we have had a black person in the white house has changed the circumstances of our life . Host well weve other under lifetime. Guest im sure we will but the question is, will that fact change the fundamental king of the most vulnerable in the community is care most about. Guest i say no. Guest that question makes my feel too old. I think the lifetime host afternoon in nashville, tennessee, back to booktv. Caller morning good morning. Id like to say to april that i am a baltimorean, born and raised. Guest you understand. Caller yes. Mostly below north avenue and she understands that demarcation. But. Host for those who have not been to baltimore, or balmer. Guest thats around around the area where the cvss was caught on fire and where the police, the meeting of the police for that night, every night, during that time of riots. Host continue, joan. Caller yes. And just so many things i want to say, but going back to the recent riots, i was there for the earlier riots, but the one thing they did not i watched the news all the time wash that line of was the line of love of those older black men of the community who placed their bodies physically between the protesters and the police. I dont know if you all remember that but in the news media did not cover that, and that was something positive. And thats something that black people seldom get. Theyre seldom any differentiation between0 or among black people. They can say, people from countries that america is at war with, they can bring them into this country and disrep differentiate between the times. All mexicans norred rapists. All people from arab countries are not terrorists but pow dont dethe differentiation between the black people. 99 of black people can be described the same way as whites. Godfearing, hardworking, lawabiding, redblooded americans but you dont hear. That what i would like to see is us black people first all, stop referring to ourselves as blacks. Whats a black . What are the blacks . Whites always its white people. White people. They emphasize that. So, you know, i understand being in the position that black people are in, you kind of acquiesce to the dominant situation. Part of that is for survival. Host joan, thank you. Formerly from baltimore, now nashville. Guest she is absolutely right. Were all one people with just a different mel color. And this is going back to what he said again. We were brought this country were ancestors of those who are brought to country but not afforded the same firstclass status, firstclass living situations at others or and we are still in a situation, even though we are all the same and all focused on our pocketbooks and what affects or communes, we still have issues were many people in the Africanamerican Community are living in substandard homes. The freddie gray situation put a spotlight on blight and the issue of trade and the fact that beth he bethlehem steel was taken out therefore country. Put people were able to go into manufacturing and work. So were like anyone else but we are put in this we when its a black issue it is looked ore. Host david you talk about barack obama i think it was a datsun that had a floorboard explain the story. Guest that was his car in chicago. He took michelle out on their first date in that car, and thats the car that he drove up to harvard as well. Host do you think the presidency changed in how he changed hit open upbrayinging. Guest the presidency has to change anyone eenorm lousily enormously. Its like the athlete have the greatest years. What is the rest of their life it . Has to change enormously and i think he will continue to have the same larger construct of who he is, whether people embrace it all. I dont think that will change. I think on more superficial level his life will be forever changed. Guest hes a millionaire now. Guest yeah. The richest contract in publishing history for his memoir. Host what do think hell earn . I think like 15 to 20 million. Host did he change the presidency . Guest no. Not at all. Guest why . He operated within it. We can take it back to nixon, way in which he tried to given the re caltrans of coming has ha. Her it. Dont thing d he had to leverage it. Because of who he is, and because of the vitriol direct towards him. I think the office has been tarnished. Not because of barack obama but because of the vitriol districted towards him. And and we probably saw this with nixon and then e then clinton and those at the moments use them as points so i dont the changed it for the better. Think because of all the nonsense and ugliness that has been associated with his presence in the white house, think the office itself of the presidency has been diminished. Guest the culture of his the mod concern American Political Culture is so much bigger than president barack ba. He is just reacting to it. Host did he enjoy the presidency. Guest many aspected he did. The found what he wanted. I keep thinking in my heart that this is what he was debt destined to do and i think the felt that destiny, and i believe he enjoyed it. Die believe he video the even video the press . I think he ahead hated the body watch but the governing to help people. Believe he enjoyed that and the pull from what from he knew, going back to aca and talking about mother and remembering how she had to del withmer medical billsle her cancer issues. Also, when we as a Community Organizers enthough he could not call it by name, saying issues of race and they knew is, he still thought he was helping, and i definitely believe that even though it was a situation where he did not like seeing it on a daily bay basis or came up he knew that he felt peace in his heart he added to the conversation and the discourse about issues that are happening in the black community particularly, when it comes to issue of policing that we have been dealing with for men years. Host elizabeth in jover next. Caller id like to area your panels opinion on two subjects and both of these have to do with my opinion that the democrats have been unable to capitalize on two issues, that might have helped to shave support from both obama and me black population. Im an elderly white woman but im old fluff to remember that denzel was robbed of an Academy Award when he became malcolm x. Your topic, in my own world view and like everybody on your panel. I wonder if county the democrats lost control of the election narrative on these two topics number one nicer no dispute that most blacks and democrats expressed infrastructure about the injustice of recent police shooting. And the obvious discrimination that at the core of much of the most differently use of unjustified force. So where was the topic of judicial reform . If we cant rest assured blight october black that overuse of force will be prosecuted. I prom anious that i as am wary of the police as most blacks must feel. This a threat that has to be corrected. The second issue, the media and the democrats have, in my opinion, failed miserably at responding to the frustration and criticism of obama by not reminding and teaching that without congress, this president has been unjustly thwarted his his entire term in office and our people need to know where to place the blame for the lack of action on any of obamas initiatives. The people themselves are at fault for elects others that are against their own interests. Host linda, thank you for to call. To issues, race and congress. Guest well, when it comes to congress, from the time he came in he he would go golfing, trying to with john boehner, trying to work things out and just never happened. And i believe to Say Something long enough, people will believe it. And this man had has been hitting his head against the wall trying to find a way to come to Common Ground and you hear this that he doesnt reach out. Like every other president in the nation he tried to unify both site sides of the aisle and didnt work and the blame needs to placed where we heard, the leadership. We heard Mitch Mcconnell same he wanted a one term. It never changed. And in just look at what happened at the end of his presidency. He could not get merritt garland a dade for any kind of hearing for at the sprem court. There was an obstruction built the Republican Party. They did not want to allow him anymore victories. Its plain and simple. You can same what you want to say but i cover it every day and calling it like i see it. Guest i think i want to challenge that. I dont think a general consensus that policing in relation to black people is unjust. I think the data points are very clear about this, particularly in terms of responses to mike brown, brakeown breakins of responses to freddie gray, eric garland. We sear much more 0 racial divide in terms of how people view policing, and then secondly we can see the way in which the Clinton Campaign and the dnc mobilized around to the i issues just by look Democratic Convention they had the mothers come in and then have Police Chiefs on and si tried to split the divide win the base and appealing to republicans and that takes the second question, quickly, the second point is that its seemed to me that the Clinton Campaign and the democratic the dnc particularly intent a lot of energy trying to convince moderate republicans that they should vote for the democrat. And by doing so, she made a move early on in the campaign where she distanced republicans from donald trump. And gave them the space to exist and run while he was doing what he was doing and basically they went home. Host the callunder talked about media. You work to legacy publication, the washington post. Guest i refuse to do guest it is host my question is how did barack obama embrace social media and more traditional media like the washington post. Guest he prefer anything other than the social media, particularly the printed press. The New York Times and the washington post, we were the last ones to get interviews. He would much rather give interviews to other places than that. And i started in his campaign with a very practical, pragmatic realization that how you reach voter. So he didnt change the presidency but he was the first president to really use social media in effective ways compliedly. Host am any trouble now i used the word legacy and tradition. I with ha few minutes left. Want to ask you to complete the sense in the obama legacy is what . Give you a moment think about it. One more call from oakville, washington. Terry, please be brief. Caller id like to thank president obamas wife for the obamacare and the first lady for the working with healthy food for children in school. Am land owner washington state. I hope President Trump opens up the super rail for the upcoming president to create job us because jobs, people bet wellpaid jobs in the railroad and the regard is the most respect railroad on the planet. Host infrastructure is something that president obama talked about. And now donald trump is talking about. Guest we are nation with crumbling bridges and crumbling roads and that he dealt with that early on home had a stimulus please for that and you look at the racial break down of construction worker, more hispanic than africanamerican and if youre talking about boosting the economy for those groups, but we are nation that is crumbling, and the transportation secretary talks built quite a bit and they were trying to push the highway bill and it just it was blocked. And theres a problem. Guest well whether trump is president follows through on the infrastructure plan he has and how it e effective it is it one thing but in larger sense its a nixon on to china deal. Obama would not have been able to get any transportation bill through through congress and chris host finish the seasons. The obama legacy the white house guest the best example of tragedy of American History. Host because no dish race continues to haunt every speak. Host rain april. Guest the face and substance of america that we dont always want to see. Host because. Guest because when it comes to issues of race we tend to push it away and say, home not going to deal with that, it hi and who he is and to the position he climbed, he put a spotlight just by being there, put a spotlight on the ills in the community. Guest im going to stay from any arguments about policy. Which i you sidewalk a lot of Different Things and just say i think he left a legacy of dignity and intelligence. Host your next book is what. Guest a become about he house on American Activities Committee and various people who encountered one another there. Minimum is on james bald win. Now next book is out. Guest ways. Race and black and white. Guest they want me to write another one and i have a feeling it might be trump. Im covering it. Host have how thought of a tile. Guest black night, black and white,. Host april, edry, david, thank you for being with us on cspan chops booktv in department. We hope youll come back again. Let us no when you publish your next book. Love have to you book. All our programming is once